Saturday Sickos: All-Underrated Offense

30:17All those rushing figures being a disaster, not just because the offensive line isn't good enough. Like there's a lot of fail that happens when he's up at the point of attack. So I would maybe lean Gadsden, but he has no way near the kind of all around impact. Now, if you're doing two tight ends, we need the playmate. guy. So then you throw, you throw Gadsden on the team. He is that playmaking guy. He is my slot. Uh, I like my team so far. Let's take a quick break. We're going to come back and we're going to do the quarterbacks and Ali is going to run through his all underrated.

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35:16Back on NFL Daily, Hope and Ali is not too mad at me for including Mari Lassiter in the Alec Pierce dunk on him highlight crew. Real. I know you're a big Lassiter fan. You can throw him out there for the defensive team. We'll get that. The only negative plays had all season. You managed to find the film. It's brutal. It's fair. That's fair. Okay, let's get to quarterback. I didn't know where to go. I guess it's partly because of the position, like what is underrated at quarterback. I could have chosen a million quarterbacks here or it was very difficult to choose just one. So I'll put you on the hot seat to start.

35:55Yeah, I found this the toughest one just because I feel like it's covered so well as a position that everyone feels well slotted. There's still an element of me of how many years can I go on saying that I feel like Jared Goff is under discussed and undervalued for what he does. Jordan Love, I just feel is so special yet still gets thrown into a camp of like, is he, isn't he? And I just think that he is. So I toyed with that. The one I settled on was Bryce Young in the sense that I think he's an NFL caliber starter. And yet there's still conversation of should they pick up the option? Should they not pick up the option?

36:27What will the extension look like? And it's pretty hard to find NFL caliber starters, even with the number one overall pick. It's pretty tough to do. You go look at the recent history of that thing. It's not that strong. I think that Bryce's development has been fascinating this season in a bunch of like under the hood ways that give me some confidence that he can at least be league average for a sustained degree of his career. And that's no poor thing. And so I think he's become slightly underrated for the actual player he is. that's that's fascinating to me because i know you've had your doubts about him i have given up listening to the read optional for lent or no just for this show for the saturday sicko show but everyone should check out ollie's great podcast with john ledyard it is worth signing up for for his sub stack for the writing and for the podcast and you've wondered you know in the off season whether bryce young was really like a great fit for what this dave canalis offense was trying to be when it was trying to be so traditional and it has been an up and down year for young like the good games have been incredible the bad games especially early in the season like some of his first quarters were just disastrous what has he done in terms of development under the hood you're talking about that that you've seen that gets him on this list I just think the level of mental and physical toughness is like the super skill he has people when I've already talked about Bryce Young I wrote this giant column in the offseason about Bryce Young where I effectively have like a mental breakdown trying to figure out a player I just couldn't understand I just couldn't get with what was happening with him and his development that and I got asked when I was doing the podcast rounds about that piece of well what is the super skill and I think the super skill is the intellect and the toughness and there's been plenty of guys who've had unbelievable careers where those are the two super skills um and so his ability to stay composed on the fire has limited there have still been disaster plays you go and watch the Niners game there's disaster plays everywhere I get it but it's it's less than it used to be and he still in an ill-fitting setup which gives me belief that if it was slightly more well suited to his natural game which is in the gun playing point guard which they can't do at the moment because the team around him and because the way the coach wants to play that he could have a stronger career and be a viable starter which is just not where certainly I was at at the end of even last season I don't think the fifth year option decision is that difficult I did say a month ago on the show that I thought it was going to be an important, that was coming off his worst game of the year.

38:53It was going to be an important stretch run for him because if he threw in a lot more games like that and didn't show development, would they bring in competition in the offseason for him? He's had some of his best games of the season since then. So that I think is going to put that to bed. And the fifth year option decision to me is less difficult, even if they ever wanted to bring in another quarterback there. It's$26.5 million. at this point that's pretty low for like a starting quarterback even if you don't low like love him you just have to kind of get used to what the salary cap numbers are that's low like he could not even have his starting job going into his fifth year and that's not that crazy or be battling so I'm with you you got to see the development and you know I've been comping him to Alex Smith his whole career in terms of what his career arc could be especially with that brutal rookie year bounce back to just stable second year and i i think he's sort of still on that path even if even if they're different players and i think it's it's a weird one because i was so down and dour on dave canales and how he kind of viewed the game and went about coaching him particularly how he approached bryce early on then i was really impressed with how he completely over all the system be like i just got to accept who my quarterback is and i'm going to roll with that that i've now pivoted to being if you had to pick one of the two of them i would pick canales over bryce jung and i would be all for bringing competition and saying for example if they had cam ward in that system right now would be i think better and a way better long-term fit but i just think that bryce's skill set has shown me that if he went and he was the cardinals quarterback next season or whatever it was that he would be a viable starter even with the concerns people have i think the touch the downfield throwing enough off script creativity he has a super processor in his head he He just sees things and reacts so quickly to everything that's happening that he could have a Alex Smith career is a great example that he could have in eight years.

40:47He gets with his, whatever his version of Andy readers and the team is really good and competitive, but he's just never going to quite be one of the 15 or 12 best quarterbacks in the league on a given season. And if he's 24 years old and he's got that super processor in his head, that's going to get better. And that advantage could become a bigger advantage as he has more time in the league. So I like that shout out. I like Dak was where I started to land and I might get there. I'm going to just talk it through with you and we'll decide because I just think he's been incredible this year. He's, he's having a peak Dak year, which means he's as good as any quarterback in the entire NFL.

41:29And so to me, that is for what, how he's talked about, he is underrated going lower on the list. There are some options. Now, the way I've heard people talk about Mac Jones of like, hey, you could trade for Mac Jones and make him the guy in New York. It's like, okay, he is no longer underrated. That's a terrible idea. But for what he did, I always kind of wonder, well, what would have happened if Kyle Shannon actually had Mac? We found out. You know what? He's second in success rate this year. He's behind Sam Darnold. He is ahead of Stafford, May, Daniel Jones. Like, go through all the names. He's literally ahead of everyone else.

42:07Even if you're looking for more like big play type of numbers, EPA per play, it's almost identical to what Purdy is there and at QBR. And I do think Purdy is a better player. And the way I've now like Mac is getting elevated to like he's that next Daniel Jones. I'm not so sure, but I was glad I got to watch him in this offense. I think do do a few things. What did you see out of Mac Jones that tell me I'm not just crazy that it's not all the system that he did some things in this system that were impressive no he threw he rips balls down the field all the time that's who he was at alabama he's the best deep thrower in the country he would throw with all this loft on the day i mean they had like a you know heisman room of receivers when he was at alabama so you just throw it up somewhere down there and those guys would find it but they were running a really difficult complicated offense alabama at the time and he would rethink so well and i always thought with him when he was with the pages it worked well with McDaniels when McDaniels understood the assignment, which was this guy is like an 18 pass attempts a game type player.

43:04And he's probably going to give us two absolute moon shots down the field when we want it. But we cannot put the ball in this guy's hands to decide games and point guard us down the field as though we've got Brady or something. I think you saw that more with Shannon. There were games, the Rams game where the ball's in his hands a lot. And then you get the two brain farts or errors. But if you put him on the Vikings next season and it's like, we're just going to throw the ball 20 times. And if you can just have one mistake and two, you know absolute hero shots down the field we feel pretty good about that that's a good landing spot if he was going to move on to another team i think the 49ers will have zero interest in trading him except for for a huge price and i don't think anyone's gonna want to give him a huge price they've got him under contract for a low cost purdy has had his share of injuries like that's very valuable to them all right well eric kind of made the decision for me mac jones baby If you're watching on YouTube, he put Mac Jones baby as my all underrated QB.

43:59I was still debating between him. And then I did want to give a shout out to one of Chris Wesseling's favorite quarterbacks back in the day, Marcus Mariota. Just getting it done. Like, runs that offense well. I actually was surprised some of his under-the-hood numbers weren't, like, as great as I thought. Because to me, he's passing the eye test. But he is doing his job. He is everything you want out of a backup quarterback. So I love him kind of realizing his best self here with the commanders. And if you look at, you know, I mentioned how shallow the free agent pool is. There's all these teams saying, do we bring in a veteran to compete?

44:31Do we go and find a bridge guy? Go look at the veteran quarterback. So we're going to be available in the offseason. It is absolute nightmare fuel. Marcus Mario is going to get paid really, really well to come in and compete for someone next season. Sneaky young, somehow still only 32 years old. Don't let the gray hair fool you. And it is funny because I think about Wes all the time with Mariota and Winston. We just, for some reason, spent half of our three of a three year period debating between the two. And here they are still sort of on these twin tracks. And now they're just these fun backups that are that are playing well and elevating their teams when they do play.

45:07All right. Let's go to the offensive line. We will wrap there. And I'm leaning on you here. I have one thought, but I'm actually going to seed the floor. let's start at the tackle position give me your two tackles you have on the all underrated team so i went left and right tackle as you should do with teams you should put them in their position so a left tackle to me it's it's a straight shootout between bernard ryman and paris johnson i went with paris johnson um i did enjoy he had a quote about a month ago about how much better life is essentially with jacobre set in the building and not having to deal with kyle amari about how much easier it is to fight and be engaged in football so that's been uh fun to watch when he's in there i think he's still only 24 he's really figuring things out now that he's not quite i don't think as athletically gifted to be one of the five best in the league for you know a prolonged stretch of his career with a sixth overall pick you really hope you can go and get yourself someone with the physical capabilities of like a maelotta but he just plays with such veteran savvy it's as basic as like just stay in front of the guy stick on and try and sustain through the block as best as you can.

46:13And that really is the best you can hope for when we've had so many duds who have like the right athletic profile coming into the league. And he was billed as a super athlete. He just doesn't quite move that way with the springs to keep up with the dominant guys. I mean, he got crushed by Micah Parsons, crushed by Josh Hines Allen. So against the tier one guys, he just can't sink and bend with the true great ones, but he'll shut down the B tier rushes, which is a really similar profile to Bernard Ryman, where you really want to have the top five left tackle in the league, but it's really viable to have one of those guys six through 12.

46:43And I think that Paris Johnson has made his way into that group. Yeah. You, cause when, when I watch him, he does seem to move and have basically every, everything that you want, but you're seeing him cause he is young as like closer to, I'm trying to think of like the level of career, like a Jake Matthews type of career than, than possibly being a top five type of guy. Yeah. Well you look up and you're like, that guy's been there for 12 years. Has he been in the league that long? But he says you can't find a replacement. It's dumb to go and chase something better. But yeah, he's not Trent Williams.

47:15And you just have to live with that. And it's really valuable. Even when you go through some of his pressure figures, I went through and I looked at some of the pressures. And I think a lot of the stuff is just not on him. It's really hard to tabulate the pressures, particularly if it's one of the chip ones, where it's like database and how close they are to the quarterback. A lot of that is Kyler moving into pressure. A lot of that is like blown blocking mechanics where he's in the right spot. And then he gets dinged with the pressure because it's off his side. but he's you know blocking up correctly based on the line call so i think if you go through like true pressures where he struggled it's really only been against the the tier one players and most guys struggle those guys i just watched trent williams get his you know get whooped by miles garrett over and over again that's what happens against the great players yeah and when jacoby brissette is holding the ball for about three and a half seconds that's not easy Jacoby, I love how, man, if he could just not be inexplicably inaccurate on about four throws a game, he's freaking awesome.

48:13I guess that's been a case for him because he just hangs in there, but, man, he is holding the ball forever, and he's making it harder on his offensive line, and they've been better some weeks than others. Bernard Ryman is a good shout-out, too. I thought you know for this like I thought when Zach Tom signed that big contract then everyone was going to start just talking about him as one of the best you know right tackles one of the best players in the league and from what I've watched I think he's having a great season but still I don't think he's really getting that love so I throw Zach Tom out there still as underrated somehow despite all the money I would always throw Zach Tom in there if you start putting together the list of best right tackles you get to his name like third in line like he's just right there he is even if you just go by skill set the slick feet the base everything is as good the fluidity he's as good as anyone going he's just not quite in that a plus tier of like a lane johnson where it's like oh here's a hall of famer in their prime doing it at the highest level he's another guy who i remember last season when he had will anderson daniel hunter and he was just in an absolute blender he's like i am not as physically capable as these guys but you put him against all the other a minus b plus guys he just locks down the really really good players in the league and he is an absolute killer in the run game to which the rest of the group is just you know pretty much a travesty and that only ever flows when it goes through through zach tom it is funny because you're saying how it's not easy to find tackles and yet you know switching back to ryman who you mentioned the left tackle for the colts they did find like the anthony Costanzo, uh, like replacement exactly after.

49:46And so it's not hard for Chris Ballard's done a good job with that. And I went to look, I remembered he signed that contract last off season, four years, a hundred million dollars,$60 million guaranteed. They kind of got ahead of it with Ryman and that's going to age very well. I think for the Colts. All right, let's go to the interior line. Who are your guards? My guards, uh, we have to start with Damian Lewis from the Panthers who might now be my favorite player in the NFL. Wow. An absolute bowling ball of a human being. He is the tiniest, squattest interior lineman we have, and he just is out there to take souls.

50:21And what can you not love about an interior lineman who is just out there crushing everyone who rarely ever loses one-on-one in pass pro. I've watched him go up against Milton Williams and Deion Walker, Zach Seeler, Josh Heinzelen, we mentioned, and Trayvon Walker went up against both those guys one-on-one. He just nails people immediately at the point of contact, and the rep is just over. Not as quick moving side to side in pass, bro, but in the run game, he is just an absolute killer. He's so low to the ground. He just gets up and under people immediately, gets into position, can twist and contort anyone that you like.

50:53Crazy, crazy grip strength, despite having these really tiny arms, he just locks into people and can maneuver even the best in the game and can reset the line in his own. The Packers film is like all time, like just go and watch one guy on his own, more up front one-on-one they keep sending different bodies out and like someone else got the Lewis assignment he's like I'm good I'm gonna go wreck that guy's afternoon so Damian Lewis I've just fallen in love with I love that you sent me a clip that I guess is common on table he's just he's just like four yards down the field blocking his guy you're seeing that a lot that's turned into a great free agent pickup I think that was one of Dan Morgan's first signings it was kind of their what they planted their flag doing and it got it got some side eyes I think from people uh in the media and around the league and it sounds like it's worked out incredibly well he used to be very oddly flailing I don't know if he was concerned about having short rounds he just kind of flail out there now he's just like effort I'm just gonna go and set the terms myself is that if I get in someone's face this the snap is over which is why as you said you get the the snaps where he's three hours ahead of the rest of the line just all throwing up on themselves and panicking.

52:00And he's just out there hanging and chilling. Yeah, I was trying to think who else, who was the other guy that they signed that they gave the huge money to was Robert Hunt, who's been on injured reserve this year. But it did give them a bit of an identity, really the last two years, certainly last year running the ball. And that's a good shout out. Give me your other first team guard. I'm going to go with Mike Onwenu, who has just come in and been, has rediscovered himself, I would say, as a stable force. He does not quite move people in the run game the way he did when he was Pete Mike on Wenu.

52:34And it used to be he was this dominant, imposing run blocker, and there were concerns as you have the feet to really move in pass pro. You have to hide him and sneak him around. Now it's kind of flipped, where he looks a little bit stiff getting off the ball, and it's not always sweet and exactly what you want. But in pass pro, he has gone up against some of the best in the league, toe-to-toe, and taken on Dexter Lawrence and Vaitha Veja and Malik Collins and Jeffrey Simmons and just locked everyone down. So Michael Wenyu with the Patriots, of course. It's a dangerous spot here. First of all, you know, there's a lot of Patriots talk here on this underrated team.

53:06So we could be accused by it. Second, I should have mentioned for the listeners, Damian Lewis is a Panther, was on the Seahawks. I know he's not a household name. So next time you're watching the Panthers, check out Damian Lewis road grading for Rico Dowdle there in the backfield. Owenu is interesting because so many people form their opinions on offensive linemen based on PFF. And I feel like he's been a PFF darling. But he's also been very up and down in his career. Kind of an unpredictable career arc where it's like year to year, position to position. You know, he has moved around quite a bit.

53:45But you kind of feel like he's stabilized and like he's going to be on this team. because it's funny in the preseason there was some talk that he might be on the way out kind of like kyle duggar but instead here he is on ollie connelly's all underrated team what and i will say the right guard spot is a little tough because sam cosmi has missed time with health and i feel like he's still underrated and then dominic pooney who was like the i thought he was gonna be really really specialist had a pretty difficult second year in the league it's hard to say he's he's underrated at this point so he kind of looking through and going well everyone knows quinn Miners is the best right garden league he just is so you get to this almost like second team all pro and you're looking around like the John Travolta meme like okay where are my right guards that we can try and throw onto this team and I just feel like on when I think having Morgan Moses having a stable presence to the right side is is what has allowed him to be so strong in pass pro just having some degree of certainty like okay we're not going to win every single rep with Morgan Moses but at least I know that guy knows where he's going to be he's going to know who to pick up and it's not like me looking around and panicking because the thing on when he struggles with the most is when there's some kind of exchange and he's got to look one way and then reset and go the other way if you at least have some degree of certainty that a vet understands the assignment i think you can just play quicker and that's where he's improved this season there are so few values in free agency especially on the offensive line but you can find this on the defensive line too you can like the one place you can find value is like the 34 35 year old just like get us through a season Morgan Moses type like those guys keep being out there they don't get paid that much and they play as well or better than guys paid a lot more that are a lot younger and they get you by for a season let's wrap up with your center choice this was a tough one this was like a head and heart situation for me because I think that Luke Wattenberg with the Broncos is maybe the most underrated player but I'm sure there's some people like who is that person who is Luke Wattenberg?

55:42Is that a real, is that a law firm? Is that a guy who plays the NFL? So yeah, he's one of the best centers playing in the NFL, but I have to say it's Aaron Brew with the Dolphins who I think should probably even be Creed. It's always tough, but he's got a real shout for being the first team all pro center this season. Wow. That is a great shout out. You know, by the way, on Wattenberg who, who agrees with you, uh, a contract that we did not hit on this show was a four year,$48 million, only$13 million guaranteed contract by the Broncos, a couple weeks ago, or maybe even just a week ago. Sean Payton did it again.

56:14He has a way of finding these interior guys and getting them signed for way too little money. Jari Evans, those guys back with the Saints were some of the most underpaid players in the league for a while because they signed these early contracts. So Wattenberg could go down like that. Tell me more about Brewer, though. And I know you liked Patrick Paul's development, too, for Miami, but what does Brewer do that's unique among centers? Just the explosiveness. he might be the twitchiest guy out of his stance in the league the snap and go stuff is like not an easy skill for a lot of these players to figure out you go and watch someone like a Zach Fraser and he comes in and was like this is the greatest center prospect in years you go and watch the first year film he struggles to snap and then move it's like pretty difficult when you're trying to figure out all these giant bodies in front of you and remember what the run mechanics are and we've got a lot of plays it's not college football you watch Brewer go he just moves at a different speed and tempo to everyone else he rarely loses one-on-one in pass pro so you get all kind of like the linda bomb run game upside with the speed and the strength and the intellect without any of the like let's just take giant l's every third drive uh in pass pro um and yeah i was gonna say speaking of taking giant l's poor chris beer chris greer like this was a giant w for him and he's not still around to enjoy it so shout out to chris greer for this the other thing i love about brewer is he knows how much better he is than other people in the league and he plays with like a real disdain when he's played the bills this season there are so many instances of him looking around like sick at how bad the competition is after the play he's like how dare you step to a field with me i'm aaron brewer and i'm great that's awesome uh and uh not comforting if you're like eric roberts is producing here a bills fan let's wrap up with eric's idea he just wanted one match up here ali that you're looking to we're heading into what i think's the most interesting slate of the season.

58:06We've got three really important, intriguing games in the early window on Sunday. All the primetime games are going to be really huge in terms of playoff leverage. What is just like a matchup, whether it's a player, you know, a passing offense, whatever it is that you're most looking forward to this weekend? This might be a little off the wall, so I apologize, but seeing how the Cardinals defensively want to get after the Rams, because that staff more than most in the league put stuff on film that everyone goes and steals now they don't have the talent to compete necessarily at the level everyone else does but seeing what they cook up against Sean McVay they are the ultimate like bespoke game plan staff we don't have the horses we don't have the talent let's try and figure out something crazy we can do to steal a couple of possessions does not always work as we see by the record and the late game collapses but I have a feeling they'll put some stuff down against the Rams that works to steal a drive or two that other people will then go and steal moving into the playoffs.

59:03That's really interesting. And they play them twice down the stretch here. And I brought it up on the show. I wasn't sure how much to put into it, but they, they did hold the Rams to a combined 23 points last year. And the talent's probably better overall. And even the defense, like the numbers will tell you, this is like a borderline top 10 defense. It still has been a good Cardinals defense. They're one of the best, you know, it's damning with Frank praise three, nine teams I've ever seen in my life. They, they will make the Rams offense work. So that's a fascinating shout out. Like what have you, as we wrap up, what have you liked about this Cardinals defense this year?

59:38Not an awful lot, frankly. I'm not with you on them being one of the best three and nine teams. I see now, to their credit, they've had so many injuries in the secondary. They're rolling guys in and out all the time trying to fix about. I'm just saying they're a five or six win team. They could easily be six and six and it'd be like, they should be six and six. If they had not blown games, they would be six and six. my number one thing with the Cardinals where I'm like oh I do not like this this is not good for my soul is the decline of Buda who is the perennial all underrated player of just like the Hall of Fame guy like you don't realize we had Troy Palomar who returned to the league and he's just playing out in Arizona on shitty teams it's really unfair to see a dip in Buda's form and I'm wondering can we get him maybe to another team where there's like a second resurgence and a second life would they allow him to try and do that or is it just once the decline comes for that position?

1:00:30That's just a problem. And a lot of stuff they do, their most creative stuff, and they are probably the wonkiest defense in the NFL, is this is the coverage shell. Here's where everyone is. And then Buddha, you just go and do what you want to do. You just figure it out on your own. That works really well when he's at peak athleticism, peak mentality, can read the game quicker than anyone else. When that takes even a 3 % ding, you get all kinds of issues in coverage. We put you on the spot and you delivered, like Buda Baker does so often. They gave him an extension in December last year. It's always a weird time for an extension.

1:01:07And so he's probably not going anywhere. That would be tough to trade. But he is one of those players, I agree with you, that I'd like to see in a different uniform at some point in the spotlight making playoff runs. They're not doing that anytime soon. All right, that's it for the all underrated team on offense. I enjoyed doing it. I think we should do the defense next week. And then we don't even have to come up with another idea. Another Saturday for the sickos. Thank you, Ali. Thanks, Greg. We, uh, we'll be back. These Saturday shows obviously are the last time before you hear us before the recap.

1:01:39So Jordan Rodriguez, who's been away on assignment should have mentioned at some point this week, uh, for the athletics. We'll be back in the studio with myself and Patrick Claibon and Nick shook in Cleveland or the recap show. We'll see you then.

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