America marks the 25th anniversary of 9/11

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26:52You're listening to New Zealand. Donald Trump is arriving in Ireland on Saturday to meet the country's leaders in Dublin and then watch the Irish Open Golf Tournament at his resort in County Clare. Ireland has been a frequent destination for travelling US presidents, as our correspondent Chris Page now reports.

27:14Since the 1990s, Ireland has stood out among small countries as hosting a big number of US presidential visits, often with huge public welcomes for the visitors. Over the years, stories of this place have become part of my soul. I am happy to be in Ireland. I am now a free man of Dublin. The roots of the relationship lie in emigration during America's formative years. Almost one in ten Americans now claim Irish ancestry. The wheels of the presidential airliner were running on Irish soil. John F. Kennedy was in the land of his forebears. JFK was the first president to visit Ireland in 1963. This is the man whose great-grandfather somehow scraped together the four pounds for a sailing ship passage and emigrated to the United States.

28:04Barack Obama was another president with Irish heritage and he paid homage with humour. My name is Barack Obama of the Moneygall Obamas. and I've come home to find the apostrophe that we lost somewhere along the way. One of the most visible and diplomatically valuable outworkings of the country's links happens every year on the 17th of March in Washington. Let me wish everyone a very happy St. Patrick's Day. On Ireland's national holiday, the Irish Prime Minister, the Taoiseach, has a meeting and a ceremony with the President. Time-honoured tradition, I'm going to present the bowl of shamrock to President.

28:44Dan Mulhall is a former Irish ambassador to the US. I don't know of any other country that has a guaranteed annual outing in Washington. Some of my European colleagues kind of puzzled as to how Ireland had managed to pull this off. Donald Trump's visit here to Dublin and to the west of Ireland will be different to most of his predecessors. He has no known Irish ancestry. There won't be a large public rally involving him. Protests are being planned, focused on US actions in the Middle East. Dr Peter McLaughlin believes there are parallels with another visit, that of Ronald Reagan in 1984. The US was severely criticised at that point by people in Ireland at what was going on in the Cold War broadly, but very specifically in Central America.

29:30Many people in Ireland would have a cousin or someone who was serving abroad as a nun or a priest in Latin America and was able to bring back these first-hand reports of how there were very controversial associations there with US policy. And yet at the same time, this was the US president. He needed to be courted and that was the start of the real investment of the US in the Republic of Ireland and indeed Northern Ireland. I want you to know that for this great grandson of Ireland, this is a moment of joy. Ireland is more used than most nations to hosting the holder of the most powerful office in the world.

30:04This weekend of diplomacy and demonstrations will be another episode in a story dating back decades. And that was the BBC's Ireland correspondent Chris Page reporting.

30:22This is the BBC in London. You're listening to NewsHour and I'm James Menendez. Well, let's turn to what's happening in Yemen now because fighters from the Iran-backed Houthi movement appear to be tightening their grip on the entrance to one of the world's most important shipping routes, the Red Sea. The latest reports say that they've taken control of an island at the narrowest point of the Bab el-Mandeb Strait, where the southwest corner of Yemen meets the Horn of Africa, just 30 kilometres away. Passage through the strait is crucial for Saudi Arabian oil exports, especially given the disruption to the traditional route on the other side of the Arabian Peninsula through the Strait of Hormuz.

30:59And it is the Saudi connection that perhaps explains the Houthis' latest advances. Saudi Arabia backs Yemen's internationally recognised government against the Houthis. Well, let's talk to the journalist Iona Craig, who's been covering Yemen for many years after being based there. Iona, very good to have you with us as ever on NewsHour. They've captured this island. They've also captured a port, Mokka, a little way up the coast. How significant are these advances, do you think? Well, they're very significant for kind of two reasons really. Internally in Yemen's war, this is the most significant shift in territorial control since probably 2021 really in the country's long-running civil war.

31:41But more broadly than that, of course, it's about the control of the Babel Mendeb. The Houthis have been for several years now affecting and impacting shipping in the Red Sea on and off since Israel's war on Gaza was launched um but they've been doing that more remotely with um missiles and drones and even waves of drones but now this gives them direct control from the small little island of parim or also known as mayun that is right in the middle of the babel mendab now it means that they have very they have the international shipping route is now at very close quarters for them and it gives them a huge amount of leverage now.

32:24Against Saudi Arabia? Yes, absolutely. The Houthis have been trying for many years to negotiate a deal with Saudi Arabia, particularly over Saudi paying several million, if not billions of dollars to civil servants in Houthi territory and government salaries. But the Saudis had not been too keen to do that. And with escalating fighting over recent weeks, and certainly since July, the Houthis now in the last 24 hours have very much got the upper hand. The internationally recognised government forces folded quite quickly in the end yesterday. And then they were able to push on and take this island earlier today, which gives them a real sort of crucial control over this vitally important shipping way.

33:18I mentioned that the Houthis are backed by Iran and one can see that having control of another crucial waterway is useful to Iran. Is Iran behind this? Is it using the Houthis to flex its muscles in this way? Absolutely, the Houthis are allied with Iran. But I think with this, it serves both interests. Those of Iran, of course, because it increases their leverage now over the US, but also the Houthis. I think the Houthis' long-term goal, always with the Bab al-Mendab, was to be able to monetize it themselves, much like we've heard talk of Iran trying to do the same over the Strait of Hormuz, where traffic would have to pay a toll to go through the strait.

34:03I think the Houthis would dearly very much like to do the same with the Bab al-Mendab. And now they have physical control over that route. It opens up that possibility for them. So it serves both parties, the Houthis and Iran at the same time. But Iran will certainly be very supportive of this Houthi move, which I think they've wanted for some time since the war started with the US back in March. But it's only been recently that the Houthis have been prepared to make that push south and actually were able to do it quite easily in the end. Iona, thank you very much indeed. Iona Craig, journalist and Yemen expert joining us live.

34:44Now, the government of Iceland says it'll put forward a bill early next year, which could lead to a permanent ban on whaling in its waters. If approved, that would leave Norway and Japan as the only two countries that still allow commercial whaling. Iceland's hunting season runs from early summer to the end of this month. Its quota is up to 150 animals, usually fin whales. And in fact, there's only one whaling company left in the country. Earlier today, the BBC's James Cocknell asked its chief executive, Christian Lofsson, why he'd made whaling his career. Yeah, I've been asked this question a million times, but I could ask you, why are you in radio?

35:20This is like any other industry, catching whales from a sustainable resource. And we are fishermen here in Iceland and that's how we live. But is that how most Icelanders live? How much of a history of commercial whaling is there? I've been talking to Ragnar Edvardsson, maritime archaeologist at the University of Iceland. Commercial whaling has never been throughout the centuries an important thing in Iceland. You know, Icelanders primarily hunted whales for subsistence through harvesting beeched whales. It isn't until the 20th century that Icelanders actually begin commercial whaling. Yeah, when you say using beeched whales, so how were they used?

35:59A whale that died, was washed on the shore, whether it was from, that had been harpooned or died of natural causes. It washed on somebody's farm. The law was clear about that, that the owner of the farm had all rights to the whale and could use it for his own purposes. So it was a very important addition to the farm economy in Iceland in the past. Yeah, and of course, whale fat, blubber, is useful for oil, isn't it? And for burning to create light and heat and so on. And what about the meat? Is there a long tradition of eating whale meat? Eating whale meat probably was always part of the culture all the way back to the settlement period and continued well into the 20th century.

36:43It was like, you can say, a tradition to eat whale meat. And people looked at beeched whales as a gift from God, basically. This was during famine and difficult times. Beeched whales could get a whole community through the winter, for example. And yet commercial whaling persisted throughout the 20th century and whales were almost hunted to extinction, I understand, in Icelandic water. So who was doing that hunting? It all began in the 17th century with the Basque and the Dutch and also French and English whalers. But commercial whaling didn't really kick off until the 19th century, late 19th century, with the invention of the explosive harpoon and the steam engine because now whalers could actually hunt the fast-swimming whales like blue whales.

37:32It was the Norwegians primarily who began the whaling around Iceland in the late 19th century, primarily focused on blue whales. And they almost hunted them to extinction. When you reach the late 19th century, Icelanders started realizing actually that they could benefit from this themselves if they started whaling. And we can say that they learned from the Norwegians both how to run whaling factories and how to go about hunting whales. They begin in 1930, the Icelanders, but that really doesn't kick off until about 1940. And after that, Icelanders really are committed to commercial whaling. And what about attitudes now towards whaling?

38:13I mean, how would you assess those in Iceland at the moment? In general, I would say that Icelanders are seeing that this is not really beneficial, neither for the economy nor our reputation. So I think in general, Icelanders are against whaling rather than, you know, and want to stop it. That's what I personally think. Just out of interest, have you ever eaten whale meat in your life? Yes, I've done that both here in Iceland and in the Faroes. The big whales, personally, I don't think they're very tasteful, but pilot whales, they are actually tasteful. Tastes like, just like beef. But, you know, in general, the world is turning more towards, you know, watching the whales instead of hunting them.

38:56I think that's beneficial in itself. Ragnar Edvardsson, who's a maritime archaeologist at the University of Iceland. The first Republican National Convention to be held midway through a presidential term came to an end on Thursday. And it made headlines, not least because of President Trump's startling pledge to give every American adult$5 ,000 if the party were to retain control of Congress in November's elections. So what does a former close ally of Mr. Trump think of the odds of them doing that? My colleague Sean Lay caught up with Steve Bannon, former Trump campaign manager and White House chief strategist, in the president's first term.

39:35We have a very tough path ahead of us, but it's going to come down to about 20 seats in the House. And it's going to come down to a handful of seats in the Senate and a couple of governorships. I strongly believe right now that we will hold the House by a seat or two as I see it. Oh, yeah, it's going to be very tough. Don't get me wrong. But this is this election. And I'm so glad the president we have advocated for the beginning for President Trump to take charge here and put himself on the ballot. The reason is the Democrats in the DSA have very smartly and they are running a very smart campaign.

40:04They've nationalized this election around Donald Trump. Well, if they're going to do it, the advisers around President Trump continue to have this like it's a persuasion election. This is not a persuasion election. This is all about turnout. Fine, but as he left it too late. No, because it's a handful of it's like 20 to 25 house seats of those over half. He won overwhelmingly in 24. So you have to win about half of those seats to hold the house. And I'm saying hold the house by one or two, one or two seats. And in holding the house, remember, you're not going to have a massive legislative program.

40:37I'm talking about just hanging on so that the house does not turn into an impeachment machine. Well, that's what I was going to ask you, because that's the risk, isn't it? if you don't succeed in the way you hope. And at the moment, the polls suggest, and of course they are only polls, they're not votes, but they suggest a similar outcome to 2018. I mean, that would be a pretty miserable last couple of years of Donald Trump. Sean, if they win by even a seat or two, the White House will become Fort Apache. It'll be an onslaught every day from every different direction. They're going to come after the White House, the administration and the MAGA movement.

41:12There'll be open political warfare if the Democrats take the House. And like I said, the White House would be Fort Apache. Right. And you've made that point very clearly. I want to ask you about the war within the context of the foreign policy challenges America faces. You've been very clear you're opposed to this war continuing. How do you think it's going to end? I mean, we heard the president say yesterday, oh, lend as soon as the midterm elections are over. Really? I have adamantly opposed this war from the beginning. The good news, I think, is that we've now turned to economic warfare, which we should have done in the first place.

41:46We're going to enforce secondary sanctions. Scott Besson is going to destroy their currency. Against anyone who trades with Iran or any companies. And by the way, banks that deal with them, and not just in England, but in Europe. China is the big one, and Xi is coming at the end of September. This is all about China's support of it. So Scott Besson is a safe pair of hands. He's in charge of the economic warfare. I think the kinetic part, I hope, is behind us. I'm an advocate of America first and hemispheric defense. You know, we've got enough from the Arctic to Latin America and the Western Pacific to deal with.

42:20It's time the Middle East has been a sideshow in the Israel. Greater Israel project is a sideshow to a sideshow. I'm a strong advocate that we just, you know, wipe our hands of the whole mess and focus on those areas. We need to think Donald Trump is prepared to do that because in a sense his pride is now on the line, isn't it? I think President Trump is a realist, a very practical person. Look, he's been trying to get to peace in Ukraine. He's been trying to get to peace with the peace board in Gaza. He wants some sort of accommodation with the with the Persian regime. He says this over and over again.

42:56You know, President Trump's a man of peace. And so I hope. Well, he wants the peace prize, doesn't he? He's been quite honest about that. Well, I happen to believe a big advocate that he should have gotten it. That was Steve Bannon talking there to my colleague Sean Lay. You're listening to News Out.

43:20You're listening to News Out with James Menendez. Well, let's return to our top story today. Those events taking place right now to mark 25 years since 9-11. those attacks in which nearly 3 ,000 people were killed. Well, later on that day in 2001, as a shocked nation tried to comprehend what had happened, then-President George W. Bush addressed the country. The pictures of airplanes flying into buildings, fires burning, huge structures collapsing, have filled us with disbelief, terrible sadness, and a quiet, unyielding anger. These acts of mass murder were intended to frighten our nation into chaos and retreat.

44:07But they have failed. Our country is strong. A great people has been moved to defend a great nation. Terrorist attacks can shake the foundations of our biggest buildings, but they cannot touch the foundation of America. Let's hear now from someone who traced the story of 9-11 from its origins well before 2001 and catalogued the multiple intelligence failures that led up to the attacks. Lawrence Wright is author of The Looming Tower, Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9-11, considered one of the definitive accounts of the plot. He's described recently 9-11 as an unsolved crime. I asked him why. Well, there are several instances that crimes were committed and haven't been solved.

44:54One was against our intelligence agencies, especially the CIA, which hid the information that al-Qaeda was present in America 19 months before 9-11, two hijackers living in San Diego that the CIA was aware of and refused to tell the FBI about it. Probably they were trying to turn them with the assistance of Saudi authorities, but it led to 9-11. And had they been willing to turn over that information to the proper agency, which was the FBI, then I'm convinced that 9-11 would never have happened. Was it incompetence or was it, as you sort of hinted there in your answer, something else? Well, these two agencies had a bitter feud.

45:40They have different missions. You know, the FBI is to solve crimes, put people on trial and convict them. The CIA is its job normally is just to follow the leads. Tell us about Omar al-Bayoumi, thinking about failures to follow up. There were documents that were seized from his home. They were not gone through, and in fact, they were kept hidden for years. Why is he a significant character, do you think? He was mentioned in the 9-11 Commission report, and they saw him as kind of an amiable bumbler who stumbled into history. When the hijackers first arrived in America, they landed in Los Angeles in January of 2000.

46:26And that day, Omar Bayoumi claims he just happened to be in a restaurant in Los Angeles and overheard Gulf accents in Arabic, and so he sat down and talked to these two young men who couldn't speak English. He offered to help them. Why don't you come down to San Diego where I live? I'll put you up. I'll give you rent money. You know, I'll introduce you to everybody you want to know. We have videotape of him introducing those future hijackers to the Muslim community. One of the people he introduced them to was the leader of, became the leader of Al-Qaeda in Yemen. And then there's a videotape of Bayoumi describing the capital and where, you know, where the plane would land.

47:14Look, he points over, it was in a box in storage. I guess it was in the Scotland Yard for a while. And then it came to the FBI. I find inexplicable that here is a damning box of evidence that had been opened at one point and somebody just didn't see the significance of it. Do you think some of the lessons for those agencies have been learned? Yes, to some extent. You know, there is now a national counterterrorism center where each of the 18 intelligence agencies in America have a desk. And so they're mandated to talk to each other. But, you know, there's still institutional jealousies and so on.

48:02But one must credit them with stopping in a future 9-11. What about the wider reverberations from that day? What's the legacy, do you think? Is it a diminished America and a diminished America in Americans' own eyes as well? Oh, yeah. It is no question that 9-11, it was a turning point and a sad one. You know, we were so unprepared and still had that sense of invulnerability, which was exploded right in front of our eyes. And how we reacted to, you know, I don't think that bin Laden thought he could destroy America, America, but he certainly undermined us. And since then, our actions have really taken a toll.

48:48It's undeniable that we followed a course of overreaction, leading us into wars that went on forever. Millions of people killed. Our actions after 9-11 have really undermined the country that we thought we were. And in fact, at one point in your essay, you say it's fair to wonder if bin laden won even though he didn't achieve any of his aims well he couldn't have imagined he would undermine america to that extent now we find ourselves you know shedding allies we've depleted our arsenal we're in a we're in a terribly vulnerable state like we were on 9-10 and now we're in a new era of technology where small groups or even individuals like al-qaeda will be empowered with artificial intelligence and crypto and fake identities and 3D printing drones.

49:47All of these are, you know, gifts to terrorists and to tyrants that I'm sure that they'll be put to use. I just wonder what Osama bin Laden would have done with those tools. Looking back, and it's a bit of a clumsy analogy, but 9-11, I mean, now looks like a very sort of analog act of terror. But the next one, I guess, will be digital. Well, and which cities are really defended against the drone strikes, for instance? There will be another attack. Weakness, such as the state we're in, invites hostility. And we're in a place where we can't defend ourselves. We can't defend our cities against drone attacks or against prospective diseases that could be cooked up by artificial intelligence.

50:35This is a new world for us, certainly prompted by the decline of our power, but technology has provided a whole new arsenal for terror. Lawrence Wright, author of The Looming Tower. Before we go, let's hear again from New York and the service there. The four living former U.S. presidents are attending. The names of the victims are being read out to the music of the cellist Yo-Yo Ma. Paul Vincent Barbaro. James William Barbella. Victor Daniel Barbosa. Christine Jonah Barbudo. That's it for this edition of News Air. Thanks so much for being with us. Until the next time, bye-bye. Did America's war on terror work?

51:23I'm Asma Khalid, host of the Global Story podcast from the BBC. In the words of a former U.S. official, on September 11, 2001, the terrorists hijacked not just airplanes, but also the direction of U.S. foreign policy. 25 years on, what were the unintended consequences of the war on terror? For the full story, listen to The Global Story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.