John Harbaugh's Firing Will Reshape the Offseason

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2:25Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're always ready for an unexpected podcast. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the Chris Wesleyan Podcast Studio with Jordan Rodrigue, the same woman who just 20 minutes ago left the studio to get ready and move on with the rest of her day. And then we called her back because I first learned from your text that John Harbaugh has been fired as head coach of the Baltimore Ravens. That comes from our insiders at NFL Network and many other places. And so we're going to do a show, a quick one about this. You will also have our great See You Next Tuesday show popping up in your feed on Wednesday where we go through some awards and some holiday cards.

3:11and that's fun too. But man, John Harbaugh, there just aren't many coaches in this history, recent history of the NFL that stayed in a job that long. He's the second longest head coach in terms of tenure in the league, but he's been the head coach of the Ravens for 18 of their 30 seasons. They've only had three coaches. March Abroda had a couple of years and it was Brian Billick who won a Super Bowl. John Harbaugh won a Super Bowl, but it's been a while and they decided this was the time to do it. I'll let you start anywhere that you want, Jordan. Well, we had thought that this was a really genuine possibility.

3:52We've been banging this drum on NFL Daily for a while. The timing made sense. The timing of it made sense. You have made the great point multiple times, Greg, that because the Ravens are a well-run organization and that they're a good team, that to look at the stallouts that seemed to happen to this team over the last couple of years and the lack of playoff runs and all those things, that change was necessary. And I think it's also true, and I know that our friend Daniel Jeremiah believes this as well, that wherever John Harbaugh goes next is going to have an incredible ripple effect across the entire NFL.

4:32even teams that currently have head coaches employed may think long and hard about this and also that whoever the Ravens go with next the process is sure to be thorough and they want somebody there for the long term. All great points. Let's start about the impact around the league because I do think that Harbaugh was the missing piece for this news cycle. And there were six openings before and people thought it was going to be less of a year. Mike McDaniel in Miami feels like the obvious guy who could be in trouble because they might be a team that would want to go after John Harbaugh. There are two where there's smoke, there's fire flares for me.

5:19You know, when the hair on the back of your neck starts tingling a little bit. And these are the two for me. One, that the team has not definitively come out and said or stated that Mike McDaniel is staying. Right. And we also have learned since that he's not going to be taking a huge role in the GM interviews to this point. The second was, you know, I reported this ESPN initially reported this and I confirmed this this afternoon via a source that Chad Alexander, the assistant general manager of the Jim Harbaugh led Los Angeles chargers with former under former Ravens, uh, assistant Joe Hortiz.

5:59Uh, they, they, he will be interviewing for the Miami dolphins general manager position. So if we're going to do the windy pointing, yes, a little what's going on in Miami. To me, the red flags point toward, first of all, the dolphins, I think rightfully going through all of their options here, which is if Mike McDaniel stays in place as the head coach, I think it's fair to say that's a big if at this point with Harbaugh loose. Yeah. Then they are looking at three candidates who he has worked with previously in San Francisco. Among those three, I believe Josh Williams to be the favorite. Now they're also looking at other candidates, including our, our guy, Alec Halliby, who we, we have a great deal of respect for on this show.

6:48Assistant GM of Philadelphia. The GM of the Philadelphia Eagles and John Eric Sullivan, who is an executive in Green Bay at this point. So to me, this Miami Dolphins team is doing a lot of what ifs and research with the opening of these interviews. Chad Alexander was not included in the initial announcement of candidates that the Dolphins were going to bring in to be interviewed by the team. This leaks out today, this morning, just an hour before it leaks that John Harbaugh has been fired by the Baltimore Ravens. Chad Alexander spent 20 years with the Baltimore Ravens. Well, it's just funny how many connections there are and how Michigan is at the center of all of it.

7:31because I think the timing of it, that it didn't take that long to happen, that it was not announced as a mutual parting of ways, at least by Tom Pellicero, Mike Garofalo, just to name our guys at the NFL Network, was announced as a firing. The Ravens didn't want to wait around either. And you just kind of, again, start connecting the dots. Jesse Minter is going to almost certainly be a candidate in Baltimore because of his history there. Potentially in Las Vegas. Who knows? Maybe in Miami. Steven Ross, who has really strong ties to Michigan. And obviously, John Harbaugh and Jim Harbaugh. And you're talking about Chad Alexander.

8:17Timing matters here. And the Ravens might not have wanted to wait around too long because some of the people that they want to talk to, Minter specifically, they don't want him to take a job elsewhere. and similarly, the Dolphins are getting their ducks in a row for many different possibilities. The interesting part about all this is there's no guarantee that they can close that deal and get John Harbaugh because he could have interest from other organizations. Giants reporters have more or less reported and hinted around in the last day or two that if Harbaugh were to become available, that he would be a person that they would want to talk to.

8:56Who knows if another Michigan connection, Tom Brady, would want to talk to John Harbaugh in Las Vegas. So Miami is in a really interesting situation where like there may be they're like, well, if we're ranking the options, McDaniels, maybe two or I don't know if there's someone else like a three behind Harbaugh. But we got to see if we can get Harbaugh first. And it's it's all going to be fascinating over the next couple of weeks. And frankly, even though, you know, I'm not happy for a guy to lose his job, but I'm kind of happy because I wanted to see another coach with Lamar Jackson. Number one.

9:28That's why I think it made sense. I just think you had to find another coach from it. And then number two, it's going to be good content, like a lot of backroom trading. There's like a lot of hiring, right? Because this is this is a situation where John Harbaugh 100 percent, even in ways that Jim Harbaugh did not possess. when he was looking into rejoining the NFL. John Harbaugh has the catbird seat here. John Harbaugh will have multiple franchises, whether they currently have a kid coach or not. Jim was kind of begging for a job. People wouldn't hire him. People were a little off-put by all of that.

10:04But now, John Harbaugh will not only have the open jobs, a couple of the open jobs coming after him, but also potentially jobs that aren't quite yet open and teams who have been considering possibly making a change at head coach for a while. I think this is fascinating. It puts Kevin Stefanski, previously considered maybe the top candidate on the job market this cycle, it puts him down a rung in terms of the potential. You might see teams like the Arizona Cardinals step up, by the way, who currently have in their employ a coordinator who once worked under Kevin Stefanski in Drew Petsing and runs an offense that it's very clear the GM likes and wants to run.

10:47And perhaps a change at head coach and play caller is something that comes into play there for the Arizona Cardinals. This entire, where I don't know that the Cardinals would have had a shot at Stefanski previously. This changes so much about this cycle so early on in the cycle. It's fascinating. I think you're right that the ultimate ending of all this and the biggest news to come from it is that Jacoby Brissett will continue, you know, with, you know, reuniting with Kevin Stefanski in Arizona. But that all could happen. Let's kind of go back to the Ravens side of it. So, it's obviously a seismic decision.

11:26The Ravens, when they fired Brian Billick, I know he's coming off a bad year, but he had won a Super Bowl not too, you know, far in the distant past and had had a lot of success there. I think had a really good sense of when the right time was to fire him. They were so close to firing John Harbaugh, according to all the reporting that was happening around the time that Lamar Jackson first got into the lineup. He had a 5 and 11 season. He had an 8 and 8 season. And I believe during Lamar Jackson's rookie year, he takes over a team with a losing record. He helps it. John Harbaugh puts his arms around Lamar Jackson in a really productive way.

12:09They turn it around in the short term. Harbaugh gets one more year and that turns into a really long and successful run with Lamar and Harbaugh together. They didn't win much in the playoffs. They won four games in the playoffs. They never won back to back games in the playoffs. They made one AFC championship. Harbaugh had started out his career winning a lot of games in the playoffs. I think it's a little unfair to just go off of that. And they are coming off a 13-win season, a 12-win season before this 8-9. I just think if you look at everything he did there, it just felt a little stale. They kept replacing the defensive coordinator over and over and over and over.

12:46And he's not a guy who is providing schematic advantages. And it just felt like a guy who had amassed so much power within that building. And yet, I think they're an organization that wants to be front office run, down from a strong ownership to a really strong front office. GM Eric DaCosta has done a good job. He's not going anywhere. To me, the real strong people in this organization are Ozzie Newsom and then Eric DaCosta. And so I think ultimately, as much as they want a coach to come in and be a part of this team for the next decade plus, that they would feel comfortable because they have such a strong organization in place.

13:24And that's why I've seen a lot of Ravens fans be like, good luck trying to find someone better than him. I think trust in your organization that sometimes great things end. Yeah. You know, it's like it's a great marriage. It was a great professional partnership. And it was it was 18 freaking years. I mean, that's a long time. Because of the strength of the front office. And it's not just the GM. It's also the tenure of the executive assistants who work right under the GM. It is also the scouting, the tenure of the scouting department. It's the language of evaluation and team building that take a roster and turn it into a team, into an ecosystem.

14:00That is what the Ravens have been so good at. It is the rare, rare case of, I think it's totally fine that there's going to be an overhang jam. I think, normally, I think it's a terrible decision for a team to make, to have, and it usually sets a coach up for failure, or at least a shorter leash, or some sort of power struggle in the middle of that coach's tenure. Maybe the coach wins, maybe it doesn't. In this case, this is a rare example of one where I'm like, fine. I trust who they're going to hire. I do. Yeah, I think it's a case-by-case basis when it comes to that. You're right, probably more often than not, it's not a great situation.

14:35But if for some reason the Buccaneers wanted to make a change this year with Todd Bowles, you would trust Jason Light to make the next hire. And when you think about Eric DaCosta, he actually hasn't ever made his head coaching hire, and he's not making it in a vacuum. I think Steve Bichata, the owner, is the most important voice in that room. But ultimately, Harbaugh was an inherited coach for DaCosta. And look, Ozzie Newsome is still there. Jesse Minter is a guy that Daniel Jeremiah quickly suggested. It's pretty easy just from the outside looking in to connect the dots because he was literally in the building.

15:10He also has the Michigan connections, you know, spending time with John, I mean, Jim back in the day. And he is one name that comes to mind. Any others that come to mind as potential candidates? Well, this is the one also where I said, you know, I think this ends up shaking Stefanski loose a little bit for maybe other teams, but I do think Stefanski could also be a candidate for, for this, because if you think about the quarterback and maximizing the quarterback and no, Kevin Stefanski has not maximized the half dozen, uh, like people that they just decide to throw at the quarterback position over time under that ownership group.

15:47And with that GM, um, I think that he, I think he's got this type of, um, coaching ability still in him. And I think that his, in terms of, um, his, his leadership ability and the sort of the tenor that he sets throughout an organization when he's with competence, um, we've seen it before he got sucked into the Browns black hole here. And I think he has, I think he could do it again. I like that offense with that quarterback, the Kubiak system. I like it. I think that's what it's all got to be about. And, um, I've never bought that Lamar Jackson was going to be traded this offseason. I still don't.

16:27I mean, in theory, it's possible that they could put some feelers out and see what they could get. I just don't think they're dumb like that. It's not the time to do it. If the time to do it would be, let's see Lamar Jackson with a new head coach, with a new system, with a fresh start. And if after a year or two of that, and you might say, well, the trade value will go down a little bit. It is so hard to find Lamar Jackson's. In the three seasons previous to this last one, he finished first, first, and second in MVP. I mean, what are we even talking about here? I just, it's in the same way that I don't believe, thought that they would maybe make a change, that they wouldn't be afraid to move on from Harbaugh now, just because I think they make moves that make sense.

17:16It doesn't make sense to move on from Lamar Jackson. You change the coach and you see if a new coach can help to improve whatever it is that you're not thrilled with with Lamar Jackson. I'm not trying to say it was an either or. I'm certainly not trying to say that. But if you're going to decide between the two, the GM clearly made his decision and the ownership group clearly made their decision. Your colleague Diana Rossini is reporting that a key sticking point in negotiations were Harbaugh not wanting to move on from Todd Monken, the offensive coordinator. I think these after the fact reasonings come out that they might, you know, make someone look better like that makes Harbaugh look better.

18:01who knows I I have a feeling like if they're coming into that meeting they kind of know what is the likely outcome of that meeting but but that was part of it too and it's something to consider that I think Mankin did a pretty good job overall he's a good coordinator he will he will be a really popular name in the coordinator interviews and he is getting a couple head coaching I think he is getting a Tennessee interview interview yeah this the fact that this came out though i keep we just keep forgetting about like the titans in the mix on all of this too by the way and they're once again rearranged infrastructure um you know what i think though um i think that that coming out is a somehow and i can't i don't want to trace it i don't know where it came out from or whatever but like that's john harbaugh saying todd's coming with me because if he's not willing to move on from him that's loyalty that's kind of saying like todd Ed Munkin's coming with me wherever I go.

18:56And it's painful. This is a guy who, like I said, had an incredible amount of power in that building and amassed it and maybe wielded that power. It happens. Anyone that's in a place that long is entrenched. He was like an institution. He's literally been the head coach of the Ravens almost the entire time I've covered the NFL and way more than half of the organization existing. And so, yeah, I think it hurts your pride when you get let go, essentially. And you want to make it look as good as you can afterwards. That Mike Preston article, to me, was, I don't know if it was the canary in the coal mine, but when I saw that, the Mike Preston article that was really burying Lamar Jackson and had a little bit of, they have to make a decision about Harbaugh too, but really posited as, hey, they should trade Lamar Jackson.

19:47It did feel like the moment where you can't imagine these two guys, Harbaugh and Lamar Jackson, coming back together. And I have a feeling we're going to get reporting about, you know, how that relationship happened. And these things happen in sports. And you know what? I'm not, I'm not worried about John Harbaugh. He's going to land on his feet. He's going to be fine. He'll be fine. Fine. I had thrown out the idea of Mike McDaniel to Baltimore because I would like to see that. There was a nagging part of me that was like, I don't know if the Ravens would actually do that. Is that a Ravens type of move?

20:23I don't know I asked around and he might not be the type of guy I think they want to have a guy I think he would be set up for success there a lot of people would because I think it's a strong organization you have Lamar Jackson but he might not fit the profile of the long term type of decision that you're talking about a guy that they want there for the next 10 to 15 years he might not be like what they look for in a Raven and a guy like Stefanski or Jesse Minner might a little more I would just say too on that point because I obviously I respect that opinion a lot. But I think there's a lot of people in the league there were at the time and there are still now who dramatically underestimate the stuff that Mike McDaniel is made of.

21:09Hey, now. I like that. And I agree. I agree. But they might be some of those people in the league that think that. Yeah, I agree. No, I agree. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I agree. It is really funny. Funny is the wrong word. but to imagine the world where that, that kick went through the uprights the other night. It's, it is. Do you think Mike Tomlin would still be working for the Steelers if that kick went through the uprights? we still have to kind of see what shakes out for Mike Tomlin after the end of the season too. I mean, like how about Ravens coach, Mike Tomlin? That's a joke. A thousand people just through their phones or their TVs or however they're listening and watching this.

21:46This is, this is what we talked in our other show, our show that's going to seem very dated now because we recorded it previous to this. It's coming out Wednesday. We'll edit out any of the Ravens parts. Eric's good like that. Eric's got it. Yes. But it really is like this beautiful poetry, often bittersweet that football is, that it was on a special teams play. The last play of his coaching tenure, the last shot of John Harbaugh walking into the locker room that any person has of his coaching tenure is him putting his arm around a distraught Tyler Loop and showing in that moment the stuff he's made of.

22:31And I'm not wholly convinced that Harbaugh is going to be a great hire. I think two things can be true. I think he can be a good idea for a team like the Raiders or the Dolphins. that the concept of John. Yeah, no, I think it's I think he's a good hire. I think it's OK to point out that he's 63 years old, that he is a different sort of coach where he's not bringing his offense, his defense. So it's really about the kind of building that he can create, not just culture, but literally the hires, the coordinators, everyone that's going to join him. And when you've been in the league a long time, like the people that you know the best or the people that have been in the league a long time.

23:18And sometimes that works. And I think he can bring a lot of stability. But when he came to the Raiders, look, he was a special teams coordinator. I mean, to the Ravens. He was a special teams coordinator. Your wish casting, where you want him to go next. Where would I want him to go? I just had a slip. You said the Raiders. The Raiders could work. Anyway, continue, continue. He gets the conference championship game his first year. Then division, division, conference championship wins the Super Bowl. I mean, that is an insane run. and I think he had a great example of what more owners should consider, which is not taking offensive, defensive coordinators.

23:53He had a great feel of the league at that time as a whole, as a special teams coordinator and who to hire. And he pulled all the right strings. He was kind of the perfect CEO coach. Can he do that again? I would just say it's going to be harder to do it a second time. Yeah, I agree. It's going to be fun, though. It is. A couple weeks. It is going to be fun. I think we've said enough. And yeah, I don't think the Mike Tomlin thing is over necessarily either. If he got blown out by the Texans, it's going to feel like more of the same. And based on all the reporting, it sounds like he might be the one that doesn't want to enter that final year of his contract.

24:29So we might have more in this space. But thank you for not leaving the building too quickly. I ran back. I was walking out and I saw it and I texted you in all caps first. And then I started running back. I ran into one of our great producers, Quab. and Quab was stopped still in the hallway looking at his phone. And I was like, we're probably going to do a show. Let's go. We like Aaron Sorkin walked and talked all the way back. I love it. And yeah, as I wasn't leaving or anything, but as I got your text, I get a call from another producer, Jason Kleiman. It's like, don't leave. We got to get this in the book.

25:02So we appreciate everyone for checking us out. Like I said, we will be back on Wednesday. And it usually is a Tuesday show, but it's a special one. We're going to be reading all those holiday cards that we got, and we're going to be giving out all the awards, a little bit of news, including that Cliff Kingsbury firing. Got some takes on that. We will see you then.

25:30March is here, and Uber Eats is delivering deals all month long. Score big savings on all the delicious food you need to fuel your sports fandom. Whether you're ordering in or hosting the whole crew, Uber Eats is serving up deals on wings, burgers, pizza, all from your favorite restaurants, plus snacks from top stores. Perennial powerhouse, underdog. However the madness unfolds, these deals keep it going all month long. Visit the Uber Eats app for all the latest deals and start saving today. You know how it's never really about where you're going. It's about who you're going with. The right people can turn any drive into a great memory.

26:06That's something Toyota really believes. They design vehicles around real life and real people, the ones who make plans happen and bring everyone together. Inside, everything's built with passengers in mind, comfortable seating, smart layouts, and space that actually works so everyone can relax and enjoy the ride. There's room for the people, room for the stuff, and room for the moments that happen along the way. Because when people are the destination, your ride is important. Learn more at Toyota.com and find the vehicle that fits your people.