Fear in Bordeaux with wildfire 15km from city outskirts

0:02Hello and welcome to NewsHour live from the BBC World Service in London. I'm Rebecca Kesby and we begin the programme today in Western Europe where firefighters and local authorities are bracing for yet another heatwave. Already multiple wildfires are burning across France and Spain but with temperatures of over 40 degrees, that's 104 Fahrenheit expected in the coming hours. There are fears now that a bad situation could be about to get worse. In France, the wine-growing region of Bordeaux in the southwest is particularly badly affected. Now there are warnings that firefighters could be battling a pyrocumulonimbus, which is a giant fire cloud that can create its own weather system and lightning storms.

0:50More on that in a moment. First, the BBC's Sarah Rainsford has the details on the battle against the flames in both France and Spain, where more than 325 ,000 people have already been displaced.

1:06the fire they're battling in southwestern france is the country's worst in decades in the gironde region around bordeaux the military are now helping firefighters and police but still struggling to bring the flames under control this firefighter says what they're facing is unusual a fire that speeds up then slows down moves left then right, he says. It is very hard to read.

1:40Locals are pitching in, trying to protect property and land. Using tractors with water tanks or just buckets, attempting to dampen down smaller fires before they can take hold. It makes you want to cry. Honestly, it's horrible. We're overwhelmed. The firefighters are doing what they can, but there aren't enough resources. So we're helping them. But honestly, it's hard. It's really hard.

2:11Because every time one fire is doused, it seems there are more sparks.

2:20Tens of thousands of people have had to abandon their homes for camp vets in sports centres and in schools.

2:30Michelle left Arkashan on the coast on Friday and says the road back is now impassable. She had been hoping to go home today, but the fire is still spreading.

2:46The mayor of Bordeaux has stressed reports the city itself is being evacuated are false. But France's interior minister called conditions unfavourable, and a regional official has warned tourists to stay away or to leave until this fire has been contained.

3:10In Spain, there are now a dozen fires blazing, including new ones near Valencia, where helicopters have been shuttling through thick grey smoke to empty sacks of water onto the flames. Outside Madrid, the immediate danger seems to have eased, but the interior minister called the fires there the most aggressive Spain has ever seen. And the prime minister, Pedro Sánchez, warned of difficult hours ahead. He said the flames had already torched six times more land than last year. One reason is all the vegetation produced by a very wet winter that's made more fuel for fires when the summer is as dry and as hot as this one.

4:00Michael Byrne is a climate scientist at St Andrews. It's really the perfect storm for wildfires and why we are very confident as climate scientists that this threat of wildfires is really only going to go one way and that way is more severe, unfortunately. In Spain and in France, the word used most often for these fires is unpredictable. And this week, once again, the temperature is expected to rise. That's the BBC's Sarah Rainsford with that report. We can speak live now to Rebecca Papin, who's actually American, but on holiday in France at the moment. She's staying in her holiday home in Biscarros, which is about 65 miles southwest of Bordeaux.

4:47She's there with her two children. Rebecca, we spoke to you actually on Saturday when you'd been evacuated. What are your circumstances now? Well, the situation has improved slightly in that 8 ,000 of the 27 ,000 evacuated people from Biscarros have returned to the city. and I've actually seen my neighbor across the street return and the neighbor behind me. So there are at least two other people that have returned after I've been alone for days on my street and maybe in my neighborhood. And do you feel safe where you are at the moment? I feel safe where I am because the fire has not come into the city center.

5:26It's moving to the north right now and to the south. It's not coming towards my city. It's going away from it. It's going in towards Bordeaux. I think it's about 10 or 15 miles away from Bordeaux. And it's going up to the north and down to the south, but it's not actively coming into the city centre of Biscarossa at the moment. Well, that sounds very reassuring. But Rebecca, when we spoke to you on Saturday, you told us about your experience of having to get out from where you were then and whether or not you had sufficient warning. Can you tell us what happened? so early on Friday morning I was asleep when they evacuated the city I had an earplugs because I'm a very light sleeper and I just wanted to catch a few hours of sleep before whatever came next and I missed the evacuation orders and on Friday morning a police officer came to my home when I woke up and opened the shutters and told me that at that point I had to shelter in place that I could no longer leave and that was the last communication that I've had with anyone from the French government and that was on Friday morning and the main roads out of the city remain impassable and on fire.

6:28So I remain in my house. That's very frightening. How are you dealing with it? And how are you explaining it to your children? I'm very calm. The situation is out of my control. I know that the French government is doing their best to fight the fires. I know that other countries have sent water planes and have sent soldiers and firefighters to help. And I'm very calm because I have faith that they're going to do a wonderful job at getting the fire contained. But I can't control the situation. All I can control is myself and I'm staying calm for my children so that they remain calm. And very briefly, do you have enough supplies to keep you going for a little while?

7:02Yes. So I ran out of food yesterday at lunch, right as the French government opened the supermarket at my house for a couple of hours. So I walked to the supermarket with my children because my road is barricaded with a metal barrier. No one can enter or exit my street. So I walked down the street to the supermarket, which is about a five minute walk from here and I was able to get groceries. We were the only civilians there. It was just me and the French military, which was a really surreal experience. I did not enjoy that. But we were able to get groceries and to return. Good to speak to you, Rebecca.

7:37Do stay safe. That's Rebecca Papin there, just southwest of Bordeaux. Well, we can get a bit more on the science behind these fires now. And in particular, the phenomena of the so-called fire clouds that I mentioned, They have been seen in Australia before and a couple of times in North America, but it's a very new type of wildfire in Europe. NASA describes them as a fire-breathing dragon of clouds. Rick McRae is an adjunct professor from the University of New South Wales and is a bushfire specialist. He's been telling us more about them. Well, it's a smoke plume that brews up a large thunderstorm inside the plume.

8:17These things become very big. They can affect over 10 ,000 cubic kilometres of the atmosphere. So there's a lot of smoke being pumped up, up to 15 kilometres or more above the ground, into the stratosphere quite often. Wow. So into the next layer of the atmosphere. They're massive things. They can do things like form a tornado. We had the first confirmed pyro-tornado genesis event in Canberra in 2003. they can generate their own lightning and that can start new fires downwind as the thunderstorm blows away from its source fire. But the key thing is, if you see these, it's a sign that the fire underneath has gone very, very dangerous and that it's a good time not to be there.

9:08Absolutely. So in terms of how they're caused, obviously wildfires are a natural phenomenon. Australia is very used to dealing with them. But what are we seeing here with these fire clouds, these enormous clouds? Why are they forming now? Well, the feature of a normal fire is they spread across the landscape as a line of fire, and that reflects the weather, the terrain and the fuel. But we've identified a number of events, seven types of events, in which the fire transitions to being a whole area of light at the one time, and that causes interactions with the air above and it can cause feedback loops with the fire itself.

9:47And this changes the dynamics of the whole situation. In fact, we call it dynamic fire behaviour. And that's where you can get a fire thunderstorm form inside the plume. And you say that they cause their own weather within the fire cloud. So there could be thunderstorms in there, there could be lightning which causes other fires. I mean, they sound pretty dangerous, but why are they so dangerous as such, as opposed to a standard wildfire? The key message is when you see these bad clouds, it is confirming just how bad the fire is. And we don't want things to get that bad because Europe doesn't have a history of that.

10:28So the fire services and the communities don't have a track record of dealing with it. and you've got some heat wave moving through Europe over this week. Tuesday, Wednesday this week, Madrid, Valencia and Bordeaux are areas that are all going to get quite hot and quite dangerous for fires and that's going to move through to the northeast and the east as the week develops. So it could be a very interesting time for Europe as a whole. Professor, is it your understanding that these things are becoming more frequent and I mean have they always existed these fire clouds or are they a new thing? Depends on where you are.

11:08If you're in North America and Siberia there have been a long-term problem. In Australia we first started getting them as a common event at the turn of the century and they're growing exponentially in their frequency here so it's a serious matter. Plus we're seeing parts of the world getting their first every few years. A place like South Africa, South America, Portugal was the first in Europe not that many years ago. Even the tropics are now starting to get pyro-CBs. So it's not just that a place like Australia is getting more and more, more and more places are getting them. And I'd hate to see Central Europe get into this mess over the coming week.

11:52And is it just a case of letting them burn themselves out or hoping for rain or a fire break of some sort? Is there anything that can be done to stop them? Well, what tends to happen is they will burn this feedback loop in place for a few hours and then things will abate. And then you can move in and minimise the damage and if you're lucky you can mop it up and stop the thing spreading again. And the trouble is sometimes you get multiple events across the landscape and then you don't know where it's safe to move in yet. And you've got to wait until things calm down overall. And we've seen about 30 % of them in Australia occur in the middle of the night.

12:39That's Professor Rick McRae, their bushfire specialist from the University of New South Wales. There's much more on this story and the fires in France and Spain on the BBC News website. all the latest updates going straight in there.

12:59Coming up later in the programme, the story of the pop band Wham! When they made history as the first Western band to tour communist China, we'll be hearing from one of the backing singers. For us, the first song, going on stage, seeing the audience, We're usually met with like a barrage of applause and loud screams, but there was nothing. And it was bright lights. We went on stage and we were almost like stopped in our tracks because it was so strange. More on that coming up in a few minutes. Other headlines this hour. India's youth-led protest movement has accused the government of continuing to detain and harass their supporters in breach of the deal to end a dispute over corruption in the education system.

13:47And firefighters in France and Spain are still struggling to contain the spread of unprecedented wildfires.

13:59This is Rebecca Kesby with NewsHour live from the BBC. Now, the Normandy beaches used for the D-Day landings are to be given UNESCO World Heritage status as universal places of remembrance bearing a message of freedom, peace and unity among nations. The Allied offensive in World War II by the US, Britain, Canada and France also involved soldiers from many other countries including Poland, Greece, Australia and Norway. But the site will also commemorate all those who died, including around 200 ,000 German soldiers. Well, Last month, some of the last surviving British veterans commemorated the anniversary of D-Day in Normandy.

14:40100-year-old veteran Kenneth Hay spoke to the BBC about that day in 1944. We have to recognise their sacrifice. And their mates, to most people coming here, there's a series of names. People like myself, some of them were people. I can see the face. You remember incidents and some of the terrible things we saw, how these people's bodies were mutilated. That's what war is. Well, it's unusual to make a battleground a UNESCO site, so why now? Dr Kate Vigas is an author and historian specialising in the Second World War, and she's been explaining why UNESCO has made this decision about the D-Day battlefield site.

15:25They originally thought of them as symbols of division, you know, where something bad happened, people were against one another. They're now saying that the way that the sites have developed, the way we're looking at them, bears a message of freedom, peace and unity among the nations. And I guess that's reflected in the numbers of people who visit these sites from all over the world for various reasons. So the rule has changed. And I, for one, I'm very pleased about it. And how significant is it that German soldiers are also going to be properly commemorated now here at the same site? I think it's a very interesting decision.

16:07And as a historian, you know, it's a slightly contentious one in that the battle was only fought because Europe was under an enemy occupation. That said, the soldiers on the beaches were your ordinary fellows. You know, they weren't fanatical. They weren't SS. These are your normal soldiers. And actually, the more I've thought about it, the more it's right that they are commemorated in this number. they lost their lives to. And many would have been conscripts, of course, as well. Yes, that's right. I mean, a lot of these people had absolutely no choice whatsoever in what they were doing or who they were fighting for.

16:48So officials have said that they're going to improve the information and also signage around the sites. Why is that important? I think that's important for anyone going to the site who maybe doesn't have a broad knowledge of it. And when you know where you're standing, and what happens there, it can have such a profound impact on you. So to improve that signage and visitor information is absolutely phenomenal that they're going to be doing that. Well, I mean, we are in a period in politics now, I guess, where history keeps being dragged up, doesn't it, to justify current policy and ideologies.

17:25So how important is it to make sure people really have an accurate understanding of the past? It's absolutely imperative. You know, the further things get away, the more mythologized they become, the more fictionalized they become. So to have an accurate understanding, as you say, as a historian, you know, my remit is to learn from the past. Stop making the same mistakes. And unfortunately, mankind will always carry on making the same mistakes. But if we can try and caveat that with good information, strong research, telling people exactly what did happen rather than what politicians wanted to think happened, maybe we can influence people's thoughts.

18:06And there are so few remaining veterans of that particular battle still with us. I guess that makes the preservation of this site more important. And do we know how they feel about this new status that these sites will be getting? Their numbers are dwindling massively now. We're talking dozens rather than thousands. I think the veterans will feel that this is a really important thing. There's going to be no more development in the area. Nothing can spring up now. These beaches will be preserved as a site of history and peace and commemoration. That's historian Dr Kate Vigas there. Welcome back to NewsHour.

18:46Coming up later... Oh my God, I'm waiting. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. It's the result that some fans of Gaelic football have waited 75 years for. So has the so-called Mayo curse been lifted? We'll find out in 20 minutes. Also, we'll have a report from the occupied West Bank, where there's been a surge in attacks by Israeli settlers. First, though, there's been a mass shooting at a food festival in the US city of Seattle. near the Space Needle landmark on Sunday evening. At least three people have been killed, five others injured, including a two-year-old boy. One of the people at the festival was 25-year-old Esten Wakanobi, and he told the BBC what happened.

19:31My family and I, my girlfriend, we went to Dubai to Seattle, and basically during the time we were waiting in line for a photo booth, a loud crowd started screaming and stuff. At the same time, you can hear gunshots. I mean, multiple gunshots. And during that time, it was just people running each other over, knocking things over. Baby strollers were falling. A kid got stuck, stepped on. People were just stepping on each other, hiding in bushes. By the time I got to the shooting scene, there was people on the ground, bodies on the ground. One person was doing CPR on one of the victims. other person was taking their clothes off because of the blood, they were bleeding.

20:15Another person was shot in a leg. I mean, it was pretty chaos. I just saw the people that were on the ground, but I did not see the shooter. Well, Assistant Police Chief Tyrone Davis from the Seattle Police Department gave this update. This afternoon, we had officers working our spite of Seattle event. At 6.01 p.m., gunshots were heard. We had officers in the immediate area when these gunshots went off. Officers responded and addressed one of the shooters. That person gave up and was taken into custody. There was another person that we believe that was also involved that fled the scene, and officers began an active search for that person.

20:57He went on to say that two people may have been firing as each other. Washington State has some of the strictest gun laws in the US, but the mayor of Seattle, Katie Wilson, said more needs to be done. I'm sorry that we're having to gather here tonight under these tragic circumstances. What happened here today at the Seattle Centre was an unbelievable tragedy and a horrific act of violence. My heart right now is with the victims and their families and with everyone in our community who is reeling from what happened here today. We have far too much gun violence in this city and in this country. And we're coming off of a week in Seattle where we've had three major incidents of gun violence in just a few days.

21:38We have a lot of work to do as a city and as a country to make this better. That's the mayor of Seattle, Katie Wilson, there, speaking about that incident near the Space Needle landmark on Sunday. Three people have been killed, five others injured in that shooting. One of those injured was just two years old, a little baby there. There's more details on that on the BBC website.

22:13you with news hour live from the bbc i'm rebecca kesby the 26th international aids conference is getting underway in brazil today but there's a specific topic the brazilian government wants to address access to the drug lenacapavir which is made by the pharmaceutical company Gilead. It's a drug given to those who are already HIV positive and those who may be exposed to it as a prophylactic. It's incredibly effective at preventing the disease developing and spreading and unlike other HIV drugs known as PrEP it's a six-monthly injection not a daily pill. Last year Gilead struck a deal with a number of countries to provide it at low cost, particularly in Africa, but no countries in Latin America or the Caribbean region were included in that deal.

23:01In a moment, we'll hear from the Deputy Health Minister of Brazil. First, though, here's Mercy. She's from Kenya and she told the BBC's Focus on Africa podcast why Lena Kapovir injections were better than the pills. One thing about it, it's a self-care method for me. It's making me make informed decisions in regards to my health. I'm able to prevent myself from HIV. I'm able even to have a partner without having the worry of getting infected with HIV. It's very discreet. When you carry the pills, the noise that they make in maybe the containers that you're going to be given in, or if someone sees them in a paper, people will start judging you, especially as a young person and as a young woman.

23:42But once I get my injection, nobody will know. Well, UNAIDS says the annual number of new HIV infections in Latin America increased by 9 % between 2010 and 2023. Brazil has the highest number of people registered as living with HIV in South America. It's about one and a half million. And the government believes that Lena Kapovir could make all the difference. I've been speaking to the deputy health minister, Mary Angela Simau, and she's also a medical doctor. I asked her how concerned she was about the number of HIV cases in the country. I think we've got things under control, but it's important for the whole world to understand that HIV is not over.

24:26Because there's some complacency, not only politically, but on the individual's side as well, right? Because HIV became a treatable disease, it's a chronic disease, but it's better to live without HIV than with HIV, right? So last year, there was a landmark deal struck between a company called Gilead and many countries. And this was to significantly reduce the cost of a key HIV drug, which is Lenacapavir. Now, countries of Latin America were not included in that deal. Why was that? Gilead is a profit, very much profit driven organisation, right, which is OK because it's not Southern NGO or anything.