Preseason Risers, Fallers and the Future of NFL Defense

21:36Jourdan Rodrigue:Robert Sala has been one of the best when he's coached defense in doing that. It's not that he can't blitz. It's not that he can't design some of these things we're seeing like the Jesse Minters, the Mike McDonald's do, but he has preferred in the past to stay. My guys are going to beat you up front and then our DBs can just, and our linebacker can just run wild and do whatever they do behind. Now, this is not going to be a front in my opinion, that's going to be able to do that. So he's going to have to change. We can maybe get into this in our next segment about what the future of that is going to have to look like.

22:06Jourdan Rodrigue:But Cody, I think he's going to have to change his stripes a little bit in order to get the most out of this group in the short term. Yeah. And I think it is even reflective in the secondary. I mean, they're wanting, you know, kind of we're relying on Jason Pennick to be, you know, Hafunga. And that's going to be a problem, I think, going forward. And, you know, the other thing, too, is like, you know, Greenlaw really hasn't played that much, but they've really missed that guy next to Fred Werner to let him kind of be the alien that he is and just go go make plays they just don't have that right now and they're hopeful that d winters will be that guy who a sixth round pick from two years ago that you haven't heard too much about and hasn't played that well when he has played that they believe the light has turned on and he is one of those guys and this is why i do like covering training camp because you can you can hear at least the excitement that they they think he will be that dude and he's going to definitely play over their rookie third round pick nick Martin.

23:00We'll have to wait and see, but they do have some rookies that'll play right away like an Upton Stout. And I love UT and Upton next segment because I think talking about whether Salah's defense still makes sense in 2025 is something fun to get to. So we're going to take a quick break. We won't talk Arante Ursary, just like

23:24Jourdan Rodrigue:maybe killing Cam Robinson. I like getting rid of him. We won't talk Chiefs offensive line. We did that already, Josh Simmons. I'm thinking Seahawks, Seahawks, run game. Oh man, we've hit that a lot. We'll see you after the break.

23:44Jourdan Rodrigue:For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tremphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tremphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required. Tremphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur.

24:24Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit TrimphiaRadio.com. Lowe's knows Sundays are for football. So tackle your home improvement projects by Saturday and earn your Sunday with great deals on LG and Bosch appliances. Select Ego, DeWalt, Filtrete products, and more. Then once your to-do list is done, get ready to kick back, relax, and enjoy the game. Shop in-store or online now and earn your Sunday with help from Lowe's, official partner of the NFL.

25:09ChatGPT can do more than answer questions. It can help you get real work done. ChatGPT work is built for bigger projects with multiple steps. You bring the goal along with the information it needs, like briefs, notes, files, feedback, calendars, datasets, or project plans. Then ChatGPT can help turn all of that into something useful, an analysis, a tracker, a deck outline, a prototype, or a workflow you can keep shaping. It can also use approved apps, connected tools, files, and browser contexts to help move the work forward. and you stay in control. You give direction, review drafts, approve actions, redirect the work, and choose the final output so you spend less time sorting through busy work and more time making progress on the work that matters.

25:58Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode. Available on Plus and Pro plans.

26:09Jourdan Rodrigue:Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts. Why did I search the internet for answers to my cold sore problem? Now I'm stuck down a rabbit hole filled with images of alarmingly graphic sores in various stages of ooze. I can clear my search history, but I can never unsee that. Don't go down the rabbit hole. Amazon Health AI gets you the right care fast. Healthcare just got less painful. This is Lala Kent from Untraditionally Lala. Ready for my hot take? One thing the math really ain't mathin' on lately is international travel. Think about it. Why sit on a plane for 14 hours to get to Lake Como when you could be having the time of your life at Caesars Republic in beautiful Lake Tahoe?

26:56Jourdan Rodrigue:Caesars Republic Lake Tahoe has it all. The splendor of Lake Como without all the low-vibe nonsense that comes with international travel. No long flights, no passport hassles, no currency exchange, and, best of all, no jet lag. So why not skip the stress and head to Caesars Republic, Lake Tahoe? It's all there. Amazing dining options with restaurants like Wolf by Vanderpump and Gordon Ramsey Hell's Kitchen. Incredible entertainment and nonstop excitement throughout your stay. With some of the biggest names in music already lined up for this year's Lake Tahoe summer concerts. Spend your days enjoying the pristine lake and natural surroundings and your nights enjoying the incredible restaurants and world-class casino.

27:37And don't forget, all this is right in your backyard.

27:40Jourdan Rodrigue:Caesars Republic, Lake Tahoe. Book today. Back on NFL Daily. You can check us out on YouTube. Like, subscribe. It really helps us out. Leave us a review on iTunes as well. We were talking about Robert Sala, and I think using that as a starting point, do you think his style of defense, for instance, fits in what's going on in 2025, or has kind of defensive trends, not made it obsolete, but made his type of defense less popular? I do think that the static nature of the wide nine, like we see with Schwartz and the Browns, what Quinn was trying to do at really in Dallas, I think that is kind of dying out.

28:31I mean, Schwartz really had to pivot. This was a defense that dominated a couple of years ago and just running man coverage. Man coverage is kind of like you're going to tap out at some point, right? It's like think about you're running a track meet for 17 games. You might be able to do that for a while, but then we saw when they got into the playoffs, they had a pivot to cover three, get a couple injuries. So I think with Sala, the one thing that he has an advantage on that him and Ulbricht were able to build with the Jets was actually start building some quarter structures. You know, your quarter, quarter, half, they ran a ton of cover six, which is quarter, quarter, half.

29:05So explain that to the listener. What does any of that mean? Okay. So all quarters is, is you essentially are taking all four of your backfield defensive backs and you're capping all the verticals of the receivers. So there's typically five receivers that are eligible. One of those is going to probably be a running back. And so we're not talking empty. We're talking back in the backfield. So your four eligible receivers that are really on the line, those guys are going to be capped by defensive backs.

29:30Jourdan Rodrigue:And it's why they call it an umbrella coverage or a shell. Because if you're capped, what do you mean by capped? They're going to make sure they're on top of the verticals. Yeah. So you're not, it essentially is, in the old style of NFL, cover four has always been really a third and long coverage. It's becoming more nuanced now because teams are starting to really lean into quarters. One of the reasons why a lot of coaches don't like quarters is because it is teaching intensive. You have to actually have tags. You have to have certain ways that we're going to match routes, and you have to work those matches.

30:05And a lot of guys don't have the time, nor do they have the knowledge. I know that sounds crazy, but quarters is not, this is not college football. This is the NFL. And there's a lot of guys that have not run quarters outside of like third and long.

30:17Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah. And so when you play like this and what we've seen is in the emergence of this type of system, Vic Fangio, but then also, you know, the, you know, Jim Johnson and the old Sean McDermott, Ron Rivera days, you know, those guys will always say, we were doing quarters before Fangio was doing quarters and all this stuff. And so now you're, but you're really seeing Fangio popularize this because basically what it does is it builds a dome over all of the unfolding layers of the passing game. And you see, you hear people complain about like the shell and too high is ruined passing and like all of these things.

30:52And they really are less big plays though. It is a thing.

30:55Jourdan Rodrigue:That's why this has become a popular thing. What, what Robert Sala had done in New York. and it's also why Jeff Ulbrich became such a popular coaching hire, was because of the different ways that they were building that hyper-aggressive wide front that could still cut off outside zone runs and screens that have become very, very popular in the league. Because if you think about it this way, if your defensive line is automatically playing wider, those players are able to cut off the wider parts of the run game and the wider parts of the passing game, wide zone and screens. and screens. So now you're going to a defense that is trying at least.

31:33Jourdan Rodrigue:I don't think he has the personnel this year. He's trying to do both. Play wide up front and dynamic in the pass rush, which means you can't design as much pressure because your guys are more matching routes and playing in the backfield. You called your sub stack match quarters. So this style of defense gaining popularity in the NFL, Oh, it's good for you. Good for business. And nobody was explaining it. Yeah, you were ahead of the game. How did you see that coming? I mean, well, because this is what you had to do in 2010 to defend all the Uber spread that was hitting, that was hitting college football.

32:10And then also the quarterback run game is also an element. But the big difference is the quarters that you see at the college level and even at the high school level is not necessarily the same at the NFL level. And I will even go on further. Like Vic Fangio isn't even a quarters guy. He's actually more of a rotational cover six guy. So he has cover two on one side, right? Which is a triangle. Think of it, think of it like in geometry terms. Cover two is a triangle. You have a corner in the flat. You got a linebacker overhang in the seam. You have a safety on top. Quarters is a box. You got a flat, you got a seam, you got two cap defenders.

32:47So you've created a box. And so what he's done is he's actually, and one of his innovations is really playing everything from a two high shell. Yes, he's really a cover three guy. Most of the Fangio adjacent guys are all cover three guys. But the way that it mirrors when you have a cover two and you can rotate it, right? I can rotate it to the nickel or the passing strength, or I can use it to kind of get a zone double on the single receiver to the backside. side when you do that everything looks like weak rotation cover three which means we're dropping the safety away from the nickel so you get this muddying of quarterbacks have always looked at the the weak side safety for their indicator well if that guy doesn't move I don't have an indicator and so the indicators are now at the corner and there's no quarterback that is looking at the corner for the coverage indicator so it's just an extension and all these guys especially like Like with Asala, you go back in 2018 to 2019, they hopped on that quarters train really quick and kind of ran with it.

33:46They run a little bit. It's not the same. The Ravens system guys, so the McDonald's and the mentors, they have kind of picked up the Fangio system because that's all stemmed from the 1989 Saints with Jim Moore Sr. Right, and I mean, there's all this stuff that feels new all has antecedents to like what you're saying and Jim Moore and Buddy Ryan and even Buddy Ryan's stuff, he would say he was stealing. And that's back in the 80s and early 90s.

34:13Jourdan Rodrigue:A lot of pressure now is coming from Rex Ryan, man. It's crazy what's coming out these days. Right. So it's like it is amazing to think that's how football has evolved and worked. But what's a team that you love, Cody, to watch now, whether it's 2024 and coming into 2025, in terms of what they're doing schematically and just like specifically with their players, mentioned the players too, that like you think is on the cutting edge and really is about like where defense is right now and where it's going. I think the most fun defense for the past three years, I think if you ask a lot of NFL fans, I'll probably be like, it's gotta be the Vikings, right?

34:55They're just blitzing everybody. Face melter, 5 ,000 defense, right? Flora's just over there, just like -

35:00Jourdan Rodrigue:Face melter. It's actually not. The best defense to watch, if you are a scheme nerd or you want to watch just some wild stuff on Sunday is to watch the Arizona Cardinals. Right. But that's partly because they don't have the talent. Right? I mean, in part because they're just throwing crazy stuff. If they had better talent, do you think they would be as crazy? They haven't changed. But they haven't had the talent until this year. Well, but even so, like if you go back and really watch what Gannon was doing with the Eagles is a lot of the foundational stuff of what they're trying to do. and then he goes and he hires Patrick Tony from Florida, who is, if you don't know who Patrick Tony is, he is basically a cult legend in the coaching world.

35:41Like he's a schematic nerd like me, and that's why we're friends. But he can do some things in the secondary and design secondary stuff, and it fits the quarter structures with what Gannon was trying to get to. So Gannon, see, Fangio wants to run his six and eight stuff. So he wants to rotate the cover too, whereas Gannon was like I just want to play quarters and so what they're doing is true split field coverage where I mean they did this if go back and watch the Chiefs preseason game and they're running a five man front they're running robber coverage so they're dropping a safety down they're overlapping the corner to get into a cover too they're doing it in the preseason they're doing it in the preseason

36:21Jourdan Rodrigue:because they don't care they don't care by the way the whole thing of like you never see interesting schemes or everything is completely vanilla in the preseason that's not really that true anymore I mean, it is sometimes, but it's also not with other teams. It's true for some offenses, but I posit that it's not true anymore for teams that don't give a hoot because they will run their stuff because they know you're not going to see it. When I talk to coaches around the league, and they're trying to discern between what quarters is and what something different type of zones are, they can't because everything looks so similar.

36:54Jourdan Rodrigue:And these are at the top of their level coaches. I mean, Jesse Minner is dropping out defensive tackles to pick off Stetson Bennett in the fourth quarter of like a meaningless preseason game. It meant a lot to Stetson Bennett. Yeah. I'm just saying. But that's the thing. They're so good now that it's okay that they're showing things because they think that you're going to try to just play your offense true anyway because if you're a quarterback and you're having to do all of these things pre-snap and you're a coordinator that's having to do all these things pre-snap that we've talked about before that you have to do against the Cardinals.

37:24Jourdan Rodrigue:I remember a couple of years ago when Matthew Stafford was like, I didn't know what the heck I was seeing with the Cardinals. So we just ran the ball 50 times. And if you can, you should. But that's the thing about that defense that's interesting is they don't care if they're showing you their work because they don't think you're going to be able to see it. They think you're just going to have to play your offense regardless because they don't think you're going to see it the way that they're actually showing their rules. So what is it that they do that's so difficult? And do you think it can take the step forward, the Cardinals specifically?

37:56Because, you know, the argument would be against them is like, okay, year one, they were just, yeah, it was interesting, but they weren't good. And then year two, I think they punched above their weight, but ultimately they were like average. I think they punched above their weight in terms of the talent that they have. And they added a lot up front this year. Are they going to be as crazy this year? and like what is it that gets you going that's so crazy that works? Because ultimately they still were boom or bust. Like I said, I think they overachieved, but I'm also not, they weren't one of the 10 best defenses in the league last year by pretty much any like advanced metric.

38:35Jourdan Rodrigue:They ended the year. 14th in DVO, they were playing well. And like I said, like they weren't playing with great players either. So that's part of it. Well, I think they've kind of built, they knew that they needed to get the front structure right. That's what they needed. So they bring in like Claes Campbell to work with a Walter Nolan. Right. And then you have, you have Josh sweat who now they have a pass rusher. You have these hybrid, you still have a Zavian Collins. So you like what, what ended up when they got there was it was like an Island of misfit toys is that they had all these like hybrids that they didn't really know where they fit.

39:08And so what do you do? You build a hybrid defense around that. What they're doing really essentially is it's, it's a build a three, four. so they have three safeties across the back side with buddha baker really being the you know the key cog in all of this and then they can blitz him they can drop him to the boundary they can drop him to the field they can go and they can you know run him and they can run that regular tampa structure they can run quarters they can run cover three they can do almost anything out of that three high structure which is another trend that we're seeing in the nfl you know we've mentioned mentor on here several times, but third down is typically when we're starting to see these three high structures, but they play it from base down.

39:52So first and second down, they are going to be in some sort of a five-man front. There's going to be one linebacker sitting there, and you have no idea where Buda Baker is going to end up. And even what they showed in the preseason, you have no idea what the final coverage structure is going to even look like. So we can drop him down, and you think, okay, we know now what we're getting into, but then the whole back end is like an amoeba and it just like morphs into something that you don't even know. And so I really think, yes, there's a genius out of desperation, right? But I do think that there's real structure here.

40:28It's not a gimmick. They believe in it. And he's got one of the, you know, Gann has got one of the youngest staffs. And I think it's refreshing that the younger generation, you're seeing these younger DCs get shots early. They're not getting shots in 50 and 60 when they're just like, I ain't messing up because I just got this job. It's like now, hey, let's do some weird stuff. Nick Rallis is 32 years old and he's had that job, what, for two years? So he was 30 when he...

40:54Jourdan Rodrigue:And I will say, there's also this growing trend and I wonder if you could speak a little bit about this too, Cody, is a lot of these young, especially younger DCs that are coming up and Chris Shula is one of these guys in LA and Jesse Minter was talking about how he studied so much offense And he sat in so many offensive rooms. Kevin O 'Connell and Brandon Staley used to do this to each other. They used to go into each other's meetings and try to sit. But Nick Rallis, the first time I ever met Nick Rallis was when he was in an offensive coaching incubator, like studying offenses. And so I think what they're seeing is how fast offenses are moving, how you can't, you can, you, you have to come up with a defense and a plan that is going to be a catch all for all kinds of rapidly moving and shifting offensive cycles.

41:38Jourdan Rodrigue:okay, the run game, quote unquote, is back. Heavier personnel using multiple tight ends, even a fullback. We didn't talk about Seattle's run game, but Robbie Owens, like starting to use the fullback back in like these throwback Shanahan, which we say throwback now, but what was it, 2019, 2018? But like these things are coming back. So you have to have a defense where it is going to anticipate what offenses are doing and where offenses are going. You have to understand that in order to build what will be a catch-all for regardless of where you're at in the team building? Well, I think too that this generation, starting with my generation, I'm about turn 40 here in January.

42:17My generation was probably that first generation in the early 2000s that was like introduced to the spread. And then so our entire coaching careers have been through the spread lens, whether it was in college and then we see that spread explosion really in 2018 when it broke football at the NFL level. And these guys are used to like, hey, we're already outmatched offensively. How can we figure this out? So a lot of these guys are willing to do some different things and think outside the box. And then like you said, there's been a trend really within the last five, 10 years of offensive coaches going and picking a really talented young defensive coach and bringing them over and sitting them in the office and having them tell me, hey, how are they matching this?

43:04What are the rules for this? How can we take advantage of that? And so, offenses have accelerated, but they're also pulling that knowledge back and bringing it back into the defensive room, and it's just recycling. And so that cat-and-mouse game is just kind of continuing. There is, I don't think, a fear, but do you think there are these think pieces out there? It's like, defense is making a comeback. That defense is ahead. Like, how, A, do you think that's remotely true at all? And, and be like along with what Jordan was, was saying in terms of right now, the trends on offense being back to getting like a little heavier, a little more run heavy.

43:41Like what do you think defenses are going to do this year to help counter that? Well, I just think historically the NFL goes through very distinct cycles and this, these are predictable. We can see this. You can go all the way back to the seventies when Arnsbarger and the 53 defense, This was basically the birth of the 3-4. Then offense is advanced. Then you have LT. We have the move tight end from Gibbs. So we have our H-back and 12 personnel packages come in. We have, you know, you keep going further down. And then now we get into where defenses have essentially become a bunch of hybrid positionless players.

44:17We talk about it all the time. It's been there. But, like, we really truly are now. The one thing about football that will remain the same. So you talk about will defense ever, you know, just dominate like it did in the 90s when we were playing Neanderthal ball in three yards in a cloud of dust. But I don't think it will. The spread's won. The NFL won't let it. No. No, the spread won.

44:37Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah, passing won. Passing won. Analytically, we know it's more efficient than running the ball. We now understand how to manipulate space. They know how to motions. And the way that the rules are set up. I was going to say, if not, the NFL just changed the rules. Right. Exactly. I'm not joking. game and that's obvious they've done it throughout the history well offense look i'm a defensive guy and i can i just from from experience people love offense that's what puts but i love defense you know i'm a glutton for punishment so yes i'm a defensive coach by trade so yes but the offensively i think the way that this cycle always works is that the defense comes back, right?

45:19They figure it out. And then the offense is forced to then do something new. And so I think defensively, one of the things we've mentioned it, the quarters kind of waned last year, but it didn't wane in the fact that people weren't running it. It just came up and like more people are running these, I call it targeted coverages. It's the Fangio system where you're moving a cover to around, whether it's to the nickel away, what you're building is backstops and zone doubles. So I'm going to cap your best receiver. But then I'm also, if you want to run him across the field because you don't want to run him vertical, I'm going to create a backstop away from him.

46:00So that's where these quarter structures comes in. And I think that's one of the things that people don't understand about defense. They just think too high shell is either cover two or it's quarters. And it's not. Like Fangio isn't a quarters guy, but he transitioned into one. And why? Because what our offense is doing right now in the NFL. They're getting tighter and tighter and tighter. One of the biggest things last year was what's called a wave concept. So you essentially run a vertical to the middle of the field and then you take two deep crosses and you run them across. It's the old Yankee or the old cross country concept that's been around for football forever, but they're adding an extra guy.

46:37And so how are you going to defend that? Now we got guys in quarter structures, make sure that you can have guys on both sides and they just tilt. They just tilt. They can cross-key it and so they're picking it up. And so that's why I think quarters will come back. I think man coverage has slowly gone down. And then two man, nobody runs two man anymore. Explain what two man is. Two safeties high, man underneath. What kills two man? Running quarterbacks. What do we have on almost every single team? A quarterback that can scramble. And so you don't, it's like less than 1%. And also like it is interesting that the value of like man cornerbacks who are, that's the best thing that they do feels, which is weird because that's, that's what you think about with cornerbacks.

47:18Like their value has gone down. Like those sorts of players, I'm trying to think of who's a good example, like a Carlton Davis, like is probably less valuable than he would have been, you know, 15 years ago.

47:30Jourdan Rodrigue:And I think part of it too is because these coverages can morph around what, how routes are unfolding on the field. that automatically actually increases the importance of quarter of cornerbacks who have played in a match zone system or a system that at least has pattern matched or a system that at least, which means that you are understanding how, where the route is going to go. You're not playing a space on the field, like a zone would instead you're playing where, you know, the route is going to go. And that's where I think this is different that you're, you're having defensive players who can do more than ever that are smarter than ever that can fit, have seen more football than ever that can fit in these like ellipses around the back portions of fields in accordance with where the, the offense is trying to attack them.

48:17Jourdan Rodrigue:And I think that's why in part you saw a reaction and in part, because the nickels were so small, um, you saw a reaction to teams doing the thing that I just said, Matthew Stafford said he told Sean McVay to do, I don't know what I'm seeing run the damn ball. And that's exactly why. And that's exactly why you're seeing this spring out. You only get maybe a year or two of this before the next thing comes out. The next offense breaks defense thing comes out. And waves happen so fast. And I think the increase, the improvement of technology is a part of that. Like we're talking about coaches that are sharing so many things with each other now where it used to be like I carry my playbook strapped to my body, you know, into my house at night because I don't want someone else taking it from me.

48:59Jourdan Rodrigue:Now, everything's available to watch and take. And these guys are running these clinics with each other. They're bringing college coaches up to run clinics with them as offensive coaches to sit in, to hear what they know, to pick their brains. Kind of like what we're making Cody do for us here today. I know we appreciate it, Cody. Yeah. Before we let you go, because we're, we're wrapping up here. It's interesting. You know, you mentioned kind of like, okay, you got the five down linemen, five up front, and there's like one linebacker on the field. And that is something I'm curious to hear your thoughts on just linebackers right now.

49:31Not that they're an endangered species, but it is really interesting to think maybe more than any position on defense over the last 20 years have evolved and their importance has on one level minimized. Cause there's just less of them literally on the field that can do everything. But man, it's important to have that one guy for Jesse Minner to have that day on Henley. That's the one linebacker on the field. So you watching football and film, I'm like, who do you love to watch? And maybe talk a little bit about how that position has evolved and becomes so difficult to find the right person to do that.

50:10Well, I think a great example of where we are in modern linebacker play is the commanders. Because what you have is a Bobby Wagner who is a traditional Mike linebacker. He is an A-gap fitter. He's going to plug the run. He's good enough in coverage that he can give you a little bit of space in the middle of the field, but you don't necessarily want him always guarding somebody. And then you have right next to him is Frankie Louvoo, who, is he an edge? Is he a linebacker? He can be whatever you need him to be. You know, staying in that, you have a guy like Zach Bond, who essentially was an old school Ted linebacker.

50:45Ted has a T-E in it, meaning he just lined up on the tight end and played essentially a glorified nine technique. So he was outside of the tight end and he was just a wall builder for the defense. And then he comes to the Eagles and Fangio's moving him around like he was moving Andrew Van Ginkle. And so I think what you see with these off-ball linebackers and really where we are because of this hybridization of everything, you can't just be a four down front anymore. You have to be able to get into odd fronts. You can't just be a single high coverage team. You have to run some of these two high structures.

51:18And I think what you're seeing is you have to add value now as a player. We're in an add value now. Like you have to be able to be an off ball linebacker, but then can you pass rush? Can you add value or is your added value in the coverage? So you can run, you know, you have to find ways to add value. And I think the linebacker position, they're kind of now two rooms. We have our kind of hybrid guy that can go down and he can pass rush. But then we also have our traditional linebackers that you still need in the game because they still have to fit the A gap.

51:48Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah. I, when I was on my training camp circuit, like traveling around the camps, it was interesting. a coach I talked to described it as this giant, like combating math equation, right? Where if you already automatically know that the way that offenses can play now, you have a running back who can work out of the passing game and also run the ball. That's a plus two, one trait, another trait, two ads. It's a plus two. You have tight ends who can block and be a mismatch in the past game. That's another plus two. You have receivers who can block and also be a mismatch in the past game. That's another plus two.

52:21Jourdan Rodrigue:So if you're not at least a plus two player at a skill on offense, you are not going to be on the field for as many downs. They're going to try to take you off as much as possible. Conversely, on the defensive side, if you cannot become a plus two player, whether it's the positions you can play or the phases of football that you can contribute in, you are not going to be on the field at this point in football. And you're just trying to match the opposite side's numbers advantage, which is always the dance that happens when you're scheming and game planning against people. Unless you join the Raiders as a linebacker, who I think Pete Carroll is just like lining up like, not plus twos, just guys that are old school from the 90s.

52:59He's trying to bring it. No, no, that's harsh. You got me thinking, Jahad Campbell, I mean, is that plus one? And Zach Bond, I think, is sort of a prototype now, which is crazy to think about based on where he was a year ago at this time. But how do you think those two guys together, they're going to deploy those two. What can you do with two linebackers like that? Well, that's kind of one of the trends that we're seeing is that, okay, we're a nickel-based defense, meaning that we're going to have five DBs on the field. Traditionally, that's with a four-down line. The penny front, which is a 5-1, which is what we talked about with the Cardinals, that's kind of people are starting to move away from it because those edges aren't dynamic enough.

53:43And when I put 5-1 out there, you know, Like when our penny package is out there, you know, here's a certain set of things that we can do. And here's a certain set of things that we can't. So it makes the offense easier. But if I go with four down linemen and I'm in a regular traditional nickel, but then I walk one of my guys down, whether it's strong or weak, now we're into a five-man front, changes the blocking, changes the protections. Is he going to drop back out? Is he not? Are you going to blitz and then drop him? Like there's a million different things that now a variable. So if a guy like, you know, McVay is going to run everything through 11 personnel, but, you know, your receivers, you know, also a fullback.

54:22Okay, well, that's great.

54:23Jourdan Rodrigue:But what if we did the same thing on defense? And I think that's why you were starting to see, too, like another trend is safety collection, right? Big nickels back from a decade ago. It's back. We're going to have three safeties on the field. So I think that part of it, now Fangio has two guys that he can do that with, and you don't know where they're going to come from. It's also just that humans are getting better at doing everything athletically. I feel like that's underrated. It's like my theory that almost every NFL game has a play that's better than any play that happened in the 70s. It's just like the humans are advancing.

55:00I mean, you look at basketball, you look at tennis, you look at football. A lot of the things that you just said about football, like to me, you could say about basketball, you could say about tennis, where everyone can now do everything. It used to just be like, this is his style of play and it's positionless and it's offense, defense. And it's just like, we're getting better. It's exciting. Cody, it was a pleasure to have you on. We gotta do this again. My brain is, it's expanding. It's gonna explode from everything I learned here on defense. And I love having you on. And we gotta make this flight worth it.

55:32I mean, you came all the way out here for a little old NFL daily. Go check out. I can tell.

55:38Jourdan Rodrigue:Yes, you're I can tell you're very pleased with yourself when you why we're going to football practice, man. OK, you went like, come on now. Like, what are you what are we doing? He told me that he came out for NFL daily. So I'm just taking you're the host of NFL daily. Of course, he said that to you. I loved it. So, yeah, make it count. Check out Cody's sub stack match quarters. Join the 20 ,000 subscribers there for Match Quarters. I'm Substack and he's got the Let's Talk Ball podcast as well. It was a pleasure. Jordan, you will be back with me next week. But the next time you'll hear from me will be Sunday night.

56:14Yes, the last of our weekly Sunday evening recaps with Nick Shook.

56:23I'm going to miss it.

56:25Jourdan Rodrigue:I know. I like the vibe. They're good vibes in that. I feel like you start off and you're excited for the preseason, then you're ready for it. I don't know what it says about me, but this year, I think I've actually enjoyed the preseason more than ever. So we'll be back Sunday evening. Football's back.

56:44Jourdan Rodrigue:When you're a maintenance engineer in a beverage manufacturing plant, you keep production lines moving and quality on track because there is no room for slowdowns. with Granger's vast selection of high quality motors, sensors, belts, and hard to find parts. You can get what you need fast and all in one place. So nothing gets in the way of getting the job done. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. Honey, Felipe sent another photo. From Argentina? How? With T-Mobile, of course. Mira, he's video calling us. Hola, familia. Did you get my photos?

57:24We did. They're so pretty. Here to share every moment with T-Mobile. Enjoy data roaming at no extra charge in 21 Latin American countries. Switch now on the T-Life app or T-Mobile.com slash connectate. Qualifying plan required not for extended international use. You must reach out in the U.S. and primary usage must occur in our network. Visit T-Mobile.com.

57:44Jourdan Rodrigue:This is a stunning story based on the hit true crime podcast, Betrayal. He was a tall, handsome police officer, the man of her dreams. Caroline knew right away he was the man she would spend her life with. But then she got a text that changed everything. The man she loved was a severe sex addict, having affair after affair with so many different women in his cop car while on duty. I implore you to watch Betrayal Dirty Secrets, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. Some people use ChatGPT to answer questions. Others use it to get real work done. With ChatGPT work, you bring the goal, Plus real inputs like briefs, notes, files, feedback, data, and project plans.

58:27It can help turn them into an analysis, tracker, deck outline, prototype, or workflow you can review and keep shaping. You stay in control, giving direction and choosing the final output. Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode. Available on Plus and Pro plans.

58:46Jourdan Rodrigue:There are exciting things happening at your local CVS. shop new extra big deals with extra care every two weeks no coupon needed plus get access to exclusive sale prices personalized deals and more as a member extra care is the way to save at cvs join for free online or in store and start saving visit your local cvs store or cvs.com extra big deals for this week's deals this is an iheart podcast guaranteed human Thank you.