Chiefs Steve Spagnuolo on Building an Elite Defense, Bribing Andy Reid & Battling Brady | EP 143

27:16It makes it challenging. Yeah, and the quarterbacks are much more dual. All of them can run and move to a certain extent. And what is – do you think it's reverting back a little bit though? This air raid offense spread stuff. Now you're seeing what San Fran and the Shanahan offenses are doing so well. Detroit, Philadelphia obviously has been running the ball. They're still doing the zone reads, but they're finding ways to implement some of these smash-mouth concepts that have kind of fallen out of favor. You know, it's funny. I'm listening like you guys in the offseason to all the talk. Will it convert completely back to the way it was?

27:52I don't think so. I think throwing the football is still so exciting in this league, Defending, throwing the ball is still exciting. But I do think you will see more teams. Maybe the percentages of running will go up a little bit. But not everybody's going to have a Saquon Barkley. Everybody's looking at that right now. But those guys are tough. I guess running backs really are important. Yeah, I guess so, right? In offensive line, right?

28:21Listen, offensive coaches are really smart in this league. So they'll go with anything that's working. I think there'll be a little bit more of a turn toward – I don't think anybody will get away from winning games ultimately with throwing the ball. That's all – and especially when – let's face it, most of the time, the great teams are close games, and close games come down so often. And this is why Pat has been so successful, and you guys in Kansas City. You guys – I mean, how many close games you guys closed out last year that were one score just like – whether it's a block kick or – No, I know.

28:50I mean, it was unbelievable. All 15 of them. I mean, literally. that's that's the truth i mean some of them you can't even explain travis i mean how did that happen who knows i said i don't know how the hell leo got that blog in denver so crazy called it too yeah right do you think some of that um that conversion back is also what defenses have done like defensive now and you guys have done a lot of this playing a little bit more like shell like two safeties back still aggressive though and teams are trying to figure that out that that quarter shift and what's the best way to attack it well and and what you're on to then jason is because we're so past defense oriented that you know running the ball and softening the you know getting you out of that and trying to throw the ball is still going to be the game that's going to happen and i you know listen you guys remember way back when when uh i mean when the four three remember the university of miami had all those stuff warren sap was there And they just sat in that shell, took care of the pass with those guys back there.

29:55But they didn't have to worry about having an extra gap on offense because Warren Sapp and the rest of them. Vince Will Fork, all those guys are caught. Oh, yeah. They were just two gapping and putting guys. So when you – I mean, listen. And, again, I go back. It comes back to players. When you've got players like that, you can play virtually anything and be successful. Now, when you're not quite as stout up there and you're trying to defend the pass and you guess wrong and they run the football and it's a 12, 15-yard run and then you've got to change it up, that's where the game gets a little bit tough.

30:27I think you'll see more of that, though, Jason. I agree with what you're saying. I really do. Yeah. All right. Before we move on from Coach Reed, you got any favorite Andy Reed stories from back in the day or any gold? You can tell us they keep it kicking, but you know I had to at least ask. Well, I will tell you this, Travis, and you'll be able to appreciate this. So now I get the job in 99. They're two years. About the third year, Travis, is when I met Maria, my wife, and you've met Maria. Of course, yes. And you know she's legendary, Jason, for the food that she makes. But here's what – so now I'm going to sit – I think I was like quality control or maybe I had become the safety coach or something.

31:08But I'm trying to climb the ladder, right? So the one way to climb the ladder is to keep the head coach – you know, you keep staying on his good side. So on Friday, on Fridays, when Maria would make the, whether it was banana pudding or the sweet potato pie or whatever, I'd always sneak one of those bad boys, maybe two or three of them. Yeah. Coach is on. That's right. Yeah. Coach, these are for you. These are a whole separate package. Just if you need some fuel to get you through the evening. Hey, Travis, maybe that's why I got the chance to come here. There we go. There we go. it had nothing to do with my coaching ability it had to do with the uh banana pudding that is a fucking golden andy reed story i can't i don't have any good dirt stories or anything no no that was that was golden in itself right there yeah he's i love andy you know that he's the best how did it all start for you in the coaching world how did how did you know you wanted to get into it was it was it always a passion of yours or yeah i'll tell you what uh trav i can go back to uh i remember being in high school now listen you guys know i didn't i didn't grow to be big like you dudes so i i didn't what's gonna be we all wanted to be pro football players or i live i grew up outside of boston so it was either that or hockey that wasn't gonna happen so There we go.

32:33There we go, baby. So I decided that I did want to coach. And I went to Springfield College in Western Massachusetts. It was a big phys ed school. Had pumped out a lot of coaches for that reason. And listen, when I went to college, my goal was to go to college, play Division II football, get a phys ed degree, come back to my high school, teach phys ed for the rest of my life, and coach high school football. That was the – That's a pretty good game. I love that. That was a gig. That's what I was going to do. And then along the way, I got there. And that school had a lot of guys that had graduated and were coaching in college.

33:12And so I got to meet those guys along the way. One of them was at Wake Forest. And this guy was at Boston College. And so that kind of sparked my interest. And so I kind of set my sights on coaching in college football, which I did for 15 years. And, you know, in the back of your mind, you know, look at you. You're hoping that maybe someday you get a break in coaching the NFL. But, you know, then you were looking at a, you know, short white dude from New England. Who else is going to hire that guy to coach football, you know? But luckily, we go back to the story of the connection with Andy that I was able to get a break.

33:44But Trav, it's always my mother was a teacher for 35, 40 years. So that, I think that bug of teaching and helping other people and being able to see somebody go from being non-skilled or, you know, slightly skilled to getting really good because you've helped them, that's kind of always been there. And that's what I enjoy. That's what I really enjoy about it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's awesome. What did your mom teach? She was actually a special needs teacher. Oh, wow. So that takes a little bit of patience. Yeah. English and special needs that she had, and mostly the junior high and elementary school levels.

34:25That's awesome, man. Shout out to Mama Spags. Absolutely. Yeah, why not, right? Yeah, got to, got to. She pointed me in the right direction. Yeah. We all needed that. Everybody needs that. Oh, yeah. We all needed that, yeah. Well, you won your first Super Bowl in 2007 as a DC with the Giants against the undefeated New England Patriots. How crazy was that to go into a game with the Monstars that they had over there on that offensive side as well as the fact that they were going into it as unbeaten throughout the season? Listen, Trav, before that game, and we had a good group of dudes. You know Michael and Strahan.

35:11The best. You guys know all those guys. Stray is the best, man. But I will tell you this. When we started game planning for that game, because they were a juggernaut with the guys that had the most points scored ever in the NFL. I thought if we could hold them under 30 points, that we might have a tip. Wow, that's a goal. That would be a good – and Jason, that's not usually what you say. Right, right, right, right. But I just felt like if we didn't do that, we had no chance at least. And I thought our offense would score a little bit and it kind of went a different way. it became kind of a defensive battle, but they were that good.

35:45And Tom was so deadly. You know how he is. We're talking about cerebral. You do one thing, you know exactly where to go with it. And we had, there were two or three wrinkles. And in every game, we always do that with chains to two or three. They don't always work, Jason. You know, you figure out a way to pick it up. But the two or three key things that we had actually worked in that game and made a huge, huge difference. The guys executed them perfect in critical situations. And I think that kind of built our little – the best thing that happened that year, and really – and I think Mike Strahan and the guys would tell you this, Trout and Jason, that the key to having the confidence to beat them was when we played them in game 16.

36:28They beat us in the final game. They went 16-0. We just kind of – it was a slugfest, and we were right in there. And I remember Justin Tuck walking off the field. I vividly remember this. We were in the end zone at Giants Stadium and him saying, Coach, if we get to play them again, we can get these guys. Like he just walking away, he felt that way that day. Now, we didn't know that, you know, fast forward a month later, we were going to be in there playing the undefeated Patriots. But our guys had that kind of confidence going into it. And when you got the leaders breathing and speaking confidence like that, man, it just oozes into everybody else's like veins.

37:07Yeah, we just got on a roll. Justin Tuck is one of those guys. Do you guys know Justin? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He's the real deal, man. Notre Dame guy, smart. You talk about another cerebral football. So this is what Justin was. So Justin was right now, Trav, I usually use Leo for this and sometimes too tranquil, but he's our – Justin Tuck was our joker. Yeah. You know, Jason, the guy that – Oh, no. No, he had a D-line number on, so you counted him as a D-line. He's never going to be counted as a linebacker. Not going to happen. Or in the D-line. So Thursday is the big third down day, right, Trev?

37:47Jason, I'm sure you've done the same thing. And so we'd put these blitzes in, and he'd be the joker, and I'd put them in all different spots. He would mess everything up on Thursday. And he'd say to me, Coach, I'll be good. And ultimately, by the time Sunday rolled around. He was. He had it. Yeah, he had it. It was awesome. But he was good, too. Doesn't breed the most confidence from the coach in the middle of the week. No, when you walk away and you go, I don't – Should we take this out? Should we take that out? Yeah. He was the best. Those guys, that crew was – that was a special crew, too. Billy was.

38:21If you don't mind me asking, what were the wrinkles that you did to throw Tom or the New England offense off? Just give us one. Just give us one. Okay. The one we did was – and you guys will know this. So, you know, I like to run overload pressures. Yes. So, photo side. Free safety wheel or nickel mic or whatever. Yeah, yeah. You know, and typically the linebacker away from the overload, Jason, would kind of sugar up. And then he, yeah, and he's pulling out. And the minute he pulls out, everybody turns over that way. So, that particular game, I said, look, the first time we run this, Antonio was supposed to come.

38:57I said, Antonio, you don't go as the Mike linebacker. and Kavika Mitchell did what we call a coffee house. He made it look like he was, but he ended up going. And by the time he turned and went, nobody picked him up and we got a sack out of it. So the old coffee house. Yeah, exactly. And we did it early enough. I think where once that happened and it's something you would practice for two weeks, right? I think the guys go, oh, holy shit. That worked. That's great. We're on a roll, right? Let's do the next thing. Let's do the next one. So that helped that it worked on that particular day. They don't always work, like I said, but that was one of them.

39:33And just blitzing that guy once makes us be honest with it. Because we were going to it a lot of times and like, hey, every time this guy mugs up in the A-gap, he bails and they blitz. With the free safeties down over here, they're running the four to a side over here. So you're like trying to play that where it's like, hey, this guy is right up on the ball. If he comes, the back better be pretty stout picking this guy up. Otherwise, it's not going to be good. So you just do that once and then all of a sudden the whole game plan, And now you're chasing that one right from the get-go. Because you're like, hey, nobody – Because it might happen again.

40:02Yeah, it's like, hey, nobody got – I don't think we ran it again and again. I think it was just that one shot. Yeah, but sometimes that's all it takes. Just a good one. And then it's in our heads. Just one. Now we've got to honor that guy. Yeah, yeah. That's right. That's right. That's right. Yep, yep. I love it. Coach, I've got to ask you about your time in Frankfurt. Dude, I think it is such a unique opportunity. and it was cool. It had to be cool to go back to the city and actually play there last year. You were the defensive coordinator for the Frankfurt Galaxy in Germany. And what did you take away from your time in Europe before coming back to coach in the NFL?

40:41Yeah, listen, first of all, because it was from there that Andy called me. I was going to go back the next year in 99, back to Frankfurt. Really? How about this? How about this? You had that much fun? You'd love those schnitzels that much, huh? I was great. Well, here's the thing. I actually, at the time, I think I was living in Toledo, Ohio. I was in Ohio. Oh, yeah. I took a German class to try to learn a little bit more German because I thought I was going back. I learned nothing. I learned Dunker Shun and Venuschnitzel. That's it. What else do you need? What else do you need? You only learn a language if you're over there and you're speaking it.

41:22But listen, I spent two years in NFL Europe, one year in Barcelona, Spain. That was in 92 or 93, and then in 98 in Frankfurt, Germany. And those were two of the funnest, most enjoyable coaching experiences. And one of the reasons, not only being over in Europe and seeing all that, that's kind of cool. You guys have been there, and everybody should go travel abroad because it's five-pick is great. I love it. Yeah. But the other thing was, remember this now. Now, the guys that we were coaching were all guys that might have got cut from an NFL team, right, that were looking for another shot. And so they were so – it was the most motivated, in-tune, embraced group of guys you could have because they were all trying to get somewhere else.

42:08It wasn't like they were chasing money. They were chasing another opportunity to play in football. So I valued that. And to go back, Trav, with you guys in – it was two years ago we went? Yeah, two years ago. To Frankfurt. And it was at that same stadium. You know, the last year I was there, we played in the World Bowl. We got beat by the Rhine Fire, but it was in that stadium. It looked completely different when we went back, Travis, because it was different when I was there. But it was a great experience. And some of the people were still there that did remember that I coached there. That was really cool.

42:38Not ass cool. I love it. I wish that league – I wish it was still – listen, Chase, I'll tell you what. You talk about developing all linemen. Yeah. That league was great for it. You know who was just over there was, it wasn't, it's not NFL Europe anymore, but we just had Joe Thomas on. He was coaching over in Munich last year. And he said a lot. Yeah, he loved it. And in particular, the O-line guys, and you're taking these guys that are new to the game. And it's a little bit different than what it was with NFL Europe, but it's, he still loved it. I went over, when I first got here, Trapp, in 2019, I went over to Italy to do a camp with some coaches from the Chicago Bears.

43:13It was a tie-in with one of the coaches for the Bears, was an Italian guy coaching that league. When you go over there and you work with European people that are into American football, you have the most captive audience. They're dedicated. Oh, they're into it, and they love it. And listen, the level is completely different, but I just think it's great. I wish the NFL Europe would make its way back. But anybody that's ever gone over there to do that, just like Joe Thomas, that have always come away loving it. Yeah. Let me ask you this. Do you think we'll ever see a division over there? There's been talk of it.

43:49Ooh. Maybe one team in London, one team in Germany. One in Milan, one in Dublin. It'd be fun. First of all, I would love that, number one. But the thing would be, all right, so here's the hard part. You can go to, let's use the Dolphins. You go to Miami, you're a free agent, right, Trav? Yeah. You go to the Miami Dolphins for X number dollars. Yeah. Or you could go to London for X number of dollars, which is basically half because London's pretty expensive. I mean, you've got all those dynamics that kind of make it tough, but I sure wish that would just. I think it would be terrific. It makes the game global, right?

44:27Yeah. I think it would be great. And it's starting to feel like from what Joe was telling me from what you're telling me in Germany, like I think the global demand for it is higher than it's ever been. And like when we go over to London, it's insane. I mean, it feels like an all-star game because there's people in jerseys from all over the place. That's true. But it's pretty cool. But I don't know. And the only time those trips are really fun, though, Trav, is when you win. That's right. That's a good point. That's a good point. No good. It's like that sucks. I don't want to do that again. You know?

44:58You got to win. That's how it always works. We've been fortunate. We've won all our international games. We did. We've been fortunate. it let's get to our last segment and get you out of here coach we appreciate your time but we got one last segment called we gotta ask but you don't gotta answer we always end the combos you can tell you can either answer it or you can tell us the kick rocks yeah i can plead uh not guilty or uh there you go plead the fifth plead the fifth i can plead the fifth right i can plead the fifth yeah all right what was your uh initial reaction to justin reeds uh in spags we trust t-shirt oh I was trying to burn those so quick, Travis.

45:38I mean, listen, humbling. So humbling. I love Justin. He's the best. But every time I had to shake my head, that's just hard for me to see. Yeah, I was trying to burn them up. No, man. You know I had to get one of those things. I know. You're the best. Those things were selling like hotcakes, coach. So cool. I don't know about that. So you don't have one yourself? You didn't just sneak one for old memory? I can honestly say I don't have one. That's too funny. I can look at my face. I can look in the mirror and see that scene.

46:11I love it. So you're talking about Maria being a tremendous cook earlier. She's known to cook an Italian dinner for the players that have the best hit every win, and it's called the Cram Award. Is this real? That's real. When did this start? That is real. And who gave her that idea? So we've always had an award. it's been called different things but two years ago, because it's been two seasons now, my wife loves animals and so she gets on these videos and she found Tony Breaker is a comedian he does these voiceovers, Jason of like just imagine two rams, you know, they're doing this, right but he's talking through it they're funny, they're funny as shit and we always play We always play a clip of it before we give the award out.

47:04So Maria is the one that said, you ought to do this. You ought to make the award. This Cram Award. She's the one. And then she offered to, you know, I said, well, we got to give them something. So that's where the pasta came in. But they love, listen, they wait for Saturday mornings, Trav, to see who's got. Chris Jones said to me one time, listen, I don't want a game ball. I can give the game ball to somebody else. I just want to win the Cram Award. Get Maria's pasta. That's Maria's pasta. It's so good. Is it always red? Like, what's Maria working with usually? She'll change it up? Yeah. Nick's not a red sauce guy.

47:39So the fettuccine or the white sauce. You name it, Jason, she can make it. I guarantee you. That's awesome. You want to put your order in? I was about to say, I got to get involved on this now. You're going to jump in on that bad boy. We've done it everywhere we've been. And when we were in New York and we would do it for the defense there, the old lineman, Jason, found a way. Oh, yeah. I heard it later on. For some reason, all the defensive guys weren't getting the banana pudding. Yeah, what's going on here? It was Snee and it was O 'Hara. Yeah, O 'Hara, Sean O 'Hara. All those guys were getting it.

48:20Deal. Yeah. Oh, deal was a big part of it. He was a big part of it. Hey, you've got to feed the old linemen, right, Trav? It doesn't matter what you're on. Come on now. You've got to take care of the old linemen. Just like you knew to take the pies to the head coach, the offensive linemen know where the pies are coming from. They know where they're coming from. They sniff it out. That's right. That's so good. I've got to ask you this, Coach. What was your first impression of Travis Kelsey? Oh, God. Well, the first impression would have been having to defend him when he was playing. And that was like, what a headache.

48:56I'm going to go against this guy. Now, Trev, I think the one game when I was in New York, I think I got fortunate because one of your wideouts didn't play. And we were able – Jason, we put like three guys. Double them. At least doubled. Might have been tripled. Landon Collins plus the linebacker. Exactly, yeah. All over the place. We weren't going to let 87 beat us. But I, and then when I got to meet him here, I mean, listen, I'm not saying this cause you're sitting here, Chad, but you're one of the purest down to earth mega stars that anybody could ever meet. And I just think that's, that's a great quality for both of you guys to be who you are and what you are in this world and to just be regular guys.

49:41I mean, look at, I'm sitting here with the Kelsey brother. That means the most coming for me coach. Here's what I would say is don't you got, don't ever change. Yeah. Because you guys are the real deal. And I know you won't. You got it, Coach. Do you remember the pass that I threw against you back in 2000? That was against the Giants? Oh, my gosh. Man, I remember it like it was yesterday, and now I see it more than ever. Coach, did Landon pick it off? Oh, yeah. Well, I think I more so just threw it right to him. You threw it right to him, yeah. It was the most impressive 80-yard torpedo of an interception, but it was...

50:21He was going back to his Cincinnati days. That's right. Exactly why I was in the... Playing Wildcat. Exactly why I got moved to the tight end. Hey, Travis, have you thrown... Well, you have thrown since, but I mean, that season, the boss, go back to the well. Oh, he did. You got to understand, I went gung-ho. You went rogue. You went rogue, you did. I decided to... I had one read, and it was throw it to Tyreek, and Tyreek looked like he was double-covered, so I looked to the backside. Back across the field? Yeah, back across the field where Coach told me to not. Not to throw it. You don't have a regression, Travis.

50:55You have one guy and then you run the football. And I was just like, man, I'll tell you what, I don't know. I can do it. I'm just going to assess the defense. And as soon as we got into a funky formation and the linebacker at the time, I forget the linebacker at the time, but he immediately checked to cover two to just kind of. I think it was Calvin Shepard. Yes. Yeah, and it was just kind of just to make sure that they were prepared and ready for anything because we were in a weird formation. And sure enough, I get the ball. I see the backside safety kind of close on Tyreek to the point where it kind of felt like I was hoping that would happen.

51:32Yeah. Just so I could go and do my own thing. He wanted to go a little rogue and show everybody he knew what was going on. Coach Reed knows not to put me in that situation ever again. I appreciate you doing that. The funniest part is Alex Smith comes running over to me, and I'm just like, I can't even look Coach Reed in the face. He's like, don't worry about it. It was like a punt. I was like, it was second down. It was second down. Good positivity, Alex. No, you guys got us that day. Let me ask you this. Other thing that Travis is known for is laterals out of nowhere. Do you think that's an underutilized offensive tool?

52:09Is that difficult for defenses to defend? No question. But I'm not sure I'd want anybody other than Travis doing it. Because that's a tricky deal. When I see it, when you're doing it, Travis, I go, huh? Yeah. Everybody's heart-stop for a second. That's all good. That's all good. But no, that's a – like I watch these guys do it in practice all the time. And I think, Travis, because the other guys now know that you're capable of that, they're aware. They get around. I've watched that kind of develop while we've been here. It wasn't always like that. But then once they know that when 87 gets the ball in his hands, he can do something special with it.

52:50And that was the one that – what was the one, Trav, we had that we were offside on? Oh, Baltimore. Oh, not Baltimore. Buffalo. Buffalo. It was Buffalo. It was Buffalo, I think, two years ago. Because that was sweet. That was so good. That was a sweet, sweet play. My God, I felt that it was man-to-man coverage, and I just, I don't know what was, that was a bad, now that was the best throw in my NFL career right there. I threw that one about 30 yards across the field. That was awesome, man. I figured then we were in, we were good. That was beautiful. It's like you're playing with Larry Burns, you're going to have your head on a swivel, be ready for it, right?

53:28And Jason, going back to your point about, you know, now with Travis doing that in practice, because I think I see a little bit of that showing up from other people. Detroit did it a few times this year. Yeah. Since we do it in practice, that will help us defend it if it gets done against us, which I think is good. Yeah. There you go. As someone that has done it, is throwing an NFL challenge flag fun? Because it just looks like it's got to be a blast, right? Or running down and calling a timeout when you're not supposed to, like I messed up doing last year. I'll tell you this, because I was a head coach for three years.

54:05That's a pressure-packed, tough thing to do and to put on. I mean, listen, you've got to trust the person you've got upstairs, right? If you can't see it, you've got to feel good. Because nobody really wants to throw that thing. And have it get over to him. And every wide receiver is going to come over to you and tell you that they caught the ball. Absolutely. Now, I had that happen when I was a head coach. Come running over. Now, I think it was my first year as a head coach, a rookie head coach. But if he's saying he caught it, he must have caught it. So his flag goes out, it sure as shit, incomplete.

54:46Incomplete. But they all want to say that. Thanks for the tip. But you know what, Travis? There are. Listen, I'm sure Coach Reed does this with you. There are certain guys, I'm sure, on his offense that he trusts, that if they say, I caught that, and he didn't see it or they didn't see it, then I'll bet you he's throwing it because he just believes in, you know, somebody's not saying it just to say it. And vice versa. I promise you, I'm not going to be that guy that tells Coach Reed, I caught the ball and he has to wait. If you know you didn't. If it's a question, I'm just going to be like, Coach, I'm not going to lie.

55:17I have no idea. You're going to have to go to somebody else on this. Yeah. You're going to have to ask Frase up there. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a tricky deal. Do you have a favorite Super Bowl win of your four? Well, listen, let's put it this way. So back when we won in 07, and that was a great Super Bowl win. So it's the first. You know what I prayed? That that wouldn't be the most special moment in the NFL. And fortunately for me, other ones came. Because if that was the peak, I mean, at the time I was 47 years old, so I had a little bit more time in the league. But every time you win one, that one at that time, right, Trav?

56:03Oh, yeah. That's the special one. I mean, but they all kind of rest on their own. Yeah, they have their own place for sure. I'm with you on that. I will tell you this, Jason. The one when we beat the Eagles a couple years back. I know. I will tell you this, Chase. I still was not happy because you guys scored too many points. You know how I am, Travis. It's about not giving up points. So that kind of ate at me, even though we won the game. You bowed up when it mattered, though. Well, yeah. But thank God our offense scored as many points as they did. No doubt. Man alive. We've had this conversation before.

56:43This is hotly debated on the Internet. As a defensive coordinator, do you think the average person could get one yard in the NFL?

56:55Just put somebody out there? Put somebody out there running back. Can they get a yard? Take somebody out of the front row and just throw them in there and see. And our guys, for real, put guys on there. Oh, yeah. Some legitimate games. No, I don't think that. our guys are too good too big too fast too strong i mean come on you gotta know how to set up a block you gotta know how to like there's so many it's yeah it's not as easy as these guys are making it do you guys remember the show didn't they have pros versus joe's oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah you guys ought to be on that jesse armstead you guys know who jesse armstead He was a linebacker in this league, real good friend of mine.

57:39He's great. He's a University of Miami guy. He was on – I got the clip somewhere because when Jesse was with us in New York, I pulled it out. But he was on Pros vs. Jones. And this guy came out. I don't know who the dude was. He was in Jesse's face. I'm going to tell you what, man. Jesse near killed him. Yeah. One shot. Near killed him. And I was like, holy crap. I thought that was a funny show. That was a Pros vs. Jones. Yeah. I love it. No, that show was one of my favorites, man. It's hard for guys to do that and, you know, I don't know, come back to play in the NFL. But that show was a blast.

58:16Hopefully they can remake that thing. Yeah, I thought it was. I guess it went away. I haven't seen it in a while. Yeah, I haven't seen it either. Who was the toughest player you ever had to game plan for in your career? Well, I mean, listen, Tom jumps out there. I was about to say, yeah. Yeah, because he was Tom Brady, and we had some pretty good battles. But I will say this, these quarterbacks nowadays that run and pass, and Travis, it seems like we see them every week. Do you know what I mean? To me, they're the – so if you've got the quarterback that's smart and intelligent, can get you in and out of a bad play or a good one, that can throw the football and that can run it, and they're in this league.

58:59Yeah, sadly. They seem to be more and more. To me, that is simply the toughest challenge. You can double a wide out. I mean, listen, if it's the running back and you want to overcommit, you can take away a running back for certain periods. But when the quarterback can do all of that. That's what I always felt. And listen, I think Saquon deserves all the credit he can get. But I've said this multiple times. When you have a running quarterback, it forces the defense to play it honest. They can't cheat to get those numbers right. No question. Where are you going to give at? You got to be in some place where we're going to have leverage.

59:36And that has opened up so much for the Eagles and my time there. And it's the same thing. It's happened across the league with Lamar. It's even Josh Allen. Like all these guys. Yeah, they're all doing it. Patrick does it. Listen, when you third down to me, I love third down. We take a lot of pride in third down. And to me, when you can win third down, You've got a pretty good chance of keeping the points low. When you win third down on offense, you're going to score points. And when you add to defending on third down that the quarterback can pick it up with his legs for seven or eight, that makes it really hard.

1:00:12Because there's certain things you can't do and open up a lane for Josh Allen to take off and get eight. Or, you know, Jalen did it in the Super Bowl. I thought we had really good coverage. You get the perfect coverage, but he finds a pass rush lane, and boom, he's a first out because he gets it with his legs. Those are the challenging guys. Well, we always ask everybody that's in the NFL this question. What was your welcome to the NFL moment? Ooh, welcome to the NFL moment. Okay, you ready for this one? Yeah. I'm in Philadelphia as the quality control coach, the first year in 1999. We're in our first OTAs.

1:00:49Maybe it's the fourth, fifth, or sixth practice, whatever. but I'm the guy in charge of bringing the book out that has the cards, you know, so you could stand up there and show the offense what to do, right? Well, at the time, in Philadelphia at the time, Jason, we were in Veterans Stadium. The vet. And our offices and locker room was in the vet, but our practice fields, you had to drive or walk across the parking lot. So it was a quarter of a mile. And then the fields were out there and there was a little bubble there. Well, on this particular day, the quality control coach is supposed to have the book.

1:01:25When the whistle, the horn goes and we're going to, now we need the cut. I forgot the book. Oh, no. I'm in a flat-out panic. Oh, no. Because the book's all the way in the vet over there. And listen, and I remember it to this day. Jim Johnson was terrific. He's like, no big deal. He walked over to the quarterback coach and said, listen, give us a little bit of this. Give us a little bit of that. You know, he ran 10 plays, and then the offense goes now, right, Trav? They were up. So at that time, I was sprinting, you know, to the parking lot to go get that book, and I got back before the next period began.

1:02:01But that was what I thought my NFL career was done. That's amazing. I would have been in pure panic. I'm panicking right now just thinking about being in my situation. I thought I had ruined the whole thing, but that one just kind of sticks out because it was early, but it was great. That's incredible, Coach. 92 % as Coach Spags baby you guys are the best man thank you so much for the time the stories that was awesome coach I appreciate you guys asking me to do it I really do when I was your guys age I was dreaming about being on the Kelsey Brothers show

1:02:38that's too good you're the best coach I always wanted to be on the Kelsey Brothers show a dream come true for all of us big guy. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to go up right now and take another hour or two, Jason, to figure out how to stop whatever Coach Reed and Travis and Patrick are. They're drawing shit in the dirt trying to beat us in the OTA. I love it. I love it. You guys are the best, man. Alrighty, that wraps up another episode of New Heights. Make sure you're subscribed on YouTube to the New Heights channel. Follow New Heights on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:03:10You can listen to new episodes of New Heights early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Once again, New Heights is a Wondery Show produced by Wave Sports and Entertainment and brought to you by Zillow. Download this app today. Follow the show on all social media at New Heights Show with 1S. Thank you to our production and crew always making us look good and shout out to Spags. Can't wait to run it up with you again this year, man. Had so much fun with that one. 92 %ers, appreciate you guys tuning in. Hopefully you guys enjoyed this Spags episode.

1:03:44Peace! Thank you, everyone.