2025 Week 5 Recap: Buccaneers-Seahawks Thriller, Colts Cruise and London!

26:53Very much a young man who held his hands up, who said, I spoke to the team. I fessed up and I was very clear on apologising and they've all lifted me up and I wanted to go out there and prove myself. And I thought he was sensational in that fourth quarter. Yeah, and there's just no one doing it like Kevin O 'Connell right now. The plan to try and neutralise Miles Garrett, given what is going on all around the offensive line. And then you see mid-game, the Browns open up, they're going to play a ton of man coverage. That's what they do. O 'Connell is trying to gamify the match-ups to try and make things work.

27:21Then Schwartz starts jumping into a ton of zone coverage in the second half of the game. All of a sudden, they got to start releasing TJ Hawkinson down the field. They'd use Hawkinson constantly to chip Myles Garrett. When it's go time in the fourth quarter, everyone is out. We got to give Carson Wentz options. We got to go win the game. And I was actually disappointed in the Browns front. I thought that given they were getting basically four on five for a lot of the fourth quarter with all the stars they've got, those guys played really well inside. Isaiah Maguire had a good game, but they didn't really impact the game when it was a must-have-it drive.

27:51Will Gavin:Yet Jonathan Grenard in this game had more quick pressure, so that's 2.5 seconds or less than the entire Browns team. And we talked before the game which will be the bigger mismatch in terms of defensive lines on the opposing banged-up offensive lines. And actually, this is the healthiest the Browns have been all season. They got Jack Conklin back at right tackle. Their interior line, who are veterans, have been around a while, all were playing and ultimately Minnesota I think did a better job affecting Dylan Gabriel who played well like I know it wasn't amazing and you can't give too much credit to an offense and a quarterback that had the ball four times in the fourth quarter couldn't score couldn't move the ball at all in the in the first three drives where they really had a chance to put it away but I kind of give the Vikings pressure credit there and I think they actually did have a better chance to win with Dylan Gabriel playing today than if Carson Wentz had played.

28:49Yeah, I agree. And it was decision-making. It was time and time again under pressure, not panicking, making the right call, taking the check down, taking the throw that was available to him. And I just think there were two or three times where he either threw the ball away or had a good incompletion when he wasn't trying to force things in And you just thought for, it's a guy who's had, I banged this drum all of last week, 63 starts in college. Now it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to come up to the NFL and be all that. We've seen a quarterback playing for the other team in this game who struggled mightily coming in, despite having a lot of starts in college himself in JJ McCarthy.

29:24But he just looked very assured. He looked very ready. Yes, they weren't able to quite put it together. They had a key drop from Jerry Judy early in the game, his fifth of the season. They kept in key moments, not finding the playmakers. but they ran the ball well with Quidjon Junkins. He made right decisions. The Cleveland Browns were in this game and had a lead late on, and I was more impressed with them offensively than I expected to be. Yeah, I thought Gabriel looked comfortable with the speed of the league, and that's kind of the first thing you're looking for. For a 94th overall pick to step into a game in Week 5 on the road internationally against Brian Flores, I don't know what more you could expect.

29:58Don't turn the ball over. Don't make too many ridiculous-looking throws, and he didn't do that. he played within the rhythm of the system he extended plays a couple of times I thought he had really good pocket feel when things were caving in he did not just fold up there was only one instance where he really got jittery in there and made an off target throw for the most part he was stepping up and kind of slippery in the pocket climbing through finding open receivers and we only really saw one flash of what are the limitations which was the Hail Mary attempt where he loops it so high up in the air that when they come back the second time for a second chance of the Hail Mary they say let's get away from that we'll have to run across her we don't think he can drive it down the field.

30:35And that ends the game with a tackle inbounds. Can we give Olly Connolly a shout out? Please. Pre-game, he told us there was going to be a trick play early in this game. He said it was that kind of game, the way it was set up, two defensive teams, and then they come in, the Minnesota Vikings run the Wildcat, Cam Akers touchdown throw to the widest open Josh Oliver. He will ever be in his career. We spoke, again, we spoke to Josh Oliver after the game. Not the most vocal man I've ever spoke to in my life. But when I said to him, like, were you stunned to see there was nobody within about 20 yards of you when he caught that ball?

31:06He's like, yeah, I was really open. Like he was as open as could be. They bit on that as hard as they could. And it was nice to see a bit of creativity. It took a minute to be like, who is 31 on the Vikings?

31:17Will Gavin:It's Cam Akers elevated from the practice squad. Yeah. Part of a fun first quarter where they went back and forth. Doug Gabriel had a good, Dylan Gabriel rather, had a good first drive that ended with a touchdown to Fannin. One of the best moments I thought of the game was third quarter. The Vikings had taken the lead on a Jordan Mason run. And then the Browns respond quickly to a man who was really soaking up the love in London, David Njoku. The Vikings favoring the left hand side of their defensive line, showing pressure. Fanning moves, he is being marked by Metellus Ball over the middle, ball to David Njoku Touchdown, Cleveland Browns Over the middle, and the big man Who just leaped over someone On a previous play, now Gets into the end zone for Paydirt And the Cleveland Browns have a lead Here in North London Oh, David Njoku raises his arms To the Tottenham crowd, he is loving it He did it before the game as well With his shirt off, getting some Love from the Browns faithful Who made the trip that was stuck in my head because he did the same motion before the game uh david and joku came out to the crowd no shirt on knees on the ground and just asked for the love got the love did it during the game did it after the game there was actually one sequence where they were going in uh on the next drive in in the red zone and he wasn't even supposed to be on the field for the play and the coaches had to be like uh david like stop it was riling up the crowd before the fourth quarter starts you have to come back off the field uh but he brought the energy in a season that that could use them it was amazing that just before that fourth course he literally was helmet off prancing up and down the line they were in the huddle discussing the play and he was just dancing around them geeing up the crowd before he just kind of waltzed off to the sideline and watch the play I a real character's day and even after the game obviously suffering a loss falling to one and four not where the Browns want to be but him and Jefferson were having some fun as well like David Njoku has had a not the greatest start of the season Harold Fanning's been been excellent coming in as the rookie and really been the star tight end in this team but he had his best day certainly of the season today and he was really feeling himself yeah the the throws to to Judy and Isaiah Bond were much less effective than to the tight end 12 targets for them for a combined 44 yards and Ollie kept noticing during the game that the wide receivers on the Browns were just often confused and not ready for the play at all which is something you can only see in person yeah they had some real operational issues there's a lot of palms up offense guys looking to each other there's a great Harold Fannin play where at the snap he has his palms up he isn't sure what the play is all of a sudden he reels the ball he realizes the ball has been snapped he just crushes someone on the end of the line of scrimmage and pops Quinton Judkins for a big run so there was a lot of operational stuff it felt like they couldn't hear what was coming from dylan gable the line of scrimmage whenever he's trying to check so maybe it's just a first start in the league you got to be maybe a little bit louder maybe the inflection's got to be there channel your andrew look your daniel jones and make sure the receivers can hear what's going on how about how about that your cam newton cadence that that's one of my all-time favorite cadences you mentioned juggins who goes for 110 yards in this game they have found one of the better starting running backs in the league at least in terms of just a pure runner patience power he has got everything it was a joy to watch him and before we take our break we should give a little love to justin jefferson who came over here became the all-time leading receiver in international game history if you add them all up this was our 40th game in london and for these two weeks in dublin and london uh he goes 17 catches 249 yards and uh would have had even more today if a great play down the field by carson wentz didn't get called back but he ends up making a trademark leaping catch in that game-winning drive yeah just absolutely unreal at the catch point uh time and time again going up with greg newsome going up against denzel ward he just absolutely bullied them like you just there's something special about seeing greatness when it's in person and you just every time i've been able to watch him and it's been three or four times over the last three or four years we've we've been able to have jefferson over they always sell the superstars coming right it's always a big part of these international games they're the ones that you slap on the poster they're the ones you make a big deal out of and jefferson just delivers time and time again that i mean i have to say that catch over the middle that got called back greg's call on that was unbelievable and it's just gonna just go out into the ether and never be heard again because it didn't count and i was devastated for it i have no recollection of whatever that call was but i'm gonna trust that that's true people could you know go back and check it out if they really wanted to on the talk sport feed uh yes jefferson everything you just said was said um with even a better source by harrison smith in the locker room i i talked to him for sky a little bit and he just said I've just never like been around a superstar like that who just delivers on being a superstar in every way like in every practice in every game he is just that guy and he said it is just amazing to have a front row seat to watch that every week uh and that's coming from a guy who has a chance to be a hall of famer like Justin Jefferson will be one day.

36:42Will Gavin:All right, we'll move on from this game. We will be back in just a little bit. And in our next block, we're going to include one of the most ghastly losses in the history of the NFL.

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39:49Will Gavin:Oh, Jaden Daniels. And yes, Bram Weinstein and London Fletcher getting it done on WBIG. Washington goes into Los Angeles, spots the Chargers 10 points, and then rips off 27 unanswered to get to 3-2. Chargers fall to 3-2. They've got all sorts of injuries, but let's start positive. the commanders coming in and they take command. Look, this game didn't start off as they were hoping or would have expected that the Chargers move out into a 10-0 lead. And it came from a brilliant 41-yard scramble from Justin Herbert on the opening drive where he made Bobby Wagner look very old and very stiff and very slow after a good blitz pickup from Amari and Hampton.

40:43Had the touchdown to Ladd McConkie followed by that field goal. And right at that point, Jaden Daniels was one of four in his first five throws. He had a couple of very wobbly looking scrambles where he had kind of eight or nine yards to gain, only went six or seven, went down a little early, didn't look quite sure on his feet. And I was watching it thinking, maybe was he ready to come back in? Maybe were this team ready to put it together? But then he hit Jalen Lane on that third and 16, down 10. And it just seemed to bring some life to him and bring some life to the offense. And then the Quentin Johnson catch and fumble from the Chargers who are driving again just seem to flip this game.

41:22Washington go on four unanswered scoring drives. Bill Krosky merit down 15 yards of space for that outside touchdown run with some really nice pulling action going on. And suddenly by halftime, Jaden Daniels goes from one and four to start off to six of 12, 122 in that first half. He has an absolute rope to Deebo Samuel for a first down. the Jalen Lane throw like he just it's something clicked midway through that second quarter and he just came to absolute life and it was wonderful to see and I think it's it starts with the running

41:51Will Gavin:game for this team Ollie just off of what you've seen this year and yeah Bill goes 14 for 111 yards and two touchdowns in this game I just am not surprised to see that their design run success rate not even counting the scrambles was well over 50 percent in this game and I thought that might be a matchup problem for the Chargers who last week kept letting the Giants run all over them too and the commanders seem like they have a nice base of their offense with their running game yeah it's a brutal matchup for the charges they they in their run fits and their run defense they don't move an awful lot if you move and cliff kingsbury is really really intelligent about making sure he can kind of move the numbers around to get good angles for everyone a lot of pullers and movers in this game a lot of runs to the perimeter that broke away for extra yardage so it was a felt like a bit of a schematic mismatch just by design you still have to go out and make the plays and the commanders did it i my main takeaway from the game was just the charges particularly on offense everything is so difficult for them and i know it was really fun in the opening few weeks of the season watching justin herbert put the cape on and all the early down throws and say you know kind of channeling it through the vision of they're evolving in a sense and putting the ball in justin herbert's hands but the degree of difficulty down to down is so high for them.

43:04Everything is so reliant on him making extraordinary throws, having to go and create with his legs, leading the team in rushing again. It just feels unsustainable, and I think we've seen it now for the two weeks in a row. Big offensive line issues for this team. Losing Joel as well. Mekhi Becton left the game in-game. Herbert sacked. There was that delayed bit that Jordan Maggi had. There was a Dorrance Armstrong forcing the hold, which pinned them back as they looked like they were going to drive. Big 29-yard completion to Keenan And Allen gets called back for an illegal formation when Trey Pipkins isn't lined up on the line of scrimmage.

43:36Like it just time and time again, they were killing themselves with these mistakes. And just every time you thought that Herbert had something going, you just find yourself rolling your eyes and falling back in your seat and thinking they've managed to do it again. And one thing they've lost is the ability to go to lad down the field. That was a real go to staple last season. Part of that is the offensive line. Part of that is they need him to be the kind of underneath security blanket. and so then just naturally Quinton Johnson slots into place as more of a downfield threat and Keenan Allen becomes the get out of jail free card.

44:07I can throw it kind of off the field to the sideline. Keenan will go get it for me. He does the vet stuff. So they've lost some of the McCongney explosiveness down the field, particularly in the middle of the field. He used to puncture right through the middle of coverage last season. You get these huge explosive plays and now so much of it is underneath and hoping he'll break three or four tackles and go make a play for you. It just feels like a real key, easy element of the offense has gone.

44:29Will Gavin:So Herbert sacked five times in this game. And when he was able to throw the ball under pressure, to your point of everything being so hard, he ends up with 24 yards on eight attempts. So their offensive line, I think Alt's injury kind of put it past the point where they can survive it all against a halfway decent defense. They're lucky to get Miami on the schedule next because I do feel like this section of the season without Alt is going to be very difficult. They have Austin Decalis starting at tackle right now. He had a horrible penalty in this game as well. They're just killing themselves time and time again.

45:07Will Gavin:Trey Pipkins had an illegal formation penalty that killed a 31-yard game. And then I thought the sequence where Ladd McConkie appeared to have a punt return touchdown, that's called back by a penalty, and then Washington goes on a scoring drive. Honestly, go and watch this play because it is the best play you'll see all season that doesn't count. Lad McConkie hurdles two different players in the same punt return, including the punter, only to have Marlow Wax called for running into Tressway in the back of the end zone. If you've not actually seen it, if you've only heard about it, if you've only seen it on the play-by-play or on the score sheet, it is so worth watching because it just showed you exactly what Oli talks about.

45:49Lad McConkie is so explosive, so brilliant with the ball in his hands, giving a little bit of space. And yeah, that was a devastating play.

45:56Will Gavin:And he only ends up with five catches for 39 yards, gets the early short touchdown, but no plays down the field. The game really ended with Herbert and the Chargers on the doorstep trying to cut the lead from 20 to 10 to 20 to 17. But he's a little too hot on his first down throw. They lose three yards from the one yard line with Kamani Vidal, and that sets up the Chargers on a third down play. They had first and goal at the one. Here's the snap to Herbert. Washington brings fourth throw. That was tipped. And picked off by Mike Sandristill at the one-yard line. What a pick by Sandristill. And a stop on the goal line.

46:38Mikey Sandristill just played Justin Herbert like a puppet. He ran this exactly. He knew exactly what route he was going to get. Chops in front of that play and intercepts this pass. Mikey on the spot is what we're going to call it. That's the energy we need out of you, Ollie. I thought that was harsh from London Fletcher, by the way, because clearly Johnny Newton tips the ball of a rider scrimmage, and that's why Mike Samuels is able to get into it. It's tough, it's live, it's live. But it was a case of, there was the drive just before that, where they got to the fourth and two, and then he just pinged the ball off Tyler Conkin's face mask when it could have been a completion into Washington Territory.

47:14And then that was a really great drive that just died in the red zone, and just, I think, you know, we can't really do better than Oli did earlier. just everything was tough for them in that from quarter two onwards basically yeah and i wouldn't say this is like a rejuvenation of the commander's defense i still think they got some pretty severe

47:32Will Gavin:structural flaws okay but they've been better this year and maybe better is average but seeing what they've done so far this season don't you think they've been kind of up and down in a way that there's more ups maybe than before i think they have some pretty serious issues when they're in man coverage they have two sinkholes on the field and wagner who i love but in space is a problem Marshawn Lattimore is an absolute disaster at this stage of his career. And in zone, they've had more busts than any team in the league this season leading to explosive plays. So they're still in this kind of push-pull tension.

48:01But they are vicious. They fly to the ball. I do think they'll create a bunch of turnovers down the stretch.

48:06Will Gavin:I think they're better. I think the Washington Commanders are just putting together a squad where I don't know what they're going to be like exactly. But I have a little, even though I know they made the NFC Championship game a year ago, I think they have a chance just off what we've seen to be better because I think they're not playing at their very best on offense. I have serious doubts about their mobility on the defensive side of the ball. And Bobby Wagner, obviously, as we've talked about a few times, is the kind of statesman, the elder statesman of that. Just the last couple of things to mention in this game.

48:38Amarion Hampton left the locker room with a boot on his left foot after going out of the game late on. And we wait for an update on that injury, but that could be a tough one for them. And just to mention the final drive, because it kind of gets forgotten about because the game was almost killed off by the inception. But they go 13 plays, 99 yards, eat six and a half minutes off the clock. They're two big scramble plays for a combined 20 yards from Jaden Daniels. They kept bringing in Trent Scott as a sixth lineman on that drive as well, went heavy up front. And they just ground the charges down.

49:10And as much as I'm kind of talking out both sides of my mouth here by saying I am concerned about the defensive side of the ball, that for me was their best driver the whole game because it just showed winning in a different way winning with that run game that you talked about and just burying the Chargers when they had the

49:26Will Gavin:chance they're winning games without Terry McLaurin with Debo Samuel as the centerpiece receiver and he goes eight for 96 today one big play from Luke McCaffrey every week which is is better than no they were getting last year and making it work whether it's Mariota or Jaden Daniels. I just give them some credit for managing what could have been a pretty difficult start to the season. They're at 3-2. So are the Chargers. The Indianapolis Colts, they're even better. Out of the gun goes Jones. Sweeping left. Taylor cuts back at the 5 into the end zone. He dances in again. Three of them today. Three touchdowns for Jonathan Taylor.

50:06The confetti flies. The horn sounds. And Lucas Oil Stadium is full of jubilation. The Colts now lead 38-3. Three touchdowns today for Jonathan Taylor.

50:20Will Gavin:Oh, and you know that Shane Steichen had an eye on the scoreboard. He wanted the 40-burger, so he went for the two-point conversion. The Indianapolis Colts get to 4-1. They win 40-6 over the Las Vegas Raiders. That was Matt Taylor on WFNI. eye. He's becoming a bigger part of this season, Ali, at least on our show, because the Colts are box office every week. And I thought this was an interesting little checkpoint for their team, a team that they should beat pretty easily at home. And they do it with style. Yeah. And we talked about for Justin Herbert, everything feels difficult for the Colts and offense.

51:02Everything just feels like an easy button over and over again. The first drive, they punt on the first drive of the game. They punt on the last drive of the game. every series in between they score a touchdown and it feels like easy work. And in this game, Greg, you mentioned going for two there to put the 40 burger up. They lost their kicker. They were forced into, you've got it. There's no field goals on the table. Their punter wasn't able to kick them. He couldn't even kick the kickoff. They got a flag for the first kickoff he had to take. So they had to go for two on every play. They were never in field goal range to be able to actually kick the field goal.

51:33It just felt so effortless for them driving up and down the field. You mentioned them waxing a team. This is what they just do now is they are playing all these poor teams and crushing them.

51:44Will Gavin:And the Raiders fall to one and four. And it just raises a larger point, which now is as good a time as any. I was counting it. We have 10 teams, I believe, at one win or less. Jets have not won a game. That does not include the Carolina Panthers, you know, who feel a little bit like a dead team. And I don't think every one in four team is dead. I believe it's eight teams that are at one in four and then another couple at two and three that are looking like a struggle. But I don't like that for the show, Ali. That's what I think about first, that it does feel like there's a large group of teams already that if you're not crossing them out, like you're getting pretty close and geno smith and the raiders have now had three games this year where they just have not looked like they're in the class of the other team on the field yeah and this one i think is particularly painful because the colts have been a sensation a surprise sensation really to open the season we at least thought over the course of the season the raiders offense would be frisky it would keep them in games they would be able to put up points and i know they didn't have michael mayer and they didn't have brock bowers in this game but again and everything felt like hard work for him.

53:01They cannot protect Geno. Geno is making some really sloppy kind of I give up decisions. I'm just going to throw it into space because what else am I going to try and do with this thing? Another two picks in this game. Another one to Leatu Latu. Luana Rumo still cooking out there for the Colts defense. The second interception is just a shallow throw into double coverage, which is truly like a I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I don't really know what's going on here. I'm just going to throw the ball and hope for the best. And that's just not the Geno that we've seen. Look, no Brock Bowers and no Michael Mayers.

53:30to kind of caveat that slightly. But Oli and I did sit and have a conversation in the TalkSport green room, Greg, and we wondered if an intervention was required. Because we're both Gino Smith fans. We both love Gino. But is there a conversation about whether this is working? No, I think for you, Greg, do we need to start talking about Gino being potentially taken off the field for the Las Vegas Raiders?

53:55Will Gavin:I mean, if he continues to have games like this, and that's two in a row, essentially. And look, the rest of the game, you can tell me more, like they move the ball, but it seems like everything's tough for them. Yeah, I think if you throw huge groaning, what is he thinking, interceptions week after week, that's three out of his five games that have been disasters. I would say the three worst starts he's had since he took over in Seattle, then yeah, that's going to become a conversation. We were in a very bizarre situation where I think everyone in this room sat and went, what are Seattle doing?

54:33Why are they getting rid of him? Why are they moving Sam Darnold? The Seattle offense looks like one of the best in the NFL, and unfortunately it's not working at the Raiders. So I think there's a lot of humble pie being eaten across the media landscape at the moment. And I think this, as I said, will be the most disappointing one of them all. They open this game. It's a pretty surgical drive. It's a really well-designed opening game script, given that they don't have the two tight ends. they start splitting Ashton Gentia, it creates some formational mismatch for the Colts, they can spring a big shot play to Gentia, they start working some creative stuff off that, then they just give up a huge sack in the red zone, the forced kicker field goal, and from there it was really discombobulated, they are such a up and down offense series to series, it looked to begin with like we were going to get maybe the offense from the New England day, but for the most part, they are always in third and long, always, and Gino, you mentioned if he's giving up the bad turnovers, these are not down the field rockets 50 50 he gets picked off or misread a rotation and he shouldn't have made the throw these are pretty lazy decision making things i got the bag i got paid i go from primary to second to check down and i'll just let it go because i'm gonna let it go and we stink anyway that's how it feels at the same time i'm not buying the kenny pickett is the answer no to any question that i would want to ask no i think the marriage with him and chip Kelly which on paper was kind of like my football nerd dream I've been lobbying for Chip to get back in the league with a new style of offense he was running at UCLA then Ohio State for years and years you see it come back to league with Gino and it just feels like a complete misfit Aiden O 'Connell

56:06Will Gavin:is on this roster he broke his wrist and uh won't be back for another month I do not think they're going to want to look at Kenny Pickett but it's it's dark early that we're even talking about that and you talked about like working easy or hard. That first drive you mentioned, it took the Raiders 16 plays in almost 10 minutes to, you know, kick a field goal. And then maybe the saddest drive of the entire week, the Raiders ended this game with a 13 play, six minute, 45 second drive that I believe ended on the 23 yard line. They did not reach the red zone, but they ran out the clock on themselves because they could not advance the ball any faster before we leave.

56:51Will Gavin:Cause we spent too much time on the Raiders and we should be talking about the team that is leading the AFC South at four and one. Ali, I'm just curious, like from this game and maybe zooming out a little bit, what this game tells us about the Colts. Like what, what's been the most. What's the intriguing part for you? I think the intriguing part to me is what they're doing defensively. You know, I am a huge fan, probably the founder member of the Luanarumo fan club. And I actually thought I wrote a big piece about Luan Friday that under the hood, the figures were not that pretty for the Luassons.

57:23And he was kind of getting some credit for how good the offense has been. And I think that was still kind of true in this game. But what he does do every single week is there's three or four things no one else is trying and it always creates carnage. And he's always been the best game plan coach in the league. I think that's why he's so effective in the postseason. And when you try and outthink all the great ones throughout a regular season, unless you have overwhelming talent, you can become unstuck. But every week he's getting to some stuff that is just flummoxing even the best guys in the league.

57:53And so if they can sneak into the postseason and they get what I believe is, other than Spaggs, the best single game. My life is on the line. Give me a DC to drop a game plan against a great one. I think it's Lou. Now, I would maybe park him in the side house for the regular season, but he's navigating through it right now. We get another Lear 2-Lar 2 pick dropping into coverage, another drop 8 in the red zone, a really, really effective game plan. And so I think that defensively, they will not be efficient. They will have one game, because it's all over the film, where they get cracked for 40 themselves, because they're giving up a lot of chances.

58:28Quarterbacks aren't taking advantage. But if they can just eke through to the postseason, I believe in Lou.

58:33Will Gavin:Forget about Eakin and Sneakin, and they're 4-1. They're going for the number one seed. The AFC South is a little more interesting than we expected. We'll hear from the Jaguars on Monday night. And, yeah, I started this recap talking about the 1-4 teams. There's eight 1-4 teams. It's a tough place to be. Ravens, obviously, the best among them. We'll get to them in a little bit. And then there's— I'm not so sure anymore. Well, at least long-term, like hoping for a rebound. And then we have a Panthers 2-3 team and a Jake Browning 2-3 team. So it just feels like it's almost like a third of the league is in a very difficult situation.

59:14Will Gavin:That could describe another 2-3 team. Let's go to Arizona. Here we go. Cox snaps it back. Sly lets it fly. Boozey! Hey, Nashville! That sounds like a winner. The Tennessee Titans, 22. The Arizona Cardinals, 21. I cannot believe the Arizona Cardinals lost this game. Yes, that's Taylor Zarzor for the first time this season. and Dave McGinnis on WGFX. The Titans win 22-21. Let us count the ways in which the Cardinals blew this game, shall we? I think it has to start with the Amari DiMarcato fumble while going in for a touchdown in the fourth quarter. Would have been about 72 yards, I believe. would have given the Cardinals a 28-6 lead.

1:00:24Will Gavin:And what happened after that was an all-time loss. I don't want to overreact, but a season-changing loss, potentially like a coaching regime-changing loss because the Cardinals have had some rickety moments this season. And how they respond to this will be fascinating. Yeah, you say that, I think, for Brian Kellett and two, right? It's like this is a defining win for the Titans, but completely gagged away from the Cardinals. It's the most inexplicable loss of this season. It's probably going to be the most inexplicable loss for many, many seasons. The different ways they're able to give this game away.

1:01:03I don't even know what it's going to do. The fumble, interception, drop, kicked around, touchdown,

1:01:09Will Gavin:whatever that chaos was. Absolute chaos. Let's listen to that. So the comeback really starts with Di Mercado dropping that ball. Doing a Jason Jackson. It would have been 28 to 6. It's insane that this continues to happen. It's actually happening more. It is contagious. And they were trying to give Legereus Snead, I believe it was, some credit on the broadcast for running after him. But DiMarcado just dropped the ball. At that point in the game, the Titans offense had done absolutely nothing. Then again, the Cardinals offense didn't score on their last eight drives. uh kyler murray took a third down snap off the helmet that he wasn't ready for and then left the game with an injury after that play i was wondering did the ball hitting him in the helmet injure him no it was a foot injury and he returned after missing a couple plays but that crazy play that you mentioned came on cam ward driving down nine with under five minutes left in the game receivers to each side of the pattern cam takes a shotgun snap surveys he's in trouble he's trying to get out of there he breaks the tackle throws and it's intercepted intercepted down at the five now the ball's being fumbled around the the titan jump on it in the end zone tyler lockett jumped on it in the end zone that's a touchdown that is a titan's touchdown Cam Ward through an interception then it was fumbled it was recovered by Lockett in the end zone as a guy who's done play by play today what a difficult play to call and he got away with it because I don't know how I would have done that like it was so bizarre so wild it was kicked this way then that ended up in the end zone fallen upon by a Titan just yeah it's one of those you kind of have to see it's very difficult to describe so fair play to them for managing to get through it well the the cardinals after they intercepted it and you feel for taylor demerson there because there were many moments in this game where if he just falls down there and doesn't fumble the game is over just like the di mercato loss but then what is going to kill them watching it in film review is three different cardinals like jump at the ball at the same time and it bounces around and it bounces off one of their legs and then Tyler Lockett who had a drop earlier in this game finally makes a play for the Tennessee Titans and the Titans do deserve credit for having got that good fortune the final drive from Cam Ward was absolute nails and I I would just believe if I was a Titans fan I would go absolutely gaga for Cam Ward I think the operation around him the coaching staff everyone will probably be gone by the end of the season they'll get found out they they were pretty incompetent through much of this game even in situational stuff as they tried to mount the comeback i thought callahan called it pretty poorly but ward's ability to play when it's no huddle when he can see the defense when he can take in all the information he operates supremely quickly and we all kind of see the the crazy throws where he's running around and sometimes he makes mistakes doing that stuff when he can just play in rhythm in structure he is light years ahead of where i ever thought he would be at this stage in his development that last drive you mentioned was awesome and the fourth quarter in general uh was awesome out of cam ward he he suddenly got protected better i mean this game had a nine drive sequence for the titans which totaled three points and was well under a hundred yards the only points that they got were because they recovered the ball uh on or they had a long kick return rather by chamere dike and they had a one yard drive that ends up with a field goal but then suddenly he throws one of the best throws of the week over the middle to calvin ridley and then on the very next snap has a dime down the sideline and gunner helm makes a really good play for him he had some nice throws uh to a io manor into Okonkwo and he was incredible throughout the fourth quarter of that game so he did throw that interception and got lucky but their best three drives by far in the game were the last three drives and he gets the ball back with a minute and 53 and this is the most unforgivable part to me of this entire drive of the entire collapse Jonathan Gannon with a lead just you know just by under a field goal decides to run it three straight times he runs it on first and 10 he runs it on second nine and then he does not trust kyler murray anymore and he just runs it on third and eight and it's not like he was doing that to give the titans 30 seconds left or 25 seconds left the titans had a minute and 53 only needing a field goal and it was frankly bizarre game management I thought by Jonathan Gannon, when you have a veteran quarterback, it's insane.

1:06:19It's funny because you're saying about how this is the most inexplicable loss of the season. And at one point, you know, on the old what the NFL equivalent of win viz for your cricket fans out there, they only had a 1.8 percent chance of winning this game. They were listed at 30 to 1 on various betting websites to win this game. It's not actually the least likely win of the season. The Bills Ravens from week one, they were down at sort of 0.8 at one point. but it was Josh Allen and it was everything that comes with the Bills and it's a very good football team you're facing and it's a banged up Ravens defense.

1:06:48This is the Tennessee Titans you're going against who are as undermanned as any team in the NFL in theory who have had game management issues of their own. You've got an offense that you've been building over the last three years that you should be trusting that have had some big plays in this game. Marvin Harrison had that big completion down to the one yard line which was probably his best play maybe of his career up until this point certainly of this season. I just couldn't understand the Cardinals not, they needed just one first down. One first down, ice that game, and they couldn't go and get it, but didn't even really try to go and get it.

1:07:19Yeah, and I'm with you, Greg. It's really telling. When it's not crunching time, and you've got a franchise quarterback paid that kind of money to not put the ball in his hands tells us everything. I think we saw it in the London game too with Dylan Gable, but that's a rookie right way. If you're going to go with the three-run sequence or two-run then pass, you want to start the pass some kind of boot action on the first down to figure out where you are right and to not have kyler murray unless there's something with the foot and the foot is worse than we know where they couldn't roll him out or do something with him but he was in the lineup and there's no reason why he couldn't get in the gun on one of those plays and give him a chance to spray the ball around and go and win the game for you and that fumble that i mentioned

1:08:00Will Gavin:where it bounces off kyler's face because he's not ready he thinks the play is going to be called dead because part of his line starts moving before the snap then they snap it anyways yeah they were trying to adjust the protection to his right they did a hand signal because Kyler again not trusted doesn't get to handle his protection so we're seeing an awful lot of build-up for a franchise quarterback here they tried to adjust the protection to slide to his right as they put the signal for the adjustment they snapped the ball into his face it's just uh un unbelievable um that was actually to correct myself at the beginning of the third quarter and then the demarcata in a game by the way the cardinals knew the titans snap count i cannot tell you how poorly coach football team this titans offense is it is an embarrassment to football they have a silent snap count they call it the same twice in a row the cardinals jump the snap count they call it a third time in a row the exact same sequencing on a silent snap count they leave baron browning unblocked off the edge to crush Cam Ward.

1:09:01That's what you're going up against when you have that kind of inexplicable collapse.

1:09:05Will Gavin:And that play you mentioned, like they had six blockers in for four pass rushers and he wasn't blocked whatsoever. Like Callahan was going out on the field in this game and like firing everyone up and saying like, like after that Tyler Lockett touchdown, he acted like they just won the Super Bowl on the luckiest play ever. Meanwhile, he fails the down nine test where, you know, the analytics will say that you go for two. so that way you know if you need the two earlier than not he decides not to and what does Joey Sly his kicker do he misses the extra point anyways and it doesn't matter some days are just your days and uh look it is great to see a team like the Titans get off this night and I gotta say I don't think the Cardinals deserve to be three and two but man this one is gonna sting for a while that's what all the Bengals games have been like lately let's go to Cincinnati They go Wildcat.

1:10:00David Montgomery takes the direct snap. He's going to throw it to the end zone. Touchdown Detroit Lions. Brock Wright. Who? Brock Wright. David Montgomery back in his hometown of Cincinnati with a touchdown pass.

1:10:16Will Gavin:Oh, that's Dan Miller and Lomas Brown with the hoop on WXYT. They brought out the good stuff for David Montgomery near the goal line. He throws a touchdown pass, later adds one on the ground, returning home to Cincinnati. Lions win 37 to 24 in a game that flatters Jake Browning in terms of the final score. I watched this game closely and for so long, it was one of the worst quarterback performances of the season. Eventually, Jake Browning gets it going and really helps out the fantasy owners for T. Higgins and Jamar Chase. But ultimately, the Lions were unbothered in this game. And I was thinking about, you know, what you said, Ali, on our podcast that went up Saturday about the biggest surprises of the season.

1:11:11Will Gavin:And I know it was Jake Browning for most of this game. But watching the Lions just play ferociously on that side of the ball and really control the game in a game that the offense for the second straight week really didn't do that much for most of it. It's just showing that this team is extraordinarily balanced right now. Yeah, and I think that defensively, there may be down the line when we get to playoff time, some concerns about this wholesale shift in philosophy where they're really pressure based now. They're trying to be more creative. I think a lot of it is manufacturing production. Once you get against a really good team, that could be an issue.

1:11:48But they're all over the Bengals today. You know, Browning is having a bad day when three separate times there are throws and the announcers saying that must have been tipped at the line of scrimmage. And they go to the replay and there is no tip inside.

1:11:59Will Gavin:We actually have one of those plays. I present to you our latest worst throw of the year nominee.

1:12:29That was like a pop fly into his hands. Yeah, I almost fair catch that bad boy. I mean, it's like, you know, that thing was just hanging in the air, tantalizingly for him. And he did not miss out on the opportunity to make a play.

1:12:44Will Gavin:Oh, great job there by Dan Hoard and Dave Lapham on WCKY. Yeah, that wrapped up what I thought was one of the roughest three-play sequences I've ever seen where Browning took a safety or what appeared to be a safety where he held the ball too long, but he got bailed out by a penalty, then rolled to his right, I believe, and tried to make a throw that like peak Patrick Mahomes probably shouldn't attempt. That should have been intercepted. And then that was followed up by the Kirby Joseph interception. ultimately I do like having the team's will that you can just trust on a week-to-week basis we know who these Lions are and they're four and one and on the defensive side of the ball Aidan Hutchinson had an absolutely sensational game today eight pressures which is just one fewer than the entire Bengals pass rush put together I just thought that it could have there was only one of his pressures was converted into a sack the one in which he stripped Jake Browning to blow up that that flea flicker outside of that like i think he probably could have had three or four sacks today based on the way that he was playing and look there i thought amik robinson had a good game kirby joseph as you mentioned already alex anzalone getting an interception as well through three quarters they looked absolutely lost the cincinnati bengals and yes they put it together late with the garbage time stuff but jake browning two of nine for 40 yards and three interceptions on downfield passes in the first three quarters and then suddenly went four of for 129, 122 yards in the fourth quarter.

1:14:23It kind of feels like the Lions took their foot off the gas a little bit. They did, but Kelvin Shepard still just trying stuff. And I just love this about the Lions. They are completely fearless. They show everything every week. It doesn't matter the opponent. It doesn't matter if you think it's garbage time. They're bringing all their creative goods and wares. They're telling you we've got more in the bag. We're not saving anything for the good people. We're going to throw everything we've got at you. But didn't you think that was a little bit of an issue with the David Montgomery? I know it was in his hometown and everything else, but sometimes save the good stuff for the good teams you're facing.

1:14:54Don't throw it away against the Bengals. Sometimes the good stuff is to have a team have it in their mind that you might do something like that. Then you can just slam the ball down that throat with David Montgomery when you face the good teams.

1:15:05Will Gavin:And there was a blown coverage in that fourth quarter garbage time, but there was also one of the best throws and catches of the year by Jake Browning and Jamar Chase. Like he kept going for those insane throws and he hit on one, which he showed a couple of years ago that he can do. Maybe they'll come out of this with a little more confidence offensively. I don't know if there's much to draw from it. There are two and three. And you mentioned, yeah, David Montgomery returning home to Cincinnati. And they told the story on the broadcast of his sister who was paralyzed and was able to watch the game for the first time because it was near home at the Cincinnati.

1:15:46Will Gavin:So look, that was a good story. And I feel better at least for the crowd there because I knew Nick Wesseling's lovely wife, Stephanie, was there and she had texted him during the game that she would rather be home doing laundry than watching this Bengals team. Let's take a quick break and we will be back in just a minute.

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1:18:16Find out your welcome offer after you apply, which could be as high as 175 ,000 points. Learn more and find out your offer at americanexpress.com slash explore dash platinum. Terms apply. First down at side to 27. Blake Fisher checks in. The extra O-lineman. CJ hands off to Chubb. Threw a seam right side. Has the 20. The 15. 10. 5. Chubb. Rock and roll. Touchdown Houston. Nick Chubb to the house.

1:18:43Will Gavin:Oh, the Baltimore Ravens defense is the cure that really heals all offensive struggles. Houston goes into Baltimore and wins 44 to 10. That was Nick Chubb. that was Mark Vandermeer on KILT it was tough to pick a highlight Ali because the Texans had a lot of them in this game yeah this was a boat race the Ravens just couldn't get any pressure on CJ Stroud when you take all the players out the Ravens lineup all the different injuries and the back end you end up with nothing creative up front nothing creative on the back end and CJ Stroud essentially unbothered in the pocket he was pressured on 30 % of his dropbacks which for CJ Stroud feels like zero that's actually a pretty decent pressure in some other games with CJ Stroud it's nothing and he completed 17 of 20 passes for 179 yards and all four of the touchdown throws when he wasn't pressured so when he gets some time he can cook people up yeah uh a shot to Nico Collins Christian Kirk ends up leading the team in receiving four catches for 64 yards he had CJ Stroud did a 68 % success rate which is extremely high and it just makes the Ravens defense right now feel like maybe the easiest matchup in the league it was almost a childlike game plan from the Texans they've kind of drastically changed their offense the past two weeks almost every first down was we are throwing fast to the flat to our right and then the Ravens would kind of sell everyone out there on second or third down and Stroud would just rip into the middle of the field.

1:20:18And it was just that on repeat over and over again until you got towards the goal line. There was a bit more creativity and some play fakes involved. The Ravens just, they got no talent. They have no discipline. They can barely get lined up at this point. And they got a bunch of backups. If you look at their pressure figures, the average distance a pass rusher has to a quarterback in the NFL is 4.6 yards. That's the classic average distance. Two of their starting four pass rushers were 6.7 yards away from CJ Stroud on average. they may as well be in a different game. It's an uncommon level of not being touched for CJ Stroud, and he just shredded them.

1:20:54You're running away from him at that point. Essentially, yes. Is Zach Orr going to be fired this week? He probably should be. They have a real lack of internal guys to hand it to. I think that could be a sneaky in-house demotion that we don't find out about until the Jay Glazer report right before a game that he's been shuffled into something else. Pagano's taking on some new responsibilities. But they did this with him last year. It was the same type of mess to open last season. They moved Kyle Hamilton to fix it. They brought in Dean Pease to change their communication system. They've changed it back to the old one.

1:21:27It's a mess again. And now they're rolling in all these different players and these backups and just don't have the talent anymore.

1:21:32Will Gavin:And you say how they don't have any talent. And I know they've had a lot of injuries. But they do have, you know, Van Nooy was back for this game. They do have Owe out there. They have Travis Jones back for this game. I actually looked at the injury report and people thought, oh, this is a disaster. How many people? And I thought, well, this is actually good news. They got a couple of their players back and yet they are a sieve right now. Do you think based on the final quarter that the Texans put up against the Titans and then this game going into their bye that at least that can stabilize this organization?

1:22:08Will Gavin:They're at two and three now and figure some things out, maybe come out of the bye a little healthier. year yeah they still have a championship caliber defense they are so loaded at all three levels and that will keep them in so many games and they've over all the offense this was a two bag downhill power running offense without the ability to play with two bags and run the ball down people's throats now they're a little bit more spread they've got marks involved he's a really effective guy out of the backfield catching the ball so they just put you more in a natural run pass conflict everything feels like there's some more easy buttons in the offense than there was it felt like they were purposely making the game hard for themselves early in the season and And now there's just more open receives and targets facing two pretty disastrous units has helped.

1:22:47Will Gavin:Derek Henry, 15 runs for 33 yards in this game. It feels like that's been the story of his season. He's had one decent big game. Other than that, there's been a lot of that going on. He didn't have the one yard touchdown run. But I just think from a Texans perspective, CJ Stroud, that is going to have just lifted them. That is just going to have made such a difference to the way they're going to approach. because going to the Seahawks against that defense, I know they gave up a lot of points today, but one of the best scheme defenses in the NFL, one of the more talented defenses in the NFL. 49ers the week after, like these are not easy defenses necessarily to go up against.

1:23:22And I just think Stroud, he's not been happy in that offense. It hasn't been clicking. It's not been coming together. And really since his rookie season, we've not seen that confidence, that swagger, that belief that he is as good as we know he can be. And I just hope this is injected a bit more of that into him. because when CJ Straub's really good, he's really good, and I love watching him, and I want more of that. You could see something click in this game because in the first few weeks, even when there was no pressure, because it's been so relentless now for two seasons, he was feeling it anyway.

1:23:50He wasn't stemming into throws. He was scared. He was moving away from his spot really early. In this game, when there was pressure, we got to see more of the off-script CJ Straub moving to create because there is more of a rhythm and flow in the offense because he's going to sit back there and play point guard and distribute it around without getting his head cleaned off every third play. when there is pressure, when that finally arrives, he feels more comfortable moving around and creating because he's not just running for his life the entire time.

1:24:15Will Gavin:John Harbaugh did indicate after the game that he does not think making any staff changes is the answer. They have to go to work. They need to stick together. They need to find themselves. He talked about how this week was important. They have the Rams this week. We'll see if Lamar Jackson comes back for that game. Then they have their bye. it could be a situation where they're 1-5 entering the bye if they were going to make any changes that might be the time to make them another team that I hope isn't considering making changes that I was high on in the preseason very much like the Ravens different stratosphere but still the New York Jets let's go to the Meadowlands on the reverse now here's first down fake pitch going deep there's a shot for Pickens He got pushed.

1:25:06He caught the ball to the post. Touchdown to Pickens. It's been one-on-one all night. Sauce Gardner on Pickens. And they've stayed away from throwing the ball. And this time it's a little post from the left side. And Dak just said, I'm going to throw it down and let you make a play. And George Pickens did exactly that.

1:25:25Will Gavin:Oh, that was a great catch by George Pickens. And a call by Brad Sham on KRLD. The Cowboys go into MetLife Stadium and build a 30-3 lead. It was 30-6 entering the fourth quarter. The Jets add some cosmetic touchdowns late, but the Cowboys win 37-22. They are 2-2-1. And the Jets, spoiler alert, are the only team without a win in the NFL. How did they do it? You stole my opening line. They are coming to London winless. If you need an injection of energy at 20 to 3 in the morning, just think about Jets Broncos next weekend live at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium on TalkSport 2. Look, let's talk the Cowboys offense first before we get into the Jets, because as far as the Jets concerned, producer Will Varney, our producer here at TalkSport, who's been helping you guys out while you've been over, he's a Jets fan.

1:26:28And after he'd finished his shift, he came and sat with us in the green room and he said, I have notes. And he pulled out a pad of paper that had the scrawlings of a madman on it. And yet when he spoke, he made more sense than anyone else I've heard at any point during this entire process. So we will get into the Jets, but let's start with that Cowboys offense. 412 yards of total offense. Dak Prescott, four touchdowns, two 90-yard touchdown drives, just the second time since 2000 that they've managed that in a game. We heard that George Pickens unbelievable 43 yarder. And I think Brian Schottenheimer is a better play caller as a head coach than he ever was as an offensive coordinator.

1:27:09It's a significantly better run game. Javante Williams has a huge game today, including the 66 yarder, which set up the Jake Ferguson touchdown. I just, yes, the Jets defense haven't been good this year. And yes, there were turnovers. And yes, there was not a lot to be excited about on the other side of the ball. But Dak's thrown for 556 yards and eight touchdowns in the last two games. and this Cowboys offense are what we thought they could be going into the season and that's exciting. It is and this was just a really bad matchup for the Jets. Just in terms of styles, the way the Cowboys are playing football right now, all the heavy personnel, all the pulling and movement in the run game, running it down your throat and then attacking the seams.

1:27:50And what does Aaron Glenn do? He plays with four down, he plays an attack base front and then he sinks to cover two when he panics on the perimeter. this was an abysmal coaching performance and it's just so frustrating to watch bad football all over the place, doctrinaire coaches refusing to adjust to the team they're playing, Dak Prescott has been as good as any quarterback in the league so far this season, you are playing a ton of press man coverage as though you are still in Detroit and you are no longer in Detroit, you no longer have Aiden Hutchinson up front, you no longer have Branch and the guys in the back end to make things right and it's just frustrating to watch this Jets defense.

1:28:26It feels incompetent. Aaron Glenn, before this game, called last week the best week of practice since he's turned up in New York. He was seen with a boxing glove walking around practice this week, punching the ball out, trying to talk to them about ball security. And yet, Brees Hall has a horrible fumble in this game. He said after the game, the practice had been damn good. He doubled down on it after the game today. This is a Jets team who've become the first team in NFL history to start 0-5 and have zero takeaways on defense during that time. That's brutal. 13 missed tackles in the first half alone.

1:29:02Those 290-plus drives. The offensive woes, and Oli mentioned something earlier, they are sixth in first quarter success rate this season. They actually come out with some really good scripted stuff. They ran the ball well today.

1:29:14Will Gavin:They had a 50 % success rate. They've been running to find Brees Hall goes for 113. He did have that fumble, though. But after they settled for three on the opening drive of the game, Again, they don't score again until the third quarter. They're a brutal sacks left, right and center of Justin Fields. As you said, Brees Hall negated that ridiculously stop-start drive. It just time and time again, they shot themselves in the foot. And it is, they are a really tough watch at the moment. And it starts with the coaching. I want to hear you talk about Sauce Gardner because we had this segment the other night.

1:29:45Will Gavin:And it was going to be biggest surprises of the 2025 season. And we didn't get to everything. and you had Sauce Gardner's struggles as one of your surprises. Struggles, by the way, which sounds like it kept up today, at least on that Pickens play. Yeah, it just looks like a really poor schematic fit with him. You would think in your mind, Sauce Gardner, press coverage, heavy system, that's where he'd be at his best. But just the style and design of how they play it often leaves him exposed. He is not the greatest communicator on the fly corner in the league. He really wants to lock in and play one-on-one all over the field.

1:30:18the way Aaron Glenn does it, it's a bit more nuanced than that, there's a lot of wink wink communication on the fly it looks like press, you pass things off really quickly at the snap and if you just go through the big chunk plays he's given up this season, you will see there is a consistent delay at the top of the route where it's like he's confused, am I supposed to let this thing go or do I stick with the man you would think you would just say, hey Source maybe it's one of the best corners in the league when you're in the apex of your powers, we'll just lock you on, we'll do all the fancy stuff with everyone else and I do think that there's a chance here we could get a trade with Source during the season

1:30:47Will Gavin:That would be fascinating. Glenn did say after the game that he has confidence in Steve Wilkes and will let him do his job. You indicated to me, Ali, that you think this is very much Aaron Glenn's defense. It is not Steve Wilkes' defense. It's a Frankenstein monster of the two in a way that is completely incohesive. This is make a call one way or the other. You're asking Aaron Glenn to call half his defense, essentially when it's the true dropback game, and Aaron Glenn's defense the rest of the time. either let him call his defense and build his defense which is probably too late to reinstall and reimagine now or you take over responsibility and call your defense the way you see it the problem glenn's got is he is really struggling with just the management of the game so the idea of just being like we brought in you as the defensive guru which i you know i'm not so sure was the case necessarily in detroit anyway but they're asking to take that on when he's struggling already with some of the head coach responsibilities i think will be too much to ask and you know how you can tell who who's a good head coach or who's doing a good head coaching job is you start elevating players who hadn't been elevated to that level that we've seen before Javante Williams the way he's playing Ryan Flournoy goes six for 114 and then I thought uh it was interesting to hear Dak Prescott said he told his four replacement offensive linemen this week four of them uh Hey, remember how I once got into the starting lineup?

1:32:12Will Gavin:Like, you can get that job and you can stay there. I don't know if that's going to be the case for these Cowboys offensive linemen, but they are doing more with less. They're at 2-2-1. They're one of the most fun teams in the NFL, despite a pretty rough defense. Let's go to another team that entered Sunday without a win. first and 10 saints trail 14 to 6 5 27 ball at the 13 moving left to right under center play action stands in the middle throws it deep he's got a wide open machine i've exposed to play 30 20 15 see you later five no flags touchdown saints 87 yards Oh, that was Mike Haas on WWL.

1:33:06Will Gavin:Yes, the Saints fell down 14-3 to the Giants and end the game with 23 straight points. The Saints have a win in the 2025 season. And I am relieved, frankly, Will Gavin, that Spencer Rattler has finally won a game in which he was the starting quarterback because he deserved better, and he was the better quarterback today against Jackson Dart. 7-15 on third downs. He was pressured 54.8 % of the time. Did not take a single sack against a much vaunted Giants defensive line. I just, he, for me, maybe not been the biggest surprise because I think he came in and did some really good functional stuff previously.

1:33:50But as a guy who has come in and actually proven he could be a starter in this league, at least a long-term option for a team as a backup. but I've been really, really enjoying what he's been putting on film. And actually, this whole Saints team, there is a talent problem. Is there a coaching problem? I don't think so. But I honestly feel like they are not a team who look like they should be 1-4. This might be their only win of the year based on their talent. But I think there is a system there. I think there is a quarterback there. I think there's a lot to like about this Saints team, even though they have had their struggles.

1:34:26And you said it, it's a deserved win today. I enjoyed it.

1:34:29Will Gavin:They're always good for one win over the Falcons. They play the Panthers twice. That's one, too. I love the call by Kellen Moore, who's had some curious game management moments this year, including the first half of this game. But they had a fourth and five, up 12 with 4.12 to go. We're talking about Jonathan Ginnon not having any faith in Kyler Murray. Kellen Moore was like, just have a regular drop back, and we'll trust you, Spencer Rattler. And he completed the first down to burn another couple minutes off the clock before a second Blake Groupie miss of the day. They actually could have won this game by a little more than they did.

1:35:10Will Gavin:But ultimately, I was really impressed with the way they responded to the early deficit. Yeah, and I'm interested in what you thought of Jackson Dart in the second start. He missed a good opportunity. I felt on a flea flicker to Darius Slayton's a tick behind. and we talked about Dylan Gabriel in the show where I didn't feel like the pieces were ever moving too quickly for him. I felt in this game, in contrast to last week, with Dart, everything was so in a box and predefined and preset for him that he didn't really have to deal with any kind of complexity or moving pieces on the back end. I thought as Brandon Staley started moving stuff around this week, he looked pretty sped up.

1:35:43Will Gavin:The first two drives went perfectly, just like the way last week started for Jackson Dart. He was 6-for-6 in the first two drives. He didn't have to do too much. It was a lot of running, and they get up with the two early touchdowns. And then after that, it was just a lot of hope balls. I was thinking if they were just going to throw up prayers, because they were in man coverage quite a bit in this game, and he was just giving his receivers chances, but he was not accurate. And I was thinking if you're just going to throw moon balls the whole time, like Russell Wilson might as well be in there.

1:36:15Will Gavin:He's better at it. I think Dart finishes four for 12 on passes over 10 yards, and his numbers under pressure in this game were also really poor. A couple of interceptions, eight for 15 for 63 yards, whereas Rattler made a number of really good plays against pressure. I thought the interceptions were a little tough on him. One was on that fourth and sixth, which is essentially like an arm punt at that point, right? He just had nowhere to go with the ball, and Bo Collins just completely stops his route short on the second one. Like there's darts trying to throw with a little bit of anticipation, trying to throw to the man to the way the man's going to be.

1:36:51And he just stops up on his route. And so I didn't think he was as good a performance as the first one. Clearly, he's a guy with a lot of growth to do. But the interceptions make his stat line look a lot worse when neither of them were completely on.

1:37:05Will Gavin:His worst throws were incompletions where he just was inaccurate. You mentioned the Slayton one. There was a couple other deep ones where he really threw to the inside when he should have thrown to the outside. or he was late on the throw. He also fumbled on a play where he just dropped the ball out of nowhere. That was really bad. I'll give you that. That was tough. But I do like seeing Shahid in the big plays. And what the heck, let's throw in another big play. Let's get the fumble recovery touchdown, which put this game out of reach. Second and seven. Giants now moving towards the end zone.

1:37:41Field level suites. Snapped the dart. Inside hand off the Scadaboo. Ball's loose. Saints picked it up. That's Jordan Howden. 30, 40. Midfield. 40, 30. They're not going to catch him. See you later. Bye. Jordan Howden. Touchdown. Saints. Woo. I thought both those young safeties played really well today. And it's easy to look at that when they both have a fumble recovery. Sanker recovering the fumble from the DeMario Davis one and then Howden with the scoop and score. But I thought they both played well. Again, part of that thing is like, there's just those signs of life for the Saints.

1:38:20Will Gavin:Oh, my name is Jonas Sanker. To break out my Chris Berman-ism at 2.49 in the morning. He has been fantastic, made a lot of good tackles in this game. And that was Brian Brissi with the forced fumble on that play. DeMario Davis had a forced fumble earlier in the game and the broadcast noted that DeMario Davis played at the same senior bowl as Kellen Moore. He's still out there getting it done. Congrats, Spencer Rattler, the first quarterback drafted by the Saints to win a start since Danny Werfel in 1998. To Carolina we go. Panthers have to call a play before the two-minute warning. Young under center, Tremble to fullback in the offset eye.

1:39:09Here's the snap. Fake to Etienne. Bryce throws. Caught by Evans. Catapults into the end zone for a touchdown. It's another rookie. It's Mitchell Evans. And he gives Carolina the lead with 159 to go.

1:39:26Will Gavin:A member of the Miami Dolphins, Bradley Chubb, called this game a bizarre game. The Carolina Panthers win 27-24 despite losing the turnover battle by two despite trailing in the game. 17-0. I don't know, Will, if there is a single game all season in a recap show that I have less clue of what happened. Please tell me. Let me tell you. The Carolina Panthers had that 17-point first-half deficit. Darren Waller coming back another touchdown to this unbelievable comeback tour to put them in what seemed like a seeming insurmountable 17 point lead at that point. David Canales's job is being questioned left, right and centre.

1:40:10Somebody in this very room called for the benching of Bryce Young. Incorrect. False. You can delete social media posts later on after posting them initially. At one point, he gave up the ball twice in three offensive plays. The second drive of the game is sacked by Bradley Chubb. fumbles. That leads to the touchdown drive with Tua Hinton hitting Devon Achan on the 10-yarder. And on the second play of the ensuing drive, he was picked off by Minkovic Patrick while targeting Xavier Leggett. And he was having a really rough day at that point. But late in the second quarter, Bryce Young found Xavier Leggett for a seven-yard touchdown strike, cut that league down, and then it became the Rico Dowdle game.

1:40:52206 yards and a score. He was five yards off DeAngelo Williams' franchise record. He had a 53-yarder, a 43-yard run. Just absolutely, they outgamed Miami on the ground 237 yards to 19. They just absolutely pulled them apart after going down 17. And honestly, they might have called it a weird game, but I thought the Carolina Panthers really showed out at that point and deserved this one. They did. It was a really gutsy, gutsy win. Bryce Young had some really impressive throws in the second half. at that game and I did not call for him to be benched I inquired as to whether it would be a conversation as to whether Bryce should be benched he was playing awfully in the first half in the second half he played significantly better he played pretty well down the stretch that the final drive to end the first half though they still had a ton of operational issues no one can ever get lined up there Bryce didn't understand his own snap count there was Org Aniveros with false starts and the ball getting snapped early he tried to take a timeout when the team had no timeouts remaining the officials didn't catch it They thought it was a hand clap for a snap.

1:41:55And so they snapped the ball to him and he panicked and was able to try and figure it out. But in the second half, as Will mentioned, it was just all Rico Doudle. The interior of that Dolphins defensive line is so poor. They were getting knocked back off the ball. Poor Kenneth Grant, six, seven, eight yards down the field, consistently, consistently pushed off the ball. The Dolphins started trying to move him further and further down the line to hide him from being at the point of attack. And the Panthers would just ID him and say, we're doubling off him again. And we're going to double until he's off the field.

1:42:23Will Gavin:Rico Dowdle, the fantasy pickup of the year, if he was available in your league going into this game, it just feels like a pretty big organizational failure to be that soft on the ground. And then going up against a run defense, which is historically bad a year ago, it's just kind of normally mediocre to bad this year. and only be able, Will, to run the ball on design runs 13 times for 14 yards between Devon A. Chan and Ollie Gordon. Yeah, not pretty at all. And what I really liked about this Panthers performance, the Dolphins, what we can get to, but after they did go 20-17 up, Tua Tungavailoa hit Jalen Waddle on a 46-yard play.

1:43:07It was a lovely pass, great touchdown, and it put them back into the lead with only a few minutes remaining. And you heard on that call there for the Mitchell Evans winning touchdown, he said another rookie. Because prior to that, on this drive, Bryce Young had a fourth and five where he stepped up in the pocket and threw just a laser to Jimmy Horn on the sideline to pick up that fourth down. It was a really great game winning touchdown drive. Eight plays, 83 yards, the late round rookies pulling out for them. And so I just I wanted to give them the shout for coming back in this game twice, essentially.

1:43:40but from a Miami perspective, they had this game almost sewn up in the first half and couldn't just eke out. I just have to shout out another Bryce throw. The touchdown throw to Xavier Leggett is an extraordinary throw. It is a go-ball shot fade, supposed to be hung up to the outside back corner at the end zone, and Bryce says, forget that. I'm throwing it. I'm ripping it on a line to the inside shoulder of the corner. It peaks right at the last second. It almost has this, like, arcing curve in towards Xavier Leggett. is an all-time level fade ball throw, which is not traditionally what you would think of with Bryce Young.

1:44:15So you do get this really high variance with Bryce Young, where from snap to snap, he may forget to hold on to the football, even during the snap process. But when you give him targets down the field, he really is one of the most efficient downfield throws in the league.

1:44:28Will Gavin:It is strange because you don't think of him as being this next level talent, but if you just stack up his very best throws, it is among some of the best in the league. and maybe I'll take a look at that and we'll think about it for best throw of the year nominee and suddenly this Panthers team is 2-3. Undefeated at home as well. They have the Cowboys and Jets next. Just crazier things have happened. Those are games that they have a chance to win. I know you wanted to slam on the Dolphins before we get out of here. I don't want to just slam on the Dolphins. No, I'm not going to pick apart the Miami Dolphins.

1:45:03I think there's plenty of that been done over the recent weeks but one and four at this point, you talked about the eight one and four teams in the NFL. I'm struggling to think of one of those teams outside of the Titans. I've maybe been less impressed with the Dolphins. And this defense has just been a, like the front looks washed. All of those guys coming off injuries just look absolutely like they've got no twitch. They've got, when Bradley Chubb had that sack earlier, I thought, Oh, he's turning up. And then they barely got any pressure the rest of the game. It just, I can't buy into this defense in any way, shape or form.

1:45:36It's just a really strange situation with Mike McDaniel. I can't remember the last time we had a guy who was like a run game architect. That's his thing. Those are usually the rah-rah guys. And I know that's not who Mike McDaniel is. But it's a team that is just soft. They get no push up front inside. They go and they bring in all the big boys in the offseason. They draft Jonas Sav in the second round. Thinking we're going to get some interior push. They have Patrick Paul in the second season. And Aaron Brewer, to his credit, is fighting like crazy inside. in a season where most center players pretty poor.

1:46:08He's probably one of the three or four best individual centers in the league. And as he's crushing people up front, it's just bodies falling all around him. On the interior of the defensive line, they get pushed back off the ball. It is just wild to me that a guy who has made his name as the architect of run game football can feel such a soft team.

1:46:24Will Gavin:It's funny how narratives happen and attention. We'll see what happens with Miami in the next couple of weeks. But the fact that they got that win over the Jets in prime time kind of like took the heat, took the attention off. But it doesn't get much worse than losing a 17 point lead in Carolina. And so it's going to be an uncomfortable week. It's obviously an uncomfortable season for the Dolphins. My stay here at TalkSport, though, been very comfortable. It's been beautiful. Stop it. It's been lovely having you for the last 10 days or so in Dublin here in London. We've loved it. I feel bad for making you come into the office so much this week.

1:47:03Will Gavin:I guess that's not a normal thing, apparently. I didn't realize that. I don't enjoy how much they laughed on the other side of the glass to that one. Thank you, guys. No, I mean, my wife might not thank you, but I've had a wonderful time coming into the office, listening to you nerds talk about football when I wasn't involved, getting involved with it as well. It's been a great time. Now, it's the most fun thing that I get a chance to do is call these games with you in person, and hopefully we can meet back up at the Super Bowl. Only big games, international games. And Ollie, you were awesome on the call, awesome on the podcast.

1:47:41Will Gavin:I did want to thank everyone who's helped us here. Tom Skolze. Skolze. Skolze! Will Varney, really running the show behind the scenes. And then, of course, our guys, Eric Roberts and Chris Babona. behind the scenes and it takes a lot of people. Henry Hodgson is always very important to this entire operation. It was great to see him on the sideline today. You know who else I saw on the sideline today? Jason Sudeikis. And that might have been. As if this story's coming out to end the pod. Of course. We're throwing a Sunday night football in just a second. But of course it's coming out. Jason Sudeikis.

1:48:18Will Gavin:I'm just talking to Henry on the sideline and I didn't even know Jason Sudeikis there. And suddenly he comes into our sight line, stands right in front of me, looks me in the eye and says, nice to see you and shakes my hand and then, you know, walks back. And it may have been a mistaken identity situation. I don't really know. He's saying that now he came upstairs all big time. Oh, I was excited. This is permission right now. Jordan Rodrigue, Patrick Claybone, everyone else involved in the show. You can absolutely rip into him for that. He was so proud of himself. and yeah, he basically big-timed us for the rest of the game after that.

1:48:54That's none of that. He was the bell of the ball all day. Everyone was coming up to him asking for selfies. He's just swanning around London. In the press box, in the media room, people were coming up and asking him for selfies and telling him just how important the show was to him. It was lovely to hear, but also it's quite funny for a man as awkward as Greg Rosenthal to get told how wonderful he is left, right and centre. We think he's wonderful. At the end of the game, after you'd left, somebody asked for my play calling sheet, you know, with all the stats and everything on. and we're pretty sure they only asked for it because you'd been in the facility oh stop stop

1:49:23Will Gavin:that it really is awesome though uh to hear from the listeners more less so like the media members that's great that's great as well too but uh walking up to the game today i did the same thing as a week ago i got out of the tube stop at the seven sister stop so you get nice long walk and it really is crazy to see how much this game is embraced here and just the total enthusiasm for it. It makes it feel like a big game and they know how to throw it. Over under, who had more? Greg Selfies or me Pints of Guinness in Dublin? I think it generally would be about level terms. Okay, I think that's it.

1:50:04Will Gavin:Shout out to Jason today because maybe he watched Sky Sports or something last week. I'm thinking like, is he Maybe he's a talkable too, listener. Why couldn't that be the case, Greg? That could be the case. It's been an incredible week and a half over here in Dublin and then in London. We'll wrap it up here. But on the other side of the break, you're going to hear a wild and hopefully Patriots-heavy review of Bill's Patriots. And, yeah, I will be back on Monday night, which seems like startlingly soon, with Nick. We'll see you then.

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1:53:01Pop Sose is back, calling game winners. That felt good, boy, didn't it? Oh, it felt good. It looked good off the leg of Andy Boragallis, as that kick ultimately didn't determine the game. The Patriots needed to make two more plays after that. They made those plays, and it's over. Nick Shook, Patrick Claibon here. NFL Daily Sunday Night Football recap time. There's no more undefeated teams, so the NFL's bad, Nick. We've got to get rid of the league. We're real close, I think, to completing the parity circle after only five weeks, and we've still got the Monday Nighter to go. So, yeah, it's time.

1:53:32It's time. Shout out to the 72 Dolphins and the memory of Mercury Morris, who was always a big celebrator of this. And honestly, I'm glad that the conversation's over now because now we can focus on the rest of the season without worrying about who's got the big zero next to their team name. Yeah, we just worry about seating at home, away. The way things go in the playoffs, it's not college football. You don't have to run the table. Just got to be there in a right spot to make a play when your team gets an opportunity. And the Patriots took advantage of their opportunities here, Shook, in a game that was fumble night football to start off both teams kind of draining the energy from what was an electric Highmark Stadium with the special uniforms for the Bills.

1:54:15And then things really got going in the second half where both offenses kind of heated up for a bit. Yeah, that first half that you speak of that was so ugly was also ugly because penalties just ran rampant, especially for the Bills. They had eight at halftime and including a pass interference in the end zone that set up the Patriots with an opportunity to score. They didn't execute, but an opportunity to score. They ended up getting three points out of it. And it was very uncharacteristic of the Bills largely. And the Patriots, cred to them, got a little bit out of it. But what really happened in that second half, like you just alluded to, is the Patriots kind of waking up offensively, finding a bit of a groove.

1:54:49Drake May taking over. Mike Vrabel going back to Ramondre Stevenson after he'd fumbled twice, you know, earlier in the game and and and them finding like coming to understand that yes we belong here we are in this fight and we can actually do this like when we look at the patriots this is going to sound crazy right now but in the mike vrabel era when teams turn a corner there's always that moment that game this could very well be that game that we look back to the patriots and think that's when they all started to believe and when vrabel's imprint really started to you know take effect with this team and it's only week five which is super encouraging beyond the fact that they pull off the upset win over the Bills 23-20.

1:55:27Yeah, and we looked and got a balanced performance from the Patriots in the second half, not just the offense, especially Drake May working those balls down the sideline to Stefan Diggs, who had a huge revenge game against his old team. In fact, there was a ball to Hunter Henry in the second half where he goes up, kind of snatches it out of the sky in the very next play. Diggs spins out of a short route, gets a lot of run after the catch. So those two played great. But Marcus Jones in this Patriots defense, Milton Williams, guys continued to make plays in a way where we felt shook watching this Buffalo Bills defense.

1:56:05Hey, at some point this season, the Bills defense is going to need to make plays. The Patriots defense made the plays. The Bills defense couldn't down the stretch. Yeah, Marcus Jones with an incredible interception on a pass that looked very familiar to, if anybody watched Bill Saints last week, I understand if you didn't. But if you did, Josh Allen threw a similar pick, and he almost threw another one just like this, a late ball forced over the middle. It was not intercepted in that game. Marcus Jones is a premier athlete with incredible speed that we usually see in special teams. This time we see it on the defensive side of the ball, covers the ground, dives in front of the pass, makes it a phenomenal interception.

1:56:38That was a huge point in that game that stopped a Bills drive. That was, you know, I mean, because in the second half, except for that last possession, the Bills could move the ball with relative ease. That one was super important that it stopped them in their tracks, gave the Patriots the ball back, continued to give them both hope that they could get this done and also another opportunity to tack on to their lead, which they did. And so the Buffalo Bills get another opportunity. And it's kind of this situation where when you have this freak athlete at quarterback who's able to do so much, obviously, everybody wants to see Josh Allen hero ball.

1:57:11That's why we watch. But we saw the ways where it can kind of go off the rails, where if he's trying to ultimately do too much. And there was a couple of scary moments there on one drive where Josh lands on his throwing shoulder and then another scramble down towards the red zone, that slender area of High Mark Stadium, which is why across the parking lot, there's a new stadium going on. It looks like Josh was in danger of going in to the camera cart at one point, but they get an opportunity there. And again, this Patriots team are resilient as they are. They come right back down the field and get the game-winning field goal where we have a little bit of a different thought, and you brought it up, Shook, about this Patriots team, what their long-term aspirations can be.

1:57:59Level of concern? This is a weird division game at home for the Buffalo Bills. They played the previous rendition of the New England Patriots at Highmark Stadium in a three-point game late last season, so it's not like it's that far of a departure. But are you concerned for the Bills at this point? Well, yeah, because, you know, you can always point to, oh, you throw the records out the window in a rivalry. And Nike has legitimately taken over the idea of a rivalry with these rivalry uniforms, which, by the way, I think the Bills might want to light those on fire after the result tonight, although they do look very good.

1:58:30But I don't think that that's the case here. I think what we are seeing is an example of a Patriots team that's starting to build confidence under Mike Vrabel. They started that to really build that confidence with their victory last week, a walk in the park for them, a cruise. The first time Scott Zolak got to relax in the booth in ages. Then tonight he gets to enjoy a game-winning field goal, which he even mentioned. First time we've had that in a long time, right? These are the small steps towards sustained success. So I think that it was an example of that. It's also the example of a quarterback who is very talented, who Patriots fans have known for a while now.

1:59:00We have a guy here. Greg Rosenthal is known for a while. They got a guy there. All he cares about with the season is the development of Drake May. The national audience got to see what Drake May brings to the table, especially breaking the pocket tonight. Buffalo continuing to flush him out inexplicably slow because he was so good outside of the pocket. You see the Stefan Diggs revenge game. All of this comes together in one big giant pot of stew and cooks up something that's much more delicious than you thought. Now, you might not be able to get to actually eat that for a while, but you get a taste.

1:59:28Maybe you throw a little more salt and pepper in there. You're taste testing right now. The first taste is very good for the Patriots. But to answer your initial question, yes, I am concerned. Not because I'm concerned about the Bills overall. I have a take here. It's going to piss off a lot of Bills fans, and I'm fine with that. You can come after me. You can make fun of me for being bald. I don't care. I think that Buffalo has not been tested this year. And you can point to week one against Baltimore and then incredible comeback and everything else. But what have the Ravens done since then? Not a great litmus test for them.

1:59:56Otherwise, their schedule has been remarkably soft. Okay. The next three games they played, Jets, Dolphins, Saints. Probably two or three of the worst teams in the NFL as it currently stands. Jets still winless, last winless team in the NFL. And then you get the Patriots tonight. A game that you think, yeah, we're definitely going to win that one. I think that this is an example of the Bill's shortcomings. Shortcomings in personnel defensively. Shortcomings in how they approach their offense sometimes. Like James Cook did not touch the ball nearly enough tonight. Collinsworth is going mad about it in the first half of this game.

2:00:29He doesn't end up touching the ball very much. Even when the game is still within reach, some credit goes to the Patriots defense the way that they tried to bottle him up, but he didn't touch it nearly enough. And I think that when we look at Buffalo, we see Josh Allen, we think Super Bowl contender, you have the MVP on your team, which is valid. But I think there's more weaknesses and cracks in this team than people realize. And a game like this will force them to look back at themselves and say, what do we need to correct? You can't afford to have eight penalties in the first half against anybody.

2:00:54Divisional game, Patriots, doesn't matter. So I don't know if it necessarily concerns me. I think it more justifies what I thought about the Bills, which is like there's a little bit of fraudulence with this team right now. I don't see them as highly as other people do. And they will have a chance to reveal their true selves on the road in Atlanta coming up on October the 13th. And if you know, Stefan Diggs, the aging Stefan Diggs was a problem. Drake London and B. John Robinson should perform a slightly bit of a more athletic test in the secondary for the Buffalo Bills. And the New England Patriots have the Saints up next as they continue their run and trying to figure out how good both of these teams are.

2:01:36Fun matchups to look forward to. Of course, let's look back and celebrate the cast of, you know, about probably about 850 people facilitated the past couple of weeks for Greg Rosenthal over in both Ireland as well as in London. And thank you, Ali Kali and Will Gavin, who you heard at the start of this spectacular pod. And Shook, we're going to get Greg back. And that's something I'm excited to finally have Greg back home because we missed it. We really did. I'm very much looking forward to sharing a virtual screen with the international man of mystery himself, Greg Rosenthal. I will do what I can to lay hand upon Rosenthal on your behalf, Nick Shook.

2:02:18for everyone, again, involved in our operation. Thanks for joining us for this pod that has spanned oceans all the way to bring football from us to you. Happy week five. We've got one more game Monday night. Looking forward to it. For Nick Schuch, I'm Patrick Claiborne. See you next time.

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