Joe Thomas on Skipping The Draft, Being The NFL's Iron Man & Reviewing Real Life “Quidditch” | EP 136

29:49You troll for Walla. You troll for Steelers. It's not as much fun. You're going for trophy fish, big fish. You got to troll. I hate trolling if I'm being honest. I've only done it one time. It's not my style. I like feeling it. I remember watching your draft day highlights because obviously we were both Cleveland fans. We had the third pick. We're all geared up. Who are we going to take? Everybody knew we were going to go after you. There was all these highlights of not only is he strong, but he's out here on a receiver screen kicking out a court like there was athleticism showed yeah what is your prototypical lineman that you think of like if you're evaluating guys coming out of college what is the like the tackle what are the traits that you think every like a premier tackle should have well it was interesting because like the late 90s to me was like the golden era of offensive tackles like Jonathan Ogden, Walter Jones.

30:43Like, um, there was a Willie Rove. There was such a big group of enormous human beings that were three 53 60. And they were great athletes. They were ballerina on their feet. Um, and nobody got through them and they were great run blockers. And I always kind of saw myself as an undersized tackle. Um, great athlete. I could move, but the thing that I had to learn the most when I got to the NFL was how to stop the bull rush. Right. Cause you've got guys like demarcus wears screaming off the edge terrell sugg screaming off the edge james harrison they're trying to run you over right especially as a rookie like they want to see if you can have any lead in your ass and you can stop the bull rush right and so i got a lot of that early on in my career and it took a little while to figure out how to react see the bull rush to sit quick but also to be light enough where you could react to that second move um but to me if I'm looking at like today's NFL, I'm like Trent Williams is like the prototypical, like the best.

31:38If I could look and have the athleticism and the strength and power of Trent Williams, that'd be perfect. Like 325, but still running that 4-8, still running that 4-3 pro agility. Like, oh my gosh. To me, that is exactly what you want in a tackle. But you're seeing a lot smaller tackles nowadays than when I first got in the NFL. I think because it's much more of an open game right there's there's not as much of a focus on can you grind people out in the run game let's talk about a little bit of what you're doing in uh in green bay for the uh for the browns you're you're announcing the browns second round pick that's right i'm pumped you know have you have you kind of stayed around the organization you mentioned you were in germany last year but have you kind of stayed around the organization in terms of uh i don't know just kind of keeping the um keeping the relationships and and and getting around cleveland when you can yeah so So even though Kevin Stefanski is a coach that I never played for, I have a really good relationship with a lot of the coaching staff.

32:35Andrew Berry, the GM, he was actually an assistant GM when I was there. So a little relationship there and obviously relationship with the Haslams and a lot of the people that are still there in the organization. And when I retired, I was like, you know what? It would be really hard to transition to a post career without having football in my life, without having the Cleveland Browns in my life. And so they were really lucky. Sorry. I was really lucky. that they were willing to open up a space on the media side for me. So I do their preseason games. I do a radio show during the week with them after their games.

33:09And then throughout the season, I just do like fun content with them, right? Which is just fun more than anything, just staying plugged in and going out there for a week in training camp every year, which gives me the opportunity to be able to do a little bit of that media stuff, but also get in there, watch practice, meet the guys, maybe give some coaching points to a few of the players and you know try to just give some of that wisdom that I've learned all throughout those years to the guys that you know I really want to have that success throughout their career you gotta pass it along man was there anybody uh when you came into the league that was like the one giving that wisdom whether they were on the team or just uh kind of a phone a friend type deal I was really lucky because when I was a rookie in Cleveland a lot of the linemen were older guys and uh you know one of the guys that really really helped me was Hank Fraley.

33:56He was our center. Yeah. Donuts. If you're an old, sorry, honey buns, winners from the Packers. Yeah. Honey buns. That was him. Um, and he was so helpful, right? Because he was really, really smart. He understood technique. He played with Trey Thomas and John Runyon and in Philly. And, uh, those guys are two all pro pro bowl tackles that, um, he learned a lot from, but he was also super smart, like super cerebral. And so he helped me see the big picture because that's what you have to do as a center. And when you come in as a tackle, especially a rookie, like I'm just trying to figure out who the fuck I'm supposed to block.

34:32I'm not worried about everybody else, but understanding through his eyes, when you see the big picture, it makes you the puzzle that you're trying to put together on every play. It makes it so much easier. So even though I don't know exactly what I'm supposed to do, like I can use deductive reasoning. If I see the big picture to be able to figure out, okay, how does this work together right and it just makes your brain work faster when you're reacting on the field context clues yep i remember when hank went in there when he was in cleveland who was the center so he came in the starter got her was it feign was it la charles bentley i think but la charles with a huge free agent signing right all pro best center in the league and he comes into cleveland first walk through the first like first thing of uh training camp and he blows out his patellar tendon and never played another down a football game just a terrible story Damn.

35:20And he was a hometown hero because he went to St. Ignatius. He was from the Cleveland area. He had come back. But, yeah, Hank played pretty dang good, I thought. As somebody who didn't really know much about the game at the time, he stood out to me. What was it like getting drafted to the Cleveland Browns, man? Did you know anything about the city? What were the first places you went in the city? I'm so curious on everybody's like first introduction to Cleveland. Tell us about it. Yeah. So with three Cleveland guys here, this is easy to pump the tires of the Cleveland area. But man, I was so happy, dude.

36:02Let's go. Because one, my dad's side is all from the Toledo area. So I used to come to Toledo every summer and we'd go out there for the family reunion. We'd see all my dad's side of the family and we'd go fishing on Lake Erie. And, you know, obviously fishing a big part of my life. So being drafted and being able to live right on Lake Erie and go fishing in my free time, I was so pumped. And then I think also for me at that time, it was really important for me to stay in the Midwest. I was really interested because I think that, you know, East Coast fans are incredible. There's a lot of them, right?

36:34They're super passionate. But I think there's something about like throughout the Rust Belt in the Midwest, like that's all they got, right, is their team. And they just love it, and they just absorb every single little thing, little detail that comes out of there. And they're a ride or die no matter what happens. And I knew that's how the Browns fans were. And I had known a little bit about their history because we had a guy on the Badgers with me, Dontez Sanders, who's a Cleveland guy. Oh, yeah. I think he's a Bedford guy. Yeah, he is. Bedford, wow. Yeah, he's back there coaching now somewhere.

37:04But he was a huge Browns fan, so he'd always turn the Browns games on in the locker room in college. And so I knew that, you know, they had this incredibly robust, proud history of championships with Jim Brown and Otto Graham and all these guys. And since the Super Bowl era, they haven't won a Super Bowl. I haven't even been there. And then since they came back in ninety nine, they've been kind of poopy. And so for me, it was understatement. Yeah. I've always, you know, enjoyed like building something from nothing. Right. I take a lot of pride and really just sinking my teeth into something and being part of like, let's build this from from nothing, from the ashes and make these champions.

37:42And we didn't do that.

37:47But when I got drafted, I was just full bore ahead thinking, man, this is great. This is exactly where I want to be. It's in front of the fans that appreciate offensive line play. You know, they're not booing me because you drafted a tackle, number three overall. And just being able to live in Cleveland amongst people that I understood, like it was just a perfect fit for me. Why didn't they do that? What do you think has been going wrong in Cleveland? Not as of late, I guess. Let's just talk about your career. Like you guys are close. You guys had some great offensive lines during your time in Cleveland.

38:19Yeah. Never played in a postseason game. Like what was that process like playing? I mean, you played on a winless team in Cleveland. I can't even imagine that. Travis hasn't had one losing season. Like you were talking to the most lucky fucking guy on the planet. One head coach. I mean, anyway, so, yeah, I don't know. What was that like? We're very jealous here, trust me. Trust me. Talking to guys with multiple Super Bowl rings on the other side, I'm very jealous. But, you know, it was tough. I mean, there's no easy way to put it. Losing in the NFL is so hard. And I think the Haslams took over in, I don't know, 2014, 2013, somewhere in there.

39:02And, you know, in 2016, 17, that was the two years we went 1-15 and 0-16. And I think their philosophy at that point was like, hey, guys, we don't have a team that's good enough to win right now. So we're going to trade back. We're going to collect draft capital. We're going to collect salary cap space. And then we're going to get a bunch of young talent. We're going to let them play together and kind of go through the challenges and the difficulties that when you have a young team, you deal with. But then year three, we're going to be a lot better and we're going to have all the salary cap space to spend on free agents.

39:38We're going to have these draft picks. And I don't think they fully understand or at the time understood how painful it is to lose in the NFL. Right. You only get one chance every week. and how you feel that whole week is 100 related to whether you won or lost when you lose you feel sick the whole week and in cleveland you guys know it everybody in town feels sick that whole week when you lose it is so painful it is so miserable and to go one in 15 and then go oh it's 16 well you can imagine it was not a lot of uh sunshines and rainbows in northeast ohio and certainly not in my house there in westlake lab it just sucked like you hated going to work it's the worst fucking day the fans booed you they you know they still showed up because it's cleveland but they were there to boo you not to cheer you yeah damn man one of the hardest things to to kind of weather is is how many quarterbacks you guys went through and obviously the notorious uh jersey of like long listed names that's that could how many of them could you name do you think very few I'm trying to remember very few of them.

40:48Not exactly the greatest memory ever is all the different quarterbacks. I think I played for like 20 and 11 years. Well, who are your – give us your top five. Who do you play with? Yeah, so my rookie season, we were actually 10 and 6. It was my only winning season. So, Travis, let that sink in. Oh, I love it. One winning season in 11 years. Derek Anderson was our quarterback. He didn't even start the season. We had Charlie Fry was the starter week one. Yes. I should have just retired after week one because going into that game, Charlie Fry was our starter. He was also the captain and he was the hometown hero.

41:25We play the Steelers at home. My first NFL game going against James Harrison. It will be in the Hall of Fame soon. And that was tough enough. But we were getting our ass kicked. He got sacked. Charlie did like six times in the first half. At halftime, they benched him. OK, Derek Anderson comes in, doesn't do much better. Monday after the game mind you this was our starting quarterback and our captain and I came from Wisconsin where we had a lot of success and you know if if you have a quarterback and he's your captain like he's your dude like that's your ride or die yeah he's your ride or die like you would do anything for that guy and you're spending all off season trying to build camaraderie and relationships and see the same things that he does and on Monday they traded him to the Seattle Seahawks for like a six round pick.

42:08So I was like, what the fuck is this NFL stuff? Like our starting quarterback, who was our captain just got traded and benched in the first two days.

42:21It's aggressive. It's an aggressive move. Pretty aggressive. Yeah. You guys ended up going to get another quarterback that, that following year and Brady Quinn though, right? Brady was actually in my draft class. So, um, I got drafted third by Cleveland and, um, a lot of people in cleveland because he was a columbus guy you know but the other hometown ish guy grew up a brown sand love bernie kosar so a lot of people thought they would draft brady third well he slid in the draft um and then they traded back up i think with the cowboys to draft him like in the 20s so we came in together and he had a couple years as a starter like your two two and three of my he was the most jacked quarterback i had ever seen that was probably what held him back Like his arms were bigger than Jason's over there.

43:03I'm not sure if that's even possible, but kind of hard to throw when you got pipes like that, bro. Man, he was fun to watch. I remember that was the first like college game I ever saw was Brady Quinn versus, oh, it was Pittsburgh. It was Notre Dame, Pittsburgh. I forget the last, Palco. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Tyler Palco. Yeah. Shout out to Casey. Either way, man, Brady was a stud. You played, fuck, man. And you played with a lot of fucking QBs, man. Remarkable, to be honest with you. Yeah. And still had the Hall of Fame career you did. Did it ever get to the point where you just stopped introducing yourself to quarterbacks when they walked in?

43:42Well, I did have one time in my career. It was like, I don't know, year five or six. Another spoiler alert, we weren't very good. I think we were four and 12 that year, but we were playing the Steelers the very last game of the season. It's in Pittsburgh, right? And, of course, you hate Pittsburgh. You want to fuck them up even though, you know, we're not going to the playoffs and they are. And so it was actually kind of a close game down the stretch at the time. Thad Lewis was our starting quarterback. So there's another one I remember. The great, I should say, proper introduction. The great Thad Lewis was our quarterback.

44:14And it was like a 6-10, 6-14 game. Either way, it was like a one-score game in the fourth quarter. Typical AFC North game. It was a slugfest, you know, December 31st. Holy shit. you know i got my long underwear on and my the fur and my helmet and i'm like holy cow we may actually win this game like we're driving down the field it's in the fourth quarter and uh we're just getting into the heinz red zone you know we're going towards the river there and uh the old heinz field um i don't know what the fuck they call it now but it's not heinz field it's called acrashur it's still heinz field to me something i can't say but it's heinz field for me yeah so we're going there going in the river and i'm like damn we can fucking win this thing and um my left guard who is a backup he uh as you'll give some appreciation it was his first like couple games as a starter and we have just a two jet protection just super basic like we're sliding left like this is the first protection you install in your playbook no doubt and alex max my center he says lion which our call then was like hey dipshit even if you didn't hear lion like two jet we're going that way bro find the mic right right right right so what does he do he goes to the right and so they're playing a three-fourth at the time the opposite of a lion okay opposite of a lion opposite of a two jet like this is not possible so he goes to the right and uh james harrison's at outside linebacker so i'm sliding out to him and um i think it was maybe brett kiesel was playing the end or four technique i can't remember for sure but um he's on block now right because left guard that's your dude you're kicking the other way left guard goes the wrong way yep goes the wrong way so he steamrolls thad and you know detaches his head from his body so that's laying there that's already our third string quarterback all of a sudden the huddle we're like damn this is not good because we actually don't know who the next guy in is right like that week that we had signed a guy to be the backup emergency quarterback but i didn't know who he was right so we looked at the sideline of course this guy's like panicking he's like you know trying to warm his shoulder up get a couple throws in and the trainers are taking their time on the field you know because the quarterback's down but they don't want to hurry up because we got to get this other guy like up to speed and warmed up a little bit it's a cold day in pittsburgh so he trots out on the field after they get thad lewis's lifeless body off the field he comes into the huddle and it's still a tv timeout and i look around the huddle i can see in everybody's eyes like nobody knows who this fucking is and i can feel the tension i can't It's going to be exciting.

46:43I guarantee this will be a sack. Fucking blaming me. The guys watching in Japan are thinking that the bozo left tackle doesn't know the staff count. But meanwhile, it's a fucking quarterback. But I can't say that. As a captain, I'm like, okay, I got to do something here, right? There's a lot of tension being built here, and it's just rising as this timeout keeps going on. And so I was like, all right, I got to say something funny. So I'm like, hey, nice to meet you. I'm Joe Thomas. I'm your left tackle. let's go down the field and get a fucking score and win this game you know and everybody laughed and i learned at that moment his name was josh johnson he ended up playing like a long time he's still still probably playing somewhere i think he played for 14 teams um but anyways uh next play it was third down and i think he threw an incompletion and we lost the game but in my mind that speech led us to victory but nothing else in a parallel universe that worked out perfectly absolutely when i write my biography and they do the movie like we go down and score and win the game and like somehow like maybe we have a parade because we beat pittsburgh for the first time but uh but that didn't happen but either way i got a fun story out of it and i learned uh who josh johnson was yeah shout out to josh johnson josh thank you for coming in for one play you played against some absolute monsters on defense in your time in the afc north who are the guys that were either like you're welcome to the nfl moment or like just like you're playing them in their prime and you think of as some of the best defensive players in the NFL from that time yeah so when I was a rookie the other three teams in the AFC North it was I was going against Justin Smith who I think was like one of the first dudes ever to be named first team all pro at two positions in the same season because he was playing in the three in San Francisco at the time.

48:33And he got named as an all-pro defensive tackle and DN, you know, because he played that 4-4-I. So, you know, he got most from everybody. And Nichol, he's a D-tackle, and Bates, he's a DN. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was going against him. So that was the second game of my career. The first game of my career was James Harrison. I was like, okay. And then the third guy will be future Hall of Famer Terrell Suggs. So within the division, I was playing against, like, three Hall of Famers potentially. I don't know if Justin will make it. But like the other two guys for sure. And it was not it was not pretty.

49:04But, you know, you better buckle up your chin strap like and get your shit right, rookie, because there's no easy days here in the AFC North. I'm glad you brought up, Justin, because that was one of the first games I played my rookie year, but he was in San Fran. And I had never really heard like he was like high pick for Cincinnati. And for some reason, he didn't have like a big name around him. And we're getting ready to play the 49ers when they had that front where it was like they had him. They had Ray McDonald. They had Navarro Bowman, Patrick Willis. Alden Smith on the edge. He was a monster.

49:34They were unreal. And this dude is bull rushing every snap. Like, you know, how do you even have the endurance to do that? Because typically like a bull rusher, all right, I'll stop it. I'll get that like once or twice. I'll get like a real good one from this guy. The rest of the game, we're going to be playing a different type of game. It was every, I'm like, this dude is amazing. This guy's the best player I've ever seen in my life. I don't know how we're going to block this guy. And we didn't. Yeah. He played every snap as a D-tackle D-end. Like, he never came off the field. Like, he's as much of an Ironman as anybody in the NFL.

50:07And we always said, like, if there was a train wreck and 200 people were involved, like, 199 would die and Justin Smith is going to dust himself off and walk away and get a Budweiser at the bar down the street. He was just that old school. Like, he had an Anweiser Bush tattoo on his arm. He was just an old-school country boy. All he knew was just playing ball. Gosh, he was good. That's good shit. I mean, obviously, Terrell Suggs, the biggest head I've ever seen, I think, on a defensive end. Came through Kansas City and catapulted us into the Super Bowl, man. There you go. Sizzle was – I was not trying to fucking be in bad protection against him.

50:47No, thanks. Some of those old-school dudes like Harrison and Suggs, I mean, don't get me wrong, it's not like they were ever out of their prime. They weren't good until they stopped playing. But, man, some of those dudes could just literally pick me up and move me over. Just like, excuse me, little guy. What was your strategy to stop James Harrison's dip and rip? It was like the most unstoppable move I think I've ever seen anybody have where he would just bend real low, and then he had the biggest biceps in the world that he'd just lift up on. How do you stop that move? Jason, you were doing that just to show off the guns, baby.

51:21I love that. You get an O-lineman on. He's going to humble you real quick. We keep each other on. That was awesome. I loved it. I think that one of the things that really helped me as a lineman, like I wasn't as big as a lot of guys, but like I took a different game plan and strategy on how I block every single person I went against. And even the same guys from like year to year, I would maybe attack them differently. Right. Because I knew that in order for me to maintain the upper hand, I had to be different than what they saw in film, different than what they practiced for. So with James, the big key on that dip and rip was like you had to keep space.

51:54Right. Because the only thing that James really didn't have. Right. He was super powerful. He was very short and squatty, which allowed him to get under your pads if you let him get into your body. And he was really quick, too, but he didn't have length, didn't have that length. So I knew that that was my advantage. So I just was really, really super conscious of picking my spot on his shoulder pads or on his bicep to be able to hit that spot and extend and keep him away from my body. because the rip only works as if he's in your body and he's able to get that arm kind of under your armpit. Exactly.

52:27I mean, it makes so much sense. And I've always thought about it similar. It's almost like you're a boxer. Like when you're a shorter boxer, you want to get into the body. When you have the length advantage, use that advantage and keep that guy away from you. And I've always drawn that comparison. I was always the undersized guy. So I was, let me get in this body. All I want to do is get in the body and grab these tits. Nothing changed from me. I made a career for me. Yeah, a lot easier to do that inside than on the edge. But anyways, when you were blocking a defensive end or an edge rusher, what were the things that you struggled with most?

53:00What was like the combinations that gave you the most difficulty in trying to defend, if that is a sensible question? Yeah, yeah, I think we'll go with it. I'll try to make some sense out of that. Please, please. Make a chicken salad here. Here we go. So what I found really hard was if a guy tried to break down your feet and then tried to beat you with power. So, for instance, if you get a guy who's wide, right? Because everything's about angles when you get on the outside. So you've got a wide rusher, right? Yeah. If they just try to beat you around the edge with speed, like, I'll be able to keep up with them and push them past the quarterback.

53:37No problem. That's what I wanted them to do, right? Sure. They're already further away, and now they're just trying to outrun me. And in a foot race, I can go backwards pretty fucking fast. What I struggled with though is if they were wide, but they rushed from that wide rush position straight at my inside shoulder. Because now what that does, it doesn't allow me to kick back. Because my advantage was like, I know the snap count and my first two kicks are going to be really fast and long. So I can get depth. And then now when I get to that spot, now the quarterback eventually is going to get to his spot.

54:06And then now they got to beat me and they've already wasted a second and a half to get to this spot. But if they rush right at my inside shoulder, I can't kick deep because otherwise he just keeps running on a straight line and beats me to the inside. So it made me stop my feet. So I basically would only get one kick, stop my feet. And as he's getting closer to me, get the head and shoulders. So that kind of usually would break your hands down and makes you drop your hips, your center of gravity. And then when that happened, now he's basically on my same level. And now if he decides to run around me to the outside, he's faster than me.

54:41He's short in the edge. He's short in the edge. He's got a better angle to beat you around to the outside. And it's really hard for a lineman to go from basically being in a static position, in a static spot, to all of a sudden accelerating really quickly and trying to pick up to a guy that's running already full speed. Because if you imagine a defensive end, he's running full speed. Now he's just got to change the angle that he's running full speed on where my feet are stopped. I am in one position and now I got to rapidly accelerate to get to the speed that he's going as he's already running forward and I'm running backwards.

55:13And so it was really, really hard when guys would do that, because also if they try to give you the head and shoulders and then now they think like they're going to go outside, you're trying to accelerate backwards. Now they can go beat you back to the inside. Or if you get on your heels, they can just run you over by just steamrolling you. And they've got a lot of momentum built up from being wide and starting to run really fast and really powerfully right at you. You're such a technician, man. God, just to be able to hear you talk about these kind of things. It's awesome. And the fact that you approached each game, each player differently, man, it's fascinating stuff, dog.

55:46Appreciate it, man. Yeah, I love it because I feel like a lot of – It's a good series. A lot of – I feel like it's like Kevin Green, speed to power, get the tackle moving back and then go through him, get him off his – like get him moving backwards and retreating. This is like the tilted guy who's running right at you where you can't go back, shortens that edge. The shush-shush, I hate to – like, I don't want to see this. I don't want to see all that. I don't want to see all that. You love a good shush-shush call. Dude, we already talked about the 10 ,363 consecutive snaps. We got to talk about the first time you weren't out there on the field, man.

56:23How hard was that? Because you're the Ironman. You played through so much. You did so much for your team. Those teams up front for the Browns, the whole line was never the issue. You guys, you always had those guys rocked and ready to play. How was it just not being able to be out there with the guys for that first time? It was really tough. My best friends were my linemen, right? John Greco, Alex Mack, Joel Batonio, Mitchell Schwartz, your boy in Kansas City. Those were my dudes. And we played a lot of seasons together. And we had really good offensive lines. Never really got probably the credit we deserved because we just weren't on very good teams.

56:59never ran for like a ton of yards because we never had that that dude as a running back at one point in my career it was me and Joel I don't know how many pro bowls we got between the two of us Alex Mack I think he made six or seven Greco should have made a pro bowl and then you got Mitchell Schwartz who made like four or five all pros so like yeah we had a lot of hardware there between all of us and so yeah the hardest thing like line linemen they're so close and tight ends are sort of an extension of the offensive line and you know those are usually the closest rooms on a football team. And so I almost, you have this like feeling inside of you, not that you betrayed them or you let them down, but like, that was almost the feeling and the emotion that was coming out of me when I couldn't be out there anymore, because it was just such a thing that I took for granted.

57:43Didn't even think about like, Hey, do I go and strap it back up and play this week? I don't know. I'm kind of banged up. I got an MCL sprain. Like that never crossed my mind. It was just like, I got a job to do. I'm going to show up and do my job. And I can use all of my brain space now to think about how I'm going to beat this guy rather than wondering like, Ooh, am I healthy enough to play? Can I go out there? I don't know. Should I sit down? Like that never crossed my mind. And I think it helped me, but then that moment it's gone. There was like some mental health issues that I had to deal with a feeling like I let those guys around me down.

58:14And, you know, even though the team sucked, like I still had that really strong connection with the fan base and I had that same feeling with them. Like, you know, I felt like I always owed it to them to go out and give my best and do whatever I can to try to turn this thing into a winner because they're so loyal, so passionate. And I wanted to give them that gratitude by going out and playing great ball. So it was, it was really, really hard dealing with that. And I did whatever I could with the team, trying to help the other linemen, you know, prepare for games, watching film for them, taking notes.

58:42And the one benefit I would say for me is it was Myles Garrett's rookie year. So I was able to really spend a lot of time with Myles and help him see the game from an offensive tackles perspective right so damn you joe damn you joe i wasn't gonna do that until i was definitely out of the league but yeah i would write him scouting reports and i would give him like hey okay this is what this guy's good at this is what he's not good at this is the rush i think you should feature but don't do it at the beginning of the game set him up first two quarters and then in the second half when the game's on the line now you pull out your best stuff and then you give him what you've been giving him and then you'll probably beat him and then you know it turns out he's also a really ridiculously fucking good athlete so you can kind of do whatever i ask him to do which is just do whatever just go out there and have fun miles freaking he's like a scorpion a girl like it's unreal to that point though it is it's fascinating how much guys come into the league and they don't necessarily understand what guys on the other side of the ball are being taught.

59:46It's one thing to understand what coverds they're in, what front they're in, but it's a whole other level of preparation to understand how you're being defended in routes, how this guy is going to use his hands or use his moves throughout the day in terms of pass rush. And that really – that 100 % took my game to the next level, asking guys like Eric Berry about coverages, about his leverages, asking DBs, you know, what are you thinking in this sort of coverage? You know, going up to a guy like Spaggs, the defensive coordinator at KC, and asking him, you know, later in the game, what are you thinking in big-time situations?

1:00:25It's just you ask the right questions to the right guys, and you're going to see yourself progress down the line. And Miles had a fucking Hall of Famer sitting right there telling him what they – I mean, that's a fucking cheat code in itself, let alone how athletic that dude is, man. Yeah, man. I tried to be a psychologist, right? I wanted to know what that dude was thinking. I want to know who his girlfriend was. I wanted to know what he ate for breakfast. Like, because I felt like that's how you slow the game down. And as you get older, you get to be a shittier athlete. But like, if your brain's speeding up, you can play faster.

1:00:55And that's how guys are able to stick around, especially on the old line, a lot longer than their athletic ability should allow them is because the game's just moving so slow for them because they know everything that's going on and they can see things before they happen. absolutely let's talk a little bit international football fuck yeah Germany for almost a full year right yep yep where so we're the Ravens baby there we go baby how was the experience amazing yeah amazing okay I was trying to twist your arm to come over and hang out I know you wanted to so bad lots of stuff going on but a great time and Munich is just incredible city it's in southern Germany and Bavaria it's right on the edge of the Alps so like When I wanted to go over and coach American football in Europe, obviously I wanted to scratch the itch of coaching.

1:01:42I wanted all my kids to experience living abroad, living international, challenge them, put them in uncomfortable situations. My kids made them play rugby when I were there with my 10-year-old daughter playing rugby with the boys. So cool. That's awesome. I wanted to do all those things because I thought it would make them better people. We'd have a great experience to be able to travel. but I really wanted to have an opportunity to go and coach professionals, coach adults without having the time commitment that it takes to be like an NFL coach. I really wanted to impact players that love the game.

1:02:14And it was really, really fun because these guys are basically playing for peanuts. You know, they're not getting paid, but a few hundred euros every month to go out there and they're working regular jobs. And so it was so joyful because these dudes had talent. They just didn't have the coaching. They didn't have the resources growing up. So you could take a guy that was here and throughout the course of the season, you're seeing significant improvement every single week. And not a single time, you ever have to ask them for more effort. You never have to ask them to focus, right? Because they're signing up to do this for nothing.

1:02:44They wouldn't be there if they weren't obsessed with the game of football. That's awesome, man. So were all of these guys like German football players or were there any like international like U.S. players playing over there? Yeah. yeah so good sorry i'm sorry to cut you off that was poor guesting right there on my part cut his ass off i'm an idiot don't worry about it in the elf european league of football so every team is allowed four americans typically it's a quarterback receiver and then two dbs right because those are positions that are harder to find in europe sure but all my offensive linemen were german guys um you're allowed a certain number of players outside of the country that your team is based in um but linemen is what germany does best that was the reason i wanted to go there right so yeah baby uh yeah all german guys which is cool because you got to get a little flavor of the german culture a little bit of like the slang the language and started to understand them a little bit more and you're filling up on those schnitzels or what lots of schnitzel mid promise lots of hellish beer like you were living in that country which is such a different experience yeah then if you're just vacationing or just traveling as a tourist i love it is europe ready for the nfl what what was your what was your takeaway from germany do they love football oh man they are obsessed with football really with the nfl dude like we played over there it was fucking it was pretty it was through the roof and that was frankfurt so i can only imagine what a big city like munich is yeah man like you guys are freaking heroes like i didn't get noticed much over there but like you two guys are fucking kings over there it is so cool just seeing how popular the game is right they love it they're obsessed um and the nfl's done a great job putting games over there, giving them a feel of what an NFL game looks like from a fan experience, but also like on the field, what we do every day, the gladiators that we are, or I, I used to be going out there, putting your body on the line for your team.

1:04:40Like they totally get it. Like it really resonates with the German mindset, the German culture, the teamwork aspect, the sacrifice, the toughness, the way that the game is violent. Like it's just perfect for them. And I think, that was really what sparked my interest in going to munich because i worked the munich game for the nfl network and i got to be in that stadium allianz arena and i was like holy shit these dudes love this thing like i gotta get over here and be part of it yeah that's awesome did you do octoberfest while you're over there i just gotta ask i've always wanted to go we gotta ask we gotta ask oh yeah oh yeah a couple times it's a great party it's a great party so fun it was cool so you got to buy tables like it's really hard to get like uh you gotta know somebody and thankfully our special teams coach over there tom he was head of security it's always the teamers isn't it that's right it's always the teamers i had a security for one of the big um beer companies and so we had a couple tables so we it was right after a season so actually i i was there and had uh all of our team got them all together you know bought them all the beers and stuff because these guys are basically poor college kids so we we did the whole deal we had like 20 or 30 of the guys from the team there and we celebrated the end of the season the way you're supposed to with uh good good german helles beer polka and some uh we blew it up it was it was a tremendous time and when you get that experience with the locals like you're getting the proper experience hell yeah that's awesome dude you're you're our only connect to octoberfest so we might be hitting you up here in a few years guys yeah let's go we might be back in the fall let's do this let's do it all right we're gonna get to a section we call we gotta ask during this section you don't have to answer you can tell us the fuck off we're just gonna do like a rapid fire list of questions ready nice were you ever going to play a position other than offensive line so in college i played some defensive end and i played tight end but uh they saw how fast that was so they moved me to offensive line that's how it always works really quickly was it always going to be football uh i I was actually more of a basketball guy until I stopped growing up and started growing out.

1:06:48So when I was 14, I was 6 '7", and then I never grew another inch. So I realized, damn. Were you, I was about to say, were you getting looks through high school or? So I had like some small offers, like walking on Wisconsin Marquette, like some small offer scholarship, like Holy Cross and some other. Holy Cross. Yeah, you're like, okay, I could go play hoops at Holy Cross or I could play football at Notre Dame or Wisconsin or Miami. You're like USC. I'm like, okay. I get it. You're telling me without telling me that it's going to be football. But do you think you could have played in the NBA? Hell no.

1:07:19I was not that good. I was just a hustle guy. I could get some rebounds. You have a mean hook shot in the paint or on the block or what? Yeah. That's awesome. Coach, who had the biggest impact on your game? Probably George Warhop. He was the offensive line coach I had the longest during my career. He was tough. He was very technically sound. He forced you to just do an unbelievable amount of homework and notes and extra individual, like, you know, probably like Stoutland, like all those things. Right. But at the end of the day, you respect him. You love him like a father and he can be safely say like he had an outsized impact and you wouldn't be where you were when your career was over without him touching your life.

1:07:59You're inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2023. How did you find out you got in? It was a very special day. So Walter Jones, who was my idol growing up, came to the door, knocked on the door had no idea that I was going to have the uh messenger man show up at the door at that time because up until that moment they used to bring you down to the Super Bowl in a hotel room and then they would knock and like say congratulations so they call you and say sorry you didn't make it which sucked because your family's there and everything then you got to fly home um so they changed it my year where they actually called your wife talked to her like set make sure you're at home so they could surprise you at home.

1:08:38And so I was actually, she told me we're going to go to dinner. It was Friday night. So we're going to go to a fish fry with the neighbors, you know? So I was kind of like, always got fish involved. So I was out at the farm doing my cattle stuff for Hall of Fame beef during the day. And I got home and I was kind of dirty. So I was just in my underwear and she's like, Hey, we got to go to dinner. You got to get changed pretty quick i'm like don't worry about it like she's like coming coming to the uh the kitchen we got to talk about something schedule lies and she's like but put your clothes on i'm like why like i'll do that after we have our little meeting she's like no you can't come in here unless you have your pants on i'm like all right whatever like it's always got to be your way doesn't it and she was just trying to get me away from the door because she didn't want me to see like all the cameras show up and she wanted like that surprise factor and it was so cool because my kids were in the kitchen with us we were having a family meeting and uh so the kids run around the the hall and they see everybody through the door so they see walter jones he's wearing his gold jacket they see the film crew and they just burned back to me and started screaming daddy you made the whole thing i was like i couldn't believe it you know the waterworks it was just so special That's awesome.

1:09:52Fuck yeah, man. Goddamn, that's a good story. What is the best Great Lake? Lake Erie. Best fishing, man. There we go. It's a fish factory. That's all I can say, baby. I love it. Those perch fry. Oh, come on. Let's go. The University of Wisconsin-Madison was named one of the nation's top party schools, something that a lot of people wouldn't necessarily assume, earning the number six spot on the Wall Street Journal's list of best party schools in the U.S. for 2025. Does it live up to the reputation? It does. I'm disappointed that it slipped because when I was there, we were number one every year.

1:10:31I guarantee I had an outsized influence on that rating. And it is awesome, man. The people there, they just want to have a good time and they're not afraid to drink some beer. Hell yeah. You got shit for playing with baggy pants. Are you aware of this show yes i loved it can you explain why you chose to wear baggy pants so i loved it i wore baggy pants because i'm all about function not fashion as you can see i am all about all right how do i get this fat dude to go as quickly as that skinny fast dude yes and if you're wearing those tight pants that show off these these great legs and great ass that i never had i had been ass at all like there was there was no ass in those pants uh like it's kind of hard to move especially if you throw like the knee sleeves and the knee braces and all the gear and the kit you're wearing underneath oh yeah uh it slows you down a lot so i always thought you know what's the quickest most nimble thing on on planet earth it's the ninja right yes sandex pants no no they wear those nice comfy baggy joggers right so i was like give me gotta go to the room give me the largest pants you have and we had a guy named ishmaelie kitchen who was like a nose guard maybe five eleven six foot yeah 350 ish big boy i wore a pant size that was too bigger than him so you know that i was really really stretching it and i actually had to have a little um like elastic sticky like uh i know what you mean so on on the inside of my pants so they wouldn't fall down that's fucking money shout out to all the equipment guys making it work man i was doing the same thing right now they don't make pants big enough no even if you go like a like a size 40 or 42 ways they still ride up over your knees and i'm a big my fucking knees have to be covered all dudes are doing like guys are fucking putting their helmet right on my fucking kneecaps i need that i need those fucking things covered that's right and i still wear those old school pads that look like thigh pads in the knees um but no they were they were like extending them like an extra like three or four inches because they weren't fucking making them long enough man shout out to all the equipment guys yeah by all these young gen xers gen z's whoever they are like are they teasing you for your pants they more so tease me for fucking throwing a fit when they shrink the fucking old guy getting all pissed off because his pants don't fit i'm just like Oh, it's so good.

1:12:59All right. You've said it took you four hours to play for a game. What was your pregame process? Well, I won't waste all four hours telling you what it was, but it was very long because I was always one of the first guys that got there. And I would always make sure I go on the field first because I wanted a little moment of serenity before anybody was in the stadium to go on the field and just absorb it and just appreciate the fact that I get to go play in an NFL stadium. Fuck yeah, man. So few people in the world that get to do this, and they're going to pay me to do this today. You know, that was sort of me like telling myself, this is worth it to go out and like shred your body for three and a half hours.

1:13:33Yeah. Go out there where there's absolutely no upside whatsoever. If I play the world's greatest game as a left tackle, nobody knows. You're 0-15, but it's worth it. We'll be talking about it for three fucking years. Yeah. So it was that one moment at the beginning where I'd be like, all right, this is really cool. And I would just kind of walk around. Didn't have any of my stuff on yet. and just take it in check the field too that was important like trying to figure out exactly you know how my cleats were like was everything proper you know how cold is it where's the wind stuff like that um then went back inside took a shower then it was a long time in the training room you know hot tub if they had it and then putting all the equipment on just took forever because i was wearing two knee sleeves elbow sleeves or elbow braces you know all the other stuff that you normally put on taping the ankles the whole deal and then i even took it a step further the only other thing i'll mention out of all the stuff that uh i i usually did was you know the qda the quick drying adhesive that they spray on your ankles before they tape it yeah so i took a bottle of that and i would spray the bottom of my feet and then i would spray my legs so that when i put my knee sleeves on they wouldn't slide and then my socks wouldn't slide down right because nothing more annoying than your socks sliding down have to deal with it they find you for one I don't want to give up my money to Roger Goodell.

1:14:51But then I also sprayed the bottom of my socks because inside my shoe, one thing that happened early on in my career that I fucking hated was like, it gets hot, you're sweaty, and your feet start sliding. It's the worst. You can slide, and then you can't feel the ground the way you need to. Like, I always thought of myself like an eagle. Like, my feet were the talons, and I was gripping the ground, and that gave me the balance and the agility that I needed. And so when I figured out how to, like, spray-basing my whole body, it's sticky stuff so I wouldn't slide at all. that was that was the next level and then on top of that i would i would do like a bunch of tape on my hand so that i was like a boxer you know i was like a ninja turtle taping the fingers together and then taping the thumbs so your thumbs don't get screwed up um so it took a long time just put all that stuff on just spraying the sticky shit on you like it's sunscreen or something just

1:15:39that's that's stunk too like there's definitely some cancer warnings in that shit oh yeah that's all right we've done worse right yeah i used to do something so i would also set like little alarms i would have my phone i would set alarms at every 15 minutes to like all right now i'm gonna get my ankles taped now i'm gonna take my pre-workout now i'm gonna take my fingers now i'm gonna like warm up now i'm gonna do this and uh and speak i used to hate that foot thing under armor made a cleat insole that was like rubber for like a couple years oh yeah and i just like scoured all of these cleats just so i could get this like i hate the cloth that's on top.

1:16:13Why would you do close? It doesn't make sense. No sense. Exactly. Stupid. All right. Well, we agree on that. Speaking of dumb, we're going to get to our next segment. No dumb questions. Pick your favorites. We can either do liquid out of fingers. What the fuck does this mean, Brandon? None of it means nobody knows anything. All right. First off, tell Joe what this is. Tell Joe what the segment is. These are questions from fans. Thank you, Brandon. you're the best as always what is that shirt I'm always nice you're my best friend what is that steel still rocking still kicking from my local liquor store love that how many bottles of booze you gotta buy to get a free t-shirt from the local liquor store bro my parents watch this show so we're not gonna answer that one don't worry about it they have a wonderful wine club alright so no dumb questions is fan submitted questions that are usually really stupid, but we call them not dumb to encourage people to feel comfortable enough to submit really stupid questions.

1:17:22We have one question that's going to be related to liquid out of fingers. We have another question that's going to be related to Kentucky Derby horse name. We have another one related to NFL team of other pro athletes. I don't know what that, okay, or Scottish sports. Which one of those is speaking to you most, Joe? Let's go Scottish sports. Scottish sports. This is where we go. This is why we need more linemen on this show. All right. Scottish sports. Hit us, Brandon. Hi, Jason and Travis. Colin from Glasgow, Scotland here. Just a dumb question is, what would you do if you would come to Scotland?

1:17:59What sports event would you undertake? Cheers. All the best. Wow. First of all, love the accent. I mean, if we have Scottish people calling in, Brandon, and they get first right of any of the questions. I don't even care what they ask, just so I can hear that. What? All right. Joe, you're the guest. You have the honors. How do you want to answer that? Yeah, if you're going to Scotland, what sport are you playing? Yeah, I mean, golf is the easy one. But I was over in Ireland for Alex Mack's wedding a few years ago, and they play this game called, like, hurling. It's kind of like rugby. Dude, lacrosse.

1:18:35Yeah, dude, that game is fucking lit. I was trying to. go ahead please dude we were we were talking about uh we were talking about like bucket list items one of my bucket list items is to go to like i was thinking about it afterwards didn't say it in the show but um to go to one of these games but like the olympics version of this like the like the world cup version of this like i want to see the best of the best go at it with this shit because it is absolutely electric jason do you know what he's talking about i'd actually So where I live in Philadelphia is one of the biggest Irish like collections of like a population, like direct descendants.

1:19:11So they have like leagues of hurling and actually another sport in Ireland that's really popular called Gaelic football. Yeah. Yeah. So you play with like a ball. You kind of have to kick it every two steps. That's a version of dribbling. But then you I don't know. I don't really understand all the rules behind. I watched it once. Pretty cool. But hurling is very interesting. Seems really hard. I played lacrosse. Yeah. seems like much easier to put that ball in a net than like balancing it on a wooden stick i don't really understand how that's possible yeah yeah uh and it's probably incredibly derogatory and offensive that we've just taken scottish sports i wasn't gonna say it but i'm like i'm pretty sure this is not the same area the only scottish the only scottish sports i know are golf and the Scottish Strongman Games.

1:20:01I forget what they're called. Highland Games. Highland Games, thank you. Yeah, that would be sick. I would love to see that. They're like throwing the pole in the kilts, and they're like throwing it over their heads, and they got to get it to like flip. I'd be into that for sure. Trav, what do you got? That sounds like a renaissance fair. I'm just going to go golf since you guys didn't go golf. I'll go over there and play some fucking golf, man. All right, so liquid out of fingers, Kentucky Derby horse name or NFL team of other pro athletes, which that's - Liquid out of fingers, because I'm very curious what the hell is.

1:20:29Hit it, Brandon. Hi, Jason and Travis. I just have one question for you. If your five fingers could dispense infinite liquid, what would your five liquids be? So, for example, mine are fresca, gasoline to put gas in your car, water, coffee, and Tito's. Yeah, what would your guys' five liquids be? Thank you. I love it. I love it. Awesome. Good question. I like this. That's a solid question. Yeah. All right. Joe, again, you're the guest. You do the honor, sir. Unless you would prefer to go last. No, I'll do it. So I'm going to try to count to five. Hellas beer. Hellas beer. All right. Being in Germany, fell in love with that beer.

1:21:16Coffee. That's non-negotiable. I'm going to go diesel fuel because I spend a hell of a lot of money on diesel fuel out at the farm. like that's a big check every month smart just put your finger in the amp filling up again another 300 gallons for nothing see there kids

1:21:38free diesel for life uh and then let's see water is that four or five we need brandon that's four and then the last one milk because whole milk my kids drink an insane amount of whole milk i got four kids and so i think we go through like a gallon a day right now my oldest is only 12 and when i was in high school i think i drank a gallon every day by myself so that would save also a lot of money we would go through about two gallons a week but not again today that's pretty intense what time about you've brought up hellas beer the only reason i know what hellas beer is is because i had this like brew game on my phone and you had to like brew different beers and hellas was one of beers what kind of beer is a hellas beer do you play a brew game on your phone instead of like that's amazing i love it i need to check out that app but um i'll send it to you yeah that sounds awesome yeah so the hellas beer is like the beer of at least southern germany but down in bavaria where i was coaching in munich and it's fantastic it's like the most clean clear crisp refreshing yeah it's like just amazingly refreshing like a blonde lager that's just fantastic they have the german purity laws so they're only allowed to use a few ingredients so it's like very consistently awesome no matter where you go there's like no preservatives so it's not something that you can get in a lot of places like it's usually out of the keg and it's fresh from the brewery and it's basically kind of it was my water that i drank every day when i was all right i guess i'll go i'll go water i'm not going to steal diesel gasoline that's a freaking great answer i want to steal it so bad yeah that was good i didn't go that far gosh all right so i'll go water beer um i'll go drink garage beer because that's our beer travis and i own a beer company so we got to go drunk yeah you guys should brew a hellas man i love that oh all right you're talking us into it i love this all right all right the joe thomas hellas brought to you by garage beer get on it guys so we got beer we got water what other liquids do I consume on a regular basis?

1:23:45I'll go. Gasoline was a great one too. Coffee. Why did that take me so long? Coffee. That's because I didn't have any coffee. I need some coffee. I'll go whey protein because I spent a bunch of money on whey protein. It's not a – all right. Once you mix it up, it's still liquid, right? All right, yeah. so i go with the pre-made drink whatever that is yeah all right yeah there you go fair life fair life protein rich uh protein or whatever shout out to fair life there's your free advertising for the day and then i'll go milk but i'm gonna go cereal milk i'm gonna go reese's peanut butter puffs milk chocolatey delicious that's pretty good that was pretty good Go ahead, Trent.

1:24:36All right. I'm going to the drinks that I drink every single fucking day. So I'm going Accelerator. Active Energy. Active Energy drink. I'm going Recover 180, which is my favorite sports hydration drink. I'm going Zen Water because Zen Water's got really good HP levels. And what else am I going? Oh, I'm going Casa Azul Tequila. My favorite tequila. It's the most purest. Blue Agave. No fucking ad bullshit. And my last one, garage beer. I'm going lime garage beer, though. Perfect, perfect. All right. Travis is a walking billboard for all the answers. Great job, man. Now we know who makes all the money in the family on marketing.

1:25:19All right. First of all, that was No Dumb Questions. You can submit your No Dumb Questions in the comments on social or give us a call at 929-399-7260. Joe, this is all we got for you, but I do have one more question. You're wearing the shirt. We haven't talked about it yet. How's Hall of Fame beef going? How do you like being a cattle rancher? Yeah, totally. You got to sell a 92 % of exactly what it is. Are you a rancher or a farmer? So typically ranchers are people that raise cattle. But in Wisconsin, where my farm is, where I grew up, like they call any land, any ag land is a farm, right? So I am conflicted.

1:25:54I don't know if I'm a rancher or a farmer. But I just generally call myself a farmer. But it's been going great. Like 2007, my kids told me they wanted some pet cows for the farm. And I was like, okay, but we're going to have to eat them because I love eating beef. And like, if we're going to raise these things, we might as well enjoy it. Yeah. So I started with five. And then the first year we raised, we ate it. Turns out it was fantastic. Whatever we did, we like nailed it. Found lightning in a bottle right off the bat. I gave it to a buddy who's a James Beard chef in Madison. And it was just like, hey, what do you think?

1:26:25He cooked it up. Thought it was fantastic. Said it was better than any of the stuff that he gets in the restaurant supply. Oh, that's awesome. Fancy cattle ranches. And so then that's when like the, the brain started working overtime. Like, Hey man, maybe I could make this like a business. This is too good to just keep to myself. And so we've been just kind of going full bore since then. We're raising Wagyu beef, which is like beautiful stuff. We're raising Angus beef right now. And we're selling direct consumer. We got like these amazing beef sticks for the kids. So like, I'm getting a lot out of it.

1:26:57That was my question. Yeah. I want to know, is it Angus? Is it Angus Hereford crosses? Like, what are we working with? We're Black Angus. Yeah. So we have Black Angus Simmental's right now. And we're kind of shifting the herd as we're like improving genetics. I'm trying to treat these things like pro athletes. I'm trying to think of like, I know what it takes to have high performance, what it takes to be at your best, to grow the most muscle and strength and power and all those outputs. And so we're like, hey, these are our pro athletes. So we need to reduce the stress. We need to figure out from a nutritionist, what's all the nutrition that they possibly we can have so that they're the healthiest beef for us and for themselves.

1:27:35They have the most marbling. So the best buttery mouthfeel possible. We raise them on the banks of the Blue River. We got this amazing pasture on our farm. We keep really, really low density. So their stress is really low. Wow. Everything we feed them is raised on our farm and they're born on our farm. And from the day they go to heaven, they live in our place. So we think that we're raising some really great stuff and it's kind of been a passion project when you retire you gotta have some purpose somewhere you know like hell yeah so many guys they just wander in the wilderness they don't have that purpose and for me it's like all right i want to see if i can raise the best beef on planet earth and so you know hall of famer i was like hey man let's name this hall of fame beef and see if we can find a way to raise the best beef on planet earth so it's been a lot of fun and i was chatting up with emily reese the great emily reese who i was working with her at under way back in the day and um she said that you got a beef company too so maybe we need a good old fashion like beef measuring contest well like travis you know we both give him steaks and then he cooks them up and then we get a rating here i have a feeling you're gonna kick my ass but i would love to learn a lot of uh tricks of the trade we're just getting started with it like you said you need hobbies and i love beef you just explaining this i want to stay so bad right now i can't even explain it so yeah i'm all in on that i would love to learn something from you and hall of fame beef uh and get together on that since you haven't decided on your breed like we've we're gone down that genetic rabbit hole already so maybe i send you some uh embryos and some semen of the old hall of fame beef wagyu and then you can kind of like take that and explode it that'd be fun that would give me great joy so if i could send you some of my semen dude i'm in the moment you said semen absolutely you guys are fucking Travis like I'm not laughing at that that's not you guys you guys are having an old beef off right now dude Joe Hall of Fame player to the Hall of Fame beef to Hall of Fame dude man I remember coming on your show back in I can't even tell you when we're going on Radio Row and hanging out with you and Andrew Hawkins on Tomahawk dude you've paved the way for so many guys on the field off the field keep being you brother and uh thank you for for joining us and thank you for everything you did for cleveland man from one clevelander uh to somebody who lit up the city brother thank you hell yeah thank you guys so much man it was uh it was truly a pleasure being on here today is the best part of my week you know when you get a chance that's what i loved about doing a podcast you go on with some buddies and you just have a great chat that's uninterrupted by phones because you got to turn that shit off and all the distractions of daily life, and you get to just chop it up with some good friends.

1:30:12So truly, thank you guys so much for having me on. It was a blast. My man. Hell yeah. Awesome. Enjoy this weekend out in old Green Bay, brother. I'm sure it'll be a fucking blast getting back around the game, man. All right, that wraps up another episode of New Heights. Make sure you're subscribed on YouTube to New Heights so you know when all the new episodes are coming out. And make sure on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts to keep on listening. We will be back next week with draft reactions and a huge guest. Gotta love a huge guest. You know it, baby. Draft reactions, like the draft is just a slot machine for the NFL.

1:30:52Cha-ching, cha-ching, it's just everybody's playing, you know, gambling. Slots. Yeah. Like it's like slots? Slots? You can listen to new episodes of New Heights early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Once again, New Heights, a one-dry show produced by Wave Sports and Entertainment and brought to you by Suave Men. No nonsense, motherfuckers. Follow the show on all social media at New Heights Show with one S for fun clips throughout the week. Thanks to our production and crew for those clips and for making this edit so much better than what it really was.

1:31:25And thank you to the 92 %ers always for listening in. Hope you love Joe Thomas. Appreciate you. Big Tom. Big Joey Tom. Shout out to Cleveland.

1:31:39Outro Music