In short
NewsHour episode covering (1) fears of renewed civil war in Northern Ethiopia’s Tigray region after airport seizures and fighting with federal troops; (2) a Nigeria detention-centre death toll involving suspected illegal minors; (3) Gaza’s proposed US-backed $2.45B “Board of Peace” reconstruction plan amid ongoing Israel-Hamas conflict; plus shorter segments on US press access, Paris archaeology, AI data centres in China, and Oxfam’s rare book find.
Guests
Martin Plout (former BBC World Service; fellow at Institute of Commonwealth Studies, King’s College London; co-author on Ethiopia’s Tigray War). Michael Eisenberg (American-born Israeli venture capitalist; advisor to Israel’s PM; Board of Peace member). Jonathan Kutab (Palestinian lawyer; former international negotiator). BBC chief North America correspondent Gary O’Donohue (live on White House press-pass case). BBC Africa correspondent Medina Maishanu (Nigeria detention report). Archaeologist Lucy Altenberg (Paris dig). Oxfam store manager Olivia Hazeman-Walker (book find).
Key claims & examples
Tigray peace deal failed because Addis Ababa didn’t address Tigrayan concerns; Tigray seeks wider allies including Eritrea, raising regional spillover risks (Sudan war, UAE/Saudi/Egypt arms alignments). Nigeria survivors allege dehydration and denial of water in a cramped NSCDC room; 37 died (foam/bleeding reported), with 24 personnel in custody. Gaza plan requires Hamas disarmament and demilitarization before reconstruction; Eisenberg dismisses dire UN claims, while Kutab argues Israel’s siege prevents board authority and Israel hasn’t met its obligations.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOConflict in Tigray, Ethiopia
1:17 to 1:46
Overview of the Tigray conflict and its implications.
Escalation of Violence in Tigray
1:46 to 3:00
Details on the recent escalations and military actions in Tigray.
“seized control of airports and fought against federal troops in the neighbouring Afar region.”
Concerns from Tigrayan Traders
3:00 to 4:02
Market traders express fears of returning conflict in Tigray.
“that Ethiopia might be sliding back to full civil war, are leading up to this.”
Analysis of the Peace Deal
4:02 to 6:10
Discussion on why the peace deal in Tigray failed and the current situation.
“The two parties in the Ethiopian conflict have formally agreed to the cessation of hostilities as well as to systematic, orderly, smooth and coordinated disarmament.”
Potential for Peace and U.S. Involvement
6:10 to 8:14
Exploration of potential peace efforts and the role of the U.S.
“So you can see you already have tensions there.”
Detention Center Tragedy in Nigeria
8:14 to 9:20
Report on the tragic deaths of detainees in Nigeria's detention center.
“They haven't recognised any legitimacy for the Tigrayans' concerns.”
Investigation into Deaths in Detention
9:20 to 13:35
Details of the investigation following the deaths in detention.
“We've just arrived at a detention centre in Niger State, north central Nigeria, where dozens of suspected illegal minors were held.”
Upcoming Stories and News
13:35 to 14:00
Preview of upcoming stories and news headlines.
“That report from Niger State in Nigeria was by BBC Africa correspondent Medina Maishanu, who was granted exclusive access to that detention facility where 13-7 miners died.”
China's AI Ambitions in Inner Mongolia
14:32 to 20:03
Discover how China is investing in AI infrastructure in Inner Mongolia.
“and a Palestinian response to it in about 15 minutes' time.”
Hidden Treasures: First Edition Book Discovery
20:03 to 23:48
Hear about a valuable first edition of 'To Kill a Mockingbird' found in a charity shop.
“Here now is a story for anyone who's ever dreamed of rifling through a charity shop and finding hidden treasure.”
Show all 16 chapters
Innovative Plastic Desks from Waste in Ghana
24:42 to 28:00
Learn how plastic waste is transformed into school desks in Ghana.
“Welcome back to NewsHour, to Ghana in West Africa now, where an entrepreneur has found a way of solving two problems at once by turning waste plastic packaging into much-needed desks for schools.”
Discussion on the Board of Peace Proposal
28:12 to 34:33
Analysis of President Trump's Board of Peace initiative for Gaza, featuring insights from Michael Eisenberg and Jonathan Kutab.
“President Trump's Board of Peace for Gaza has announced a$2.45 billion recovery plan for the territory at a meeting of its members and stakeholders, which don't include any Palestinians.”
Media Access and Presidential Power
34:33 to 40:30
Discussion about a US court case exploring presidential power over media access, highlighting recent actions by the Trump administration.
“I asked him what he thought of the proposal.”
Trump's Media Ban and Legal Proceedings
42:05 to 44:26
Discussion on President Trump's media ban and the legal arguments surrounding it.
“So the Trump administration couldn't really take people's passes off them, as they had in this case, 78 reporters, and then tell them afterwards the reason why.”
Archaeological Discoveries in Paris
44:26 to 47:36
Exploration of significant archaeological finds in the center of Paris and their historical implications.
“An ancient wall has been discovered during excavations below a hospital on the Ile de la Cité, an island in the Seine that is home to the Notre Dame Cathedral.”
Significance of the Findings
47:36 to 48:46
Insights into the significance of the archaeological discoveries and their impact on understanding Paris's history.
“And we're now saying that we have found traces of occupation that predates the Romans.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
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1:11Hello, welcome to NewsHour from the BBC World Service, coming to you live from London. I'm Paul Henley. Tigray is the northernmost part of Ethiopia in the Horn of Africa, and it's been associated with conflict since November 2020 when a long-standing power struggle between the government and the Tigray People's Liberation Front erupted into open warfare. Two years and more than half a million deaths later, there was a fragile peace deal and the most significant threat to that deal of 2022 might have come today after the same Tigrayan group seized control of airports and fought against federal troops in the neighbouring Afar region.
1:52Are we seeing a return to all-out civil war there? The BBC's Kalkidan Yibeltal, our former correspondent in Ethiopia, has the latest from Nairobi. It's been a day that's been filled with quite significant developments and escalations. First, we've heard that flights have been suspended to all the major airports in the Tigray region. The Ethiopian Airlines said that they are suspending their operations there indefinitely due to what's going on there. And then we've heard that the Grand Forces have captured the main airport in the region's capital, Magali. And then after that, there comes reports that the Grand Forces are announcing they are engaged and they have ordered their troops to engage in combat against the federal forces after accusing the federal forces of launching an invasion.
2:38So it seems that things have been dramatically changing throughout today. And this comes in the backdrop of deteriorating relationships and increasing tensions in the past few days. And it was just three days ago that Tigran forces, together with other six armed groups in Ethiopia, announced that they're forming a new alliance aimed at toppling the government, the central government. And it seems that all these fears that have been sounded over the past few months, that Ethiopia might be sliding back to full civil war, are leading up to this. These market traders in the Tigrayan capital, Mekele, expressed their concern.
3:18I fear the situation in 2022 may be repeated. If possible, it should be resolved through peace. If not, the situation has to be resolved one way or another. Of course the war will have a big impact on us. For sure, our children's education will be affected and the infrastructure will be destroyed. But just sitting and doing nothing about our problems does not change anything. Therefore, we don't have any other option than to unite with our people, the government and armed forces, and defend our interests. Well, this was the announcement by the head of the African Union's mediation team, Olishaygun Abbasanjo, of the peace deal for Tigray back in November 2022.
4:02The two parties in the Ethiopian conflict have formally agreed to the cessation of hostilities as well as to systematic, orderly, smooth and coordinated disarmament. So what went wrong for an explanation of what's happening in Tigray now and to ask if meaningful peace is still possible? I've been speaking to Martin Plout, formerly of the World Service, now fellow at the Institute of Commonwealth Studies and King's College London. I began by asking him why the 2022 peace deal hadn't worked. Well, because it pitted two completely different views of Ethiopia against each other. The Tigrayans, who, by the way, are not rebels.
4:50They were actually the administration of the region and formerly the administration of the entire country. They lost out to Prime Minister Abiy and they retreated to Tigray. But their concerns were never addressed. and they gradually fell out with the government in Addis Ababa and then began to look to alternative sources of support. One of them was Eritrea, which is extraordinary because Eritrea allied with Ethiopia during the 2020-2020 war, which, as you said, led to half a million deaths. So it was extraordinary that they did that. But they first reached out to them. Now they've reached out to a much wider group of allies, There's six rebel groups who, with them, are now challenging the government in Ethiopia.
5:39Hence the latest escalation. Exactly. And this war, if it is a war, and we can't be sure about this, it could just be border skirmishes between the two sides at this stage. But this war has been predicted for the last 18 months. Everybody thought that it was coming. And it is really extremely dangerous, not only because for the region, not only for Ethiopia and Eritrea, if Eritrea gets involved, but for the wider region. Which is already war-torn, and this would have an effect, would it not, on two other conflicts going on? Exactly. The war in Sudan, which is possibly the worst in the world at the moment, I mean, the numbers of deaths are probably exceeding those in Ukraine, But the Ethiopians are on the side of the RSF, while as the Eritreans are, and the Tigrayans, on the side of the Sudanese armed forces.
6:36So you can see you already have tensions there. The United Arab Emirates puts arms into Ethiopia to go to the RSF, and that just makes the situation so much worse, while as the Saudis are on the side of the Eritreans, as are the Egyptians. So you can see everybody has a stake in this. Are there any feasible peace brokers here? As ever, it might be the United States who are the only people who have the power, but they are absolutely desperate not to get involved in another war. And, you know, they are flailing around. They've just done a deal with Eritrea, possibly to get access to their ports, which are very well situated.
7:18I mean, the whole issue, in a sense, turns around those ports, because Prime Minister Abiy of Ethiopia asked for those ports, said that they must have, the Ethiopia must have them, must re-establish the navy. In those circumstances, it caused this tremendous rift between Ethiopia and Eritrea, and the Tigrayans are now part of that conflict. Is there a minimum concession that needs to be given to the Tigrayans to stop this conflict, and is it feasible? It is feasible, but it would require them to be recognised as a legitimate part of the Ethiopian scene. Which looks unlikely now. Completely unlikely.
7:56And that is something that Prime Minister Abiy has not wished to do ever since the Tigrayans fought the war, which the Pretoria agreement was supposed to end. Has Washington shown any keenness to step in? They've issued a statement, but it's very much on the side of the Ethiopians at this stage. They haven't recognised any legitimacy for the Tigrayans' concerns. And quite frankly, unless you are more even-handed than they have shown themselves to be now, they're not going to be acceptable brokers. Martin Plout, fellow at the Institute of Commonwealth Studies and King's College London and also co-author of the book Understanding Ethiopia's Tigray War.
8:46In Nigeria, two survivors of a detention centre where dozens of people died earlier this month have told the BBC that inmates became so dehydrated that some had to drink urine and sweat to survive. Officials allegedly denied them water while they were being held in a cramped, badly ventilated room. The BBC was granted exclusive access to the facility in Niger State, where at least 50 suspected illegal minors were held before 37 of them died. Authorities say the cause of their deaths remains under investigation. The BBC's Madina Maishanu reports. We've just arrived at a detention centre in Niger State, north central Nigeria, where dozens of suspected illegal minors were held.
9:31This is the room where they were detained. The room is very, very small and it is hot. I'm sweating as I am talking right now. And I can still smell the stench of dead bodies and urine that must have touched everywhere in this room. There's only one small window. You can barely feel any air coming in right now as we're standing. Survivors say people were struggling for air inside this space. At least 37 people died after being detained here by Nigeria's Civil Defence Force, the NSCDC. Here with me are two of the survivors. As we step into the room, they become emotional. We had lost hope that we'll leave.
10:14Many people died in front of me. We were thirsty. Many people drank each other's urine. Some drank the sweat from others' clothes. They say the number of people packed into the room made the conditions even worse. One of us fainted and we started knocking on the door. and when one of them came, we'll ask him for water. One of us had fainted. He looked at the guy that fainted and closed the door. That's how they started dying one after the other. For those who survived, returning here means confronting what happened all over again. The detainees were among more than 50 suspected illegal miners arrested during an operation against illegal mining in the state.
10:55The authorities have not yet established what caused the deaths. The NSCDC has referred to the possibility of a disease outbreak, but an independent investigation is now underway. We heard 37 people died, so we rushed to the scene. Upon getting there, we confirmed them dead. Some, we saw them with their skin spilling. Some, we saw them swelling. Some with foam in their mouth. Some with even bleeding from nose and mouth. And that raised alarm. So we had to call the medical attention. They were now moved to the mortuary. Niger State Governor Mohamed Omar Obagu has called for a full investigation and declared three days of mourning for those who died.
11:37We've set up a committee of inquiry that has been chaired by my deputy governor. We have the Commissioner of Police, Niger State Command, the Director of DSS, even the army here in Niger State, and some very good experts, even the Commissioner of Health and Esteem as part of the committee, with a view of getting or fact-finding mission to see what really happened. A 10-member independent committee has been set up to establish the identities of those who died, examine how they were arrested and detained, determine the circumstances and cause of death, and establish whether there was negligence or wrongdoing.
12:1024 NSCDC personnel are now in custody over the deaths, including the suspended Niger State Commandant, Subiru Avinie. The force says the officers connected to the incidents have been taken into protective custody in Abuja, where they are being questioned and face administrative disciplinary proceedings. The authorities have also released the names of all 37 people who died. 33 were identified from records at the General Hospital Mina, while four others were not on the hospital list. Artisanal mining provides a livelihood for many people in Niger State, but the government says illegal mining costs a revenue, damages the environment and can be linked to criminal activity.
12:52In those areas where they do the illegal mining, so many other vices also take place. If the constitution is reviewed to allow the mining of minerals to be concordant, where the state and local government will also have input in organizing or reorganizing this mining, it may go a long place in solving these miners. Governor Bagu has called for an executive order stopping mining in problematic locations across Niger State, saying stronger federal intervention is needed. But inside this room, the focus is no longer on the wider mining operation. It is on the 37 people who came here alive and never left.
13:30The investigation is expected to establish what happened to the detainees and whether anyone should be held responsible for their deaths. That report from Niger State in Nigeria was by BBC Africa correspondent Medina Maishanu, who was granted exclusive access to that detention facility where 13-7 miners died. You're listening to the BBC World Service. We're live from London. We are NewsHour.
14:08Coming up as the US-backed Board of Peace for Gaza presents a$2.5 billion plan for partial reconstruction in the territory, we hear from a member of the board. Gaza was hijacked by Hamas 20 years ago, and these people, terrorists, have taken it over. It's going to take some time and patience and investment to do this. We're all committed to this, and this is where we'll get there, and we'll get to a better outcome at the end. I'm positive of that. You'll hear the full interview with Michael Eisenberg and a Palestinian response to it in about 15 minutes' time. The headlines for now, Iran's president, in an address to the UN in New York, has said his country will never bend the knee to US bullying, but is open to dialogue to end the current conflict.
14:50And Britain is setting up a new military unit, it says, to defend its satellites in space.
15:08I'm Paul Henley with NewsHour, live from the BBC in London. President Trump is preparing to welcome the Chinese leader Xi Jinping to the White House to discuss trade, technology and the growing fears about the future of artificial intelligence. Their much-anticipated summit comes after the tech executives in the US called for a slowdown in advanced AI development to manage the risks it could pose if it were to get out of control. The two leaders are expected to discuss guardrails for the technology, but both have pushed back on calls for a slowdown. China is investing heavily to build the computing power it needs to compete with the US in the AI race.
15:49Much of that investment is happening far from China's major cities, in places such as Inner Mongolia, where vast new data centres are being built to power the country's ambitions. Our China correspondent Laura Bicker sent this report.
16:07I'm wandering through the grasslands of Inner Mongolia This is a land of extraordinary scale In front of me I have towering wind turbines Endless rows of solar panels And of course beautiful horses rambling beneath them To build the infrastructure that is desperately needed for AI in Mongolia is key because it has vast amounts of wind and solar resources. And that's why China has chosen to build its AI data centres here, at remarkable speed. Buildings have risen out of the farmland in a matter of months, built by construction workers from all over the country. There is one phase of construction every year.
16:58This is the second phase. There are more to come. This has been a$75 billion investment. It doesn't do much good for us locals. They need educated people. They don't need that many workers. This country has fewer data centres than the US for now. But this hub is a way of catching up. If China is going to lead the world in artificial intelligence development, this is where it is building the engine room that will drive that change. Just a few months ago, this corner of Inner Mongolia was farmland. Now, dozens of data centres have sprung up for the likes of Huawei and others. There is no sign that China is slowing down on this technology.
17:49Across China, AI is becoming part of everyday life. From programming robot deliveries to aiding police on patrol, it's moving out of the lab and onto the streets. It's all part of Beijing's ambition to embed AI in its economy. Officials have bristled at any mention of a slowdown. Try to think of this from China's perspective, right? Jingyang is based in Hong Kong and is the Asia bureau chief of the business and tech media outlet, The Information. The S4 countries really have kneecapped China's AI development in the last several years. And then in spite of that, Chinese labs have, you know, managed to catch up.
18:33Why would China be incentivized to collaborate with, you know, America, which in Beijing's view has been kneecapping China's technological development, which has been trying to contain China's rise? unless there is something that Washington can offer to really threaten the deal. But others do see the urgency. David Finkelstein from the Center for Naval Analysis told a defense forum in Beijing that it was time for the two leaders to talk. I'm not sure they're going to come to any agreements anytime soon, but I seriously think there's a lot of motivation to talk about these things. The use of AI in command and control and warfare, who's using it in their nuclear chain of command.
19:15And this is scary stuff. Back in Inner Mongolia, the building work continues while farm workers gather up rows of plump potatoes for market. There has been little opposition to data centres here, unlike in the West. But there are still some quiet sceptics. If they demolish the village for a data centre, it won't be good. I prefer living by the farmland. President Xi has set the direction and will feel that in the long term, China can compete with the US on this technology. His government is focused on securing an AI-powered future, even as some of its people wonder whether they'll be part of it.
20:02Laura Bicker reporting.
20:08Here now is a story for anyone who's ever dreamed of rifling through a charity shop and finding hidden treasure. A rare first edition of the American classic novel To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee has been discovered in a box of donations to a store belonging to the charity Oxfam here in London. The store's manager is Olivia Hazeman-Walker and she spoke to James Menendez. So it's very exciting. Our deputy manager found the book in a box of donations. It was a beautiful antiquarian copy of To Kill a Mockingbird and when you get a book that's as beloved as that and that's as old as this copy was you start to look and see if it's something special and this copy was.
20:50And your colleague, I mean was it an instant thing they took a look at it and thought hold on a second this is something different? Yeah absolutely we're always on the lookout for precious gems like that and people are really generous and sometimes they'll even say oh I think this one might be something a bit special. Did they in this case? We don't know, but we hope that they knew what they had and that they knew that we'd get a fair price for it. Was there any clue? I'm just so intrigued by this. Was there any clue in the other books that this was someone who had a high quality collection they were donating?
21:23Or do you think that they overlooked the fact that this was something so rare? Well, it was something that had clearly been read and loved. The book jacket itself was a little bit tatty. So you can picture it being on somebody's shelf and then ending up in like a donation. They're clearing out their library. And yeah, it came in with just a lot of other books from the period. So possibly was bought originally in 1960 and has been with them ever since. Yeah, I'm just looking at a picture of it. And as you say, it looks like, you know, it could easily be mistaken for any slightly sort of worn secondhand book.
21:58But what about the condition inside? How was that? It was beautiful. Yeah. Their pages were unblemished. They were tightly bound. It was, yeah, a real special find. So it's been passed to the National Collection at the British Library. I don't want to break any confidences, but I mean, did they pay for it and did they pay you? They did, yeah. They gave us a very generous charitable donation for it. it eventually ended up on our online shop which is open to anybody across the country who wants to browse and buy books and that's where the British Library found it and they got into contact with us and said can we come and have a look at it just verify that it is what we think it is and then they were very happy to purchase it from us.
22:43So it was open for general sale before they spotted it? It was yeah first on our shop floor and then on our online shop. Oh my goodness I feel like I missed the trick here can I ask you I mean are you able to tell us how much they pay for it I'm not allowed I'm afraid um but it was we're talking four figures five figures four figures yes four figures has this ever happened I mean has this ever happened to you before to to one of your shops yeah we get gems all the time um I would keep an eye out on the Bonhams auction and that's who Oxam goes to when we have valuable um valuable books um in the recent years we've sold the first translation of the Bible into Chinese at Bonhams.
23:27Last year we sold a very beautiful edition of The Hobbit and actually my shop is really buzzing at the moment because we had a first edition Hobbit that is also going for sale at Bonhams in November. Olivia Hazeman-Walker, manager of an Oxfam store in London, on finding that valuable first edition of Harper Lee's book To Kill a Mockingbird. This is NewsHour live from London from the BBC World Service.
24:13The Haunted Library
24:22and find stories that will linger long after you've left this place. From gothic masterpieces to pulpy penny dreadfuls, join me, Colin Morgan, with new episodes twice a week. Find The Haunted Library wherever you get your podcasts.
24:42Welcome back to NewsHour, to Ghana in West Africa now, where an entrepreneur has found a way of solving two problems at once by turning waste plastic packaging into much-needed desks for schools. Our reporter Justice Beidou met Makafui Awuku in his workshop in Ghana's capital, Accra. Welcome to Makintosh Africa. So let's walk around and let me show you some of them. A big guy with a big smile. Makafui Awuku has an infectious passion for recycling plastic. He shows me his current stockpile. So it's a huge heap of plastic bottles, sachet rubbers that have been collected together. How much plastics do we have here?
25:27About 400 kilograms. We generate about 1.1 million metric tons of plastic waste in Ghana every year. In Ghana, it is thought that just around 5 % of plastic is collected for recycling. Macafu's latest project addresses another problem here in Ghana. a shortage of school desks. We have a lot of debt deficit in our schools. We have a debt deficit of close to 2 million. McAfee makes desktops from the plastic sachets that are commonly used for drinking water here in Ghana. He has 300 drop-off points for the sachets around the country, and he supplements these by buying more that have been gathered by waste pickers.
Read the full transcript
26:10So when the dry shreds come here, We have this heat transfer equipment. And then we have hydraulic press that we use to press it. So we set it and then we wait. So this looks to me like a big sandwich making machine. But instead of sandwich, this is plastic materials that have been put into this machine and then been pressed together. Yes, that's close enough. These sandwich machines can create a range of materials from a leather-like fabric to these desk boards that are just like plywood. They are sanded
26:58and drilled to the desk frames. So far, McAfee has supplied 600 desks to 12 schools around the country. They cost about$60 each. but they are not paid for by the schools, but with grants and corporate donations. I travel to a nearby school to see them for myself. So this is a classroom of about 60 pupils, and as I enter here I can see Macapri's desk lined up with the students sitting on them and using them. I'm just going to go have a chat. When we are writing exams, you know, the wooden decks, they are not that smooth for the people. but when we are writing, the writing don't look smooth, but those are nice good cards, it's really helpful.
27:43The wooden decks, they break easily, but these plastic decks, they don't decay and they don't break easily. They are very hard. Well, I can't resist asking the students to test the strength of the desks. OK, so three, two, one, go!
28:02That was Justice Baidu reporting from Ghana.
28:12This is NewsHour. I'm Paul Henley. President Trump's Board of Peace for Gaza has announced a$2.45 billion recovery plan for the territory at a meeting of its members and stakeholders, which don't include any Palestinians. It is a six-month plan, and the effort in New York to introduce it coincides with increased criticism of the humanitarian situation in Gaza from world leaders such as the French president Emmanuel Macron and the Turkish leader Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Both have called for an end to the ongoing conflict with Israel. Israel's insisted, meanwhile, it must still eliminate the threat from Hamas within Gaza.
28:52So what is in this new plan? What will the money be spent on? Michael Eisenberg is an American-born Israeli venture capitalist, an advisor to the Israeli prime minister, and a member of this Board of Peace. Yes, so this morning the Board of Peace presented a plan for a variety of sectors of life, sanitation, hygiene, and of course some future building plans, all of which is predicated on the full disarmament and demilitarization of the Gaza Strip, as the High Representative Nikolai Mladenov said today. And so there's a lot of ambitious plans as soon as Hamas decides to give up their weapons. Well, the plan involves rebuilding, demolition of rubble.
29:35What exactly? You know, first of all, because it's a war zone, you need to remove unexploded ordnance. And then there are still hundreds of kilometers of tunnels underneath Gaza, which need to be destroyed as well. Hamas spent 20 years and many billions of dollars of international aid building up those tunnels. And so once that's all done, Gazans can get back to rebuilding, again, whether it's housing or better sanitation or other things. And where does the money come from? So this morning, there were requests for donors to make good on their pledges. There's been$18 billion pledged by the international community.
30:10Not all of it has come in. As you stated earlier, I'm an investor. This will work on a capital call basis where the Board of Peace, as needed, is going to call the capital for the projects. And on disarmament, Hamas made it clear that it would not give up its weapons until Israel had met the requirements of an agreement made in late July, which Israel has not yet done. I'm not sure what you're referring to, but very clearly, the 20-point plan signed by President Trump and Hamas, which released the hostages from Gaza and called some of a ceasefire into effect, requires Hamas to disarm, demilitarize, and de-radicalize the Gaza Strip.
30:52Nobody is preventing them from handing over their weapons or starting to engage in demilitarization or marking the tunnels that need to be destroyed. And so that is a sine qua non, and obviously a precedent, as the Board of Peace laid out today, for anything further in Gaza. The humanitarian situation, which was never as dire as the media, including the BBC, reported, has even gotten better since then. There's no shortage of food in Gaza. And so all they need to do, Hamas, is hand in their weapons. According to the UN's Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs today, 1.98 million people, or 94 % of the population of Gaza, need shelter on non-food items.
31:33The need is dire, according to the UN. So the United Nations, we should take with a grain of salt. They also predicted that 14 ,000 Gazan children would die of starvation. That turned out to be false. And so I'm not suggesting that Gaza is a easy place to live right now. But actions have consequences. And Hamas launched this invasion of Israel, beheaded our women and children, raped them. And there's a war and war has unfortunate consequences. There is a war. So you say that. And all that needs to happen is for Hamas to turn over the weapons, absent themselves from the management of Gaza, and let the NCAG and the Board of Peace do their job, and the Office of the High Representative Nikolai Miladinov do their job.
32:15But it's not safe for the NCAG, the National Committee for the Administration of Gaza, nor for the Board of Peace to go into Gaza, for a very simple reason, not Israel. It's because Hamas maintains their weapons, and they will kill Dr. Ali Shaf and the High Representative. That is what terrorists do. Well, by your own assessment, talk of peace right now and a peace plan, and even the name of the Board of Peace sounds like wishful thinking. And of course, Palestinians are still being killed almost daily in Gaza. 24 Palestinians were killed in Israeli attacks over a five-day period in late August, including four children and a woman.
32:50We're a long way from peace, aren't we? So the Board of Peace is embarking on a long mission. 20 years of educating people for radical terror is not undone, not in six months and not in one year. You know, Vladimir Lenin was famous for saying, give me a child's education for eight years and he'll be a Bolshevik for life. Well, Hamas has had 20 years to corrupt and radicalize the minds of all the people of Gaza. This is not going to take a day and it's not going to take a year. But the Board of Peace is fully committed to this plan. State of Israel has been committed to this plan. The International Communities seems to be in this plan.
33:26There's no other plan. And there's no looking back. The peace processors of old, unfortunately, failed in their mission. And how relevant is it? And that's a radically new plan put forward by President Trump. And I think we all should get behind it. The last question, I'm sorry, we don't have much time left. How relevant is it that the Board of Peace doesn't include any Palestinians? First of all, I didn't put together the Board of Peace. But second of all, the committee for the administration of Gaza is made up of Gazans. And so the people that the Board of Peace and the Office of the Higher Representative have chosen to go run Gaza are Gazans.
33:57And what you need to recognize and understand very clearly, the international community, and somebody mentioned President Macron before calling people out, likes to deflect attention away from their own failings by pointing to Gaza. Gaza was hijacked by Hamas 20 years ago. And these people, terrorists, have taken it over. It's going to take some time and patience and investment to do this. We're all committed to this. And this is where we'll get there and we'll get to a better outcome at the end. I'm positive of that. Michael Eisenberg, American-born Israeli businessman, advisor to the Israeli Prime Minister, and a member of the Gaza Board of Peace.
34:30He was speaking to me there from New York. Let's hear a response now from Jonathan Kutab, who's a Palestinian lawyer and former international negotiator. I asked him what he thought of the proposal. Well, apart from all the problems in the proposal, there is no mechanism for ensuring that Israel carries out its part of the agreement, nor is there any clarity about what power is being transferred from Israel to the board, so-called board of peace. apart from the fact that there are no Palestinians on that board and that their interest is not at all taken into account, Israel continues to have a very strict siege on everything that goes in or out of Gaza.
35:21As you said, there are no Palestinians on the board, but many Palestinian-leaning nations did join the Board of Peace. Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Indonesia, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates among them. It's not an entirely biased institution, is it? Well, its composition is clearly biased, but that's not the point. The point is that this board is not going to have any actual authority. Right now, Israel is preventing even allowing toilet seats, wheelchairs, basic equipment to be brought in. So how is this board going to operate if it doesn't have the freedom to allow the materials in to carry out its function?
36:11As long as Israel has a stranglehold over what is allowed in and what is allowed out, this board of peace is going to be nothing but a tool for Israel's continued occupation and oppression of people in Gaza. Well, clearly, the Board of Peace can't do its work until there is peace. What do you think are the prospects of a real peace in Gaza anytime soon? That's not what we're witnessing at the moment, is it? This is also another problem, is that while the Palestinians are being required to turn over, Hamas is being required to turn over its weapons as well as its authority, Israel is the one who is continuing, despite the ceasefire, to shoot and kill and bomb the Palestinians.
37:05A ceasefire really requires both sides to stop firing, but Israel is retaining the right to shoot and kill and go after whoever it wishes to go after in the Palestinian community. And when they say they want Hamas to give up its weapons, they're not only talking about the rockets or the heavy equipment, they're also talking about their personal weapons. So as long as somebody continues to have a pistol or a gun or a knife, Israel will say they have not disarmed and therefore they are not required to do anything. The 20-point plan by the United States mentions and requires Israel to do things as well as the Palestinians.
37:58Israel has failed to carry out its job under the plan, has failed to allow goods and material to be brought in, including medicines, including wheelchairs. If you can't even allow wheelchairs in, if peanut butter is still not allowed in, baby formula is not allowed in, Israel determines what kinds of food will be allowed in and in what quantities. This is really a very difficult plan to implement because it doesn't have the ingredients of an ongoing peace plan. Look, all Gazans will eventually want a plan that involves the clearing of Israeli munitions, the clearing of the rubble, the rebuilding, the resupply of the Gazan population with the very basics.
38:57This is the only plan on the table, isn't it? This is all that exists at the moment, realistically. Well, there are other things that exist, which is the lifting of the siege, for example. The creation of, let's put it this way, there is no doubt that allowing an international presence into Gaza is a very useful thing for all parties involved. The problem is that Israel will not allow such a presence unless it serves its own interests rather than the interests of the population. Right now, the Board of Peace isn't even allowed physically to enter into Gaza. Does it give you any reassurance that the Palestinian Authority has accepted the role of the Board of Peace?
39:43It doesn't. The fact that the Palestinian Authority, as well as Hamas itself, has agreed to turn over its authority, its civil, not just the military, but its civil authority has agreed to turn it over to a Board of Peace is certainly a very positive thing. But I have not seen Israel conceding anything to this border of peace to allow it to carry out its functions. Jonathan Kutab, Palestinian lawyer and former international peace negotiator, speaking to me there from the US East Coast. Don't forget if you want to listen to NewsHour but miss the live broadcast, there's an online version of our programme available, updated shortly after we come off air twice a day.
40:29You need to search for BBC NewsHour podcast and you can subscribe to the feed if you want to get it on a regular basis. I'm Paul Henley and live from the BBC World Service, this is NewsHour.
41:11I'm Paul Henley and this is NewsHour live from the BBC in London. A judge in the US is hearing arguments today in a case that will test the limits of presidential power over media access to the White House. The Trump administration is defending a decision to ban CNN, Politico and MS Now. The news organisations say the move is unconstitutional and an attack on press freedom. Let's talk live to the BBC's chief North America correspondent, Gary O'Donohue. He joins us from Washington. Welcome, Gary. What's been happening? Well, they wrapped up about half an hour ago and they spent 45 minutes with the arguments.
41:51We were able to listen into that. And each side got about 20 minutes each and the judge asked questions. He was very clear that there are some precedents in this case and that his court is obliged to follow those precedents. And he said those precedents indicated that there had to be what he called pre-notice deprivation. So the Trump administration couldn't really take people's passes off them, as they had in this case, 78 reporters, and then tell them afterwards the reason why. Now, he's gone away to think about it. He hasn't made a ruling. What the three press organisations are asking for is what's called a temporary restraining order that would restore the passes to those journalists and access to the White House while the arguments over the First Amendment and things like that were argued in a case further down the line.
42:38Remind us what President Trump's justification is for this ban. well it's shifted a bit so last friday when this uh first happened he uh described it really as um as uh as about fake news he was asked is there something specific that's happened he said no no this is just cumulative fake news in the court filings they made this week they sent a number of of specific examples of what they believed were breaches of national security publication of classified information by the three news organizations. And this is CNN, MS Now and Politico. So they sort of pivoted a bit away from Donald Trump's general dislike of these outlets, which is what the plaintiffs say, that he just doesn't like what they say.
43:24And that's why he's banning them. And they're trying to make a case on national security. And the judge was very interested in that argument this afternoon, indeed pressed the lawyer for the media organizations would say, you know, is there any case where national security could justify people being banned from the White House? And they said, you know, they agreed there were, but this wasn't that in this particular case. This wasn't anything like that. The president has already talked about an appeal, hasn't he? Does he think that the judge's decision is a foregone conclusion? Well, this is interesting because Tim Kelly, the judge, Timothy Kelly, he adjudicated a similar case in 2018 when they took a pass, a White House pass off Jim Acosta from CNN.
44:06And Timothy Kelly restored that pass immediately. Now, Timothy Kelly is a Trump appointee, a judge appointed by Donald Trump. But Donald Trump knows the history of the Acosta case. And he kind of already has, you know, kind of predicted that they'll have to appeal. So he kind of expects he's going to lose by the sound of it. Many thanks. That's our chief North America correspondent, Gary O'Donohue, Joining us live from Washington. Finally on NewsHour today, an archaeological find in the centre of Paris has been hailed by historians because it could constitute proof of the location of the French capital's first ever settlement before the arrival of the Romans.
44:46An ancient wall has been discovered during excavations below a hospital on the Ile de la Cité, an island in the Seine that is home to the Notre Dame Cathedral. The wall is thought to be part of the ramparts of Iron Age Lutetia, a name that might be familiar to readers of the famous Asterix books. Lucy Altenberg explains more about this find. She is archaeological conservator of the city of Paris, and she's been involved in the dig. We're currently undertaking a commercial archaeology dig for some infrastructure work at the Hôtel Dieu on l 'île de la Cité. And for the first time ever, we've been able to dig down to six, seven meters, therefore finding a layer that predates Roman occupation of the city of Lutetia, during which we found a wall.
45:35The type of wall is indicative of a Gallic wall. And so that's very exciting for us because that would mean it's the first time we found traces of the Gallic people of Lutetia as potentially described by Julius Caesar in his Gallic Wars text. Because he said in 52 BC, I believe, that Luticia was a town situated on an island in the River Senne. He also mentions that the town had been set on fire when the Romans were approaching. Burnt timber was one of your finds, wasn't it? That's right. So we found burnt timbers that probably had collapsed onto burned grain, so directly into the floor. and one of the details, masonry details of Gallic walls is that they are built with stone and wood.
46:20In this case, we found wooden structure completely carbonized, so we have deduced that there's been quite a violent fire that took place around the wall. Any other artifacts? Yes, so one of my favorite is an iron spearhead, which has been pretty positively identified as being a Gallic spearhead, not a Roman one. And we found a couple Gallic coins to sort of date the layer and a few pieces of ceramic that seem to be amphora. How significant is all this and why? This is extremely significant, not just for us as archaeologists, but for the history of the city of Paris, because for a long time there has been some debate as to what was this island that Julius Caesar was describing, and we had no evidence of Gallic occupation, only de la Cité.
47:07There is evidence for an important settlement in an island near Nanterre, archaeological evidence. So for a long time we thought, well, maybe Lutetia was actually there and this is what Julius Caesar saw. Nanterre is a suburb of Paris. It's some distance away, isn't it, from the centre? Yes. You probably need a 20-minute metro to reach Nanterre from L 'Ile-de-Acité, actually. This is placing the ancient centre right in the modern centre, isn't it? Yes. You're literally in the beating heart of historical Paris on L 'Ile-de-Acité, It's the centre of Paris. And we're now saying that we have found traces of occupation that predates the Romans.
47:46Because we have well-documented evidence of the Romans being only duetite, but we had none of anybody before them. How does that make you feel? Honestly, it's extremely exciting. I know a lot of us in my unit and fellow archaeologists have been waiting a very long time to find these people and traces of their occupation. So it's unheard of for us. We wouldn't have been able to do this other than the context of the dig and the work on L 'Hôtel Dieu. So it's very exciting. Yeah, I suppose you don't get many opportunities to go really deep right in the historic centre of Paris. No, it's extremely rare.
48:22We're currently on a cycle of digs with Parvis de Notre-Dame, Palais de Justice and L 'Hôtel Dieu, where we can go deeper than ever before in any other dig that's happened on Nîle de la Cité. We're talking six metres minimum, probably even deeper if we found the foundation of the walls. We've never been that deep, Boni de la Cité. Archaeologist Lucy Altenberg on the origins of Paris. Thanks for listening to this edition of NewsHour for a Wednesday evening, UK time. Goodbye for now.
49:17The Haunted Library
49:34Join me, Colin Morgan, with new episodes twice a week. Find The Haunted Library wherever you get your podcasts.
From the publisher
Could there be a return to full-scale civil war in the Horn of Africa, where fresh fighting has broken out in Ethiopia?
Also in the programme: President Trump's Board of Peace for Gaza announces a $2.45bn recovery plan for the territory. We speak to one of the board's members and get the view of a Palestinian; and French archaeologists find new evidence of the origins of the city of Paris.
(Picture: Rickshaw taxis and motorists drive along the street near the Tigray Martyrs monument in Mekelle, Tigray Region, Ethiopia, September 23, 2026. Credit: REUTERS/Stringer)
