QB Island Casting Call + Training Camp Begins!

18:52Steve Wyche:He has been one of the worst quarterbacks in the league both years in terms of the sacks that he is taking. And it's one thing if you're Lamar Jackson and you're avoiding these big hits, but running the ball eight to ten times a game, which he has done both years, it really didn't change. He gets hit. He doesn't avoid the big hits. He doesn't necessarily avoid it like the second injury that he had. And to review, he plays two games, hurts his knee, comebacks after a couple games, and then hurts his hamstring, comes back a game after that and dislocated his elbow or hurt his elbow, which that's just bad luck.

19:32Steve Wyche:Misses four games, comes back, and then gets thrown on the ground on a pick six and hurts his elbow again, and that was it for the season. But those last couple of games that he played, which were against the Seahawks and the Vikings, were eye-openers, I think, for him and Washington, and that's why they sat him for the rest of the year because they were bad offense. I mean, they were not good. That's why they made changes. He was absolutely lost. And one of the things that I think he got into a bad habit of was what you talked about trying to just make plays. And it wasn't as effective. Like he just wasn't the same runner.

20:06Steve Wyche:And maybe that was partly because of the injuries that he was playing through, although it was the case the first couple of weeks. But it was like defenses knew the book was to keep him in the pocket, whatever, however possible. There was a lot of good athletic linebackers that were kind of watching him and trying to take away what he did. So the way he won his rookie year, I think it could be something that is important to him long term, but it's not necessarily sustainable long term.

20:33Jourdan Rodrigue:I used to really roll my eyes hearing people talk about this when I was covering like superhuman quarterbacks as a beat writer, Cam Newton being the number one example here, which is, you know, everyone would always say, ah, man, like take the check down. Don't be Superman when it's like, how could you ask Superman not to be Superman? Well, also Jaden Daniels is maybe a third of the bill. He's tall, but he's like slight. He's a little lean. And then the other thing is it, it was so annoying because in parts they were right because when Greg Olson was, was fully healthy and was the friendly target and gave an answer, a quick answer to the problem.

21:13Jourdan Rodrigue:When you sent multiple linebackers after the guy, when you're trying to keep the cup around the quarterback, as they say, and contain him in the pocket, when you're trying to basically put your foot down on the end of the cape, you know, or like, you know, in Incredibles, be the jet engine to the cape, right? And like, that is what defenses will try to do. And then getting a Christian McCaffrey, getting the quick, you know, very, very quick answer mismatch player, which is why I like your point about the tight ends, but it's also the quarterback really, really internalizing that that is a problem that is a problem that is solvable immediately within the offense and having that be an answer for him and an option for him it's it's hand in hand in my opinion quarterback has to make the decision but also the coaches have to make that available for him and go get stefan digs i mean go go get a player like that because he immediately brings respect and credibility defenses have to game plan for him that it would help it would help i i i don't like their receiving core and look I spoke to a coach who's on that staff who said Jaden Daniels covered up so many of our mistakes as a rookie that when he was hemmed in the second year all of those mistakes blew wide open and those were things that as an organization they overlooked and that's why they've tried so hard this offseason at least personnel wise and some of the moves on the coaching staff to fill in some of those gaps.

22:39Steve Wyche:Yeah. So he, did you guys, did anyone watch quarterback yet? I have not watched. So on my flight home, I was like, I don't have time to watch the entire series right now, but I did just watch the Jaden Daniels sections and then fast forwarded. And so I watched Jaden Daniels on quarterback. You don't learn that much about him. I was a little, like it was a bit of a missed opportunity. It feels like he wanted to be on the show. His mom is a huge part of his life. It's his manager. It's his agent. She's at every game. She's, she's a big part of this show as well. And it was like, okay, they want to position them.

23:12Steve Wyche:And you think, man, what a run this kid has been on from Heisman trophy to the rookie year that he had. And the difference between how high he is flying coming into doing this show to this, the frustration of just injury after injury. And to be fair to him, he's a small guy. He's never been hurt before. He's never missed time with injury. So people saying like, that's a concern. It is a concern at the NFL level, but he's never been hurt before. But he watching the show like he's doing the scout team late in the year. It does. You don't learn a lot about him, which I think like if you're going to do the show, let's give us.

23:48Steve Wyche:Did you finish it? Yeah, I did. But like if you're going to do the show, give us a little more of yourself. They just didn't like I didn't get a great. You don't get a great sense of who he is other than he's a quiet, introverted guy. Doesn't seem to have like a lot. He seems like a young guy. Like he seems like a very mature football guy who's still just a kid. And that might be who he is. Yeah. After all the time Matt Ryan played, we're like, is this kind of it? Yeah. Like, yeah, that's it. Like, Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson tried to change. And, of course, all of a sudden, he's so chill. I think it makes him a great quarterback because he's so chill.

24:20Steve Wyche:And even Terry McClurener Debo, who, like, showed up to his birthday party, his surprise birthday party. But you got the sense, like, he wasn't super tight with everyone. They all really respect him, look up to him. But it's like an older team around him.

24:33Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah, he's really tight with Bobby Wagner.

24:35Steve Wyche:Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you're going to be tight with someone, that's someone to be tight with. But I think it's just, and they were talking about it, it's just like, that's who he is all the time. But he did seem like a guy, to me, that would be built to overcome some of the adversity.

24:48Jourdan Rodrigue:When you said, that's it? That's it. I had the Arrested Development line. Her?

24:55Steve Wyche:All right, Jaden Daniels. We'll see if he gets back there.

24:59Jourdan Rodrigue:I bet we will be talking about him, And that's part of the point of this exercise. And for that reason, I'm, I have to nominate Jordan Love here. Okay. Oh yeah. Jordan Love, first of all, we were cut down, you know, on our numbers on quarterback Island, a storm hit or something. And we only had a few, we had a few fewer spots. We finished with eight.

25:19Steve Wyche:It's a greater honor to finish the season on quarterback Island than to start.

25:23Jourdan Rodrigue:But I will say at the very end of last season's debate, we were going back and forth between Jordan Love and Caleb Williams, and it was a really difficult decision to make. And in part, we put Caleb Williams on the Island because of some of the late game, late season heroics, the thrill factor, and also the, the protecting the football, avoiding sacks. Also things, by the way, that Jordan Love does very well. Jordan Love did very, very, very well last season. We have talked so much about Jordan Love this on this show and everybody has been talking so much about Jordan Love. And so for the purpose of this exercise, I kind of wanted to talk about him maybe in a different context or, or present a question or a thought exercise that maybe we haven't done on the show.

26:11Jourdan Rodrigue:And what I'm really curious about with him is, are we fairly talking about his performance relative, first of all, to what is happening on the roster around him, which we've done, but also within what this offense is itself and what his partnership with the head coach and play caller is and what they have accepted and agreed to with each other that what that this system will be with Jordan Love as a quarterback because great it's a great framing because I think he is like the the dream quarterback if I know I talk like listeners I know I talk about the Shanahan tree a lot I know that they're running the NFL it is what I have gotten my education in okay it's why I talk about it so much but I think that if all of these guys, he is, he is like their dream quarterback.

26:59Jourdan Rodrigue:And I say that because they've all had a guy who can be agreeable with what they want to do as a play caller in the sense that they're not fighting with them, Aaron Rogers style, or even sometimes Matthew Stafford style about the, the, the play calls. They're not trying to make the coach change the offense to compromise with the quarterback. They all want that guy, right? They want to point and shoot. They want to, they want progression passing. They want answers on the field for the quarterback. through every single one of his reads, depending on any type of defense that they can break the rules for.

27:29Jourdan Rodrigue:Right. Jordan Love can do that. Jordan Love can absolutely do that. Jordan Love actually can do more than that because he also can extend plays and it's not extending plays in a way that is, um, is, is flustery or sporadic or freestyle, or even like, sure, we could say the absolute thrill ride of a fourth, you know, a fourth quarter, fourth down, fourth and 15 touchdown path. You know what I mean? Like the outliers, people are not remembering so much about with Jordan Love. What I think Jordan Love does though, is he takes your pencil after the coach has done drawing on the page, he takes your pencil and he continues drawing using the lines that you already started.

28:12Jourdan Rodrigue:And I think that is what is so exceptional about him that makes him this perfect fit and a double-edged sword for him because when the coach is designing answers for him and he and they're deciding philosophically this is how we're going to play and suddenly the answers are gone and then there is no clarity about the rest of the answers aka the receivers room tucker craft is injured the number one person that this offense was going through tucker craft was gone by week 10 last season the rest of it was a complete lack of clarity in the receivers room and then jordan love. There's some murmurings that he was a little banged up.

28:48Jourdan Rodrigue:He was banged up at the end of the year. When you take away the answers that you basically have, have agreed to, um, use for your entire system and then redo them mid season, you are not going to look comfortable all the time. And then teams are going to pressure you more, which they did at a 30 % rate between weeks 10 and 17 when he was, when he was in the game and, and he struggled. And, and so that to me is the context with which It's a double-edged sword. He's the perfect quarterback to do with this coach, wants him to do and more and elevate it truly. And then the double-edged sword is when all those things aren't working, then what do you do?

29:26Jourdan Rodrigue:You have to problem solve better.

29:27Steve Wyche:And yet, like he was the best quarterback in the league, arguably the second half of the season, along with Drake B. I remember texting you at the end of the season, like, man, my reservations on Jordan Love are a little bit up right here.

29:39Jourdan Rodrigue:Well, there was that pocket. There was that pocket, right? in the like sort of I would call it the meat of the season where he dazzled he dazzled yeah there were also times and we've talked about it and again you got we're thinking like this this is not a framing of we've all watched you know we've watched his tape we've talked about it we've talked about the stats we've talked about the advanced analytics we've talked about all of it yeah my point is I think that for all of this sort of outside commentary to still finally is to is to really think about this in a way where I think that there is no ceiling on what this guy can do.

30:12Jourdan Rodrigue:Truly.

30:13Steve Wyche:No. I mean, the last three seasons, if you just look at the second half of the seasons, the Toyota-thon thing is real. He is the number one quarterback in the NFL in terms of DVOA in the second half of the season, including last season. I think last season, he was a different player. He did prevent mistakes a lot more. He's been the best third and long receiver. As exciting as you can imagine, Caleb Williams is on those big plays. Like Jordan Love has hit more third and long plays than anyone else. And I think that speaks to what you're talking about in terms of taking what Matt LaFleur did. And that's despite not having Kraft and the running game not being as good.

30:51Steve Wyche:I think it was the first time we really saw him elevate. And unfortunately, like the injury happened and that hurt. You know, it was a couple key games. I mean, it was just a game and a half. But that moment and then the playoff game, he was okay. the numbers look great but he wasn't amazing in the playoff game and so you forget about him a little bit but I think he's almost a lock to be on QB Island to start the year because to me he's just an obvious I think top 10 quarterback at this point and you look at you look at the list of the eight guys right who we had on this list you know Trevor Lawrence Josh Allen Justin Herbert like they got the dazzle factor you know you can say okay Brock Purdy doesn't do but Brock has pulled out some games like whoa you know and then Drake Mays been steady right but he's got the ability he's got that that joe burrow right to kind of come in and kill you so i think that's what with with jordan love when i would sit there and watch him like man like he may be executing the hell out of this offense but where is that freaking flashing light like sometimes you see it like oh my god this guy's insane but then sometimes kind of like okay now he's now he's been what people you say about lebron lebron could take over games then it was almost kind of like he'd meld into the to the furniture a little bit and that's what i saw about jordan love i'm with you i think he's a guy who should absolutely start the season on the island and getting tucker craft back was every once he got hurt they didn't know that you talk about

32:11Jourdan Rodrigue:answers going out the window well and that's the thing steve it's a because like when these coaches from this system like historically through even beyond the the young guys that we see now when they have a outlier mismatch player that's specifically a move player so a player that they can align anywhere on the field what they will do is they will design their entire offense and in Kyle Shannon's case he's had two often they'll design their entire offense to flow to make that the first answer the first not necessarily always the first read but the first answer to any problem you get and they know how to do that because they understand defense is so well Jordan Love knows how to do that because he understands defenses.

32:54Jourdan Rodrigue:And so to me, it's a double-edged sword where if you're agreeing that you're going to protect the ball, that you're going to run the offense, that you're going to like keep everything as risk averse, as clean as possible, which he did. He was the seventh, uh, the seventh, uh, least off target percentage quarterback last year, according to true media, like he, he protected the ball only 21 sacks. He really, really protected the ball and himself for the most part. And when you agree that that is how you're going to run your offense, the double-edged sword is what happens when everything you built suddenly goes away and you have to redo it right in the middle of the season as defenses are pressuring you more as your body is breaking down.

33:34Jourdan Rodrigue:And as you don't actually have any clarity with that cluster of receivers about which one is going to be the most targeted one per week. And I think the big clue on this, first of all, it really goes to show how mature Jordan Love is and that partnership he has with Matt LaFleur because they are collaborators on this, right? We can't have one without the other. The other thing is, I think that you see clues. First of all, Kraft coming back is huge. Second, them reorganizing their receivers room. Yes, letting go of Romeo Dobbs and everybody scratching their heads about that, but also paying Christian Watson.

34:08Jourdan Rodrigue:And then providing you hear rumblings out of there there is more clarity than there was about who's doing what which means to me when one answer is not available five more will be and you have it built in this time stripping everything down and redoing it then maybe you were able to do last time and I think that's where we will really see him elevate this year is like are you saying oh that all this stuff about we don't really need a number one receiver stuff was kind of hogwash that's the nicer term than what I was using for it.

34:40Steve Wyche:Yeah, or like, yeah, we know who our three guys are going to be. And you're right that when he's looked as worse has kind of been late game situations where the other team is coming up with answers and they're not good at pivoting. That said, he has been in that offense now for five years. Yeah, this is the reason why you keep bringing back Matt LaFleur. He is going to be 28 years old. Jordan Love is that should be at the absolute peak of his powers to elevate what's not as good an offensive line, maybe what's not as dynamic a running game. And yeah, he's a guy you mentioned uh avoiding sacks he actually leads the nfl since he joined uh the league in avoiding sacks like this is a guy who who has the ability i think to have an mvp type season and more is going to be asked of him because that defense until michael parsons is good to go is not personnel wise is not what it has been yeah i think it was a bucket of cold

35:28Jourdan Rodrigue:water watching that defense not be what it was at the end of last season and then really i mean matt lafleur even said it straight up to the media stripping everything down like it was year one to me, that's problem solving mode. I've been in that building before when they're doing that.

35:41Steve Wyche:All right. We are going to take a quick break. Those are three young men who got the casting call for this episode. QB Island casting call coming back in a few minutes.

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37:53Steve Wyche:This is Jonathan Goldstein from Heavyweight.

38:23Steve Wyche:slash erp.

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39:28Steve Wyche:Thanks again to our old friend Randy Chavez introducing the show. Former producer. Great pipes. It's QB Island casting call. And when we came up with this show, we also wanted to include some young up-and-comers, you know, who maybe weren't really ever in the conversation. And maybe a guy in Tyler Shuck that I'll make the case. There you go. he's not going to start the year on QB Island, but if things go right, yes, I'm sure about that.

39:56Jourdan Rodrigue:Greg has come all the way around top 12 to start the year.

40:01Steve Wyche:No, he's not defining the position now, but, but here are the things he does. Well, going back and watching his tape. And I think this is a bucket of qualities to build a streaky, but potentially high level quarterback around that. Maybe you start the year fast and you're in the QB Island discussion. Number one, he gets through his reads fast. I mean, That is one of the hardest things for any quarterback to do. Many good quarterbacks never really learned that. I think Shuck does that. He does not turn the ball over. Not many turnover-worthy plays. Takes a lot of sacks. That's his biggest negative if we were going negatives.

40:34Steve Wyche:But he really protected the ball. So you're getting through your reads fast. You're protecting the ball. You have a combination of creation, more than I ever expected out of him in terms of him as a college prospect. A lot of his best moments as a pro was him in create mode. And he's a tough guy. Tough guy. And he took a lot of hits. He kept going. And he stays in that pocket sometimes to go through those reads and makes throws while under pressure. Did not see that coming when he was a prospect. But look, he's made himself a favorite son of New Orleans. He knows all the best places to eat. Like, I like his intangibles.

41:17Steve Wyche:He's just one of those guys that somehow makes more sense as a pro than he did in college. And I think he could take a big step in year two. And we see that, you know, this is a Kellen Moore staple, the quick decision making. Like every quarterback, Kellen Moore's coach, they can get to where they need to go. Okay, problem solved, problem solved, and the ball's out. Now you get him Travis H in, right, as a dual threat running back. Again, that dude carried a heavy load last year in Jacksonville. You keep Alvin Kamara, you can put him on the field at the same time. you've got three potential receiving tight ends they've got some options to tie down they've upgraded the offensive line you add Jordan Tyson to Chris Alave on the outside clearly the Saints are expecting Tyler Shuck to be good they built this offense to be better with him they had a top 10 defense last year you know they get I'm blanking on the uh their nickel safety's name

42:07Jourdan Rodrigue:hell of a player Sankar or are you talking about wait which one there's like a million of them that they use now. Jonas Sanker. Yeah, Jonas Sanker. I love that guy. Jonas! Weiser, my name is Jonas. But I think defensively, Brandon Staley, year two, the uptick is coming. Chase Young, he had a big year last year. Cam Jordan, 10 and a half sacks. They've got some people. I think the Saints are going to be good, but Tyler Shuck, they have built this team for him to succeed. And that's the reason why. He may not start the season on the island. No. But man, we might be talking about

42:42Steve Wyche:Got some land. Yeah, he's got a little Jameis or Tannehill to him where, like, is he going to be a top 10 quarterback consistently? I probably have my doubts, but I think the highs and the streaks could be really high. And he's like an intermediate merchant. And those are the quarterbacks I tend to love. 68 % completion rate at 20 plus. Right. He is a guy that over the middle of the field and you have Olave, you have Devon Vele. There's a great throw of him getting to his second read to Devon Bailey against the Panthers, where he takes a massive hit. And the only reason he can throw it is because he gets to that second read quickly.

43:17Steve Wyche:And that's where he that's where he wins. And that that's usually the hardest thing for a young quarterback to learn. And that's why I like Shuck is because he does so many of the hard things. Well, he has he has some flaws to his game for sure, but he does a lot of the hard things.

43:30Jourdan Rodrigue:Well, yeah, I mean, I think that you can tell immediately what the Saints and what Kellen Moore thinks of him and what think then think of, of what they all think of Tyler Shuck entering year two and specifically about the way that he gets through his progressions is because they built more of a layer to this offense. They added like multiple layers to this offense. And I don't just mean they added players to this offense. You, you touched on it with HN and certainly with Devon Bailey, I think is still maybe the front runner for their three. I know Jalen Polk has had a strong camp or a course, to the local media, but Vele, they love.

44:05Steve Wyche:Juwan Johnson is kind of a three.

44:07Jourdan Rodrigue:But there's dimension to it now. You're basically making and building little blocks out for him because you understand he can get to everything on the field. And I just think that that's a surefire way to understand if the team really thinks they've got someone at quarterback. They're not changing necessarily their blocking structure. They're not changing necessarily like the way that they play their system, you know, not to, not to be negative about someone else. That's having catch a stray, but you know, they changed their entire way. They were doing their front alignments with Bryce young. They started playing more empty.

44:44Jourdan Rodrigue:Now I think that was a really, really good thing in Carolina that they did, but you're not seeing that in new Orleans. And I don't think you will because they're going to build layers and because he's going to stand tall in there and get to all of his reads.

44:55Steve Wyche:And they know that they were the fourth fastest team in terms of tempo. last year, so I mentioned the tempo when it came to Jaden Daniels. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the fastest because he excelled at tempo and the thing that really got me was ultimately the extra that he's adding. A little bit like you talked about with Jordan Love, that he can color outside the lines in a way that I did not expect. It's tricky. You don't want to just count on like Bo Nix, these late game comebacks, but man, he had some big time moments. There was a a four-play sequence in the Bucs game where he gets out of pressure to run for a key touchdown around the end.

45:34Steve Wyche:I just did not think he had that sort of juice. But then there's a third and six. They don't win the game with four minutes left unless he gets to his second read fast with pressure flashing really quick. And the decision comes out. And then there's another third and five where he's hitting outside window throws. He can do the opposite hash stuff. He can do, there was a fourth and one like creation mode play that was called back by penalty, but it was incredible him getting out of things. And that was what I didn't expect out of him because I think he can do the tempo and the decision making pretty well.

46:04Steve Wyche:He's just got to stop taking sacks because the sack stuff is awful. I mean, he was one of the worst quarterbacks in the league in terms of he wasn't getting pressure that much. And he's just hanging on to the ball, trying to make a play too much. You'll get killed. He was a rookie. I mean, that's something he's just going to learn once he understands opposing personnel, what they're trying to scheme and do, you know, the tendencies of defensive coordinator. I hope so. He'll be better with that. That was something in college, too. It was like him and Brady Cook at the bottom of the league in terms of like.

46:35Jourdan Rodrigue:Well, you comped him in your rankings with the great John Ledyard. You comped him to what, Ryan Tannehill? Yeah. You're like, man, he's taking a beating, but he's standing in there. Yeah.

46:45Steve Wyche:He's a tough dude. So, yeah, Chuck, you proved me wrong with your rookie season. I was skeptical. cool. You have one more Jordan.

46:53Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah. So I, again, I know that we've talked about this player so much through the off season. And I think rightfully so we've, we've covered the, the, the warts, we've covered the places to grow. We'll touch on some of those here, but with CJ Stroud specifically, who I think we are going to be talking about as Island quarterback, Island material here into the season. We, I want to sort of reframe like I did with Jordan love reframe some of the discussion just a little bit, because I do think that this offense will take a step forward, um, in, in year two with this system. I do think that, uh, the, the moves they made to try to improve the run game will help David Montgomery.

47:32Jourdan Rodrigue:It looks like he's lost about 10 pounds. It says via his Instagram posts, um, in order to take on much more of that, that carry share with Woody Marks potentially as compliment. Um, they've redone their offensive line again. I'd love to see more true continuity there, but it sounds like they really like the guys they have. And then really importantly, it sounds like Nick Kaley is, I don't want to say simplifying because I don't think it will be a simpler offense, but I think it will be less dense. Like I think he'll be trying to do less. He'll be trying to not do so many things from multiple systems every single time in every single game and sort of cluttering things up.

48:09Jourdan Rodrigue:The concept I want to talk to you guys about is the idea of pace. And it's got two meanings here for the purpose of this discussion. First one is performance after critical error. CJ Stroud has fantastic numbers after he throws an interception, specifically. He has, courtesy of my friend Tej Seth, who ran this for me really quick this morning, he has a 0.43 EPA per dropback, 50 % success rate, specifically after he throws an interception. So the drive after he throws an interception on those plays after. when multiple things happen, when he takes sacks, and you could see this watching him all year last year, takes multiple sacks, there's some misfires, confusion, certain types of pressure.

48:54Jourdan Rodrigue:If there's an error or he makes multiple errors in a single series, you see that start to compound. You see him getting frustrated. You see him start to sort of get in his head a little bit. Yes. It happened in a huge way at the end of last season. So I'll pause here for you guys to weigh in, but that concept of pace, I think that there are a lot of tools, first of all, where C.J. Stroud to get back onto full-time quarterback island can address and also that the offense and the offensive coordinator can address too. When you're talking about pace, are you talking about in a series a certain tempo?

49:34Jourdan Rodrigue:His performance after critical error, so how he rebounds. So that goes to show you, one, he's got a character. But you saw in that Patriots game in the playoff, he just completely melted. And I think part of it, and I've spoken to some people about this who really diagnosed his film, some of it's on him, but some of it was on the offense. Yeah. Right? There weren't always answers. Like, he's dropping back. He can't get to his first read, second read, and then all of a sudden he makes a bad play, and it looks like he's panicking. But then what's supposed to be the third option, whether it was a receiver running a bad route or something or a block not being picked, Like, it did not happen for whatever execution or reason.

50:11Some of it looked like play design. So when you talk about Nick Caley coming back for a second year, he's got to improve upon that. And that's part of what they have to do there. And getting a Dave Montgomery and adding, you know, Keelan Rutledge, you know, the center to that spot to fortify some of the interior running game, maybe that helps because those young wide receivers, the stuff they're talking about, Jalen Noel and Jaden Higgins, like, they're young studs to go along with Nico Collins. And we know he's one of the better wide receivers in the NFL.

50:37Steve Wyche:I think of the Jaguars game early in the season or another one where he got in the hole and he couldn't get his way out. Look, both of his playoff games, he struggled. He was bad in the Steelers game too. I do think he is such a cerebral quarterback. Weirdly, his greatest skill to me, I think he's got a little bit of football genius to him. He just has a great feel of the position. He's what I want out of a quarterback. And so you do think that when he gets older, he maybe won't overthink things as much because I think he has such a good feel that when he loses it, it was like he loses it all the way and he tries to think his way out of it.

51:17Steve Wyche:Whereas maybe some people that play quarterback, they just, they're not overthinking it as much as

51:23Jourdan Rodrigue:I love that you guys have set me up for this next point because absolutely correct. I think I agree with both of you and it brings me to the other meaning of pace that I'm thinking about when I'm thinking about, you know, CJ Stroud and kind of who he is. And that is just general pace of development, pace of playing quarterback in the NFL. I'm not talking tempo. I'm not talking game pace. So often to me, he has been incongruous with the person who's calling plays for him. He was light years ahead as a rookie and Bobby Sloick's offense, I think, was right where it should have been that first year.

52:01Jourdan Rodrigue:CJ Stroud remained light years ahead just mentally in terms of that he's such a smart football player that that offense did not take another step forward and evolve and then there was personnel disasters we don't need to relitigate anything then Nick Cayley comes in and CJ Stroud is clearly showing to him he his pace is fast his pace is I want all of it I can do all of it I can think about all of it I can see all of it and Nick Cayley sees that and he's like holy crap like this is awesome I can try everything I'm going to try to meld these two systems, the Patriots and the Rams, and I'm going to try to do all of it sometimes in one game.

52:36Jourdan Rodrigue:And my answers that I give to my quarterback in the heat of the moment in battle are going to be maybe too much or too complicated or too clunky because there's too much going on all at one time. We don't have the run game to support it. We don't have the protection to support it. And you're asking then too much for a quarterback who wants to do all of it when sometimes the correct pace for both the play caller and the quarterback is to be together at the same time and to really dig and collaborate on how can I protect him from himself both ways yeah they tried to skip steps right they skipped steps and I think that is what exactly has is happening here and I think that's what they're very self-aware of in in Houston right now so the idea of pace in that regard being on this in the same step as the person that you're collaborating with.

53:26Jourdan Rodrigue:To me, that's what takes CJ Stroud from being this really, really gifted player who we just, we know there's more in there. We know the highs are so high and turns him, I think, into this once again, because he was his freshman year, essentially, his rookie year, a top 10 quarterback.

53:43Steve Wyche:The crazy thing is his numbers last year are almost identical, analytics wise, to his rookie year. But watching the film, I don't think he played as well. I just, I think it's misleading. And he was streakier now part of it is since he entered the league the texans are second to last in success rate and epa play running the ball yeah so it's like he's always in third and longs he's always in a bad situation there are obviously reasons for but i think what you hit on they've talked about it we'll see if they can execute it all offseason they've been saying we want to focus on what cj does well be build the offense around his strengths a little more instead of maybe just what we're doing and what are those strengths i i think um it's reading down the field and like

54:25Jourdan Rodrigue:downfield maybe and i also think that's only half of the story there because yes you should do that and he can do those things but in the cases where then he was asked to do too much with less with less support or less less pure answer you also have to protect him from himself it just because he can do it doesn't mean he always should so i think that's just only part of the story there well my final thing is look this is a big year for him i mean he of course he's got the contract coming up but more than anything they've got to balance out things because his defensive players they gotta be tired of carrying this team and you know if everything works out and he does have a good year they're gonna have to let some of those defensive players go because remember they've extended just about everybody like and the next one up is Henry To 'o To 'o and he's a hell of a player like if he gets on the market there's gonna be other teams that are

55:10Steve Wyche:gonna want him how about how about Texans Bills and then Texans Bengals both 1 p.m. Eastern games in Houston to start the season I'm just that's what's up Those are some good early morning on the West Coast game. Come on. Because CJ, to your point, I think there are certain players, teams, like it's important, I think, for CJ and this offense to get off to a good start. You want those two teams early to let your defense get after them while you're picking things on offensive. Okay. Last person for the casting call. I mean, come on. There's a couple of guys you've left off.

55:43Jourdan Rodrigue:I know. Well, we're not just saying who's going to get on, who's not. We're just wanting to have a conversation about them. And I'm just saying this. and this is because of who he is, what he is, and what he brings, and that's Patrick Mahomes. Who? Who? Exactly. Who? Coming off the injury. He's going to be ready for week one against Bo Nix. Do we know that for sure? I think so. What a match about guys coming off surgery. Coming off of injuries. But this is why I think we really need to pay more attention to Mahomes than ever is I think this offense personnel-wise, yes, they got Kenneth Walker, but it might be more of a mess than what he's ever had to deal with.

56:19That receiving core, it's not making teams saying, who are we doubling? It's not making anybody saying, oh, we've got to do X, Y, and Z because Travis Kelsey is where he is in his career. This offensive line has been unstable. It might be better than it was. Could be good. It could be better than it's been, but this might be the most ability that they've had. But what's going to be asked of Mahomes? What do we say every year? He gets asked to do more than any quarterback in the NFL because of his person. it might be more on him than we have seen it now eric biennemi and mahomes has said that he's back as the oc biennemi will be far more accountable than what they've had the past right he'll keep guys in line but just again what's going to have to happen with kenneth walker in this run game they're probably gonna have to score more points because this defense half of it is on other rosters in the nfl right now i think this is where patrick mahomes is really going to show us how great.

57:15We know how great he is, but this is going to be a next level move.

57:18Steve Wyche:I do think it's a great, first of all, we haven't talked about him despite him that much this offseason, despite him being, as I've often said, the greatest player I've ever seen enter the league, and yet, look, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees and Tom Brady never had a three-year run of statistical decline in the middle of his prime like Mahomes has had. Now, you can look at the tape and understand that he has been better than that, but I would say, at the very end of last year, they were out of answers in a way that they never had been before. And he had more value per game that he played running the ball.

57:55Steve Wyche:Yes. QBR or DVOA than any quarterback in the league. More than Josh Allen. More than anyone. And that's not going to be part of his arsenal this year. So they are so pass heavy. I think Eric Biennemi will help to change that. But they are the most pass heavy team in the NFL in almost every situation. It's just so much on his plate. And then you're taking away potentially his mobility this year. It is an incredible test of how great he is.

58:23Jourdan Rodrigue:So I don't think it's enough that they've done, but I do think I can understand their thought process of why they've done what they've done, which is, hey, Patrick Mahomes, how about instead of you running to extend plays, we design a bleep load of screens to Kenneth Walker,

58:39Steve Wyche:the best screen running in football right now.

58:41Jourdan Rodrigue:and Andy Reid, the best screen playbook in football right now. And we just say, okay, here, here's how we mitigate pressure. Here's how we get the quarterback to stop running so much and trying to do too much. We just give this, we just give this option to him. We build it into every single play as, as, as like a new type of a run pass option, like that type of a thing. It's an extension of their wide zone, whatever you want to call it. Like, I think that that is exactly what they thought. Like, Hey, who needs more receivers and, and who needs them to stay out of trouble? right? Because we can just go ahead and dump it to Kenneth Walker and we've got the best screen game ever.

59:16Jourdan Rodrigue:And I just, you know what I mean? Like, I just, I don't know if it's going to work, but I do think, and I think it's also a part of the reason, you know, you see like some of the, the, the builds of their alignment, they're athletic. They can move with that type of block, you know, that type of a thing. So I really do think that that, I don't know if it's going to work, but I do think that that is legitimately what they thought.

59:38Steve Wyche:Their, their offensive line, if it hits has potential to be one of the very best in the league. Josh Simmons could be a top five tackle. And he's leaned out. Sua Matea got better last year. It was a nice development story for them. They've replaced their right tackle. It's now going to be Jalen Moore, not Juwan Taylor. Like that could be better. You have Creed Humphrey and Trace Smith. So they're going to ask for that to be a lot of work. Cause to your point, it's like, oh wait, we're really doing Taekwon Thornton as wide receiver three for a second straight year. Cause we're going for that. It was, it was a different Mahomes last year.

1:00:08Steve Wyche:They started throwing deep like crazy again, and it was like not that effective. It wasn't terrible, but other teams blitzed them, and that used to be kryptonite against Mahomes. They didn't really have answers. They blitzed them. They were bad against blitzes. They were bad against man. It was a new Mahomes. He's going to get blitzed week one because they're playing Denver, and Denver's got some dudes who can bring smoke, but teams are going to try to get them out of the pocket to test that mobility. I mean, he's coming off the ACL and LCL, but that dude is made out of the most pliable ligaments.

1:00:41Look how many times he's jacked up his ankle and just bounced right up. So I think he's going to be back, but I think this is going to be, you know, the showcase of just how great he is. Because I think he's working with less. And again, the stonewall defense has been broken down.

1:00:55Steve Wyche:He's more interesting this year because of the adversity. We've never seen a Chiefs team enter a season like this. like, you know, their projected wins is going to be like nine, you know, eight and a half, nine, nine and a half. Oh, good. Won't somebody please give the Chiefs a chip on their shoulder? Right.

1:01:11Jourdan Rodrigue:Fool.

1:01:11Steve Wyche:And what I mentioned about the three-year period, like, I think he knows that. I think he's a little disappointed. Like, he's a guy that has had all the team success in the world, but he wants to put up big numbers. He wants to have flashy plays. I'm excited.

1:01:26Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah, I'm excited. He's someone we definitely, and then we should not, we'd be remiss to say, you know, another injured player. we probably will be talking about very quickly on the island is Lamar. Well, yes, yes.

1:01:36Steve Wyche:These guys, we'll have to decide whether they immediately get put onto the island. But that's for a month from now. Let's actually take one quick break. Before we let you get to your day job today, you're hosting NFL Insiders on NFL Network tonight. Everyone check that out Wednesday night. But we're going to do just a little bit of news. Training camp has started. Let's go. Should have mentioned that. Get real.

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1:05:29Steve Wyche:I should have mentioned right at the top. It's July 22nd, 2026. I'm back in Los Angeles, by the way, for good. Until we make a trip overseas. More on that coming up on NFL Daily. But Jordan might be coming with me this time around. Going to Paris.

1:05:46Jourdan Rodrigue:Just riding on Greg's coat. Okay, you gave it away.

1:05:49Steve Wyche:Yeah, we're going to Paris. We'll talk more about that some other time. As we're taping this.

1:05:53Jourdan Rodrigue:The girl who went to Paris. You don't get that reference.

1:05:56Steve Wyche:The two. No, I don't. Emily and Perry. I don't know. The Panthers and the Arizona Cardinals have showed up to their facilities. Training camp is opening for the two Hall of Fame teams. Although they didn't go as early as they could have. And so that means some of the other teams that are starting early. like the Seahawks and the Patriots. They're showing up in a couple days. The 49ers and the Rams are going to be over the weekend. Everyone will be there by early next week. But yes, the Panthers and the Cardinals are in camp. And so we'll start just with them since they're the teams that are there and you start getting these little news items.

1:06:34Steve Wyche:Number one, Jacoby Brissett. Ian Rappaport says that there is some agreement. He deserves a little more money. It sounds like this is going to be solved. And then the Cardinals also have a starting guard. Isaiah Adams, who is facing weapons charges in his home country of Canada. That sound pretty serious. So that's something we'll monitor with them. But I did want to ask you, Weish, about the Panthers, who got some rough news in terms of injuries. We knew Iki Akuanwu, who's on the PUP list to start camp. No surprise there. He's going to miss a big chunk of the season, maybe all of the season, because of his knee injuries.

1:07:10Steve Wyche:We did not know that their projected starting right tackle, tackle, Taylor Moten has a blood clot issue, and the Panthers, after this was initially reported, clarified that they're hopeful he could return at some point mid-season, but that has been a real linchpin for their entire team, and suddenly, it's one thing if you're down one tackle, and then you draft a player in Monroe Freeling in the first round to maybe help fill the gap. It's another thing you're now down two tackles with Taylor Moten out for a while. Yeah, I mean, Monroe Freeland's going to have to play right away. I mean, Moten, I think they're saying the blood clot could be near his lung.

1:07:47That's a dangerous thing. So he's going to have to go on blood thinners and this and that. We know you get cut and things like that in the NFL. So best of luck to him getting healthy. But these are big blows. I mean, this is something you have to form a certain type of pocket with a short quarterback who's not an evasive type of guy. It's not Kyler Murray that Bryce Young we're talking about. So, you know, these are tough blows. will see how they adjust. A good thing is you know now so you can plan schemes, see if somebody comes available that you want to add. But depth-wise and just front-line talent-wise, this is not what the Carolina Panthers need, especially playing in a division where you've got some guys you can get after.

1:08:27Steve Wyche:I doubt they knew before the draft, but we could try to find that out because Monroe Freeling was a little bit of a surprise pick there in the first round, But now they do have two guys in Rasheed Walker who they picked up in free agency for the Packers who has his own injury issues, who you would assume is going to slot in at left tackle. And then the first round pick at right tackle and Freeling that you at least have options there where most teams would not in terms of their fourth tackle.

1:08:55Jourdan Rodrigue:Yeah, I was I know that some of the stuff on Freeling was like, oh, he could use a year to develop or whatever. I was pretty high on him as someone who could play right away who I thought would win that job against Rasheed Walker. but it's like you at least wanted the opportunity to compete for it without that pressure, right, of, hey, now you're going to have to go in right away. This seems to me, I don't know, this is not reported info, but this seems to me like something that gets picked up in those physicals they're taking before camp. It's a real bummer. Like, I covered Taylor Moten early in my beat writing career.

1:09:27Jourdan Rodrigue:Really, really good dude. And just like a stalwart for them who's been through so much with that organization through ownership changes and multiple front office changes and multiple coaching changes and has always been their Ironman. For something like this to take him down is really, really upsetting, frankly.

1:09:47Steve Wyche:And we've seen Christian Barmore for the Patriots as an example of a player that came back from blood clots and played well last year. So yeah, happy, not happy trails, but just get better. Get well soon.

1:09:59Jourdan Rodrigue:Get well soon. Taylor Moten.

1:10:00Steve Wyche:And I should have mentioned Jacoby Brissett, According to reports, it hasn't been confirmed Wednesday, but the expectation was he was going to show up to training camp. He was not going to hold out. And so they hold in. So they will see. This sounds like one to me that could get solved by like the first day or, or the second day. You would hope so. A couple of contracts that got signed recently. Jordan Brooks got that money from the dolphins three years, $51 million,$35 million guaranteed on a three-year deal. So what a success story for a guy who early in his career in Seattle, they were like, is it?

1:10:39Steve Wyche:They didn't know what to do with him. Was it an inside guy, an outside guy? Yeah, is it going to work? Great job by the Dolphins getting him locked up. And then Devontae Wyatt, the defensive tackle. This one surprised me. Three years,$57 million extension,$20 million signing bonus there. I know you have talked about Brooks as one of the.

1:10:58Jourdan Rodrigue:Weight-bearing walls.

1:10:59Steve Wyche:Weight-bearing walls of their sprint rebuild, and they put their money where their mouth is.

1:11:02Jourdan Rodrigue:I am starting. I'm clocking this. It's on my radar that they're being very adamant that they're calling them pillars in Miami, not weight-bearing walls. I do think that pillars just makes you feel a little bit better about yourself, like body-wise, probably.

1:11:16Steve Wyche:You don't want to just copy the Rams. You want to get better. Yeah.

1:11:19Jourdan Rodrigue:And honestly, look, I understand. This is an exorbitant, historic amount of dead money, not just this year, but some of it's spread into next year. It's almost impossible. I get that. All I'm saying is this is how a sprint rebuild works. This is very expected. It is to me. They have a plan. They're following that plan, whether it works or not. I personally am higher on the dolphins than most, not at the beginning of this year, but by the end of this year and into next year. And I just think that it just makes it. All of this makes a lot of sense. He's one of the best players in the league right now on that side of the ball.

1:11:54Jourdan Rodrigue:and he also is certainly someone who he's going to be a bridge with their young linebackers that they just drafted it's like jacob rodriguez and then i'm i forget his name lewis and i forget his last name lewis and and they they are going to play early lewis is a good player yes so and by the way you're not going to see him in the new system when it comes to the other dolphins i'm most when you say you're higher on i'm most you're most yeah well i noticed when you're talking about building the pocket around the quarterback with the two tackles. It kind of, I mean, you looking at our pocket right here around Greg.

1:12:25Steve Wyche:Oh yeah. We got a pretty solid one. I mean, yeah, you're looking more. I'm trying to think of like Andrew Whitworth over there next to me. What do I look like, Greg?

1:12:36Jourdan Rodrigue:Just kidding. Don't answer that.

1:12:39Steve Wyche:Yeah, I won't answer that. I'm a little surprised. Devante Wyatt, who I didn't think, you know, it was injury plague last year. That was a lot of money for him. You do. You do sometimes wonder about, you know, of the extra edge you get when your GM wants to be proven right. Some of it is also how does this help our locker room? We've got a good player you want to build around, and he'd show that if you go through it and you do it the right way, we're going to pay you. Other guys look at it, and I think that's another Jordan Brooks thing as well. They've spent money on a lot of players over the years, and sometimes it's been re-signings on guys that were just okay.

1:13:11Steve Wyche:You know, Gutekunst and all the resources he spent on that defense over the years just to be okay. Sam Laporta was cleared for training camp. That was great news for the Lions. And yeah, I mentioned that the Seahawks are showing up this week and the Patriots are a little earlier. So we're already getting these like PUP list. I get a little tingle when I see the reports. I don't want anyone to go on a PUP list, but I'm just saying like, okay, now it's happening. Zach Charbonnet is starting. But didn't the Nick Emanwari one get your attention? Nick Emanwari got my attention. Harold Landry for the Patriots was another one.

1:13:44Steve Wyche:Charbonnet is one. When it comes to the Seahawks, though, I did think it was interesting. Our insider Ian Rappaport said the Devin Witherspoon contract extension, he believes much closer. They're working very hard on it than a Christian Gonzalez extension. Same agency. But we'll see. Seattle wants to get it done. It sounds like they're kind of racing to make that thing happen.

1:14:07Jourdan Rodrigue:Well, and at least one side is racing to see what the other guy gets so that they can try to ask for more.

1:14:13Steve Wyche:Well, I would imagine, and I could be wrong, that Christian Gonzalez is one going to be in the Patrick Sertan neighborhood. Whereas Witherspoon might get that slot discount. No, they're both going to be at$30 million range. That's Gardner contracts at the bar. Chris Bell went to the reserve NFI list. That was a day three pick that I really loved from the Miami Dolphins. So yeah, these transactions are already starting. That's why Jordan's like the momentum is going. He side-eyed me. He side-eyed me when he said that. No, I like some Chris Bell. He's coming off a torn. So that's no surprise. The Seahawks, by the way, will be the hard knocks team this year.

1:14:49Steve Wyche:So who knows? We might have a Devin Witherspoon hold in or a contract signing as, as one of the stories there. And then, you know, before we go, just I like to say goodbye to these players when they retire and not forget about them. How about Danico Autry? Good NFL career. Great NFL career. If you think about where he came from and everything, but always an underrated player. He is retiring. So happy trails to Danico. Autry. Happy trails. How many years was he in the NFL? A 2014 draft pick. 12. East Mississippi Community College. And then Mississippi State. I think that was Hard Knocks U. The Hard Knocks.

1:15:30Was it the last chance U? Last chance U. Was he? I think East Mississippi was the last chance U.

1:15:35Steve Wyche:But, yeah, he started with the Raiders, Colts, Titans, Texans. So that's it for Nico Autry. And that's it for the news. We're just sprinkling a little bit of news. right now. You know what else we've been sprinkling in our timeline over the last

1:15:48Jourdan Rodrigue:year or so?

1:15:50Steve Wyche:Power players with Jordan Rodrigue. We got another episode coming on Thursday. Who do you got?

1:15:57Jourdan Rodrigue:So excited. We've got Rams assistant general manager, John McKay. We're going to talk a little bit about what they do differently. What's copyable, what's not copyable around the league in terms of their scouting and talent identification process. We're going to talk some miles Garrett behind the scenes. Might talk a little Aaron Donald. Okay. Well, we'll see.

1:16:15Steve Wyche:So that will be our show on Thursday. And then Jordan and I will be back on Friday with the first of our Around the Division previews, starting with the AFC West. And we'll also hit any news that pops up. Hit that music, Eric. Let's get out of here. I've been honking.

1:16:31Jourdan Rodrigue:Oh, my gosh. This was so fun today, guys. How about this? I'm getting a call from one of my favorite baseball players of all time.

1:16:36Steve Wyche:I saw that Vince Coleman is calling Steve Weiss right now. And I'm like, is it that Vince Coleman? It's that Vince Coleman. Did he get 100 steals one? Steve Weiss is the best. Thank you, Steve, for joining us. We'll have you next time on QB Island. Until then, we'll see you.

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