40s and Free Agents: Midseason Rookie Report! Who is Surging and Who is Struggling?

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3:21Welcome to 40s and Free Agents. I am Greg Rosenthal. I am joined by the best draft analyst in the business, but that's not all he does. I saw him on Monday night walking out of the drunkest NFL game of the season, Chargers-Eagles. He's already been taping podcasts, moved the sticks today, and now he's here for the only job that really means anything to him, 40s and free agents, where we talk a little free agency and we talk some rookie class in this show. Every time that music hits, 40s and free agents, the hair on my arm stands up a little bit, Greg. It's hard to describe. I'll put it that way.

3:56You don't have to wait as long this time around. I guess we got one month to go. So if you've been listening, we're checking in during the season. On today's show, we're going to do some rookie class check-in. Who's been getting better throughout the course of the season? I might hit some guys who maybe have been disappointing in terms of the rookie class. And then when we reconvene, and you hear that song again, DJ, after the end of the regular season, we'll be going weekly through the draft, talking about the 2026 draft. I'm going to start building my big board. I'm going to get inspired by you, get my free agency board, get all the positions ready.

4:30But that's for next time. For this time, we're going to do one last look back at this rookie class, because one thing I love about it, it's a lot of times by this point in the season, you know, this week 15, like they look like different players than they were in week six. So we'll go through each position. Why don't we start at quarterback and we're just going to kind of pick out a guy that we think is getting better as the season goes on. I might throw out some guys a little disappointing. Why don't you get us going? Sure. I mean, I'm actually going to start with Tyler Shuck because nobody talks about him.

4:59It's the Saints. They're not really haven't been really a watchable product, but they've got a couple of wins as of late. And Tyler Shuck used the phrase like, who are the guys that are getting better? Who's ascending? And it's a I can't underscore it. It's it's just a massive development. If he is able to prove over these last few games and continue doing what he's doing, making some plays with his legs, showing the athleticism, still inconsistent. You know, some of the decision making, some of the accuracy can kind of ebb and flow a little bit. But you've got the size. You've got the athleticism.

5:29He's got a big arm. Sounds like by all accounts, you know, good, you know, good in the room, smart leadership. All the intangible stuff is there. And you're seeing the performance tick up. If that takes them out of the quarterback market, it really frees this team up. It solves a lot of issues for them. And they're going to have they'll have then eventually once they get the cap all lined up, they're going to have some money to be able to fortify a very cheap quarterback. And they're going to have draft capital to be able to help him instead of replace him. That would be a massive development for this program.

5:59Month is a long time in the NFL. but if he continues to play just how he's playing, I'd be stunned if they drafted a quarterback. Yeah, I'm with you. It's a huge development. I didn't expect it. I had my doubts coming into this season. His athleticism really shows up where he is making second reaction plays. They had some design runs for him last week where he is making that Bucs defense look slow. I think the decision-making has been good. That was the thing I was worried about. He was also the guy I was going to talk about in terms of improving. I thought he might struggle against pressure. It hasn't been perfect.

6:33He holds onto the ball and takes some sacks. But for the most part, I don't think any issues he had maybe trying to avoid hits and everything in college. I haven't really seen that so far as in the pros. I think he's a good. Yeah, he's played better than what the box scores indicate, too. You know, it's not going to wow you with where he is on the stat sheet, but he's played well. He's making some plays in that. All you want to see on young quarterbacks is that you're trending upward. And I'll give you one more name here quickly because I know everybody's going to be curious about it. Shudor Sanders has done a nice job since he's got the reins.

7:03There was a pretty large gap between the Browns rookie quarterbacks on my list. I'll go back through and pull it up if I went by position. Shudor was my second quarterback. He was my 20th overall player. And Dylan Gabriel was my ninth quarterback, my 148th overall player. So it's a pretty significant gap coming through the draft process, and we all need to rehash how we ended up where we ended up. But I think he's clearly shown that he's more likely to try and push the ball down the field. I know the chunk of salt, not the grain of salt, that people want to say the Raiders and the Titans, you know, put it in perspective here.

7:43But some good things that I've seen in those games, he's a very skilled thrower. When he has a little bit of room and a little bit of space, he just throws a real pretty catchable ball and he's pushing the ball down the field, which I like seeing. And there's still other stuff that continue to grow. We'll see as they come down the home stretch, they'll play some better quality of competition if he can keep it up. But this is along the same lines of Shuck. Why I wanted to mention Shadur is that if this takes them out of the quarterback business and all the draft capital that they accumulated from Jacksonville, and you look at just if they can duplicate 80%, 70 % of this next rookie class, what they've got out of this class, because I'm going to talk about a whole lot of Browns as we go through this episode.

8:25if they can have three quarters of the success in this next draft, we're going to be talking about them. Like we're talking about new England of two year process. And they could totally flip this thing. That would be bold for Shador to take them out of the quarterback market. Now the next four games will, will tell us a lot. I haven't gotten to that Titans Browns tape yet. I want, I'm going to, yeah, I had to get in the traffic early to get to SoFi for that game. I brought my son and everything, but he's made pro throws. and I think there's been a big difference between him and Gabriel. If I was going to put a faller since we last talked, I think Gabriel just kind of proved where he is.

9:02Yeah. And when he played, I just think he showed he could be a long-term backup for them. Not terrible out of a third-round pick, and it doesn't seem that crazy for Shadur to be a bridge type of quarterback to just give him another year to see when you think about how a lot of teams and evaluators like yourself, maybe it was just the evaluators, that saw him closer to the Tyler Shuck range. Okay, maybe that's a guy you give a chance on. He has looked like a pro so far. And yeah, that's a weird dynamic in that room if they went back to it for another year. But that's a story for another day. All right, let's go to the running back.

9:38I'll throw out mine first. How about last week? And again, you got to be careful coming off these Raiders games. It's like playing a lower division school in college or something. but RJ Harvey good receiver sure-handed and I think he showed in that game he can handle the inside runs overall I think he's been solid but he's just passing the eye test the last week or two where he's just running with a little more confidence maybe the game is slowing down for him and I'm seeing some of that juice that I remember had you had Brian Baldinger excited in the draft process where it's starting to pop on tape and he really looks like a guy that you can help build a running game around going into the playoffs.

10:19Yeah. I pulled back up my notes pre-draft a mix of Tariq Cohen and, and Freeman thinking about how good will player Freeman was runs low to the ground, burst breakaway speed. They use him in some wildcats, got great vision. You hit him on a wheel for a touchdown. He's just got the speed shows up. He's just a little small and pass pro. And he was someone I thought definitely you want to get him out as opposed to keep him in, which is fine. And Sean Payton is very comfortable doing that, getting him out and letting him make plays out in space. But a perfect player fit for how they use him and what they do there as well.

10:52Devontae Freeman, by the way, he's such an underrated player for those few years. He was really good. He was great. I love a guy who just runs hard every single snap, and he was that guy. Unfortunately, as a Patriots fan, I do remember his maybe most famous play as a pro was in pass protection against Dante Hightower, and it turned around the greatest comeback in NFL history. Kind of a big game. Can I give you mine? I'll give you my two guys because there are four names that I wrote down that I think that have trended up. And, you know, if I start with the obvious ones with Travion Henderson being on that list, then I had Woody Marks, who's done some really good things.

11:29I love the way he caught the ball coming out of college and he's run the ball well there with Houston. But the two to me that would be up towards the top, I would say Judkins, number two, and Kyle Monungay, number one, in terms of guys who are just ascending as they go to the year. And it shouldn't be a surprise if I was going to say the, you know, the through line with those two guys is power. And as you get later on in the season and defenses get tired and the weather changes, like to me, that's where you start to see some of these power guys really start to take over. And Judkins, I mean, shoot, just throw him in the Wildcat.

12:00Once they get inside the 10-yard line, he's going to be able to, you know, muscle his way into the end zone. He's proven that. He's just got to remember the play call. He's got to pitch the ball. That's all. not the best play call but we we probably need to pitch it he's awesome i would take him over genti i don't think that's overreacting if you had to restack it incomplete i mean i i've seen them twice i've seen genti twice and greg i mean they're awful awful they really are so i hear you and that's why it's incomplete yeah but i feel like if he was john robinson or saquon i would just see not those guys though a little more he we said he never said he was those guys that's fair i just love what i see out of junkens and uh that's just my take so he was my guy that i think he's good he's gonna be a good pro ashen genti have a good career but just in terms of a guy maybe is it that next level ability time it was the wrong time to pick the running back fair and that's that's the way we shake this if you listen to our 40s and free agents pre-draft stuff we've had this running back discussion and it's we keep asking the wrong questions do you take a running back in the top 10 no it's when is the right time with where you are in your build take a running back that's the question and that was not the right time for where their roster was great point i love woody marks too tougher than i expected and like davante freeman i mean he runs hard i just love that the energy that he brings every week really fun let me find my let me find my Woody Marks notes here real quick because I was curious to go back and look at that.

13:38Woody Marks, okay. He was 5 '10", 1 '207". He ran 4 '5", 4". Excellent pass catcher. He's a patient runner. Has those quick little choppy steps. He's elusive in space. He can jump through low tackles. He had a, and I use this word because I'm a fan of the movie. He had a plethora of one-handed catches uh fa do you even know what a plethora is uh three amigos if you haven't seen it go watch it's a great movie uh that's incredible they were they were playing it in the theater uh over at the arrow here in in santa monica what uh well yeah it's like it's like one of those theaters that plays old movies a lot of the time did you go i i would have liked to i was like i would go see that in the theater but it was 7 30 on a mail plane how can you tell and i'll leave it at that yeah and woody marks they're trusting him to to take some of those carries with nick chubb when he's banged up like you'll run into the line i like it all right give me your wide receiver that that you see rising yeah so we go through the wide receivers it's funny you're gonna laugh at this i have all my positions and i have all my notes here and okay i didn't put a wide receiver down i mean i can start you out because i got a few that i really like yeah give me your wide receiver and this is where I like this exercise yeah Luther Burden and Jaden Higgins are two guys who to start the season you're learning the playbook you got veterans in front of you just weren't a big part of the mix and as the season goes along you're starting to see all the reasons you and other draft analysts had them ranked highly and Burden especially I find interesting that he's kind of taking DJ Moore's production now.

15:16And I, I think he's going to take DJ Moore's role period next year. I sort of don't expect DJ Moore to be on that team, but there was a play last week where he's just the outside receiver and he has a comeback and it's one of the best timing throws I've seen Caleb make all year, 20 yards down the field and Burton's doing a little bit of everything four, five, six targets and catches each week. Good player. And, uh, it just shows you him between him and Loveland, we could talk about him too. Like it's a complicated offense. And sometimes it's that second half of the rookie year. You got to watch because burden's really been coming on.

15:47Yeah. I, I'm a, uh, I'm a fan of his game and I'll pull up my notes on him before I get to the next guy that we're going to talk about here. Um, but burden, uh, he six foot 206 pounds. He ran four, four one. I compared him to Stefan digs, um, coming out quick athletic slot, a lot of quick hitter. He's got strong hands, excellent body control. He shows real burst after the catch. He can make you miss and did not play with a good quarterback. There were a lot of bad balls. So, and I'm not, I'm not taking a shot at Caleb here, but Caleb's not going to be pinpoint accurate. So having somebody who's comfortable catching balls away from your frame, off your frame, low balls, high balls, like that's a, that's a good thing to have somebody who's a little bit experienced that and the weather you're going to plan as they played in green Bay and they're going to be in Chicago.

16:30Like you got to be able to adjust and he's really, really good at that. So I'm excited about him. The one I was going to mention is I haven't seen him in person. I can't remember if we talked about him on the last version of this thing, but Shamir D.K., just in terms of the return skills, and now you're seeing more as a receiver throughout this year, showing you some promise. I always think about these young teams of who's going to be a part of the nucleus going forward. And I think he's proven to be a playmaker and can be a big asset to Cam Ward going off into the future. Yeah, I totally am with you on that.

17:01They found something And he might just make an all-pro team this year as a returner, which is a great thing to have on your resume. By the way, I know we're talking about some of the disappointing things. We haven't really jumped into that yet. But I will be honest. And the timing for some of these players, it takes longer than others. This is not a death sentence by any stretch. But, man, I expected a heck of a lot more out of Golden than what he's given. Yeah, he was a tough one because he's not even getting on the field that much. and it's not like there's scrubs that are playing it i mean they have a deep room they have a good room but i thought he had a chance to emerge as the best of their guys and he's not he's not getting anything i would never call two-way star bo melton a scrub but i found it interesting last week that bo melton played ahead of him he got more snaps uh ahead of him so they don't think golden's ready and he's always they always were just missing those big plays to him earlier in the season and i mentioned jayden higgins quickly he's just been a great third down target for cj stroud and davis mills he's really come up if you look at some of the biggest catches of the season a lot of them have been jayden higgins in terms of declining just since when when we last talked look abuka is still in the mix for rookie of the year but it just hasn't been efficient him and baker they have 35 targets over the last month here dj he has 14 catches on those 35 targets for 129 yards doing a little math that is under four yards per attempt when you're throwing to a buka there's been about a drop a week it's just been misconnections it's obviously not on him exclusively mike evans hasn't been there he was coming off an injury but it just has slowed down in terms of how great he was in the first half of the season yeah no i think that's i think that's fair i still am a buyer of his going forward into the future the so my don't try to put it on me i'm not saying but the higgins thing is that my favorite part about him is going back through his stuff is my comp was nico collins so it was his teammate and can accelerate go get the ball uh 50 50 wins went on verticals um there's a lot of pass interference penalties that he's able to draw he's got stop and start quicks for a big guy uh which is impressive and i made this i tried to make this stick but then um i realized that people i'm probably a combination of me being old and then also, uh, people just not really respecting what were the twin towers and Ralph Sampson and Akeem Olajuwon.

19:32I tried to get that like twin towers, 2.0. I couldn't get it to stick, but with him and that's Collins, that's before your time. I know how old you are, despite wearing your master's hat here. That was the eight. You were like five years old or something. That's like 80. I'm like 10 years old. That's like primo, like NBA fan me. Okay. I was a Dr. J. My, my, my, I go back to the San Diego Clippers, Greg. My brother was the ball boy for the San Diego Clippers. I mean, maybe you just love ball more than me and we're grinding tape at eight years old. You are two years older. So that makes a difference.

20:09But I feel like Ralph Sampson was just like a little bit before my time, before I really knew what was going on. You know what those were for me? Those were, those were VHS taped games. We would go to church. The game would be in the morning, like finals. I remember like Celtics rockets and it was make sure that the VCR is set to record. No TiVo back then. Record it. So then we come back from church. We could actually watch the game and fast forward through the through the commercials. So that and by the way, one quick story, because I know you're clamoring for a San Diego Clippers story. My brother was the ball boy.

20:44My dad was the chaplain. and our seats were right behind the the hoop there so it might we were like six eight rows back and they were just because of of them both working there and playing the celtics i'm a little tiny kid and clippers are at the free throw line and as you can imagine the celtics fans travel well as they you know as they do and so then it was but it was kind of quiet clippers at the free throw line and i stand up because i'm just saying what i'd heard in the stands and i just yell at the top of my lungs is like a seven-year-old Celtics suck. And my, my dad, who's the chaplain of the team looks over at his little kid.

21:23He's like, what, what is going on here? What, what, no, no, I don't even know what that means as a kid. I just was repeating what I'd heard in the, in the stands. That is incredible. And. And don't apologize for that story. That's a review of free. That type of story is why the bosses are like, we need forties and free agents even during the NFL season. After the games were over, Bill Walton would soak his feet because he had bad feet, would soak him in an ice tub. And me and his kids, they would lower the hoop down and we would play. Those kids turned out to be like Luke Walton and his brother and all that stuff when I was just a little guy.

22:03And, yeah, those San Diego Clippers teams, they're better than this Clippers team at the very least. Yeah, I stopped watching the NBA a while ago. Again, that's why my references like the Twin Towers are all very dated. I think more Tim Duncan and David Robinson. They were kind of like a twin tower. So I don't know if they had that version or not. All right, let's wrap up the skill positions. Awesome tight end class. You talked up this tight end class going into it. And so you got to feel good about where they're at. Who stands out to you from that? Yeah, I'm going to pull back up my list here.

22:39So the way I had these guys, I had Tyler Warren, Colston Loveland, Mason Taylor, Elijah Arroyo, Harold Fannin, Terrence Ferguson, Gunnar Helm, Gavin Bartholomew, Rondé Gadsden. And then Jackson Hawes, just down below that, who's done a really nice job as a blocker. This class has been outstanding. For me, the ones I've seen kind of ascend, I mean, Harold Fannin Jr. since you've seen Schurig in there, it's a favorite target. And I love how they're using him. He's like an old school Frank Wycheck, like true H-back, where you'll see him in some fullback. He's in the wing. Um, he's winning down the field on corner routes.

23:16Like he's using a variety of ways, but he's like, not like a hand in the ground, traditional wide tight end. He's like an old school H back. And I, I don't know. I just, I always liked, I always appreciated guys like Frank white check. I was like, that's just, he, he like plays his own positions. Like there's not many of those guys that played that spot and have that role, which he does. Yeah. That's kind of like Haas who you mentioned, Jackson Haas, who's like a sixth offensive lineman, but every once in a while, they'll throw it to him. And he's been awesome. Fannin, I had written down, he is not that far behind now, the production in terms of yardage of Tyler Warren and Tyler Warren's having one of the best tight end rookie seasons we've seen.

23:54Fannin is fourth in fantasy points. If you're into that thing since, since week 10, he was my, my guy too. And you can see him, he can change direction. They had him like on a, on a fade last week in the red zone. They have him on like a wheel route out of the backfield like you mentioned just really versatile but you could you could choose any of those guys including Loveland who they're Loveland's been awesome a lot on his plate right won him a game I mean just that's one yeah was it Cincinnati right where he caught the one down the seam bounces off the tackle late in the game and takes it in so he's been a field stretcher get big time big playmaker and and you can see that that's Caleb's trust and confidence in him is just continues to grow that's gonna be that's it's my favorite offense right now.

24:35I try and watch the bears every week. And I know people are, people lose their minds on both sides of Caleb. I'm excited, you know, what I see and kind of where it's headed and where it's going, but just to like, in terms of watching like a pleasure watch for me, even if there's some misfires here and there, it's fun to watch that. Yeah. All those young guys, man. Yeah. The, the run game, the path game, it's all been good. And so that's why it's hard to have a disappointment at tight end. Maybe the disappointment is teams are letting these guys fall in the draft too far. I mean, if you look how valuable some of these second round guys in this class are, maybe they're falling too far.

25:09I guess Terrence Ferguson and Arroyo, they're having the more usual trajectory where they're trying to get into the mix, but they have veterans. There's a lot of mouths in front of those offenses. Yes. Terrence Ferguson is a big, impressive athlete and has had a few really nice catches, but right now they have veterans in front of them. Why don't we take a quick break and then we'll come back on the other side. We'll do all the linemen and the defensive players on 40s and free agents.

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