AFC North Preview

18:41Jourdan Rodrigue:DJ Turner was very, very good for him, for them. the corner Dax Hill, their other corner was very, very good for them, uh, showed his potential, especially, you know, in, in Jalen Davis seems like he'll at least be in the lead for that nickel position. So at least they have that settled, right. And they've got their front, they think figured out a little bit better, especially with an anchor like Dexter Lawrence playing there. I like the fact that they brought in a little bit of depth, the little competition to Cario Davis, the corner, the rookie corner that they drafted. I feel like I'm interested in, I'm interested in the size speed combination.

19:13Jourdan Rodrigue:I'm interested to see how he can compete. And I think that the combination of Dexter Lawrence, Lawrence, you know, sort of as I say this a lot, the center of that solar system around all things orbiting, you know, the linebackers still like they were. I mean, I, I just didn't think they were very good. And they, they showed some, some improvement again, like the rest of the defense near the end of the season, but they just need to continue that they need to sustain what we saw in like little spurts and flashes last year. And they need to like put it all together in a way that makes sense. Not just players making their plays the way that we saw with DJ Turner at times, you know, everything has to actually work together.

19:51Jourdan Rodrigue:And Al Golden has to be the one to put that all together. And he didn't show that he could. The Bengals fans and I think rightly are trying to hold on to that improvement, but historically being way better down the stretch doesn't mean you're going to be better the next season. The best test is how you were over the course of the season. They were the worst defense in the NFL and one of the worst ever for the first half. And in the end, it added up to one of the worst three or four defenses. And so he hasn't shown Al Golden, who was the Notre Dame defensive coordinator. So he's bumping up from college, at least for the last three years he was in college.

20:30And maybe he had a learning curve. So he's going to have to show it because they're not getting much schematic advantage, I don't think, on offense. And they need it on defense. That leads me to my scheme dream, which is we are on like year six of hearing that Joe Burrow is open to more play action, that the running game will be under center. Joe Burrow famously loves to play in shotgun. It feels like it's Joe Burrow's offense, really. And they build it around him, which which makes sense that he hasn't been as comfortable under center. They just haven't done that. and they say, he says, he's open to doing that and he thinks that could help out Chase Brown and the running game, which was erratic last year.

21:18Really struggled at the beginning of the year. They were awful and looked better when Joe Flacco was under center. And so I don't think that's a total coincidence because Joe Flacco is not running that Joe Burrow offense. And I don't want to start a controversy here, But if you look at the efficiency numbers.

21:37Jourdan Rodrigue:Oh, I did. Joe Flacco Bengals offense was like a little better than the Joe Burrow. They were both very good, to be clear. But Joe Flacco offense was quite good. They ran the ball better. That's my scheme little point. Will they actually do that? That would be interesting. Yeah, it's like the only time, one of the few times I've gotten like a very, very definitive no that didn't sound like a no on a story pitch that I've pitched to a PR person is me pitching the story and then him looking at me for a long minute and saying, I'll pray on it. So that is... You will pray on it. That is Joe Burrow.

22:10Jourdan Rodrigue:I'll pray on it. We'll see. We'll see. Once I get out there, maybe I just want to be in the gun. That's the thing I hoped you brought up. Because the other thing that kind of has driven me crazy about the Bengals is they have so much talent. We know the Jamar Chase factor. That's an omen and a sign. That was the first pass from scrimmage here out of Bengals camp I saw on social media. And this is a team, a Joe Burrow pass to Jamar Chase. That was effective. Not when he started the fight with TJ Turner. That was effective. I don't know if that's good. Not that omen inside. I don't know what to think about that one.

22:43Jourdan Rodrigue:But this is a 30 % 12 personnel rate team, right? The problem that I have with this is that when you run 12 personnel today and last year in this league and in this year and probably the season after that, too, both of your tight ends have to be a threat in not just the passing game, but in another way too, or they have to compliment each other in order to build those threats together. So we've got Mike Gisicki who did miss time last year. And, and he's like one of the worst yards after the catch tight ends in the NFL. And then they've got, and his name just gave me their blocking tight end. And these guys are not, first of all, being utilized in the ways that we're seeing 12 personnel be incredibly effective as true as a true mismatch.

23:26Jourdan Rodrigue:combination. Mike is sick. He is, is a great pass catcher and very explosive when he has the chance a big slot. Yeah. The thing that I would like to see if they're going to do this and build dimension into their offense is it's a very, very small nitpicky thing, but build more like yards after the catch potential yards after the catch plays and, and guys that can actually do that to add more efficiency and to get you guys ahead of the sticks on, especially second down where they were one of the worst teams in the NFL run and pass last year. And so that getting those after the catch plays going on early downs really, really helps with your overall efficiency and makes this offense more stable long-term.

24:03Jourdan Rodrigue:I know it's a nitpick, but I just, I don't, I see they're like, well, we have this player and it's like, well, there's more you can do with 12 personnel than just this. They are quite deep in the tight end room, which I like on paper. Tanner Hudson's played a lot for them. Drew Sample is who you're thinking about. Yes, Drew Sample. He's been there forever. Because I had a sample size pun, and I didn't even use it. But Eric All was a fourth-round pick two years ago that looked like he was really going to be a complete good tight end, then suffered a tough injury, and it was tough for him to come back last year.

24:34So they do have options. They still have Andre Yoshivosh as their third receiver. I'm just pointing out it's a very deep offense. It's not just those three guys. I love Chase Brown, who's going for a new contract. You mentioned the linebackers earlier. That's my answer for things go wrong. If Demetrius Knight and Barrett Carter are the names of the rookies last year that were the worst linebacker combination in the league, this defense was lost in general. They're just counting on coaching and development. I was shocked. They didn't do more this off season to help that position specifically. I think it's a pretty good roster.

25:08Otherwise they have Oren Burks who's played a lot of NFL football, but if you're, if your linebackers are getting cooked week after week, you're kind of DOA as a defense. So that's where I go.

25:17Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah, it's two things that I like this team a lot on paper, and I think it's an explosive high ceiling offense potential, right? But they're counting on two things, and that's my things go wrong if you're counting on the wrong things to go right for you, which is A, that your scheme and your teaching and your players have evolved or they're going to take the next step forward in a way that makes sense, that is functional for the entire group, that puts everyone in the best position to play and not just the quarterback, although that matters too. and then are you overly depending on the fact that just people are getting healthy again?

25:51Jourdan Rodrigue:And that to me is a big question. Their camp, their field stuff just started today, right? So we just don't know what we don't know yet. But for me, things go wrong if they've depended too much on the wrong things. They've also gotten a reputation as well. We fixed the offensive line. When I watch, you know, I know on paper, Amarius Mims is a good right tackle. Orlando Brown, they've paid a lot of money to that. I don't know if he's great. They are coming all back for the first time. But the interior line's not great. When I watch them, I don't think they perform like a great offensive line. Maybe it's partly because of what we talked about with Burrow.

26:24It's not helping out the running game. And it's just a pass, pass, pass offense. I got to see it. And yet, when I think about the ceiling of this team, do you think, ceiling floor, that they can be one of the teams that win the Super Bowl? The weird thing is, well, I'll let you answer first.

26:42Jourdan Rodrigue:Well, I feel like you wanted to answer very badly. I do feel, I feel like they are one of the teams that can get to the Super Bowl. I feel like I see their schedule and I see this division, how strange it is. And I see that their quarterback and what he can do. And the, again, like I mentioned, the explosive ceiling. If they can just be like middle third defensively, I think this offense takes them a lot farther. Sure. and then what's the floor then? Oh, same as we've been seeing, you know, and certainly like injury or not, you know, everyone, they're doing the same thing. You know, it's not working.

27:22Jourdan Rodrigue:The defense is getting carved apart because things, I mean, they won six games last year. That was pretty low. It's a huge variance team. I compare it to some of these. There are a few teams that I think have extraordinary variants from what their ceiling is and what their floor is. And I think the Bengals are one of them. I agree. And yet the last three years, they have not won 10 games in any of those seasons. Pretty crazy with Joe Burrow. And you'd be like, oh, Joe Burrow's been hurt. They've been pretty close to a 500 team, I think just over it, when Joe Burrow starts. They do have one of the best backup quarterbacks in the league right now.

27:53Flacco is still playing at a high level. He's going to have a second year in that system. So to me... They really are starting this controversy up. To me, their floor is more like 9 and 8, which is where they were 23 and 24. They had a winning record at least. And yeah, their ceiling, I can't see them winning the Super Bowl because they're the Bengals.

28:10Jourdan Rodrigue:I can see them making it to it, though. Yeah, I mean, yeah. I'm going to put them in the conference championship. I'm sorry. That's your ceiling. You're going to get there, and you're going to be like, we have a chance to win the Super Bowl, but then you'll think back to this episode and think, nope, it's all going to end right here. To me, that's their ceiling. They'll think, man, I really wish that Jordan threw out her Drew Sample pun. What was it? For another time, Greg. I mean, you brought it up twice. We're on to the Browns. We're not. We're going to take a quick break, and then we'll be on to the Browns.

29:00We'll see you next time.

29:07at AmericanExpress.com slash explore dash platinum. Terms apply.

29:17Back on NFL Daily, the much rumored, much anticipated, much talked about preview of the Cleveland Browns. What's bringing you joy?

29:32Jourdan Rodrigue:No. You're not getting joy? What is bringing me cautious optimism is a better framing of my boundaries. I'm in therapy. Cautious optimism for me. Yes, the offensive line is pretty much all new again. But I think it's maybe on a better track this time than is certainly what they tried to do last year. And I think that there's some young talent that I really like infused in there. I was really high on Spencer Fano. I think he's going to be a really great player. Titus Howard is the other tackle. Hopefully he takes a step forward. and Zion Johnson, who had a really rough time of it in Los Angeles with the Chargers before coming over to the Browns.

30:11Jourdan Rodrigue:They're hoping a fresh start is really good for him. And Tevin Jenkins is the other guard. And Elgton, which I can never say the first time, Jenkins is the new center. The thing about this, and four of the five spots are new, and yes, Elgton Jenkins has had some injury history as well coming over from the Packers. They did bring a rookie fifth rounder, Parker Brailsford, who is the starter at Alabama, which I always like. I always like when you've got sort of like a veteran experience starter, even if you're getting them in the later rounds and they needed to infuse some depth in here. They're kind of going with this like young wait till next year kind of vibe internally.

30:48Jourdan Rodrigue:And so I think that this is very much indicative of that. And I'd like to see them improve. And I'm cautiously optimistic that they will over the course. Yeah, they got way too old on the offensive line last year. Look, Zion Johnson, the Chargers were happy enough about him that they gave him a monster contract offer to come back. So I think he timed his best play well. And the Browns, I think, are rightly high on this offensive line. Good trick here for Elton Jenkins. The G is silent. Just ignore it. Well, I can't ignore it because it's an it's a L and a G. And that's in my brain. It's just right there in the middle of the word.

31:22It's very complicated.

31:24Jourdan Rodrigue:I'm going to have to type it like Elton John to get this right. It took me like five years. I think it was hearing some Packers announcer that just and then I looked it up. It was like, oh, the G silent. Love it. You want to move in silence. Yeah, like like the G in lasagna. Little Wayne. Yeah, the youth is what's bringing me joy. Aaron shots did a ranking of the best teams for under 25 talent. Cleveland Browns top five and I buy it. Harold Fannin coming off surgery at tight end, but he's already practicing. Quinchot Juggins also got hurt. So there is some Browns curse here, but love Quinchot Juggins.

32:03Coming back. Carson Schwestinger, like could have an incredible career based on his rookie season. I love the, on paper, the draft, although we'll see, you know, Casey Concepcion and Denzel Boston are fun at receiver. It's a lot of good young talent that kind of leads me right to, because it's all connected, that like Schwestinger or Spencer Fano, the left tackle are my two most important on quarterbacks. I don't know if you had one of those and then I wouldn't talk about them. No,

32:32Jourdan Rodrigue:I like, I like that. I would love to hear more of your thoughts. Because Fano left, it's left tackle. They had their choice of the entire draft that on the offensive line. That's where they decided to go. And if they get that pick, right. As good as their rookie class was last year, it was almost exclusively at the non-premium positions. Now you throw a left tackle in the mix. that's a legit guy and hopefully one or two of these receivers work out, then you really have something for their quarterback of the future. And I don't want to repeat what I said. Listen to the under 25 team we did with Shook earlier, but Schwestinger has a chance to be like a franchise player.

33:11And I don't want to put, you don't want to put that on someone right away, but can he be like a defining player? There's a difference I think between having a good rookie season that he did really good and becoming that guy. So it's just doing it again and doing it at a higher level.

33:27Jourdan Rodrigue:That's where my most important non quarterback. I went again here with a coach and that's Mike Rutenberg of the Rutenberg Bible. I feel like it's just such huge shoes to fill. It's a really tough job to take on following the really messy departure of Jim Schwartz. And I think what he can do best is really lean into the things that already worked and he's got new personnel. Miles Garrett has obviously been traded. Jared versus there. Jared Verst is an outstanding young talent who's really going to anchor one side of that offensive line. It's going to be an Alex Wright and Isaiah McGuire combination probably on the other side.

34:01Jourdan Rodrigue:Malik Collins should be back. This looks on paper like this could be a yes, rebuilt. No, it's not Myles Garrett-less. It's like flipping on a light bulb versus turning on the surface of the sun. But this has real potential. With Swessinger in the back, you're not worried about cleaning up the table for the linebackers as much with what you do up front. And then they've got some real talent in the defensive backfield. Denzel Ward gets paid. Grant Delpit gets paid. I know you guys covered that on the news show. And Emmanuel McNeil-Warren, the safety out of Toledo, I really liked him in the draft.

34:35Jourdan Rodrigue:So it just all fits kind of the architecture that already existed. He has a similar, he comes from like a similar scheme rules in terms of his coverages that Jim Schwartz did. They like covering up the middle of the field. They like really playing aggressively and really complimenting in that way with the front. And I just he just needs to not try to do too much. Just just let these guys develop and play to their strengths. I always worry about that. And sometimes it works. The coach that comes in is like, we're not going to change everything. We're inheriting like almost an elite situation. But then I think about guys like Josh Grisard last year, like who was trying to do that.

35:14a lot of times when you try to just like hold on to what happened before, it's tough because you're not just losing Myles Garrett. You're losing Myles Garrett and Jim Schwartz. And that's why things go wrong if because the defense is talented. I think Quincy Williams could have like a pop-up good year, like rebounding next to Schwestinger as like a guy who just does crazy stuff. You're laughing because I killed Quincy Williams all last year.

35:37Jourdan Rodrigue:Yes, that, but also I'm like, I don't even know if I should tell you what my things go wrong. Let's continue. Not tell me. Yeah, because part of them collapsing on defense and defense is unpredictable is. Like if it doesn't go well, like they could start trading guys, you know, and they're just that team. We haven't even talked about the quarterback situation, but it's Shader Sanders and Deshaun Watson, two guys who no one expects to be the quarterback next year. And so like if the defense is, let's say, 20th in the NFL for the first six or seven weeks, they're probably one in six at that point.

36:10Jourdan Rodrigue:And then do you not think they're happy about that? I don't think they're trading players at that point. Do you not think they're happy about that? My things go wrong if, is if they play too well. The schedule could help them. The schedule could help them. Look at the schedule. And then look at, and this goes to some, first of all, I think the defense is going to be good still. And then the scheme dream part for me is, I love all the move players all over this offense. It's kind of awesome. They've got some holes still. I'm looking at, you know, their receivers is still, you know, a little bit thin in parts.

36:43Jourdan Rodrigue:It's partially rebuilt with Casey Concepcion and Denzel Boston. Jerry Judy is still there. I'm still looking to see who steps in and kind of fills out that complimentary room the way that they want to. Dylan Sampson, the second running back, second string running back, was actually the number one running back in screen EPA last season. And this is like a Harold Fannin. All these receivers build layers and textures and can move into different positions at once. And there's motion and there's formation changes and positions. Like, I like it. It's not a bad roster that Andrew Barry's put together minus the quarterbacks.

37:18The questions is like, can the young players keep it up and can the wide receiver room somehow sort out? And yet you have four or five guys if you count Isaiah Bond and Cedric Tillman as guys who could contribute. Bill Simmons was on Mina's show earlier this week and threw them out as a potential playoff team. And I was like, wow. I have not heard anyone say that. But if you were looking for a stunning surprise, like I always look to the lines first as who could be a surprising team. And there are routes to these lines being quite effective. I don't see it. I don't think that's how it's going to go in the end, but they're a little more talented than some of the bottom dwellers.

37:58Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah. And I wouldn't normally do this, but with the Browns, I think you have to, because you have to look at next season with them. I think they've made that very clear with some of the, the moves that they've made and then really accentuating the draft the last two drafts as a total rebuild of almost total rebuild they can't you know they obviously kept some like pillars quote unquote but so far they have 11 first round picks in 2027 again I would not bring this up this early but this is kind of what they're looking at too the two first rounders are there but it's really interesting they don't so far have twos or threes so it's almost like in it next year yet and so you if you really are gonna maybe play too well and play yourself out of quarterback contention, what you actually need other than those two firsts is actually the twos and threes to bundle into short-term capital gain for the team that's trading their first round pick to you to move up.

38:50Jourdan Rodrigue:So this is a very delicate and strange tightrope that they're walking. I think I'm assuming they're going to be better than they were last year. And that's why I'm sort of talking about it like this, but it's like that, that is a really funny place to be is, Hey, your roster kind of looks like it's got some juice to it at this point and could you maybe have backed yourself into the wrong corner here well in todd munkin is the new head coach there and can he provide a schematic advantage i think he's overall been an effective inventive offensive coordinator had some great years with lamar jackson it fell apart a little last year but overall was good great there it's just it's just the quarterbacks like the talk about bad omens the first play of uh brown's training camp or no, this wasn't a first play, but within the first practice of Brown's training camp, Watson threw interceptions on back-to-back plays.

39:44And that's just, it's just where he's at. I assume Shadur Sanders is going to play more football than Deshaun Watson. I think Shadur Sanders has a chance to carve out a solid NFL career. And this would be the year to really make it happen and improve as a second year player.

39:59Jourdan Rodrigue:I'm on the record on this show talking about how I'm higher, I think than some on the upside of him long-term of shooter Sanders. I also don't ever underestimate, uh, the, the pride and some of the ego that goes into trying to make a contract work, even if it's a late, you know, a late effort. Um, and I would not be surprised if this is not reported or whatever, but that just my vibe read, I would not be surprised if we see Deshaun Watson and they just try to make it work the entire season. I am hoping for Browns fans, for myself who, um, you know, I'm a hater that just Deshaun Watson gives them no choice, but to bench him, to not play him in the first place.

40:46Jourdan Rodrigue:He would have before he would have before, but last time he took the field. Right. And I even mean like in camp like this, and that's where you love football because if he plays at the level, some of the reporters who've been watching him this off season have indicated and that he's played last time he had a chance like they can want to see if it's going to work out but he might give them the answer and just watching him for three weeks be like we can't play this guy we actually maybe just feel good and let's get rid of him before the season even starts give the browns fans some you know they'll just feel lighter if that happens well we've been saying this for years i know but i'm just saying if he was awful maybe you just roll with Shader and then Dylan Gabriel is your backup.

41:29Jourdan Rodrigue:You can only hope. Little lanyard here. That's just when we give something extra. Their winning percentage this century is 343. 343. The next closest worst team in the NFL is over the 21st century is the Raiders. But they're at 390 something. That's a huge gap. The difference between them and the Raiders is the difference between the Raiders and the 20th team in the NFL. Oh my lord. Ceiling floor, you indicated, I think, that their ceiling maybe is a little higher than people think. So I actually, I was looking at their schedule and I actually saw seven possible wins. But, you know, I have no proof.

42:09Jourdan Rodrigue:I have no proof that they're going to do better than expected or even at expected. And, you know, I say this with, you know, a lot of empathy for Browns fans who have just been waiting to be a quarterback away for a long time and had to deal with the blow of the trade and all of the different sort of strategy shifts that this team has done over the last couple of years. But I just can't, I cannot, I have to hedge it with possible until I actually see that it could be probable. Lord, number one overall pick? Yeah. Okay, so you think they could be that bad. I think it's a similar ceiling because of the schedule.

42:41I don't think it's that hard to win six, seven games in the NFL. I think it's over.

42:46Jourdan Rodrigue:Famously, you think this, and I would disagree with you just on a logistics level. I mean, the numbers tell me I'm right. Basically, 85 % of the league does it every year. It's not the numbers, Greg. It's the way you say it. It's not that hard to win six or seven games. It's been hard for the Browns. But I think I agree with you. I do think there's a path where they get to six, seven wins. But yeah, the floor is three in picking high. Pittsburgh. Ooh, spicy. I think they're a variance team too. Yes. In a major way. I do think there's a higher ceiling for them. They bring back Aaron Rodgers for one last rodeo.

43:26Hashtag last rodeo. They bring back Mike McCarthy for one last rodeo. And he just seems so surprised and delighted and emotional. The Pittsburgh kid comes home and they bring back a lot of talent on both sides in terms of their line play. They pick up Michael Pittman in the offseason. what is bringing you joy about a team that didn't bring me a lot of joy last year, frankly?

43:53Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah, I like them. First of all, this year. Second of all, what really brought me joy was Aaron Rogers opening up the week, talking about how playing more under center will help them on early downs and getting the play action going. Now this man was in shotgun on almost 68 % of his snaps last season. And what brought me joy was picturing green Bay Packers head coach, Matt LaFleur reading that, reading that clip or watching that clip on his phone and just, just throwing his phone. And yet when he listened to Matt LaFleur. I tried to tell him all those years. When he did it, like back with Green Bay that led to the best.

44:30But it was such a,

44:31Jourdan Rodrigue:I did a partial, partially did a documentary series on it. It was like such a compromise. It was like play by play, play by play. What do you like? What do I like? What do you like? What do I like? Under center play action, run past play action, those bootlegs, the long developing boots have always been a part of Mike McCarthy's system. That's bringing me a little joy. We're going to see the modern throwback version of this guy who I just don't think ever gets enough credit in terms of his influence on the league and how we play football today. I'm curious if he will adjust to certain things more on that in a later section, but those two, that the combination of that's bringing me joy.

45:06You're absolutely right of how he in New Orleans was a very influential young hotshot offensive coordinator and then helped change the league and I think he has adapted more based on his personnel and that's what's important it's not about the scheme it's about like fitting your players to the scheme and so I am curious how this one is going to look and that is what's bringing me joy is just McCarthy's offseason utter surprise utter joy at the time of his life where he can openly appreciate I can't freaking believe I got this job and that I sold the Roonies. And I think he believes it in his heart.

45:42And I think the Roonies believe it in his heart that actually we weren't that far away. Like the talent is there. I don't actually think it's that crazy a notion. If they, if they had Brock Purdy at quarterback, I would be like, this can be a contender capital C. I've got my major doubts about Aaron Rogers. And yet the rest of the roster and, and the McCarthy hire, or even like they needed someone new. And even though it's McCarthy, I think they actually might get a benefit from seeing things a different way. Who is your most important non-quarterback?

46:13Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah, famously, as I told you before the show started, had a hard time picking because there's a lot of players who I think are going to majorly contribute to this team. Famously to who? To you. Okay. Yeah, famously. Just to me. Famously. Okay. We're in a vacuum. And I wanted to save Patrick Graham for my scheme dream because I'm really excited about Patrick Graham. Just combine them here. Combine them. Fine. Fine, Greg. Patrick Graham and the combination of this front structure, specifically Nick Herbig, who was my lead candidate for most important non-quarterback, just because I think he should play more.

46:45Jourdan Rodrigue:Patrick Graham and this defense. I'm so curious what he's going to do with this front structure because, yes, we know he's got the three edge rushers, Nick Herbig, aforementioned Nick Herbig, Alex Heismith and TJ Watt. and Nick Herbig just got paid the four-year$100 million deal despite playing 200 or less snaps than TJ Watt. Despite TJ Watt missing a big chunk of the season. Despite TJ Watt, yes. Like at the end of the year, they couldn't even get him on the field. That was famous. Famously. On this show. The thing about Patrick Graham that was such a, it's such a gift when he can do it the way he wants to do it, but it became such a dead weight to him in Las Vegas was that he's like really genuinely excellent at shaping his scheme to his players.

47:29Jourdan Rodrigue:Like coaches say this, you just said it. Coaches say it all the time. We want to evolve our scheme to our players. We want to do what maximizes our players. He actually does not ascribe to a specific system, although he comes from Belichick. He has some Flores in there, Spagnolo in there too, but he doesn't say he comes from a specific playbook or system that he has to teach. It's instead very much player-based. It's very teachable. It's very like uploadable for, for players. And he's very specific with them. He is not afraid to all out blitz. He's not afraid to, to fake like he's all out blitzing and then dropping everybody.

48:05Jourdan Rodrigue:He's not afraid to design like this crazy fastball pressure. He's not afraid of move players. I think players like Joey Porter Jr. When he's back, Jalen Ramsey, when he's back, you know, Jamel Dean is here now. Jaquan Brisker is here now. So we talked about the front, but this coverage structure I think could be so exciting and so, so interesting. Don't think too hard about the middle of the field, but everywhere else, I just think Patrick Graham could absolutely design some like Brian Flores level. We're talking about cool, magical stuff through the course of the season. That's my hope and my ceiling for what that defense can look like.

48:41You texted me at eight 15 this morning, got really excited about Patrick Graham this morning. We are so back. I'm with you. If I had to describe Patrick Graham's scheme over the years, it would probably be do stuff. Like we're going to do some stuff. Do some stuff. We're not going to not do stuff. And it's often very different. It can change based on the week. I think that's the Belichick Flores influence, but you're right that it's not always like the same year after year, even the middle of the season. He he's an interesting coach to watch. And I think this is the most talent he's had maybe ever.

49:17He was back with the giants. They had some back then, but I think this is probably the best team he's had. But that leads to my most important non-quarterback, who's TJ Watt. And I think TJ Watt could benefit from Patrick Graham. Mike Tomlin's defense was very static, was very old-fashioned. TJ Watt specifically, I think he didn't want to move.

49:37Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah. But they listened to him. They are going to move TJ Watt around. I think they'll rotate him more, which could benefit him. It really hurts your team build. if you have a guy who's guaranteed mid$30 million for the next two seasons. And he's dragging weight a little bit at the end of last season. He looked tired, looked a little injured, was definitely their third best edge in terms of a pass rusher. Still effective early in the year, but not the same TJ Watt. So he's just a big... He's like larger than life. And if they can bring out like a late career TJ Watt one of my most memorable seasons when I get inducted into the Hall of Fame because he is going into the Hall of Fame.

50:23He has already had that career. But sometimes with those guys, it's like, oh, you thought they were declining. And that at the end, they show you a little more greatness when you weren't expecting it. That's this season.

50:33Jourdan Rodrigue:Call an ambulance, but not for me. No, I feel like that's part of that was part of my Herbig note is like sometimes paying the other guy gets the best out of the first guy. and I think that that is super super important here that little extra like you call it lanyard but like that motivation and all of those different things that really go into and and and a fresh start like a fresh new thing to learn and thing to try to explore and be curious about I think that's really going to be important for him and they're doing things differently the you know beat reporting I thought Mark Woli who writes for Pat McAfee but he writes it on Twitter like just amazed and everyone's so amazed about the attention to detail and how like organized practices and how they're doing this, that and, and they're not tackling as hard in practice.

51:16They're not tackling at all in terms of life tackling. Like Tomlin was one of the last coaches that was still doing that. And you almost got the sense, you know, Tom would have been there a long time and I think change sometimes just for change sakes is good. I will give you in terms of my scheme dream, a test here. If you can name, I can't look down. if you can name the Steelers offensive coordinator for the 2026 season, I will get your next lunch at the huddle.

51:41Jourdan Rodrigue:Oh, it's a, it's the guy who played for, who was with him in it's rollicker ball. It's something that's like Colicchio. Okay. You got closer there. It's Ikkyo something. That's close. But he was his guy in green Bay. I'm not going to give him to you. It's Brian Angelicchio. Angelicchio. I knew it. I was just like, man, I know it's like, well, it's like a flourish, a little flourish. I have to admit, not familiar with that man and just curious. Yeah, what we already talked about this, Mike. It's really a Mike McCarthy offense, certainly how he works with quarterbacks and their drops and the details is really his signature.

52:17And yet you look and they drafted Jeremy Bernard in the second round to be their third receiver. They trade for Michael Pittman. DK Metcalf, can we get him going down the field a little more? You have our guy Mount Washington, Darnell Washington. How are they going to use him in Friermuth? does that change? You lost Kenny Gainwell at running back, but you did bring in a bruiser and Rico Dattle behind Jalen Warren. There's enough talent here, especially adding Pittman. Man, I think a really solid two, but there's not a lot of explosiveness.

52:47Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah. And so this team's going to have to, I think, work hard to score. And I think they need to get more out of DK Metcalf being explosive because he can be. That was my things go wrong if. I think that's a really great point that you brought up because they felt like like that posture you have after you get your laptop too long. Like that's what their offense felt like. And I'm here. Yeah. This is an audio medium, but I'm doing it. They're getting on the YouTube. They're getting that little bump now on their neck that a lot of kids are getting. Yeah. The little, yeah. iPhone face or whatever it's called.

53:18Jourdan Rodrigue:I don't know. We're getting off track here. I think that this, they also had to live in the world where they created some of those explosives that they did get on yards after the catch plays. This was an Aaron Rogers world where he just wanted to get the ball out. He was still probably not feeling very good, you know, with his feet and his knees and just was needed to try to just get those quick outs. Kenneth Gainwell, who's not there anymore, was was the player who really capitalized on that for them. I think Jalen Warren is going to be still really effective in the passing game. So I'm curious because I do think Pittman becomes more of that inside move player, like that power slot kind of vibe where he's going.

53:54Jourdan Rodrigue:We can see how he runs after the catch. He's a tough player. He can turn out some of those extra yards. So that's fine there. But how are the, otherwise are they going to create explosives? What are they going to do with maybe not three receivers that they want to use? Like the way that Mike McCarthy typically has maybe a combination of the running back and the tight end as your third receiver. Maybe you train, play with some formation. We talked about the play action, which should help their explosives. If they actually do it, I want to see DK Metcalf get down the field. Like he wants to do. Right.

54:24I think things go wrong. If I had a couple answers to it, but like if they play offense the way they did a year ago, I don't think how Aaron Rodgers played last year is sustainable. It can maybe get you to nine and eight if your defense is playing well, but he has to hold onto the ball a little longer. He has to be willing to go down the field. It might've been personnel scheme, whatever, but he has to play different. I also think things go wrong if the secondary, which to me is incredible variance. I think this is a variance team. You mentioned Jalen Ramsey. Like he's an up and down player. He's starting this year injured.

54:56Jaquan Brisker is a massive hitter, but he's an injury risk. Jamel Dean's career has been a little up and down. Deshaun Elliott's there and kind of revived himself. He's a little up and down. I think Joey Porter Jr. is good, but he's kind of a, like a, he runs hot. So this is very in city. It could be an awesome secondary. Like things could go very wrong. Yeah. I kind of see that with this team in general. I think their ceiling is a little higher than people think. Sounds like you agree.

55:24Jourdan Rodrigue:Yes and no, because when I thought about it at the end of the day, I have too many questions still about the quarterback and the style of ball that the quarterback will play. This is like a data gathering team for me because I believe that the defense is going to be so fun. I agree with that variance, but I think that Patrick Graham's defense almost manipulates or uses variance to his advantage, helps them become like not super easy to scout. Like you mentioned at the week-to-week game plan, those types of things. I was talking to Quab, one of our great producers on the show, and I was like, Like we were talking about his favorite teams, the Steelers.

55:55Jourdan Rodrigue:And he was like, what do you think the ceiling and the floor is? And I was like, what do you think it is? And he goes, either 10 and 7 or 7 and 10. And I was like, that's the Steelers. Okay. Yeah. That's where I'm at. That's a little depressing. So you don't see a path to winning the division. I actually think there's enough talent. And I haven't underlined it here enough on the offensive line. Max Ihanachor and the guards and Zach Frazier. I think there's enough talent on the offensive line. and then the pass rush and Cam Hayward still on the defensive line. There's good, talented bodies behind him.

56:26I think there's enough talent for them if things go really right and we're a little wrong about Rodgers to win this division and have a genuinely surprising, we're in the mix. I can't see them going to the Super Bowl or anything, but I could see them winning the division, winning a playoff game or something. I think the ceiling is higher than people are giving them credit for. I mentioned the variance between Rodgers and the secondary. Yeah, I'm with you on 7 and 10 is kind of the floor for this team. That is it, except for our division predictions. In the end, how do you sort these four teams?

56:59I'll go first to give you a little time. I will put the Steelers third still. Ultimately, I think they land in the middle. I'm just giving myself some room to see that it's possible.

57:09Jourdan Rodrigue:Master takes right there. No, I just... Takesmanship. It's how I feel. But I still do put the Bengals above them as the second place team. I do have the Ravens first. Yeah. The Browns last. I have the Ravens first. I think if they're all goes well for the Ravens, that's a Superbowl team or potentially to be a Superbowl team. I've got the Bengals second again, such a high ceiling. This is like variant city here through most of the, the AFC North Steelers third Browns fourth. You already put three AFC West teams in the playoffs. So are you putting two in here? Three? We'll have our final playoff predictions.

57:41Don't make,

57:42Jourdan Rodrigue:I'm so I get sweaty when you asked me to predict things. Cause yeah, if you went like three here, then you're just not even possible. Mathematically. No, mathematically, no. Then I just start spinning. You know what? I'll give you until the end of the month. We will do our official playoff predictions then. But we're lining up the division. Wow, I'm really looking forward to that. I know. We have a great show coming up later on Thursday. Just updating you on all the news. That'll be myself and Jordan Rodrigue. I can't wait to see you then. All the teams are practicing. Training camp is off and running.

58:17Jourdan Rodrigue:Now you gotta fill time. Sometimes you start it, and then you're like, I'm already done. We're through three divisions, right? We also might have a little lanyard in your feed later this week. That'll be a little surprise.

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