Donald Trump pays tribute to late politician Lindsey Graham

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. How has America shaped the world? I'm Asma Khaled, host of the Global Story podcast from the BBC. As the United States marks its 250-year anniversary, we've been exploring the surprising and often hidden ways the US has shaped the modern world. And today on the show, we answer your questions about this moment and what to expect in the years to come. From the BBC, it's the United States at 2.50. Listen to The Global Story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:43Hello and welcome to NewsHour. It's coming to you live from the BBC World Service studios in central London. I'm Tim Franks. Coming up on the programme, the US says it's open, Iran says it's closed. We'll look at the latest clashes, verbal and military, over the Strait of Hormuz in about 15 minutes. But first, one of the big figures of US politics, the Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, has died at the age of 71. His office issued a statement just saying that he'd suffered a brief and sudden illness. Graham was seen as an old-school hawkish Republican, a senator who backed a pugnacious interventionist foreign policy when it came to Ukraine and to Iran.

1:21He was also seen as a close ally of Donald Trump. Speaking on NBC's Meet the Press on Sunday morning, Washington time, President Trump said that he'd spoken on the phone to Lindsey Graham on Saturday evening and had heard the news of his death just a few hours later. I got a message about one o 'clock in the morning from one of the people at his office that he had passed away. I said, you guys, I just can't believe it. He was like a member of the family to me. It's very tough, actually. He was such an advocate. it. If he wanted to get something, and you know, he had a unique ability, he was able to deal with Democrats and Republicans.

1:56If I had a problem, a real problem, I wouldn't often ask. But if I had a problem with a Democrat, he could work it out. He was a great politician, actually. It had, though, been a relationship with his bumps, as we'll hear. Recently, though, they had been very close. This was Lindsey Graham extolling the president just after securing the nomination earlier this year to seek a fifth term in office as the Republican candidate for candidate for the Senate seat in South Carolina in the forthcoming midterm elections. I want to start with President Donald J. Trump. I just talked to him so I know he's watching.

2:34Mr. President, when you endorsed me early on, it changed everything. You're the gold standard in the Republican world, the most consequential endorsement, I think, in the history of politics. And when you spoke, the people of South Carolina listened. And President Trump, I'm coming back to the Senate in 27. I'm going to win in November. I'm going to help you change this world and change this country. Senator Graham was a hugely experienced as well as influential Washington politician, first elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 1994 before getting his Senate seat, which he'd held since 2002, rising to become chairman of the Senate Budget Committee.

3:14But as I mentioned, the praise you just heard pour on the president wasn't always the tone he struck. In the 2016 presidential election, Donald Trump's first victory, Lindsey Graham announced that he'd voted for the independent candidate, Evan McMullin. The senator did then swing behind President Trump before, in the wake of Mr Trump's refusal to accept the 2020 election defeat and the subsequent invasion of Capitol Hill by his supporters. on January 6th, 2021, Lindsey Graham said it's over. Trump and I, we've had a hell of a journey. I hate it being this way. Oh, my God, I hate it. From my point of view, he's been a consequential president.

3:51But today, first thing you'll see, all I can say is count me out. Enough is enough. But then, as Donald Trump began campaigning for a second term, the pair reconciled again. As I mentioned, Lindsey Graham had a reputation for championing a traditional Republican view of a bold outward facing posture for the US in foreign policy. Just last week, he was in Ukraine meeting President Zelensky. I'm pleased to announce as of about 30 minutes ago, we've reached agreement with the White House on a version of the Russian sanctions bill that they will support. It means it's going to become law. So when I get back to Washington, I'm going to go with Senator Blumenthal to the Republican and Democratic leader to see if we can find time to move this Russian sanctions package that would give tools to President Trump to help end this war.

4:55John Bolton was Donald Trump's national security advisor until he was fired during the president's first administration. He was also firmly of the same wing of the Republican Party as Lindsey Graham. So what will he remember as a senator? Well, it's very sad, obviously, totally unexpected. I've known Lindsey for about 25 years, if not more. Worked with him on many national security issues over that period of time in his partnership with John McCain and Joe Lieberman. Worked with him extensively when I was national security advisor in the first Trump term. He was somebody who believed in a strong, robust American foreign policy because he believed it was in our national interest to protect ourselves and our friends around the world.

5:40And it's a voice that will be sorely missed. He did absolutely represent that sort of that traditional strand of the Republican Party, one traditional strand, which was for a muscular American presence in the world. It feels as if that was a bit of a throwback, given the temper of much of this Trump administration. What do you think it was that meant that he nonetheless managed to sort of get the president's ear? Well, he was very rare in being able to talk to Trump and give him candid advice. He started in 2016 from a position very opposed to Trump. But I can tell you from my own experience as national security advisor on questions like Afghanistan and Iran that he played an important role in presenting what I think is the correct side of the argument to Trump.

6:38And Trump himself has no philosophy, so a lot depends on who has his ear. And with Lindsey now sadly gone, that's one less sound voice that will be talking to Trump. I wonder what you made of his approach, though, because as you say, I mean, he was he poured scathing criticism all over Donald Trump in the run up to the 2016 presidential election. Didn't even vote for him, called him the world's biggest jackass, a race baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot. And, you know, Donald Trump returned the favor, calling him a disgrace and dumb and so forth. but Lindsey Graham ended up being extremely complimentary to Donald Trump and I just wonder what you made of Lindsey Graham's approach.

7:26I mean effective but do you think that it was it came at a bit of a cost? Well Lindsey's a politician and he wanted to be re-elected in 2020. He wanted to be re-elected in November. It's a mark of Trump's aberrational influence on the party that fewer people in Congress didn't speak up against him when he was pursuing policies they knew were wrong. Everybody's got to make their own judgment of what they want to do. What I can say about Lindsay is that he never let his principles be compromised. Yeah, although I suppose some people might say, well, one of those principles is you stand up for what matters.

8:06And perhaps, you know, what matters is your opinion of somebody. and the sort of person that they are. And Donald Trump obviously has his fervent supporters, but he does also have his trenchant critics. And, you know, perhaps Lindsey Graham was willing to swallow that in pursuit of, who knows, I mean, maybe proximity to power. Or getting reelected. He had a primary opponent in South Carolina earlier this year who said that Lindsey was not a real MAGA Trumper. And Lindsay was able to call on Trump himself to say, no, actually, Lindsay's OK. And he won his primary. He certainly would have won in November.

8:46That's politics. May I ask just one final question, if you don't mind? I mean, I don't think that we've had the chance to speak to you since you pleaded guilty in court about three weeks ago or so to the mishandling of classified security information during your time as National Security Advisor. There's a you are awaiting sentencing that's due to happen towards the end of this year. Donald Trump has weighed in, perhaps predictably to say hopefully he will be dealt with harshly speaking of you. If I can ask sort of what your thoughts are at this time, given that this has been something that obviously has been hanging over you for quite some time now.

9:29Well, Trump's comment is typical of the man. But as I have throughout, I just can't comment on the case. I'd love to discuss it at some point, but this is not that time. And that was John Bolton paying tribute in the main to Lindsey Graham's career. Friday will mark the 19th anniversary of the start of the three-year-long Spanish Civil War fought between the nationalists, the Spanish dictator Francisco Franco, and left-wing Republicans. The conflict may have ended just before the outbreak of the Second World War. The divisions are still being argued over today. High in the mountains outside Madrid stands the Valley of the Fallen, a huge memorial site commissioned by Franco where tens of thousands of war-deads still lie buried.

10:13For the BBC, William Crawley has been exploring the site and its continuing controversies. That's the cross over there in the hills. How far away is that? That must be... We must be five kilometres away. So it is a gargantuan cross that we can see, even at this distance, It's surrounded by mountains, but the cross stands out very clearly. But it's apparently bigger than or taller than the Statue of Liberty. You have this enormous rock and carved inside it is the Basilica itself. And with this enormous colonnaded granite entrance with a sculpture of Jesus and Mary the Peta above the entrance to it, which takes you into not only the Basilica, but what was once the mausoleum for Franco.

11:03Indeed. Franco's remains are no longer there. They've been removed. And then later, the remains of José Antonio, the phalangist leader, who was buried opposite Franco. Those two tombs, which were the only marked tombs in the entire structure, they've been removed. What remains, it's estimated up to 30 ,000 corpses or body parts that were scooped up off the battlefields of the Spanish Civil War, and that is what the relatives now want to try and reclaim. One of the bodies sealed behind these walls belongs to Silvia Navarro's great-uncle, a Catholic businessman, not a soldier. He was killed simply for being a Republican sympathiser.

11:44We found out that the remains had been transferred to the Valley of the Fallen in April 1959 without the consent or even the knowledge of their families. Sylvia wants her great-uncle's remains removed from this site. The current government's plan is to try to change the meaning of the valley by reimagining it away from its original Francoist propaganda. They've already officially renamed the site after the natural valley where it sits, Quelgamoras. The minister who leads the strategy is also a professional historian, Secretary of State Fernando Martínez López. Well, the project to reinterpret the meaning of the valley of Cuelgamuros has been approved.

12:30In the valley, as in the whole of Spain, all Franky's reference will be removed. Not every historian agrees that the valley of the fallen should be reimagined. The pushback isn't only academic. It's also coming from the political right. Esperanza Aguirre, who led Madrid's regional government for nearly a decade under the Conservative Popular Party, wants the government to leave the valley as it is. This is the second biggest basilica in the world and what they want is to take out the cross. The cross is one of the biggest in the world and I am, as Catholic, and there are many Catholics in Spain, why do we have to convert that in a museum of the civil war.

13:13In the end, the valley's struggle to settle its own meaning is really the whole country's struggle to settle its past. And that report from Spain by William Crawley. You're listening to NewsHour from the BBC.

13:35Coming up on the programme, the last woman to be hanged in the UK, Ruth Ellis, has been granted a posthumous conditional pardon. When she was executed in 1955, she was mother to two young children. We'll hear from her granddaughter. You can't even begin to imagine what those two children must have gone through and the impact it had on their mental health. Ultimately, my uncle committed suicide and my mother led a life of chaos. She died at the age of 50. The ripple effect is still being felt today. It's been two generations. We are still feeling the impact of the shame and embarrassment that ultimately we all grew up with.

14:12That interview coming up in 30 minutes. Main headline this hour, as I mentioned early on in the programme, at least 27 people have been killed in a massive fire at a bar in the Thai capital, Bangkok. And the US and Iran have continued to trade strikes over the Strait of Hormuz.

14:36This is NewsHour, live from the BBC with me, Tim Franks. Lindsey Graham was one of those close to President Trump urging to, as he put it, finish the job in Iran and employ America's full military might, should Iran continue to be, in his word, provocative. Well, overnight, the US launched its third round of strikes after Iran had hit a ship in the Strait of Hormuz. Iran then attacked US targets across the region, including Oman, and that in turn prompted an unusual protest from Oman, summoning the Iranian ambassador to complain at the assault on its territory. I've been speaking to the Omani international relations analyst, Professor Abdullah Barboud, who's in the Omani capital, Muscat.

15:17Oman has been trying very, very hard to ensure that this conflict is resolved through dialogue and negotiations and diplomacy. And fortunately, while Oman was doing that, the United States attacked Iran twice. And Iran has developed a very strong lack of trust in the United States and what is going on. So what they have done now is that since Oman opened this corridor, as it were, for commercial shipping on its own water, I think that lack of trust extended not just to the U.S., but to anyone in the region. And they have their own justifications for doing that. We in the region don't accept it.

16:06Oman has been very patient with the Iranians, trying to keep the good neighborly relations, keep the dialogue, etc. But I think this particular incident and this particular episode now has driven Oman to take a stand and quite a substantial stand. But I don't think this is going to push Oman in any direction. For the Gulf states, they don't want to be part of this conflict. They never wanted it. We want this conflict to be resolved through dialogue, through negotiation, through diplomacy. And I think all the Gulf states, Oman included, will push for this, despite their message to the Iranians.

16:49Professor, you said towards the start of that answer that you thought it was unfortunate that the US had attacked Iran. The US has said that the only reason it launched these strikes earlier in the week was because Iran had itself targeted shipping going through the Strait of Hormuz. Does the US not have a point here that it wants to preserve freedom of navigation? If you talk to both sides, each one of them will have a point and have an interpretation of clause five, I believe, of the MOU. Point five of the Memorandum of Understanding, which is all about the Strait of Hormuz and which has this line saying the Islamic Republic of Iran will make arrangements using its best efforts for the safe passage of commercial vessels from the Persian Gulf to the Sea of Oman.

17:44I mean, it's vague, isn't it, that language? It's very vague. It's very vague. And I think this is one of the issues that has risen, that both sides understand it in a different way or interpret it in a different way, intentionally or unintentionally. For Iran, I believe that they think that they have opened the strait and ships can still go through, but under their control for the 60 days to ensure that there is not going to be any attack. Oman saw it, that since the MOE was signed, that we can now open another, if you like, route. And I think they were encouraged by the United States, perhaps the IMO, the International Maritime Organization, and perhaps the Iranians read it completely different.

18:36That maybe Oman is siding here with the Americans or with the IMO and they're trying to go beyond what we had intended. It's very difficult to judge. There are so many things that we don't understand in this conflict and I don't think we will ever be able to understand and the decision-making in Iran is very, very difficult to judge. And that was Professor Abdullah Bambood speaking to me from the Omani capital, Muscat. Now to tennis and the sound of small furry objects being hit really, really hard.

19:14How about that? How about that? Sweet, Sina. Another forehand, crushed.

19:27four sets of compelling tennis to finish up Wimbledon 20-26. The moment is brought to you here on the BBC World Service just over an hour ago when the world number one Yannick Sinner successfully defended his men's singles title at Wimbledon. The Italian beat Germany's Alexander Zverev to take the fifth Grand Slam of his career. Zverev had begun the match strongly, winning the first set before Sinner took back control and watching it all was the former British number one tennis player, Joe Durie. Joe, very good of you to join us after what's been a pretty demanding weekend, because you were heavily involved in the women's singles final as well.

20:08But what did you make of the game? Yeah, it was a fabulous match and it was very well contested. I think Zverev couldn't have played any better than he did in that first set. It was just tremendous. His forehand was just outrageous at times, how hard he was hitting it. But gradually, Sinner stayed consistently at his level and Zverev just dipped below. That was in the third set, I think sort of three or four, three round there. He just felt that Sinner was taking control again. And he was just that little bit too good in the end. Am I right in saying, heaven knows why I called it a game, of course it's a match, but am I right in thinking, I wasn't watching it quite as closely as you, given that there was a news programme to get on air, but it felt as if the match sort of improved as it went on, I mean, into its fourth hour.

21:08I mean, the penultimate point, I think, was the longest rally of the entire match. And it just felt as if it was just all going maybe a little bit too predictably with serve, but then sort of hit its straps. I think at the end, those last few games when Zverev, he knew he had to raise his level of play again. And he was desperately trying to do that and get back at Sinner. And some of those points were just tremendous. I mean, they both are such great athletes. The way they slide on the grass. I mean, I never did that when I played. I would have just fallen over. But they managed to stay balanced and get back.

21:49And, you know, it was going to and fro. But I just thought that, you know, Sinner just had those answers at the end and was a little bit better. He got a rapturous reception. Most Wimbledon champions do. He won his second championship back-to-back without Carlos Alcaraz, his great rival who's currently injured. I mean, in the sort of pantheon of men's tennis right now, how popular, how big a deal is Yannick Sinner? Well, you know, world number one at the moment with Alcaraz slightly injured. I mean, he'll be back in the summer, I'm sure, at the US Open. but those two I think are head and shoulders above everyone else I would put Djokovic and Zverev just below them and then you kind of got the rest of the top 10 so at the moment Sinner and Akaraz are the ones to beat they bring their game and the others are trying to find a way to beat them because what they do is just so consistently good it's just I mean it's out of this world sometimes.

23:03And just in a sentence or two if you would how was the 2026 Wimbledon vintage for you? Yeah I thought it was fabulous two weeks actually it was loads of stories and got Arthur Ferry who did so brilliantly and got us all going lovely to see a Brit in the semi-finals but there were plenty of well-contested matches and that's what you want at Wimbledon. Indeed. Joe Jury former British number one Thank you very much for joining us. You're listening to NewsHour.

23:58but not well. From the BBC, it's the United States at 2.50. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to NewsHour. Two records to tell you about in women's cricket, cricket even. One to be proud of, one not so much. The source of pride is that India's 22-year-old sensation Kranti Gord has made history as the first woman to earn a place on the Test Honours board for stellar individual performances at Lord's, the ground in north-west London known as the home of cricket. She did so by claiming five wickets during the first innings against England. And the second record that this was remarkable to say the first women's test, in other words, multi-day format match at Lord's.

24:46I've been speaking to the Indian cricket journalist and commentator Onesha Kosh, who's been watching the game at Lord's. The reason, it's significant of course, this is the first time a woman has gone on to take a test five-wicket haul. But it's also historic because of the story in itself. Granthi God comes from one of the most impoverished parts of central India in fact. And she is an exemplification of that racks to riches trajectory because she was born in a family which could barely afford two square meals a day. She's one of several children to begin with Her father was in the police but lost his job Which left the family in severe financial difficulty And then her mother Neelam She had to pawn her jewellery to keep the household going And also to support her cricket And then for this young woman all of 22 years old To fox the batters Some of the best batters we've seen in women's cricket globally That has been the standout To have that kind of control and efficacy and relentlessness that has been the hallmark of her success.

25:53And that's the reason why she's become the first ever woman to have her name on the iconic Lord's Test Whirling Honours Board. This is what the first women's test that has taken place at Lord's? That's right. It's taking place after 142 years since the first men's test was organised at this very ground. So it is rarer than the Halley's Comet, which happens once in every 76. years. But one can only see the bright side of things because to have this contest staged here means so much for a format. Test cricket still remains a male preserve. And with this being staged, I hope it goes on to change the narrative to some extent.

26:35Yeah. And what have crowds been like? And indeed, not just crowds at Lourdes, but also from what you understand, the audience back home in India. Is there a lot of interest? The attendance that LODs has recorded in the first two days, I think it started off with 10 ,000 plus on day one and then created a world record on day two, which was yesterday. Over 15 ,000 people in attendance, which is the highest ever for a single day in a women's test. I personally believe in the philosophy propagated by the great tennis legend Billie Jean King. You can't be what you can't see. So if you cannot see women dunning whites and playing red ball cricket, how can you expect the audience, of which the majority is comprised of by male watchers in India, how do you expect them to show up in numbers?

27:24So the more it is televised, the greater will be the response from audiences in terms of in-stadia appearances. And that was Ornaysha Kosh. You're with the BBC World Service and this is NewsHour, live from London. Female genital mutilation, FGM, is, as the name implies, mutilation, seen worldwide as a human rights violation. Nonetheless, more than 200 million women and girls are thought to have undergone the cutting of their genitals. In the small West African country of the Gambia, the practice is particularly widespread, despite an official ban that's been in place for more than 10 years. And that legal prohibition is now itself being challenged, with religious leaders and an MP arguing in the Supreme Court for it to be overturned on the basis that it violates constitutional rights to cultural and religious freedom.

28:19Fatou Baldez, one of those who's been arguing in court against them. She's the founder and CEO of a group called Women in Liberation and Leadership, and she spoke to me from The Gambia. I was between the age of seven and eight when I was caught. I remember I was taken to my uncle's house. I was told we were going to a family ceremony. And I remember I was dressed up, my hair was made nicely. I was very excited to see all my cousins. And after arrival, I realized that we were all put in one long line, several girls of us, at least 10 of us. We were all blindfolded. All I remember is hearing each girl that went in screaming and coming out.

29:07And when it was my turn, I was taken into this area where I was pinned down on the floor and then my genitals were cut. I was screaming. And I remember after the procedure, when I was taken out of that place, when I was carried, I was forced reminded that I should never speak about what had happened to me. That if I had explained anything about that procedure, that the old woman that caught me would come back and caught me again. I remember bleeding heavily and I remember the old women taking some herbs and putting it around my genitals and also covering it with a cloth so that the bleeding would stop.