Trump loses Supreme Court battle to end birthright citizenship

30 Jun 2026 · 46 min · 20 chapters

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In short

The episode is a BBC NewsHour roundup focused mainly on the US Supreme Court ruling against President Trump’s attempt to end birthright citizenship. It explains that since 1868 and the 14th Amendment, babies born on US soil are automatically citizens “subject to the jurisdiction thereof,” even if parents are temporarily or unlawfully present. Guest 1: Congressman Adriano Espia, a former undocumented immigrant who became the first formerly undocumented person elected to Congress; he calls the ruling a win and says presidents can’t decide who is American. Guest 2: Jessica Levinson, constitutional law professor at Loyola Law School; she argues the court relied on the Constitution, so Congress can’t undo it by statute—only another Supreme Court case or a constitutional amendment. Guest 3: Carly Stimson, senior legal fellow at the Conservative Heritage Foundation; she says the 14th Amendment was meant to free children of emancipated blacks, and changing the ruling would require a constitutional amendment. Notable example: a Guatemalan woman granted asylum after fleeing a serial killer; she says the ruling protects her daughter’s status.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

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Trump's Immigration Agenda Struck Down

0:45 to 1:48

Discussion on the Supreme Court's decision to uphold birthright citizenship.

“It was a law President Trump signed on the first day of his second term, a flagship part of his immigration agenda, one which defines what it is to be American.”

Congressman's Support for the Ruling

1:48 to 2:49

Congressman Adriano Espia reacts positively to the Supreme Court's ruling.

“No president has the power to decide who an American is.”

A Guatemalan Woman's Story

2:49 to 6:24

A woman's testimony about fleeing violence and the impact of birthright citizenship.

“How have you felt since President Trump announced that he wanted to end birthright citizenship?”

Trump's Reaction and Legal Misunderstanding

6:24 to 7:37

Analysis of Trump's reaction to the ruling and legal implications.

“On True Social, he pledged to end birthright citizenship still by using legislation.”

Historical Context of Supreme Court Tensions

7:37 to 10:10

Exploration of the historical tensions between the White House and the Supreme Court.

“He's still trying to end birthright citizenship.”

Venezuela Earthquake Coverage

10:10 to 13:16

Report on the devastating earthquake in Venezuela and its aftermath.

“We expect that there could be tension between the branches.”

Cultural Tribute and Headlines

13:16 to 14:00

Tribute to a singer and updates on current news headlines.

“and how to stop the outbreak of disease.”

Headlines Overview

14:00 to 14:21

Current headlines including Trump's Supreme Court battle and Cuba's situation.

“and getting on stage with this amazing band, that's the only way that we could do something that could truly honour her and her legacy.”

Serena Williams' Comeback

14:21 to 15:30

Discussion of Serena Williams' return to tennis at Wimbledon.

“key plank of his anti-immigration drive.”

Rick Macy on Serena's Game

15:30 to 17:26

Rick Macy analyzes Serena Williams' performance and competitive spirit.

“Well, let's have a listen to what she told the BBC ahead of today's match.”
Show all 20 chapters

Serena as a Role Model

17:26 to 21:21

Rick Macy shares memories of Serena and her impact as a role model.

“And to do it on center court at Wimbledon, you couldn't script it any better.”

Live Match Commentary

21:21 to 21:58

Real-time commentary on Serena's match performance.

“OK, Rick, very quickly in 15 seconds, can you give us a bit of commentary as she's playing right now?”

Monaco Explosion Incident

21:58 to 23:21

Report on a parcel bomb explosion in Monaco injuring a businessman.

“Police in the south of France are searching for a suspect who planted a parcel bomb in Monaco, severely injuring a wealthy Ukrainian businessman.”

Cape Verde's World Cup Aspirations

24:13 to 27:35

Exclusive interview with Cape Verde's president about their World Cup goals.

“Cape Verde have become one of the most talked about teams in the World Cup.”

South Africa's Immigration Tensions

27:35 to 28:00

Coverage of protests and tensions surrounding undocumented migrants in South Africa.

“You're listening to NewsHour from the BBC.”

Tensions Surrounding Immigration in South Africa

28:00 to 29:50

Learn about the ongoing immigration crisis in South Africa and the fears of violence among migrants.

“An anti-immigration campaign is set Tuesday as a deadline for all undocumented migrants to leave.”

Interview with Minister Mamalo Kokubayi

29:50 to 36:30

A discussion with Minister Kokubayi on the government's response to anti-immigrant sentiments and the safety of foreign nationals.

“As the state said, this is not a deadline set by the government, but also a day that is normal.”

Supreme Court Ruling on Birthright Citizenship

36:30 to 40:30

An examination of the recent Supreme Court decision regarding birthright citizenship and its implications for immigration in the U.S.

“Let's return to our top story and that decision by America's Supreme Court to strike down President Trump's plans to end birthright citizenship there.”

Reflections on Loss and Creativity

40:30 to 42:04

A discussion on the personal losses experienced by Gorillaz co-creators and how it influenced their creative process in their latest album.

“This is Rajini Vaidyanathan with NewsHour, coming to you live from London.”

Journey of Loss and Legacy in India

42:04 to 46:31

Explore the emotional journey of artists as they navigate loss and honor legacies through music in India.

“I've been to Nepal, but I felt like I kind of knew India and I've always been interested in the philosophy and yoga and the music.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. When you hear the phrase made in China, what do you think? I'm Tristan Redman. And I'm Asma Khalid. And together we host the Global Story podcast from the BBC. And today on our show, we look at the origins and evolution of made in China, because it actually wasn't inevitable. What we're talking about is the world's largest communist nation is at the beating heart of the capitalist system. For more, listen to The Global Story on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:41Hello and welcome to NewsHour from the BBC World Service. Coming to you live from London, I'm Rajini Vaidynarthen. It was a law President Trump signed on the first day of his second term, a flagship part of his immigration agenda, one which defines what it is to be American. But today, following legal challenges which went all the way to the US Supreme Court, the President's plans to end birthright citizenship was struck down. Since 1868, babies born in America have been granted automatic citizenship as enshrined in the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution, even if their parents are in the US temporarily or unlawfully.

1:21Today, the Supreme Court said that should continue. President Trump said the decision was too bad. We'll hear from someone who agrees with him later in the programme. But first, Congressman Adriano Espia, the first formerly undocumented immigrant to serve in Congress, welcomed that news. Trump tried to erase one of our nation's clearest constitutional guarantees and he failed. We won and he failed. We're right and he's wrong. No president has the power. No president has the power to decide who an American is. And what about those who would have been impacted by that ruling if it had changed? Well, I've been speaking to one woman from Guatemala.

2:09She fell violence there and travelled to America in March 2024 seeking asylum. Last summer, she gave birth to a baby girl. Now, she didn't want us to use her voice on air. so you can hear her answers translated by a member of Democracy Defenders. That's a US-based organisation which represents her. I began by getting her reaction to today's ruling. I feel sincerely a great deal of joy. It was a process that took a lot of effort, patience and above all hope. But I give thanks to God for this blessing for my family and all other migrants in the United States. How have you felt since President Trump announced that he wanted to end birthright citizenship?

2:56Because of course, that would have impacted the status of your young daughter. I felt great sadness and concern because it would be very painful. I left my country to escape from the daily violence and corruption that we lived every day. I was chased by a man who killed my co-worker. And so I knew that if we returned, not only my life would be at risk, but my daughter's life would also be at risk from persecution. There are some people, particularly those, of course, who support President Trump, who believe that birthright citizenship encourages so-called birth tourism, that people will just go to America because they can get American citizenship for their children.

3:49And that's certainly the argument as to why the president said he wanted to end it. What would you say to people who make that argument? I would ask that they not think that way, but rather give us a chance to show that we don't want to be a burden on the government. We are hardworking people working to put bread on the table for our families. I would ask that they look at us with eyes of compassion. You've left Guatemala. You said you left a very difficult situation back there and you've applied for asylum in the United States. I wonder if you could just share a little bit more about why you felt you had to leave and the dangers that you left behind.

4:37I fled Guatemala with fear for my life because I was being pursued by a serial killer who would become obsessed with women, stalk and kill them. And he became obsessed and was stalking me and my co-worker. One morning, my coworker and myself were separated at work, and he found her and killed her. She was heavily pregnant at the time. And the police has done nothing to apprehend him. He is still on the loose. There has been no justice. There is no support or protection for women who go through this in my country. the government does not care enough to protect us and so I fled to this country and I am still very heartbroken about the death of my co-worker.

5:44And what hopes do you have for your daughter I mean particularly given the decision that we had just a few hours ago from the Supreme Court in the US. I have hope that my daughter's life will be safer in this country. She will also have more opportunities than I had. She will have a better, more stable life here and she will be free to walk on the street without fear. The words of a Guatemalan woman whose baby girl was born in the US last year, speaking to me through an interpreter. Well, as we mentioned earlier, there's been a strong reaction from President Trump to the court not going his way.

6:26On True Social, he pledged to end birthright citizenship still by using legislation. He wrote, Congress should today start working on ending expensive and unfair to our country birthright citizenship. But can he do that? Well, Jessica Levinson's a constitutional law professor at Loyola Law School in California. I think President Trump's post is a misunderstanding, frankly, of what the majority concluded today. A thin majority of the court looked not just at a federal law, but also at the Constitution, and specifically the 14th Amendment that was put into our Constitution after the Civil War, and concluded that the Constitution requires if you're born on U.S.

7:09soil, you are a U.S. citizen. And that's not something that can be undone by a congressional statute. There are only really two routes to change that understanding. One is another Supreme Court case that would overturn the decision the court just made today, or a constitutional amendment. But you cannot by statute change what the Constitution means. So broadly speaking, this was a loss for the president. He's still trying to end birthright citizenship. It's not been a great week for him at the Supreme Court, has it? He's not always got what he's wanted there. I think this has been a mixed week for the president when it comes to the end of the Supreme Court term.

7:53Certainly, he had a big win in one case dealing with his power and the power of any president to fire the heads of executive agencies. And this is a case that It will have, I think, very big implications, again, for President Trump and any other president who seeks to really put their mark on the heads of these executive agencies. But then the president has, of course, suffered some losses, the birthright citizenship case. There was another case dealing with the Federal Reserve. And then there was another huge decision that came out of the Supreme Court. But that was months ago, the tariff decision the president lost as well.

8:33Were you surprised that given that the Supreme Court does have a conservative majority, it has made some rulings against the president? Three of the nine members have been appointed by President Trump. I was not surprised that they have dealt him some defeats because fundamentally what judges do is and should be different from what politicians do. And I think what we're seeing is that there is a difference between conservative legal thought and conservative politics. And this president has embraced a very broad view of executive power. The Supreme Court has often viewed that consistently and allowed him to do that, but not always.

9:17The Supreme Court has also put brakes on President Trump as well. I mean, the White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller has described the ruling today on birthright citizenship as one of the most destructive and outrageous decisions in the long history of the Supreme Court. Is this the first time that we've heard a White House criticise a decision or is this something we've seen in history before? Certainly, we have seen tension between the White House and the Supreme Court for decades. And we can go all the way back to the early 1900s and an enormous amount of tension between what the president was trying to do, particularly President Roosevelt during the New Deal and what the Supreme Court was preventing him from doing.

9:59I will say I think the language that we see today is different from language we've previously seen from other presidential administrations. But I mean, this is why we have a system of checks and balances. We expect that there could be tension between the branches. Jessica Levinson, a constitutional law professor at Loyola Law School in California. Now, just under 2000 people have now been confirmed dead after last week's twin earthquakes in Venezuela, according to the government. but many more remain missing, trapped under the rubble. The country's president, Delcey Rodriguez, has described it as the most brutal natural catastrophe in her nation's history.

10:38Anger against the government's growing as Venezuelans say rescue operations have been slow and inadequate. The BBC's Yogyatala Mai reports from La Guayera, a coastal town which has been the hardest hit.

10:52you can hear lots of sounds around me there are two or three earth movers that are working simultaneously one that is trying to dig through the rubble another one that is trying to lift a concrete slab i'm standing very close to the debris of a collapsed building we've just spoken to Miguel Oscar, whose 34-year-old son, Miguel Angel, lived inside the building. I am here because my son is under the rubble. Like my son, there are hundreds of others trapped here. We need more support from authorities, because what's being done just isn't enough. It's possible that the earthquake hasn't killed my son, but negligence will of not getting help in time.

11:44We've come to one of the hospitals in Laguaira and what we've been seeing at hospitals here as well as in Caracas are families who are searching for their loved ones who are missing. So they're going to see the list of those admitted. They're going to the morgue to see the list of those who've died. And we've met a mother here, a young mother, Belisabeth Herrera. She's looking for information about her two daughters, Grey Belis and Grey Belis Phillips, 12 and 13 years old. She believes they were at home when the earthquake occurred, but she can't be sure. And what she's told us is there was absolutely no rescue operation at her building.

12:26They are all I have. I just want to find them at any cost. There were no machines or rescue sent. It's like you've been left on your own to search for your loved ones.

12:41We can just see this giant mess of debris in front of us. Two tall apartment buildings stood here. Residents who live here say they were 16 stories high and they basically just collapsed into a pile of rubble. When we speak to people here, they're telling us they're angry at their government because they feel like they've been left to their own devices to deal with the aftermath of this massive disaster. There are rescue teams arriving from different parts of the world, but it's just not enough. The next big challenge for this country is going to be how to dispose of all the dead and how to stop the outbreak of disease.

13:19We have got some good news from Venezuela. We are hearing that a three-year-old has been rescued six days after those earthquakes. Some glimmers of hope as those rescue efforts do still continue.

13:37you. Coming up on NewsHour, the granddaughter of legendary Indian playback singer Ashwa Bosley explains why she took to the stage in London in her memory. This song was basically supposed to be performed in September of last year. And unfortunately, you know, her health wasn't too well that time. So we had to rush back. So this is my way of completing her unfinished business. and getting on stage with this amazing band, that's the only way that we could do something that could truly honour her and her legacy. Let's bring you up to date with our headlines this hour and President Trump says he'll try and use Congress to get around the Supreme Court, striking down his order banning birthright citizenship, key plank of his anti-immigration drive.

14:23And Cuba says months of talks with the US have yielded no progress as the communist-run island struggles under that American blockade.

14:38This is Rajini Vaidyanathan with NewsHour, coming to you live from the BBC in London.

14:51The sound of cheers there recorded on my phone back in September 2022 as Serena Williams, one of the tennis greats, lost at the US Open in New York, playing what we thought then was the last ever match of her career. I remember the emotion and the tears as the 23-time Grand Slam champion said goodbye at the Arthur Ashe Stadium, receiving a standing ovation as she twirled off the court. Well, Serena, who of course has an equally accomplished sister in Venus, is back now, four years on, returning to the singles drawer at Wimbledon after she received a wild card. Well, let's have a listen to what she told the BBC ahead of today's match.

15:34I felt a lot of things where I haven't felt the butterflies yet. I don't feel the pressure to do anything except for have fun and enjoy myself and enjoy the moment. I'm never a free person in general. You see me play. I don't play. I play like a maniac. So we'll see. I mean, as of now, I'm calm, but I might change in a matter of minutes. Who knows? Anything is possible, I guess. But also, sometimes it's good to just enjoy yourself. So that's what I'm planning to do. Well, she certainly is enjoying herself because right now it's one set all as Serena is still playing that match. Well, let's cross live to Florida now and speak to somebody who knows Serena's game very well.

16:21Rick Macy coached a young Serena from the age of 9 to 14. Welcome to NewsHour again, Rick. First of all, I'm sure you're watching as well. I can't take this. It's too close so far. Yeah, no, I'm watching it. It's kind of what I thought, you know. This is all about her movement. You know, when you can move, especially a vintage Serena, you're going to be able to play more offense and defense. And that's why it's a battle right now. But I think for not playing for four years, she's doing a pretty good job. She is, isn't she? She lost the first set and now she's come back in the second and we're into the third.

16:58Why do you think she decided to pick her racket back again? Because when I saw her in 2022, it seemed like that really was her finale. Well, not really. You know, she's so competitive. She really didn't want to retire. But, you know, family and so on and so forth. But now her kids are a little older and she wanted to have the kids, you know, show what mommy does for a living, you know. And I think it's great. And to do it on center court at Wimbledon, you couldn't script it any better. And the whole world's curious. And I think she's doing great. But that's why she came back and she's going to play the entire year.

17:38You can mail it in. I can mail it in. Well, we'll see when we, Rick. And Rick, as someone who coached her at a young age, watching her now, what do you see from back then that she's held on to in terms of her technique and the way she plays? Well, first off, I told Richard early on she's going to have the best serve of all time. Bang! And she has the best serve of all time. She had a great throwing motion. Even watching now, she's popping serves 122 miles an hour and she's 44 years old. So you never lose that. That has nothing to do with movement. It's all technique and biomechanics. So she's always had a great service motion, great ball striker, very clean.

18:21But this is what I see now. She's not able to dictate as much as before, and she's playing a lot more defense, but it's the competitiveness. You know, when I went out to Compton in 1991, there was a rage in both her and Venus, and it's something I've never seen to this day. and Serena was big, strong, fast, quick, mobile and agile. But she was like a little pit bull. Once she got a hold of you, she never let go and she's the ultimate competitor and I'm glad she's doing it again on centre court Wimbledon. Rick, I'm looking at a poll on the BBC Sport website which says how far will Serena Williams go in women's singles and the majority of the votes say that she'll only get to the first round.

19:08What's your prediction? um well i think she has a good shot to win this match um but you never know the next round she plays a much different ball striker uh but i i think it's it's irrelevant you know i think anybody that doesn't play for four years that's one thing but to do it and you're 44 years old you know it's it's all about the movement so she can win this match but then if she does the next one's going going to be rough sledding. Okay. And just tell me about your personal memories of her as a young girl. Listen, she was a prankster. She was always happy-go-lucky. Both her and Venus were two peas in a pod.

19:52Even to this same day, they're still skipping and holding hands. I tell her about Serena as a kid. She was the nicest, meanest kid I've ever taught. I mean, she was just different. but I love that because she was just a great competitor but every night after practice both her and Venus would give me a hug and a fist pump but sometimes Serena's fist pump was a little more authoritative because she always had that look and she kind of had that streak but listen that's what makes someone becomes great and she's the greatest player ever to hold the racket. And I remember seeing her at the Arthur Ashe Stadium as I say when she said her farewell and the response from the crowd was unlike anything I'd ever seen before.

20:38How much of a role model do you think she is? Not just, of course, in tennis, but just overall. No, she transformed the sport, but more importantly, just the generational talent through all walks of life. You know, look where she came from. She wasn't in the front row or the back row. She wasn't even in the building. She was from Compton. Forget the African-American community. She is the American dream and her competitiveness and drive. I mean, you can if anybody can pick up on that, any young child, that alone is going to take you through the game of life. But no, she's she's the ultimate role model and everybody should take a page out of her playbook.

21:21OK, Rick, very quickly in 15 seconds, can you give us a bit of commentary as she's playing right now? yeah she's down one uh one love and it's uh 40 30 it's her serve like i said she has the best serve of all time smooth it's like a knife through butter i always told her with that left hand it's like placing an egg on the shelf if you watch her toss it's in the same place every time let's uh let's take a look and see what happens if she hits the corner especially on grass it should be a good sir. Okay, well, Rick, we will see what happens. Thank you very much for that commentary. That match continues on.

22:01Let's move on now. Police in the south of France are searching for a suspect who planted a parcel bomb in Monaco, severely injuring a wealthy Ukrainian businessman. Hugh Schofield reports from Paris. At around nine o 'clock yesterday evening, a man was seen depositing a parcel at the entrance to an apartment building in Monaco. A short time later, three people, A man, a woman and a teenage boy were about to enter the building when there was an explosion. This eyewitness said he and his mother heard a loud noise. They didn't realise at first it was right next door. There was screaming and shouting, and when he went down to the street, he saw the victims on the ground.

22:40The presumed target is Vadim Yermolayev, a Ukrainian millionaire who made his fortune in the eastern city of Dnipro. He also had a big wines and spirits business in Crimea, which he maintained after the Russian occupation in 2014. In recent years, he was the object of sanctions from the government in Kiev. He'd taken Cypriot nationality and lived in Monaco and elsewhere on the French Riviera. There's no clue as to the motive of the attack, nor as to the identity of the attacker, who escaped on foot across the border into France. That's the BBC's Hugh Schofield watching that story from Paris. I should just say that we do have more on that story as well on the BBC News website.

23:20and if you want to stay across what's happening at Wimbledon, of course, there's plenty of updates. The BBC Sports team are running a live page there. I'm Rajini Vaidyanathan and this is NewsHour.

23:39When you hear the phrase made in China, what do you think? I'm Tristan Redman. And I'm Asma Khalid. And together we host the Global Story podcast from the BBC. And today on our show, we look at the origins and evolution of made in China because it actually wasn't inevitable. What we're talking about is the world's largest communist nation is at the beating heart of the capitalist system. For more, listen to The Global Story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

24:12Welcome back to NewsHour. Cape Verde have become one of the most talked about teams in the World Cup. Now, in an exclusive interview with the BBC, the country's president, Jose Maria Neves, has predicted that his country will defeat the current world champions, Argentina, in the knockout phase. Well, he said the team, the Blue Sharks, have built a reputation for shocking their opponents whenever they felt underestimated. President Neves also commented on media reports, alleging an ongoing police investigation into an allegation of sexual assault by one of the team members, the captain himself, Ryan Mendes.

24:48Well, BBC's Paul Nje and Michael Mvondo met him in the capital prior. Mr President, the Blue Sharks will play the current world champions, Argentina, in the knockout round. How do you think that game will go? I hope that Cape Verde will keep performing well. We went to this World Cup to write our own destiny, which is facing champions. So we are going to face Argentina and Messi with the same determination, same will, and with the desire to win and reach the next phase. Realistically, Mr President, do you think the Cape Verdeans stand a chance against Argentina, or do you think they might win this World Cup?

25:28The Cape Verdean team has 100 % faith, 100 % hope, and this would completely sweat out of its jersey. So we have 100 % chance to win against Argentina. 10 % of the possibilities. So I guess I should ask then, Mr President, what's your prediction for that game? Give me a score. I think Cape Verde can beat Argentina 1-0. Prior to the World Cup, many people underestimated Cape Verde and they even talked to them as the underdogs. But what explains their sudden rise to football glory in such a short time? I think when expectations are low regarding a team and if that team has the urge to win, it is possible.

Read the full transcript

26:09So this is what happened to Cape Verde. Everyone was shocked while we were strongly preparing to perform well. People thought we didn't stand a chance at all. So we went there and we surprised them. A small nation like Cape Verde should make an effort to always do that, to permanently surprise people in order to overcome the obstacles. Mr President, I don't know if you're aware of this, but I would like to find out from you. The team captain, Ryan Mendes, is currently under investigation in New Zealand over sexual assault allegations. I don't know if you've heard about that and what you plan to do.

26:49In this precise moment, I want to send a hug and my solidarity to Ryan Mendes and the whole team. I ask them to stay focused on the things they have to do for the next matches and shield the team from this sort of issue. Other issues like this could arise in the coming days as the national team succeeds. Do you believe that that may destabilise the team at the moment? As the team performs well, these kinds of issues could arise. I think this issue would not have gained such attention as it's currently doing if the team had not reached the knockout phase. This is happening exactly when we got to the round of 32, even stronger.

27:25That's the Cape Verde president Neves speaking to my colleague Paul Njaye.

27:42You're listening to NewsHour from the BBC. I'm Rajini Vaidyanathan. Thousands of people have marched in South Africa's main cities demanding all undocumented migrants leave the country. Some people held sticks and other traditional weapons. Amid tensions, extra security has been deployed across the country.

28:10An anti-immigration campaign is set Tuesday as a deadline for all undocumented migrants to leave. It's against this backdrop and amid fears of violence that tens of thousands of foreigners have already left the country. Police in South Africa say 25 ,000 people have been repatriated so far. Most are from other African nations. We've been hearing from a woman from Malawi who came to South Africa illegally as a teenager. She's now married to a South African citizen and is a legal resident. But she told us she still doesn't feel safe. People are just in doors and I don't know if we feel protected enough, like if there won't be violence.

28:55Like you enter a taxi and then they immediately change what they were saying. They will talk, means you need to go, you need to go, you must go, you should go. They don't really care. They won't even ask you if you have a paper or not. But as long as you're just someone who doesn't speak the same language as them or you're just someone from another country, you need to go. Whether you have papers or you don't have papers, they're not even asking any questions. Well, for years, immigrants in South Africa have spoken about a climate of fear and intimidation from vigilante groups. Memories have also been seared by the events of almost 20 years ago, when more than 60 people died during a wave of rioting against non-South Africans.

29:39Well, Mamulo Kokubayi is Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development in South Africa. My NewsHour colleague Tim Frank spoke to her earlier, asking her how the government's responding to these demonstrations. As the state said, this is not a deadline set by the government, but also a day that is normal. We've gone out to assure our citizens, but also our foreign nationals who are within the country, that the state will do within its powers to ensure that everyone who is within the borders of the republic is protected. We have made sure that law enforcement agencies across the country are actually deployed.

30:17There's not been major incidences across the country as the time we are speaking. Marches have started in three provinces as we speak, and those others are just picketing. We do not have anything, but our buses have been moving people who feel unsafe, and we've been transporting them so that we can process them, working together with the embassies so that we can make sure that they're travelling back home, those who would want to leave the borders of the Republic. So there's a big security presence today. You say that you want to ensure that everyone is protected. The argument that a lot of people are using inside South Africa, but also outside, I mean, from the Nigerian government to the Secretary General of the United Nations is that on many other days over recent years, migrants in South Africa have not felt protected.

31:14There's been a culture of intimidation, of xenophobia, of violence, of abuse. What do you say to that, that this government has not done enough to protect those who are in South Africa with whatever status, but nonetheless are being intimidated by these gangs? It's not correct to say that. You'd remember the last incident of this nature where we could say that there was an incident is 2008. Since then, we've never heard. Migration challenge is for all of us globally, and we've got to try and ensure that we manage it correctly. When citizens feel that they are unemployed, naturally, I mean, we would have seen marches, whether it's Europe, whether it's in the Americas.

32:02We are not different as South Africa. But what we have been doing is consistently ensuring that where there is a breaking of law, we have records of those that we have arrested who are ringleaders, who are leading, as long as evidence shows that they've literally led to an attack of an individual or even a death of an individual or any intimidation. So where there's evidence we have acted, it's not correct to say that we have done this only for today. Today is because they had called it for a shutdown. And that's why we had to deploy. And it's within the policies and the laws of the republic. Understood.

32:42I mean, just to be clear here, you mentioned 2008. I mean, that was when dozens of migrants were killed. I mean, to say that there have been no incidents since then stretches belief, doesn't it? I mean, lots of countries do have protests and debates about levels of immigration. That's definitely the case. What you don't see in many other countries are gangs going door to door, demanding people's papers and threatening to detain them and arrest them. 2008 is not dozens of people. I don't know which figures are using when you say dozens. It's not correct. We had to work together, for example, at that time.

33:25More than 60 people were killed in a wave of anti-immigrant violence that spread. That's not correct. No? That's a figure. I'm not so sure where you get it. It's not from South Africa. Let's rather use accurate figures that the state has released. When one life is lost, there's one too many. That I acknowledge. But at least let's stick to accurate figures because the numbers, when they are exaggerated, and that's what becomes a problem. I've checked and it has been... I wasn't wrong. It has been very, very widely reported, including by independent institutions in South Africa, as well as across the world, that that violence in 2008 left more than 60 people dead.

34:05Many of them were foreign nationals and it was fueled by xenophobia. No, it was not 60 people that were dead. That I can assure you. We had less than 30 people that were killed. OK. That's not 60. That's not correct. Let me come to the issue of what state does. The state continues to work in communities in all the work that we do. Hence, we're talking about law enforcement agencies. We talk about ensuring that we protect citizens, but also migrants. And you'd understand South Africa is one of the few countries where we do not have refugee camps, where we do not have asylum camps. We have integrated them within our communities.

34:45But to say that foreign nationals in our country do not feel safe, I don't think so. With the greatest respect, Minister, I've just spoken to... In Baitre, we just had 8 ,000 people arriving. We've seen 8 ,000 foreign nationals arriving in South Africa. And there's also been lots of people leaving South Africa as well. And with the greatest respect, Minister, I mean, I have just spoken to a Malawian woman who didn't want to give her name because she's terrified. She didn't even want to tell me what job she holds because she's terrified about somebody triangulating the information and tracking her down.

35:21She has the right to reside in South Africa. She's married to a South African. But she says it's terrifying at the moment. She's terrified for herself, terrified for her children. She endures a huge amount of abuse with people just telling her to leave the country. I realise you could say, well, that's just one person I've spoken to. But you hear this time and time and time again. This culture of fear is quite widespread in South Africa. It seems that from what you're saying that you simply don't recognise that. No, not recognise is not factual, it's not widespread. spread. What we have seen is a lot of information, misinformation that is done to damage the integrity of the country.

36:06And I'm not disputing the fact that there will be those incidences. And I can acknowledge here, we had a group of people that went to a Congolese house. We have arrested them, as I speak, where there's been incident of intimidation, where there's been incident of committing of illegal activities. We have arrested, whether it's South African nationals or non-South African. That's South African Minister Mamalo Kukubayi speaking to NewsHour's Tim Franks.

36:39Let's return to our top story and that decision by America's Supreme Court to strike down President Trump's plans to end birthright citizenship there. All the President's expressed is disappointment, but plans to push the law through Congress, he says. Well, America is one of around 30 nations, mostly in the Americas region, which grants automatic citizenship to anyone who's born there. It's a policy which has split people in the country, according to the latest polling, and it's divided politicians as well. Well, President Trump's deputy chief of staff, Stephen Miller, said American citizenship is not the birthright of the world.

37:17Meanwhile, Democrat politician Hakeem Jeffries said the court's decision finally affirmed that all persons born in the United States are American citizens. Two very different viewpoints there. Well, Carly Stimson is a senior legal fellow with the Conservative Heritage Foundation think tank in Washington, D.C. I'm not surprised that the court ruled the way they did. The vehicle President Trump tried to use, which was an executive order to not have the force of law. and the court held that the Constitution itself under the 14th Amendment guaranteed birthright citizenship. Do you agree with President Trump's position that it shouldn't exist anymore?

37:55Well, I think it's irrelevant now. I mean, the Heritage Foundation, where I work, took lead on the scholarship and many other distinguished conservative scholars took the position that the language of the 14th Amendment, subject to the jurisdiction thereof, was intended to free the children of emancipated blacks after the Civil War. And it wasn't meant to grant universal birthright citizenship to any alien who came to our shores. But we've lost that argument and now the only way to change it is to amend the Constitution. The president says he can push it through Congress somehow. Do you agree with that assertion?

38:25No, because if the court had ruled on statutory grounds and ruled that the statute which codified the subject to the jurisdiction thereof language, that would be one thing. But the court ruled on the constitutional issue and on the 14th Amendment. So the only way to change an opinion of the Supreme Court based on the Constitution is to amend the Constitution. This is an issue, isn't it, Carly, which really divides people in America? It does. And it doesn't really neatly divide by Republican or Democrat, although, you know, typically it does go that way. And as you pointed out at the lead, many countries, especially European countries, don't grant universal birthright citizenship.

38:59They have congressional, conditional citizenship. And so this will continue to divide the country, probably less so now that the court has spoken. And do you think that's the end of it now then, because President Trump certainly thinks it's not. I don't because there's an old saying in Washington, there's no permanent victories and no permanent defeats, just permanent battles. So this will be one of the continuing permanent battles in Washington. A permanent battle. But at the heart of this, doesn't this essentially President Trump's desire to end it, risk creating another class of people in America if you were to take away that automatic right?

39:31Well, it's not going to happen. So it's only a hypothetical question. And remember, when the Justice Department argued this case in front of the Supreme Court, they made clear that if this court ruled in their favor, they would only apply it prospectively, not retroactively to people already in the country. But it's an academic argument because the court has ruled. Indeed. And in terms of the broader immigration agenda that the president is pushing, how does this fit into that? Of course, Heritage has worked on some of those policies and some of those ideas. Well, I think that Trump should be applauded for securing the border, which was one of the mandates that people gave him when they put him back into office.

40:07And then he's having a tough time removing the many people that he promised he would try to remove because of resistance in this country. But President Obama removed many more people than President Trump did at this point in his tenure. But I think President Trump will not quit and he'll keep pushing to remove people lawfully who were here illegally. That's Cully Stimpson there, a senior legal fellow with the Conservative Heritage Foundation think tank in Washington, D.C.

40:42This is Rajini Vaidyanathan with NewsHour, coming to you live from London. Now, it's been more than two months since the legendary Indian playback singer Usher Bosley died, who, over several decades, recorded more songs than any other artist in history. but one of her last ever collaborations was with the virtual band Gorilla, Gorillas in which she sings about death. Well, Gorilla's co-creators Damon Albarn and Jamie Hewlett's latest album, The Mountain, draws heavily on their personal losses and on their journeys around India, as I've been finding out. It's more inspired by our, I think, our relationship really.

41:22There's some very interesting things that drew us closer together because of what happened in India and what India is. I got a phone call from my wife, who was in India with her mother, who had a stroke, and went into a coma. I fast-tracked a visa. I went to Jaipur for, I think we were there for 12 weeks, trying to get her mother home in a coma, which we did eventually, and then she didn't make it, unfortunately. You know, it should have been that I never wanted to go back to India ever again after having that experience, but in fact, it was the opposite. I thought I had to go back and I wanted to go with Damon to see what we might discover together.

42:03Had you been before, Damon, to India? I've been to Nepal, but I felt like I kind of knew India and I've always been interested in the philosophy and yoga and the music. I was played to from birth, you know, and I played to my father as he was dying. yeah, Raka's very important to me We'd already been once to India and travelled around and we came back with plans to do a second trip and started working on ideas and then Jamin's father passed away and my father ten days later and we're born ten days apart so it was a kind of bit of a strange thing but by that point for the second trip we understood exactly what we were saying You talk about both of you losing your fathers in a short space of time.

42:56And, Damon, I know you took your father, Keith Ashes, to Varanasi. And what was that like for you, being in Varanasi? Well, it's one of the most... I mean, it's yourself before you visit somewhere like that. When we arrived there, we were completely blown away. The first few hours, we were just being on the banks of the Ganges. What would you explain Varanasi is to people that don't know what it is? It's a smell, it's a light, it's a sense of joy, It's a sense of release, of rebirth. Deeply spiritual, yes. The album features collaborations with some of India's best-known artists, including the legendary playback singer Asha Bosley.

43:36The song she sings on, Shadowy Light, turned out to be one of her last recording projects before she died at the age of 92 in April. On a shadowy light, she sings about death, which is quite sort of eerie now, thinking that she is no more. Well, I mean, maybe she was very aware of that, you know. It's just lovely that the family are here. I mean, I think they feel a real connection to the song. I think it may have been the last thing she did. Her granddaughter's here and is going to come on stage with us. I mean, see how she feels, but maybe she'll say a few words at the end of that song. Zanai Bosley, Usher's 24-year-old granddaughter, appeared on stage in an emotional tribute.

44:20the crowd of thousands, many who've never heard Usher Bosley's music before, holding their phones in the air to light up the stadium. So Zanai Bosley, she always wanted to perform her track with the band. And so tell us about why you've come here to this concert, because it's a quite personal journey for your family, isn't it? You see, like, this song was basically supposed to be performed in September of last year. She was supposed to be here and we got all the way here. We were actually in London two days before the show. And unfortunately, you know, her health wasn't too well that time. So we had to rush back.

44:57But you see, in her entire 90 years, there was nothing that she ever left unfinished. It was always that she's never left a show incomplete or left her audience hanging or her admirers hanging. And so for her, this was really troubling that this was something that she couldn't do. For me, it's very emotional because I can't let that be incomplete for her. I can't let her legacy be incomplete. So this is my way of completing her unfinished business and getting on stage with this amazing band. That's the only way that we could do something that could truly honour her and her legacy. Backstage, we also meet classical Indian flute player Ajay Prasanna, who features heavily on the album, including the title track, The Mountain.

45:49I felt that they captured all of India in that melody. I enjoyed playing it so much, and when I play the piece now, I feel that the melody was written just for India. What is that idea then that you're articulating in The Mountain? Well, it's loss and the journey, but it's the people you meet, So it's multiculturalism. It's the ambition. It's the multi-generational aspect of it. It defines who we are. Yeah, but we... I mean, our families, our families, we're all, it's very much a family affair, the whole thing. That's Damon R. Barn, Jamie Hewlett of Gorillaz, and I also spoke to Zano Bosley and Ajay Prasanna.

46:31That ends this edition of NewsHour. From the team and myself, thanks to all of you for listening.

46:51When you hear the phrase made in China, what do you think? I'm Tristan Redman. And I'm Asma Khalid. And together we host the Global Story Podcast from the BBC. And today on our show, we look at the origins and evolution of made in China, because it actually wasn't inevitable. What we're talking about is the world's largest communist nation is at the beating heart of the capitalist system. For more, listen to The Global Story on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

From the publisher

The US Supreme Court has struck down President Trump's executive order that sought to end automatic citizenship for people born on American soil. Donald Trump described the ruling as "too bad", but claimed Congress could tackle the issue through legislation.

Also in the programme: one of the greatest players of all time, Serena Williams, returns to the tennis court four year after hanging up her racket; and the granddaughter of legendary Indian singer Asha Bhosle explains why she took to the stage in London in her memory.

(Photo: Supreme Court rules on birthright citizenship, transgender rights, Washington, USA - 30 Jun 2026. Credit: EPA)

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