Search for Venezuela's quake survivors continues

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0:42Hello and welcome to NewsHour. It's coming to you live from the BBC World Service studios in central London. I'm Tim Franks. For the people of northern Venezuela, this is a catastrophe that is felt at the closest scale. legs clambering across shattered buildings, hands trying to pry slabs of concrete, ears straining to hear any sounds from within. For the rest of us who haven't seen the devastation close up, maybe it's something to be reckoned with, at least to begin with, from much further back. Footage from drones show whole neighbourhoods, not just destroyed, but it looks as if they've been smeared, like a fragile clay model smashed by a forearm.

1:25So far, nearly 1 ,500 are confirmed to have died from last week's double earthquakes. But that's the key thing. Those huge tremors ripped across the landscape last week, four and a half days ago to be precise. And tens of thousands of people have thought still to be missing, with many collapsed buildings yet to be searched. There are some miraculous exceptions, such as the mother who was pulled from the rubble of her wrecked home in the northern coastal region of La Guaira, with her 18-day-old baby. Diana has been speaking to the BBC about her rescue and that of her newborn son, Juan David.

2:05I felt like I was flying through the air. I felt like I'd landed in water and dirt and then I fell into a pit. I don't know how I didn't let go of my baby. Everything was about my baby. He was my motivation for me to be awake and alert. But as long as he was alive, I was going to be alive. Every now and then I touched his nose to check he was still breathing. Diana Patino speaking to the BBC. But far more widespread has been the picture of devastation and desolation. Correspondent Will Grant joins me live from the capital, Caracas. And Will, I know that we're going to hear your report from one of the worst hit places from the earthquakes.

2:51But tell me, what's the latest picture from where you're speaking right now? Well, Venezuelans, or rather the residents of the capital, Caracas, Tim, woke up to an aftershock, a really significant aftershock that really jangled nerves, as you can imagine. I was at the hospital in the city that had received so many casualties in the immediate aftermath of those twin earthquakes. And we were speaking to one of the paediatric members of staff and she said the children just started to scream, saying it's happening again, it's happening again. She said they're so traumatised. The thing is, of course, some of them, the majority, thankfully, have been reunited with at least one parent.

3:40Others, unfortunately, are now orphaned. They are still, though, the lucky ones on some level because outside there is a list, a long list, just stuck to the walls in various different pages of just missing people. And so it is an incredibly bleak picture. The Venezuelan population is scarred by this, obviously, and it's so still in the moment of just survival, of looking for missing loved ones, of holding on to hope, even though those hopes are increasingly forlorn. And people recognise that, but nevertheless, they're still pulling at the rubble with their bare hands at times in an attempt to try to reach their missing relatives.

4:25it's genuinely tragic and heartbreaking to witness. I'm sure it is, Will. And just in terms of, I mean, you mentioned that you were at the hospital, one of the hospitals earlier on today. I mean, last time I was in Venezuela, I saw hospitals absolutely hollowed out by the economic collapse, and that was years ago. I wonder what shape they're in now. Yeah, that's absolutely accurate. I mean, because things have been so underfunded for so long, this is happening in a context, a socioeconomic context that's so difficult already. A political context too. I mean, let's not forget what's happened just this year with airstrikes in Caracas by Washington, the removal of the sitting president, Nicolas Maduro.

5:09So this is already a very, very difficult time to the country and now it's focusing and now it's having to deal with this. And as you've mentioned, the actual devastation in like the place I was, Catia del Mar, while it was made very clear to me through the lens of one single small business.

5:30When the twin earthquake struck Venezuela, a small Chinese supermarket in the town of Catia del Mar was full, with the owners, employees, customers and some of their children inside. The building came down in seconds, giving most of them no chance to escape. Since then, their neighbours have worked day and night to find them in the rubble. Using pickaxes in their bare hands, they had some initial success, dragging out the injured owner. But mostly it has just been bodies, including the owner's wife and child. Three victims remain inside.

6:11One of them is Rosa Rocha's niece. She was an employee at the supermarket, and Rosa is hopeful they recover her remains to give her a dignified burial.

6:24This is nothing compared to what's happened over there, though, says Rosa bluntly, indicating across the highway. Every single building has gone down, entire apartment blocks down. This place has collapsed. This is one of so many examples. Small business, completely collapsed. burnt out, and only now, days after the impact of the twin earthquakes, is any heavy machinery coming to lend a hand. Everything has been done by hand by neighbours.

7:01Watching the recovery operation was Simon Odas from Caracas. The last time his cousin was seen was entering this shop. But he simply doesn't know for sure if he's among the victims, and the uncertainty is killing him.

7:19It's like you're drowning or you're burning, he says. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. There are no words for it. I feel enormous desperation. At the partially destroyed bus terminal in Cadillamar, a field hospital has been set up in the car park. Doctors and nurses from all over Venezuela have volunteered to give free treatment to the injured. Maria Carolina Ramon is a medical technology expert who brought in much-needed portable equipment. How big a task is this field hospital facing? It's huge. I have been coming here for the past three days. Thank God today the volume decreased, so we don't have as many people as the day yesterday and the day before yesterday, but it was huge.

8:05There were a lot of people who were helped, not only in the medical field, but also they provide food and clothes to all the people who lost everything. The hospital was set up by a private clinic in conjunction with the health ministry. The food donation point outside was also private agribusiness working with the state, not traditionally a friendly relationship in Venezuela. But Ms. Ramon says to tackle this tragedy, politics must be put aside. One of the things that characterise most the Venezuelans is that it doesn't matter what party you are from, when hard times comes, everybody got it together.

8:39And it doesn't matter if you're wealthy or you're poor, everybody comes together and everybody helps. And these are the hardest of hard times? Yes, it is. The experience that we had the past Wednesday was the longest minute of our life. And that report from our correspondent Will Grant in northern Venezuela. Well, listening to all that has been Elliot Abrams, the former US Special Representative for Venezuela during the first Trump administration. Mr Abrams, thank you very much for your time here on News Air. A lot of frustration, as we've been hearing, with the way in which this Venezuelan government has been responding or failing to respond to this disaster.

9:16What do you make of how far the US should be trying to sort of force the Venezuelan government in some way to make a better fist of things? Well, we should be asking it to do better, but I don't think there is much realistic chance of that. This government is an undemocratic regime, a corrupt regime, a brutal regime that the vast majority of Venezuelans reject. And I don't think they're going to be able to do very much more than they're doing right now. The disaster response has been mostly from foreign aid and from Venezuelans helping each other, not the government. You, from what I understand, I mean, you supported the idea of getting rid of Nicolas Maduro, which the US Special Forces managed to do earlier this year.

10:14But I mean, you haven't been impressed with with Delcey Rodriguez up to now, nor indeed the sort of the policy that it seems to have emanated from Donald Trump downwards to sort of throw in their lot with Delcey Rodriguez. And I just wonder if that, in a sense, is holding back perhaps some leverage that the U.S. could exercise against her or with her in order to try and encourage a better response. Well, I would separate the two things. I think the United States, the Trump administration, is making a mistake in continuing to support her rather than supporting democracy in Venezuela. That is, rather than calling now for free elections.

10:58But I would separate that from the earthquake and earthquake relief. The government isn't really at this point, after 20 years in power, able to do much more to help Venezuelans than it is doing. It doesn't have, as your correspondents were saying, it doesn't have the equipment. It doesn't have the infrastructure. So I don't know what more can be done. And I do think Venezuelans will, when this tragedy is behind them in the next few days, when rescue efforts are over, sadly, I think they will take the measure of this terrible regime. Well, I suppose there's one question about whether the US should now then use this and this appalling natural disaster to try and push Delcey Rodriguez towards calling elections.

11:50But I suppose the more immediate question is whether I think so far this administration has pledged something like$150 million. But I mean, obviously, you know, it could offer a lot more than that. And whether given the new relationship between Venezuela, Caracas and Washington, perhaps they ought to. Well, it's interesting that$150 million is not being given to the government of Venezuela. to Delcio Rodriguez is being given to the Catholic Church, save the children, to the United Nations. Why? Because I think no one trusts the regime to be able to use it. We could, that is the U.S., could give Venezuela more of the oil income that it is now beginning to get from exporting oil.

12:39But again, the question is, if you gave that money to the regime, would it in fact redound to the benefit of the people of Venezuela? We've seen this happen in the past in Mexico, in Nicaragua and other places where a regime really steals a lot of the money and uses a lot of it inefficiently. I think, unfortunately, the Trump administration has tied itself to this regime. This is an opportunity to untie themselves and I wonder if they'll take it. Elliot Abrams, former US Special Representative for Venezuela during the first Trump administration, thank you very much for joining us here on NewsHour we do have a live page up on our website bbc.com forward slash news with all the latest updates including the news that a 21 year old man has been pulled from the rubble after being trapped for 106 hours

13:38also coming up on the program And the people of Gaza still dreaming of rebuilding their lives out of the rubble, such as this sports reporter. Why do I have to live under those conditions? Why can't I just live normally like the other 8 billion around the world and build an online career, whether it's in Gaza or anywhere else? That report about the people of Gaza trying to rebuild, that's coming up in about 20 minutes or so. Our main headline this hour, Schools in Venezuela are to remain closed for another week as hopes fade of finding more survivors of the devastating double earthquake. The Democratic Republic of Congo has recorded a sharp rise in Ebola cases.

14:21And South Africa's president has called for calm ahead of a deadline set by anti-immigration protesters for undocumented migrants to leave.

14:38This is New Zaha, live from the BBC. I'm Tim Frax. Violence between Pakistan and Afghanistan has flared again. Dozens died on Sunday, depending on who you listen to. They were either militants, as the Pakistani government claimed, or civilians, as Afghanistan's Taliban government claimed. What we do know is that these Pakistani military operations were launched in response to what Islamabad says are insurgents given shelter and support by the government in Kabul. Professor Michael Semple is the former European Union Deputy Representative to Afghanistan. The air raids were a response by Pakistan to a high-profile terrorist attack in the southern port city of Karachi on Saturday.

15:22The Pakistani authorities claim to have struck bases which are used by the anti-state Islamist group, which was behind the attacks on Saturday. But the overall conflict between Pakistan and Afghan Taliban-backed militant groups never really went away. This is a flare-up, not a new conflict. Right, a flare-up. But I guess, I mean, apart from the fact that obviously dozens have died, Afghans say that they were civilians, the Pakistanis say that they were militants. But beyond those deaths, how far is there a concern that this could presage something more widespread? The conflict has not been settled.

16:07It continues, even if it's only high profile operations like the one in Karachi and then air raids like these, which catch global media attention. People are being killed every day. It really reminds us of how once you get this kind of proxy conflict underway with groups which are backed by states but not actually formally responsible in the same way that states are, more than two states involved, it's incredibly difficult to stop them. And what is the evidence that the Taliban government in Afghanistan is actively backing this group, the TTP and others who are carrying out these inciscent attacks inside Pakistan?

16:54Pakistani Taliban fighters move around quite openly inside Afghanistan. They certainly collect funds there. They probably receive training and weapons. And in this case, of course, the Pakistanis claim to have captured an Afghan alive in the operation in Karachi, who they say confessed to having been trained in Afghanistan before crossing the border to conduct the attack. There are quite a few thousand Pakistani militants involved in the operations when fighting against the Pakistan security forces. And they do crisscross the border from Afghanistan. It would be very hard for the Taliban to properly conceal them.

17:42This is not a small operation. It's a large operation. Given the logistical difficulties of sort of stopping this insurgency and given also perhaps some of the broader strategic reasons why there may be a desire to stoke this conflict, what do you make of the efforts that there have been, the outside efforts at mediation by countries like Qatar and China? I mean, do you think they have any hope of success? So far, they have managed to get token promises from both sides, but then not got any lasting agreement. Ultimately, the Pakistanis say that they are holding out for essentially a complete winding down of the operations by the militants from Afghanistan into Pakistan.

18:33They're clear on those demands. The Taliban have shown no ability or inclination to meet them. In the meantime, You've had occasional short-term ceasefires, but no real end of the conflict. I think only when there is a major change of heart from the Afghan Taliban being prepared to act as responsible state actors, catch up with their neighbours rather than host and support these kind of militant groups, only then is it likely to be a resolution. And that was Michael Semple from the Institute of Global Peace, Security and Justice at Queen's University, Belfast.

19:15Most of us have opened a drawer at home or maybe even at work and thought, oh, I'd forgotten about that. Or indeed, what even is that? And just that very normal act has in Cambridge turned up a unique discovery. The first fossil bone ever found in Antarctica. It had been collected 40 years ago, but was, it seems, ignored until now. Professor Paul Barrett is a paleontologist at the Natural History Museum in London and joins us now on the line. And Professor Barrett, welcome to NewsHour. But I think you were instrumental in, well, if not the discovery, certainly the interpretation. Tell me what happened.

19:58Certainly not the discovery. The bone was actually picked up by a field crew from the British Antarctic Survey in 1985, who were conducting work down in Antarctica looking at the geology. And they collected this bone, noted it in their field notes at the time as something unusual, but brought it back to Cambridge where it was incorporated into the collections of the British Antarctic Survey. But because they had no fossil reptile specialists on their staff at the time, it basically got left in a drawer catalogued and no one had a second look at it. why was the second look taken again a new colleague of mine took over curating that collection and he does have a background in these kinds of fossils recognized it as something slightly unusual and then contacted me and together we worked to try and find out what this thing actually was right and when you when you did first look at it i mean how long did it take you to think and with what certainty this is a dinosaur honestly uh it didn't take me very long we're very lucky although we only have a single bone it has a very characteristic shape first of all we know it's a tailbone from its general proportions and overall build but it has a couple of features in particular its back end and its front end have formed this kind of ball and socket joint which is unique to a particular type of dinosaur so we're able to narrow down its identification very quickly right i mean it's an amazing story but i have to say one of the things that struck me and I you know concede I am no paleontologist but is that there were dinosaurs on Antarctica?

21:33Yeah it's amazing to think when we think of it today as a very cold and kind of difficult place to live but 80 million years ago when this dinosaur was alive it was actually very different. There's no permanent ice on Antarctica at all and although it would have still been fairly cold in the winter and this dinosaur may well have occasionally seen snow and would have certainly had some very long dark nights. The continent at that time was clothed in a very lush forest. So plenty of vegetation for those big herbivorous dinosaurs to chew on. I had absolutely no idea. But nonetheless, I guess finding dinosaur bones in Antarctica is still pretty rare.

22:12It is, because obviously it's hard to work there in the first place. The conditions are extremely difficult. So although some other dinosaurs have been found since this one, It's a fairly low number and only around 10 other dinosaurs have been named from the continent in the last 40 years. So it's really hard work finding and extracting those fossils in these very extreme environments. Well, this is a triumph of perseverance and, of course, of your expertise. Is this now, I mean, just going to go back into the collection or is there sort of further research to be done? for now it's going to go back into the collection where it'll be looked after for other researchers to look at but we live in hope that other crews that are going down to Antarctica and doing work there all the time will find some more complete remains and we'll be able to find out a lot more about how this animal looked and something more about its biology and how it lived in these kinds of difficult environments and just for the record because we do like to keep things complete here on news out.

23:13Please tell me what the species of this dinosaur was. We don't know the exact species because there's not enough of it to really distinguish it from lots of others. But we do know there is a type of dinosaur called a titanosaur, a very long neck dinosaur that walked on all fours that was a vegetarian. Professor Paul Barrett, thank you very much and many congratulations for your discovery. How has America shaped the world? I'm Asma Khaled, host of the Global Story podcast from the BBC. As the United States marks its 250-year anniversary, we've been exploring the surprising and often hidden ways the U.S.

23:53has shaped the modern world. And today on the show, we answer your questions about this moment and what to expect in the years to come. From the BBC, it's the United States at 250. Listen to The Global Story on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

24:13BBC News with Emily Thomas. More international assistance is arriving in Venezuela, where rescue efforts are continuing after last week's devastating double earthquake. A 21-year-old has become the latest person to be dragged out from under the rubble, despite fading hopes of finding people alive. Nerves have been further frayed by a large aftershock, although no further damage was reported. Congolese officials have reported a sharp rise in Ebola cases, despite increasing efforts to counter the outbreak. Almost 50 new infections were reported on Saturday. The South African president Cyril Ramaphosa has appealed for calm ahead of planned anti-immigration protests on Tuesday.

24:57He said violence would not be tolerated. Thousands of migrants have already left, fearing persecution. Five people have been shot dead at a youth centre in the northern German city of Stade. Two people have been arrested, including the suspected shooter. President Trump says Iran has requested a meeting to take place on Tuesday in the Qatari capital, Doha. Top US negotiators Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff are due to attend. The man expected to become Britain's next Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, has promised to radically rewire the British state by devolving power away from London. In a speech in Manchester, where he served as mayor, he promised to bring growth to every part of the country.

25:39A court in Russia has jailed the owner and two employees of an LGBT nightclub accused of being involved in the activities of an extremist organisation. It's the first case under a ban on what Russian officials describe as the international LGBT movement. Tennis and on Wimbledon's opening day, Yannick Sinner has begun his bid for his second title a year after winning his first. The Italian is playing Serbia's Miromir Kaczmanovic, the world number 51, on centre court. World News from the BBC. Welcome back to News App. The first knockout game in the World Cup has delivered a small bit of sporting history.

26:20Co-host Canada in beating South Africa 1-0 has progressed further than they ever have. And they were the first World Cup host nation ever to play a knockout game on foreign soil because they played and won in Los Angeles. Kevin McEnany is a sports journalist in Toronto, Canada. Kevin, welcome back to the programme. How much of a deal is this in Canada? Thanks, Tim. Yeah, huge deal here in Canada. Amazing scenes all over the country yesterday. Canada, as you were saying there, they've never got this far before. So it's a big moment for them. The goal Stefan Estakio scored in the last few minutes to win the game.

27:02That's going to go down in Canadian sport and history. And there's just there's so much excitement around the country. Well, that's terrific to hear. And I don't want to sound sort of sceptical and sour about this, but is it really all over the country? Because I did. I saw this headline of this piece in the Globe and Mail, the main newspapers saying Canadian heroes create World Cup magic enthralling the entire globe, which is maybe putting it a bit strongly. But really, I mean, given that, you know, football, soccer isn't the number one sport, has it seized people's imaginations? Yeah, well, I think after yesterday, it certainly will be.

27:42I know, look, spiritually, Canada will always be hockey country. But in the urban centres like Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, these sort of places, soccer is huge. It's actually the number one participatory sport among Canadians, especially younger people. so the challenge for Canada as a country is to translate all this enthusiasm from yesterday into something more meaningful on a soccer sort of stage and yeah I think if you were a bit sceptical before yesterday people will have been won over by those beautiful scenes And in terms of the next opponents could be the Netherlands, could be Morocco Canada will find out today I mean I'm reluctant to resort to the cliches but do you think this is a team that can play without fear?