Where do Presidents Trump and Xi stand on AI?

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1:13Hello and welcome to NewsHour from the World Service of the BBC, live from London. This is Owen Bennett-Jones. There have been red carpets all over Washington as President Trump has done his best to give his Chinese counterpart, President Xi, the grandest possible welcome.

1:38So a fanfare ahead of the state dinner, during which President Trump presented the Chinese leader with a sculpture of a bald eagle. and the days of the US raising human rights are long gone and have given way to an acknowledgement that China governs in its own way. As the leaders of our two nations, President Xi and I both understand that we represent different systems, but the ties between our people endure and we've never gotten along better. As for President Xi, his message went along the lines of don't fear us, work alongside us.

2:23President Trump has pledged to make America great again and lead the American people to achieve significant development milestones. China is committed to achieving the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation. Chinese modernization has continuously opened up new horizons. Both goals are ambitious and can surely mutually reinforce each other. Well, most of the analysts previewing this meeting said, and indeed those now covering it, are saying that it's not clear much of substance will come out of the visit. Let's speak now to Daniel Lipman, White House reporter for Politico news website. And since you're Politico, I should ask you, first of all, you were banned from the White House.

3:05A judge said you should be back in. And I think you are back in a little bit, aren't you? We are. And so there's this two-week temporary restraining order that a judge ordered the White House and the administration to let back in Politico, MSNOW and CNN. And so hopefully we'll be in permanently. And we were grateful that a lot of our media colleagues helped us in this court fight. Yeah, so they joined you in a sort of boycott. And just to say what happened is incredible. I mean, you can confirm this actually happened. US journalists at the dinner got less access than the Chinese ones. Yeah, it was quite something.

3:46And there was also jostling between some Chinese journalists and Secret Service agents because the Chinese photographers wanted to get better photos. and so it's kind of in league with the human rights not being left you know being left off the agenda when you don't have as many of those journalists who are given access to this dinner. Right on the substance of the meetings this is the latest just come through US President Donald Trump Friday said he had a very productive meeting with Chinese President Xi tremendous as things will be happening. And that's it. No details. And that sort of sums it up, really, doesn't it?

4:28Yeah, the U.S. did get two pandas that are going to be sent to the zoo in Atlanta. There was a two-month extension of the trade detente. I think the Chinese are agreeing to buy 25 million pounds of soybeans. But this was a meeting and a state visit really heavy on symbolism and Trump showed off the military and the new helipad. And he gave Xi a tour of Marine One, the presidential helicopter. But we didn't really get any breakthroughs on critical issues bedeviling the relationship. Okay, well, thanks very much for just giving us that update on what's happening. That's Daniel Littman, White House reporter for Politico.

5:17Well, there is one issue that's very much in the background of this meeting, and there have been some discussions about it. It is artificial intelligence. Now, in the last few weeks, it's become clear that President Trump is consistently relaxed about the issue of the degree to which AI should be regulated. But it became clear in the dinner this was that President Xi is slightly less relaxed about this.

5:47China and the United States are both major powers in artificial intelligence. We have the ability and the responsibility to develop and manage AI well and ensure that the development of artificial intelligence remains under control and benefits humanity. Now, there are cynics who say that that is not really quite what President Xi means. His concern is not so much about humanity as to whether or not AI should be under the control of the Chinese Communist Party in terms of how much information is released on sensitive subjects. So anyway, where are Washington and Beijing on AI? To understand more about that, I've been speaking to Professor Sun Cheng-hao, who's based at Tsinghua University in Beijing.

6:32And he's been involved in a couple of rounds of the China-US and China-EU discussions on AI. And also to Scott Singer. He's from the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and really a leading expert on this issue of AI regulation in the US. But before getting on to the rules, as it were, I asked first about public attitudes to artificial intelligence and put it to Professor Sun that the surveys in China show much more optimism about AI than their equivalents in America. Chinese people are generally more optimistic about AI. First, many people in China still associate technological change quite strongly with economic development and improvements in daily life.

7:18So over the past several decades, the digital technologies from mobile payments and e-commerce to high-speed rail have often been experienced as something that makes our life more convenient. Second, AI in China is often discussed in terms of very concrete applications. We are very familiar with the healthcare apps, education apps, and also we use those AI in our transportation system. So the public debate tends to focus heavily on what AI can do rather than beginning with the question of whether AI itself poses an existential threat. And thirdly, I think there is greater confidence that government can intervene when problems emerge in China.

8:04This does not mean Chinese people want unregulated AI, quite the opposite. China has already developed regulations covering algorithms and generative AI. And the implicit social expectation is often that innovation should move forward while government manages the risks. Professor Singer, could I just pick up on the middle one of those? You know, the Chinese are thinking, what can AI do to benefit us? And in the US, I mean, it must be embedded already into healthcare systems, just as it is in China and all the rest of it. But why don't people think along the same lines, do you think? It's a different political economy model.

8:38I think for China, there is a really strong state-backed effort to integrate AI in what is known as the real economy. As Professor Sun says, AI is going to be useful. And I think in the US, this is driven less by the state and more by the market. Yeah, so it leads to a bit of a paradox, because we're hearing that in the US, there's more suspicion, let's say, of AI and more nervousness. And yes, there's less regulation there, I think it's fair to say, isn't it, Professor Sun? And in China, where there's more enthusiasm, there's more regulation. I would say China has developed more extensive and layered regulatory framework for AI applications.

9:20Because China began regulating specific parts of the AI ecosystem relatively early, there are rules covering recommendation algorithms and also deep synthesis technologies such as deepfakes and generative AI services. And the generative AI rules cover issues also including like training data, personal information, and content safety, so on and so forth. Since September 2025, China has also required explicit and implicit labeling of AI generated content. And more recently, China also introduced specific rules for AI services, addressing issues such as emotional manipulation, excessive dependence, minors and psychological risks.

10:08So I think one characteristic of the Chinese approach is application-specific and risk-specific regulation. Scott Singer, can I just ask you, when it comes to trying to get Chinese-US cooperation on regulation, how much of an issue is it that both may be chasing the same global markets to export their AI technology? Well, I think that there's definitely a desire to improve capabilities and that both countries see this as a technology that is central to their economic and strategic ambitions. At the same time, I think it's very clear that there is going to need to be trust in the technology and that well-informed policies can make these technologies safer.

10:54Something that is already happening, at least in the U.S., is that one of the most important things that you want to do before you put your model on the market is that you run it through a bunch of tests and evaluations that make sure it's not going to cause serious harm. And that is central to our risk management. It is required by California law. And I think that that is a core mechanism that engenders trust. I think that there is definitely this need or there's this reality that there's this competition that's going on, whether you see it through a market lens or a security lens. But what is ultimately going to be clear is that both countries have a responsibility to make sure the technology they're deploying is safe, and consumers are going to demand that.

11:42Yeah, so you're almost saying that better management and regulation will help exporters. Yeah, that's right. I think that over the last few months, that global trust in this technology is decreasing. You can definitely look and point to differences in the US and China and around the world. But the truth of the matter is is that we have evidence that AI capabilities are improving rapidly and that with those capabilities come serious risks. And it is on both countries to manage these risks independently while having a serious conversation about you know what are some of the best practices? How can we share information that is going to prevent serious extreme harm?

12:24And so I do think that there can be really a race to the top in some ways on safety, and that within that race to the top on safety, there can be very carefully scoped conversations and information exchange that make both sides safer. So Professor Sun, do you think both sides can help each other do this well, or their competition will mean they both do it unsafely? Of course, we have a very fierce competition between each other, but at the same time, we face some shared risks. And we can cooperate. The first area is major AI incidents. The two governments are already discussing an incident line that could be used when an AI system causes a serious national security event.

13:08For example, maybe an autonomous agent conducting a major cyber attack. The key is to clarify whether an incident was state-directed, caused by a non-state actor, or resulted from unexpected AI behavior before it triggers geopolitical escalation. Second, I think the two sides need to develop a shared language of risk. So when Americans and Chinese talk about loss of control, meaningful human control, they may not mean exactly the same thing. So without some common definitions, it is very difficult to build operational mechanisms. And last but not least, I think military AI should gradually become a separate risk reduction track.

13:47China and the US already share an important principle in 2024 between the two presidents that humans should retain control over nuclear weapons decisions. So I think we have already made some progress and we still have a lot of work to do in the future. And that was Professor Sun Chenbao and Scott Singer.

14:09You're listening to the World Service of the BBC and coming up a little later in the programme, the dramatic eviction of an 87-year-old woman from her home that sparked nationwide protests against the housing crisis in Spain.

14:32They are inhuman. You can't make somebody live for seven years as I have done with a machete at my throat. And then they cut my throat, and all just to make money at other people's expense. And the main headline just now, Vladimir Zelensky has said President Trump has reassured him Ukraine will get a license to produce what they say are desperately needed patriot missile interceptors.

15:07The leader of the Roman Catholic Church, Pope Leo, is currently on a visit to France, which kicked off with an opulent gathering in the president's Elysee Palace. It's a four-day visit, and one of the events will be dedicated to young people, perhaps reflecting the fact that the number of conversions and baptisms in Catholicism amongst young people went up very sharply last year.

15:35France is a land of rich Christian heritage, of Clovis' baptisms.

15:47The power of your country has been deployed through the umbrella of the Christian faith for centuries. There we are. That's the Pope speaking. I think I heard our correspondent saying in passable if accented French, or very good, but accented French. Elise Anne Allen is a reporter with Crux. It's a Catholic newspaper and a biographer, I think, of the Pope, aren't you? So can you just tell us a bit about what he is thinking about this visit, why it's important? Well, good afternoon. It's wonderful to be with you. Yes, I am a biographer of Pope Leo. And I think this visit is important for Pope Leo for many reasons.

16:25The first of all, I think, is a very personal reason because of his own French roots. He has French roots in his own family, in his own ancestry. And he gave a nod to that in his first speech today. So I think for him, this is, you know, a bit of a homecoming, you know, for Pope Leo. So I think he's quite jubilant, you know, to be in France and to be amongst, you know, his people in a sense. But I also think that there's a great significance that France holds, you know, on the world stage today. You know, it is home to so many important institutions, not only UNESCO, which he will visit this afternoon.

17:00He should be visiting it right now. but because it is so central to also the European Union and to the happenings within Europe, right? The discussions, the important discussions that are being held right now, France's contribution to that discussion, to the European discussion, but to the global discussion have been very important. And I think Leo is very keen to engage France, France leaders, the French people, and much more broadly, Europe as a whole, in the important conversations of today. So that's why France and why it's a big four-day visit. But just on this, I mentioned events being dedicated to young people.

17:42Have you got any sense from your knowledge of the church and what's going on as to why so many teens in France, and it's not just France, are converting or getting baptised into the Catholic faith? I think that there are several reasons for that. You know, I think what the church's position would be, and I think studies, you know, they would cite studies to this effect, you know, having lived through a great time of secularism, right? If you think back to the papacy of Benedict XVI, he would oftentimes lament this wave of secularism that sort of swept through Europe and much of the West, much of Western society, to the extent that faith has almost been divorced from the rest of society.

18:27And where at times they feel the church has been pushed and marginalized and pushed off to the side. And Leo gave – he acknowledged that to an extent in his opening speech today. And so I think that the analysis is that having lived in an environment where faith no longer has such a pronounced role and where you're also in an environment where technology has increased and social media is taking an increased role. People, you know, there's a deficit of, you know, what Leo would say is human relationships. You know, so people, I think the analysis is young people are really craving something authentic.

19:03They're craving meaning. They have a lot of resources at their fingertips and at their disposal, but in a world in which relationships are mostly online and where everything is digital. We're in this era of artificial intelligence where artificial is the first word there, you know, and you see everything through filters, not necessarily reality. I think the calculus is that there's a real thirst for something real. There's a thirst for the truth. You know, Leo brought this up also in his trip to Spain when he met with young people, that there's a real hunger for something authentic. And people are really searching right now.

19:39And I think that a lot of people are finding the answers again in faith and in the Catholic faith. That's very helpful. Thank you very much. And you're covering that visit. That's Elise Ann Allen, who's with the Crux Catholic newspaper. A rapid test for brain tumours can significantly cut the time it takes for a diagnosis from weeks to a couple of hours. And that means surgeons can get the result of a test while they are still operating on someone. It could mean patients can start treatment sooner and certainly avoid weeks of anxious uncertainty. Hospitals in the UK are trialling this. Our medical editor Fergus Walsh followed one patient's treatment.

20:23Steve Palmer is being wheeled to the operating theatres at Queen's Medical Centre Nottingham in the heart of the UK. The 55-year-old collapsed a few weeks ago and was diagnosed with a brain tumour and is being prepped for surgery. Hopefully all of it removed would be great. Then I can get on with recovery and whatever comes next and then it's getting back to hopefully some normality. So this is the scan of Stephen's head. made by the computer system. In theatre, neurosurgeon Stuart Smith is reviewing MRI scans. This is the right frontal lobe where the white area represents the tumour within his brain that we're going to be operating on today.

21:05How big is that? This tumour is about five or six centimetres across in total. More than 12 ,000 people a year are diagnosed with a brain tumour in the UK alone. There are more than 150 different types and a thorough genetic analysis means a definitive diagnosis can take six to eight weeks after surgery. Not this time. Once Steve's tumour is exposed, the surgeons carefully select tissue samples. Damaged by any of the surgical techniques. This all looks viable. It doesn't look necrotic. And then chop right. These contain all the genetic information needed to grade and diagnose his tumour. They're bagged up and taken to the pathology labs.

21:52The rapid genomic test was developed by scientists at the University of Nottingham in partnership with hospital clinicians. And what we're hoping to have in 90 minutes or so will be a confident, comprehensive molecular classification. The samples are fed into an ultra-rapid sequencing machine the size of a shoebox. Molecules of DNA pass through a nanopore, or tiny hole, which reveals the tumour's unique genomic fingerprint. The nanopore is running now. It's been running for about 20 minutes. Dr Simon Payne, consultant neuropathologist at Nottingham University Hospitals, phones the operating theatre with the results.

22:39Given the bigger picture and those copy number changes, I think this would be most in keeping with the glioblastoma. Neurosurgeon Stuart Smith has taken the call. Yeah, I think we've probably done as much as we can in taking out the visible tumour. Yeah. Great. Well, thank you very much. That's really helpful and that will help us finish up the operation. A definitive diagnosis has taken just two hours, with Steve Palmer still on the operating table. Stuart Smith says it's an extraordinary medical advance. It seems almost magical that you can do things that quickly, but this adds a whole new level of information that will guide the surgeon, allow us to make more accurate decisions about how much surgery we do, how extensive that operation is.

23:27Hi Stephen, how are you? Neurosurgeon Stuart Smith is able to feedback the results and a treatment plan to Steve within days rather than many weeks. I'm afraid it's not great news in terms of what type of tumour it is. It is one of these grade four tumours and the name for that type of tumour is glioblastoma. But it does mean chemo and radiotherapy can start sooner. The other benefit of getting all the genetic diagnosis means that we have a full genetic profile of the tumour and that hopefully will open the door to clinical trials for you. There's a national programme being released. Obviously it wasn't what I wanted to hear, but for me getting that quick diagnosis, let's go on to the next phase of treatment and recovery and get on to fighting whatever I've got to fight.

24:22So it did help remove potentially weeks of anxiety? Oh God, yeah, absolutely. So a new test for brain tumours, hopefully reducing the amount of time that it will take to get a diagnosis of what's happening. That was the BBC's medical editor, Fergus Walsh.

24:57It's years in, and these pre-owned machines are still at the top of their game. We're talking reliability, performance, and long-term potential. And get this, these veteran machines can pick up the latest precision tech with ease. You know it, and fans ready to add John Deere-certified pre-owned equipment and more options to their lineup can shop at machinefinder.com. Booyah! It felt like everything I believed in was suddenly collapsing. This is the story of an Islamic boarding school in Indonesia with a dark secret. Of the school's head teacher. This was someone I respected above anyone else.

25:32And the investigation led by students he's trying to silence. If this is leaked to the media, I'll be destroyed. This is World of Secrets, catching my teacher. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app, or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.