2025 Week 12 TNF and Early Games Preview

22:09Good luck against the Vikings team.

22:11Gregg Rosenthal:Josh Jacobs is hurt. They're trying to get him ready to play by the end of this week. But he did have, I think it was a contusion that he banged his knee on the turf last week. And then also, I do think this is a game where they really want to try to throw the ball against a pretty tough Minnesota Vikings secondary. but Jordan Love is also playing through a shoulder injury like he did last week. And with positive results, obviously, but it is still something to keep an eye on. Yeah. The, the Packers scheduled quarterback Island. Yes. You know, I wouldn't have expected you Patrick to have already listened to the episode, but it was big news.

22:49Jordan Love did make it on to quarterback Island. It came down to him and golf somewhat towards the end. who was the very last guy on now. Now I'm forgetting.

23:01Gregg Rosenthal:Daniel Jones. Daniel Jones. Yeah. We had to, we had to keep him on ultimately. And love's got to, got to make us look good here. And it's going to be tough. Cause if we were just looking at the schedule, like they have five division games left. And I know the Vikings, like this is actually the easiest game I believe left on their schedule. They might have one Cleveland game, which is crazy to think that, that the Vikings would be the easiest, but they have the Vikings twice. They have an at Denver. They have a Ravens. Like, there are not easy games left. So you kind of can't stumble at home against a division opponent that's hurting a little bit.

23:39Let's take a quick break. We're going to come back. We're going to talk about the leader of the NFC North. Still getting used to that, the Chicago Bears.

23:54For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tremphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tremphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required. Tremphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur.

24:35Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit TrimphiaRadio.com. Lowe's knows Sundays are for football. So tackle your home improvement projects by Saturday and earn your Sunday with great deals on LG and Bosch appliances, select Bounty and Swiffer cleaning products, and more. Then once your to-do list is done, get ready to kick back, relax, and enjoy the game. Shop in-store or online now and earn your Sunday with help from Lowe's, official partner of the NFL.

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26:27For Massachusetts, 1-800-327-5050. For Iowa, 1-800-BETS-OFF. For Puerto Rico, 1-800-981-0023. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. This is Tab Ramos from Inside American Soccer. And this summer, Topgolf is turning into the ultimate soccer destination. They're not just throwing games on in the background. Topgolf is going all in on soccer. They've got a new soccer-themed game you can play with your group, special in-venue activations, exclusive food and drink items inspired by the global game. And at more than 60 locations, they've even installed full-size soccer goals so you can try to hit golf balls right into the net.

27:09And every match all summer long will be on throughout the venue. So it's a great place to watch with friends, hang out, compete a little bit, and enjoy the atmosphere. And if you want to keep the fun going all summer, you can get the Topgolf Summer Fun Pass, which lets you play every single day and bring up to five guests every visit. Get yours now at topgolf.com slash fun pass. Summer hits different at Topgolf.

27:35Gregg Rosenthal:These days, I hear about AI so often that I tend to tune most of it out. But I gotta say, Wix Harmony actually lives up to the hype. It's an AI website builder that lets you build any type of website with AI, but still gives you the freedom to edit anything yourself. So you're not just stuck with whatever AI gives you. And you've got an AI agent named Aria that can help you out. Try it for free at Wix.com slash Harmony. That's Wix.com slash Harmony. Back on NFL Daily. It's all happening. I feel like this is the last normal week of the year. My parents are coming in town like on Monday. Then suddenly Thanksgiving's here.

28:18Our schedule's jammed next week, but, you know, it's front-loaded, so we'll have a little different cadence. We'll talk about it then in terms of when we're releasing our shows. And then by the time they're gone, we're just a couple weeks until Rosenthal Christmas, the day that we celebrate Christmas before my family leaves me for Japan in actual Christmas.

28:37Gregg Rosenthal:And then we all rally around Greg as emotional support. Hang on to Greg. You know what? You know what cheers me up? What's that? Watching Mason Rudolph play football. No, that's not true. Although it reminds me, I do remember one of the Christmas seasons watching a Mason Rudolph game while they were gone because he was on that Saturday slate on the way to the playoffs for the Steelers that year. but Aaron Rodgers wrist has looked at that opportunity no Greg you will not get Mason Rudolph you're in mid-November you will get me as Aaron Rodgers is back in a place where he he once claimed to be the owner against the Chicago Bears two and a half point favorite Chicago Bears against Aaron Rodgers and the Steelers the over under is 45 and a half it's Ian Eagle and JJ Watt on the call as jordan we've seen the bears continue to win it's been fun wait that's just a weird sentence both in conjunction like that yeah i love it i mean i'm sorry it just threw me sometimes we get a little whimsical it's the bears the subjects and the fun and don't always agree uh do they do it again pittsburgh steelers and aaron rogers and get revenge for the entire city of chicago yes and I think so.

29:54Gregg Rosenthal:And, and, and Patrick, there was nothing wrong with what you said, by the way, it's just that I'm not used to hearing the combination of fun and bears and leading the NF NFC North. And, and by the way, what if I told you that the Chicago bears currently lead the NFL and explosive play rate, according to next gen stats and their second year quarterback, Caleb Williams, who was taking sacks at almost the worst rate of the NFL among quarterbacks last season has flipped that completely on its head. So against a Pittsburgh pass rush and a secondary that has been playing better in recent weeks when they're not getting spat on by people, this is actually, I think this shapes up really well for Chicago to play explosive football against the Pittsburgh Steelers.

30:38Yeah, I don't know what to think still about this Bears team. I want to see more.

30:45Gregg Rosenthal:Like hypothermia, just ease in, lean in and there is something and they've been winning these games late sometimes not against great teams i was i was shocked when i saw this week they are 25th right now in overall dvoa which is my favorite just overall efficiency metric i'm like wow 25th that that is surprising part of it is they they face the second easiest schedule in the nfl to this point they will face the sixth hardest uh moving forward this is actually one of their easier games on paper moving forward and i I agree. Like my instinct would say that they have more going on. We don't know for sure, Patrick, that Aaron Rodgers is going to play, but he did say after not practicing Wednesday that, you know, he hopes to resume on Thursday and that, you know, safety ability to protect himself will be, you know, the main concern, but it's sounding a little more optimistic.

31:35I ask you this, who do you think gives the dealers a better chance to win Mason Rudolph or Aaron Rodgers? I think, honestly, I don't think if Mike Tomlin believed at this point that, you know, Mason Rudolph gave them the best chance. I'm not asking who Mike Tomlin believes. I'm asking who Patrick Raybott believes. I will say Mike Tomlin is ahead of me. Greg's really on it today. In terms of football knowledge. You're asking me to choose between Aaron Rodgers and Mason Rudolph. So, you know, I'm not being unbiased here because there's a couple sides of a similar coin on that one. So, yeah, I'm going to go with Aaron Rodgers.

32:08Although different, different and interesting ways. I wonder what that quarterback.

32:12Gregg Rosenthal:Pretty similar, I think. I think so, but I see. I think pretty similar, Greg. I see like Mason Rudolph getting a lot of, he gets a lot of love from the God squad, I would say, that supports certain quarterbacks. Whereas, you know, Aaron Rodgers is kind of a heathen. So they are different in interesting ways. Let's move off that and let's listen to Mike Tomlin being asked about Jalen Ramsey and everything that happened with Jamar Chase last week. I have no message if someone spits in your face. Do what comes natural. Yes! See? He's an honest guy. Oh, I love that. You know who also loves that and is going to, you know, already was playing hard, is going to fight and die for Mike Tomlin is Jalen Ramsey.

33:01Gregg Rosenthal:Because Jalen Ramsey always had this thing that he would say to Raheem Morris, a close friend of Mike Tomlin, they've probably been on the phone a lot trying to figure out, you know, how to get the most out of this guy in his veteran years. He always would say, I'm with you when you're right. And Mike Tomlin is demonstrating that there. Jalen Ramsey is correct in this situation. It's just crazy. We saw a first spitter early in the season. Now we've seen a second spitter. You know, everyone just keep it contained. The second spitter was Jamar Chase in this instance, where it's almost a sign of positivity for Ramsey that he's in that spot.

33:43Reminding me of the A.J. Green, Jalen Ramsey matchups or all these other matchups where things are getting itchy. The offense isn't having the success that they would like to have against the Jalen Ramsey secondary. And yeah, guys are getting frustrated. So that's a positive sign. My concern would be against this Bears offense, where Jordan already pointed out the explosives, the Steelers have struggled with some tight ends. And I know one of those was Tucker Craft having like the Tucker Craft game, which kind of makes the stats a little sideways here as of late. But I think considering he was hurt at the start of the season, it's been a huge boost for this offense, the way that Colston Lovell has been playing.

34:20I think part of this game. He's good. And, you know, on the other side, I mean, part of the reason I'm not sure about the Bears is their defense. That's the main reason.

34:26Gregg Rosenthal:Yeah. And they did get Kyler Gordon at practice back this week. And they got Jalen Johnson back at practice last week. We don't know if either one of them will be activated, but that could really help out a team that is blitzing like crazy and still getting no pressure. And that's why I asked the Mason Rudolph question, because I just don't know. Like, I do think he could unlock DK Metcalf, maybe a little more. I put it this way. That's one of the saddest sentences I've ever heard. I would say, you know, you put Mason Rudolph in and we know who he is. He's a backup for a reason. Aaron Rodgers is one of the two or three worst starting quarterbacks to me in the NFL right now.

35:05So it wouldn't like shock me if if he played that he would help out. And I think Aaron Rodgers would be aware of that, too.

35:13Gregg Rosenthal:Well, they're and they're not getting they're not just not getting pressure despite blitzing like crazy. They're also not getting any quick pressure. So even sending a brushing attack that is designed to try to get quick pressure on the quarterback, they are taking forever when they actually do get pressure to hassle a quarterback. So I would think that if you're going to play Mason Rudolph, who has, I mean, pretty much everybody has a longer windup than Aaron Rodgers does at this point. But if you're going to put a quarterback in who is definitely a backup and will have a longer time to throw naturally than Aaron Rodgers, then yeah, I mean, why not?

35:46Gregg Rosenthal:It's kind of a safer situation. Patrick is laughing at Mason Rudolph. For what it's worth, we do have a one-to-one comparison last week. It's an emotional rollercoaster segment. Where they basically, they looked similar. I mean, Rodgers looked worse, but they looked similar. Yeah. The vaunted Bengals defense. I'm saying neither one of them looked that good, to be honest. If the Bears don't win this game, though, it is crazy how the NFL, like, things can change fast. We're talking about how they're in first place. Like, this is a big game for them. Win this at home because if not, you're at Philly, at Green Bay the next two weeks.

36:17that those that's a possible three game losing streak uh right looking you in the face but i think this is a very winnable game it's going to a team that not win uh this past week in fact look rough but they are back at home where jared golf famously an indoor cat the detroit lions 10 and a half point favorites against mike kafka's new york giants mike kafka saying um when on the day that we're having this conversation that jackson dart is progressing through the protocol He had a non-contact practice on Wednesday. Greg, I know we enjoyed the Jameis experience of it all. Maybe limited to one week.

36:55Yeah. And Dart back against the Lions. I think that's good. I think that's good for Giants fans. It's good for NFL fans. If we get Jameis one more time, but that was like a perfect Jameis game. Had a little bit of everything. That's fine. The Lions are the more interesting part of this game. And I would expect them to win. Ten and a half points is a lot, by the way. I'm not sure if I totally trust them there. Their interior offensive line, which we came into the season, being like, oh, is this going to be the thing that gets in the way? It really is starting to hit home that, man, this thing is the thing that might really get in the way because Tate Ratledge is their starter.

37:29He's the guy they drafted. He was the one getting really thrown around last week. Glasgow, who's the center, has not been great in figuring out the protections. This is a game when they have the ball on offense where at least passing the ball, the Giants have the right people to give them problems. I thought Dexter Lawrence is coming off maybe his best game of the season.

37:47Gregg Rosenthal:Yeah, I'm glad you said that because he looked very vintage Dexter Lawrence and against this Lions interior offensive line, particularly on pass sets. This is this could be a huge mismatch. And we know that Jared Goff would struggle when facing specifically that type of pressure up the middle or even up the inside edges of his pocket. So for me, this Lions team has to get back to doing what we know they can do. It's just running the ball. The Giants cannot defend the run for to save their lives. They cannot defend the run. If you get into the second level of this defense at all, you're gone. And I just think that that's where some of the speed that they have, some of the yards after catch ability that they have.

38:28Gregg Rosenthal:You don't have to make it glamorous. You don't have to make it sexy. Just short, quick yak passes and run the ball. That's all you have to do. If you're Dan Campbell, you're going to love your glasses on. You're going to love holding that play sheet for something like that down a little bit. And again, like his faces are going to be all beaten by the wind and red. And it's angry because Jalen Carter is ruining their entire evening in Philadelphia. And they get a better matchup because I know Brian Burns has had his career high in sacks. But Panay Sewell is letting pressure get to the quarterback on just 5 % of his pass sets this season.

39:03And Jared Goff only completed one pass when he was pressured last week. It was a woeful golf performance. That one pass was actually the touchdown to Jamison Williams. And like, there were so many, like the look from the backside on the one that was on fourth down to Jamo, where he throws like a split finger fastball that hits Williams in the knee. Just I'm, I know that that was an anomaly. Jared will be back to complete and passes. It's just a question for Dexter Lawrence. Like, can you simulate a little bit of what the Eagles were able to do on the interior? Cause I know they're great on the edge, but that's, that's not where you want to attack the lions of golf.

39:39I'm still not that worried, at least like big pick, like going to win a Super Bowl is going to be tough. I think playing indoors, playing at home is going to be big for them. So they really have a small margin for error to win the division. They are not outdoors again, by the way, until week 18 at Chicago. So that's favorable for them. They're at home here for three straight games. I do think Sam Laporta's absence, it just changes who they are a little bit. Jamison Williams is playing fantastic. But ever since Amon Ra made that prompt, remember he dropped the ball against the Chiefs and he was like, that's never going to happen again.

40:12I think about that every time that it happens again. It keeps happening. It's happened in big spots. Not that, I mean, I'm not, he's low on their list of concerns, but just don't throw that out into the world.

40:23Gregg Rosenthal:And on the other side too, you mentioned Brian Bird. There's also been a little drama locally with Abdul Carter, who's had, I would say, probably a disappointing start to his NFL career. My athletic colleague, Dan Duggan, reported he slept through a walkthrough and Abdul Carter says that he missed it because he was getting treatment. Sleep is recovery. So who knows? Right. But and then he said that my Kafka also changed the time and they were in communication about it. But he still did not play. This is a very November New York Giants story. There was still a disciplinary action taken. So but Abdul Carter obviously took, you know, he was very open and took ownership for all of that, regardless of the circumstances.

41:04Gregg Rosenthal:But it's just, you know, you really wish we had so much high expectations coming into the season about the collective of this defensive line, including not expecting Dexter Lawrence to kind of have some of the ebbs and flows that that he seems to have had coming off a great game. And the combination of Carter and Burns, it was so exciting and just has not come to life. A lot of it, they're playing from behind. They're not really able to rush the passer, I think, as much as they would like. but I would really just like to see what the future or the plan might be for this group. And Shane Bowen's coaching for his job.

41:36Gregg Rosenthal:So you got to put it together now. I'm concerned on the offensive side because so much of the dart success was in the RPO and the straight up quarterback run game. In fact, I'm pretty sure he got hurt on a play where the tackle and the guard pull and they're coming around, they're running the ball successfully, but he didn't protect the football or himself on that play. and considering how much of the day ball of it all it was where you have a quarterback and a coach where the coach would like to maintain his job and his employment and most of it was based on having office success with the quarterback where now I don't know if Mike Kafka is going to be utilizing Jackson Dart no I bet ownership has told them and I think they've kind of talked about it publicly too well it's been like leaked out there like subtly not so subtly about like oh we're showing him plays where he can be safer now.

42:24Gregg Rosenthal:Like the timing of it is sending a strong message to Mike. So like, what does rookie Jackson dart look like when he's, when he's not running the ball? Because you take those plays away. It was, it was a rough situation, especially against a good lines defense. That that's why I still think my line Superbowl pick has a shot. Is it a balanced team, which by the way, for fantasy people out there might've noticed the highest percentage ever of Jameer Gibbs snaps last. Yeah. So that coach, Dan Campbell pressing the Gibbs button a little more. Sorry, Montgomery. One goes up and, you know, the other goes down.

42:58Also a similar situation because he ran more routes than Amon Ra. So not as much chance to drop those passes. To a team the Lions distrominated earlier this season, the Baltimore Ravens are 13 and a half point favorite against the Jets. And AG has made the quarterback switch. it is to rod taylor starting andrew catalan charles davis jason mccourty are there on the call jordan what would you like to say about the 2025 jets well to rod taylor time

43:33Gregg Rosenthal:also what could go wrong uh what is it 13 and a half point favorite patrick how is that making you feel right now i feel probably better than justin fields here in this ah I said that on Monday, talk to both of those guys, talk to the team on Monday, so Tyrell will be our starter. Why did you decide to make that move? Because I wanted to. Thank you, Aaron. I have enjoyed our weekly segment, Aaron Glenn gets weird when asked about quarterback. Why is he so weird about it? Because he wants to be. The Ravens, wow, I don't know if I can do this. No, they don't quite qualify. You know how I have many different rules when it comes to bread picks and chicks and whatnot.

44:19And they're all breakable. One of them is just like, is this a team that's worth being favored by this many points in an NFL game? And it's hard to believe the Ravens are a consideration for that rule. But the way they've played, if you just took off the uniforms, like they don't seem worthy of a team that should be favored by that much. They just offensively aren't cohesive consistently. You would think that the Jets would be able to turn that around. But I thought it was notable that Lamar held the ball on the first play last week. It was almost like, OK, we're going to start doing this again.

44:56It was an RPO. And then Schwestinger was just like right there. Stopped it for nothing. And then later in that first drive, Lamar took off and scrambled. And it was an effective scramble. It got down to the three or four yard line. And it was partly because just Schwestinger made an incredible play on it and stopped it. If you're watching us on YouTube, sometimes the gods of YouTube just sync up and the play is playing while I say it. Schwestinger made an incredible tackle to stop. And I'm just like, ah, it's just like not quite happening. And then he barely ran the rest of the game. And I do think they're a little bit of a different offense without Lamar's running.

45:31And he's definitely having the worst season as a runner that he's in.

45:34Gregg Rosenthal:He's not healthy. I mean, it's pretty clear, even if they kind of hem and ha it away or whatever, like he's he's missing. He missed another Wednesday practice, according to local reports there. Obviously, we're recording during that time. So I don't know what the update on that is from John. Did it last week, too. So I guess that's becoming a weekly thing. Yeah. And he's not feeling fully healthy. And so that's where I think this becomes dangerous, because if teams. Now, this is the Jets. so but overall if teams start to key on the fact that they're less have less dimension to their offense and a huge element of danger is taken away from it um it makes them easier to plan for and I think for the Jets they could they could use a game like that I thought their defense looked better I mean they they went through some huge significant changes losing personnel but they're getting Will McDonald back he's leaving the team in pressure right now and I thought they've looked I thought that they have looked better now the offense who knows but I think the defense is starting to figure itself out, sometimes by necessity.

46:33It's not a help, I think. Yeah, it'll calm down things a little bit. And, you know, he trusts his eyes a little bit more than Fields is right now at this point in the season. And, you know, I'm confident in Ravens edge rusher Kyle Hamilton being able to provide a little bit of opposition for the defense. But over on the offensive side, obviously, you know, you're concerned about Lamar and his health. But I think you could take a version of 2018 Lamar out of a lab and he would still struggle to scramble with what's going on in front of him on the offensive line. Where not only the multiple times was Miles Garrett lost last week in the protections, but it seems like every single week where there's a stunt and Rosen Garden and Filele are having all sorts of miscommunication about where they're going and how they're going to pick it up.

47:26There was actually one of those that led to the interception, which like so many Lamar interceptions, like a Rube Goldberg sequence of events that leads up, you know, ball goes careening off a helmet from a guy crossing the guard's face on a stunt that ultimately Swessinger picks off. And then there was the Keaton Mitchell one where he Mitchell just serves it up on the on the volleyball play for a pick six where at this point you can't say if they figure it out up front because we're in week 12. like it's it's not going to get figured out and that's why Harbaugh is saying like it's not in Lamar's best interest uh to practice today like that's that's why Lamar is not practicing because there's a lot of them not because these guys need to practice at this point and some of them even aren't like Ronnie Stanley struggled and I can grant that he's going against Miles Garrett but I don't think it's been a great Ronnie Stanley year in general to your point things are worse than the other soccer yes uh here's some other players not practicing for the ring remember when they came out of the bye week and everyone was practicing it was like wow that's crazy unfortunately then you have to start playing football again and then everyone gets hurt again.

48:28Kyle Hamilton, Roquan Smith, Ronnie Stanley, starter Andrew Voorhees, Rashad Bateman and likely we're both out of practice and I don't think Bateman's coming back anytime too soon. They just haven't gotten the secondary receivers going consistently. Similar to a lot of years in Baltimore, but I thought this year would be different. Let's take one more break on our show where we're just talking In early games, what we do is we cut it up. Oh. And then we have the primetime game. Oh. In the afternoon games. That's a different show. Okay. It's different when you're on it.

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50:30This is Tab Ramos from Inside American Soccer. And this summer, Topgolf is turning into the ultimate soccer destination. They're not just throwing games on in the background. Topgolf is going all in on soccer. They've got a new soccer-themed game you can play with your group, special in-venue activations, exclusive food and drink items inspired by the global game, and at more than 60 locations, they've even installed full-size soccer goals so you can try to hit golf balls right into the net. And every match all summer long will be on throughout the venue. So it's a great place to watch with friends, hang out, compete a little bit, and enjoy the atmosphere.

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52:22Gregg Rosenthal:The participating U.S. Taco Bell locations for a limited time only. While supplies last, contact store for availability. We are back on NFL Daily. You know Steve called you out for all of the hand gestures? I remember. I was there. It was on the show. So I like to wave the note cards around. I'm feeling bad because I'm spying this next game, which before the season, if you heard there was an eight and a half point spread on a Bengals Patriots game, you would not think it's going for the visitors, the Patriots. But I'm feeling bad because I see that Trent Green is on the call and I'd be smirched.

52:58Oh no. You know, his integrity. And then you bring it up again. Yeah. Kick him one more time. But underrated player is kind of what I wanted to get to. is uh those offenses were explosive and is a great what if because as great as the kurt warner story was i always think i always think of trent green just watching that and thinking that could have been me you know he was the quarterback for you young listeners out there for that that greatest show on turf team uh got hurt in the preseason kurt warner took over and trent green still got it done yeah i'm the chief and if you want a little insight into what you know that sequence of events and how it uh played out means to kurt uh listen to his hall of fame image row where Trent Green was was up there as a part of the folks inducting Kurt into the pro football hall of fame yes Trent Green is on the call along with Kevin Harlan as we get to find out what happens when an unstoppable force travels through the empty vacuum of space the Patriots are eight and a half point favorites against the Cincinnati Bengals 50.5 is the over under as the Bengals once again at the top of the biggest over under highest over unders of the week Greg what do they do in this game against Drake May probably give up some big plays miss a lot of tackles I saw that score and thought like oh the Bengals defense actually played a little better last week you know the dealers got a couple touchdowns late one of them was on defense I was like okay they competed and you watch that game was like no they just couldn't get off the field.

54:30It was just giving up long 15 play drives against a bad offense. I don't feel any better than I did early in the season or before the bye or anything. I'll be curious to kind of see if Kayshaun Booty's back, if Ramondre Stevenson is back, like how they're reintegrated into the offense. But right now, this is an offense which has a lot of different parts working. And I think that's because of Drake May's ability in this offense to be empowered. Brian Hoyer, former Patriots backup said he personally, like he had played in the, you know, Shanahan system. At one point he was with the 49ers. He said he liked that McDaniels system because he felt like it just gave him more options of what to do at the line of scrimmage that you could really take hold of.

55:14He's an analyst now for the, for the Patriots. And he says he really thinks Drake may is like year five of a process that you wouldn't, that you would expect, like in terms of what he's doing. And you look at one of the touchdowns last week where, you know, He changes the play before, and they immediately pop one of those Travion Henderson runs. That was a couple weeks ago. And this last one was one of his passing touchdowns was on that, too, in that he really is doing a good job setting protections, especially knowing where the rushers are coming from, and seems advanced beyond his physical tools to just being a good head of his years mentally.

55:52Gregg Rosenthal:Yeah, you know what? I'm glad you brought all of that up, Greg, because it immediately flashed me back to when I get to watch them workshop some of this stuff against Minnesota's defense in joint practices over the summer. And I mentioned at the time to you that it was really weird to me because it was almost like they were telling him not to run when pressure came at him, but to like really feel it and understand it and see it for kind of what it was coming at him versus escaping at the first sign of trouble. And so when you do that, you can not only understand what real pressure looks like, but also you can have a better feel for what simulated pressure looks like and what different types of blitzes look like and all of the different things that teams will.

56:36Gregg Rosenthal:Now, I don't know that the Bengals are equipped to do this, but that they will throw at you over the course of the season if you're Drake May and getting that type of coaching is really significant to me because it does fast track your development if you can handle it. And clearly Drake may is, is really seeing it. Well, he's really seeing all the different types of protections he has to call. I think he's getting better support around him in terms of specifically what is going to happen on a play, um, with Travion Henderson, who struggled a little bit at the end, at the beginning of the year.

57:07Gregg Rosenthal:And if I'm looking at one of the many areas in which Cincinnati's defense is vulnerable, I would say this might be a really significant Travion Henderson passing in the passing game game because of the way they missed tackles and because of the way the two of them have really come along in terms of what are we seeing pre-snap what do we see what are we feeling at snap and how do we make things work post-snap and that's not even to mention the production he's getting out of Stefan Diggs and you know other receivers on the team yeah the play I was thinking of too was actually the Henderson receiving touchdown where right before the play he literally just tells Hunter Henry who to block on the play who's who he thinks is coming on the blitz Hunter Henry does it and then they hit the touchdown.

57:46Ramondre did return to practice. Mike Vrabel didn't really want to answer whether there's going to be a more split workload. He said he wants to make sure Ramondre Stevenson is back before they really address that situation. It's fine, right? You can keep Ramondre healthy and also give Travion a little more experience. Probably not a lot to learn in this one. Yeah. You know, running down the field by people and going in the end zone. but you know getting a chance to be in the protection game in the in the receiving game out of the backfield where more experience for you know one of the more explosive players in the league on an offense that's very explosive it's almost like he was you know held held there just just in the right moment when they needed him in that game against the bucks hit those home runs and now here they are fully operational into a great part of the season where they're Leading the division and Greg's feeling great.

58:37It's crazy. The Bengals threw a little bit of a curveball today with their injury report. Joe Flacco is limited. Joe Burrow is listed as a full participant. I've been thinking this whole time based on the reporters, the insiders, like Ian, who was essentially hinting at it. The second Burrow was activated off IR in terms of not activated, but his practice window open, that he was targeting Thanksgiving. So it would make sense to me if he's playing on Thanksgiving, I mean, Joe Burrow, that is, that he would start maybe fully practicing this week. But just something to keep an eye on. Could he come back even a week earlier?

59:13Gregg Rosenthal:You want, you don't want, I would think that you wouldn't want that, honestly, because Jamar Chase is not going to be there, right? But what I am interested in, so Yoshivas, you know, they can use him in a pinch. He is really productive when his number has been called. It just hasn't been called a lot because you have two of the best receivers in football as you're one and two on that offense. I don't doubt that this offense, whichever Joe is that quarterback, is probably going to have to figure out how to maximize Yoshivas. Or if Mike Gesicki comes back, using him all over as a passing mismatch, sort of like a move tight end, or maybe making him your number two, quote unquote, receiver at that point, you might be able to do it that way.

59:55I just think that even if Joe Burrow is full and even if it's,

1:00:00Gregg Rosenthal:it's early, I don't know why you would almost like waste a game with, without our chase on the field. I will push back to just not on that, but on all the people that are kind of like, why bring back Joe Burrow this year? It's like, he's best what he does for a living. And if he's ready, I think I think it's fine. Yeah. I'm saying like next week, cause I know there's going to be that conversation. It was like, why even let him play? uh gusicki by the way full full practice so yeah the second part of the caveat very important if if he's healthy uh if there are no lingering concerns where we're doing this this thing like oh we're watching being careful like only only if he's completely healthy but i'm i'm with you on you know if you have joe burrow you got a limited window all right you have 15 20 years to watch joe burrow play football hopefully um if he can play football it's better He should, which is why we should ball us a draft.

1:00:54So nobody's sitting there hoping. I will be curious to see Christian Gonzalez on T Higgins in this game. Would have liked to see it on chase more. It hasn't been the, it hasn't been the best Christian Gonzalez this year, like an incredible tackler out of nowhere. Like that's where he's stood out, but hasn't been great in coverage. I would say he's coming off of an injury and hasn't been playing with like the same confidence that, that he had in the past.

1:01:17Gregg Rosenthal:It was a hamstring too, right? So yeah, that's going to be, that's going to linger in your mind, not just your body for a while. How much do four interceptions linger in your mind? Sam Darnold and the Seattle Seahawks folks are 13 and a half point favorites on the road at the Tennessee Titans, Kevin Kugler and Moose Johnston on the call where the Titans are scrappy. Titans are scrappy, Jordan. They did it last week. Can they do the unthinkable this week? No, I don't think that. But I also, I got to give a shout out to Denard Wilson, honestly, because watching this Titans defense, they do not quit.

1:01:54Gregg Rosenthal:They run to the ball. They play hard. They are limited personnel wise, obviously, but they certainly, he has them playing probably best case scenario considering the circumstances around this entire team. And you feel horrible for them when you're, when, you know, you're seeing guys shouting on the sideline, okay, defense did its job. Now offense go do its job. And then it's just not going to happen because of all of the clear limitations, not just personnel, but also coaching. Now, I don't think that they come even close to manufacturing the same results out of Sam Darnold that the Rams did. It is a very specific Chris Shula Rams defensive line and secondary because of some of the simulated pressures he sends.

1:02:36Gregg Rosenthal:Like it is a very specific Chris Shula thing with Sam Darnold. Frankly, I don't think another defense can very easily replicate it without similar types of personnel, which the Titans do not have. So I do think that this is a back to normal game for the Seattle Seahawks. Um, their offense, certainly their defense. I'm excited to see Cam Ward try to make crazy things happen against this defense. I mean, I don't want him to, I don't want him to be put in danger or anything like that, but like, you know, we haven't, I would like to see him like workshop through what this defense is and what it will present to him because it will be one of the biggest challenges he faces all season, including the circumstances around playing this game with your head coach long gone and probably one of the more static offenses in the league, by the way, like they're not fooling anybody.

1:03:24Gregg Rosenthal:They don't motion. They don't shift. They run basically the same concepts over and over again. They're not asking him to do a lot pre-snap because they don't have a lot built in pre-snap. They're asking him to do all the magical things post-snap, which drives you a little crazy to watch because he's capable of so much more. But it's just this is the Seahawks team is a monster. It is an absolute monster on both sides of the ball, and Sam Darnold is the leader of it. Actually, you threw some shade at Sam Darnold earlier today, and I think Ernest Jones, or earlier this week, and I think Ernest Jones had, like, a really good response to you on that one.

1:03:58I mean, Sam's been balling. Like, if we want to try to define Sam by this game or what, man, Sam's had us in every f***ing game.

1:04:06Gregg Rosenthal:So for him to sit there and say, oh, that's my fault. No, it's not. He's our quarterback. we got his back in. You got anything to say, quite frankly, f*** you. You hear that, Greg? They got to put that on the TV. How have I been? I literally had him as, I was the deciding vote making him the MVP. You literally, yesterday, on Quarterback Island, yesterday, you said, I want to just punish him for a little bit longer. Oh, yeah. Well, I said, he didn't get the auto, like we, at the beginning, we just sort of auto-passed five people on. He was like, that performance, it took him off being on like the auto-pass, but he was next.

1:04:39He was sixth. And what a perfect way for him to rebound, get a free win. I mean, let's not give the Titans defense too much credit. They're like, they're competing for sure. But they're still like a bottom seven or eight. They could cover this spread in the first half.

1:05:00Gregg Rosenthal:I think, honestly, like I'm not worried at all about the Seahawks. I will make that very clear. But I really, if, you know, I feel for the team being in the situation that it's in. And I just, I have to say, like, for Denard Wilson to have them playing the way that they are. Nobody's given up over there on the defensive side. Yeah. No, and Jeffrey Simmons thinks that they're giving up on the offense. Like, when you're, there is a big schism here. Creditable. He said, he said after the game, how they had all these false starts at practice. he loves letting the business out from what's happening in the practice and that they didn't correct him.

1:05:36And I, it's not too hard to read between the lines. He's saying, I'm sick of that kid, JC Latham. That's how I read it. Cause JC Latham had three false starts. Didn't take any accountability when he was asked after kind of like, it was like, Oh yeah, well it was a different cadence. And it's like, well, everyone else didn't fall start off those cadences. And then you're like, okay, I'm kind of seeing what Jeffrey Simmons is specifically talking about. And I feel like it's probably JC Latham, their first round pick from a year ago. Yeah. If you add up the EPA expected points, Cam Ward has lost 97 this season on sacks alone.

1:06:10He's 38 ahead of any other quarterback in the league in terms of EPA lost on sacks. I would say a lot of those are on him, though, too. He by far leads the NFL in pressure to stack ratio. But a lot of them are on the offensive line. It's a smorgasbord.

1:06:25Gregg Rosenthal:Whatever the over is, do that and then understand it will be all Seahawks points. And I don't want Ernest Jones to say F me because the conversation tracker is not a person. But Darnold's four picks did give him negative points last week. So he's actually off the board as of right now. In terms of the conversation. No, he's still in the conversation. He's in. Did we have an update? We did have an update on the conversation. I was able to talk to Steve. Jordan was a vote as well. Bo Nix is not just in the conversation now, Greg. Bo Nix is number three in the conversation behind Matthew Stafford.

1:07:02Gregg Rosenthal:Eat it, Greg. After beating Patrick. Well, it says you, not me. No, it says the conversation. You know what, though? The conversation is measuring things that I would not, and I think is probably accurate in the mind of whatever dolt is out there. Exactly. If Bo Nix keeps this going at this rate, he probably will be getting votes. Yeah, to those who say this is a nonsensical process that seemingly is based on vibes and recently bias, yes. It's the MVP award. Man, I know some of the ways those Associated Press voters get their votes done. Get them, Greg. Back in the day. All right, let's take a break.

1:07:43And the break is really the end of this show. But stay right here where you can hear fire conversations about Eagles, Cowboys, Rams, Bucks. We got 49ers Panthers on Monday night. Stick around for that.

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