Flag Football Extravaganza!

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3:08Welcome to NFL Daily, where we've got a flag football extravaganza. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the Chris Wessling podcast studio next to flag football expert. I don't know if she's going by that these days. Novice, trying to become an expert by the Olympics. More of an expert than me. Jordan Rodrique, who has helped to put together this program and our esteemed guests on this program. And we're starting the show with them. We've got Rudy Fernandez, defensive coordinator, assistant coach of the USA football men's national team. We also have Mike Daniels, defensive back, that does it all on the field.

3:46We're going to get into what both of these men do on the field. and obviously as a coach, but just to introduce for the listeners, this is a long gestating idea from Jordan here and from like a growing sport that we are trying to cover and wrap our minds around here at NFL Media. And I'm excited. Are you ready, Jordan? Yeah. Understatement, me being fired up. I've been so excited about this, you guys. I went to see some of the summer series last year. I've written about this sport at theathletic.com. I'm so excited about the potential here and then also about you guys representing us in the LA Olympics I know we got a long way to go between now and then when flag football makes its debut in the Olympics but I know I speak for a lot of people like millions of people internationally who are such big fans of this sport and our listeners and our viewers really love getting in the weeds on stuff I knew I could trust our listeners on being interested in this topic because we like to get granular.

4:47We like to understand things. We like to explain things. Greg really likes to explain things. And so we're so stoked to have you guys here today to help us understand flag football a little bit more. I'll start with you, Rudy, because you're a coach and I'm looking at flag football right now. You can just assume I'm a novice. And a lot of the listeners, I think, in general, are going to be relative novices. And so for those of us that I've started to get more familiar, I've obviously read it. I watched, you know, you guys destroy the pros a little while back. We can get into that. But like for novices, it's a big picture question.

5:26But what do you think like the new fans to the sport or people that don't know much about it should know about it? Like the first time they're kind of getting introduced to it. Oh, entertaining and fast paced. That's the big thing is how fast paced it is, how entertaining it is. And it's a game to just show off your skills, right? You're receiving, you're throwing, you know, the way you cover. It's a lot of fun. It takes a lot of skill to be able to play the flag football at a high level. The thing that I find so interesting about, like, the better you get at this is we know flag football is an offensive sport.

6:01Like, they love points. Mike, you're a defensive player, man. So I think for you, I know it's a point of pride that at this level, some of the nuances of defense and the skill players on defense are just as strong as some of the things that you guys see in the passing game. Yeah. So like you said, the biggest thing, the game is revolved around offense, you know, being excited and scoring a lot of points and doing everything like that. That's why as defensive players, we take a lot of pride in slowing those guys down and stopping them. And our offense is really, really good. So if we can get like one or two stops a game, nine times out of 10, like we're probably going to win that game.

6:40But we take so much pride in our craft and everything that we do and the schematics and everything, preparing for a team. Like we don't want a team to score, right? So if a team scores on us, like it's like, like we get really, really upset even when we're not really supposed to. Like Coach does a good job at, you know, keeping us calm. Like it's okay, fellas. They're going to score. They're going to do this. I hate when he says that because I'm so competitive. I'm like, no, they're not. Like, they're not supposed to score. Like, I don't care what the game is supposed to be for, whatever. I don't want them to score.

7:11Like, if we can leave the game 100 to 0, I'm happy. I love that. I'm curious for novices watching for the first time, what are a couple of things that people who are going to be watching your games, first of all, internationally here coming up, Worlds is in Germany coming up. You guys will be playing in that. but what people can watch when they're trying to know what they're looking at like what are some basics on both sides of the ball rudy we'll start with you what do people need to see to understand this sport so one thing one thing people need to understand when they watch it for the first time is it's not 10 yards to the first down right you start five yards from the end zone then you have 20 yards to get to midfield and you have four plays to do it and then four plays to score after that and then right before the end zone there's a no run zone where you have to throw the ball and that's that's always you know something that people that watch tackle football always ask you're in the red zone why aren't you running the ball well you can't right it becomes too simple to score from the one yard line with a run the dbs probably love this role yeah plays on the ball oh yeah yeah and it's i think for adults who have kids there's going to be a generation of people like myself because it's such a growing sport.

8:23You know, there's 20 million people playing flag all over the world now, and they're making it like a varsity sport, especially for girls in a lot of states and everything. And a lot of our kids are now growing up playing flag. And so we're starting to actually understanding like those sorts of rules. But I do think if you're just like an NFL fan who hasn't had much exposure to it as a player, Mike, like, and you're watching it for the first time, and we can get into, you know, what happened when you played the NFL players, but what are some of, like, the skill sets you think just from a first place watching it?

9:00Because I realized pretty quickly, like, how little I understand about what's going to make teams better, players better compared to tackle football. Yeah, so the biggest thing about, you know, skill set wise is there's a lot more not taking anything away from like traditional football, but there's a little bit more finesse that goes into flag football because the rules and intricacies are a little bit different. So you have to be, you have to learn how to be elite within the system of the flag football. So there's one, the biggest rule of them all, there's a lot less contact than there is in traditional football.

9:40So you're telling me as a defender, I have to cover in a very fast, very elite route runner with really good hands and a really wide range to catch a football how am I going to stop that guy with within planning the rules of the game so there's a lot of finesse that comes into it so there's a lot of like things you have to do in your craft to learn how to mirror somebody and be able to cover them you know to the point where they're not making as many catches or they're not as open as they should be it's it's tough that's why I said earlier like we take a lot of pride in stopping and slowing down these really really good offenses yeah you can't bump when you press like when you press you can't really press right right Rudy how does that change how you call a game as a defensive coordinator well you know going in we do a lot of practice so we know there's not a lot of contact yeah um so we just we work a lot on defending with our feet right just true fundamentals of football as a defensive back you do a lot of coverage with your feet staying in front you know on a man turn how you open your hips on the zone turn it's a lot of those things and these you know these athletes they put so much more excuse me so much work into getting better at flag football because a lot of them like Mike were so skilled at tackle and I mean Mike's a killer right he loves contact so he had to train himself and kind of almost learn to play defensive back in a different style to fit flag football Yeah, it reminds me a little.

11:09I very, very briefly covered Arena League football. And Arena League football was similar in the way that, like, if you can get one or two stops a game, it weirdly made defense more important than offense in a way. Do you ascribe to that as a defensive coordinator? Oh, yeah. Defense wins championships, right? I mean, it kind of did feel that way, though, too. If you had a defense and get two stops a week, as you're saying or whatever it's going to be, then that can be the difference. Because everyone has a good offense. I have to say, too, watching the tournament games against the pros, like some of the most fun plays to watch.

11:41I know you guys are such a powerhouse on offense, but there are some high profile interceptions in that game, for example, and just really great plays on the ball and great reads. And I can't wait for the listeners. We're going to break down some tape a little bit later and really excited for you guys to lead the way with us on that. When you are thinking about what Rudy just said, translating certain skills, you were a tackle football player. You played at collegiate level at West Virginia, Mike. And so translating those skills first, what that was like for you, retraining certain elements of your game, not just on the field, but away from the field, some of your offseason training, those types of things, what skills you had to develop and follow up as well.

12:23Rudy, like how do you continue to coach that all the way through this professional level? Okay, so within traditional football, there's a plethora of ways that you can cover a guy, right? There's a million ways you can skin a cat. So within playing man-to-man versus someone, there's a technique called off-man coverage, right? Which is what you see 98 or 99.9 % of the time in flag football because there's no contact. So you don't see a lot of guys crowding the line of scrimmage, right? So you're playing off for the most part. So it's still off-man technique, but there's no, like you said, at the top of the route, there's no bump anymore.

13:06So how do I slow this guy down when his momentum is already probably at 80 % to 85 % speed by the time he gets to me? Like what am I supposed to do? Like Coach Rudy said, your feet have to be, you have to have really, really good feet, really, really good hips, really, really good eyes. And you have to train them to respond a lot quicker than that of traditional football because flag football, the throws are shorter and quicker, right? Like in traditional football, someone may run a dig at 15 to 20 yards. In flag football, that dig is being ran at about 8 to 10 now. Because the field is so much smaller.

13:41It's so much smaller. So those routes are shorter and faster, and you don't have as many steps to make up in flag football than that of traditional football because one step can cost you. In traditional football, you may get a step or two. Ball has to travel maybe 20 to 25 yards depending on the route that's ran. You may have a couple steps to get back in the face with the receiver. And you can create a little bit of contact and, you know, get a pass breakup. In flag football, it's completely different. Like, how am I going to get a pass breakup without creating contact? And then another thing is, even if the receiver catches the ball and he's extended away from his body, I'm not allowed to come through and break up the ball anymore.

14:22I can't you can't do any of that once that ball touches his hand is either up to him to drop it for the incomplete pass or I just have to, you know, rely on putting a flag at that point. So it's just it's a lot quicker. It's a little bit tougher. But that's why, like I said, I always go back to we take so much pride in it and we we we hold ourselves to like a super high standard that, you know, we continue to thrive and we continue to get these stops and things like that. We make it look easy, but people don't understand what goes on behind closed doors to get things like that done. Yeah, we should take it back.

14:59I love that we just dove right into the schematics we're going to. But just for some context, why are you here in Southern California, by the way? So we're here in Southern California. Besides for our show. Yeah. Other than that, we're here. We have training camp this week in Chula Vista. So we'll be in Chula Vista till Friday. and then we have our summer series on Friday afternoon. We play Canada. Okay. So it should be a lot of fun. So it's, yeah, some exhibitions in the summer out here, and then you're prepping for the IFAF World Championships. That is in Germany later this summer. Of course, the LA Olympics, 2028.

15:37Everyone's seen, you know, the Jalen Hurts ad of him, you know, throwing the ball into the Coliseum, and, like, it's happening. It is two years away as an Olympic sport. Like when you first started in flag, could you have imagined that like you would be doing like the Olympics on home soil like this soon? No. So I've been involved in flag since 2003. I've been involved for a long time and I never saw it get into this level. I think I can speak for me and Mike we're living our dream in flag football something that the opportunities we're getting you can only dream of we're going to Germany to play in the world championship against many other countries best flag football teams it doesn't get better than that and are you the favorites?

16:31do you consider yourselves the favorites? do you feel a little extra weight with the USA football shirt on just that like okay that's our sport we better represent? I'm a little bit different. The way I wire myself, I go in as an underdog, mainly because it keeps me hungry. I'm going out there to hunt. That's just my mentality. I just want to hunt. I don't care what the naysayers are saying. I don't care if we are the favorites. I'm going to play as an underdog. That's just me personally. We can just talk trash and say you're not the favorites and just be like, watch out for that German team. They don't mess around.

17:06I love it because we saw this a little bit last year at the Summer Series, like some of the teams are still very much figuring out how the sport works. And some of the teams are watching you guys, watching your plays, watching your concepts. And so you're sort of outrunning innovation of your own creation here. At the same time, I'm curious, how much better have all these other teams also gotten as the sport has continued to grow? They've gotten a lot better. Yeah. A lot better. and, you know, the gap is closed, right? It was a big gap and the gap's closed because other countries are investing time, effort and money into the program.

17:45So they've definitely gotten better. And, you know, like Mike said, we stay hungry. We try doing new things every year because the truth is everyone's watching us and we get mimicked, right? So we're just trying to stay one step ahead. You know, it's hard to be a dynasty. That's why it's not very, doesn't happen very often. I love that word for you guys because it's very true, and I think the world is going to get to see it on a global stage here very soon right down the street. We hope you guys are playing at SoFi Stadium down the street. So do we. You know, I don't want to shade this team, okay, so I won't say, but one of the teams I watched last year competing against you guys in an exhibition was converted rugby players for the most part.

18:27So they take the field, and maybe minus you, Mike, because you played DB, and you're, what, 6 '2", right? Right. So that's what your roster page said. So that's what we're going with. And and but you're tall and, you know, you're very tall and not as slight as some of your teammates. Right. So I would say you're on more maybe on more on the bigger side of flag players, at least for Team USA. These guys were converted rugby players. They took the field against you guys. And it was like looked like it was shaping up to David versus Goliath, at least on paper. And then you guys just started running circles around them.

19:02And it was very clear that maybe some of the rugby qualities weren't quite converting over. So I'm curious, what traits do convert over the best? You've obviously found a way to apply your tackle skills and your abilities at the highest level in flag. But like, what are the traits that best carry over to the way you guys want to play flag football? so in my opinion there's like to be an elite flag football player there is a very unique set of skills that you you have to possess like offensively there is a there's different it differs from uh defensively so I'll speak more so on the defensive side of the ball like I think one of the biggest things that two of the biggest things that helped me transition over to flag football a little bit faster than maybe some other traditional football players like I said earlier the off man, like being able to cover someone playing off the ball compared to putting hands on them and pressing them.

19:59It helped me a little bit better because it's like, okay, I can't touch you fine. I'm used to it. Like I've done it plenty of times before. So I'm used to it. And also hand eye coordination when it comes to like stopping the offensive players, you know, for progression to be able to snatch a flag at full speed. That is a very unique skill. Like it's not, it's not something that can be taken lightly because in traditional football, how do you get a tackle? Like tackles aren't easy to make. That's a required skill to be an elite defender. So in flag football playing at the highest level against all these very talented guys, no matter what country it is, you have to possess a certain unique set of skills.

20:40Like you can't any, I don't care who it is. It can be U.S. players, international players. If you're just going to try to just walk into the sport and be like, oh, well, I've done good. And let's just say rugby. I'm pretty fast and I can carry a ball and I can make some people miss and do that and that and so forth. You're going to struggle and fly because you have to be elite within these set of rules, not rugby. So it's a little bit different, not to shade the NFL guys at all. But I think they had their wake-up call. So like, oh, this is a little bit different. Yeah, we saw. Like, those guys were telling us like, yeah, it's not what we thought it was.

21:19And that's like, that's all, that's the only message we want to get across. It's not what everyone thinks it is. I think a lot of people are just like, it's football at the end of the day. Yeah, it's the same. It's the same. It's a spheroid. A spheroid or object that we use. But the rules and little intricacies and skill sets are a little bit different. Like that's what separates the game from NFL pros and pro flag football players. Like that's the only thing that we wanted to get across. So yeah, that, that is, it requires a very unique skillset. Yeah. Rudy, you're on some of the talent ID stuff too.

21:52I mean, I know you, you're on the circuit, like you're looking for the next, the next guys and women who are coming up and playing the sport at the highest level. I saw a move, I think it was Isaiah Calhoun did it at the summer series. And it was my first time in person ever seeing a hip drop. okay it blew my mind i mean i remember the first time i saw like matthew stafford throw a no look pass i said some curse words right but that i don't understand how the human body can can do that frankly at full speed to to explain to the to the listener at full speed in order to avoid getting his flag pulled at the summer one of the summer series exhibition games last year isaiah calhoun was the ball carrier after a catch or an interception interception yeah and and um basically at full speed dipped his hips i compared it to like when motorcycle racers go around a curve yes like all the way to the ground but like his feet were just still going and and avoided the flagpole how do you id that like how do you find that i don't understand yeah so we're looking for for quickness fast fast twitch like it's really hard for like a rugby player to transition right but if you got maybe you know like a striker in soccer or a forward in lacrosse they already kind of have that fast which you know going so that's really what we're looking for is that fast switch and that flexibility because what what these guys do you know quick funny story when we were playing the pro guys luke keekly came off the field and he was like do you guys even have kneecaps because the way they were doing the hip drop you like and i was laughing on the sideline because He's like, if I did that, but, you know, it's what these it's what they do.

23:30Right. They practice it. And yeah, definitely. If you do a hip drop and tackle football, you're going to get your head taken off. Yeah. And then you hear a lot of popping because the kneecaps just burst into flames in that. Right. In that moment. That's amazing. In that game, do you think it was more from your perspective in those games against the NFL players? Do you think it was more the offensive players or the defensive players that were like struggling more to adjust? to match up with your guys? I think the biggest adjustment, what they had the most hard time with was with flag bowling. I think that was the hardest part.

24:05Yeah. We got, you know, we got Pablo and Vau and Hoosh. They're only about 5 '7", 5 '8". They're running full speed and they hip drop and their knees are like half an inch off the ground. And I just think they weren't like, they weren't ready for that. Immediately, everyone's going to kind of think too, because, you know, Now I think people understand how talented you guys are with USA football. And we'll see. Like, obviously, the tryouts for the Olympics team, that hasn't happened yet. That's in the future. But it seems like the best players are going to be flagged. And yet, you can imagine the idea that, you know, you would want to have some pro player potentially make the team or if they can earn their spot.

24:48Is there any players that stand out to you that have a skill set from the NFL? It's the type of skill set that translates to flag at all? I got one. Yeah. Brashard Smith from the Kansas City. Okay. So he actually played flag football, my program in Miami, when he was 10 to 14 years old. And like, he's unbelievable in flag, right? Like that kind of skill set, kind of like a scat back, like a Christian McCaffrey. Yeah. Maybe like a power back. He's a running back that played wide receiver, literally. So he's already kind of a little lower to the ground and stuff in the quickness. I'm a purist, though, because I like the guys they got.

25:28Right. I have a feeling like that might not happen at all. It just crossed my mind if anyone stuck out to you. But I feel like this is the part, this is the time where, I mean, explain this to us. You guys are narrowing this down. This is two years from now. And so this upcoming Worlds tournament, this is one of those tournaments that does qualify other international teams for the Olympics. although you all have already secured your birth in the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics. So like, what is the training? Like a lot of people don't know that you guys balance a day job, for example, with all of this training and what the timeline is.

26:02Can you kind of let the listener in on what they should be looking for, tentpole events and things like that coming up? Yeah, so in terms of training, just to get a little bit off topic, I want to say this before I forget. We love that on our show, by the way. Go for it. Before I forget. So what a lot of people I think take for granted is our preparation that we put into competing. We, I think the hardest thing for me and just from my perspective, and I'm sure my teammates can attest to this as well, but we really go at each other in practice. Like we really compete. And I think that like when you have iron shopping and iron, like no one's ever content.

26:46Like we may go out there and yeah, we may be, you know, we play with a lot of confidence because we prepare. We like we really go hard. And I've like I've played traditional football on a few teams. I had the pleasantries of, you know, making it to the NFL level and, you know, practicing with those guys as well. But when I tell you I've been around elite preparation and this is like the way we prepare is like top, top notch. like when we compete like you have a team full of competitors no one wants to lose and like I told you before I don't want to give up a touchdown I don't care regardless of what the game says that the offense is supposed to do I don't want these guys to score and then being that the juggernaut that our offense is like I feel like if we can stop them consistently we can stop anybody in the country so it's like when we like that preparation right there I love it because I'm very very competitive so I know that if I can if I can dial in on this and just really go at it with my offense and you know get some stops here and there and make those guys struggle when we go into competition it's going to be that much easier not saying that the other teams won't be prepared but man we're just give us give us your best we're ready it's all I'm saying it's like it's like the the NBA dream team when they were practicing up against each other like it wasn't going to get any harder than it was in practice leading up to those Olympics.

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