Divisional Round Sunday Recap: Rams Escape Caleb's Heroics and Patriots Handle Houston

20:38Like he went back further and completed the pass more than any throw in the NGS era. It also was the longest completion of any red zone throw. Not a surprise there in terms of air yards in the NGS era. So that's just putting like a couple of numbers on, on seeing fantastic play. And Ben Johnson called it just ridiculous afterwards. Now in that moment, there's what, 18 seconds left. And it's 17 to 16. Do you think that Ben Johnson should have gone for two shook? And did you think he would?

21:15Nick Shook:I don't know if I would say I think that he should have. I thought he was going to. I definitely thought this is like the most aggressive coach in the NFL. He comes from the Dan Campbell tree, one of the most aggressive coaches in the NFL. But it was also a great example of how within the game, how it can affect your decisions later. Because every time that they went for it, whether it was in a goal to go situation, they turned it over on downs twice in this game. And the fourth and goal situation they had earlier, which led them to needing that throw. So it was a call that, you know, it's a quick fire pass and it gets broken up by space at the goal line.

21:47Nick Shook:And you're thinking if that's your best play call at that point, you probably have nothing left. So I understand why you kick the PAT, you take it to overtime. You think you're going to ride the wave of momentum at home into overtime and capitalize there. But I was a little bit surprised just knowing who he was, that he didn't go for it just because that's, that's the type of coach he is totally understood why though. Don't disagree with it at all.

22:06Patrick Claybon:Yeah. I said to Greg before the drive that this is setting up for a two point conversion that we're going to have a chance to talk about for years. But the explanation from Coach Johnson makes perfect sense. And it shooks all over it. The play had already been run. Like if you go through like game winning two point conversion plays, considering the stakes of the game, whatever they would have run in that situation was probably already called. And it wasn't executed well, as he pointed out, he was just saying, like, they weren't clean. He wishes he had a better plan. Our goal to go plan just wasn't great.

22:38And if you're watching again, you can see the video, by the way. I just want people to see this, that Stacey Dales shot of the Caleb touchdown, which might be the finest reporter on the sideline, just taping from their phone, hoping to get a little magic moment ever. Maybe the number one of the genre, Cole Komet just swinging for the home run right to Stacey Dales. He was like, I'm going to score a life-changing touchdown. Then I'm going to find Stacey Dales and go right into her phone.

23:12Patrick Claybon:If you're watching on Sunday Night Football, you're thinking, wow, Cole Komet went right to the Sunday Night Football camera and hit his home run celebration. No, that was Stacey. He was doing that celebration.

23:21Nick Shook:Yeah, just just off screen. Crazy. Also, Stacey, great master of the Zoom feature on an iPhone, right? Like the little pull your thumb up, pull it down, zooming in, zooming out at the perfect time. Tim Cook hit her up. Whole thing is crazy. And I certainly don't blame Ben Johnson for not going for two. And I, this is why press conferences, you know, asking for context is perfect. That, that all made sense. Like his answer for, and ultimately he got the ball back in overtime. His defense got to stop. That might've played into it. He thought he's like, I felt like, you know, we could, we could go win it in overtime.

23:56And he was, you know, he was right. He got the ball back. He gets all the way to midfield in overtime. and you do think about whether the fourth down decisions too earlier in this game, you know, impacted Ben Johnson. So the Bears go three for six on fourth down in this game. Now they get a touchdown in the first half because they go for it on fourth down and then they get stopped another time. You know, that's a net win. You get seven points. Seven's better than the two field goals.

24:28Patrick Claybon:It's greater than. Then you have a goal line stop of DeAndre Swift on third down. That was a really fascinating sequence. When the Bears are driving late in regulation, it's their drive before that one. They get to the goal line, and there's a back-to-back play sequence with DeAndre Swift trying to get in, and then a stop on fourth down that could have possibly been a James Harrison type of play for Omar Spates. What were you thinking about what the Rams' defense was going to do there? Nick, just in general. Why was it— What did the Rams do specifically, I guess, if you saw anything in this game?

25:12Because their defense did a great job, too, and deserves a lot of credit for slowing down this Bears attack, especially on the ground near the goal line.

25:19Nick Shook:And this is a Bears team that runs pretty violently inside the five when they do commit to the run on the goal line. Like it's worked against other teams in the past. And, and this time around, they kind of twist Swift down short of the goal line by, I think two yards on second down third down. It looks like he's going to make it with the toss, but the bear successfully string it out. He tries to go for the hurdle. Then he gets blasted. Quentin Lake flies in out of nowhere. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see it right now. He gets strung out by verse. He tries to hurdle over the next defender.

25:45Nick Shook:Then Quentin Lake flies in out of nowhere and blasts him out of the air to send him down to the ground, still short of the goal line. He's gained nothing there. And at that point you're thinking, okay, if you're trying to commit to running the ball, you believe you can run the ball here into the end zone. You're probably out of options going on to fourth down. I don't know why Kyle Monongai wasn't more involved. He's the more violent runner of the two, but you can always, you know, hindsight's 2020. I thought the fourth down play was curious at best. It was, it was basically like what you would call a spacing concept where you get, you know, guys in kind of a bunch of formation, somebody comes inside and runs a little like hitch on the inside and you just fired in there in a tight window, but space was all over it.

26:19Nick Shook:It's a great play by the Rams defense. And at that point you've exhausted all the bears goal line plays, including probably the two point conversion, which is why it had such a major effect on the outcome of the game, because then they get down there with the miraculous catch and they can't do anything to go win the game. They just have to settle for the PAT, which is perfectly fine.

26:35Patrick Claybon:Yeah. It's one of those particular, like the granular aspects of that play because they pulled Jordan McFadden, the left guard on the other side on that shotgun handoff to Swift, where maybe you think he can go inside of McFadden's block. He trusts himself to be able to get to the end zone. Then he's got Darius Williams. He can't see Quentin Lake coming on the backside, you know, in hindsight. And looking at the broadcast view, you're thinking, well, if he takes Darius Williams corner to the pylon, I think DeAndre Swift gets there. But he sees the shortest route being there, not knowing that Lake was on the outside of his block in the first place, which is probably why he could have gone inside in the first way.

27:11It did feel like Detroit Lions. DeAndre Swift showed up for one play because if he just if he just didn't jump, if he just lowered his shoulder, like he's falling inside the one, I think at the, at the worst. Uh, but, but the way they defended that and, uh, yeah, there were so many defensive plays by the Rams during this game, uh, which kept them in it, but more than anything, it was the secondary, like Cam Curl gets, uh, an absolutely massive interception in overtime. Here is Cam Curl talking after the game with NBC.

27:47Nick Shook:Two picks for your boy, Kobe Durant. How were you all able to read Caleb Williams so well tonight?

27:52Patrick Claybon:Man, you know, just playing together, man. We trust each other, man. And, you know, we heard a little noise, you know, in the wind about our secondary. You know, they were hating on us, but, you know, we came to show them what we can do, man. We make plays back there, man. We win games for the team. What'd you hear? Man, I ain't willing to give them no air time, but we heard it, though, and that's why we play like that. We'll continue to play like that. That's me. I'm sorry Chicago I motivated the Rams secondary to play extra hard I thought maybe the Bears could exploit some size advantages and considering the Kobe Durant play with Cole Komet it appears that happened but the secondary made some plays we've been talking about the Rams DBs being especially the cornerbacks being potentially their Achilles heel all season I do want to show that Cam Curl interception in overtime because I think it's going to be a controversial play for a long time in Chicago after the game, Caleb Williams said that it was a miscommunication that he thought DJ Moore was going to flatten out the route a little more, but more went vertical.

28:56Some other people shookie saying DJ Moore kind of quiet quit on a route at the biggest spot in overtime. What was your, your read on that? Just a fantastic play by the way, by curl. Like that often is the difference in these games is like a defensive back or defensive player just like making the damn play uh but it was not a great dj more moment and probably the last moment of of him in a bears uniform yeah but i think this is a both things can

29:24Nick Shook:be true situation because let's think about it from dj more's perspective you're running that route it's a deep over and you're thinking all right this safety's here i'm covered like i'm not gonna get the ball because i'm covered whereas caleb's thinking flatten it out adjust to where the db is he doesn't so he does kind of quit on the play but also it's a great play made by the defensive back and it's just a bit of a misunderstanding between quarterback and receiver and sometimes that just happens it's just that it happened to be that it happens with dj more it happens with dj more a lot it really does probably why he's gonna be gone yeah it's on it's unfortunate because look that's i am more amazed by quarterbacks and wide receivers being able to site adjust just as a regular part of that's just how the nfl is played like on a every down basis.

30:08I'm more amazed by that than almost anything, like even more than all the athleticism. It seems insane that that works. It's always worked. So like, I, I get it that it's, it's a high degree of difficulty situation. But unfortunately I think Caleb had it read, you know, right. And it's interesting because they get the ball back there in overtime after a pretty regrettable drive by the Rams and they get it all the way to midfield. Caleb Williams is scrambling later in the game. Caleb Williams is making a lot of really great high level throws. They're at midfield at this point. I think Rams fans are thinking like this game is probably over.

30:46They need one first down to get in Cairo Santos's field goal range. And instead, they're kind of big game hunting. And that's how the Rams end up moving on.

30:54Patrick Claybon:Yeah. And Caleb's aggressive. That's that's why they were in this part in this game in the first place. You know, it has happened a lot with DJ Moore. I feel like the fact that it was route number 58 for DJ Moore and the accumulation of DJ is not a smallish wide receiver to be playing that volume of plays and not to make excuse for it, but just to highlight some of the factors that go into that where he's like you said, he's not necessarily looking. If he's looking, I think it's a little bit different but didn't see the ball, saw something different than Caleb did And this is a couple of plays after Caleb runs directly into Landman on a first down run where, you know, he's like Tebow powering it down the field for the Chicago Bears.

31:42Patrick Claybon:And I know, you know, hindsight being absolutely flawless as it always is going to be. Folks wanted some more runs there, but people wanted runs when there were passes. We could fix everything if we had a time machine. Caleb was, even though he threw three picks, I just have so much more confidence in him than I even did six weeks ago. I think he was just improving on a week-to-week basis. Some of the hole shots in this game, there was the one to Adunze late in the fourth quarter that he hit, but there were a couple like that on that one. Actually, Colston Loveland, by the way, Ollie Connelly texted me to point, make sure you give Colston Loveland his credit for blocking Jared Burse one-on-one.

32:21Sometimes tight ends can block the defensive end and it's not always a problem. And it's true on that play. And Caleb had a few plays like that to Odunze, to Moore, who did have five catches in this game, including a touchdown, to Loveland. But I did think a problem for them in this game was that the Bears receivers weren't always making the plays for him. I think there were two to three clear drops. Loveland definitely had one or two. And then there was probably like four or five more. That would have been tough, but you could have made the play for him. We'll talk about the Patriots in a second.

32:54Their receivers were making plays. The defensive backs for the Rams were making plays. Kobe Durant with two of them. They weren't easy ones. And, and yeah, like I'm not going to like attribute it to anything magical other than they just made it happen in the end in a game that could not have been any closer. And I think to your point, and I think for a lot of the game, it almost looked like the bears were the better team and the, and the Rams snuck it out.

33:18Nick Shook:Yeah, that is kind of what it felt like. but I also think that you're right in that they could have made some plays. I think about a deep shot to Luther bird and it gets broken up by a great play by a Rams defensive back. And you think, Oh, maybe a bigger receiver, a more experienced receiver, a stronger receiver makes that play. And that changes, you know, the course of the game, but it's also this game, you know, on Caleb's three interceptions, we just talked about the last one, but there was also one earlier where it felt like maybe there was another misunderstanding and it's a feather in the cap of Chris Shula, the defensive coordinator for the Rams for the way that he disguises coverage.

33:46Nick Shook:They come out showing man coverage across the board. and it looks like the receiving core and Caleb both believe that it's man coverage. And instead he goes to the corner route to Luther burden and Kobe Durant's right there, drifting back in zone coverage to pick it off and take away the idea of a possible hole shot. Because you think, all right, burden's running the corner route. He's got in, he's got the advantage on outside leverage over the safety, but he never sees Durant back there because he thinks Durant's running with the receiver who cuts inside from the outside and he's never going to be there.

34:12Nick Shook:And that's why it's beautiful that the Rams can get away with things like this, or at least to accomplish things like this defensively. It's just a feather in the cap of Chris Shula and an example of why football is so much of a chess match and such an in-game reaction thing. And for Caleb, being a second year quarterback, done so many great things. You talk about over the last six weeks, I go all the way back to the Raider game, way back in week four when he led them back. That was the first step in him becoming this clutch player. He did it so many times this season, but it is another example of why we have to remind ourselves he is only in his second year and he will learn from things like this.

34:40Patrick Claybon:There was a moment in the game where Collinsworth was maybe speculating that Loveland runs the wrong route on the adjustment there and could have taken up more space vertically to occupy Durant so that there's more freedom to get that ball to Luther Burden. But a great play, a great call by defense, as you said, Greg. One team made plays when the ball was in the air and the other did. Yeah, and look, I think Colston Loveland ended up suffering a concussion in this game. He did not finish the game. Ben Johnson did confirm that afterwards. you hate to see that and just shout out to Kevin Dotson and this running game and this offensive line that we'll have all week to talk about what they need to do in Seattle but the running game look it's not as easy as just saying you got to run the ball more and then it works you got to have the players to actually execute that on a day where they almost used no heavy personnel they were basically in three wide receivers the whole game, almost treating Jordan Whittington as a tight end.

35:47Or, you know, sometimes it was Mumpfield, but they did not go heavy. And for what it's worth, the few plays that they did, it did not go very well for them. And when they needed to run, their offensive line really road graded and just were getting four five-yard chunks. Let's wrap, actually, just giving the Rams some credit. and by listening to Sean McVay talk about what they were going up against today.

36:13Patrick Claybon:And that's what it's about. You know, there's no style points. It's about being able to survive in advance. And we were able to do that in a tough, hostile environment. And it was cold as s*** today. And, yeah, they got through. The West Coast team. They can win in the cold. Probably won't be as cold in Seattle next week. Let's take a break. I mean, the most surprising thing all Sunday for me was not the moment that Caleb Williams threw that pass. It was the moment that Eric got in my ear and told me, we've already gone 25 minutes. I was like, what? I feel like we've only been talking for like five minutes.

36:53Let's take a quick break, and we're going to come back, and we're going to talk about the AFC matchup between Drake May and that Texans defense.

37:10I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I'm Greg Rosenthal. And this is 40s and Free Agents. The games may be over, but the NFL never stops. This is my favorite part of the calendar.

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38:34Patrick Claybon:That's a hell of a throw. Third and four. They want Henderson up. They're telling the Texans we're throwing it. Drake Mason says, I don't care.

38:46Poor Zolak. I mean, Eric's just sick of hearing him. He's like, that's enough Zolak. That's Bob Sochi. That's the final score in a 28-16 Patriots victory. New England is moving on to the AFC championship game in Denver. It was all building up to the Jarrett Stidham revenge game all along. What a sentence. We can talk about that later in the week. First, we got to talk about this game. Similar to how Matthew Stafford's defense kept getting the ball back to Stafford, the Patriots defense kept getting it back with turnovers. CJ Stroud and the Texans turn it over five times, and you can only keep this Patriots big play offense down for so long.

39:41They did throw three touchdown passes, first quarterback all season to do that against the Houston Texans. It wasn't pretty shook on a play-by-play basis, but I was impressed by May and the receivers ability to make something big happen in spurts. You know what I mean? Like they just needed someone to make big plays and Kayshawn Booty and Stefan Diggs and May in spurts made enough of them to get out of there in just an ugly game there in the cold rain and the snow.

40:20Nick Shook:Yeah, I think we're establishing a bit of the theme with the Patriots postseason journey, because that was kind of the story of the Charger game as well. It's the throw to Hunter Henry to get the touchdown to essentially seal that victory. And we got that three or four times today, which was the throw to booty that you just heard that we just played there. But it was also an earlier throw to booty on third down where he forces it in a tight window for a gain of 17 or 18 that sets up the tight window throw to Stefan Diggs in the end zone for a touchdown. And yes, May is not lighting up the stat sheet.

40:46Nick Shook:He finishes with 179 yards, passing 16 to 27. But with those three touchdowns, you don't have to when you get short fields because your defense is playing better than it has all year. It's very opportunistic. And outside of your own strip sack issues against a couple of good pass rushes who are totally taking advantage of a rookie at left tackle and Will Campbell, you're not committing, you know, egregious turnovers that are costing you the game. And you're capitalizing on the most of the opportunities that you're getting. And that's what's gotten them now to the AFC championship game. The question is, will that formula stand the test of another week?

41:16Nick Shook:We'll find out. But through two games, he hasn't been stellar, but he's been good when he's needed to be good. And that's what's mattered most. Yeah, it's hard to evaluate because, look, he fumbled the ball four times, Drake May today, and lost it twice. I think two were really on him and two, you know, the pressure's pretty quick there from the blind side. The reason I kind of started with that play was ultimately this game was insane, first of all. I mean, there are eight turnovers in the game and they all happen, you know, I think in the first three quarters in those five turnovers. How many points do you think the Patriots scored off those off the how much the offense scored off the turnovers?

41:55Patrick Claybon:I believe it was zero points. Zero. They got the pick six, but on offense, they didn't do anything with any of them. The three touchdowns that they got were actually like full field, normal drives where they just suddenly popped up for like a 65, 70 year drive, which against this Texans defense, you'll take. Ultimately, I think what people are going to remember more from this game is what happened on the other side of the ball with C.J. Stroud. Yeah, just a cataclysm of errors where you wonder about the early, you know, we've had every single quarterback, I feel like, in the playoffs injure their hand on a follow-through at some point.

42:33Patrick Claybon:It happens early for C.J. Stroud. There was the wintry mix. There was the notable absence of Nico Collins coming into the game out with a brain injury. and then they lose Dalton Schultz, who was apparently the entire plane was constructed, game plan-wise, out of Dalton Schultz, and combined with the worst C.J. Stroud game since last week's worst C.J. Stroud game, it all led to this just kind of a waste of a great defensive performance by the Houston Texans, because you talk about all three of those touchdown passes. If I'm not mistaken, other than the Kayshaun Booty one-hander, because that was the only place anybody was going to get a hand on the ball, The Texans got hands on both of those touchdown passes.

43:15Patrick Claybon:Bullock got a full palm on the ball that was caught by Pop Douglas, where he makes a great adjustment late to catch that ball that was deflected, not like a full deflection, but enough that weather bothered some people. So he goes into the end zone there. And you could see Stefan Diggs' fingers impressing on the football because he's able to hold on to that touchdown pass where that was the level of difficulty that was required for the Patriots to score points today. And then, you know, Hunter and Anderson, I get like the frustrations with Will Campbell and the Patriots front. They're getting everybody.

43:48Patrick Claybon:They're doing up everybody at this point. And that's going to happen with Drake May. He's going to have deep drops and look down the field and try to make plays. Maybe not the team that you want to do that against, but they kind of checked that down late in the second. Right. They started just getting the ball out of his hands on some of the third and longs. I hear what you're saying, but here's just a little stat from NextGenStats. Will Anderson and Adafi Owe are the only two players in the history of the postseason to get three sacks and two forced fumbles in the same game. And they do have a commonality, which is, you know, this Campbell and May are the two kind of problems.

44:24And look, May, there might be a little bit of like a we might be on hand size in the cold weather. Watch a little bit with Drake May. You're rolling your eyes.

44:31Patrick Claybon:Yeah, if you get Bobbin out there or maybe Wimby and have them hold the ball with giant hands and have DeNeal Hunter swipe, it's not necessarily going to go. No, if you were going to get on the hand side stuff, maybe it's when he fumbles it rushing earlier in the game. They were playing in a slushy machine. Either way, it was tough to make plays there on offense. certainly you mentioned that Douglas uh fourth down play let's actually listen to that because I think that was a big early moment where Josh McDaniels and Mike were able to decide to go for on fourth down instead instead of just you know quote unquote taking the points against a great defense they decide to go for it on fourth down to his right two receivers to the right including Douglas may he's looking that way he's throwing that one Douglas makes the catch to the 10-5.

45:25Patrick Claybon:Touchdown. What I just said. Nobody on Pop Douglas. It increase him. You get him in bad coverage. Here comes the blitz. They go gun on fourth and one. Patiently, your quarterback in an MVP here waits. Douglas clears the underneath coverage, and then it's off to the races. He's been nowhere this last month, and Pop Douglas gets you on the board early. again so why do you gotta say he's been nowhere this last month I mean he's been in Foxborough practicing with the Patriots but you know he's like taking a shot at Foxborough fourth wide receiver I thought the game management like it wasn't perfect by the Patriots but I do think like the kind of routine that Josh McDaniels got in on a couple different drives going for it there on fourth, how they handled kind of the end of half situation, different situations compared to how D 'Amico Ryan's and the Texans handled a lot of their decision making and their ability to kind of stay composed and timeouts and pre-snap penalties, things like that.

46:35I think that was a difference. And I was kind of thinking about how Mike Vrabel said going into the year, like the first thing we got to do is find out how to not beat ourselves, like let the other teams beat themselves. And I did feel like at times on Sunday shook that the Texans were beating themselves.

46:48Nick Shook:Yeah, I think it's an identify your strengths going into the game and try to lean on that sort of situation for both of these teams. And if you're the Patriots, you're looking at that opportunity early and you're thinking, how many times are we going to get down here and really have a real shot at scoring a touchdown against this defense? Probably not very often. Even, you know, we talked about how they didn't cash in those turnovers for points. That's kind of an example of what they expected. But in that moment, early enough in the game, you feel yourself having a little bit of strength fourth and one.

47:13Nick Shook:We're going to get the right call. and you just narrowly get it past Kalen Bullock and ends up producing a touchdown. That's the risk that you take in a playoff game and you hope that it pays off. And it did for them there. But you're right. And I thought it was most telling in the fourth quarter not to speed ahead to that point. But there's like four and a half minutes left in the game. And the Texans are down 12 points. And D 'Amico Ryans is like, I'm going to punt. Because much like the Steeler game proved itself to be, the Texans defense probably had a better chance of scoring than the Texans offense did at that point.

47:40Nick Shook:Because he knew that was their strength, their defense. And it's, it is unfortunate because this is a defense that had they gotten all the way to the Superbowl had an opportunity to go, to go down among some of the best of this century. Like I'm thinking 2000s, 2000 Ravens, the O2 Buccaneers, the 13 Seahawks, the 15 Broncos that could have been this Texans defense, but because the offense was so bad, none of it ends up really being really mattering. It ends up being a footnote in the greater picture. This is unfair, but I think if they were those defenses, they would have been one of those defenses.

48:11You know what I mean? like that's okay you're talking about the greatest defenses of all time yeah that's an unfair it like the bar was so they had to be one of those defenses i think to go on this run but i think if they were one of those defenses they would have been one of those defense it's kind of you know it's like the line from the social network if you if you were the one that invented facebook us remembering those defenses if you were the one that would invented facebook you would have invented facebook like they still gave up they still gave up the three like touchdowns you know what i mean yes

48:41Nick Shook:Yes, but let's also consider the flow of the game and the fact that their offense was getting them nothing and they were constantly on the field. Like time of possession was only five minute different, about four and a half minute difference. But if you, when we watched this game in real time, it felt like the Texans were constantly finding themselves trotting back on the field, tasked with doing the same thing they just got off the field doing, which was stopping a Patriots offense that had the potential to put points on the board. I totally agree with you. The bar was like insanely unfairly high.

49:05And one of the big reasons the Patriots won this game was fumble luck. that when Daniil Hunter strip sack Drake made near the goal line early in the game, he didn't fall on it. Like he was so close. That could have been seven points. When Will Anderson had a strip sack in the third quarter, he didn't fall on it. And that's just that's more luck than anything. And so maybe maybe that's a that's a fair point that that it's complimentary. But it's not like they were on the field play wise that much. Actually, the Texans had more plays. The Texans made it to the red zone four times. The Patriots only did it once.

49:37The problem was, as you mentioned, Shook, that when they hit plays, like they kind of hit them in a row and they hit big plays. We actually have like a shot of, you know, Keishon Booty dusted Derek Stingley Jr. You know, I wouldn't say he dusted him for this touchdown, but his very first touchdown for Drake May in his entire career was from basically the same spot on the field, little in front of the 40. And he beats Derek Stingley clean and he scores a touchdown there. Kamari Lasseter got beat off the line of scrimmage. They didn't hit that shot to Kyle Williams in this game. But Stingley had another pass interference penalty.

50:14The bar was so unfairly high that they just had to shut him down. But they didn't force field goals is kind of what I'm getting at. They needed to force field goals and not give up touchdowns.

50:24Patrick Claybon:Yeah, and they got got. Good defenses can get got, especially when they're put in disadvantageous situations where there's the accumulation of dealing with what they were having to watch, the amount of times they were having to run immediately back on the field. Great plays by Drake May and this Patriots team. I think it's a little more difficult now to have, because we talk about those defenses of old. I think the game has changed to a capacity where we're probably never going to see that level of defense as well as keeping teams, we're going to talk 2000 Ravens going through that playoff run where I don't think anybody got 20 points.

51:03Patrick Claybon:I don't know that we're getting there again. That's fair. And the Patriots defense did score in this game, as we mentioned earlier. Let's actually listen to the pick six by Marcus Jones. I think this was the biggest play in the game because, you know, to bring it back to this point that the Texans are winning at this point. You know, CJ Stroud did put together a pretty good touchdown drive to go up 10 seven. So they had scored 10 points unanswered. They had they They really had Drake May looking rattled early in this game, but they get the ball back. The Texans do. And that is time for the Patriots to score.

51:39Patrick Claybon:CJ Stroud in a tight formation, two by two. Single back is Chubb. Play fake. Bootleg to the near side. Receiver fell down. And Stroud throws it up in the air. Intercepted Marcus Jones. Right 20, 15, 10. Jones is tackled by Hutchinson. Takes him to the pylon. Touchdown. He's in. Patriots. Look at it. It's Nets again. they're going nuts and you gotta love it pressure off the edge contact and the ball goes popped up right in the air and finally we get it off the deflection there's been three times in the first quarter balls have gone up deflected and on the ground jones picks it off and it rest is history just a brutal decision by stroud one of four for first half interceptions you know one of them the throw was a little high who was that off of higgins yeah no it was uh hutchinson hutchinson like that one was kind of you know a little on both of them the others were more about the decisions rather than the execution but it didn't seem like he had a lot of open receivers in this game a play like that though and you gotta you gotta find a way to dirt it or just take the sack yeah but it's also a microcosm of the texans 2025 season on offense where the operation was weird uh you have you had bryant in because schultz had already gotten hurt at this point uh he's coming across in motion the tackle steps back trips him so he goes down there was no one williams kind of pushed that he gets a little bit of an assist on that play yet but there were just so many plays in this texan season where the ball's being snapped and bounce passes to cj stroud where there's spin move handoffs to the wrong person the defensive toe guys getting weird touchdown opportunities where this was something that is happening all season for the Texans and the Patriots were able to take it.

53:25Woody Marks ran for 17 yards on 14 carries. They also had the Texans classic and illegal formation inside the five yard line that took a touchdown off the board on, I think the first drive of the game, like they have a defensive

53:39Patrick Claybon:tackle at fullback. So, so it was in, and you mentioned the injuries to Schultz and Nico. Don't forget Trent Brown, who's been so important for them, was inactive for this game. He got hurt last week. I was a little bit surprised he was inactive. And then Titus Howard, who was helping to replace him. I mean, he's a starter, but they moved the whole line around. He gets hurt in this game, too. So they're down a couple offensive lines. So there was a lot going against him. Let's actually listen to D 'Amico Ryan's asking or asked after the game about, you know, backing his quarterback. but the man that he entered Houston with.

54:18Patrick Claybon:No, CJ's our guy. I believe that he could come back out in the second half and flip it. I believe that he could play better, and he did that in the second half. He did play better. We had some positive drives there in the second half because I believe that he would do that, and he did that. uh let's also listen to cj stroud uh after the game after one of his if not most most difficult nights as a pro i'm a pretty self-confident person um i think uh you know when they started to pile up i tried my best to you know stay you know locked in in the spirit and you know realizing like you know i just got to be there for my teammates and they encouraged me a lot through it so i'm really appreciative of this team and you know them doing that because they don't have to but yeah it was it was you know not not easy um it's something that i'm learning from and you know i'm you know just grateful my teammates are picking me up i'm always a cj stroud believer he's gonna have to wear this this offseason shook kind of where where are you at with with stroud after this third season and especially like how it ended these last two weeks yeah i think you

55:26Nick Shook:have to look at his career in totality from this point because of how good he was as a rookie and you have to think what changed last year they had a terrible offensive line he had over 50 sacks taken. That was obviously a need for them going into the off season. They felt like they had improved it and it showed in the sack numbers. They cut that in half, but Stroud was still a little inconsistent when it came to just delivering. And we saw in some games, like the late season game against the chargers where they were good for the big play. Like if he had time to throw, he'd find a guy downfield and, and, you know, produce explosives.

55:55Nick Shook:And they did that a lot down the second half of the season. Once Stroud came back to replace Davis mills. But ultimately once Once you lose a couple of guys in a playoff game, you see the same offensive line regress back to where it was last year. And he has been under pressure for so long now that I feel like they've kind of broken him a little bit mentally and he needs an off season to kind of reset. He needs to be told that I can trust this offensive line and I don't have to go be the hero and make the superhero play that results in saw all the turnovers we saw against Pittsburgh and we saw against new England today.

56:26Nick Shook:So I think that's a big part of it too. But also I'm a little concerned about his accuracy over the longterm. Like to the point where Aikman's like his hands got to be hurt or something, because even on the touchdown pass, he throws to Christian Kirk in this game. It's on the wrong shoulder. Like he was missing placement all game. And he'd been doing that for a little bit, you know, against Pittsburgh as well. He had some bigger throws in that game, but it makes me think that is your greatest attribute is your accuracy. That's what made you special coming out of Ohio state. That's what made you special as a rookie.

56:51Nick Shook:If that's gone, you got bigger problems at hand. And unfortunately the season ends in this fashion. And now all he's going to have to try to tune out for the entire off season is, is he the future? the Texans need to look somewhere else when maybe he just needs an off season to reset. But yeah, it's not nearly as encouraging as it was two years ago. And I understand why people would question his outlook. Now. Look, I, I don't, I I'm shocked that, that Texans fans are jumping off. I mean, I guess I shouldn't be shocked. Every, every fan jumps off the quarterback when they struggle big time.

57:20Patrick Claybon:There weren't a lot of people calling for Mitch Trubisky yesterday, right? CJ goes 24 47 in this game. the context of what happened especially last year is important and and certainly this year it hasn't been perfect either but he's also just become an erratic quarterback in a way that like i believe he was like real deal truth and i still think he can because i one thing i'll always believe if you show that level at the nfl level you can do it like you can you can get back to that but there have been a lot of times this season when the situation actually i think's been been fine like within a game certainly within plays and that he has done things that have been confounding that he's just been more erratic on a play-to-play drive to drive quarter to quarter game to game basis where i'm i'm never quite sure like where it's coming and sometimes he'll get in a rhythm and you'll be like damn that's one of the best there it is that's one of the best quarterbacks in the league because he does the hard stuff really well but sometimes and i know the weather i think was a huge factor in this game i think the patriots defense has gotten way better as the season's gone on and they were a huge factor in this game but they need to go back to the drawing board because i i don't think it's i don't think you can just put it all on everything around him.

58:50There's something that was going on this year. I think even in good situations, that almost concerned me more than what happened last year. I think on balance, it was a little more unsettling. But for the Texans, they're not going to question anything. They're going to pick up his fifth-year option. He's contract extension eligible. What it might do is it just might prevent them from giving him his monster contract now, which frankly, I think is like that that's the breaks. It's a five year rookie contract. You don't have to get the contract after three years, but they might, they might try to save some money on, on giving it to him now.

59:24Like that's not to decide right now.

59:25Patrick Claybon:And I think that'd be preposterous at this point. And I, just like, I think the folks calling for Davis mills in this game, we're, we're a touch preposterous considering what CJ has been able to do. I think like looking at the evidence, what do you think is preposterous though? I mean, he it's a five year rookie contract as long as you pick up that fifth year option. I don't think it's preposterous to just be like, okay, go play. I think you're to get cute with it. You can save the money and go ahead and sign them to a deal. After, after a bad playoff performance versus saying, oh, all right, well, we're going to, we're going to play hard ball here.

59:59Patrick Claybon:Take this all the way at the end. And you look at a quarterback circumstance league wide and you're like, oh, well, the CJ Stroud guy is pretty effective. And, and now you're, you're a year behind the sticks and everything where like we, we, we saw, you know, Jerry do that with Dak. We've seen that with a couple of quarterback contract situations where why don't you just go ahead and get it done, especially in a situation where late in this game you have Hutchinson on Spillane and he's open by four yards. There's nobody around C.J. Stroud, and he leaves the ball six yards short. I think you could take – this was especially bad.

1:00:34Patrick Claybon:I think we can just junk this and trash it and not say that this is evidence to the long-term viability of C.J. Stroud as a football player.

1:00:42Nick Shook:I think if you're going to get that deal done though, you have to do so with the intent to try to improve the situation around him, because we also need to consider the fact that they made Bobby slow with their scapegoat last year and changed offensive coordinators and didn't, I mean, I guess they acknowledge that their offensive line was bad and they tried to improve it, but I don't think they, they got any better play call in his first year. Like that's not enough, right? So if you're going to do that, you got to marry it. And you got to also understand that I think he's dealing with some residual effects from what he went through last year.

1:01:08Nick Shook:And you got to bring him back to like reset and get back to who he is. if you're going to give him that contract. But you could buy low coming off of this game, which could help your franchise and your salary cap in the long term. Yeah, that's fair. But he does have two years left, to be clear. So it's not like they would be taking it down to the wire. We'll probably be hitting on this during the offseason. The crazy thing is, I'm looking at the next-gen stats right now. It's like they actually had a slightly higher success rate than the Patriots in this game. Now, obviously, Drake May goes for way more yards per attempt because he hits some big ones.

1:01:38But they both were going up against good defenses. I think kind of the takeaway is that, like, look, the Patriots also forced these turnovers. They forced the field goals. And I do think D 'Amico is such a good coach in so many ways, such a great defensive coach. You got to have answers on how to help your offense, and you got to have better answers in game management. Like, they blew, and this is on the entire operation, not necessarily just him. They blew two timeouts in the second half. They did that punt that you mentioned, which was the worst surrender punt I've ever seen. So someone went and checked.

1:02:12You're making a face.

1:02:14Patrick Claybon:No, I think Shook's right. I think the opportunities for Will Anderson and Daniel Hunter might have been more effective. No, no, it's true. It's true. It's just depressing, but it's true. It's fourth and 18. So the game's over like either way, but you're down 12 points with under four minutes to go. Someone looks for similar punts in under five minutes to go in a playoff game. Down two scores. They found one example, actually, which I found hilarious. Ron Rivera punted with two minutes and six seconds left, uh, down 12 in the Superbowl on fourth and 28. He was just like, ah, screw it. I'm getting out of here.

1:02:49Like on his own six yard line or something like that. He was just like fourth and 28. I'm not bothering. Uh, which is basically what he did. And you know, of all the moments though, like Mark's is fumble. I thought was maybe the biggest play in the game. Uh, because Mark's fumbles as they're potentially going in, uh, At that point, they had cut it already to, what, five points? It's 21 to 13 at that point. And they're kind of rolling on offense, and Marks fumbles in the red zone. So let's give some just quick shout-outs because I want to say goodbye to this Texans defense, and I just want to give some love to Will Anderson and Daniil Hunter and Henry Toto, who is awesome down the stretch this season, And Kamari Lasseter today with three pass breakups, he gave up one catch on seven targets.

1:03:42He was that dude. Jalen Petrie was really active in this game. Togiai, you're right. I was being a little harsh on the Texans earlier. This was a special defense. They deserve better.

1:03:54Nick Shook:Thank you. Thank you. Let's listen to one more Texans highlight. Why not? Eric, cut it. Let's get our money's worth. Texans frothing at the mouth on defense on this third down situation. May calls to the ball. Here's the rush. Here comes Will. The ball is out.

1:04:10Patrick Claybon:And the Texans have it. Aziz falls on it. A takeaway for the Texans. The Terminator strikes again.

1:04:19Nick Shook:I know it doesn't matter now, but in that moment I was like, oh, wait, they might actually come back. Oh, yeah. I thought they were. I thought they were coming back because that defense is just scary. That was Mark Vandermeer for the final time on KILT. But yeah, on the other side, to give some shout-outs there too, Caleb on chase on four quarterback hits in this game, forced a turnover. You mentioned that Milton Williams and Christian Barmore, they were living in the backfield. There were a lot of tackles for loss in this game. Christian Gonzalez, 15 targets. He was targeted 15 times in this game, which is outrageous.

1:04:51Only gave up 67 yards on those 15 targets, eight catches, but they were for short. Carlton Davis, who left with a brain injury, two interceptions, four passes defensed. And then how about Zach Kerr? Not a lot of Zach Kerr love. The defensive play caller. A good couple weeks here. You know, wherever Zach Kerr goes, like everyone is just questioning the quarterbacks after the fact, you know. Oh, wow.

1:05:16Patrick Claybon:It's like the Grim Reaper. I don't know. The Carlton Davis game, by the way. Those two picks were low probability and he got both of it. Sort of what I was getting at, too. Like, like sometimes it is about making those plays. If you think about the plays on the ball, like Stefan Diggs, Booty, Carlton Davis. They made the plays on the ball in a difficult situation. Stefan Diggs with a great quote. He was asked, how did he catch that missile from Drake May? And he said, with my hands. He also credited May for the pass. But he's worked on the hands a lot. It was an incredible catch. I'm Daniel Jeremiah.

1:05:57And I'm Greg Rosenthal. And this is 40s and free agents. The games may be over, but the NFL never stops. This is my favorite part of the calendar.

1:06:06Patrick Claybon:Yeah, mine too, Greg. Free agency, the combine, the NFL draft, pro days, trades. This is where teams reshape their future. This is where Daniel Jeremiah makes his money. On 40s and free agents, we break down every move that actually matters. From my draft evaluations, mock drafts, and team fits. To my top 101 free agents and how real rosters are built. cap space, contracts, and all the tough decisions included. You got quarterbacks on the move. We got teams rebuilding. It's hope season. Yeah, absolutely. It's hope season. We'll tell you what's real, what's noise, and what it means for your favorite team.

1:06:41Smart analysis, real conversations every week. I don't know about the smart, but definitely analysis. Listen to 40s and Free Agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

1:06:52Patrick Claybon:podcasts. First thoughts. Just very quickly, Patriots playing at Denver in the AFC championship game next week. That's going to be the earlier game. It's the same schedule as this Sunday in terms of timing. So it's a 3 p.m. Eastern, noon, best coast, Patriots at Broncos, bringing back some bad memories of the Broncos taking down New England in the AFC championship a couple times in the Tom Brady, Peyton Manning era. I think they're 0-3 in Denver all time in the playoffs. And then the trilogy will be completed. I feel like, no offense to the AFC, but it feels right that the Rams and the Seahawks are finishing the day.

1:07:40Because I think these have been the best two teams in the NFL all season. It almost didn't happen, but I think we've been leading here all season. And they will face off for probably the right to be the favorites for whatever that's worth in the Super Bowl in Santa Clara in a couple of weeks. I'll give you the floor shook of just like just some quick thoughts. We'll obviously be talking about it during the week.

1:08:01Nick Shook:Well, my takeaway was going to be shout out to the schedule makers, Mike North, everybody else in the NFL office at three, four or five park, because you got it right. You put the better game of the two in the later window. So thank you. Well, they don't have a choice. They go back and forth every year. So it's like it'll be a. All right. We're going to throw all that aside. I'll have another take. The take is I can't wait to see Ram Seahawks part three. Just because if you look at the way they played this season, I feel like the Rams stole the first one. The Seahawks stole the second one. We're going back to Seattle.

1:08:29Nick Shook:Place is going to be raucous in Matthew Stafford. Find a way to continue to sling it against this great defense. That seems to be peaking. The Seahawks look like the best team in football. Are they going to complete their run of the Superbowl or Stafford going to play the foil? We'll find out.

1:08:42Patrick Claybon:Yeah. A lot of attention being paid. Understandably to Sam's oblique where I think that will be a factor. I think he will need to play better. I think he'll actually need to play. Didn't even really need to play against the 49ers. And, you know, we'll see what Stiddy has, what Stiddy has in store for us, because it feels like the universe kind of robbed us of an opportunity to see the high variance version of Bo Nix, who could absolutely beat this Patriots team. He could absolutely lose this Patriots team, but man, it would be fun to watch. Yeah. Nick Foles, you know, still enjoying that Superbowl victory as he should did send out a note for the Broncos and their fans that it's been an emotional 24 hours.

1:09:24He feels for Bo and the team and he's sending prayers for a strong recovery. But a positive note going into the game versus the Patriots is that they struggle against backup quarterbacks in championship type games. Good job there, Nick Foles.

1:09:39Patrick Claybon:He brings it all back to the old Nick. I mean, why not just twist it in? Why not? No, it's a good job. And look, I'm higher on Jarrett Stidham than consensus. I have always been for what it's worth. It was that one game against the Raiders like four years, three years ago. Now that's good. Good. Everyone thinks he's just a total joke. It feels like you're positioning yourself for, I told you I was right situation. No, no, no. I think the Patriots should be favored by a little or whatever, you know, because of that. But I, as backup quarterbacks go, I'm trusting Sean Payton. He gave this man two contracts.

1:10:19He's a day one signing. And I'm going back to that preseason tape because I remember it, Chuck. I don't know if you remember. We were hitting some preseason recaps. He was the preseason quarterback of the year for us. We called him preseason MVP this year. Yeah. That's why you tune in in August, Patrick. I love it. I'm dialed up.

1:10:38Patrick Claybon:Summon that Jared Stidham sitting on the throne wearing his Patriots jersey picture that we'll be looking at all week. I'm going to love it. I can't wait.

1:10:46Nick Shook:Go watch that tape against the Niners. By the way, that's where the Super Bowl is going to be played. Maybe he'll be back there. Yeah. And if you think Bo Nix is a high variance quarterback, wait till you see Jared Stidham. That's a big arm athlete who's, I think he's going to go down swinging. It's either going to go great or go terrible. I mean, what Auburn transfer quarterbacks available? Nick Marshall out there? Another Auburn transfer quarterback. Why not? Just stack them all up. What's doing? Man, not the game that we expected, but I feel somehow like the game that this version of the AFC in this just totally weird wide open season kind of deserved.

1:11:22So the Patriots, the Broncos, the top two seeds.

1:11:25Patrick Claybon:Yeah, the committee got it right. Get to the end this year. We will be back, not on Monday night. Back in the feed, actually, I think the next thing you'll hear from us is a 40s and free agents episode where we go through all the AFC teams and what they need to do this offseason. and I'm enjoying this exercise and kind of just a quick look at the free agents, all that sort of stuff, and then back in this studio with the See You Next Tuesday crew, Colleen Wolfe and Jordan Rodrake on Tuesday. Big week ahead. Championship week. Coaches are getting hired. Shook's got to go right. Patrick's taking his tie off.

1:12:07We're getting out of here. We're down to four teams, three games. See you Monday.

1:12:20Patrick Claybon:We'll be right back.

1:12:49I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I am Greg Rosenthal. I know that, Greg.

1:12:54Patrick Claybon:We're teaming up on 40s and free agents, the podcast that owns the NFL offseason. This is where teams are built. Free agency, combine, pro days, trades. Every move matters. From my draft boards and mock drafts to my vaunted top 101 free agents and how rosters come together. Quarterback movement. Surprise signings. We'll tell you what it means and who really wins. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search 40s and free agents, and listen now. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.