2025 NFL Week 12 Late and Primetime Games Preview: Go Girl, Give Us Something

16:14Jourdan Rodrigue:different now that Raheem Morris has gone, Zach Robinson, Liam, but Sean's been there the whole time. So it's, yeah, they helped me out and, you know, helped me discover what offense I really want to play in and, you know, the responsibility that comes with in that a lot of accountability,

16:28Patrick Claybon:a lot of scrimmage and to check and get to the right plays. But yeah, it was instrumental in my career, something I'm forever grateful for, and it'll be fun to go back and see some familiar faces.

16:38Jourdan Rodrigue:Oh, I love that. I was like, I, yeah, I get, I think what people don't realize and And I know there's, I get a lot of like, why do I like Baker Mayfield so much? Or why am I always rooting for, for Baker Mayfield? And it's, it's partially because of that. Like I got to see that happen. And he talks so much about how like, uh, he found the fun in football again in that moment. What I hope he realizes is that he saved that building, him coming in all up until that game. let me remind people Sean McVay had given up play calling I've written about this extensively at the athletic he was in the worst like sort of mental health of his life to that point and he was he was reeling and the entire building felt it Matthew Stafford was injured the entire building was was tense and depressed and miserable and you could feel it walking into it was like the atmosphere was heavy and it just weighed on you.

17:38Jourdan Rodrigue:And when Baker Mayfield got to town, get the bleep button ready behind the glass. But he just, he, he came in there and he just said, we ball. And, and he had the most fun. The day he got off the plane, walking into that building, he brought Sean McVay back. He brought several of those assistant coaches back. And then he got them hired in other buildings because of the work they all did together. And they're currently either offensive coordinators or head coaches because of Baker Mayfield. And he brought that entire roster back into joy in a way that was so pure and true. And like one of the coolest things I've ever seen in my entire life.

18:17Jourdan Rodrigue:And second only was when I got to talk to him after that, that game, he showed up and 30 hours later, he was winning Thursday night football. And he showed me his notebook and all of his notes after the game. and it was one of the coolest things ever how uh you could tell almost when he flipped a page over how he had come back to life because I'm not kidding it was all in color everything all of these different colors of these plays and these little cadences that he had to remember and then he wears the wristband and Sean does not call one of the plays on the wristband he's just going they're freestyling the entire way like I've never seen something like that happen in uh life or in football and it's like it is a beautiful thing and I know that there's like a lot of mutual love there and it changed the trajectory not just of Baker Mayfield's career but of Sean McVay and the Los Angeles Rams as well because they were spiraling it is it's such an awesome story and so well told there too like and them now meeting at this point in the season who knows maybe they'll meet again in like the playoffs you could see that happening at some point with these it's almost surprising they haven't gone up against each other uh at this point because you're at a point where the rams are in the opposite of where they were then they are as high as they've ever been in the mcveigh era like in the regular season you had the jared goff you know super bowl season they were in the stratosphere there but here it's more of like a complete team where I think a lot of people this week are coming around to the idea that, hey, this is maybe the best team in football.

19:54And it's not just about McVay's play calling, which is incredible and Stafford's play, which is awesome. It's being able to win a game where he throws for 130 yards and having a defense, Patrick, this week that should create problems for a Baker Mayfield who's struggling. And man, he is as streaky a quarterback as I think there's been in the NFL. I would put Kirk Cousins in that group too and prime Kirk Cousins as any. And he feels like he's in a little bit of a dip. And you never know when he's going to come out of it. Like maybe the Rams in this great matchup. For some reason that makes sense to me that actually he'll come out of it this week.

20:30Like the week he gets off quarterback Island, the week he's almost a touchdown underdog. Like I could see that happening. He's going to need some

20:36Patrick Claybon:help from from Grizzard. You know, as our king. Yeah, the lizard king in this one because the the matchup with Buffalo seemed to dictate running the ball and they came out running the ball they ran the ball very well Sean Tucker had a great game but I felt like you never really got Baker involved enough in the pass game when when the Bills started going up and down the field and it's kind of a similar situation here where you'd like to attack the Rams on the ground but the team's never going to be as good as they're going to be unless Baker is having that success through of the year that he was having earlier in the season and you get the big plays um you know from tez johnson and abuka because you know and maybe you know uh chris godwin and bucky irving are getting closer to playing according to todd bowles in the middle of the week uh here in week 12 where we can kind of see what they what they were like where they were uh but but they're not doing it unless right and i don't think a godwin is going to be a difference maker for them just coming off that injury mike evans would be it's just weird because tez johnson and sterling shepherd seem open.

21:39And I think that's been the biggest problems is he's hunting these big plays and he's not taking the check downs that are there. He is 31st right now in success rate in the NFL when he has not been pressured. The only quarterbacks behind Baker Mayfield on the season are Cam Ward, JJ McCarthy and Dylan Gabriel, three rookies essentially. And there seemed like there's open receivers there to be had. And he's been forcing it a lot to a Buka or holding it. And And teams have had success stopping him from running, at least until last week.

22:11Jourdan Rodrigue:If you're King Wizard, the Lizard Wizard, and you're listening to this show right now, I think the way you get Baker back to himself is to get him involved in the running game and to hit him on some of those perimeter runs that the Rams are susceptible to and also to get your run game on these toss runs toward the perimeters that the Seahawks had a lot of success with, even as it was tough sledding sometimes for them up the middle running those old vintage Kubiak plays you know the Zorro toss and all those perimeter toss runs really was effective and Baker is a perimeter runner too and so I think that's how you kind of get Baker Mayfield's juice back and get him flowing and get him like I just I just remember and and watching it it's like you almost got to shake him out of his his mind a little bit you got to shake him out of it and and sometimes taking a hit, getting a first down and taking a hit will do that.

23:06Jourdan Rodrigue:And I think that that's an effective way to actually attack a Rams defense that is going to pressure the crap out of him and also be very, very difficult to run the ball on up the middle. He really missed Hasan Redick, who's possibly going to be back for this game, but it doesn't sound like it. But his window could be open. And he really helped them out because they are blitzing a ton and they're not getting a ton of pressure and he was really valuable for them. They might get Kalasha Kansi back for the playoffs potentially, but they just haven't quite been the same. I'll be curious to see if Jamel Dean plays in this game.

23:40He left with an injury last week. He has been their best cornerback and they've just been like, it's come down to them just being like a terrible red zone team for some reason on both sides of the ball. Like they, they actually are profiling as a better team than, than they've really shown up. But when other teams get in the red zone, they score. And when they get in the red zone, they don't score. That's a bad combination. All right, let's take a break. Hopefully we get a perfect little sequel to that Baker game. Yeah, it'll be fun either way. Although you know what I think of the sequel to that Baker game?

24:10It was the 50 burger he put on the Broncos on Christmas. That was like the sequel that was pretty fun too.

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25:55Back on NFL Daily. Jordan is here. Patrick is here. Yes. The Claymates are going crazy everywhere.

26:06Jourdan Rodrigue:The Claybon Bonds. The Claybon Bonds. No, the Claymates won the contest of the Patrick Claybon Fan Club. how have you heard that the meetings have been going lately? The Claybon Vivant. Well, I think people are deranged

26:24Patrick Claybon:that they would associate themselves with me. Anyway, I know they're having to bounce back. It was too much yelling for me last week in general. But there's, hey, we got no more early rise, wake up and watch. That's true. We're done with the international slate. So that particular part of the bit is dead. I may yell.

26:43Jourdan Rodrigue:Emphasis on bit, by the way, listeners. Thank you. Thank you.

26:47Patrick Claybon:Cross that off. Patrick really loves international football. But I also love football here in Los Estados Unidos, where the Jacksonville Jaguars, who I thought, hey, it's over. The Chargers are going to go over to Jacksonville. No, they did not. Liam Cohen and the squad said no. And they are two and a half point favorites against, again, the NFL's all-time single-game completions record holder, Jacoby Brissett. Jordan, what does he have in store for us this week? The over-under is 47 and a half. Spiro Ditas and Adam Archuleta on the call.

27:20Jourdan Rodrigue:Man, it's just hard to trust the Cardinals by about the halfway point of any season, really. If the Jaguars can run the ball the way that they did last week, there's no shot for Arizona in this game because it was a very depleted offensive line by the Chargers. I will say, while they are not from the same coaching family per se, there's some similarities in the type of matchup-based zone coverages that Jesse Minter likes to play and the matchup-based zone coverages that Jonathan Gannon likes to play. Liam Cohen and his group just took the teeth completely out of that defense, and they're feeling themselves right now.

28:02And yet, I don't have any particular faith that the Jaguars will, because this running game, usually we talk about like a quarterback's inconsistent or like their running game is inconsistent. If you watch like five games this year, five certain games, they look like one of the best, coolest groups in the league. And the other five, they've stunk.

28:21Jourdan Rodrigue:Messy fun. Right. And this is weirdly kind of the prove it game, I think, for the Jaguars. Because I think I can totally imagine them losing this game. If you're going to be a real serious team, if you're going to make the playoffs, essentially this game is a game that you can and should win and so i just want to see it like i'm not sure it's going to happen i probably am going to take the cardinals i don't know why yeah i'm not sure why either greg because i because it just doesn't make sense because the cardinals

28:52Patrick Claybon:shouldn't be three and seven they're not this bad no they're they're not but they've gotten worse um and yet they are they it's true they have gotten a lot worse they said mac mac wilson went to ir and it got to the point where even you greg were thinking the seahawks had figured out the run game because they were playing the arizona cardinals and they're good on defense uh but no like that that was just not the case and then christian mccaffrey's having his best uh yards per carry uh performance of the season and so like either those two teams suddenly got much better at running the ball or the cardinals are just falling off the map on defense and not having a guy who's been good in past coverage as well uh with the run fits he's the team captain he's he's making the calls as well where it's having it's having a whole lot of impact where i'm watching the way that and we'll see if basial tootin is able to play in this game but both of him and etn you could throw trev in there um if if the jags can run the ball against you that that's that's the spot so like if they're going to win any games i would take them to win this man you know

29:51Jourdan Rodrigue:what was kind of cool was watching that game last week and facial tootin came out swinging like he looked like a steam engine immediately and it almost was like you know retin was like okay hold my beer like i'm gonna cut you know and and become really this dominant one two punch and i i just i loved it i thought it was cool it you could see them true like a true um two back system you could see them almost feeding off of each other's success prior to the injury. I hope he plays. I'm in the Tootin' Hive, as we know. You were honking. The Tootin' Hive was loud and enjoying it and not happy when Etienne came back into the game.

30:33And then Tootin' got hurt, I think. You just wanted all Tootin' all the time. I wanted everyone to be successful.

30:40Jourdan Rodrigue:You were just like, lean on Tootin. We don't need any of this Etienne stuff. Did you hear Patrick just now? Did Greg do that thing where he just made up something that you were wanting him to carry the load. They're both limited. Both limited. So that's a good sign. He's already limited. Pick him up. I do think he's a good pickup. I noticed he's available in both my kids' leagues. So I was like, Tootin, get him. I think they're both startable in this game.

31:06Patrick Claybon:If you have them both, if you've got like a handcuff situation, you've got Tootin in the event that ETN goes down, go ahead and put them both in your lineup this week, especially with all the buys. I was watching that game.

31:16Jourdan Rodrigue:If you're tootin', get to scootin'. I was watching that game last week. And Walter Nolan had another good game. And I'm thinking, oh, Calais Campbell's playing pretty well. And Josh Swett's out there. They put a lot into this defense. And you're right. They're not stopping the run. It's just why I feel like at some point they should win some games. Maybe they'll get back Trey Benson. Probably not this week. But he might come back. Jacoby Brissett, despite all the eyeballs, like he looks like he's playing well. And he's setting records. he's 29th out of 33 qualifiers in QBR. You know, there's like a million different stats, but in QBR, which does penalize you quite a bit for not being able to run, which he can't, and the turnovers that he's had, which have happened.

31:59You know, he's actually been significantly worse than Kyler Murray.

32:02Jourdan Rodrigue:And he will not have Marvin Harrison Jr. back for another week after the appendix surgery of two weeks ago. Shout out Michael Wilson. Yes. for uh highly productive yet no touchdown yeah the seventh highest uh scoring fantasy game of

32:18Patrick Claybon:all time by a receiver that didn't have a touchdown it's got to be the top by a receiver who's definitely not the best athlete in his own family the cardinals are also have been in his own

32:28Jourdan Rodrigue:marriage emerging running backs all year to demarcato's now banged up they i mean this this

32:34Patrick Claybon:team is struggling they're struggling would you guys like to talk about two struggling football

32:38Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah, I would.

32:40Patrick Claybon:The Cleveland Browns are playing the Las Vegas Raiders. The Raiders are favored by three and a half points. What? Oh, I'm taking that. It's 36 and a half. Tom McCarthy and Ross Tucker are on the call. As Greg, there are clearly people in Las Vegas who have confidence with the Raiders. Do you? I do not. I am doing a first, which is, you know, we do our segments with Cynthia against the spread. It went 3-0 last week, seven straight winning weeks. I'm previewing one of my picks here. Let's go Browns and Shadur Sanders plus three and a half. Let's listen to Shadur. I know our fans have a lot of expectations and hope.

33:28Patrick Claybon:and I would be doing a disservice to myself and disservice to the organization if I didn't feel like I am the guy. All right, he believes in himself. He was a very jovial press conference. I watched a chunk of it. He always seems happy to be there, which I appreciate. Obviously, my pick is not about Shader Sanders. It's partly about that I don't think the passing game is going to be demonstrably different with him and Dylan Gabriel. He might take more sacks. you might have a couple more big plays. It's not going to be good. It just, it would be surprising if it was good, even against the Raiders.

34:00It's just that we have literally the number one defense, according to DVOA and the NFL, playing for one of those teams. And they're the underdogs in this game. So I just feel better about that team.

34:10Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah, I agree. And I think too, the things that even the Raiders are like, I don't want to even say doing well, because nothing is going well. They look completely incompetent in every single phase. But the thing that does work when things work is Brock Bowers and using more 12 personnel. Well, hey, the Cleveland Browns are perfectly built to defend dynamic tight ends, especially across the middle of the field, because they have an absolute freak in rookie linebacker Carson Sueshinger, who you brought up earlier, making plays like this. This is such a bad matchup, even with the struggles on offense that the Browns have been going through.

34:46Jourdan Rodrigue:Such a bad matchup if you're the Raiders, because this defense can just absolutely smother you and they it to win this game they should score and i think they will score i misspoke by the way their fifth in uh total efficiency i think it was uh maybe it was against the past they were number

35:01Patrick Claybon:one or something like that yeah i i am with you greg uh hopefully cynthia doesn't pick up a game on game day view on us because we were both taking uh the the road dog to come in there and win but the to think about this game and what i'll hope to to talk about when we do game day view is there was a third and one in this game where the Raiders had two tight ends to the left and the Cowboys were in zone like to the strength of the formation on the other side and there were no numbers and they run a toss to Ashton Gentry on third and one and with no numbers and he's tackled for a four-yard loss and that was one of the final chip kelly called runs of the game and that was in the third quarter where i don't know what they're trying to do i don't know what they want to do and i don't know if they have the personnel to do what they want to do or or what they're what they're trying to do it's it's bad all around so yeah they're not beating cleveland like i i we talked in the earlier show about the the ravens and their issues with finding miles garrett who should be like the number one priority now i'm asking this offensive line, which is even worse.

36:13Jourdan Rodrigue:And reports kind of surfacing to about offensive linemen not knowing their assignments and not knowing what the calls are. And it's just like, it's all bad. And there's also a disconnect. I was texting Greg about this. Like we have eyeballs. We know that it would be really difficult to run the ball behind this offensive line, regardless of who you are as a running back, regardless of who you are as a coordinator to call runs. It's just not going to probably be very successful at the same time. Pete Carroll comes out there every week into into the media and a talks about how surprised he is that the defense isn't playing better i'm like the roster is the roster man like yeah and then b comes out and said and talks about how they need to run the ball more and i'm like are you telling your offensive coordinator this are you guys speaking to each other are you communicating because it seems like there's just pockets of disconnect everywhere in that building right and there's already reports kind of floating out there that yeah it could be a one and done for p and and for chip and then you know john spitek who had that relationship we had him on the show you know with tom brady on some level who's the general manager his draft class even if you look after ashen genti is contributing about as little as any draft class in the entire nfl like they had two offensive linemen they took in the third round that don't play on this offensive line jack besh was a second round pick who's not really playing or contributing at wide receiver like Darian Porter's at cornerback.

37:36And I'm sure he'd want some of those guys to play more. I, you know, you would imagine, um, but they're not even making it to the field. This is a hot seat game for both the coaches. Although Kevin Stefanski is one and O in hot seat games this year, beating Mike

37:50Jourdan Rodrigue:McDaniel, uh, in a, in a bloodbath, maybe a tryout of sorts for Kevin Stefanski. That's, That's spicy. Last thing I want to say, shout out to Evan Silva, Adam Levitan. Do great work at Establish the Run. Great podcast. I was listening to them, and I thought they were underselling just a little bit how good Quinjohn Judkins is. This is how good I think Quinjohn Judkins is. I would take him over Ashton Gentry right now if I'm doing a redraft. I think Gentry is a good player, and he'll have a good career. I think Judkins is a special player. They're both in bad situations, but I think Judkins has it.

38:27Wow, that's spicy. That's very spicy. That's my take. Okay. I'm going to disagree with the thing. Not a huge, huge thing, but yeah, I'd take him.

38:35Patrick Claybon:I think he's going to have a great career. We've got one more game. It's the Atlanta Falcons. It's the New Orleans Saints. It's one of the best rivalries in professional sports among the fan bases. The teams, sometimes things get active there. the saints are favored by one and a half points uh get well soon to michael pennix jr who is out for the remainder of the season uh with a torn acl adam amin and drew breeze on the call great drew breeze didn't uh mention i had his game last week uh i'm gonna do a segment that i think we're going to do once, which is constructive criticism for Drew Brees.

39:17And my feedback would just be like, give us more. That's it.

39:24Jourdan Rodrigue:What do you mean, though? You know, that sort of meme, like, go girl, give us nothing. You know, there's like a Dua Lipa thing. Oh my god! Early career Dua Lipa!

39:34Patrick Claybon:But after that meme, Dua Lipa did begin to give us more.

39:39Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah, she's a showman.

39:41Patrick Claybon:So you're trying to do what that famed... commenter did for Drew Brees. And you know what? I want to be fair. It was very low energy. You know how they say it's like, oh, just be yourself when you're on TV. It's like, well, not totally. You want a little more if you're low energy. I think even literally by the end of that game, I do feel bad about this. I think he was even perking up and getting more into it by the end of the game. But yeah, just give us more. And because the Saints fans are going to be watching, and that's that's a great fan base, but not all the Saints fans. I saw something our friend Adam sent to us.

40:16They've lost Shreveport. Shreveport's not even getting this game. That's how bad the Saints are right now. They're getting the Cowboys game, like locally. And it is like West Louisiana, which has a lot of Cowboys fans. But I don't think that's a normal thing, that they're not getting Falcon Saints in the state of Louisiana. And you get closer to like Smitty's hometown, and they're playing the Eagles. There is some of that. There's a lot of Cowboys fans. I get it.

40:38Jourdan Rodrigue:You guys want to play like a very quick guessing game? Sure. Okay. So we know the Falcons love to blitz a lot, right? That's their favorite thing to do, and it's a great way they're manufacturing pressure. And Tyler Shuck being the quarterback on the other side. How many passes, just put a number on it, do you think Tyler Shuck has so far completed against the blitz? Three.

40:59Patrick Claybon:Six.

41:01Jourdan Rodrigue:Well, you both sold them a little short. Only nine passes completed against the blitz. That feels like a lot for two games. Am I crazy? You're not, not, not a lot. Teams are blitzing him a lot. Okay. So on, on 22 blitzes, nine completions. So this is going to be another, Hey, is this an actual data set to follow? Or is this something that he can solve and figure out? That's important. I don't think he's looked bad. Honestly, I don't think he's looked bad. He won't have Brandon cooks who is taking up a lot of the snap share. So Brandon Cooks and the Saints mutually agreed to part ways, which I know Greg had some thoughts about.

41:40Jourdan Rodrigue:I'm trying to tee Greg up on his Loomis takes here. Well, now that we're handing out constructive criticism. Look, we spent all last offseason saying the Saints cannot move forward or last season in actually progress as a franchise. If they keep Mickey Loomis, there is no restart with Mickey Loomis and it's gotten even worse. Like that was one of the craziest contracts in the entire NFL. Who was bidding against them to pay Brandon Cook's like 7.5 guaranteed? Like this was easy to see coming. I think they were able to get out of some of the guarantee. If someone else signed him, which we'll see.

42:18I want to see if the Tyler Shuck stuff, to be real, can carry over. Because I don't know if a lot of it was in create mode, which was interesting. He is talented. But can he do it in more of the structure of the offense?

42:31Jourdan Rodrigue:And this is a better defense. This defense can really turn it on. You know, everybody has to have a good game. We were talking about Jesse Bates last week having probably one of his poorer games in recent memory. But this defense, they're getting pressure better. The rookie pass rushers that they brought in are playing really well. So I like the test for Tyler Shuck against this Falcons defense. And on the other side of it, I mean, you know, the Saints defense kind of is what it is at this point. And we don't really know what a new era of Kirk Cousins Falcons offense is going to look like. And yeah, as Mike Triplett said, courtesy of Drew Christensen, who did tell me that they got the two million dollars removed from the guarantees.

43:18Patrick Claybon:But Mike Triplett reporting that they were able to save those two million dollars. There's some other money. Yeah, but they still there was seven point eight guaranteed when it has the ED. on it it's like they weren't really guaranteed they still have to pay him all that well and that's the thing and which is why we should change the way we discuss right guarantees uh because it can't be in guarantees if it's guaranteed then then that money is going to the player no matter what conditional guarantees is an oxymoron also um re-aggravations of injuries is another thing that i will discuss because michael penix jr was on that report with a knee sprain and then he's playing and and now it's they're saying it's partially torn if you have a tear in your anterior cruciate ligament you have a torn acl so my general question would be how did michael penix jr play games with a torn acl that that would be my question uh as he now is season is over and the saints are playing in this game so before we go guys since you both read the famed final playoff game of Cameron Jarrell Newton.

44:22Patrick Claybon:Can you name three of the players that he completed passes to in that game?

44:29Jourdan Rodrigue:Kalen Clay. Wow, you got Kalen Clay. She covered the team. This isn't fair.

44:38Ted Ginn's no longer there? No.

44:40Patrick Claybon:We're past the Ginn era at this point. Trying to think who the tight end is for that team. Ginn was actually playing for the Saints at the time. Wow. Wow.

44:50Jourdan Rodrigue:Christian McCaffrey. Okay. Oh, yeah. That's a good one. You got it. Jonathan Stewart? Nope. What? No, J. Stu. Miss J.

44:58Patrick Claybon:Stu.

44:59Jourdan Rodrigue:How long ago do you think that game was, Craig? I don't know. Oh, it's the... He was in that game, bro. Like, you guys are making fun of me. Jonathan Stewart's on that team, Jordan. You covered that team, and you're coming at me for that. It's 17, right? Oh, yeah. You're right. And then, oh, my gosh. it was the the short receiver that returned to punt for them one time god i don't remember

45:25Patrick Claybon:britain burson oh but also you could have accepted about the guy that's going to be in the call of the minnesota agree bay game because g-reg was still playing oh but greg had a liz frank right

45:36Jourdan Rodrigue:was that the same no that was a year later damn it now he had eight catches for 107 yards i missed the list because i was gonna guess greg and then i was like no i remember standing in his Locker after he got the Liz Frank, so I missed it by a year. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's how much we're looking forward to this Kirk Cousins versus Tyler Shuck. That was actually a pretty talented offense. Greg Olson, Jonathan Stewart, Christian McCaffrey. Just a complete vacuum at the other important. Yeah, got to get Britton Burson out there. Get some routes. Yeah, I had wiped the memory of Britton Burson. Falcon Saints.

46:06I'm going to be assigning that to myself. There it is. Because that is one of the rules that I've lived by on both the Around the NFL podcast and NFL Daily is that one time I missed a classic Saints Falcons. And I said, never again, because they always deliver. So is Drew Brees this weekend. There it is.

46:26Jourdan Rodrigue:Go girl. After you're coaching. That's it for week 12. And look, by the next preview show, the season will be just about to start. Because the season starts at Thanksgiving, according to Bill Parcells. But the MVP conversation is already rolling. We are too. We will be back on Thursday night. It's going to be Jordan Roderick and Nick Shook doing the recap for a big Bills and Texans game. We've got some extra programming this week. I'm excited to debut. But until then, football's back. It's been a while. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.