AFC West Preview + Panthers Problems

21:02Jourdan Rodrigue:And you got more corners than you have spots to play them at this point. And you're really still questioning what's going to happen with some of the peer pressure that they're bringing when they want to rush like out of base or something like that. We're already through 10 minutes, which means we're going to most important non quarterback. And I'll just I'll be quick on this, which is like it is Pat Sertan to me. Yeah, they're so deep in the secondary that they don't even have a starting spot right now for Jaday Barron. We talked about his battle with Riley Moss. Like, and yet if Sertan isn't Sertan and just making everyone better around him in the secondary, like the secondary, I think is what helps make this team really special.

21:39I love the safeties too, but it only makes sense when you have potentially the best cover corner in the, in the entire NFL and Sertan.

21:45Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah. I mean, I'm going to go with the offensive line because overall, I think it's the best offensive line in football. It has been for a couple of years now. That also means you mentioned it in scheme dream. got to run the ball better. Number 19 in rushing DVOA last season. That is not befitting of what they want to do with this offense. And that makes Jonah Coleman accidentally became very, very important work. Lots of buzz around this fourth round rookie locally. And obviously JK Dobbins and RJ Harvey are still the leaders there. They need more from that entire group. And so I make them maybe the most important progress fans were mad that JK Dobbins like wasn't ranking in the top 20 on some of these things that were down to a minute here.

22:22My land yap here, which is just something a little extra. Some buzz. Jared Stidham might lose his backup quarterback job to Sam Ellinger. How about that?

22:30Jourdan Rodrigue:I have it in my notes. This is the team that should go get Jimmy Garoppolo to play backup quarterback for them because we all watched you, Jared Stidham, in that game last year. Much respect to your career overall, but my goodness, my friend. That was tough. It was a tough situation. I mean, Drake Bay wasn't that much better. It was a tough weather day. Justin Strenad, who is one of our friend, Olly Connelly's, very favorites as a rush linebacker, has a much bigger role now as a starter. They got rid of Drake Greenlaw, if our listeners missed that. And then I just noted with the opening schedule, they have the three NFC West teams plus the Chargers and the Chiefs and the Jaguars in the first six weeks of the season.

23:13That is brutal. I mean, that is five playoff teams for a year ago, three of the best teams in the league from the NFC West. That's crazy. Let's wrap up. We're at the end of our 12 minutes, but we'll go over with our ceiling and our floor for the team. We did it. Sort of. I mean, we haven't done the ceiling floor part yet.

23:28Jourdan Rodrigue:I mean, I think this is the best team in the AFC West. Okay. And then, so what's the floor you think? So then you think it's more like a wild card. The floor is they can't run the ball and the quarterback gets hurt and it's more of a wild card. Okay, yeah. I'm trying to take getting major players injured because we could say that for every team. Because I did think about that too. You could say that for every team. I think with everyone healthy, still that's the floor because if they can't run the ball better, Teams are just going to start keying on them way more. So I think judging by what you're saying, like even in a worst case scenario, as long as they have good health, you see them as a playoff.

23:59Yes. And yeah, I mean, I think the ceiling is winning the Super Bowl. It's not that it's same. They're one of the teams that could do it. I think in this division, they could be a third place team though. I don't think it's that crazy to imagine them in that spot. If just a couple of the things we talked about.

24:15Jourdan Rodrigue:Similar to the NFC West last year, I think this year is the AFC West. And it's tough. If you're the third place team in your division, it's tough to make the playoffs. You can do it. But you're back in that spot where they were a couple years ago, where you're like on the road in the week one against a good team like the Bills. It's time for the offseason ride-along presented by Toyota. It's a tough division. And that's because it includes the defining team of the last decade. The Kansas City Chiefs had one of the best seven-year runs of all time in the NFL. Maybe it's right there. Three titles, two more conference titles where they lost the Super Bowl, and two more conference championship losses.

24:56So they came up one year short of what I thought was the most unbreakable record in the entire NFL, which was the Patriots' eight straight conference championship game appearance. You're in the final four eight straight years. They were one short. They win six games last year. They were bad even before Mahomes tears his ACL. And so I really do look at that as like the beginning of something. is this the start of a new chiefs era or do we end up looking at last year as like a little bit of a blip when you look at them overall, we'll start with what's bringing joy in terms of their situation.

25:29Jourdan Rodrigue:Well, like anyone with healthy boundaries, Greg, I decided to reframe your question and say, what helps me keep my joy as it pertains to the Kansas city chiefs. And it is just solely focusing on the idea of getting a healthy Patrick Mahomes back. Then stop right there. Okay. don't think about what the run game may or may not look like. Oh, this doesn't sound joy. Don't think about the receivers room or that the tight ends room, maybe stagnant. Just don't think about that. Sounds like things that could go wrong. All I'm saying is I'm keeping my joy and I'm thinking about what healthy Patrick return, Patrick Mahomes returning means for football, for our fun level, for our excitement, for our joy.

26:05Jourdan Rodrigue:And that's where I stopped. I'm glad we had a good meaty conversation about Mahomes on the quarterback Island casting call. So everyone checked that out from Wednesday. So I don't want to repeat myself, but what's bringing me joy for this team specifically is them being in a different spot. Like we were getting a little bored. I was getting a little bored and it's these all time greats. Three guys who I think are obviously my homes and Andy Reed are going to the hall of fame. I think Steve Spagnuolo should one day. And it's three guys, Chris Jones, you could throw on that list too, who are in just a different position that they're having to kind of box their way out of lowered expectations, a lesser roster, and just a year to go show us like, wow, they really are different.

26:52Because if they come back this year and they win the division, or they win 12 or 13 games, they're winning in the play. It's just pretty unprecedented what they've accomplished. But there's more doubt coming into this season. And that kind of variance gets me excited. I know schemes get you excited. And so I'm going to go first on Scheme Dream. Why not? And it's how Spags is going to deploy this new secondary.

27:14Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah. So they drafted Mansoor Delane in the top 10. And they bring in Eloy Gilman. He's going to be at safety. At Nickelback, they have Cater Kohu. They don't have Trent McDuffie anymore, but they drafted a couple guys. Kennedy is another player. And they bring back Legereus Sneed, who had some great years for them before he went to Tennessee. And so they were pretty middling last year. They weren't as effective with the Blitz. in the end Spagnuolo kind of figured it out to where they were like a plus defense, but not a great defense. And so I want to see how Spags uses this secondary, including like a top 10 pick.

27:49Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah, I think that's a great choice because it's he's like, oh, he did it again. And a guy where, you know, it's like, oh, give him give him your draft picks and your rookies and he will turn them into the best one of the best and most terrible to play. If you're an offense defenses in the entire NFL and has that reputation for a reason. I think something that goes part and parcel with what you're saying is I don't know if they can rush the passer from the edges. I still am not sure about that, but when they brought in like Kyrie's Tonga, for example, who was my most important non-quarterback on this team because of what this defense looks like on paper, Greg is it's because he is supposed to, and has the expectation of being able to free up Chris Jones because he's acquiring more of the double teams.

28:35Jourdan Rodrigue:Chris Jones was at a 38 % double team rate. Kyrie Tonga didn't play every snap for the Patriots and missed a game or two, but he also was double teamed on half of the snaps that he did play. He's going to be eating up that extra attention if you can rush better. Even if you can move the pocket better like they want to with Chris Jones from the interior, your secondary is going to be better. Your life is not as hard for those young guys. Steve Spagnuolo has a has a better table set for him. So I can see the vision. I'm a little dubious. I can see the vision, but I was surprised Tonga got such a big contract, especially from a team that doesn't have a lot of money to spend.

29:13Like he's a 25, 30 snap a game guy for the Patriots, but he was really emerging.

29:18Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah. And it's a body type and it's a, it's a position that tends to age well and get better around. Stay in the way. Right. Chris Jones, like his cap figure is so big. That was a contract that they almost felt like they had to give, but it's, you know, it's bigger than Patrick Williams. It's way higher than anyone else at the position. And you mentioned, yeah, the, the edge spot is one of my things that could go wrong, which is you have Karloftis, who's kind of an average player, maybe a little above average on a big contract too. And then at the other spot is one of the position battles. I never got to with, with Shooky was our Mason Thomas is like sneaky important.

29:54He's a second round pick and he's going to be batting Ashton Jalati, their old first round pick Felix. uh, in a DK Zama and nice. Those guys, they just haven't hit for Brett beach. He need, he needs someone to hit our Mason Thomas. Maybe, maybe. Cause,

30:11Jourdan Rodrigue:uh, Felix and you said it better than I will. Um, F a W just hasn't injuries been some of it, but just been underwhelming. Did you have a scheme dream by the way? And I do. And I'm really excited about it. Okay. Kenneth Walker, obviously being there, they think that's going to fix so much of the offense and offense, by the way, which I can't wait to watch some of the clips. that we're going to get out of training camp, because I want to see how much Patrick Mahomes is under center with Eric Bien-Ami back and some of that 2022 stuff that they did that really worked. But also because Kenneth Walker said in the offseason, he prefers to run from under center because he has so much more of a vision on the defensive backfield and on the linebackers when he can do that.

30:49Jourdan Rodrigue:So he can set up, he's very artistic the way that he runs. But I mentioned it the other day, and I was really hoping to get into it more with you, but him on screens, my favorite play from last year, a couple of my favorite plays from last year were the Seattle Seahawks featuring Kenneth Walker as the pass catcher on screens. He had the highest EPA, second highest EPA on screen passes of any running back who caught at least seven. It's a small sample size for running backs on screens. I understand that. Yeah. He made magic happen when he did, because he runs, he treats it like he's running outside zone.

31:20Jourdan Rodrigue:So even if they change some of their blocking, even if they change some of the, uh, the under center and the play, even if they do those different things, they, I suspect are going to treat the, especially because of the way Kenneth Walker runs the screen passes as an extension of how he hits those layers to the perimeter on outside zone runs. And he is absolutely so visual and like he's, he's an artist when he does it. So I'm really excited. And I, I think it's why they didn't do more with their tight ends. I think it's why they didn't do more with their receivers because they think of how much of a factor he's going to be in the passing game.

31:52I picked Chris Jones as my most important, not non quarterback, but I think Kenneth Walker would also fit. They're really counting a lot. Yes. On Kenneth Walker because Patrick Mahomes is not going to be able to run as much as he did a year ago coming off that torn ACL. Look, the Seahawks had some seasons where they were counting a lot on Kenneth Walker, too. And he didn't always come through. Like everything wasn't his Super Bowl MVP performance. He hasn't been like the guy, the guy. And they were a team last year that was still good running in short yardage, but they had no explosiveness. They bring back Eric Biennemi.

32:24Again, if you're just kind of Tooney in, you know, their longtime offensive coordinator who hasn't been with the team for a few years, they're expecting his return to help the running game, to help the details, to help the offense. And I think that could happen. And all connected to that, my number one thing is things could go wrong of where things could go wrong is if the offensive line is an elite. And this is my way of saying I think they could be elite. You know, like if you're creating a path for them to win the division, to go deep in the playoffs, it's that the offensive line is the best in the league or close to it.

32:59I think that's a reasonable thing to hope for. Josh Simmons, you know, he has the potential. We'll see. Could he be the next like Laramie Tunsil type of player? Like, I think he could. We'll see it. They already have an all pro in Creed Humphrey. They have a guard they love in Trey Smith. Tua Matea got better. They have a highly paid right to like with the enemy there. If they're elite, everything else gets like those wide receivers that we don't love. They look better. Mahomes is injuries less of a big deal. The running game like they hold the ball more. Everything is better. And I think it's possible.

33:33That to me is the route to them being the Chiefs again.

33:36Jourdan Rodrigue:The one red flag I have about this, because I think true and I, you know me, I came in here fired up last offseason. a Josh Simmons believer saying a team is going to get an absolute steal on him. It so far looks that way other than, you know, you need to count on him for a full season. And so that's a factor after you missed part of last season with personal stuff going on. My red flag is right tackle, right? Because everyone, all the local beat writers are talking down there right now about how Jalen Moore is actually going to have competition. Andy Reid is not, maybe it's a motivational thing.

34:10Jourdan Rodrigue:Andy Reid has not just said, this is our starting five and Jalen Morris. And they're paying him$15 million a year. He came from San Francisco. And Asipol and even Khalil Benson were actually thought to be legitimately in the mix for that job. And so this is going to be interesting. They say that at Kansas City Chief Training Camp, you could pretty much tell right away in the early days of the practices because they're so grueling, basically, who Andy Reid wants there full time. I think it's probably rare that someone loses their job after they start out that way if they perform well. So we'll know very soon about what that will look like.

34:45Yeah, I do worry about that a little bit. They've been able to coach it up over the years. It's been a little more up and down the last few years. My most important non-quarterback, as I mentioned, was Chris Jones, just because the way their team salary cap structure is, they just don't have superstars on defense. Delane maybe could be that guy. His play was a little down last year, but not that far down. Like he was averaging about 80, 85 pressures a season in the regular season. in the three years before that, he was down to 68 last year, like just down, but not that far down. He, they just have to have him be incredible.

35:20And so that's why he's important. What, where was, did you have a things go wrong? If, as we get, well, I think I've kind of said it as, as I've

35:27Jourdan Rodrigue:gone, I do want to tell you, it's sort of a lanyard kind of thing. Let's go. It's just this trickeration that Andy Reed likes to do. It goes back to my Kenneth Walker and our point that how, how much of a factor he's going to be in the offense. There are certain things that Kenneth Walker does and that they could design with him in Seattle last year that really set up bait, essentially. And we often see past blockers bait the rusher. We see that all the time, blitz pickups, things like that. There's a play, a 20-yard gain in the first quarter of Seahawks 49ers in week 18. He fakes like he's going to pick up the blocker, a totally typical fake blitz pickup where you're baiting the delayed rusher.

36:05Jourdan Rodrigue:it's because they saw that San Francisco was going to send an extra rusher late. So delayed blitz. So Kenneth Walker basically just like swung open the door for that guy just popped out in the middle. And there was like a little, he had to sell it. It was a trickeration almost like he had to, he had to really commit to it, step out of the way of the train just in time. And then they obviously have the math advantage on that side for the screen, the tunnel screen at that point, because he has numbers back into the pocket trying to get to the quarterback. that's like tricky stuff that's the way you have to sell those things Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes love that stuff that was my little lanyard of like oh I could really see that working there if it worked in Seattle with Sam Darnold like with Patrick Mahomes and the ballsmanship like I could 100 % see that working it used to be a cliche what's Andy Reid gonna show early in the season that everyone is gonna stop start copying like what's Andy Reid got in his back pocket in September.

37:01Not saying, you know, he's getting older here, but has he had that the last few years? I don't know. We're out of time, but like we could use Andy Reed, like getting some schematic groove back because I'm on the show. I don't think they're the most talented team in the world. All right. I guess how we're doing it now is like, we use the 12 minutes to talk Eric and then we do the ceiling floor.

37:21Jourdan Rodrigue:What did I say? What did I say? I love it. Connor or our friend at sports illustrated. and he had the call. I saw as I'm walking through the newsroom on Wednesday that Fox Sports has a whole segment about Connor Orr wrote down 14 teams for Sports Illustrated that have a chance to win the Super Bowl. And he did not have the Chiefs as one of his first teams. Whoa, so you know who I bet that made mad. Nick Wright. And yeah, they had a whole segment about it. That's what I know. I disagree with Connor. They would be on my list of teams that could win the Super Bowl, and that is almost entirely in my almost blind faith in Patrick Mahomes and him being able to prove a lot of people wrong when you least expect it, and Andy Reid, and enough talent still there.

38:14So the ceiling to me, that's the very high ceiling, but I think winning the division is a realistic goal. it is more likely that they become a normal team and a normal team. It's like, we're fighting to make the playoffs and there's a world where we don't make the playoffs, but whether they are still the chiefs, capital chiefs, like we, we will find out. I don't think that's the most likely outcome.

38:38Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah. I think they're a worse team collectively overall, all in their build than the Denver Broncos or the Los Angeles chargers. So that automatically puts their floor super low for me because of the, of the division that they're in. Right. but I have in my notes once again this team will go as far as Patrick Mahomes takes them the thing that that so many of those teams that are sort of middle right don't have are an exceptional extraordinary quarterback and so for me if he's right if he stays right like that is there's no limit to what's possible when he is your quarterback and yet yeah coming off a torn ACL you just glance over that like we don't know for sure that he's back week one we don't know what he's going to be like during the season.

39:22That's what we expect. You know, we've seen great quarterbacks come back from torn ACLs and not quite be the same, including the guy who has the closest career to him. Tom Brady was not, wasn't bad, but it wasn't quite his best.

39:35Jourdan Rodrigue:He had to change his play style a little bit. In 2009, and it was one of the only seasons. They won 11 games, but they did not make the playoffs that year with Tom Brady. That was the off-season ride-along presented by Toyota. Because when people are the destination, your ride is important. Learn more at Toyota.com and find the vehicle that fits your people. Let's talk about the Las Vegas Raiders. Oh my. Now, if you haven't been paying attention, this was one of the most active teams. Not only did they sign NFL Daily guest Clint Kubiak to be their coach, you know, right after we talked to him after the Super Bowl, but they signed Tyler Linderbaum, big time center, like reset the market.

40:16they replaced like who was it at linebacker last year that it was ridiculous uh was was playing oh the void yes just a total void and then you you give a lot of money to n 'kobi dean and quay walker they somehow kept max crosby by mistake after trying to trade them they now have a surplus of passage they signed quiddie pay they brought back mountain koontz like a lot of off-season moves they signed jaylen naylor who was a receiver with the vikings who will play a big role here. So this is a team that was very active. They look a lot different than they did when they ended last season. The new look Raiders, what's bringing you joy?

40:56Jourdan Rodrigue:I like watching a bad team try to get good. I love team building. I love team building. I like changing processes. I like trying to understand how processes are changing, how coaching methods are changing, which I think is a big one here. I think that this scheme lifts a lot of players that are already on the roster, which we'll get to. But just like, I just like watching. We don't know how this is going to go. I like watching a bad team try to get good. And it's interesting because they kept their GM, John Spitek. What does that say about me psychologically? No, I think that makes sense. You gave me a little concerned look.

41:31You're into the front office. Maybe you can imagine if you were going to be somewhere in the NFL, it would be in the front office. You like the process. You love process.

41:41Jourdan Rodrigue:I do love process. And part of the Raiders process was to keep John Spitek, who was the GM. And so they actually did keep a decent amount of their players from last year in terms of like the middle class. But they brought in a lot of money. What's bringing me joy is just Mendoza. I mean, he is a walking ball of joy. It's not got to carry away. This is a franchise that just hasn't had a lot of hope. I know Derek Carr was a franchise quarterback, but I never believed in him as a difference maker, as a difference maker. I just didn't. This is... I don't think people realize how bad the Raiders have been.

42:14For a team that is, I would say, the second most popular team in the NFL, they have had a winning record twice since they made the Super Bowl. That was in 2002. Do the math.

42:26Jourdan Rodrigue:How old were you during that? I was 10. I was, I don't know, 23 or something? Yeah, like, that was 22 years ago. 23 years ago, they've had a winning record twice! Um, yeah, like Mendoza just, he gives him a chance that the, the word is that Kirk Cousins is going to be the quarterback all year. I just don't believe that if, if he looks good, we'll see. Like, and I just don't believe Kirk Cousins would even stay healthy for an entire year. Anyways, they know that in the back of their head, by the way, anyways, like what are the odds that Kirk Cousins at this age, uh, stays healthy? What, what gets you going when it comes to the scheme?

43:04Jourdan Rodrigue:Well, I mean, Colton Miller is going to be back in terms of protection, but in particular, It seemed like some of the moves that they did make, including Tyler Linderbaum, was specifically for to help buoy the run. And obviously that's a young quarterback's best friend having a center like that. But he's supposed to help grade the road. He's not necessarily known for his pass protection. Right. So, like, he will help. I've heard road grader. I don't know if I've ever heard grade the road. That's the active. Yeah, yeah. That's the active. Where are you going, Tyler? I'm going to go grade the road, grade the road.

43:34Jourdan Rodrigue:A. I think that for me, I'm really curious about, like you mentioned, that middle class of players. I think that there are some traits that they seem to draft for that didn't make sense at all. Once we saw what Chip Kelly's scheme actually was going to be, including some of the receivers, Jack Besch being a prime example of that, who sort of projected as like this power slot who's going to do a lot of work away from the ball. that is what a Kubiak family offense is going to ask of the receiver and certainly of the tight ends although I think they're going to use Brock Bowers in every way possible but that is what I'm curious about can this scheme and that's probably what they're waiting to see is can this scheme elevate some of the skill guys that otherwise would have wasted draft picks on Ashton Gentry was a top 10 pick last year that might have been more of a Pete Carroll pick and yet they could maximize them with their offensive line.

44:25If you're looking for a ray of hope, this maybe doesn't fit into any particular category, but they drafted a couple of guys in the third round last year on the offensive line. They got playing time late last season. What was it? Caleb Rogers. Another one this year in trade zone. You look at the offensive line in general, Jackson powers. Johnson is there. You have Colton Miller. You have Linderbaum. You have DJ. Like you have depth. I think if John Spitek can feel quietly good about something related to the team building, it's like this offensive line might be something that we have fail safes.

45:01If there's injuries, it's going to be an identity. People don't know. Maybe it's our identity yet. Kind of like with his old team, the Bucks, like it was quietly built into their identity. And that makes everyone skill position wise better, including Gente, who didn't wow me last year and including all the receivers. You mentioned Jack Besch. It's a pretty underwhelming receiver group. It's Jack Best, Trey Tucker, and Jalen Naylor as their top three wide receivers. Bowers is their one. And you have Michael Mayer at tight end, too. So you have some depth, but it's not a lot of star power.

45:29Jourdan Rodrigue:But I think, and again, talking schematically, you have to give those guys a second job. Yeah. Those guys have to exist in large part to spring your talent skills open. And Ashton Janty in the pass game is a talent skill. and especially some of those like heavy power screens that you would see Clint Kubiak run at the start of last season and then went away from it because people were starting to scout them. Loading up in 12 personnel, four by one with both of your tight ends and your heavy power slot in Cooper Cup on the one side, my favorite play I saw all last season and it's a screen and they layer it out all down the field like they're doing a micro version of an outside zone run and it's Kenneth Walker just like, skipping his way down the field, freely untouched.

46:16Jourdan Rodrigue:Ashton Gentry can run in space. I trust him maybe less. You know, I just need to see more. I need to see more. But he can run in space. And I think that is where you're going to try to maximize. Well, you talk about road grading. And I think this is a good looking offensive line in terms of running the ball. No running back in the league, maybe was less suited than Ashton Gentry to deal with that terrible offensive line. Because ultimately, he's not Kenneth Walker. He's not going to make you miss in a phone booth. he is going to run you over. He will get broken tackles and missed tackles, but he needs a little bit of a runway like a Derek Henry for him to do his best.

46:52And I think they could be that type of offensive line. My scheme dream here is just pointing out who their defensive coordinator is. It's 38-year-old Rob Leonard, who they know because he was on the staff and they decided to keep him, but he's never called plays before. And I think quietly, it was a big loss, you know, changing defensive coordinators, because as average as their defensive performance was a year ago, I actually think they were pretty well coached up. And so you have a first time coordinator in Rob Leonard who's going to have to show he has more talent to work with. I mentioned up front, you know, they're much better.

47:32They're pretty deep in terms of their pass rush now with Crosby. Kept Max Crosby. Right. You kept Max Crosby. In case you were under a rock. and you're paying a lot of money at linebackers. That could go a few directions, but, you know, we got to see it. It's a guy who's never done it before in Rob Leonard.

47:47Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah, double-edged coin there, too, because, yeah, that's going to be sort of a baptism by fire, essentially, but it's also totally unscouted. Like, what is his system, right? And it's not going to be probably anything quite like the tree, quote-unquote, that he comes from. I think when we're talking about all this stuff, Like, I think that this team overall, Greg, is going to have to be really scheme heavy. Like, they're going to have to, because they're just talent, that we know of so far, until we see some of these guys develop as the course of the season continues, I just think they're going to have to get the best out of putting guys in position to be successful.

48:24Jourdan Rodrigue:Like I mentioned, giving players multiple jobs to help spring open or create space for some of their stars. Especially on offense. And we cannot leave this segment without talking about Brock Bowers, who is like, A, A, my real reason for joy. B, my lanyard. C, just as... How about most important non-quarterback? Most important non-quarterback, which is what I said. And I think that there's this sort of... People are looking, and I've done the same thing, looking at some of the Seattle concepts last year that Clint Kubiak ran, to try to get a sense of what they're going to do and what kind of player Brock Bowers will be in this offense.

49:01Jourdan Rodrigue:I think that might be the wrong place to look. Because if you were going to take A.J. Barner, Seattle tight end and put a jet pack on him and then like, you know, double him or whatever. It's just not right. I think you look back at those 23, 24 George Kittle seasons where he goes over a thousand yards per season as a pass catcher and the entire offense is re-coordinated to funnel through what he does. He's a move player. He is doing really interesting things out of stacks and different formations. Yes, he's blocking in the run game as well, but that passing game really reverted out of need at that time to funnel through him.

49:33Jourdan Rodrigue:Clay Kubiak, excuse me, Clint Kubiak. Jeez, there's a lot of freaking Kubiaks. He is following from that playbook. A kettle of Kubiaks? A kettle. A kettle of Kubiaks. Bowers is the best player on the team. I think he's better than... If I had to choose, I'd take him over Crosby. And again, he can open things up in a way that just others can't. I mean, he is a guy that has Hall of Fame... Brock Bowers. I love you, man. Has Hall of Fame talent. And was hurt last year. And was hurt for parts of last year. He's not the biggest tight end in the world. I think things go wrong if the secondary gets fried.

50:12You mentioned they've got to scheme things up. Patrick Graham was the coordinator, I should have mentioned earlier, that did a good job. Look, their number one corner is Eric Stokes. I said a fourth-round pick, Jermon McCoy, who has a lot of talent, could be battling for the other starting job. They drafted a player, Trayden Stooks, in the second round, who could be a slot, who could be a safety. They brought in Teron Johnson, who was good for the Bills, but they let go of him, I think, for a reason. Like, it could work, but it's a pretty unproven secondary. And it's also a linebacker group in N 'Kobe Dean and Quay Walker, who that's a...

50:50Jourdan Rodrigue:Variance. Variance is right. Like, they have given up some big plays. They've made some big plays. They're getting paid a lot of money. So if things go wrong, I think it's that the pass rush doesn't even have enough time because the back end just is getting fried. Yeah. Their, their defense minus, you know, a couple of spots, including whatever side Max Crosby is lining up on to rush is a huge red flag to me. Even I understand. Drop my pen. I understand why bringing in like those linebackers, it makes sense to me. You know exactly who they are. If you're the coach, like we don't know what it's going to look like here.

51:30Jourdan Rodrigue:they know they can sort of level set around them. They need stability. They needed veterans on that side of the ball too that are not just occupied up front on the line of scrimmage that can communicate. Like, I understand all of this. I just, man, I don't, last year was so rough through most of it for the Raiders. I don't think it can get any worse, but I do think that there's going to be some real bumps for this defense along the way. And I love the edge group with Crosby and Kudy Pay as the two. Kieron Crawford was a good draft pick. Malcolm Koontz is a year healthier. So they have some talent.

52:04What is our ceiling and our floor for this team? What is success for the 2026 Raiders?

52:10Jourdan Rodrigue:Progress, right? I have them anywhere. I could see potentially four wins on their schedule. I could see them as high as six. Okay. I thought four was the ceiling. I was like, that's tough. No, four to six wins is sort of my range for them. To me, and this is unfair, I'm taking the question a different way. success is just Mendoza. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, if you spent the first round... He's going to play and if he just looks good, I mean, we've seen rookie quarterbacks be pretty promising right away. Very recently in this league, CJ Stroud, Jaden Daniels, like it happens. If he goes out there and whether it's early in the season or late and he just looks good, I don't even care what the record is.

52:51But yeah, it's hard with their schedule. The entire AFC West, like I mentioned, has to play the NFC West. It's hard to imagine. anything higher than seven or eight wins. But to me, it, you know, it's just Mendoza. If Mendoza looks, if he only plays three games, but those three games are really promising, that's plenty.

53:08Jourdan Rodrigue:So would you say he's your Mendoza line? Hey.

53:14Over under on Mendoza starts. I'm setting at 12.

53:20Jourdan Rodrigue:Oh, that's a lot more than I probably would. I'm not buying the hype. Yeah. I'm going to say, I don't, I have to go back can look when their bye week is, but I'd say after the bye week. Yeah. We will wrap up. And I think this is going great. I'm having a lot of fun, Jordan. With this next one, can we just like triple the time? Bursky, come on! We will be going to Chargers camp at one point. Famously low budget here at NFL Daily in terms of our early travel. So we travel to the places that are close. And the Chargers are like 10 minutes away. We're going to go see the Chargers in a couple weeks.

53:54So you can talk about them more. Sure. Then.

53:56Jourdan Rodrigue:Okay. Chargers coming off in 11 and six season, only 17th in DVOA last year, though. That kind of caught my eye. The bad playoff game is a factor. They really invested in getting their blocking better. They bring in Charlie Kohler. They hire Mike McDaniel, an offensive, you know, running game wizard. They remade the entire interior of their offensive line. They signed Tyler Beata. She's been a good center for Washington. They signed Cole Strange, who was in Miami with Mike McDaniel. They drafted Jake Slaughter in the second round. And so, yeah, they really emphasized getting a little tougher up front, like an old school Jim Harbaugh team, especially in terms of running the ball.

54:39That's just a little bit of an overview. We obviously can't hit everything here of where they're at entering the season. What is bringing you joy other than Mike McDaniel?

54:48Jourdan Rodrigue:This quote from tackle Rashawn Slater on the new blocking scheme. The rule is just get off and just go destroy everything in your path. So honestly, just fun to block. Doesn't take too much thinking. That is a beautiful way to think about this Chargers team. And, and yeah, all Joe out there left tackle and Rashawn Slater, the right tackle them being back and us just being in the time of the year before anything horrible happens to the Chargers. It gives me joy. I'm always way too high. They're real. They real listen every time. I do it every time, willingly, willingly. They tell me, girl, delete the number.

55:26Jourdan Rodrigue:And I just say, you know, but maybe I can change him this year. Here's the thing, and I don't know if you want to get into McDaniel in terms of scheme dream, but it is year three of this Jim Harbaugh build. I always think year three is the year for the new regimes, and I know it's the first year of McDaniel, but it's year three of Harbaugh. You have these tackles coming back. Like the vision of whatever this Harbaugh-Joe Hortiz team was supposed to be. it's now and they've had success. They've made the playoffs in back-to-back seasons, but it's now. And they're not third-year 49ers, Jim Harbaugh.

56:00Maybe they suffer a little bit because I'm always comparing them to those old 49ers. How could you not? And they're not there. There's potential maybe. And tell us scheme-wise how they could get that potential.

56:11Jourdan Rodrigue:Well, they got to run the ball better, which we have talked. We will talk, I think, so much more about this Mike McDaniel run game and what it's supposed to be I think it will take some time to really see the full expression of what the run and pass game with him is going to be because it's so detailed and I just want to touch on it very briefly the run part the run game part of it which you're smiling because you're like brief whatever you say very briefly that you're like no she's got paragraphs I think they're going to use motion more I mean it's it's pretty obvious it's you watch any of his his other schemes on the in the run game specifically the Chargers were not a really predominantly motion team, particularly not in the run game last season and certainly for the last few seasons.

56:51Jourdan Rodrigue:And I think with this, because he uses tight ends and fullbacks to execute a lot of the motion concepts in the run game specifically, that means he's changing gaps. So your linebackers will shift or they'll be staying stagnant and they won't rotate till after the snap. Against this team, particularly, you probably are going to have to try, you think they're running the ball, counter-rotating to where they're motioning because otherwise a gap is going to be open because he uses the big guys to basically say, OK, I'm going to pick up this gap that I have and I'm going to move it over here. And now the linebackers and the safeties do not know what gap they're supposed to be covering or they're out of their gap assignment because of the way that they end.

57:29Jourdan Rodrigue:So he does it with formations, big personnel. So that's what I think is part of what will make this run game so effective. And it's a lot to deal with, especially early in the season. One of my little lanyard things was this is on paper, one of the toughest schedules in the entire NFL, but they open with their two easiest games on the entire schedule. Cardinals Raiders at home back to back. So that's like a nice little, you better win those games. But I just think McDaniel has a lot to work with, but also a lot to work on new players, new tight ends, tackles coming back from injury. It's just a lot.

58:11And it's a little bit of a prove it year for McDaniel in a way that I think Aaron Schatz pointed out well, he's not exactly a made man. Even we've never seen him as a offensive coordinator running his own offense. We've seen the Dolphins, but even as great as the Dolphins were, they never kept it going the whole season. They're off. He's supposed to be an O-line guy. The O-line was up and down there. He's supposed to be a run game guy. It was great when it was great, but sometimes it was, it was pretty bad, you know, like Tua gave him limitations, but it wasn't all perfect. So but it's just a lot for him to do.

58:41Jourdan Rodrigue:I'm glad you said that because there are so many details where I'm not, I'm not sure we see this. I think our expectations are so high for what this is. I'm not sure that this offense meets them immediately. I think over time it does, but immediately there's so many things. I mean, he changed Justin Herbert's footwork this year and this goes into some of the passing game tweaks that they're doing. There's so much intricate, meticulous, small, tiny, tiny timing things that go into how he wants to do this. He does not have the speed that he had in Miami, but he's going to use space in very, very similar ways.

59:15Jourdan Rodrigue:And so they flip Justin Herbert's foot, front foot. So his left foot's forward now, because in Mike McDaniel's mind, it's always been this way that you can get the ball out faster. Well, that can't just happen in a vacuum. What they will also do, and you'll see a lot of this, I think, is use motion with the receivers to inform a check down, not necessarily use motion to go on these long developing plays. Justin Herbert had very few answers, quick answers, quick options to mitigate pressure. That was some of the things that really drove fans crazy watching in some of these years. And what Mike McDaniel does differently about his checkdowns is he uses motion and he uses formation changes to set those up to where they can gain more yards out of a small pass when the quarterback's under pressure than they normally would as sort of a desperation option.

1:00:00Jourdan Rodrigue:So I think all that's so based on timing, it's going to take some time. And Herbert's been a guy who likes to hold on to the ball and then make a big play. And I do think this could help him potentially stay healthier. Can we have a normal Justin Herbert season? The story half the time is him just playing through some injury and being heroic about it, but you don't always want him to be a hero. I'll mention something we haven't mentioned yet in the first five minutes. They play defense for the Chargers, too. That's so sweet that you think we've only gone five minutes. No, I think that's true, roughly.

1:00:32Chris O 'Leary is their new defensive coordinator. So a lot of attention on Mike McDaniel, but they have two new coordinators. Jesse Minner was thought of as one of the best coordinators in the entire league. So these are big shoes to fill. They sent Chris O 'Leary, who was with the staff before, to Western Michigan to try out some fun schematic stuff. And then they bring them back. It's like a farm system. What does he bring? Now, it's not an overwhelmingly talented defense. I don't think. It's not an untalented defense. But when you're looking for real difference makers, you know, Derwin James is getting up there in years.

1:01:05But is that guy, Tully, Tully, is a great edge. But is he, you know, a great number one edge? You know, I think he fits somewhere between like the 20th and 25th, you know, edge in the league. What they have is continuity. Of their 11 projected starters that I looked at, 10 were on the team last year. and most of them have been with the team for a couple of years. So I will get to kind of a larger point of like where this team can get better. But I do think like seeing what O 'Leary has to play with, because this was a very extreme team last year. They play with the lightest box in the league. They play the most six defensive backs in the league.

1:01:45Like we'll see if he keeps that same style.

1:01:47Jourdan Rodrigue:Well, I think he could be an extreme team in other ways to Western Michigan. They were scoring defense. So that's sort of feast or famine. Right. And so I think that with, they want him to be very much like Jesse Minter. That's, that's my impression. But they also are, they send him down to the college game to work on some front structures and pressures and different types of spacing and, and flexing his mind about making game plans where the spacing is different at that level. That's what they've done. The Harbaugh's have done now in this second, like reinvention of them both in the NFL. And so I think that's what I'm curious about is how aggressive will this defense be?

1:02:26Jourdan Rodrigue:How much will it depend on what Chris O 'Leary did in a very small sample size of actual defensive coordinator slash coaching that we've seen him do game planning? We've seen him do. And then will he continue to sort of operate this bespoke package for, um, Derwin James, like he helped build with Jesse mentor when he was first there. So that connects with my things go wrong. If, and to me it's if the, if the defense looks sneaky old. You know, Derwin James, Khalil Mack, Dalvin Tomlinson, who was the one new starter that they brought in. Tony Jefferson might not start, but he's going to have a big role.

1:03:01Denzel Perryman. Dante Jackson's like about 30. Like, even their draft picks, Akeem Mesidor is old. You know, he's like a 26-year-old rookie. So, you know, that worries me a little bit. They have some young players on the roster. And this is a more overall kind of idea I'll throw at you with the Chargers. To me, the only way they're as good as we think they're going to be is if their younger players, specifically on offense, really turn into some of those great pillars that his old 49ers teams have. And that means Joe All actually being like the best left tackle. And Rashadon Slater fulfilling his potential.

1:03:39And Ladd McConkie really taking a step up. And Herbert taking a step up. When I looked at like areas for improvement for this team, It's the young receivers too. It's, I think, especially on offense, like they just need to develop these guys. And there's been a lot of potential on this team. Like that's the only way they're going to be as good as we think they are is all of those young dudes taking a big step up.

1:04:01Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah, they, I really was sort of just gobsmacked by this when I went to their camp last year. Man, they passed the eye test. They are massive at every position. Even their smaller receivers like Trey Harris, Like they are giant players like everywhere. They've got all this size. They've got mismatch personnel. They've got all the kinds of newfangled ways you want to play offense and all the kinds of old school plays ways that you want to play offense. And with Mike McDaniel, you know, they're going to mash it all together and it'll be fine. But I think if things do go wrong, it's because collectively it takes too long.

1:04:34Jourdan Rodrigue:First of all, for all these little detail things to, to happen, which I know is why I wanted to bring in Alec Ingold and Charlie Kolar, because those are two guys who can kind of jumpstart that block fullback and a blocking tight end who can catch the ball who are going to activate that entire surface run and pass and then first activate service i know i know i almost got it tattooed on me this offseason when i was on pto you know wild times um it was really like it's really like if if it takes too long it almost might be too late right because everything is going to be so competitive in that entire division and i don't think I don't think fans should mind if it takes longer than they expected.

1:05:14Jourdan Rodrigue:I think expectations are out of the gate. They kick doors down. But if it if it starts to delay a little too much, like that's when people are going to start to get real restless about it. Yeah, I have Ladd McConkie kind of representing that entire group as the most important non quarterback of all these younger guys who have a ceiling they could get to. But I feel like they're going to all need to do it together. You know, Ronda Gadsden's in that mix. Some of to kind of grow up together. Grow up. Do you know what my lanyard is? Their tight ends room is Arante Gadsen, Charlie Kolar, and David Njoku.

1:05:49Jourdan Rodrigue:If that doesn't make you smile, I don't know what would. That's pretty good. And the running back room with Amari and Hampton and Kamani Vidal and Keaton Mitchell. I love how in both those rooms, they're all doing different things. It's not a star-studded skill group, but it's very deep. Herbert has more than enough around him. We can't make the excuses this year. All right, ceiling and floor for this team. If you were doing the exercise, and maybe Connor's way of thinking about it is instructive and helpful and we'll do it that way. Like, would you put them on that list of teams that could win the Super Bowl?

1:06:18Yes. Yeah, I think I would too. I think their reasonable ceiling is winning the division, certainly. Like having a home playoff game or two. And the floor is that they're the freaking Chargers. Like, it's amazing how much has gone wrong injury-wise for Jim Harbaugh. And yet they've won 11 games the last couple of years. but the floor is that just disaster strikes.

1:06:42Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah. Yeah. Even if healthy, like they could be third place in this division. I would say that for all three teams. I don't think there's that much separation. Yeah. I have big depth questions about them on the offensive line and on defense, like you mentioned, but really, yeah, their ceiling is about as high as any team with talent in the league. And certainly with that exceptional quarterback, their floor is what wild stuff is going to haunt us this year as a pertains to the Los Angeles Chargers. We've reached the part of the show I was most fearing, slotting the division in. I really haven't come up with it.

1:07:18Because I don't want to be picking things just because, oh, well, everyone's going to be doing this or, you know, like, or picking just what you want to root for. But I do that a little bit

1:07:26Jourdan Rodrigue:because you like, why not? You know, you're not, you don't know if you're going to be right or wrong anyway. So you might as well. You go first. One to four. One to four. I'm going Broncos, Chargers, Chiefs, Raiders. I have this feeling about the Broncos that the season when the expectations are so high, when everyone agrees it's like the best roster, when nothing's changed, when the last season ended with some like bad luck loss and then everyone just kind of pencils you in the next year, it's just setting you up for big disappointment. And so I don't know how or why it's not going to work for them, but I have them third and the Raiders fourth.

1:08:12And that might just be like a 10 win season or whatever, but I hate the teams that are like that. And they just expect to start.

1:08:19Jourdan Rodrigue:He's not beating the allegations. Not beating the allegations. He's not beating the allegations. Although I've been called many times in my socials, a chiefs hater and just like way too in the bag for the chargers. But I do have this gut feeling that I'm going to go with is I'm going to take the Chiefs to just find a way this year and win this division. And so I think if and when NFL.com asks me, and I think they will, to prick all the playoff teams, I'll probably put all three of these teams in. But I will put it in order. Chiefs, Chargers, Broncos, and then Raiders. Give me the Chiefs in a season where they're not expected to win the thing.

1:08:57I just... Well, then they do the nobody believes in us except for

1:09:00Jourdan Rodrigue:Greg Rosenthal. No, I think this is a master takesmanship, by the way. you taught me about this I do believe it though I do think that they're all they all are all three of those are playoff teams I do think that and I do think they're all about the same and it seems like a cop out but I really think the top of the AFC and I would put these teams in it it's a pretty even six or seven teams and I think these are three of those teams that should feel really good about themselves and then the Raiders You got a kid to be excited about. I'm excited to do the rest of these division previews now. We nailed it.

1:09:37Jourdan Rodrigue:I know. I signed myself up for so many of them. That's how we want to do it. All Jordan. All the time. Nope. All gas. No breaks. Well, especially before you do some of your training camp tour. That's it for our week. But as you hinted at, we're doing the NFC West. We decided to do West is best first. And so that division preview is coming on Monday. In addition to a bunch of training camp news, it's going to be happening. Teams are showing up. Seattle, the Patriots, the Super Bowl team will be there on Monday. Talk to you later.

1:10:09Jourdan Rodrigue:This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.