Ukraine steps up its attacks on Russia

4 Aug 2026 · 47 min · 17 chapters

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In short

The episode is a BBC NewsHour roundup focused on Ukraine’s expanding drone attacks on Russia, plus separate reports on Gaza remote work, protests in Pakistan-administered Kashmir, Europe’s air-conditioning boom, EU migration tensions at Ceuta, seahorse photography rules in the UK, and an endometriosis musical.

Ukraine segment

Kiev struck Russian Wildberries warehouses (at least five killed, ten wounded), and drones also hit a beach in southern Russia (seven killed, including three children; 58 injured). Steve Rosenberg says the attacks disrupt a major Russian retail platform used for military supplies. Retired Major General Vladimir Havrilov argues Ukraine’s deep/middle-strike capability developed over years and that Wildberries sells items (including drones and spare parts) for “special military operation” units; he says civilian casualties are regretted and claims Ukraine follows international law.

Guests

Retired Major General Vladimir Havrilov (former Deputy Defence Minister of Ukraine).

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

Ukrainian Drone Strikes

0:21 to 0:42

Discussion of Ukrainian drone attacks on Russian targets.

“Overnight into Tuesday, Kiev struck Russian warehouses belonging to Wildberries, the country's largest online retailer, known as the Russian Amazon.”

Civilian Impact of War

0:42 to 1:05

Exploring the impact of the war on ordinary Russians.

“In recent weeks, the war has been getting ever closer to ordinary Russians.”

Latest Attacks and Casualties

1:05 to 2:36

Details on recent drone attacks and their consequences in Russia.

“Russian officials say that overnight, drones attacked an industrial park south of Moscow.”

Public Perception in Russia

2:36 to 4:25

How the war is changing public perception and feelings of powerlessness.

“so many people said to me, well, you know, the war is something happening so far away.”

Change in Ukrainian Tactics

4:31 to 5:56

Discussion on Ukraine's change in military tactics and strategy.

“To discuss the Ukrainian strategy, we're joined now by a former Deputy Defence Minister of Ukraine, retired Major General Vladimir Havrilov.”

Targeting Wildberries

5:56 to 7:10

Discussion on Ukraine's targeting of Wildberries and civilian consequences.

“We know that it is the Amazon of Russia.”

Collateral Damage Considerations

7:10 to 8:21

Discussion on civilian casualties and adherence to international laws.

“We never, in Ukraine we are just following all international laws related to the war.”

Situation in Gaza

8:21 to 12:54

Overview of the dire situation in Gaza and efforts by tech workers.

“That's retired Major General Vladimir Havrilov.”

Continuing Struggles in Gaza

12:54 to 14:00

Update on the ongoing issues faced by people in Gaza.

“You can hear more on that story in Crossing Continents on assignment on the BBC World Service as well.”

Violence in Pakistan-administered Kashmir

14:10 to 18:40

An overview of the violent protests in Pakistan-administered Kashmir and the impact on civilians.

“in violent clashes between security officials and protesters from the group Joint Awami Action Committee, or the JAAC.”
Show all 17 chapters

Sophie Woods' Endurance Challenge

18:40 to 23:06

Ultra runner Sophie Woods discusses her record-setting completion of the Via Alpina trail.

“That's the BBC's Caroline Davies reporting from Islamabad there.”

Europe's Air Conditioning Boom

23:06 to 26:51

Exploration of the surge in air conditioner sales in Europe due to recent heat waves.

“Experts say the evidence indicates it was American forces that hit the school, but the US government has not admitted responsibility.”

EU Tensions Over Migration Policies

28:00 to 31:10

Learn about the recent tensions within the EU regarding migration and border control.

“Italy temporarily suspended its Schengen arrangement with Spain, even though Ceuta is not part of the Schengen open borders area within the EU.”

Interview with Emmanuel Loper Fido

31:10 to 35:50

Insights from Italian MP Emmanuel Loper Fido on Italy's stance towards Spain and EU cooperation.

“Well, I'm joined now by Emmanuel Loper Fido, an MP with Italian Prime Minister Giorgio Maloney's Brothers of Italy party and the Secretary of the Foreign Affairs Committee in the Italian Chamber of Deputies.”

Seahorse Photography Controversy

35:50 to 39:40

Understanding the impact of photography on seahorse populations and new regulations.

“for sharing your thoughts on that story.”

Endometriosis Awareness through Musical

39:40 to 42:00

Explore how a musical aims to raise awareness about endometriosis and its challenges.

“I'm Rajini Vaidyanathan and this is NewsHour.”

Exploring Endometriosis Through Musical Comedy

42:00 to 46:51

Learn how a musical comedy tackles the serious subject of endometriosis.

“which is in the title, we've at least done part of our mission.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:06Hello and welcome to NewsHour from the BBC World Service. Coming to you live from London, I'm Rajini Vaidyanavan.

0:20The sound of Ukrainian drones as they hit targets in Russia. Overnight into Tuesday, Kiev struck Russian warehouses belonging to Wildberries, the country's largest online retailer, known as the Russian Amazon. At least five people were killed and ten wounded in what's the latest in a series of attacks on wild berries. Well, Kiev says the depots supply the Russian military, something Moscow denies. In recent weeks, the war has been getting ever closer to ordinary Russians. Just a day earlier, as people sunbathed and swam in the sea, a Ukrainian drone crashed into a beach in southern Russia, killing seven people, including three children, and injuring 58, according to Russian officials.

1:04Well, our correspondent, Steve Rosenberg, our Russia editor, brought me the very latest from a busy Moscow street. This is what we know so far. Russian officials say that overnight, drones attacked an industrial park south of Moscow. a warehouse caught fire, and the local governor, the governor of Moscow region, said that five people had been killed. Now, there was no official confirmation about who runs the warehouse that was targeted, but later came news reports of two other drone attacks in two other parts of Russia, one near St Petersburg and the other in the Tvye region, both targeting warehouses belonging to Wild Brits, Russia's largest online retailer.

1:51And this fits into a pattern, because since last month, Ukrainian drones have attacked a whole string of warehouses belonging to Wildberries. It seems to be an attempt to disrupt the operations of a really big Russian company that is used by so many people here. You know, tens of millions of Russians buy things online via Wildberries, and hundreds of thousands of Russians try to sell things through Wild Brit. So there's a sense now that ordinary Russians are really feeling the impact of the conflict, would you say, in a greater way? Much more than before, certainly. I mean, a couple of years ago, if I was speaking to people on the street about the impact of the war on their lives, so many people said to me, well, you know, the war is something happening so far away.

2:41It doesn't affect us. It's happening on television. Today, the message is very different. You know, long-range Ukrainian drone strikes on Russian oil facilities, for example, they sparked a summer fuel shortage in many parts of Russia. So Russians felt it. These attacks on Wildberries warehouses, that is disrupting that major company. Russians are feeling that. And also, you know, four and a half years into this war, so many people now tell me when you speak to them, You know, we know someone, we know a neighbour or one of our relatives who was killed fighting in Ukraine. So in many different ways, yes, people are feeling the effects of this war.

3:21And is that changing public perception and opinion in any way? Well, that's a really good question. One thing I've noticed is that Russians are very good at adapting to a changing situation. And I think we're seeing that now. The other thing that comes through when you speak to Russians is this sense of, well, we're powerless. You know, we don't like the situation, but there's nothing that we can do to change it. And I get the feeling that many people are just waiting, hoping for the situation to change. But, you know, there is no sense when you speak to people that they have the power to influence what is happening or to influence their government.

3:58And certainly, although it's clear that many people would like this so-called special military operation to be over, Many people talk about let's sit down and negotiate. Vladimir Putin gives the impression of someone who is determined to push on. There's no sign of compromise at the moment from the Kremlin leader. He seems determined to carry on the war until he achieves what he considers to be victory for Russia. That's the BBC's Russia editor Steve Rosenberg in Moscow for us. To discuss the Ukrainian strategy, we're joined now by a former Deputy Defence Minister of Ukraine, retired Major General Vladimir Havrilov.

4:39Welcome to NewsHour, Major General. Are we seeing a deliberate change of tactics and strategy by Ukraine? Hello. First of all, I would like just to stress that Russia has been destroying Ukrainian infrastructure and logistics from the very beginning of the invasion in 2022. Ukraine was not able to respond to this due to lack of deep strike and middle strike capabilities. It took for us three years to acquire some local domestic solutions and also some partner solutions to have that capability. And from 2026, we started to manufacture numbers, deep strike and middle strike capability, which gave us an instrument to reach Russian targets deep in the territories and to start causing some painful damages to the oil infrastructure, defense industry, and also this retail type companies who are related to the supplying of military items to Russian.

5:49And I just want to say, I mean, Russia says that Wild Breeze is not related to any military supplies at all. We know that it is the Amazon of Russia. Some would wonder why you are targeting Wild Breeze in particular. What would your response be to that? First of all, Wild Breeze is the number one in size marketplace in Russia. We know that. And until recent, they had a separate chapter on the list of the items they sell, which was named everything for special military operation. And you can buy from this marketplace a lot of stuff, starting from small drones to spare parts for Russian military.

6:35And we advised Wildberries many times to be careful with that, to pay attention to that. They didn't respond to it. That's why they become a legitimate target, because they supply through the marketplace a lot of stuff to the special military operation units which are taking the part in the war in Ukraine. So you say that's a legitimate target, but we are seeing civilian casualties. We've seen civilian casualties on the latest strike on a wild berries associated with that. And of course, the strike which hit a beach. We never, in Ukraine we are just following all international laws related to the war.

7:21We understand it. We never target specifically civilian population. Of course, time to time as a collateral damages it could be for civilians who are close to the military installations, also close to the areas. So on a beach, on a beach when there's sunbathing? beach is located in the area of the eastern part of Black Sea. There are a lot of naval bases, Russian Navy. And so I understand that one of the Ukrainian drones, which was targeted to the Russian some kind of infrastructure there, was shot down by Russian air defense. And we can hear it very clearly from the coverage. And it crashed to the beach.

8:05So you regret the number of civilian casualties on that occasion? Of course, of course, we regret any casualties of civilians who are becoming hostages of this war which Putin started almost four and a half years ago. OK, thank you very much for sharing your thoughts. That's retired Major General Vladimir Havrilov.

8:37It's been 10 months since the US brokered a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, and the peace plan has yet to deliver much of its promise. Last week, President Trump announced a deal between his Board of Peace and Hamas on disarmament, but Israeli forces have continued their deadly strikes on Gaza. Life remains bleak for most people in the territory, who still live in tent camps or in the rubble of half-destroyed homes. But in the most trying circumstances, some are hoping to connect to the outside world and make a living using their laptops. Israel imposes tight restrictions on foreign journalists entering Gaza, so our Middle East correspondent Yolan Nell has been speaking online to local tech workers.

9:21I lost all my equipment, I lost my house, I lost my office, and I was thinking that is the end of the world here in Gaza. Mahran Bayed, his wife and three young children, now live in a tent in Gaza City. Despite his ruined surroundings, he's one of thousands of well-educated Gazans trying to make a living online, coding and programming. I can work here in Gaza. Anything that is in the freelancing work, starting from mobile application for iPhone, Android, Flutter, to websites, even ads. So anything that can be worked remotely, we can do it here in Gaza. With Gaza's economy all but destroyed and 80 % of people with no income, NGOs see the potential of remote work to fill a desperate need.

10:08Yeah, it's really critical. I mean, we talk about it now as sort of a digital lifeline, right? This idea that if you have a laptop, if you have a working internet connection, you can work and earn income. Nicole Hark is country director for the American NGO Mercy Corps, which is trying to help Gazans, focusing on training, getting contacts for freelancers and supporting the new independent co-working spaces that are popping up in Gaza City and elsewhere. It's really critical to help people get back to work. They don't want to be dependent on aid. They're not looking to sit there and do nothing, right?

10:41But it's really finding a safe space and finding something that's affordable and that continues to have consistent electricity and internet is shockingly incredibly difficult. These hubs have generators and solar panels to provide power and a better internet connection, while most of the population is still living in tents. So let's start with AI engineering. I got these two questions from an engineer and actually I stuck. Wala Valides is a 24-year-old computer software engineer and her family's main breadwinner. Today, she's talking to one of her mentors based in California's Silicon Valley. I have like lots of international mentors who not just help me in the technical skills, also in the soft skills, also in the mental health.

11:28My mental health, it's not in zero, it's in minus. So, yeah, if you want to complete despite all of these struggles and circumstances, or do you want to just, like, wait for a miracle to happen, or wait for something to happen, and absolutely it will not happen if you don't do anything. Walat has recently got a full-time job with a Dubai-based company.

11:57With almost daily bombings, as Israel says it's continuing to target Hamas, safety is still a big concern. And there are plenty of other challenges for tech-savvy Gazans to overcome, as well as the unstable electricity and internet. Banking restrictions make it difficult to be paid. I have a clap here.

12:21Mahran is finding it hard to get his laptop screen repaired at this makeshift workshop. There are tight Israeli restrictions on what comes into Gaza, including computer parts, because Israel sees them as having a possible military use. This test is very hard for us, but we are trying to survive. We are trying to say thanks God for what we can do and we start our life again. Gaza's wider recovery may be at a standstill, and yet its tech workers give a glimpse of a brighter possible future. That's Yolande Nell in Jerusalem. You can hear more on that story in Crossing Continents on assignment on the BBC World Service as well.

13:03You're listening to the BBC World Service and this is NewsHour. Coming up, we hear from one of the writers who's turned the chronic and painful medical condition endometriosis into a musical comedy with a serious message. Patients themselves don't know about the symptoms to look for to ask their doctor about. This is a chronic, systemic, full-body disease that affects every part of your life. And we thought if we can just get some more people aware of it, that we would be doing our mission. We'll have that coming up in about half an hour. A reminder of some of the other headlines we are watching this hour.

13:38Oil companies have reported record profits as the Iran war continues and a mass funeral has taken place in Gaza for more than 100 people whose bodies have been recovered from rubble nearly three years after they were killed in an Israeli attack. There's plenty more headlines as well on the BBC News website.

14:03This is Rajini Vaidyanavan with NewsHour coming to you live from the BBC in London. In recent months, dozens of people have been killed across Pakistan-administered Kashmir in violent clashes between security officials and protesters from the group Joint Awami Action Committee, or the JAAC. Well, the BBC is the first media organisation to gain access to the city at the heart of the protests, Rawalakot. With the internet cart and roads blocked, getting information has been difficult. Our Pakistan correspondent Caroline Davies reports from Islamabad about what the team on the ground has found.

14:44Despair in the makeshift clinic. Shafkat Hussain came in with low vital signs, a gunshot wound to the chest. but his friends clasped his hand at his bedside, the sheets stained with the blood of the previous patients, and hoped until he passed. We only asked for affordable flour, electricity and our basic rights. Instead, our brothers are being killed. Why are live bullets being fired at us?

15:15Like many in Ravlakot, Shafkat had been protesting for weeks. They started in June, led by the Joint Awami Action Committee, or JAAC, a group of local activists that have grown in influence since they formed in 2023. The authorities say the JAAC want to disrupt the ongoing regional elections, that they are armed and that the authorities won't tolerate the march. There was a crackdown, leaving dozens dead, and violent clashes spread across Pakistan-administered Kashmir. Some security officers have died, but most casualties are protesters. Getting inside Ruralikot is difficult. Roads are blocked or guarded.

16:00The internet and phone signal cut. It's meant it's nearly impossible to know what is happening. When the team arrive, they find family after family mourning loved ones they say were shot dead in the protests. This woman lost her only son. He said martyrdom is a great honour. He fought for what was right. He never lived as a slave. And this man, his brother. He was the youngest in the family and was loved by everyone. It is a great loss for us. At the same time, I feel proud that he gave his life while standing up for the rights of the people. He was not fighting or attacking anyone. Protesters don't trust the local hospitals, scared they'll be arrested, instead going to makeshift clinics.

16:48The doctor running it says they struggle to keep up.

16:54We have enough supplies to provide first aid. We can stop bleeding, clean and dress wounds and remove superficial bullets. But patients with serious injuries to the chest, abdomen, head or other vital organs need advanced hospitals. Even major hospitals would struggle if many such patients arrived at the same time. He says they've treated around 50 to 60 critically injured patients in the last week and that he personally treated 15 to 20 with gunshot wounds. Most, he says, were under 40 years old. The authorities have said security forces did not fire on peaceful protesters, but that law enforcement acted against individuals who were involved in attacks on law enforcement personnel, threatened public safety or obstructed lawful authority.

17:42They say it's not true that protesters have been arrested in hospital. The authorities accuse the JAAC of being foreign-funded terrorists and the group has been banned. The JAAC maintain they are peaceful. But we asked one of their core committee, Umar Nazir, about the deaths of security officers. Look, perhaps such deaths did occur. I will not comment on that. However, I believe that certain elements who are under their control were infiltrated into our ranks. They did not provide us with evidence on this alleged infiltration and the authorities say the JAAC are running a disinformation campaign against them.

18:28The BBC did not see weapons or shooting at the protests they observed. The JAAC say they're open to talk, but there are more protests planned.

18:40That's the BBC's Caroline Davies reporting from Islamabad there. It's one of the world's toughest endurance challenges. The Via Alpina is a trail across the Alps spanning 2 ,000 kilometres over eight different countries with 116 stages. Ultra runner Sophie Woods has become the fastest person to ever run it, completing it in just 29 days. Well, the course has an elevation equivalent to climbing Mount Everest 12 times, going through Slovenia, Austria, Germany, Liechtenstein, Switzerland and France before ending on the Mediterranean coast in Monaco. Well, 42-year-old Sophie began the marathon on the 4th of July in Italy and she finished on Saturday night.

19:25She's been telling me about the challenge. Every day was tough, just really tough. You know, I think when we first planned it, I actually expected to move faster than I did. The terrain was a lot more technical than I was expecting. And we faced quite a few sort of crises along the way. I mean, you talk about some of the challenges there. Of course, Europe is going through a heat wave at the moment. What sort of extreme weather conditions did you personally encounter on your run? So we had two heat waves, which was awesome. I think it probably got up to about 37 degrees, which is a lot when you're at altitude running.

20:03And then we also had some storms to contend with. And then there were just all sorts of things, like the van had, you know, a flat tire at one point. We had to deal with huge swarms of bugs. And it was, yeah, it was a challenging time, not to mention the fact that there were wildfires happening at the same time that we had to actually divert away from because the route went right through them. And how do you prepare for something like this? I've been running ultramarathons for the last decade. I've run in some of the most incredible races around the world and I think that that really prepares you.

20:42It's spending long days out by yourself, learning how to be strong and capable in the mountains and have skills to effectively save yourself in these sorts of conditions. It's something that you build over years of experience. But leading into this, I was very aware that my body was going to take a pretty big hit. And so I was focusing a lot on my strength work, on making sure that I was eating really well and making sure that I started with as many stores as I could. You've spoken in the past, haven't you, Sophie, about some of the fertility challenges you've faced as well. and how some of that in some ways inspired you to take on this challenge.

21:24I wonder if you could share more about that as well. Yeah, I mean, going through trying to get pregnant and IVF whilst also being an ultra runner is a really contradictory sort of thing. You're so used to getting your body to do what you ask it to do and then all of a sudden it just won't cooperate. And coming to terms with the fact that we weren't going to have a child has been really, really difficult for me. And so this kind of, I guess I fell out of love with my body and out of love with my sport. And this has really reignited that passion again, because my body's amazing. She's just done the most incredible thing for me.

22:02And I've had the most amazing adventure, which is why I got into the sport in the first place, was to have adventures in incredible environments. And how do you mentally prepare for this? You've spoken about the physical preparation. The mental side of it is really important. And I think that I have really practiced this through my years of racing of just, I just keep moving. No matter what happens, I just keep moving. Like the urge to stop, there is always going to be that little voice in your head being that, just have a wee seat. Why not? There's one there. You know, nothing grows in the comfort zone.

22:38So you just got to keep moving forward. And I think if you practice that enough, it just becomes conditioning. and also the fact that I had so many people out there supporting me and cheering me on. That is invaluable to know that no matter what time of day I was out on the trail, if it was the middle of the night, there were people somewhere in the world checking on my little dot, making sure that I was still moving. Sophie Woods inspiring us all there.

23:05It's been five months since the deadliest civilian strike of the US-Israel war in Iran. 120 children killed at a school. Experts say the evidence indicates it was American forces that hit the school, but the US government has not admitted responsibility. I'm Asma Khaled and I host the Global Story podcast on the BBC. The BBC has now visited the site of the school and spoken to Iranians about what they saw. For more, listen to the Global Story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

23:37Welcome back to NewsHour. Europe spent this summer trying to buy its way out of the heat. Air conditioner exports from China into the European Union hit nearly$3.8 billion in the first half of this year. That's up more than 40 % on last year. Many shops across the continent have sold out and prices are climbing. Business Daily's Sam Fenwick has been following the money chain behind Europe's aircon boom. This is a queue outside a discount supermarket in Paris one morning in July. The queue goes around the building. They're not there for freshly baked bread. They're there for a box with a fan in it.

24:19Within minutes, the shelves are empty. There are scoffles in the aisles and fights break out and this footage goes viral. Only about a fifth of European homes have air conditioning at all. In Northern Europe, it's more like one in ten. But France alone has had four heat waves since May. Nicolas Léger is a retail analyst at Nielsen IQ in France. He says 4.6 million fans and air conditioners were sold in France between January and June, double last year, three times the figure of four years ago. But then the stock ran out. This year, the average price spent by Barriers has increased by 10%. Sometimes you have no choice.

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25:04Most of Europe's air conditioning is made in China. Media is one of the biggest manufacturers. It's sold out of portable units in June. The problem isn't making them, it's getting them here. By sea from southern China takes two to three months with customs, so a unit ordered when the heatwave starts arrives after the summer's over. Tobias Strobel is Media's Head of Innovation for Europe. We transported some thousand units by train. We will not make much margin, but at least we can provide some of the porters because of this big demand. Air conditioners put on a freight train across Asia because the ships are too slow.

25:43And then you switch the thing on and everybody switches theirs on at the same time. Dr Chris Roslow is a senior analyst at the energy think tank EMBA. The most intense heat wave so far happened in late June. And in the evening period, especially the grids came under quite a lot of pressure. So we had in France, power prices spiked above 300 euros per megawatt hour. In Belgium, we actually saw a spike up to 900 euros. And just for context, power prices are typically around 50 to 100 euros. So this is several multiples above normal. The bigger cost is what comes next, because this isn't a one-off summer.

26:20Professor Diana Ulget-Volseps is vice chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. By 2030, the International Energy Agency projects cooling will add more new demand to our electricity than artificial intelligence. You can imagine it's really very massive. Europe's energy regulator says the amount being invested in the grid needs to double if energy needs are to be met. That's Sam Fenwick reporting there. Well, you can hear more on today's Business Daily. You can go to bbc.com or wherever you get your BBC podcast. You're listening to NewsHour.

27:07I'm Rajini Vaidyanathan and this is NewsHour, coming to you live from the BBC. The issue of migration remains high on the agenda across Europe. A short while ago, EU interior ministers wrapped up an emergency meeting just days after tens of thousands of Moroccans entered the Spanish territory of Ceuta. European Commissioner for Internal Affairs and Migration Magnus Brunner said after that meeting, ministers supported Spain and praised Europe's handling of migration. By every measure, Europe has not had this much control over illegal migration in a decade. But of course the events from Ceuta, that's also pretty clear, show that dramatic images beat actually the best statistics.

27:59Well the sudden surge of migrants around 70 ,000 into Ceuta, a North African exclave which is part of Spain, led to tensions between Madrid and some of its allies. Italy temporarily suspended its Schengen arrangement with Spain, even though Ceuta is not part of the Schengen open borders area within the EU. Well, that meeting has now wrapped up, as we said. So let's speak to the BBC's Nick Beak, who's been watching developments in Brussels. So, Nick, what came out of that meeting? Because, as we said just then, there have been some tensions in recent days between European member states over this.

28:36Hi, Regina. Yes, well, it does seem that all the main parties here, are downplaying any sort of row among the member states. And, you know, that is a massive departure from the past three or four days where there has been a bitter disagreement between some of those key countries. You mentioned Italy really going for Spain. And over the weekend, we had 22 countries, including Italy, writing this letter, suggesting that the policies of the Madrid government had acted as a sort of pull factor for some of the tens of thousands of mainly young men who tried to get to Ceuta last week. They were suggesting that the whole sort of integrity of the borderless Schengen zone within the European Union was a threat because of what the Spanish were doing.

29:23And today, I mean, the language is really different. You've got Denmark and Italy suggesting that they're satisfied with Spain and that really they're all in this together. And I suspect, Regina, what's happened here is that governments across Europe have seen how hard right and far right parties really sort of leapt on the extraordinary issues we saw last week. and also the suggestion that a lot of Russian disinformation was really amplifying what was being reported online and also a suggestion that in the first place this surge was caused by some sort of internet hoax that was telling people to try and make this journey because they might well get a Spanish passport, which of course was simply not true.

30:06And Spain have said, haven't they, Nick, that they've already returned to Morocco 70 ,000 of the 72 ,000 migrants who reached Sota. Yes. And I mean, Ceuta is a place where obviously right on the tip of northern Africa, it's not in the Schengen zone. It's separated by the Strait of Gibraltar. So you've got 25 kilometers or so of seeds separating that city, a Spanish city from the Spanish mainland. But yet there was, you know, such a large reaction to this. And in terms of, you know, how the governments play it from now on in, you've really got the feeling that prime ministers and presidents across Europe felt they had to say something because immigration for so many electorates is a really crucial, important issue.

30:56We know that it's one that the hard right have been picking up votes on. And so a lot of politicians felt compelled to speak. And I think now in the cold light of day, there's been a dialing down of the temperature. Nick Beak in Brussels, thank you very much. Well, I'm joined now by Emmanuel Loper Fido, an MP with Italian Prime Minister Giorgio Maloney's Brothers of Italy party and the Secretary of the Foreign Affairs Committee in the Italian Chamber of Deputies. Welcome to NewsHour, Mr Loper Fido. Do you think that things have dialed down now?

31:32Hello there. Sorry. Hello there. I'll ask you the question again. Have things dialed down now? Is Italy less angry and frustrated with Spain than it was a few days ago? No, but with Spain, we are friends, historical friends. We were not angry with them. We just were asking responsibility because when you are a member of the European Union, It is necessary responsibility and firm control on the borders, because when there is a Schengen agreement and you are in your country, you feel safe if you know that everybody is doing what they have to do. they accomplished to the security control on the border.

32:13In that case, it was really clear that Spain was not identifying who was entering the European Union because Ceuta, it is true, it is an esclave in Africa, but it is inside Spain. So it is in the European Union. So are you now satisfied with the way things are? I mean, Spain now saying it's already returned 70 ,000 people back to Morocco. Yeah, we saw that Spain reacted firmly. And now it was important, the meeting that was done by the interior ministers of the European Union, saying that if there is a responsibility from every country, there will be also solidarity. and the main thing is that we have to strengthen the European Union external borders and we have to make a return more effective, intensify the fight against migrant smuggling, reinforce the partnership with the third countries and we have also to coordinate the communication.

33:12In this way, we will be sure that we will be able to help who is seeking for asylum and it is entitled to have it and we will be able to send back without trying to enter illegally in European Union. So do you now no longer think Spain should be suspended from the Schengen? We don't know yet how many illegal people entered in Ceuta last week. So it is better to control us because we know that between the migration flows there are also some members that could be, It happens. Can I ask you this? A Spanish ambassador criticised Italy for amplifying false claims, saying that suggestions that it grants EU citizenship to people are simply wrong because the programme provides legal residency to migrants, but it does not confer Spanish nationality.

34:11So any of those people who'd come to Soeta wouldn't have necessarily got nationality anyway. Yeah, but I know that we are being criticized, but finally, the day after the critics that we gave to Spain, they reacted immediately, sending the troops there and raising 500 meters of walls. meaning that probably the critics were correct in front of a wrong attitude to face illegal migration coming from Morocco, from the South African areas. I mean, Spain says, though, that it is clear that in no way was the Schengen area compromised. That's what Spain has said today after those meetings. Yeah, we are glad to hear that.

34:58We also know that from Ceuta there are some illegal boats arriving to the Spanish coast. That means that after that they are able to go everywhere, to the north or to the Mediterranean area. But after this meeting, we are sure that we are going to cooperate better and better. So I think that it was a good step for the European Union in order to know that facing illegal migration, It is a common target and we have to coordinate our action. And if somebody is asking for solidarity, it's also to be responsible. And these are two ways of acting. It will be done a correct job to support asylum to the people that need asylum and also to tackle the illegal migration.

35:48OK, thank you very much, Emmanuel Loprefido, an MP with the Brothers of Italy Party, for sharing your thoughts on that story.

36:06Britain's two species of seahorse, the short-snouted and the spiny seahorse, are already legally protected. But now the UK's marine management organisation's warning of a new risk, photography. It says it will take action against anyone who films or photographs seahorses without a government licence, with the maximum penalty being six months in prison or an unlimited fine. Well, Alice Wilby-Wards, a postgraduate student in marine biology at Essex University and a volunteer at the Seahorse Trust. Welcome to NewsHour, Alice. First of all, is photography of seahorses a common thing here? Yeah, so thanks for having me.

36:47The photography of seahorses is quite common to see around the world because they're such a charismatic fish. As you may know, they look very different to normal fish. They have a long prehensile tail and they look a bit like a horse under the water. And so it's very common to have them photographed in the UK as well as globally. And this is people taking big cameras and using flashes or is it about the proximity? Can people also potentially put them at risk if they're taking a photo on their mobile phone? Yeah, so I think the increase in new technology has really impacted this. The use of flash photography with large cameras as well as smaller mobile cameras like GoPros, they've increased significantly and the flash photography can really, really damage the seahorse individual and stress it out quite significantly.

37:40Could it actually kill them as well? It could under severe stress. Yes, it's not the direct flash that is killing them, even though they do have very sensitive eyes. They're much like human eyes. They can absorb the whole light spectrum. But along with the additional stresses that they're experiencing from climate change, as well as boat moorings and overfishing, this can be a severe stressor that does cause fatalities in the seahorses. I mean, the penalties are quite high. We're talking six months in prison or an unlimited fine. What's the scale of the problem then? Are we talking hundreds or thousands of people who are out there taking photographs of seahorses incorrectly?

38:20Yes. So citizen science is the best form of data collection that we've got to date. Lots of people opportunistically taking photographs of seahorses. But the highest incidence rate of causing seahorse mortalities is through citizen science. and this would be volunteers that go out and don't adhere to the guidelines of the MMO taking these images that are causing severe stress to these animals. Just tell us more about these two species of seahorse. They're already legally protected. Are they endangered here in the UK? So they're not listed as endangered by the IUCN. They are listed as data deficient.

39:04This means that we don't have enough data currently on them to determine whether they are critically endangered or not. Unlike, we have 46 species of seahorses globally, and these two species are listed still as data deficient. But with the citizen science data, we're trying to build a bigger picture of their population size. OK, really fascinating to talk to you and hear more about the threats and the risks to photography of seahorses. Thanks very much for joining us here on NewsHour. That's Alice Wilby-Ward, a postgraduate student in marine biology at Essex University and also a volunteer at the Seahorse Trust.

39:40I'm Rajini Vaidyanathan and this is NewsHour.

40:06This is Rajini Vaidyanavan with NewsHour, coming to you live from the BBC in London. It's a chronic medical condition which affects around 1 in 10 women worldwide, but one that's often ignored. This week, a musical designed to raise awareness of endometriosis opens at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival in Scotland. Endometriosis is when tissue similar to the lining of the uterus grows outside it. It can bring on excruciating pain and exhaustion, and in some cases even lead to infertility. It can take many years for women to get diagnosed. It took me well over a decade to learn I had it. So how do you turn an unpleasant, often ignored condition into an entertaining play, complete with dancing doctors and humour?

40:53Endometriosis, the musical, tells the story of Jane, who's trying to work out why she's always in pain. Maria Bartholdi is one of the co-writers. So this is a disease that affects one in 10 women worldwide. A lot of researchers and myself included think that number is even higher, something like one in seven, which is more than 200 million people around the world. Yet it takes on average 10 years to get a diagnosis. This is because there's not very much research funding, doctors aren't trained in it, and patients themselves don't know about the symptoms to look for to ask their doctor about. This is a chronic, systemic, full body disease that affects every part of your life.

41:32And we thought if we can just get some more people aware of it, that we would be doing our mission. I have to confess, I have endometriosis. And until I was diagnosed two years ago, I didn't even know what it was. So there's clearly an awareness challenge, isn't there, Maria? How do you think this musical is going to help with raising information and awareness about the condition? Well, we like to say as long as people leave our musical, at least knowing the word endometriosis, which is in the title, we've at least done part of our mission. We try to talk about the disease. The show is about our character Jane and her road to getting a diagnosis, which as you know, as many people know, is an extremely long and fraught one.

42:15And so by the end of the show, they've got a lot of information about what the symptoms are, what a treatment plan might look like, and steps moving forward. So hopefully people in the audience, if they have endometriosis, can see themselves in this show. It's an incredibly painful condition, isn't it? And a serious one. How do you turn that into a musical comedy? Yeah, so my writing partner, Kristen, and I were both very funny people. I'm a comedian. And when she asked me if I wanted to write this musical, I was like, absolutely. And we knew already it was going to be a comedy. I think humor is one of the things that helps us survive, right?

42:51At the end of the day, when you've cried all the tears, you can cry sometimes. All that's left is laughter. And we hope that audiences have a fantastic time at this show. It's really, really funny. It's funny and it has a message. So it'll leave you like parts of it will leave you in tears. Absolutely. But you'll also be like rolling on the floor laughing when you watch it as well. And we think that combination helps the message stick in people's minds a little bit better. There's a strange twist to all of this, isn't there, Maria? because you have endometriosis, but at the time you agreed to work on this musical with Kristen, you weren't actually diagnosed, were you?

43:27Yeah, that's correct. So Kristen was diagnosed and had been for a while when she asked me if we should write this musical together. And I said, you know, I'm not sure. That seems like a pretty niche topic or whatever. And I sat with it for a little while and eventually realised she was correct and we should move forward with it. And it took producing the musical twice for me to actually realize I too had endometriosis. I had been to my doctor many times for period pain and associated things that go along with this disease and had always been turned away or rebuffed or told me that period pain was normal or all these kinds of things that we hear time and time again, right?

44:05But it was only because I had the information from writing this musical that I was brave enough to actually go to my doctor and say, no, I want the surgery. I want to have endometriosis confirmed. And she actually tried to brush me off and said, you know, that's a pretty big step. But I pushed only because I had written this show. And sure enough, she told me it was the worst case she had ever seen. So the gaslighting from the medical community is a real thing. And even I think within our family groups, within our friend groups, within ourselves, we tell ourselves that it's normal time and time again when really it's not.

44:38And how do you feel about taking this to the Edinburgh Festival, one of the most famous musical and theatre festivals in the world? Yeah, this is absolutely thrilling for us. We've produced the show twice and we've had excellent reviews. Audiences have loved it. And my co-writer Kristen said to me, hey, why don't we take it to the biggest theater festival of all? And I said, you know what? It's crazy, but let's do it. You know, we've got a big worldwide audience. This is a worldwide disease. Like we need to raise awareness on a global scale. And a theater festival like this with more than 4 ,000 shows certainly helps us do that.

45:12You're a comedian. How are you making endometriosis funny then? We call it an absurdist comedy because honestly, living with this disease, trying to get a diagnosis, trying to find adequate treatment, doctors who believe you in and of itself is absurd. Right. So I feel like the premise and the way we've approached the show reflects the reality of living with this disease. And there's a lot that when you take 10 steps back from it is it can be funny. We have a scene and a song called TMI, which stands for Too Much Information. And it's where our lead character, Jane, is trying to talk to her family about her problems with pain.

45:48And the family is so uncomfortable, they can't bring themselves to talk about it with her, which is certainly something that, you know, I think a lot of people with endometriosis can relate to. And so the scene is comedic in that the family keeps trying to divert the conversation and use euphemisms to try and talk about her pain when really they're avoiding the topic entirely. So it's a really serious thing that we're trying to say in this scene, a serious message, but we're doing it in a comedic fashion. And why would someone who hasn't heard of endometriosis or got endometriosis find this an entertaining musical?

46:20I feel like a lot of people can connect with this musical on numerous different levels. Having co-workers or a family that won't talk to you about important things, a lot of people can relate to that as well. And honestly, it's just a terrific musical. The songs are incredibly catchy. you'll be singing them for days afterwards they get stuck in your head it's a fantastic time like i said it's a really funny piece of theater too so even if you're not interested in the medical side of it i think it's got something for everyone that's maria bartoldi one of the co-writers of endometriosis the musical which opens this weekend in edinburgh that ends this edition of news hour i'm regini vaidhanarvan from the team and myself thanks to all of you for listening

47:31The U.S. what they saw. For more, listen to The Global Story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

From the publisher

Ukraine steps up its attacks on Russia - with strikes on logistics warehouses and other infrastructure overnight. Officials say at least five people have been killed and 10 more injured.

Also on the programme: European Union interior ministers hold an emergency meeting to discuss last week's influx from Morocco of up to 70,000 migrants into the tiny Spanish territory of Ceuta; and the musical that uses humour to raise awareness about the chronic women's health condition endometriosis.

(Photo: A drone view shows the site where houses were heavily damaged by a Russian drone strike, amid Russia's attack on Ukraine, in Mykolaiv, Ukraine in this handout picture released August 4, 2026. Press service of the State Emergency Service of Ukraine in Mykolaiv region/Handout via REUTERS)

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