Brazil's campaign for president begins

0:03Hello and welcome to NewsHour live from the BBC World Service in London. and I'm Rebecca Kesby. The Brazilian election campaign is underway with the two main parties launching their bids today.

0:23That's a flavour of the day. And once again, it's a potential showdown between the left-wing Lula and right-wing Bolsonaro. The difference this time, though, is that it's former President Jair Bolsonaro's 45-year-old son, Senator Flavio Bolsonaro, that will be leaving the Liberal Party to the polls. This is following his father's conviction, of course, for plotting a coup after the last very close election in 2022. Jair Bolsonaro is now serving 27 years for that and is banned from running from public office until 2060, by which time he'd be 105, he calls his conviction a political witch hunt. Meanwhile, incumbent President Luis Inacio Lula da Silva is going for his fourth term in office, second concurrently with his Workers' Party.

1:13He'll be 81 years old soon after the election in October. What's interesting is that in the polls, Lula and Bolsonaro the Younger are very close. We'll get into that in a moment. First, though, our South America correspondent, Ione Wells, has been at President Lula's campaign launch today and sent this report. President Lula came out onto the stage at this football stadium in the industrial city of Sao Bernardo de Campo which is just outside of Sao Paulo to black and white images of him here in 1979 and in the 80s where he is a union leader led strikes demanding better wages and conditions for workers.

1:53The slogan of this campaign event kicking off his presidential election campaign was where it all began. And there were many references during his speech to the fact that he started his political career here, campaigning as a union leader and eventually setting up the Workers' Party, which he is still part of today. There were thousands of supporters here in the crowd cheering him on, and much of his speech not only referenced workers and his support of them over the years, but also sovereignty, the fact that he will not let anyone interfere in Brazilian affairs. And I think that is undoubtedly a reference to his strong criticism of the United States, the tariffs that the U.S.

2:34has imposed on Brazil, but also the U.S.'s designation of Brazilian gangs as terrorist organizations. President Lula has been pretty clear that he fears the U.S. is going to try and interfere in Brazilian elections and Brazilian affairs more generally, something he accuses his main rival, Flávio Bolsonaro, of encouraging. Flávio Bolsonaro, the son of the former right-wing president Jair Bolsonaro, also launched his campaign today on Copacabana in Rio de Janeiro, his home state. He is certainly campaigning very heavily on a campaign platform saying that he will tackle crime, that he will build mega prisons in Brazil, and yes, that he will also work much more closely with the government of the United States.

3:18He was in Washington lobbying the United States to designate Brazilian gangs as terrorist organizations earlier this year, something which President Lula has been heavily critical about. It is interesting that for a domestic presidential election, this issue of sovereignty, this issue of patriotism, has become such a key campaign issue. President Lula himself came out onto the stage with a huge Brazilian flag, something that for many years was a symbol, if displayed outside someone's home, that they were a supporter of Jair Bolsonaro. Now he is certainly trying to reclaim that image of patriotism, of sovereignty as part of his left-wing campaign in this election.

3:58Ioni Wells with the Lula campaign there. So can Lula persuade the country to stick with him for another term? These voters plan to vote for him.

4:13I think it's very important for us to be here to support him because he always champions causes that benefit us like the minimum wage, tax issues, entrepreneurship We have a lot to show from health to education to culture, infrastructure the work we do with so many sectors of society policies for women and tackling violence. I believe the biggest challenge is the grassroots work, returning to one's roots, defending a sovereign Brazil. Of course, lifting the country out of hunger, just as he has done before. Some views from voters there. Well, I'm delighted to say that Ione Wells joins us live now from Sao Paulo.

5:01Ione, I mean, this is another Lula Bolsonaro standoff. But with a difference this time, what do we know of Flavio Bolsonaro's politics? Does he broadly share his father's views or are there differences? Yeah, I think it's fair to say that he is very much standing on a platform of continuing his father's legacy. In fact, he also launched his campaign today in his home state of Rio de Janeiro on Copacabana, where his father held many rallies. He paid tribute to his father, saying that he was never a threat to democracy, despite the fact that, of course, as you mentioned, Jair Bolsonaro, his father, is currently serving a 27-year prison sentence for plotting a coup after losing the last election.

5:46He promised fairly similar policies to some that we would have expected from his father. He's promised big budget cuts, cutting debt of the government, but also tax cuts as well. He also claimed to be the only one capable of, in his words, sitting down with the United States, a reference there to his meetings with the Trump administration earlier this year, perhaps. He also, interestingly, used the word sovereignty. You heard there in some of my reporting that Lula has been really trying to campaign around this issue of sovereignty, saying that he is the one defending Brazil against any kind of foreign interference.

6:20Interestingly, Flavia Bolsonaro used that word as well today in his speech, but he used it to talk about crime. He said that there was no longer sovereignty over our cell phones, over our cars, over our purses and houses. A reference to, I think, one of the key concerns among Brazilian voters, which is crime and insecurity. And he has promised a very tough crackdown on that, something which has won the right elections elsewhere in Latin America, I think. He has promised tougher sentences, for example, for drug dealers, murderers, cell phone thieves. So I think that is something that he is certainly hoping to make a key central part of his campaign.

6:56And interestingly, the polls are very close already in this campaign. And of course, it was a very close election last time around. Does it suggest that the country actually is really divided on the big issues? Yeah, Brazil has remained really polarised since the last election. I think what we're seeing at the moment, although it's still about two months out from the election, is that, as you say, the polls are very close, although President Lula has been slightly in the lead so far in all of the polls that have taken place. There have been some knocks to Flávio Bolsonaro's campaign, notably some involvement of him, or allegations that he was involved in a recent corruption scandal, something that he denied, but also he had a very public fallout with Jair Bolsonaro's wife, who was a very popular figure on the right here in Brazil, Both of those things, I think, have caused some blows to his campaign, but certainly it is still very, very close.

7:55One big fear among a lot of Brazilians that I speak to is that because it is looking like it could be a close election again, there is concern about what that means after the election as well. Will there be attempts to sow doubt in the results or call fraud? That is certainly already becoming a big concern, given the scenes that we saw after the last election. There's a lot to look out for in this campaign. Ioni Wells, live from Sao Paulo. Thank you very much for joining us there. Well, we can speak now to José Crispignano. He was President Lula da Silva's press secretary from 2023 to 2024, I think, and he joins us live.

8:33José, welcome to the programme. So what are the main issues that you believe President Lula will be fighting on and where are his strengths in this campaign? Good night. I think that President Lula will work to defend his legacy in the government, to discuss Brazilian sovereignty over foreign interference, especially from the United States. There are concerns particularly about the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio. Such as what? Recently, Latin America has seen a participation of U.S. vocalization of support towards right-wing candidates in Colombia, in Peru. And there are concerns that this will happen also in Brazil.

9:27In some sense, it's already happening since the Trump administration had received Flávio Bolsonaro in Washington. So when Mr. Lula came to power last time, he was standing on the issue of trying to improve the economy. And there has been some growth in the economy over the past four years. But a lot of people actually do feel poorer because of inflation, especially on things like food. And there's also been, as I only mentioned, there's some scandals around corruption. It does seem as if Mr. Lula will have to rely on his personal appeal with the voter. And he's already 80. Do you think it's enough?

10:10Lula has a lot of energy. In some sense, it's a rematch of the last election because polls show that nine out of ten people that vote for Lula are declaring to vote him again, while nine out of ten people that vote for Jair Bolsonaro are declaring that he will vote in his son. So the group of people who can change from one side to another, it's a very small percentage of Brazilian population. People who vote for Lula are mostly happy with his government. Who vote against him were not conquered for his government, despite the fact that many of his public policies had been recovered. The unemployment rate is low.

10:57the deforestation of Amazon has reduced. So there are a lot of achievements, but the society is kind of stuck since the last election, more or less polarized positions. So you're his former press secretary and obviously, you know, key, would have been key to his policy and, you know, kind of, you know, the campaigning. to be in a position so close in the polls already going into this election. For the incumbent, that's not a good position, is it? That's the pen, because as the government, he has an opportunity to show what he's done and build regional alliance. In the previous election, Lula was way ahead of Bolsonaro, and Bolsonaro from the government position got real close to Lula in the final days.

11:53So the hope is that Flávio Bolsonaro from outside the government cannot repeat this move to surpass Lula from outside the government. Very briefly, Mr. Lula was speaking today about foreign interference. What is he going to do? How is he going to combat the interests of outside Brazil having an impact on this election? He had publicly declared that he wants to speak directly with Trump because it's perceived that something that comes less from Trump and more from Marco Rubio, who has a very special attention on Latin America. So I think that he wants to straight the regulations around elections, the oversight of the judiciary in Brazil over election, and also to speak directly with Trump about this subject.

12:45He feels that he has better relations with Trump than with Marco Rubio. We must leave it there. Jose, good to speak to you. Thanks so much for joining us. That's Jose Crispiniano, their former press secretary for President Lula.

13:01Coming up later on the programme, some social media influencers are coming under fire for filming themselves with sharks and endangering their lives, as well as the sharks. We'll hear from some of them. My intent with all of my content has never been to gain views. It's to gain protection for sharks. I'm not actually harming the shark. All of my work and what I share is respecting and observing from a distance. More of that to come. Our headlines this hour as we've been hearing the main contenders to become the next president of Brazil, The incumbent, Lula da Silva, and his right-wing challenger, Flavio Bolsonaro, are opening their campaigns with rallies in Sao Paulo and Rio today.

13:43And President Sun's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, is reported to have met the Hamas leader as part of continuing negotiations on the future of Gaza.

14:00You're with NewsHour Live from the BBC. I'm Rebecca Kesby. Rescue workers in Indonesia say they're still not sure how many people are missing following the major earthquake off the coast of the island of Flores yesterday. We know at least 50 people have been killed, but landslides have hampered efforts to reach affected areas. Indonesia is part of the Pacific's so-called ring of fire, a geologically active area that regularly experiences earthquakes and volcanoes. But people on Flores Island say the authorities weren't ready with aid after the earthquake. Budget cutbacks mean that some have told the BBC's local reporters that they're worried about medical and food supplies.

14:41The island's hardest hit by the quakes are normally popular with tourists who come for volcanic crater lakes, scuba diving, and also to visit the nearby Komodo National Park, home of the Komodo dragons, the world's largest lizards. My colleague Celia Hatton has been speaking with Jerome Wirawan from the BBC's Indonesia service in Jakarta. The people in Flores Island definitely have been panicking because yesterday's earthquake really evoking some bad memories because in 1992, there had been a massive earthquake in Flores Island, causing at least 2 ,500 people killed. With that in mind, they ran panically yesterday, and at least 5 ,000 of Flores Island residents are still living in temporary shelters.

15:33Your colleagues from BBC Indonesia have been doing some reporting on the scene. They have photographs from this scene of people who were pulled out of a hospital and are still just being treated in what looks to be almost a field. Can you tell me about the situation for those people who've been interviewed by your colleagues? As a matter of fact, there are at least three main hospitals in Flores Islands that have been sustaining severe damage. One of the hospitals we've been interviewing says that the earthquake left the facility barely functional and the roof and several walls collapsed and putting key departments out of service, including operating theatres, the pharmacy and laboratory.

16:23Hospital staff have responded by setting up temporary tents while scrambling to create makeshift treatment rooms for patients requiring urgent care. One of the evacuees, I mean, away from the hospitals, thousands of survivors remain in temporary shelters. One of the evacuees saying they're increasingly anxious because they're still waiting for food and essential supplies. One of the evacuees voiced frustration saying, we need the government to send help immediately. It won't be the earthquake that kills us, but the lack of food. Indonesia's in the Pacific Ring of Fire. It deals with earthquakes on a regular basis.

17:08It also has some of the best rescue teams in the world. How to account then for this gap in help from the authorities? We have a plethora of natural disasters in Indonesia. One of them is earthquake. Yes, we do have some of the best teams, responding teams that also have given seminars in several countries. However, the very fast region of Indonesia, to illustrate this, I give you the example from the western point to the eastern point of Indonesia, it's basically as if a point taken from Lisbon to St. Petersburg in Russia. So that's how fast Indonesia is. So that's been a challenge for us in years.

17:54Meeting those challenges has been really tough, especially in recent years, because the institutions, the search and rescue agency and disaster mitigations have seen their budget have been cut by the government to implement austerity measures in some of the institutions. That's Jerome Wirawan from the BBC's Indonesian service updating us earlier today.

18:25Now then, you either love or hate this sound.

18:35The lovely sound of the noble bagpipes. A few of my colleagues take a different view from me, but the bagpipes are most often associated with Scotland, of course, but actually thought to have originated in the ancient Middle East. A simple instrument using animal skins and reed pipes which caught on across Europe and eventually became the Great Highland Bagpipe we know today, which is actually played all over the world. This weekend, a pipe band from Canada won the World Pipe Band Championship in Glasgow. It's the first time a band outside the UK has won in about 16 years, but there were contestants from all over France, Australia, Oman, even Malaysia.

19:16And the winning team was the Simon Fraser University Pipe Band from Vancouver. I've been speaking to pipe major Alan Bevan. So how does victory feel? It's still sinking in, to be honest. It's just a huge emotional rollercoaster we've been on the last couple of days. The standard I don't think has ever been higher. It's just really, really tight up at the top, echelons of the grape. And so can you explain for us what the judges are looking for in terms of what makes a really good pipe band? I guess the overall thing is that they're looking for a band that sounds all like one instrument. Most of what the piping is playing is unison.

20:04so you've got you know anywhere from say 15 to maybe 21 or 22 pipers all trying to play and sound like one and then the accompaniment and sort of enhancement from the drum corps is also judged so there's two piping judges who look after the piping there's a drumming judge and then there's a fourth judge who judges the whole band as an ensemble and just is listening for how seamlessly everything's integrated. But I mean, it's quite a complicated instrument too, isn't it? Because obviously, you've got the sort of piping element, which and forgive me, because I'm not a piper. But I mean, that might be similar to something like a clarinet or a recorder, something like that.

20:45But you're also you've got the pumping action to get the wind into the bag, which is you're doing sort of several things at once? Well, it's a very physical instrument, both in terms of kind of your endurance to actually play the things, but also, as you pointed out, the coordination of maintaining a steady pitch.

21:11You know, you're blowing into the bag and then when you take a breath, your arm is squeezing the bag to keep the air pressure constant so that the pitch doesn't change. And really good players, you won't be able to tell if they're blowing or squeezing or transitioning between the two. You get one nice steady sound. And ideally you want 15 to 21 people all doing that so that the tone is perfectly steady and tuneful. And so let's just say if you weren't a very good player, is that where the sort of squeaky element can come in? It can. It's like I say, it's a very difficult instrument to play and it's not when you can kind of just buy at the store and hire somebody to tune it for you.

21:49You know, a huge part of the challenge is actually producing a great sound and keeping all four reeds in each set of bagpipes in tune. There's a lot of tuning involved. Most competitive bands probably spend about an hour on the day of the competition tuning and preparing for a four to seven minute event that they're playing. And I mentioned right at the top of this, some people love the sound of the bagpipes. I'm one of them. Not everybody does love the sound of the bagpipes, though we've had some discussions about it in the office today. How do you feel when you hear the pipes? It's always grabbed me.

22:29I've always loved the sound of the bagpipes. And that's, I think, why my parents steered me towards a teacher. I was very fortunate. There was a really strong piping culture on the west coast of Canada. A lot of piping runs in families. We have a lot of family members represented in the band. My wife, Bonnie, she's been playing in the band longer than I have. And our two sons are playing with us yesterday and the day before. Pipe major Alan Bevan there from Vancouver and congratulations to him. Welcome back to NewsHour. And as we've been hearing in the news while we've been on air, the Women's Africa Cup of Nations final has been underway in Morocco, Cameroon versus Malawi.

23:14Cameroon have made it to the final before, but not for years. Malawi, though, are the rookies. They've never even been to the WAFCON tournament before and are ranked 153rd in the world. Let's cross live to the BBC Sports' Maz Farouki, who's watching the game in the Moroccan capital, Rabat. Maz, what's going on? Have we got a score? We do. And if you're a Cameroon fan, it's a very pleasing score. 3-0, they lead Malawi with about 20 minutes to go over the 90 in this Women's Africa Cup of Nations final here in Rabat. And it has been a really accomplished and professional performance from Cameroon.

23:51We've talked all tournament about the Chwinga sisters for Malawi. Nine goals between them. Well, they have been kept very, very quiet by this Cameroon side tonight. Two goals for Marie Ngar, one for Naomi Eto 'o in the first half. And they have been absolutely sublime. A word on Monique Ngok, the holding midfielder. She is having a brilliant tournament. She's having a brilliant night. and their goalkeeper as well, Michele Behina. Those are the two players, really, who have been the star of this Cameroon side at this tournament and have been the stars of this final as well, as they're looking likely now to lift their first ever Women's Africa Cup of Nations trophy.

24:24Yes, Cameroon really does have the upper hand at the moment. But, I mean, it's fair to say, Maz, isn't it, that no one actually really expected these two teams to make it to the final. A hundred percent. We did not expect at all this to be the final line-up. I remember standing in the mixed zone with a lot of the journalists after the semifinals on Wednesday and saying, truth time, who here picked Cameroon and Malawi as our two sides? As you say, Malawi ranked 153rd in the mood. Cameroon only got into this Women's Africa Cup of Nations tournament when it was expanded from 12 teams to 16 teams at the end of last year.

25:01So they only got in as a lucky loser. So both these sides really not expecting to be in this position. But unfortunately, tonight, it just feels like it's a step too far for Malawi. It does seem so. But you mentioned earlier, your line dropped out just a little bit. The two sisters, Tabitha and Temwa, I think it's Chawinga. Is that right? I mean, they've been fantastic. They have. They've got nine goals between them, five for Temwa, four for her older sister, Tabitha, who's the Malawi skipper as well. They have had so much pace throughout this Cup of Nations, but that's what's been really impressive about this Cameroon performance tonight.

25:35They have really analysed where Malawi have been dangerous in this tournament. And they've really been able to break down their play every time they get the ball forward. Malawi, they're trying to find the two Chawinga sisters. They haven't been able to do so. And it just feels like this is Cameroon's time. They haven't been in this final for a decade. They've lost three previous Cup of Nations finals to Nigeria. But it looks like now in the next 15 minutes or so, So they are going to be the side celebrating first time that they're going to have this name on this trophy. And of course, both these sides will be at the Women's World Cup in 10 months time in Brazil as well.