In short
NewsHour episode covering Spain’s deadly wildfire in Almería, plus other international segments (Gaza World Cup screenings, foreign fighters for Russia in Ukraine, a Bayeux Tapestry exhibition, a dinosaur discovery in Thailand, and a UK medical trial for twin-twin transfusion syndrome).
Guests and backgrounds
- Fernando Sedano: Spain forester; team leader at the EU European Commission Joint Research Centre wildfire team, mapping/predicting wildfire spread.
- Lucinda Courtois: British holidaymaker in Almería; fled with family from the villa area.
- Riaz Chaitan: Courtois’s partner; described evacuation routes and fire speed.
- Jack Lovegrove: PhD dinosaur researcher at London’s Natural History Museum; discussed Thailand dinosaur fossils.
- Elisabeth van Houtz: Cambridge medieval historian; discussed Bayeux Tapestry’s UK loan.
- Professor Christophe Lees: Imperial College fetal medicine head; led HIFU trial for twin-twin transfusion syndrome.
- Olga Ivshina: BBC Russian; reported verified deaths of foreigners fighting for Russia.
- Arkady Ostrovsky: The Economist Russia/Eastern Europe editor; discussed oligarch Andrei Melnichenko’s views.
- Mohamed Mahmoud Skaik: Gaza photojournalist; reported World Cup crowds and aid-worker death.
Key claims (wildfire)
- At least 12 dead; many missing; officials suspect four British tourists.
- Fire spread rapidly due to strong winds; affected mainly agricultural/mixed landscapes around Los Gallardos, not mostly forest.
- European wildfire monitoring uses satellite updates up to eight times daily to guide evacuation/extinction decisions.
Notable examples
- Courtois family: evacuated within 30 minutes; saw flames along the ridge; described “wall of fire” driving.
- Sedano: said <2% burn area was forest; highlighted populated centers near fuel.
- Gaza: World Cup screenings brought brief joy; organiser Mohamed Al-Wahidi killed in an Israeli strike.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VODevastating Wildfires in Almeria
0:45 to 3:06
Discussion on the severe wildfires affecting Almeria, Spain, and their deadly impact.
“Wildfire season in southern Europe is here already, and feeling the most deadly force of seasonal blazers amid the latest record-breaking heatwave is Almeria in the south of Spain.”
Personal Accounts of Evacuation
3:06 to 8:12
Lucinda and Riaz share their terrifying experience of fleeing from the wildfire.
“For the last couple of hours, we've been driving towards the site of this wildfire, but we've just stopped at the side of the road here because of what we saw out the window.”
Expert Insight on Wildfire Trends
8:12 to 13:08
Fernando Sedano discusses the changing nature of wildfires and their increasing severity in Europe.
“I asked him what he'd noticed first about the fire in Almeria.”
Discovery of New Dinosaur Species
14:00 to 15:10
Learn about the discovery of a new dinosaur species from Thailand and its significance.
“Satellite images show the rate of deforestation in the Brazilian Amazon continued to slow in the first half of this year, reaching its lowest level in a decade.”
Paleontologist Insights on Euragosaurus
15:10 to 18:12
Insights from paleontologist Jack Lovegrove on the characteristics of Euragosaurus.
“I asked him what else we knew about this new species.”
Bayeux Tapestry's Historical Context
18:12 to 21:03
Explore the history and cultural significance of the Bayeux Tapestry as it arrives in London.
“at the Natural History Museum here in London.”
Reactions to the Bayeux Tapestry in the UK
21:03 to 23:21
Historian Elisabeth van Houtz discusses British reactions to the Bayeux Tapestry exhibition.
“So the English people became tenants of the land that they thought they owned, and that was a huge, huge shock.”
Medical Breakthrough for Identical Twins
23:21 to 24:29
Learn about a new non-invasive treatment developed for a serious condition in identical twins.
“Iran has buried its former supreme leader after a six-day funeral procession, while still exchanging strikes with the US.”
Professor's Explanation of New Treatment
24:29 to 27:32
Professor Christophe Lees explains the new ultrasound treatment for twin-twin transfusion syndrome.
“Bryony Garrett is a mother of twins whose lives were saved using this pioneering technique.”
Impact of War on Non-Russian Nationals
27:32 to 28:00
Discussion on the casualties of non-Russian nationals fighting in the Ukraine conflict.
“Some of the most reliable figures on the number of people killed fighting in the war in Russia, the war in Ukraine started by Russia, come from the BBC Russian service, which continually monitors reliable sources.”
Show all 20 chapters
Foreign Nationals Fighting for Russia
28:00 to 29:50
Learn about non-Russian nationals involved in combat for Russia and a specific case of a Kenyan recruit.
“is news that at least 3 ,589 non-Russian nationals have lost their lives fighting for Russia since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine began.”
Verification of Casualty Figures
29:50 to 31:40
Discover how casualty figures for Russian fighters are verified and the challenges in assessing foreign deaths.
“and the brave little team of volunteers, we are counting number of soldiers who died fighting on the Russian side in Ukraine.”
Recruitment Strategies of the Russian Army
31:40 to 33:50
Examine the various stages of recruitment for foreign fighters in the Russian military and their motivations.
“And the first one was actually from jails.”
Conflicting Death Toll Estimates
33:50 to 35:20
Explore differing estimates of Russian military casualties and discuss the limitations of available data.
“that estimates that between 400 ,000 and 450 ,000 Russian troops have been killed.”
Russian Oligarchs and War Insights
35:20 to 38:15
Learn about oligarch Andrei Melnichenko's views on the war and the potential future of Russia.
“the kind of person who has all hours access to Vladimir Putin in the Kremlin, has spoken and written at length to The Economist newspaper.”
Discontent Among Russian Elites
38:15 to 40:39
Discuss the growing discontent among Russian elites and the implications for the future of the country.
“And I think they now feel Russia is in such a dire place that they need, you know, it's facing a crisis and they need to do something about it.”
World Cup Joy in Gaza Amid Tragedy
40:39 to 42:04
Explore the impact of the World Cup on Gaza's residents amidst ongoing conflict and tragedy.
“You're listening to NewsHour, live from the BBC.”
Gaza's Connection to the World Cup
42:04 to 46:37
Learn about the significance of World Cup games for the people of Gaza amid their struggles.
“This is a way for the people of Gaza to leave behind their tragedies, their displacement, the destruction.”
The Impact of Mohamed Al-Wahidi's Death
46:37 to 47:11
Explore the reactions to the death of a beloved humanitarian worker in Gaza.
“Sometimes, during all the violence, it must have seemed that Gaza had little connection to the outside world.”
World Cup Match Update
47:11 to 47:58
Get an update on the current World Cup quarterfinal match between Spain and Belgium.
“We are fast approaching full-time in the World Cup quarterfinal between Spain and Belgium.”
Transcript
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0:30bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
0:40Hello, welcome to the programme. This is News Hour from the BBC World Service. I'm Paul Henley, coming to you live from London. Wildfire season in southern Europe is here already, and feeling the most deadly force of seasonal blazers amid the latest record-breaking heatwave is Almeria in the south of Spain. At least 12 people there are known to have died. Many more are still missing. Local officials believe four victims found in a car were British tourists. Hundreds of emergency responders are working to contain the flames. Now, the blaze changes direction with the wind, and online footage shows fire engines arriving to confront advancing flames while helicopters dump water from above.
1:27This fire spread rapidly, particularly in a wooded area around the town of Los Gallardos in the province of Almería. Its mayor, Francisco Reyes, Ted said the authorities were working hard to get people in areas still at risk to safety. The fire started and has spread very quickly. We have had to evacuate residents from Almucaiza and residents from Beda, and now we are heading towards the campsite because the wind is blowing from the west and it's going to reach the campsite where we also have 400 to 500 people. We are very concerned because houses are burning. These residents have been moved out of the area as an emergency, the area affected by the fire in Los Gallados.
2:17That was really awful, really awful. Gas cylinders exploding, everything. houses on fire, windows shattering. Because there are witnesses. They were caught in a large villa in the middle of a pine forest and they got away by the skin of their teeth.
2:37It gave me a right fright. I didn't even have time to react. It happened so fast. The fire was like a Formula One car.
2:48I see that it is very bad, awful, A disaster not just for the woodland, but for the people who've already died and everything that has happened. The house right up there above has burned completely. It rips your soul out. This is what you're left with. I had 600 orange trees. Well, our Europe correspondent Nick Beak reports now from the scene of the wildfire. For the last couple of hours, we've been driving towards the site of this wildfire, but we've just stopped at the side of the road here because of what we saw out the window. flames up there on the hillside this part of spain is still burning despite the fact that just a few seconds ago we saw the firefighters go overhead and they were dumping large amounts of water on those flames it seems to the naked eye to have made an impact very very briefly but the problem is here with the wind and the surroundings being so dry here the fire spreads extremely quickly and And that is what happened overnight with this devastating fire.
3:52We know at least 12 people killed, dozens missing. And so this place is really, really trying to work out what happened. But they're concerned about what may come in the coming days and weeks. But for now, a lot of people, they're in grief. They're in shock, really, after what's happened. The BBC's Nick Beak. Well, British family Lucinda Courtois, her partner Riaz Chaitan and their teenage children have a holiday home close to where these fires started. Last night they fled the area, as Lucinda first told NewsHour's Sean Lay. We were at our holiday home at the villa and we had a call from my father just before half seven just letting us know that there were rumours of a fire and possible precautionary evacuation and we were just getting in the pool.
4:42Riaz and his son, Zach, had just arrived a few hours before. And within 10 minutes of that call, there were billows of black clouds coming over the ridge of the hills. And over the ridge to the side, we could suddenly see massive clouds, black clouds. And we were still in the pool and sort of suddenly said, we'd better maybe move. And then we heard from some neighbours that evacuation was happening and it was imminent. The kids went up to the top of the house and said they could see flames along the ridge, which we couldn't see from the pool. So we packed up and pretty much ran. And I would say within 30 minutes of the initial call from my dad, we were driving into the wall of fire.
5:21Riaz, it must have been quite terrifying. It was. And the road that we were taking is actually the main road down. So when you start driving down that road and there's fire both sides, that's what hits you that this could go really wrong. And luckily there were two coaches coming down as well, evacuating people who had to stop and turn around as well. So at some point you realised you couldn't get through that way. Yeah, so Lucinda was driving, she came onto the road, we went round the corner and all of a sudden there was just fire and you thought, stop straight away. We turned the car around and had to go back on ourselves and then you start thinking, is the fire, are we driving into the fire in a different way now?
5:56Which gets quite scary. How were the children reacting to this? I mean, what sort of age are the children you have between the two of you? 116, 117. I think there was definitely a silence in the car because I think everyone realised how serious the situation was. What have been the previous experiences? I mean, there have been wildfires in southern Spain before, of course, but is there a kind of a change in mood over this issue? Are people more concerned now than perhaps in previous years? Yeah, there was a fire, I can't remember exactly, maybe 15 years ago that was quite serious then, but I don't believe any deaths.
6:34everybody's very aware on the mountain about how dry it is and that no one can use power tools and everybody has to be careful and there's no outside fires but there's been significant loss of life we've lost family friends close family friends so there's a lot of people at the hotel we're at and yeah people are shattered they've lost you know well they don't know if they've lost their homes because none of us have allowed back so we don't know what's gone and what's not the other question I suppose just on that, do you have people you know who are still unaccounted for? We did, but we've just heard that they've been found dead.
7:08That must have been a terrible shock, what you'd feared, I guess, but even so hearing it so definitively. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know what to say. It's horrific. Yeah. The other thing I suppose, Riaz, is what kind of official communication there has been over the last 24 hours. Have you heard anything or people pretty much relying on word of mouth between each other, WhatsApp groups and just kind of trying to monitor local radio and television? There is a local Wildfire Watch app, which has been really good. So people post on there. There's a mix of official communications on there and people posting saying, I've got a house you can come and stay in or there's a farm or something to go to.
7:51the official communications have been i'd say fairly minimal but given what they're doing and how quick it's changing i don't think any of us got an issue with that because they've got there are planes constantly flying above us with water in them the helicopters with water going through there's about nearly 200 firemen trying to fix this as well so we're getting that information that they're doing it but no information about how bad it is in radar or when we can get back to the house if we can get back to the house even lucinda rears you're in a hotel now i guess there are a lot of people in the same situation as you loads there's a lot here in the hotel with us and people just scattered wherever they could they could get to but you know a lot of the people here they don't know if they've got their homes we were lucky we were on holiday but for other people it's there it's their whole whole life lucinda curto is in almeria at the joint research center of the european commission there's a team that analyzes data to map and predict the spread of wildfires across Europe.
8:49Fernando Sedano is team leader. He's from Spain. He's a forester by training. I asked him what he'd noticed first about the fire in Almeria. For many years, we've been thinking about forest fires. This fire in Almeria is not a forest fire. Less than 2 % of the burn area is forest. We are talking about agricultural landscapes, a mixed landscape of natural vegetation, olive trees or other trees. This is an area where we have populated centres scattered across the landscape. And this makes it very tough to plant and fight because you have a lot of population close to the vegetation, to the fuel. Other than that, this fire has been very, very fast because there were strong winds in the area.
9:34And can you confirm that the number of fires breaking out in recent years has increased? What other information? Are they going further north? Are they happening earlier in the season? The total number of fires has not necessarily increased, but the number of large, very large fires seems to be increasing in the last years. It is also true that fires and large fires are taking place at latitudes where they didn't take place before. While back in the days we thought about wildfires as a problem in southern Europe, now we know that fires are happening at higher latitudes. France, the UK had some big fires last year.
10:172018 was particularly bad in Sweden, for instance. And they tend to be associated with the end of long, dry summers. We're just at the beginning of this summer. Is that different? This year has been different in a sense that we had our first heat wave very early in May. A lot of parts of Europe already experienced very high temperatures. I'm thinking about Portugal, Spain, France, but also Germany. We had a second heat wave in June and without no transition, we moved into July with very high temperatures. So this year's and usually in that sense, it's true, as you mentioned, that often what we see is that big fires happen later in the season as a consequence of heat waves that happen later in the season and the cumulative effect of the heat waves that happened before.
11:08This year, we are a bit unknown. And what practical difference can your research and your forecasts make? The fact that we have been collecting information for such a long time in a consistent way is what is allowing us to identify these patterns and these trends at European scale. But if we look more into the day-to-day, we are basically monitoring fires with satellite images. And we are able to identify where the fires are and how these fires are behaving. We update the information up to eight times every day. So that information, knowing where the fires happen and how they are evolving, is of great use for fire managers and civil protection agencies across Europe.
11:53Great use to the extent that it can help stop fire spreading? Great use to the extent that it can help making decisions related to fire extinction or evacuation of population, these kind of things. based on how fires are evolving, knowing where the critical infrastructures are, where the populated centres are, protected areas are, knowing how the weather is going to be in the coming days allows us to make decisions about this particular town may need to be evacuated or we may need to attack in this valley or we may need to retreat to this area because it's safer, this kind of operational decisions.
12:32When you see images of this fire taking your scientist's hat off for a moment. How do you react to see your home country in flames like that? Well, it's sad to say, but it's not the first time. So last year was particularly bad for Spain. So North West Spain, Spain in general, had more than 350 ,000 hectares of burn area. So over the years, this is happening and happening. So I would say that this is the reality that we need to live, or learn to live with. Fernando Sedano, who leads the wildfire team at the Joint Research Centre of the European Commission. You're listening to the BBC World Service.
13:10We're live from London. This is NewsHour.
13:35Coming up, watching the World Cup amongst the rubble of Gaza. Seeing these scenes was very encouraging. This is a way for the people of Gaza to leave behind their tragedies, their displacement. And it was a glimmer of hope. It was effectively an expression of happiness, especially seeing how popular World Cup games are. The headlines Nigeria's government says more than 20 schoolchildren and their teachers have been rescued from kidnappers by the security forces. Satellite images show the rate of deforestation in the Brazilian Amazon continued to slow in the first half of this year, reaching its lowest level in a decade.
14:16And police in Britain have arrested a man on suspicion of murdering the prominent former politician, Anne Whittacombe.
14:35I'm Paul Henley with NewsHour, live from the BBC. Paleontologists in Thailand say they've discovered a new species of dinosaur from fossils found in a province in the north-east of the country. The plant-eating dinosaur, named Aragosaurus callocinensis, is thought to have lived about 150 million years ago. It had an unusually long neck. It was 20 metres in length in the body. We can speak to Jack Lovegrove, or we heard earlier from him, a PhD researcher who studies dinosaurs at the Natural History Museum here in London. I asked him what else we knew about this new species. Did it look, because of its long neck, like a brontosaurus?
15:17This new dinosaur, Euragosaurus, belongs to a group of dinosaurs known as the sauropods, which are the long-necked iconic dinosaurs like Diplodocus brontosaurus that you mentioned. Specifically, it belongs to a group known as the Mementosaurids, which actually had the longest necks of any sauropods. So it's one of the longest necks of the long-necked dinosaurs. You could tell a lot about it from a single vertebrae, I hear. Yes, that's what I was just about to go on to. So what's cool about this dinosaur is that despite only finding one bone, one vertebrae from the back, scientists have been able to figure out not just what group of dinosaurs it belongs to, but that it is a new species and give it a new name.
15:59And it's significant as it's the first Mementosaurid to be named from Thailand, and it's only the second one to be named from outside China. So it shows that this group that we previously thought might have been restricted to China, East Asia, is actually more widely distributed. I know you weren't part of the team that discovered these remains or this fossil, but you have read the paper in detail. Tell us about the operation, the paleontologist operation to find it. Yes, so my understanding from reading about this is that actually initially the fossil site was discovered by a local farmer. So this is something that happens a lot in paleontology because there's not a huge amount of paleontologists and we can't be everywhere.
16:40that often it's members of the public find stuff, report it, and then people are able to come along and make, Hayley and Todd just able to come along and make these important discoveries. And what's cool about the locality that this dinosaur comes from is that it wasn't just one, as well as this one bone from this new dinosaur, there was a whole array of other things, so pterosaurs, crocodiles, fish, all mixed together in this one locality. All able to be dated fairly precisely? How? so we on so the dating is still a little bit up in the air based on comparisons with other faunas as i mentioned this is a group that we know from china from the end of the jurassic these momentous we think that this was probably latest jurassic but we don't i don't think they yet have radiometric dating on this formation but we're pretty sure it's late triassic maybe earliest cretaceous tell us a little bit more about the air sacs in the bone yes so with sauropods one of the things that happens with their vertebrae that makes them so easy to identify is they get air sacs coming off of the lungs, which is something we also see in birds, invade the vertebrae.
17:49And as they invade the vertebrae, they create a really distinctive pattern of bony laminations and also holes and kind of hollows in the side of the vertebrae. And so one of the things that's used to identify this new dinosaur as a new type of dinosaur is when you look at the vertebrae from the front, these laminations form a Y shape, whereas in its close relative to the Mentiosaurus, they form more of an X shape on the front. Jack Lovegrove, PhD researcher who studies dinosaurs at the Natural History Museum here in London.
18:23Another museum exhibit now, one of the most famous historical artefacts in the world, the Bayeux Tapestry, which documents the French invasion of England in 1066, has arrived in London for an exhibition at the British Museum. The masterpiece was placed in a special container to avoid vibrations and to maintain a steady temperature before it left France. For the first time in more than 900 years, it's already proving a big draw at the museum with massive advanced demand for tickets. Among the VIPs in attendance to witness the transfer of this precious cargo was Hélène Traillat-Duchene, who is France's ambassador to the UK.
19:01You know, for France, it's an extraordinary gesture, this loan of the Bayeux tapestry. It's the first time that the Bayeux tapestry is leaving the French soul and it goes to the UK. And it means something for the bilateral relation, for the fact that former enemy, because it was about battle, are now able to have this kind of trust at the moment that we are ready to lend you the Bayou tapestry. The extent to which the British public seem to take the tapestry to their hearts has surprised historian Elisabeth van Houtz. She is an Emeritus Professor of Medieval European History at the University of Cambridge.
19:50There is a profound contradiction. On the one hand, I think the British people love the object of the biotapestry, the artifact, the fact that it's an embroidery that is 900 years old, that it was made in England, that it hasn't been in England for about 900 years. Yet the story is actually is a story of William the Conqueror's conquest of England. It wasn't that he was invited to come. No, he decided that the crown of England should be his because he was a relative of King Edward, the king who had died, and by force take over this very wealthy country. And that is what he did against all the odds.
20:39Who were the Normans exactly? So the Normans were the people who lived in the province of Normandy. They were French-speaking. They themselves were immigrants from Scandinavia, but they had completely assimilated with the French population. How did England change post-1066? The people who experienced a revolutionary change were the people who were the landholders, who thought that they owned the land and the houses on them, only to find that after William the Conqueror arrived, he gave the land and the houses to his Normans and other French people who had come over with him. So the English people became tenants of the land that they thought they owned, and that was a huge, huge shock.
21:36They didn't start speaking French, but the language changed too, didn't it? Absolutely. So the incoming elites, they spoke French and they introduced Latin for documentary sources. French also became the language of the courts. A great deal of French vocabulary entered the English language. The structure of the English language remained a Germanic language, but the vocabulary increased by about a third. What do you think in the post-Brexit age now of the British public's response to having a Bayeux tapestry in this country? What do you think of it? Well, I'm surprised, I'm sort of pleasantly surprised that there is this interest in an artifact that, you know, was clearly embroidered in England by English men and women, but then has been preserved in France for 900 years.
22:35And that there is such huge enthusiasm, given the number of tickets for the exhibition that has been sold, for an embroidery that tells this rather horrific story. And in terms of Brexit, I think that Macron can certainly be very pleased with the coup that he has achieved by allowing the embroidery coming to Britain and indeed kindling so much enthusiasm for it in Britain. And that can only increase the cultural and diplomatic connections between the two countries. That was medieval historian Elisabeth van Houtz of Cambridge University. This is NewsHour.
23:45from the BBC. Iran has buried its former supreme leader after a six-day funeral procession, while still exchanging strikes with the US. The ceasefire is fragile at best. At worst, it's over. Could anything bring peace? Listen to the global story on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
24:09Welcome back to NewsHour. Medical researchers here in Britain have developed a non-invasive procedure to treat a serious condition that can affect identical twins during pregnancy. The syndrome can happen when twins share a placenta, potentially putting both of them in danger. In a moment, we'll hear from the scientist who led the study. First, Bryony Garrett is a mother of twins whose lives were saved using this pioneering technique. Being diagnosed, we were only at 12 weeks and they were already at stage three, so it was very dire. The conversations were really directed towards elective abortion and all these things that just, to me, sounded horrific.
24:46And the laser treatment was also unavailable to me due to many reasons, and I was very blessed that the consultant I saw in Bristol was aware of Dr Lees and the trial and put me forward. You know, the risks were low. The worst risk was that nothing was going to work, and I was already in that place. So for me, there was nothing to lose. Professor Christophe Lees is head of foetal medicine at Imperial College Healthcare Trust in London. What is the new syndrome this treatment has been developed for? Twin-twin transfusion syndrome is a condition that is limited to identical twins that share a placenta.
25:21So about a third of all twins are identical and about 10 % of those will develop this condition, which arises because they share a placenta and there are blood vessels that connect the two portions of the placenta from one twin to another. And that can become a problem. If the blood vessels direct blood from one twin to another, then one twin can gradually lose its circulating blood volume and it ends up transfusing, hence the twin-twin transfusion syndrome. It ends up transfusing or passing into the circulation of the other twin. And then what you can get is a complete imbalance of circulation and blood volume.
26:00So you get one baby that is constantly pumping blood around its own body and also some of this blood is escaping into the other twin and the other twin ends up suffused with blood with too much blood and fluid and then that can cause real difficulties for one or both of the twins can lead to miscarriage or injury and death so an ultrasound is an incredibly safe modality very very high power and i'm talking about thousands of times the power of standard ultrasound, directed very, very specifically to a tiny point. And we've used it from outside the mother's abdomen. So we don't need to do anything invasive at all.
26:39And that allows you to focus extremely carefully and precisely on one little area, one or two millimeters in diameter. So a blood vessel. And we can actually stop the blood flow in that blood vessel by using high-intensity focused ultrasound. The challenge is to be able to do this safely and do it effectively. So could we see the vessels in the placenta? Well, 10, 15 years ago, you couldn't. But advances in ultrasound imaging have allowed us, with very, very specific Doppler technology, to visualize tiny vessels with very low velocity flow in the placenta. And, of course, the next stage is being able to do this safely because HIFU in the wrong hands can cause complications.
Read the full transcript
27:20It can cause side effects. And so we have to be extremely careful. Unfortunately, none of the women in our series got skin burns. And that's the key thing. There is minimal or no heating. Professor Christoph Lees.
27:38This is NewsHour from the BBC. I'm Paul Henley. Some of the most reliable figures on the number of people killed fighting in the war in Russia, the war in Ukraine started by Russia, come from the BBC Russian service,
27:56which continually monitors reliable sources. Most notable, its recent findings, is news that at least 3 ,589 non-Russian nationals have lost their lives fighting for Russia since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine began. Back in December, the BBC's Anne Soy spoke to the mother of one of those believed to have been killed He's 22-year-old Kenyan David Kuloba. He travelled to Russia for what he was told was a lucrative security job. Instead, he was sent to the Ukrainian front line. Let's hear part of that interview. He showed me his phone and said, Look, it's Russia. Eh? Russia? No. Don't you see the kinds of things they show on TV about Russia?
28:42They're never good. But he insisted, Mum, I have to go. The pay is very good. We've been told that when we arrive, we'll be paid over 7 ,000 U.S. dollars. We argued and argued. I didn't even know when he left. He sent me a photo. It's here. I was shocked. He was dressed in a combat uniform. I asked him, are you sure this is the job you went to do? He told me, mom, what could I have done? The job we were told we came to do has been changed. After a few days, he told me they had been ambushed. I told him, David, please leave that place, leave that country. It is not good. He said, Mum, how can I leave?
29:33I signed a contract. Give me at least one year. Well, I've been speaking to BBC Russian's Olga Ivshina, who reports on these findings about the foreign deaths and more generally the picture of casualties? Since the first day of the invasion, together with the independent Russian media, MediaZona, and the brave little team of volunteers, we are counting number of soldiers who died fighting on the Russian side in Ukraine. So there are thousands and thousands of names. The total number verified now is 233 ,000 fighters. That's the general figure. And among those, at least 3 ,589 are foreigners who died fighting for Russia.
30:16From those, the biggest chunk are North Koreans who died fighting in Kursk region of Russia in 2024, 2025. But more than 1 ,200 foreigners from all over the world, from more than 40 countries, from Ecuador and the United States and up to Vietnam and Sri Lanka. So all over the world. How do you know this? You've got confirmed names. How do you know they're all dead? So we're only using information which we have been able to verify via open source. So we're not using information, you know, given by Western intelligence or Ukraine. We only use those which we can verify with some sources, gravestones, military memorials, relatives, etc, etc.
31:01So of course, the real numbers will be higher for both, you know, general number of deaths and foreigners. But these are numbers, first of all, you can't dispute. And secondly, because for these people, we know a lot, we know their age, where they're from, how exactly they were recruited, we can analyse. And this actually helped us to, for example, find the three main stages of recruitment of foreigners in Russia. I'm assuming almost all of these were mercenaries, they were fighting for money. Some were forcibly recruited? How come? What power do the Russian authorities have over people in Africa to fight for them?
31:35So actually, it's a bit more, you know, it's less black and white. There were three big waves, three big stages of recruitment. And the first one was actually from jails. So Russia was just actively recruiting people from jails, both Russianers and for Russians and foreigners. And there was a deal like if you fight for six or 12 months on the front line, that's it, you'll be pardoned, and you will be a free man, and even you'll get some salary on top of that. And actually, this message appealed to many Russians and foreigners, mostly from Central Asian countries. But there were also some people from Africa, for example, who signed up for that deal.
32:08But it seems that resource was mostly exhausted up to 2024. So all prisoners who wanted already joined. So then in 2024, Russia has significantly ramped up sign-up bonuses. For everyone who signed up to the Russian army, there was a huge sign-up bonus and the salary was significantly increased. So then this perspective started to appeal to many people all over the world, especially in countries which face economical troubles. For example, in Cuba, in Yemen, in Nepal. So there were very quickly some people started to work as facilitators, as mediators, and they helped to organize the recruitment.
32:45And these people started coming. So those, yes, were mostly attracted by big salaries. Some of them, it seems, were conscious. They knew where they're going, that they're going to join the army. others thought that you know maybe there will be security guards or something else or some of them were deceived but it's hard to distinguish what was the ratio between those who went consciously and who were deceived and now since 2025 it seems that the strategy has changed again and now Russia is concentrating more on migrants who came to Russia to work or to study and they're being forced put under pressure to sign contracts because they're threatened you know by torture or by being sent back home, etc.
33:25And also at the same time, Russia is ramping up recruitment in African countries, because in some other places of the world, the word spread, you know, how harsh the conditions are, how little chances you would get to survive. But in Africa, it seems the information hasn't spread yet. So the recruitment is going on. The scale of the deaths is massive. And your accounting falls well short, for instance, of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies that estimates that between 400 ,000 and 450 ,000 Russian troops have been killed. They don't have the firm evidence, presumably, that you have.
34:03Well, I think, honestly, they're using our figures as a base because, you know, each time we publish our new figures, we say that, of course, it's not the full number of losses. These are only those we managed to confirm. And we always explain that based on the evidence we get, for example, pictures from the cemeteries, pictures from the memorials, It seems that for every soldier we find, there is almost probably one soldier more, which we haven't found. So we think that we count 45, 55 percent of all losses, which brings you exactly to similar figures. So from 400 ,000 to 500 ,000 total number of deaths.
34:43So we're nearly at the stage where half a million Russian recruits have been killed in this war. That's not even counting the Ukrainian deaths. Yes, I think we're somewhere similar to that figure. So the total number, I think, is getting close to that, yes. But we concentrate on those, of course, who we were able to verify because we know a lot about them and we can analyse and we can draw certain conclusions, as opposed to, you know, those big numbers which are being quoted by Western intelligence, which are flashy, but we don't know what's behind those big figures. BBC Russian's Olga Ivshina, one of Russia's richest men, the kind of person who has all hours access to Vladimir Putin in the Kremlin, has spoken and written at length to The Economist newspaper.
35:34Andrei Melnichenko made it clear he did not speak for the Russian government, but as a deeply concerned patriot. He talks about Ukraine, Russia and the West, about a war that's gone wrong, about the need for some hard thinking about how Russia is treated if the war ends. He spoke to The Economist's Russia and Eastern Europe editor Arkady Ostrovsky. I asked Arkady about this story and he told me first more about Andrei Melnichenko and how he made his money. He is one of Russia's richest men. He is an oligarch. He describes himself as an industrialist. He is one of the largest investors indeed in Russian industry.
36:12He is the fertiliser king. He's got one of the world's largest fertiliser companies. He's also in mining and in pipelines. Now, he belongs to a new generation of Russian oligarchs. He didn't make, he didn't privatize assets in the 90s. He assembled his empire in the early 2000s with extraordinary strategic vision. He did it very fast. So in my mind, I think there are two kind of oligarchs, if you like, at the moment in Russia who matter politically. One is Roman Abramovich and the other is Andrei Milenchenko. Now, Milenchenko has been very understated and he's lived abroad. He could have treated Russia as a foreign investor and he's been out of Russia from 2004 until the full-scale invasion.
37:01so he only really returned as a result of as a result of the war as a result of sanctions and he is now in back in moscow so you know it's a very important intervention precisely because he's there he isn't like all russian tycoons he has kept his uh you know affairs out of politics that was the deal you know stay out of politics and you can enjoy your lifestyle in the west and that's exactly what he did. He was one of those globalists. And his motivation for speaking out, presumably his top priority is still making money, is it? No, well, it's always a priority, for business to make money. I think his motivation is that it's because he is back in Russia now.
37:45And as he told me, he realized it's the only country he's got. I mean, they've neglected, you know, this is the elite that's been completely stripped of any agency, depoliticized, self-excluded itself, or if you like, neglected what was going on in the country. And he's now back and he understands that his future is inevitably tied up with Russia's future. And he has to, you know, if there is any future to be had, then he has to get involved. And this is the class of people who have resources. And I think they now feel Russia is in such a dire place that they need, you know, it's facing a crisis and they need to do something about it.
38:24We've only got a couple of minutes. Let's concentrate on what he's saying. He says that Russia cannot win the war in Ukraine. How come? Well, because it's basically let Russia into a dead end. If Putin's objectives were to change security architecture in Europe, that's unachievable. It's a futile task because, you know, the Western coalition has stood by Ukraine. Putin has not really achieved any of the Gauls in this war. And they understand that instead of making Russia more secure, he's jeopardized Russia's future. And so that's what's going on. He's not suggesting that the economy is about to collapse or that people are about to rise up, but there are more murmurs of discontent.
39:07Is that right? There is discontent across all social groups in Russia at the moment. And the elites are also deeply worried about what's coming next. And I think what's lacking is any sense of future. And And I think that's what they're trying to kind of chart the path out and to imagine what the future might hold. And yes, I mean, they understand that it's now, you know, Russia's existence sort of is at stake. And that's why they're starting to speak. How will this go down in the Kremlin? Is it dangerous for him? um look any independent actor in russia is will be seen as a any claim of agency particularly by by a very rich man will you know is a challenge to the monopoly on power which has been held by the security services so is he at risk well he knows he knows what the risks are he understands that he can be perceived as as a threat to monopoly on power and he feels that the stakes are too high.
40:09And he is not challenging Putin at all. You know, he's an insider. He is trying to offer his services, if you like, to help navigate Russia out of it. Arkady Ostrovsky, who is The Economist, Russia and Eastern European Editor. This is the BBC World Service NewsHour, live from London.
40:38I'm Paul Henley. You're listening to NewsHour, live from the BBC. The Football World Cup is providing excitement and an escape from daily life for people around the world, perhaps nowhere more so at the moment than in Gaza, where thousands and thousands of people have crowded among the ruins of Gaza City, Deir al-Bala, and in Almawazi in the south to watch key games on hastily erected giant outdoor TV screens.
41:13Well, the big draw of recent days in Gaza was Egypt versus Argentina, and although that match didn't have the outcome the Gazan crowds wanted, the event had moments of shared joy, the likes of which people living in Gaza have not experienced for a long time. That joy was tarnished by the news shortly after the screening that the man, a well-known aid worker who had organised the public events, had been killed in one of the Israeli airstrikes that continue in Gaza despite a so-called ceasefire. I've been talking through a translator to Mohamed Mahmoud Skaik, the photojournalist in Gaza, who brought the images of the Gazan football crowds to the world.
41:57In this nearly three-year war scene, seeing these scenes was very encouraging. This is a way for the people of Gaza to leave behind their tragedies, their displacement, the destruction. And it was a glimmer of hope. It was a way to see how people were genuinely happy, briefly, not having to think about all the death. And it was effectively an expression of happiness, especially seeing how popular World Cup games are. Egypt matches were especially important, weren't they? Why?
42:35Egypt geographically is the closest country to Palestine and specifically to the Gaza Strip. And it is the only country we Gazans can travel to. And there is, of course, the feelings of love, the feelings of brotherhood, and the fact that Hussam Hassan, the coach, the Egyptian coach, waved the Palestinian flag. That was a major source of pride for us. We were very proud with how well they played, especially knowing that Palestine was not represented in the World Cup. Yes, some of us may have cheered for European national teams like France or Spain, but the priority has always been for the Arab national teams.
43:20And secondly, Egypt was a key provider of humanitarian and relief aid for the people of Gaza during their war. Will there be the same enthusiasm for the tournament now that Egypt is out? Where will support fall for Gazans?
43:40Obviously, after Egypt was out, we had hoped that Morocco would be able to qualify, but they were unlucky, and effectively Morocco was the last Arab national team to leave the World Cup. So Gazans now will naturally turn to people like Mbappe of France or Messi of Argentina. They will be cheering for all different teams. They don't have any collective preference. In the photos that I saw, the huge crowds watching matches in Gaza, I think every single person was male. Are there not female football fans there?
44:18No, there were female fans and young girls too. So on the one hand, because of conservative religious values in Gaza, women are not often seen in public spaces. There were small numbers of women but obviously due to the current circumstances most of them chose to stay in their tents to make sure no items were stolen or to look after their young ones or their elderly. It's usually young men who are seen outside their tents in Gaza. Tell me about the humanitarian worker who organized these screenings, Mohamed Al-Wahidi. He was killed this week, wasn't he?
45:04I personally knew Mohamed Al-Wahidi. He was my secondary school math teacher. He was loved by all. He worked with the Egyptian Humanitarian Commission and with the Committee of Mayors of Gaza. He was killed in an Israeli strike during the Egypt-Argentina match. Naturally, We will continue to show the World Cup games. The killing of Mohammed al-Wahidi is not the end. His mission will continue and he will be replaced by other people who will carry the torch. This applies as well to the journalists of Gaza. Nearly 280 of them were killed, but we continue to tell the story. This man has been described not just as an aid worker, but someone who opened the door to hope for displaced people in Gaza.
45:57What's been reaction to his death?
46:01He was killed during the game. People were obviously busy watching the game and not following the news, but we were all shocked to hear he was killed. He was one of the organisers of the World Cup game displays in Gaza. But unfortunately, this has become a daily reality. We lose loved ones, we lose aid workers, we lose sports events, organisers on a daily basis. So the massacre continues. The so-called ceasefire is not being implemented on the ground. And we keep witnessing daily assassinations and shelling. Sometimes, during all the violence, it must have seemed that Gaza had little connection to the outside world.
46:43Has that changed, do you think, during the World Cup?
46:49Yes, there was a change thanks to the close ties that the Palestinians have with the people of Morocco and Egypt. These peoples expressed or sent us messages of support, and that was a source of joy and reassurance to know that we are still being remembered by others. Gazan photojournalist Mohamed Mahmoud Skyk speaking to me earlier. through a translator. We are fast approaching full-time in the World Cup quarterfinal between Spain and Belgium. Spain are 2-1 up. They opened the scoring in the 30th minute with Fabian Ruiz. Belgium would go on to equalise thanks to Charles de Quetelera in the 41st minute.
47:28That was the first goal that the European champion Spain had conceded in the 2026 World Cup so far. However, after coming close to scoring on a number of occasions in the second half, Spain went back in front in the 88th minute. There are only two minutes of play left. Stoppage time, I believe. So a very small window of opportunity for Belgium, the team that had been buoyed by their 4-1 win over the co-hosts of the United States earlier in the competition. That was NewsHour for a Friday evening UK time. From the whole team, thank you very much for listening. Join us again soon.
48:12Thank you.
48:41On again, off again conflict, the new normal between Iran and the United States. I'm Tristan Redmond, host of the Global Story podcast from the BBC. Iran has buried its former supreme leader after a six-day funeral procession, while still exchanging strikes with the US. The ceasefire is fragile at best. At worst, it's over. Could anything bring peace? Listen to the Global Story on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
49:11Thank you.
From the publisher
The emergency services in southern Spain say they are fighting a ‘terrible and complex fire, which is spreading very fast,’ in the south-eastern province of Almería. We hear from a British couple caught up in the fire.
Also on the programme: How people in Gaza are watching the World Cup; and a new species of dinosaur has been found in Thailand.
(Picture: Flames approach the A7 highway during a deadly wildfire in Los Gallardos, Spain. Credit: REUTERS/Chema Artero)
