Trump threatens more strikes on Iran

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. When you hear the phrase made in China, what do you think? I'm Tristan Redman. And I'm Asma Khalid. And together we host the Global Story podcast from the BBC. And today on our show, we look at the origins and evolution of made in China, because it actually wasn't inevitable. What we're talking about is the world's largest communist nation is at the beating heart of the capitalist system. For more, listen to The Global Story on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:41Hello and welcome to News Hour from the BBC World Service. Coming to you live from London, I'm James Kamarasamy. Three weeks after they signed what was called a Memorandum of Understanding, the misunderstanding between the United States and Iran seems to be heading in a dangerous direction as a cycle of attacks and counterattacks around the Strait of Hormuz gathers pace. Speaking after meeting President Zelensky of Ukraine at the NATO summit in Ankara, President Trump had this to say about Iranian targets which have already been struck and about possible ones to come. We knocked out 28 boats last night, little ones.

1:18That's all they have is little ones. Are you going to try to take out more tonight? Will we go tonight? You know, normally I wouldn't tell you. I wouldn't tell you. But you know what? there's not a thing they can do about it. So the answer's probably. While earlier, an exasperated-sounding US leader had offered this assessment of the current ceasefire. To me, I think it's over. I don't want to deal with them anymore. They're scum. You know what scum is? They're scum. They're sick people. They're led by sick people. And they're vicious, violent people. And if they had a nuclear weapon, they'd use it.

1:54As far as I'm concerned, it's over. I'll speak to our negotiators. They want to negotiate. They're good people. Steve Whitcoff, Jared Kushner. But they have to come back to me. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a waste of time dealing with them. They're liars. We make a deal. And if I make a deal with him, we have a deal. And he goes out, he talks. We make a deal. Everyone's agreed. No nuclear weapon. We make a deal. They go outside, talk to the press. They say we never even talked about it. There's something wrong with them. They're cuckoo. Well, he calls them cuckoo, as well as a number of other things.

2:28Now, but at the G7 summit in June, the US leader spoke in rather more positive terms about the current Iranian leadership. You talk about regime change. I never cared about regime change. It's never a part, but I guess you have regime change because you know better than anybody. The first group, they're all dead. The second group, they're dead. A part of the third group is gone. and were dealing with people that I think are very rational people. I mean, they were nice to deal with. They were strong people, smart people. I think actually they're smarter than the first and second group. But they're not radicalised and they're, you know, looking to help their country.

3:10President Trump back in June. So what of this NATO summit? What are the main takeaways? Juana Lungesko is a distinguished fellow at the Royal United Services Institute, the world's oldest defence and security think tank, and she's a former NATO spokesperson. And we began with what Donald Trump had to say on Iran. I think that President Trump, as usual, sounds very tough and makes some very dramatic threats towards Iran. But he's also left himself some wiggle room because he said any military operations against Iran would end quickly. They would not lead to full blown war. He also hinted, as we've heard him in that clip, saying that negotiations may continue.

3:58I'll let our negotiators keep talking if they want. but at the same time he did make some very dramatic threats again saying that there may even be further strikes tonight and that there could be a reinstatement of the US naval blockade on Iranian ships or even attempts to take control of the of Hark Island which is the vital oil hub. And of course Iran is another issue that has driven a bit of a wedge between Mr Trump and some of his European allies. He's once again been very open about the fact he doesn't believe that they backed America with enough vigour when the war began. What's your sense of those divisions and whether they have been overcome?

4:48Well, they seem to be, at least they seem to have been tapered over for now. And the final declaration of the NATO summit here in Ankara, which was agreed by all 32 leaders of the NATO alliance, reiterates that Iran must never have a nuclear weapon and allies call on Iran to fully respect freedom of navigation in the Strait of Hormuz. But Mr. Trump, of course, repeated some of his very strong and virulent criticism of leaders, such as Pedro Sánchez of Spain, who has positioned himself as the strongest critic of the Iran war in Europe, while not making a clear ask of Europeans in terms of, for instance, the demining ships, some of them have prepositioned in the region, for instance, France, Germany, Belgium and others.

5:48interesting to hear him when he was talking to president zelensky of ukraine in in far more complimentary terms when he was talking about this decision to allow the ukrainians to to build patriot missiles he's saying that these are smart guys yes absolutely uh and he called the defense ministers out of central casting uh well no praise is higher is it exactly which is something that President Trump reserves for his most favorite soldiers in particular. And he said that Ukrainians are doing an amazing job. There's a lot of brave people. So the tone was markedly different from what we heard last year in the Oval Office in that infamous meeting with President Zelensky.

6:39Because, of course, President Trump likes winners. And President Zelensky has been reinforcing this narrative of Ukraine winning while Putin is losing through this long range attacks on oil refineries within Russia, which are making a real difference. And so President Trump said, well, this is an escalation, but it's an escalation that could help end the war. If indeed the U.S. grants Ukraine a license to produce these Patriot interceptors, which President Zelensky did mention are the best in the world, that could be a real game changer. But the reality is that we don't know the time frame. On average right now in the United States, it takes two years to make one such interceptor.

7:33And the US only produces something like just over 600 one year. So they're not that easy to produce and it would take a long time. But I think the change of tone in itself could be significant. That was Juana Lungescu. She was a NATO spokesperson from 2010 to 2023. Now, distinguished fellow at the Royal United Services Institute, she was speaking to me from Ankara. Just to let you know, Axios News outlet is reporting that the US military is currently conducting strikes on Iran. We'll bring you more on that when we get it. But before that news broke, for more on the Iranian perspective, I spoke to Siavush Ranjbadaimi, senior lecturer in modern Middle Eastern history at the University of St Andrews in Scotland.

8:23I asked him whether it was a surprise that the ceasefire had broken down. No, not really. I wouldn't call it a surprise because since the memorandum of understanding was signed, neither side really became close to the other. There wasn't a breakthrough in the deep acrimony between the sides. We saw stark anti-Americanism on display during this multi-day funeral for the former supreme leader in Iran and in Iraq today. And of course, we saw the very vitriolic statements by President Trump today. So the memorandum of understanding was really something that both sides, to some extent, grudgingly signed because of the work of the mediators, Pakistan, Qatar and more.

9:10It wasn't something which was the product of a breakthrough in, of course, their conflict. Can it be salvaged, do you think? Well, as usual, I think the mechanism here is that the mediators will step in again, will perform an 11th hour operation to pull the sides back from the brink. But it is starting to become cyclical unless we have a political breakthrough, which has to occur through some form of a high-level, I think, political summit, we will go back to tensions simmering down but then rising up again as we saw flaring up again as we saw last night. So we have to wait and see on that front.

9:56And when you say high-level political meeting, who are we talking about? Well, a repeat of the summit we had in Islamabad or in Geneva. I think the two leading negotiators on the political side at the moment are Vice President J.D. Vance and the parliamentary speaker in Iran, Golibov. But that trail has gone a bit cold if you think about what happened after the two sides met in Geneva. And it was a very cagey meeting. Even when they meet, they don't meet in front of cameras. There are very indirect accounts of whether they talk directly. clean. This sort of frost has to, in some way, go away for the negotiations to become serious.

10:38I remember it was a 60-day period. I think we're approaching more or less the 20-day period with absolutely no form of breakthrough in terms of the substantial issues which are on the table, particularly the Strait of Hormuz. And we heard the rhetoric from Donald Trump today. What kind of impact does the use of those kind of words like scum have on the Iranian leadership? Is it something that they just now expect or does it have an impact? Well, clearly there's no love lost for Trump in Iran. We saw that in these various funeral proceedings for Khamenei where the whole idea of revenge and seeking blood retribution for Khamenei were on display.

11:18And that's what President Trump alluded to today as well in Ankara. So any additional insult won't really change, I think, the perspective that is there within, I think, the entire gamut of the Islamic Republic's need, both those who are still in favour of some form of negotiations and those who are adamantly opposed towards Trump. Yes, I mean, the personal seems to be pretty important here, doesn't it? Donald Trump clearly believes that the Iranians have tried to kill him, and he has certainly killed the previous leadership. Yes, of course. I mean, this is a fundamental issue that hasn't really been solved.

11:55And it puts many other figures in very awkward positions. So, for example, the Iraqi prime minister showed up in Najaf yesterday when Khamenei's casket was brought there to be taken to the holiest shrines of Shia Islam. He walked alongside the Iranian president, but that's the same Iraqi prime minister that's going off to meet Trump at the White House. So it creates a very difficult balancing act for all these other regional actors who are trying to step in and prevent tensions from rising up again. However, again, this level of animosity is visceral to a great extent, and trying to move beyond that to engage in structured negotiation has been elusive so far.

12:42And briefly then, what of the Iranians and their control of the Strait of Hormuz? Well, they're still trying to cling on to the idea that they should really administer the Strait of Hormuz, or at least do it in tandem with Oman. Oman is against it. It is not really heeding to the Iranian approach so far. And this is part of the reason why we had these clashes last night. but Iranians will insist on it because they think that it is now their main ace in negotiations with the sort of nuclear issue not being prominent anymore. Siavush Ranjbha-Demi, Senior Lecturer in Modern Middle Eastern History at the University of St Andrews.

13:24Just to bring you up to date, US forces, it's being reported, are launching new strikes on Iran to curb the threat to the Strait of Hormuz. You're listening to NewsHour from the BBC World Service. And coming up later on in the programme, as the manuscripts and archives of one of France's most famous writers, Albert Camus, are acquired by the National Library of France, what made him such a great writer? His style is unmatched, I think, in the French literary tradition in the 20th century. It's crisp, it's direct, it can be ironic and lyrical, but also satirical. He was someone who looked at very serious questions of what makes men happy about our mortality and political questions, including questions having to do with political violence and what makes it legitimate or unacceptable.

14:14Headlines at this hour, President Trump has threatened to hit Iran hard again in the coming hours after declaring the ceasefire over because of Iranian attacks in the Strait of Hormuz. And NATO's Secretary General says the alliance is stronger than ever, despite transatlantic tensions with Europeans taking greater responsibility for their own defence. We'll have an interview with him later in the programme.

14:38You're listening to the BBC World Service. This is NewsHour, coming to you live from London with James Kamara-Sami. Insomnia, a lack of sleep, it can be intensely irritating, but it can also provide musical inspiration. I'm having trouble trying to sleep. I'm counting shit but running out. I lay awake at four, staring at the wall, counting all the cracks backwards. So when it's black, this insomniac, take an original tack, keep the beast in my nature under ceaseless attack. I get no sleep. I can't get no sleep. Well, we heard from Green Day Brain Stew, an illustration of loneliness, sleepless in New York by Courtney Barnett and insomnia by Faithless.

15:31Well, it will come as news to precisely no one that getting eight hours sleep a night is good for you. But what about the consequences of sleeping less than the recommended amount of time? Well, new studies published in the Annals of Internal Medicine found that shortened sleep times can lead to widening waistlines. And we've been hearing more from the lead author of the study, Faris Zurekat, Assistant Professor of Nutritional Medicine at Columbia University. This was a quite intensive series of studies where we actually recruited individuals with healthy habitual sleep duration of seven to nine hours per night.

16:05And we actually, in a randomized order, in two phases, exposed them to six weeks of experimental curtailment of sleep, where we asked them to delay their bedtime by about an hour and a half per night, again over six weeks continuously. And then in the other phase, after a brief break, we had them maintain their adequate habitual sleep duration, and we measured body weight and composition and a variety of other markers at the beginning and throughout each different study phase to compare how that mildly insufficient sleep sustained over six weeks would impact body weight composition and other cardiometabolic risk factors.

16:45And you found, what, in six weeks, there was a notable, noticeable weight gain? Yes. So what we found, and again, this is quite interesting because we're comparing the same people to themselves, right? So this is a within-subject study design. And we see that individuals gain about a half a kilo of body weight over the course of six weeks of mild sleep curtailment relative to when they're maintaining their adequate habitual sleep duration. And that might not seem like a lot, you know, but when taken in context, we're talking about a relatively brief period here of six weeks. And if we sort of, you know, carried that out over the course of a full year, for instance, which, you know, we would expect to see with this sort of chronic, mildly insufficient sleep that's experienced at the population level, this could, you know, this could certainly sort of align with what we see in terms of population trends of weight gain over a year.

17:39And is it because they are being deprived of something or some things while they are not sleeping or not getting enough sleep? Or is it because they are just so tired that they are exercising less the following day? What do you put it down to? It's a little bit of both, I think. So we did measure physical activity and inactivity. And we see that they are indeed more inactive. So they're engaging in more sedentary behavior when they're sleep restricted. and this is even when we account for the fact that they're in bed for a shorter period of time, we don't see any changes in moderate to vigorous physical activity, which would point to largely the effects on body weight being driven by increasing food and energy intake.

18:22So they're consuming more calories. That was Faris Zurichat, Assistant Professor of Nutritional Medicine at Columbia University.

18:34How do you follow a box office smash that swept the board at the Oscars only two years ago? Well, the acclaimed director Sir Christopher Nolan has gone back to ancient Greek myth, mustering some of the biggest names in acting for his retelling of The Odyssey, shot on real ships in real seas in six countries across the world. Matt Damon is Homer's hero Odysseus, Tom Holland is his son, in a story that is nearly 3 ,000 years old, but according to Christopher Nolan is crowd-pleasing popcorn stuff. Our culture editor Katie Razzle met him and some of the film's stars. Everyone wants to work with Christopher Nolan.

19:10We want more. Matt Damon plays Greek hero Odysseus. Help me go home. He said, I'd like to offer you the lead role. And so I just said, yeah. And he was, don't you want to hear what it is? Ithaca's king is coming back. No, he's not. Anne Hathaway is Odysseus' wife Penelope. When I got the call, it was how quickly can you get on a plane to Los Angeles because I live in New York with my family. And I said, I think I've missed all the flights today, but how about tomorrow? Unlike Hathaway and Damon, Tom Holland as their son. My dad is coming home. And his wife Zendaya, who plays the goddess Athena, are first timers in a Nolan movie.

19:48You yearn for that opportunity and then you get the opportunity and that comes with a lot of pressure. Even Christopher Nolan was a little intimidated after the success of Oppenheimer. You're talking about turning theory into a practical weapon system faster than the Nazis. You have ways of coping with it. My son walked into my office while I was writing on the Odyssey and said, where are your Oscars? And I said, well, I'm trying to write a new project, and if I've got Oscars sitting there on the shelf, think about how daunting that would be. And he looked at me and said, but you didn't win for writing.

20:18Just from the jump, I thought this isn't the Penelope that I've come to expect. This is a volcano of a woman. Promise me you will come back. What if I can't? Anne Hathaway's character has waited 20 years for her husband to return from war while watching her son grow up without him. It was really interesting to kind of translate what my idea of being a loving mother is to 3 ,000 years ago. I know this is going to sound silly, but go to a pre-therapy world. You know, there's no such thing as gentle parenting in ancient Greece. The stakes were really, really high. She's already been separated from one great love in her life, and so I think that makes her cling more tightly to the other great love of her life, her child.

21:01There are big themes to be read into this film. What makes a man? The trauma of war, and the ancient Greek tradition of hospitality to strangers. It's essentially the golden rule. It says, treat others as you would be treated. And when that principle of respecting others is ignored or abused, things fall apart. Have we lost that hospitality that the Greeks talk about? There's a danger that we're not valuing it as we should. But if you think about it, it's so fundamental that if we'd really lost that, it would be chaos and anarchy everywhere around the world. I mean, it is what holds our society together.

21:41And when you're making a film like this, do you think about how it will be received by modern audiences and whether it is picking up something about our culture? No, I don't. But I also trust that if done right, that process will lead to something that does reflect the world we live in. What would he do if he came back here and find all these suitors in his house? Tom Holland's got two big films this summer, a new Spider-Man movie and The Odyssey, with its themes around masculinity that feel very timely. Maybe what you can learn from this movie about masculinity is that it comes in all shapes and sizes.

22:13and there's no version of it that's perfect and that people are flawed. You seem very relaxed about the whole idea of what it is to be a man. I've just lived in my life the way my parents raised me, which was to be respectful to anyone and everyone and to be humble, to enjoy your successes, to work hard and, you know, don't take anything for granted. What was new for you on this set? What did you learn on the Odyssey? I mean, I did a lot of sword fighting, which I loved. Useful in future life? I mean, if someone broke into my house, you're keeping a sword at home now. I have a cricket bat, actually, and I can wield that in a sword-like fashion.

22:52I think it's asleep. Katie Razzle reporting there. Just to bring you up to date on events in the Middle East, the US military action are telegraphed earlier by President Trump. There's now been a statement from US Central Command. It said at the direction of the Commander-in-Chief, US Central Command forces have started conducting additional strikes against Iran to further degrade their ability to threaten freedom of navigation in the Strait of Hormuz. The United States is holding Iran accountable for recent unjustified aggression against commercial shipping and civilian crews freely navigating a vital international waterway.

23:29You're listening to the BBC World Service and this is NewsHour.

23:38The United States is about to mark its 250th anniversary. And so on the Global Story podcast from the BBC, we're telling surprising tales of American influence on the world stage and in ordinary people's lives all across the globe. We have this ability to export our story and a lot of people have bought it. I feel like the American dream is alive but not well. From the BBC, it's the United States at 2.50. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

24:14Welcome back to NewsHour. The manuscripts and archives of one of France's most famous writers, Albert Camus, have been bought by the National Library of France. His books and plays, as well as his private letters, essays and diaries, have been secured for just over$10 million. Albert Camus was awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1957 at the age of just 44. My News Out colleague Rebecca Kesby has been speaking to Yves Morisi, a professor of French literature at Oxford University and a Camus specialist. So why is this seen as a big deal in France? It's a big deal because it will enable the general public to have access to his archive, which is vast and, as you just noted, diverse.

24:56So it's his works of fiction, his correspondence, his annotated political speeches, speeches about his art, as well as documentation that he gathered throughout his life. And the fact that it will now be owned by the French state and made available to the public is a fantastic achievement. It's the most expensive acquisition, nine million euros, that the French National Library has ever consented to. So it's fabulous news. He's obviously very well known in France. But for our listeners elsewhere, can you remind us of why he was such a big deal and a bit more about his life? Because he was actually born in Algeria.

25:33Yes, he was. And this was a critical part of his being and writing and thinking. So he was very much in love with his homeland of Algeria, which at the time was French. It was in the colonial context that he was born in 1913. and he lived through part of the Algerian War of Independence from 1954, which ended in 1962, but he died two years prior to that. So both for political reasons, he was very critical of French colonial rule, and also for reasons of emotional attachment to his land. Algeria is extremely important to him. Why does he matter still to us today? I guess he's a peculiar figure in that he is able, I think, to combine great talent as a writer.

26:17His style is unmatched, I think, in the French literary tradition in the 20th century. It's crisp, it's direct, it can be ironic and lyrical, but also satirical. It's quite powerful and often quite accessible. And at the same time, he was someone who looked at very serious questions of what makes men happy about our mortality and political questions, including questions having to do with political violence and what makes it legitimate or unacceptable. So all this together makes him a major figure. He had a really interesting life, didn't he? And lived through a really important part of history as well in France.