Fifa chief remains in post

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. It's been five months since the deadliest civilian strike of the U.S.-Israel war in Iran. 120 children killed at a school. Experts say the evidence indicates it was American forces that hit the school. But the U.S. government has not admitted responsibility. I'm Asma Khaled, and I host the Global Story podcast on the BBC. The BBC has now visited the site of the school and spoken to Iranians about what they saw. For more, listen to The Global Story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:40Hello and welcome to NewsHour. It's coming to you live from the BBC World Service studios in central London. I'm Tim Franks. We've got two stories today of people in prominent positions coming under enormous pressure to resign. One of them has done so. He's a professor at Cambridge University, a black professor at one of the world's most prestigious institutions, and it's been a saga which has made headlines around the world. More on that in about 45 minutes. First, though, a rather more globally famous figure who's come under pressure to step down, but has insisted he's staying, and indeed that he's fighting back against what he calls the attacks on the name and reputation of the body he leads.

1:22That man is Gianni Infantino, president of FIFA, the governing body of world football. He came in for an avalanche of criticism after his proposal, now ditched, to sell off stakes in FIFA competitions to private investors. After an emergency meeting of his management board, Mr Infantino appears intent on campaigning for a re-election for a fourth term in office next March. And he has his supporters. Fleetwood Haya is one of them. He's president of Malawi's Football Association, and he's been speaking to my NewsHour colleague James Menendez. I have worked with FIFA president Gianni Fantino, and I have seen his commitment to growing football grovery, particularly in development countries such as Malawi.

2:05Through FIFA Forward and other development programmes and projects, many member associations have benefited significantly. And for that, I will remain grateful, and I can assure you that I support him wholeheartedly. And what about his plan to sell off some of the rights to tournaments like the World Cup to private enterprise? Why did you support that? The benefits of this proposal is that we are going to generate more income. That is going to transcend to football development. countries like malawi which is economically considered one of the poorest countries in the world it was non-brainer it's something that you i couldn't think twice of not supporting it so you saw the plan as a way to generate more money and that would filter down directly to the development of football in your country to me that was the biggest support if football can create money out of itself, it's better off.

3:08The boss of Malawi's FA Football Association Fleetwood Hire. Where now then for the critics of the FIFA boss? Ulke Götlich is president of the German club Zankt Pauli and the vice president of the German Football Association. What's his reaction to the statement that came out of that emergency meeting? Nothing about it is surprising me, because nothing about this crisis we faced last week guarantees that change is coming. What we see is that privilege with money is using money for power. And this is something definitely which we all need to discuss, whether it's clubs or the continental federations, but also the players and fans need to get involved because we have to discuss what kind of football and especially what kind of governance we want to have.

4:08But this statement out of this senior meeting of FIFA executives in Morocco does say, it acknowledges that mistakes were made, but it says that it wasn't the intention for exactly the people that you're talking about, the members of FIFA, the words of the statement, feel excluded from the process and that the process should have been handled differently. So there is an acknowledgement that mistakes were made and there should have been a broader consultation process. Why are you saying that is not sufficient for you? Because we are waiting since 2015 after the corruption scandal that the misgoverned bodies of football, and there are not only FIFA but potentially others, need structural reforms.

5:00And these were promised a decade ago, but nothing happened. And therefore, we need better internal governance mechanisms and effective external oversight. You're referring, of course, to what happened when FIFA was led by its previous boss, Sepp Blatter, and there were all sorts of allegations about the role that he played and the awarding, for example, of the World Cup to Qatar back in 2012. But I just wonder, actually, whether whenever you get global sporting bodies, such as FIFA, with the huge amounts of money and prestige that go with these games, that you're going to get people fighting tooth and nail over how the money is earned and how it's spent.

5:54And in a sense, I just wonder whether it's part of the business. Oh, well, of course, it's always where huge amounts of money are flowing. Of course, things can be getting pretty, pretty strange. But why not having some external oversight when you are overpronouncing for years that you are doing it for the communities, the global communities? And the German Football Association has already said it will not support Gianni Infantino's next term. Yeah, except, I mean, we've heard from the president of the Malawian Football Association, who has said that, you know, yes, he agrees that this proposal was badly put together, badly handled in terms of the lack of consultation.

6:48But he has seen, in his view, a real commitment from FIFA under Gianni Infantino to growing football in developing countries. And when you've got smaller associations, I should say, such as his, who potentially stand to gain tens of millions of dollars out of a proposal such as this, you can understand why they may well be saying this may have been badly handled, but it was well-intentioned. Well, yes, the hypocrisy of all this is that the support of every association worldwide is something Gianni Infantino has pointed out on many levels. But why is that hypocritical? No, no, no, that's not hypocritical at all.

7:33The hypocritical point is with the money which comes from certain areas of the world, you are growing a tournament for, of course, getting access from many more other associations and countries. But therefore, you're not able to, for example, host a World Cup in smaller countries because they just don't have the capacities in stadiums, arenas. Does that really matter? I think this is also to be put into consideration. How are we able to host World Cups? With how many countries are we able to play? And this is what it's all about. It's about governance and processes and whether they are transparent, whether they are democratic or whether they are just pouring money to many associations which can secure your vote of being FIFA president.

8:32Urke Götlich, president of the German club's Zankt Pauli and vice president of the German Football Association. Let's turn to the football journalist Henry Winter, vastly experienced, has been watching the game for a long, long time. And Henry, I just wonder what your thoughts are today on how safe Gianni Infantino is. Hi Tim So slightly sad at the state of events And still waiting really for UEFA's reaction UEFA have been pretty quick to react to What FIFA have done Whether it's on ticket prices Or whether this ill-conceived plan that they came up with But the clock is ticking in a way Because August the 14th is when there'll be decision Or reflections on a decision about the 64-team World Cup And that will polarise a lot of views.

9:26There'll be a lot of countries in Africa and Asia who will be excited by the possibility of the door being opened wider to the World Cup for financial reasons and obviously for sporting reasons. so that if it's confirmed will win a lot of support for Infantino and then of course November the 18th you know anyone who wants to stand against this beleaguered some would say discredited president now has to sort of show their hand by November the 18th so the clock is ticking. Yeah I want to ask you about potential candidates in a moment but just you mentioned UEFA European football's governing body I mean I guess that's the point though I mean this is a sort of one country, one vote type of system.

10:11There are 211 member associations. UEFA is, you know, traditionally it's seen as a powerhouse because European football is seen as a powerhouse, but there are lots and lots of other confederations, aren't there? And presumably, I mean, many of them will have rather more supportive views of Infantino, but also, you know, I guess they won't necessarily vote on block. Well, I mean, that's a very significant point because, I mean, on Europe alone, 55 member associations, that's a quarter of FIFA, which is, what, 211 member associations. And you only need one or two, maybe more of the smaller national associations from Europe voting individually, whether for financial reasons, whether for footballing reasons.

10:55Then it obviously, it turns it. I mean, CONCACAF, which is North America, Central America and the Caribbean associations, I mean, they're sort of partly in line behind UEFA. But as you say, when it actually comes down to it, and they vote individually, for some of these countries, even one or two of the smaller ones in Europe, the money that was initially on offer in this plan was three, four times their national revenue. So you can see why a lot of the African nations and some of the Asian nations, which do absolutely need investment in infrastructure coaching player development, would have been absolutely tempted by this.

11:35And absolutely no surprise that Infantino went to Rabat, Morocco, Africa to make his big stand last night. Do you think that there are obvious candidates who might come in with a chance, A, of getting support, but B, of really sort of promising, given that we've sort of been on this radio before with the previous FIFA boss, Sepp Blatter, really promising this time we're going to sort FIFA out so that it's, you know, transparent and democratic and all the rest of it? Well, Infantino promised that when he came in. So maybe it's something to do with the culture of the building, or whether it's actually to do with psychological flaws of the individual who steps in there gets given all this presidential power, suddenly find himself at barbecues at the White House mixing with the rich, powerful and famous, and it goes to their heads a little bit.

12:29I mean, it was quite amusing reading the statement from FIFA last night when they said, well, we will stand up to critics of good governance. I mean, one of the reasons why the good governance is under question at the moment is because of the process and the plan that Infantino came up with. So I'm afraid we're locked in a civil war now. I guess there will be some people out there just briefly Henry who might be saying I mean yes of course football is the world's favourite sport but really should we care about whether Gianni Infantino stays or goes? Well I think we should care about what sort of leaders we have in life whether politics, whether sport, whether commercial whatever you know you want them to have a moral compass you want them to lead you want them to have transparency and accountability and we've not really seen that in this case so yes it does matter Henry Winter, football journalist, thank you very much as ever for joining us.

13:24You're listening to NewsHour, live from London.

13:37And coming up on the programme, our reporter is out on patrol with the Ukrainian Navy under threat of drone attack as it patrols the waters off Odessa. To my understanding, Russians are not targeting the vessels. They are targeting people. They're targeting crew. I think this is happening because we hit their oil supply and petrol supply vessels. And right now we're trying to cut off Crimea from any petrol supplies, and we've hit quite a few vessels. So that's probably a return gesture. So you think it is revenge? Absolutely. More on that coming up in about 15 minutes. Our main headline this hour, and it is what we'll be talking about in just a moment.

14:24Myanmar's military ruler has met Thailand's prime minister in Bangkok.

14:38This is NewsHour live from the BBC and just before we head to Bangkok to our Southeast Asia correspondent some news that is just in and that is that the Senate Homeland Security Committee that's been considering the fate of Anthony Fauci the former White House medical advisor whom they wanted to testify about the COVID origins of COVID. They've just voted along party lines to hold him in contempt for his failure to testify to the committee last week. We will bring you any updates on that as we get them. Now, that Myanmar is governed by a vicious, repressive military dictatorship is not under dispute, nor that Myanmar is embroiled in a civil war with that military attempting to crush through the brutal, undiscriminating use of force the various insurgencies across the country.

15:34But the question today is whether more than five years after the elected government was overthrown, it's now time for Myanmar to emerge from its diplomatic isolation. The reason it's a question today is that Myanmar's supreme military ruler, Min Ang Hlaing, has received a red carpet welcome in neighbouring Thailand.

16:00We're watching those slightly squeaky ceremonials in Bangkok has been our South East Asia correspondent, Jonathan Head, and Jonathan joins us live from the Thai capital. How significant a moment do you think this was, Jonathan? Very big for me, Long Line, Tim, very big. I mean, this man's been an international pariah, and while he puts up a very defiant front in insisting that Myanmar will go its own way, he craves international respectability. Thailand is not the world's biggest country, but it is a core founder member of ASEAN, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, of which Myanmar is a member and which has barred him from any meetings ever since the coup because he made a promise five years ago that he would scale down conflict to negotiate with the opposition and reneged on it immediately.

16:50and other Southeast Asian countries have held the line saying, we cannot fully engage with this guy. They have some relations. We cannot bring him in from the cold until we see significant moves to ease the repression, end the civil war, talk to the opposition. But Thailand has cracked, and there's no doubt about it. The Thais say they're doing what they call calibrated re-engagement, but looking at that ceremony this morning, it didn't look very calibrated to me. He got full honours. There was a big military ban. There was an honour guard. lots of meetings with top Thai officials and a speech at the end basically saying full cooperation business as usual, lots of security cooperation, it's as though the coup never happened Is Thailand's argument partly that look, you know there are important issues beyond what's going on inside Myanmar that we do need cooperation with Napier or over, but also that I suppose that we've tried the We tried the cold shouldering and hasn't really got us anywhere.

17:51Yeah, I mean, they make the first argument very strongly. They say, look, unlike other ASEAN members, they have a two and a half thousand kilometer border. We've got scam centers. We've got wars going on. We've got refugees coming across transnational crime of all kinds. We have to talk to Myanmar in a way that other Southeast Asian countries like Indonesia, which are a long way away, don't. That's a little disingenuous because most of those problems are happening in areas controlled by warlords or ethnic insurgent armies where the Myanmar government doesn't have much control. So it's not going to be able to do much to solve the problems that Thailand's getting coming over its border.

18:26I think more of it is about the second point they won't acknowledge, but I think it's there. The fact is that Min Hong Line's recovery from near defeat two years ago, when his soldiers were in retreat and insurgent groups were moving forward, that recovery is down to the full support from China. China made a decision two years ago that it did not want to see a collapse of the military regime. It feared chaos and it threw its full weight behind Min Hong Line. And his military has recovered largely as a result of that support. Well, if you've got China backing a country, you know it's backing a government.

18:59You know it's not going anywhere. And I think the Thais feel if we don't get in there, we'll lose influence to China. And, you know, ultimately, this military government's going nowhere. There are also plenty of vested interests in Thailand that want better relations with Myanmar. Sadly, all those people who took up arms hoping for a revolution are now feeling very bereft as though nobody cares about their issues. Jonathan Head in Bangkok. Thanks very much. another footballing story to bring you now but one that's rather more uplifting um albeit one that starts from the lowest point um it's uh the fact that in the five years since the taliban returned to power in afghanistan women have been banned from all organized sport but against those terrible odds afghanistan's women footballers have found a way back onto the international stage the bbc's majuba noruzi has the story

19:56A song for Afghanistan, a team reunited, sang by players who have travelled from across the world for two friendlies in Oakland against the Cook Islands. We want Afghanistan to be free, and we want Afghan girls and women to be free, to be able to choose who they want to be. We want to prove that we are still here, we are still fighting for the rights that you took away from us. You're connecting to another international flight. Forced into exile after the Taliban retook control of Afghanistan five years ago, Najma and her teammates were scattered around the world. Now they are back together. First since FIFA allowed Afghanistan's team in exile back into international football.

20:45Good. Chin up just a bit. You're defying, OK? Good. As the players are presented with their matchday kit, Najma, who now lives in Doncaster, reflects on the last five years. It's been five years. We are getting older and older and we haven't got a new generation that is very concerning for the new generation. We want to be there wrong with us and we want the younger girls to look up at us and they were like, they did it. We want to do it as well. We want to keep their dreams alive. Good, nice and strong. Good. I was bullied throughout high school and football gave me the confidence to be who I am today and to be able to speak loud.

21:29Morsal, who has settled in Australia, has painted her nails with various pictures. She tells us what they mean. I wanted to use this platform to advocate for the women of Afghanistan who haven't been allowed to study for the past five years. obviously the book, the rose who is a representation of women, and the flags, and the date, August 15th, and the date that I've gone to St. Phil. In August 2021, the airport was not like an airport. The first gate when I went with my mom, they put a gun towards me, it was like, where's your man? I was panicking and my mother said that our men made it inside the airport, we left outside and we got separated.

22:12So she handled the situation. Due to my dad's disability, I couldn't take him through that crowd with me and my mom had to stay back with him. Having won the chance to represent Afghanistan, for many of the players, football has become more than a game. A lot of my friends and family is back home and still I'm missing them every single day and there is nothing I can do except playing football and using the football as a biggest platform with the media to be their voices. It is finally match day. The aim is to rebuild Afghanistan's team in exile and to compete for a place at the 2028 Olympic Games.

23:00Afghanistan lost both matches to the Cook Islands. Girls, I'm so proud of our young players who played today. After years in exile, simply wearing their country's colours again is a victory. I will be proud of the team and proud of myself that I was part of the journey and we made the history by being the first football team to get our recognition without the approval of the Taliban. We don't know when we're going to see each other again, but it's just always amazing to have the second family. Mujuba Naoroosi with that story of the Afghan women's football team.

23:39President Trump has described the surge of migrants into Spain as an invasion. But what really happened in the tiny Spanish enclave known as Ceuta? I'm Asma Khaled, and I host the Global Story podcast on the BBC. Last week, tens of thousands of migrants from Morocco streamed into Ceuta. It ignited a political storm in Europe and even here in the US. But who's really to blame? For more, listen to The Global Story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to NewsHour. The Nigerian government says that more than 300 people have been freed in what it's described as the largest ever kidnap rescue operation by the security forces in a single day.

24:22Joining me live is Ope Adateo, who's Western Central Africa reporter with the Associated Press News Agency. Ope, thank you for joining us here on NewsHour. What do we know about these people who were abducted? Thank you for having me. The victims of this abduction were from Kwaga and Niger. These are like farming communities in the northern central region of Nigeria. And when were they kidnapped? So for the people kidnapped in Kwaga, it happened in February. but in Niger, the details of the abduction are still very much scarce because the government did not say when they were abducted. Do we know who abducted them?

25:11Not per se. So in Nigeria's crowded feed for terror groups, these groups usually work hand in hand to carry out these major operations. But for Kwara, during the abduction, survivors spoke of militants who went to a mosque to pray and call on the residents. So that likely would appoint to a Jihadist group. And the Jihadist group working in that region is Bukwaram. And for Niger, we don't work at Karadipoša. Okay, so at least some of these kidnappers are thought to be jihadists, but others, what is the suggestion that these are sort of criminal gangs who are just trying to kidnap people for money?

26:04Yes. So in Nigeria, you have two categories of militants. You have the Jihadist group and you have this Amo Force group who engage in large scale kidnapping from ransom enterprises. They are typically called bandits. Right. Does the fact that the security forces say that they've rescued, you know, 300 or so, more than 300 people, Does that suggest that the security forces, which have been hugely criticised for their response to the insecurity across great swathes of the country, are they getting better at their job? in my in my opinion um i would say it's a good thing that they are undertaking this rescue because they are much um it is a much better outcome than they're not being rescued at all but i would also admit that they should have been you know um adopted in the first place if security operatives have done their job.

27:12Nigeria is a very large landscape and most of where these abductions are taking place, if you look at the map, are like in the wide, wide west of the rural areas where there is little to no presence of security operatives, which makes the abduction very easy and possible. Opey Adateyo, Western Central Africa reporter at the Associated Press. Thank you very much. Your News Hour. It's live from the BBC in London. I'm Tim Franks. There are pictures on the BBC News website, mobile phone footage, which we have verified, that show a vast pool of black smoke over the city of Yaroslavl. It's northeast of Moscow.

27:56Yaroslavl is home to one of Russia's biggest oil refineries. And this isn't the first time the city's come under attack by drones sent across several hundred kilometers by Ukraine. But it is, according to the governor of Yaroslavl, the largest attack yet. Katie Livingston is Ukraine correspondent for the Military Times and joins us now live from Kiev. Katie, what more information do you have about this attack on Yaroslavl? Right. Russia's own authorities are saying this is the biggest drone strike in that region. And it's, you know, maybe the culmination, let's say, of this summer campaign by Ukrainian officials to really take out as much of Russian logistical capacity as it can to front to both fund and provide what's needed on the front lines.

28:50In fact, Ukraine has succeeded in hitting all 11 of Russia's biggest oil refineries in the last month or two. I mean, given that it is a familiar tactic now, and it seems very successful tactic by Ukraine to go after these oil refineries, I'm slightly surprised. I mean, I realize Russia is a big country, but presumably they, you know, they obviously know where their major oil refineries are, that then they're not better defended against these drones. Right. Well, you know, this is absolutely not a new tactic. It's exactly what Russia has been doing against Ukrainian infrastructure for years, and particularly this last winter that was so rough because Russian drones were targeting Ukrainian infrastructure.

29:29Now, the problem, of course, is that infrastructure is immovable. It's a much more difficult target to protect than troops or materials like that. And so Russia now is facing that exact same problem. Ukraine couldn't do these attacks before because it didn't have the same long range capabilities, drone capabilities that it has now. Now that it does, the tables are turned. Well, up to a point, though, because presumably, I mean, the very fact that Russia is able to launch a large number of ballistic missile attacks, which Ukraine is finding it increasingly difficult to defend against, means that Russia still retains a very significant advantage.

30:08Absolutely. And this is the gap that Russia is exploiting right now. Ukraine, a lot of experts have said, analysts have said that has drone dominance in a lot of ways. It takes 75 percent of Russian casualties or more are drone caused, etc. And the ballistic missiles are the only real gap right now in Ukrainian defenses. And that's why so many officials are almost begging now, begging allies for anything they have, because, of course, you know, everyone is afraid of ballistic attacks. But it's Ukraine that's suffering them a few times a week. And it's deadly. It's horrible. Katie Livingston, very good to have you back on NewsHour.