Super Bowl LX Preview with Liam Coen, Garett Bolles and 'Mad Dog' Christopher Russo

15:25Gregg Rosenthal:How do you, aside from getting a better down distance, how do you force the defense out of that? If they're spinning in ways that, on early downs, that your quarterback or that yourself as a play caller don't necessarily want to see.

15:37Christopher Russo:Jump the ball. Jump the ball, I learned from Sean.

15:39Gregg Rosenthal:Yeah, I was going to say, what's the turbo package? Yeah, there you go.

15:43Christopher Russo:Yeah, jump the ball, and I will say Trevor.

15:45Liam Coen:Explain that to the listeners. Go no huddle.

15:48Christopher Russo:A lot of ways where if you're trying to trap them maybe in base defense and you've got a favorable personnel grouping on the field or you don't want to see their dime package maybe on third down that you'll go and jump the ball to keep them in nickel and things like that that allow your personnel to be favorable. And then when you go no huddle, oftentimes you're going to limit maybe the calls that the defensive coordinator can make. And so you only have so many turbo calls maybe as a defensive coach and really as an offensive coach as well. So that's something obviously learned early on in this profession to if you want to limit some of that that junk, you know, get on the ball.

16:29Gregg Rosenthal:One thing that I think we both noticed and we talked about on our show, too, was like, Liam, like, I mean, I covered you in 22. And then before that, obviously, but like you like you came out of your shell, too. Not that you were in a shell necessarily, because I think people who know you and talk to you, they think you're really personable and all of that. But it wasn't just that the team was winning. Like, I don't know if you've gone back and watched broadcast copies or anything like that, but you're in it. Like, you're living and dying in it. But you're showing that kind of personality. And I think that within reason, obviously, coaches now, especially this generation of coaches that are so connected with the team, that's like kind of okay to do.

17:11Gregg Rosenthal:Did you feel the fans? And I know Ashley, your wife is very connected with the fan base. So did you feel the fans sort of respond to you being like full on, like I am Jacksonville, like F you, we are going to get that kind of a thing?

17:25Christopher Russo:You know, maybe like who is this psychopath at first, right? And look, I appreciate and understand Ashley did a phenomenal job incorporating the community and our organization with the fan base. But I think that if players know, because it's really all about them, right? Like I care so much. Obviously, I want our fans. Our fans are amazing. I want them as involved and as engaged as we can have them. As long as your players, I think, don't feel like they're aligned on a piece of paper. Like if you are just, I'm here, you're here, you need to go do this route on this piece of paper, on this playbook, on this past picture like this.

18:04Christopher Russo:well like i don't know that that takes away some of their their creativity they are the the art of which uh some of this stuff is done and when i feel like i'm maybe in it with them and and have a little bit more like in the fourth quarter when you have nothing else right like man i want to play for my name i want to play for the next contract i want to play for my family whatever those whys are right well in the fourth quarter when you got nothing left in the tank i do want our players to ultimately look over the sideline and say like i want to play for him yeah i don't want to lose for him too because we are all in it together and so I think when you can have that relationship you can have that connection with the players uh maybe it maybe goes a little bit

18:43Liam Coen:further Jaguars fans one of the most underrated fan bases in the league in terms of knowledge in terms of passion yeah passion like in terms of the coverage it's just one of those I've been writing and talking about football for 20 years just one of those fan bases you always hear from oh yeah and but they're but they're but they're smart about it too yeah and they love a good rivalry and an underrated rivalry tight is titan's jags oh yeah for sure oh yeah you got sala now coming into the division i know the fans are now going to be a little fired about that little aggro between you guys we've talked plenty of times after let's let's bring a little aggro back with between the coaches just fun like in a in a fun way how you feel about that now no it'll

19:25Christopher Russo:It would be great. Honestly, with Houston in the division prior, it was like almost having that feeling of not saying, because we had not built to the Rams degree. I'm not saying that, but it felt when we were getting ready to play them was how we were getting ready to play San Fran every year, every twice a year. Because of the structure, the way they play, the way that they come to play every single game.

19:46Gregg Rosenthal:That's right. And so now you've got Coach Saltlett coming in.

19:50Christopher Russo:You're like, damn. All right. So we've got another one. we got to buckle up for, which is just so good for our league. It is. It's so good for our division. I know what kind of football coach he is. I know what he's going to have that defense ready to go do specifically. And so it's a great test for us. I mean, look, you want to be able to compete and play against the best in every week in the NFL. That's why it's the best game in the world. That's the same for us as coaches, right? Like our players have a lot of pride in beating their peers right but they also then they'll go off camera and you know go hang out with them they switch jerseys like it's all it is love like we all want to see each other thrive but it's

20:27Gregg Rosenthal:competitive and we all want to win and that well when we're talking about you coming on your shelf that kind of energy though like your players seem to really respond to you kind of you know you're like I'm not going to take we're the Jaguars we're not going to take any crap from anybody kind of a thing and your players really seem to to respond to that I know the community definitely responded to it and I guess I wonder like you carrying this forward into year two as a coach I know you guys are approaching the offseason differently uh well I know we're familiar with the way you're from but differently than I think a lot of teams will totally um I know that you guys are thinking about how to keep building this and how to keep pushing this forward what are what are a couple of my like key cornerstones that stick out to you there I mean so

21:08Christopher Russo:much I think of of success like this year was great right but everything is so much about year to, I think, in this, your evolution, your, are we kind of for real or not, right? Like having that, those conversations of sustainability, wanting to take the next step. I mean, at the end of the day, that was a great year. We won the division. Awesome. We fell short of our ultimate goals, right? That's the reality. 31 teams in this NFL league will say the same thing, right? But that's the beauty of it, is we have an opportunity to keep getting better. We built off some great energy. Guys played their tails off for us as a staff, in which we really appreciate.

21:50Christopher Russo:But we can get better. We need to get better. And it's those details that you mentioned earlier. It's that sloppiness. And I thought we did a great job in the second half of the season cleaning that football up. Well, now we've got both our coordinators, all three of our coordinators coming back. Nice little feather in your cap that Grant Yudinski didn't go. Huge, huge.

22:08Gregg Rosenthal:I would love to know a little more about the recruiting, the self-recruiting and saying like, hey, please, you know, because I know you guys have built a lot of camaraderie over the last year.

22:18Christopher Russo:Yeah, it was hard. I mean, you're going through, you hire a couple of young first-time coaches to give opportunity to that you really believe in and trust. And then to see them get some early exposure into the head coaching lens is, it's something that you feel so proud. You know, there's pride, there's excitement, there's frustration, there's anxiety, but really proud and glad that those guys ended up being able to come back. And Heath Farwell, our special teams coordinator, is one of the best in the NFL, hands down. And to have that continuity and now be able to go into a real offseason, right?

22:53Christopher Russo:This is Trevor Lawrence is one of his first offseasons without dealing with an injury. So what does that look like? Like we need to get better this spring and have every opportunity to do so. And so that's the goal is, man, how do we build off of it? What the results are, I can't tell you. But this process in which we go about it, the offseason, OTAs, phase one, being where their feet are, and winning each phase, I think we can continue to get better.

23:22Liam Coen:I'll get some tips from you, too, because I'm going to have to do some self-recruiting when they start coming after Jordan for her own show. Yep, they're coming. And I'll bring her that, and I'm like, you know.

23:30Gregg Rosenthal:No, I'm just riding on Greg's coattails the entire way. Stay in the system. That's my strategy.

23:35Christopher Russo:Stay in the system a couple more years. When you got something that works, don't fix it.

23:39Liam Coen:Before we let you go, we're wrapping up here. But I'm currently buying up all the Travis Hunter stock that if anyone is selling. Because I felt how your front office felt. I'm sure how you felt, too, before the draft. That there's only so many players. Not just the both sides of the ball thing. More of that the game seems so slow to him. We had a guy on this show. yesterday, Justin Jefferson, where I know they're very different in many ways, but in the ways that they just move differently. There's only a few types of guys that move differently. He made, he made me feel something that I think he made your front office feel too.

24:14Liam Coen:And I, and I still believe in all of that. So I guess I haven't seen him on the field and the practice field every day. Like what did you see out of him and how he was moving, especially on defense,

24:24Christopher Russo:but either way you hit the nail on the head is like, when you just say without a lot of coaching, you just say like go play and just go watch yeah it's different for sure it is like the way he moves the way he anticipates the way that uh he feels coverage the way on offense the way he just kind of like feels zones and has a he's a football player he is and it was so unfortunate to to get hurt like that on a bye week practice that he had just come off of having a hundred yard game And, man, that made us obviously have to pivot in some ways. And it was super frustrating. But he is the type of human being, the type of dude, that will get better from this.

25:06Christopher Russo:A minor setback for a major comeback. He will come back from this. He will be great. One step at a time, one day at a time. And what that looks like moving forward, I mean, shoot, I can't tell you. We were evolving as we went, right? Time at practice, on offense, defense, this. We were pretty fluid with it. And so it'll give us a great opportunity to evaluate it again this spring. And I do expect him to return to form them.

25:31Liam Coen:Well, I think that's it for Liam Cohen, because I got to give you guys time to just talk off camera. Before we started, like, there's a lot of good stuff going on here. And I can see our producer, Eric Roberts, not saying get this stuff on the show, because I know that everything is not for air. More like, let's get the show going so we can have more time with Liam Cohen. but you're very generous with you. And we'll have to talk about UMass off the show too. Yeah. I don't really need to be there for that.

25:57Gregg Rosenthal:The zoo, baby. Let's go. My sister went to UMaine though. She did grad school there. That's where I first coordinated her job.

26:03Christopher Russo:Black Bears. Yeah. Orono, Maine. It was my first time. Colin Plays was up there. That's awesome. Thank you guys so much for having me on. We appreciate you, Liam.

26:10Liam Coen:Good luck with the coach of the year and everything. And good luck for the 2026 season. Thank you, Liam Cohen.

26:15Christopher Russo:Appreciate it.

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30:44Liam Coen:Back on NFL Daily, we got Amon Ross St. Brown walking by. We got Brian Urlacher walking by. We got Bo Jackson walking by. All the luminaries. Who has made you the most excited you've seen? I saw Matt Castle today.

31:03Gregg Rosenthal:I mean, come on.

31:04Liam Coen:Do better. He's just one of our podcast co-hosts. I mean, he's great, but he didn't do bad.

31:09Gregg Rosenthal:Bo Wolfe of PHLY. Oh, Greg is disappointed. I'm making up for it. No, it's cool. It's like such a scene here. It's a great environment. What I like is you see people who you haven't seen in a while. You catch up with friends. You do that drive-by catch-up kind of thing where you're like, great to see you. I'm running late. I'm grabbing Greg's coffee and then rushing to the set.

31:32Liam Coen:Stop. And then. I kind of hate that because you see people. that you haven't seen in five years. I just thought Ed Lewis will be delighted to know that he's mentioned in the show. He'll never find out. Who we used to work with in the newsroom. I haven't seen him in like seven years. But we're running to a hit for another show. And I'm like, oh, I got to go immediately. And then it seems like you're big-timing them. It's just like stressful. No, we're all in a hurry.

31:59Gregg Rosenthal:I don't like that feeling where I'm like, got to go.

32:02Nick Shook:Yeah, I'm sorry. Hi, hello, I'm in a hurry. I'm running late. But I did see somebody that I haven't seen since college. who is a producer for ESPN. Let's go. Awesome.

32:10Liam Coen:So speaking of in a hurry, I just wasted three minutes blabbing when we're putting a clock on our Super Bowl preview. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to put 13 minutes on the clock to talk about the Patriots when they have the ball. Patriots offense versus Seahawks defense. Okay. We're going to put limitations on us like Kyle Shanahan put limitations on Mac Jones. The bumpers. Mac Jones would rather be bumper bowling a little bit, I feel like, because it helped free up his mind to play looser. So we're going to do that. We're not going to give us a chance. It's going to keep us moving.

32:48And then we're going to talk 13 minutes about the Seahawks offense

32:51Liam Coen:against the Patriots defense. And then we're going to throw to a couple great interviews with Garrett Bowles and Chris Maddog Russo talking about the game and get out of here. So let's start with the Seahawks offense. Start the clock. it's happening and um i'll start with you shook like the number one thing you're looking for from the seahawks offense to to know that they're that they're going to be in good hands and put their team in in position to win this game i mean it's gonna sound wow that was great by the way

33:29Nick Shook:fantastic makes me feel like i'm back at practice uh it's gonna sound cliche but it's gonna start on the ground game because that's been the basis of their offense, especially late this season. Now, of course, Sam threw for a ton of yards in the NFC Championship game, but prior to that, the story was Kenneth Walker. The story was their backfield. We know they lost Zach Charbonnet, but it was their ability to control the game on the ground because if they can do that against this Patriots defense, then they can work out of their run action. Mike Vrabel talked about it at length yesterday, how good Clint Kubiak is of building out of the run action.

33:56Nick Shook:If they can do that, they can dominate possession, they can put points on the board, and they can really flip the game in their favor. Yeah, well, Sam Darnold is like the fourth best play action passer

34:06Gregg Rosenthal:and explosive pass rate off of play action in the NFL and has been all season even when the offense dipped or got less explosive. He stayed pretty consistent there, and it does predicate off of how well they can run the ball. And what I really like about this matchup isn't just the good on good of it or the front on front of it. It's the little nuances within even that, which is the Patriots are strongest against the run on the interior. Well, Ken Walker is such a creative runner. The way that he can see the perimeter so well. We saw it two weeks ago in the NFC Championship game where he would be so patient and he would see exactly where to kick.

34:49Gregg Rosenthal:I would always say it's the keep away from Puna Ford plan kind of thing. It's the same thing. Keep away from Milton Williams' plan. That kind of a situation where Ken Walker can really see it so well, and they are just as comfortable running variations of wide and middle zone as they are, you know, if he sees something right up the middle, then he can take a couple guys down with him.

35:10Liam Coen:I think they're going to miss Charbonnet a little more, especially in this game. They didn't really run it that well against the Rams. They're one of the worst teams in the NFL statistically in third and long. Like they are a team that needs to stay on schedule, and they generally do that with their passing game. I mean, they throw plenty on first down. You talked about the play action, and I think they'll be aggressive. But Walker and Darnold are kind of symbolic of this offense, which is a little boom or bust. Yeah. You know, the running game has been great sometimes. It's, you know, that's a matchup, and there aren't a ton in this game where I think if you go by what they do in an average week, the Patriots actually have to feel good because they love their edge guys in terms of stopping the run too, like Anfernee Jennings.

35:53Liam Coen:It's probably the number one takeaway I had going back. I went through all the coaches filming these guys in the playoffs, and it was all the other guys for the Patriots that stood out to me. Anferty Jennings and Durden and Elijah Ponder actually rushing the passer a little bit. And it's just like team defense, running the ball, and then if you get Darnall into tough down and distant situations, I think we'll know early. I think we'll know in the first drive or two if he's moving through his reads quick. If he's getting to the backside of his reads so fast, like he was in the NFC Championship, Patriots are going to be in trouble.

36:29Liam Coen:But I think we're going to find out pretty fast.

36:31Nick Shook:And that's why I point to the run game, because how much of the game and the pressure do you want to put on Sam Darnold's shoulders? You don't want to be a pass-first, primary-passing offense in the first quarter. Ideally, you don't want to have to put everything on Sam's arm in the first quarter, because that means that you realize, oh, God, maybe we can't run the football. Or maybe we're going to reverse it, and we're going to try to run it later. But it's not a situation in which I want to have him throw 35 times, even though he did well against the Rams, if I want to limit the possibility for mistakes in terms of them.

36:59Gregg Rosenthal:I might push back on you a little bit there, Shook, because I don't think they want to be an everything on Sam's arm team. Certainly agree with you there. I do think they want to pass early and create explosives early against this Patriots defense because then they can put their own defense in their own A-plus plan. and that's kind of been their formula. I think you could really set your watches and clocks on the amount of deeper strikes or explosive plays they try to manufacture or create as early as they possibly can in this game because even going ahead three points, that's enough for Mike McDonald to stay in his A-plus defensive line.

37:40Gregg Rosenthal:I know we're not talking about the defense yet.

37:42Liam Coen:Not allowed, not for 11 more minutes.

37:44Gregg Rosenthal:But I'm just saying that's why I think you might see them, Yes, they want to run the ball throughout the game, obviously. And they did. I think that's a credit to them that they did against the Rams where some of those perimeter runs were working. But Ken Walker only averaged 3.3 yards per carry, and the success rate was very low in that game. But they kept chopping at it, and they kept chopping at it because they have to keep selling that play action. I don't think that prevents them from actually taking those shots early, especially trying to design up some things to try to stay in that 8-plus plan.

38:22Liam Coen:I think the Patriots just have to be worried about them out-athleting, like the Seahawks out-athleting the Patriots. We put so much on X's and O's, but it's like whose players are better? The Seahawks players are better overall. The Patriots have a lot of talent on the defensive side. But JSN and Walker, I think A.J. Barner is a really important part of their offense. Like, can the Patriots continue to be one of, if not the best tackling teams in the league? Like prevent yards after catch, prevent the Rashid Jahid big play and just like make them really work for it. Because it does feel a little old schoolish Patriots of like the sound fundamental, sometimes a little boring, although they've been blitzing a lot, type of defense and just like, are you going to get a situation where it's one-on-one against Spillane or, as much as I love him, Christian Ellis, you know, like Jack Gibbons.

39:19Liam Coen:Like Carlton Davis is not as fast as what he once was. Like I don't think I've heard the words Jalen Hawkins or Craig Woodson yet. They're starting safeties, and they were put in conflict at different times of the season. So can you just like out-athlete this Patriots team? I think that's possible, and that would be trouble.

39:38Nick Shook:And that's why I think that stopping the run still matters because it at least takes away or reduces one of those elements. Because even in the passing game, it doesn't just have to be deep shots. You have to be worried about that with guys like Shahid on the field and JSN, as we know what he's done. But you also have to consider how well they use Kenneth Walker in the passing. But if you can reduce them down to throwing, then it makes it just a little bit easier and also increases the chances, maybe only slightly, that Caleb on Chaison gets home, forces a fumble. Because if they're going to get out-athleted, then they need a couple of things to go their way to level the playing field.

40:06Nick Shook:And you do that by getting after Sam Darnold.

40:08Gregg Rosenthal:Yeah, and on the Seahawks side, though, I think they can create these disadvantageous matchups against those players that you just pointed to, Greg, because we saw it. We saw it start happening where, you know, they weren't necessarily sure. I think they would say now that they were sure that Sam Darnold was going to play well. Of course they were. Yeah. But in the moment you saw Clint Kubiak brought more scheme. Like he's lining JSN up in the backfield to try to get him in advantageous matchups against players who are maybe weak spots. He's doing the same thing with Kenneth Walker, who is such a threat to your point, Nick, in the passing game as well, especially if they're looking at this as a game where if your linebackers and safeties are potentially weaker spots on the field, as well as you are, as good as you are as a tackling defense, if you're the Patriots, you still are not trying to have those guys schemed up against, you know, an extension of your run game, that short screen game or that like wide perimeter passing game with the running back because it is still a mismatch.

41:05Gregg Rosenthal:And so I really feel like you're going to see a lot of guys moving in different positions or pre-snap, especially to try to get their best athlete against Patriots.

41:17Liam Coen:It'll test the communication, but I do think that's probably one of the strengths of the Patriots defense. Look, they've been on fire. In terms of EPA play, four of their best five games of the season are the last four, which is in a row. It includes an insane Week 18 game that didn't matter at all. The weather was involved. We've been through all this, but they are playing their best, which is why I haven't thought this was as big a mismatch as people think. In weighted DBOA, which is weighting the end of the season more than the beginning, these are the best two teams in the NFL. There's a decent gap between the two, but they actually have the Patriots second.

41:54Liam Coen:I think Ken Walker in pass pro could be an issue. All the fantasy heads and everyone on Twitter and Blue Skies, like why why aren't they playing Kenneth Walker every snap even in the championship game and you know it's it's because they don't totally trust him so like that that matchup against like Jack Gibbons or someone could work out so well with Walker as a receiver but could work out really poorly if the Patriots are blitzing so that that's just like one little game inside the game thing I'm walking is could Ken Walker get his quarterback hit I think about what I've seen

42:27Nick Shook:at these Patriots media availabilities this week, and they have all their personnel walking around, and they're all wearing Patriots-branded stuff, and I keep seeing this one guy with this jacket, and on the back it says, bring the fight. And if the Patriots are going to bring the fight to the Seahawks, I think it's going to be dialing up the blitz, getting after them, knocking them out of their rhythm early, trying to tilt the game in your favor so that you can capitalize. Because like you said, Jordan, the last place you want to be is trailing to the Seahawks and letting Mike McDonald's defense go to work.

42:53Nick Shook:So I think that starts on the defensive side of the football.

42:55Liam Coen:There are so many games watching the Seahawks this year where they really didn't look great for, like, a hot minute, like the Panthers game. Same included. And then suddenly it's an avalanche. Or suddenly the avalanche is in the first half. Yep. What I mean to say is, like, it sort of happens all at once. And then it's overwhelming and the game's over. And they can do it in the first, the second, the fourth. It's worrisome.

43:18Gregg Rosenthal:I like what you guys have said about the blitz because if I'm calling a blitz at, what, nearly 40%, right, according to NextGen? since week 14 that they have been doing. And even, I would say, even higher through the postseason as well, just eye-testing that. Do it whenever you have a poor pass pro guy on the field. Do it whenever you're afraid that there – even if Ken Walker ends up being the hot on that play. I'd take that. I'd take it every time.

43:44Nick Shook:Because then you just make a one-on-one tackle in open space, and they're a great tackling team.

43:47Gregg Rosenthal:Yes, exactly, exactly. And I just think that this is Mike Grable and him just like – he's just plotting, you know, and he's just got the – You know what I mean? Like, you just feel like, and you kind of heard it. Like, Mike McDonald was talking earlier this week. I read in some of the quotes, which is like, yeah, you know, it's a lot of time. It's a lot of time to think about stuff. And that's exactly what I just, there's something in the works. I just know it. I feel it in my bones with Grable. Some little wrinkle, whether it's situationally or whether it is his defense against this offense that is full of, you know, mom stars when they're at their best, maybe minus like the right side of the line or the interior right side of the line and like really trying to flip their own math against them.

44:30Gregg Rosenthal:And that's exactly one way to do it. Yeah.

44:32Liam Coen:Ollie Connelly pointed out on Monday, so I don't want to just keep repeating it, but they're going to, they're going to be have a big X on Anthony Bradford, the right guards back and Jake Sundell, the center. So I did a little Patriots radio, like the team radio today that felt like a coming home. And one of the hosts there was like, I am putting all my money on Milton Williams, Super Bowl MVP, plus 1 ,600 or whatever it is. And I was like, that's not bad.

44:58Gregg Rosenthal:Aaron Donald couldn't even win Super Bowl MVP.

45:00Liam Coen:I mean, Malcolm Smith could do it, so you never know. It can happen. That would be fun.

45:06Garett Bolles:America.

45:07Gregg Rosenthal:They're back. Oh, my God.

45:09Liam Coen:They are not back. Last little note, Bill Barnwell had this in his Super Bowl preview that when the Seahawks use two tight ends, when they get heavy, teams almost always match it with their base defense and when that happens uh the Seahawks perform like the best offense in the league essentially and that probably is what the Patriots are going to do but when teams like keep their all their defensive backs on the field the Seahawks have struggled a little bit there so so what will the Patriots do there we'll see that was

45:39Gregg Rosenthal:a huge talking point like by Greg Olson too through the course of the season because teams were staying in base so rigidly against the Seahawks 12 personnel.

45:52Liam Coen:Staying heavy, yeah.

45:53Gregg Rosenthal:And so that's what's interesting to me is like, where are their wrinkles to be found, right? Because you have to think that might be one of them. If you know they're going to pass out of that formation, why wouldn't you put your best pass defense on the field? A.J.

46:07Nick Shook:Barner, Super Bowl MVP, A.J.

46:09Liam Coen:Barner. A.J. Barner, watch him. Watch him in motion. He is kind of the skeleton key that unlocks a lot of it. All right. I think we've done it in under our time. Barnwell, by the way, we've got a little time. A delightful dinner with him last night. Nate Tice in the mix. Will Gavin. A meeting of football minds. What a crew. It was quite a crew.

46:30Gregg Rosenthal:That's like everyone's in a shacket.

46:34Liam Coen:I was in an oatmeal sweater. Ooh, spicy. That's what I was wearing yesterday. Just for you, Greg. Patriots. Look. I'll have you start, Jordan. What do you think is the most important thing for this Patriots offense to survive Seattle, especially early in the game? I'm really thinking about the first half and before all the adjustments they're coming in.

46:57Gregg Rosenthal:Pass pro. Yeah. I mean, we're looking at an offensive line that I think we had measured expectations over. Certainly, you were quite measured in your expectations. But your prediction has sort of come true. They've really struggled. And keeping, it's not just about, because I don't have any doubt that Drake may could come back from getting hit or adversity or whatever. And the shoulder is something to think about in this case. I know they say that it's fine and all of that. But when you are getting hit like that, you just have to think about it. But it's, and it's not so much like him battling back from pressure, right?

47:35Gregg Rosenthal:It's more so like the rhythm of the offense and the timing of the offense. And one of its biggest weapons is how they use the timing, how they get to the ball quickly, when they mix up tempo and not, when they do the quick strike passes, when they don't, when they choose to run, when they don't. All of it's rhythm and sequencing. And Josh McDaniel, we talked to a bunch of guys this week about this, that he's one of the best there is at sequencing these types of things together. If you're getting to him to mess up that timing and those play sequencing enough, you are in trouble right out of the gate.

48:07Liam Coen:One thing I liked, and it goes off what you said earlier, or McDonald was saying, that's a long time to be in these two weeks. I like that the Patriots kind of talked about, you know, Bable said how McDaniels convinced him, don't install the game plan last week. Like, that's sort of a first couple times to the Super Bowl mistake. Keep a lot in your pocket to show the players so that there's some fresh stuff at, you know, the Wednesday, Thursday, Friday practice late. Like, add some things late in the mix. So he's like, okay, that's good. I'll keep it in my pocket. So maybe it's that kind of wily experience.

48:39Nick Shook:Experience, I like that a lot. Not to go back to the running game again, but I think about the Patriots' offense and how much they've struggled in the playoffs. And then I just came across a very useful note from our NFL research team, which is that since 2000, only five teams have won the Super Bowl with a running back averaging fewer than 85 playoff rushing yards per game. Three of those teams were the Patriots with Tom Brady. So all due respect for Drake May, but if he's dealing with any sort of shoulder thing.

49:05Liam Coen:So what is it? The Antoine Smith year has to be won. I would guess, as Sonny Michel, does it show? Okay, okay. I have years. I have years. Give me the years.

49:17Nick Shook:2001, 2014, 2016. Yeah, and one of them was, yeah, the LeGarrette Blunt year two.

49:22Liam Coen:Their running game is stunk in the playoffs, just not as much as the passing game. All of it's kind of stunk. I mean, their EPA per play, it's really crazy, went from first. They were the best offense in the league. That's not adjusting for opponent, but they were the best offense league in the regular season. if you take their playoff number, they would be 30th. Rushing, it's 25th, 26th. They've just stayed mediocre. A lot of that is because Travion Henderson's snaps have been incredibly negative. Not just negative plays, but his pass road has been a little iffy. He has 57 yards and 24 snaps.

49:55Liam Coen:They just took him off the field, essentially. I don't think that's going to be the case. I think it was a little bit of a weather situation. that what was happening when it really started snowing against Houston and then against Denver was like they did not trust him anymore, and he wasn't productive. As bad as Ramondre's numbers kind of look, he's under four yards per carry, but he's like three and a half. I mean, Travion's under two. It's like two, two and a half. It's tough, but I think they need him. I think they need his explosive ability. I think he will be a part of this game because I think the only way that they're going to win against Seattle is by getting some chunk plays.

50:32Liam Coen:They're not going to slowly move the ball. No, no.

50:34Gregg Rosenthal:And you know what? And chunk plays are able to be gotten, surprisingly, because this Seahawks defense is the best in the NFL, maybe minus the Houston Texans, but the Texans are obviously not playing right now. This Seahawks defense has seemed so infallible and stout all season, but explosive plays in the playoffs have been possible, especially two weeks ago against this team. And you really need to have those field flipping, especially if they get a lead on Seattle early. You really need to have those field flipping explosives that Travion Henderson, maybe he's really not consistent in getting you doubles right now, but he still can hit the home run.

51:19Gregg Rosenthal:And especially to take some of the teeth out of that pass rush. Hell, Drake May might be the one getting you a scramble explosive early on in the game to try to, like, set a tone for this offense.

51:31Liam Coen:I mean, this has been the best thing he's done. His two best rushing games. On early downs. His two best rushing games of the year, just yardage-wise, are in a class.

51:38Gregg Rosenthal:And so for me, it's like you can't think about the shoulder, right? Like, you're thinking about it, but you can't think about it. Like, you've got to, like, let him cut him loose. It's like the Josh Allen button, right? Like, you've just got to go.

51:48Nick Shook:Yeah, and I feel like Mike Vrabel's pregame speech is just going to be going into the locker room being like, there is no tomorrow. Like, I don't care what injury you're dealing with. You have months. Feeding his head against the locker room. Yes. I'm going to bloody myself to make you realize that you've got to lay it all out there on the field, which I don't think they're going to have a problem with. But that's where I think it does come back to the offensive line. It's been a storyline with this team all year. You have a young left side with two rookies. You have the three veterans starting at the center going to the right.

52:11Nick Shook:Obviously, we focused a lot on Will Campbell and his struggles against premier edge rushers. He is going to be targeted in this game by the Seahawks defense. But what's going to make it so much harder for this Patriots offense is the way the Seahawks play their defense. Robert Mays did a great video on this like a week or two ago that I checked out last week in which he explained why the Seahawks defense is on the cutting edge because they can stay in nickel so much, because they have this not unique but close to unique personnel grouping that allows them to be stout against the run despite being in sub package the entire time.

52:37Nick Shook:So then you must find the wrinkle. And where is the wrinkle if it's nowhere else than your quarterback running, which is why I think that's a key part of it, which is why he could be the X factor beyond the traditional idea of a quarterback playing well in the Super Bowl.

52:48Gregg Rosenthal:I would add, too, that the things that the Patriots do well when things are going well for their offense includes like utilizing their tight ends effectively and those crossers and in the middle of the field and also against Seattle you know being a personnel neutralizer heavy or light whatever the Patriots want to do like Seattle normally would be able to defend that extremely well and stay and not have to sub and it doesn't matter if you go tempo on them because they don't have to sub a lot of that is because of Nick Imanwari yes who pulled up with a limp in practice this week and he is expected to play according to Mike McDonald.

53:24Gregg Rosenthal:There are also videos of him, however, walking out of a car into the hotel with a very visible limp. So it's like he is your X factor in being able to, what we've talked a lot about on this show, staying as a personnel neutralizing defense where it does not matter if they think they're going to disguise, run, or pass. You don't care. You can play light on big or big on light, and it doesn't matter because you have the speed and size either way. but this might be a case where you're very very much watching him during pregame warm-ups if you

53:56Liam Coen:are josh mcdaniels he's shooting that thing up he's he's feeling no pain um but yeah that's not what you want if you're the seahawks during super bowl week when you get that pool report i think it's kayla kayler who was writing it this week for the my girl you know the pro football writers and yeah that nick and minori leaves during practice it's not great the the most important thing in the entire game to me for for the patriots is drake may's internal clock i actually think this playoff run and his struggles is more on him than actually people are being a little kid glovey with him like the offensive line has not been great when they've lost they've lost like catastrophic being so quickly but three four of his fumbles were on him being on indecisive was that on him being too unaware of what's going on of him resetting after there was initial pressure and then trying to like cock the arm back again and then losing the ball.

54:54Liam Coen:His pressure to sack rate is all the sacks. That's his rate. No, it's for real. It's insane. It's 15 sacks out of 33. Like the pressure rate isn't even that, that crazy partly because you know, in the Denver snow, like they've been like, Like, he just, his eyes have been fast. He's been a little bit of what Sam Darnold is when Sam Darnold's not playing well, where he's going through those reads fast. It's just a little, it's a little frenetic. And you can almost see the moment in the Chargers game where it happens. Because, like I said, I went back and watched these. The Chargers game was a normal game.

55:31Liam Coen:He had a couple fumbles in the game. But that was the Patriots offense we've seen all year. And he was being patient. And that's a similar type of defense that he's going to go against. most similar maybe in the NFL that Jesse Minner is running with the Chargers to what McDonald's doing and he was patient in that game and I think played pretty well but then there were a couple of those quick pressures he loses the ball a couple times and it's like he never he hasn't really gotten out of that and I'm just hoping that a little sunshine some dry air will help out both him and Travion because I don't I feel like they're not bad weather players right now and

56:03Gregg Rosenthal:that's also that's also what I meant about the timing like messing with their timing because it's a Drake, it is a Drake May question too, of like, if you can quick pressure him, even some of the delayed pressure stuff that like makes you think about, or like double pump or something like that can lead to some of these types of issues that we've seen.

56:20Nick Shook:And that's what makes him such a, this game, such a perplexing prediction.

56:23Gregg Rosenthal:Yeah.

56:24Nick Shook:Because you don't know which version of Drake May you get, because you've seen both in the same game. Because for all of the struggles with his internal clock, he's also hit the deep pass, you know, against the Texans to put them away as sleet as falling. And then you take into account the bad weather that they played in throughout the playoffs. Is that a factor? Is he going to be more on time and more confident in the Super Bowl? Or is the pressure of the moment in only a second year going to play a part? And I'm glad, Jordan, that you brought up tight ends a few minutes ago because I love our research team.

56:50Nick Shook:But I did come across a mildly disrespectful note, which was that the headline was, which non-star pass catcher will step up to help their Super Bowl debutante quarterback? And it dives into Hunter Henry. Hunter Henry, who was Drake Bay's number one target last year. I mean... Hunter Henry, who caught a touchdown pass against the Chargers in the playoffs, he said that was his favorite touchdown catch of the entire season. Today he said that. That might be the biggest spot. Is he a star, though?

57:16Gregg Rosenthal:I think he's been a name. Listen, on the Stefan Diggs scale, you're definitely the lesser-known player. But he's been doing it at a high level for a long time.

57:26Liam Coen:Look, they could use more out of Diggs, who's not really been a factor in the playoffs. You talked about winning in the middle of the field. sometimes it comes down to just the players have to play their best they have six drops the Patriots in the playoffs Henry has a couple of them they've been one of the most sure-handed teams one of the best contested catch teams all year they haven't been in the playoffs like they've dropped some open passes and they haven't been coming down with the one-on-ones like booty booty's been their number one receiver in the playoffs but they need they need a game you They need just these guys to step up because they're not going to be that open.

58:03Liam Coen:They're one of the least open teams in the league. Like Drake may like throwing it into tight windows. And he's good at it. And look, booty in a tight window. He's a fearless throw. You know.

58:11Nick Shook:Look, all I want is for when Pop Douglas scores a touchdown, I want Zolak to say not to say that he came out of nowhere, that he's been completely absent for the last month.

58:19Liam Coen:Because he did it in the playoffs. And you know what? I also took away watching it. Like, May's tried so many. He kept us going to those deep shots. Oh, he does not care. And over. And during the season, it worked out. But if he sees a one-on-one, like, he's going to throw it. So take your shots.

58:35Nick Shook:Yeah. You've got to get an advantage somewhere.

58:37Gregg Rosenthal:Give me some Kyle Williams snaps. Got a stat for you. Oh, it's always Kyle Williams. Thanks to Bill Smith for putting these together for next-gen. Fearless throws. Drake May led the NFL in tight window completion rate this season. Nearly 50 % completion rate in tight window throw, otherwise known sometimes as big-time foes.

58:56Liam Coen:Big-time foes. But, yeah, he doesn't care.

58:59Gregg Rosenthal:He is fearless. We talked to quarterbacks this week on this set talking about staying fearless, even if you make mistakes. Drake May totally embodies that. I do want to just say I think we've got an even match on special teams because I love how both of these coaches use their special teams units as a function of the offense.

59:17Liam Coen:Seattle's one of the – you know, the numbers would say that Seattle's one of the best special teams units in the league, the top two or three. The Patriots are not, like, as a – But situationally – As like a coverage unit.

59:27Gregg Rosenthal:Situationally, though, the Patriots special teams unit and just the coaching thoroughly across. I do think that this is...

59:33Liam Coen:The punter kind of stinks. The kickers, eh. So far, rookie. The coverage, they're fine. They're fine.

59:39Nick Shook:You know what? Despite my saying that he was going to cost them a playoff game or something in the playoffs, I think Borg Alice has been better than we think. He's been fine. He's been fine.

59:47Liam Coen:Hasn't been tested. We did it. We got it in and under the time. I already did my picks because we wanted to get it out with Cynthia early. Of course, I'm taking the Patriots to win. it would be silly not to. Do you guys have a fun effect? Do you think it's high scoring or low scoring? I said with Cynthia, and I know we're counting down here, but we will let them pick the game. We're done with the offense and the defense. And actually, I think this is the perfect part of the show to make it time for charging into the weekend, presented by Apple Card for all your game day purchases. Yes, they get the meat of the show when you guys make a pick.

1:00:26Liam Coen:I said with Cynthia, to answer your question, and she completely agreed with me, I felt better about it going over the number in terms of the over-under than I did about either team covering the point spread or winning. I do think it's going to be a higher-scoring game than expected. It happens a lot in the Super Bowl where the game just feels longer for some reason in the Super Bowl. I think we're going to have points. I don't trust the Patriots to keep a big lead, And I think if the Patriots fall down, they're just going to keep swinging. I think we get points.

1:00:58Gregg Rosenthal:That's interesting because I'm actually taking the opposite tack, both in pick and in situation. I really can see this being kind of a rock fight in some places, and I can see this being a relatively low-scoring game. I am picking the Seahawks to win by 3 points, 17-14. Wow. I know that is outlandish to hear, but every so often, and we've seen a couple of them, every so often, and that really surprising, ugly, fun game happens. And this is ripe for it to me with two coaches at the peak of their powers, two defenses that are playing as well as they have been and is better than almost anybody in the league, if not everybody, and two offenses that are going to try a bunch of different types of things over the course of a game to find these little creases, these little advantages.

1:01:48Nick Shook:So you're saying we're going to get like a first half that's just a big feel-out half?

1:01:51Gregg Rosenthal:Can't wait.

1:01:51Liam Coen:I mean, that's the exact final score of Super Bowl XLII, the first Super Bowl I attended, where the Giants defeated the Patriots with a helmet catch game. Everyone remembers it's like a great game, but there was like no points until the fourth quarter where they each got a touchdown.

1:02:06Nick Shook:It's back when we appreciated defensive games. That would be a disappointing scoreline. Real ball. Yeah, ball numbers. We appreciate real ball. I am actually kind of along for the ride with Jordan here. I do think that it's going to be a lower scoring game for many of the reasons that she just listed it and all of the time that we just spent breaking all of this down because it's just really hard to find the edge for the Patriots in this matchup unless they create a couple of turnovers to bring it closer. I have the Seahawks winning 24-13, and it becomes 24-13 because the Seahawks have a fourth-quarter takeaway that becomes points that is the dagger.

1:02:39Gregg Rosenthal:Nice.

1:02:40Liam Coen:I appreciate you had the guts.

1:02:42Gregg Rosenthal:Creativity. To have, like, almost a blowout.

1:02:46Liam Coen:No, it's close, but on the scoreboard it looks like a blowout. I think that's how Jordan feels it's going to happen, but she's too nice and doesn't want to hurt my feelings. And it wouldn't. It wouldn't. I respect you speaking your truth. Turnovers. You had two teams that had been a little sloppy with the ball. Unpredictable. And yet they made it all the way here. That's charging into the weekend presented by Apple Card. Apply for Apple Card in the wallet app today and start earning daily. Cash back on all your game day purchases, from tickets to tailgate munchies to merch subject to credit approval.

1:03:20Liam Coen:Let's take a break. When we come back, you're going to hear our interviews with Garrett Bowles, All-Pro Protector of the Year finalist, left tackle of the Denver Broncos. He was great on the Broncos about playing offensive line, and then also a little bit on the Patriots we talked about, too. He has not let go of that loss whatsoever. We'll also talk to Chris Mad Dog Russo, and then we'll say goodbye on the very end. First, a little break.

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1:07:35Liam Coen:Get almost anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well-groomed lawn delivered, but you can get a chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake, that's a no. A Philly cheesesteak, that's a yes. An afternoon stroll, sorry, no. A burrito bowl, happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. A box of fine wines, yes, that is happening. Delivery is on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? No, well then. How about some french fries? Yep, a little escape, no. A delicious bowl of grapes, yes, yes, that. How about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there, but barbecued prawns.

1:08:11Liam Coen:Order it and it's on its way. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. All right. We are so thrilled to be welcoming in Garrett Bowles, the all pro tackle of the Denver Broncos and also a finalist for the inaugural NFL Protector of the Year Award. And, yeah, that's just a handful of offensive linemen. One of the best to do it in the league right now. Garrett, you got a chance to make history as the first Protector of the Year Award winner.

1:08:58Garett Bolles:Yeah, it's pretty amazing. I'm just grateful to be even a finalist, to be nominated by my peers and obviously the crew that selects it. I got great teammates and great coaches that push me every single day to be the best version of myself. And I couldn't have done it without them. I have a great team around me, my agent and my beautiful wife, my uncle that runs my foundation and runs my day-to-day things. And then obviously my mom, but my wife is the ride-and-die soldier for me. And she pushes me to be the best version of myself every day.

1:09:30Gregg Rosenthal:Was she the one kind of encouraging the touchdown catch?

1:09:33Garett Bolles:I feel like that had her written all over it.

1:09:36Gregg Rosenthal:I feel like she's drawing that one up on the side. Listen, I wanted to win MVP.

1:09:39Garett Bolles:I'm not going to lie to you. I was striving for that when they told us that the big guys can play. I was like, oh, I'm definitely going to do it. And then we went out to practice, and they're like, can you really catch the ball? And so I was catching some passes from Shador, and obviously, you know, they let me do it. So I was like, why not play the game and have some fun with it?

1:09:57Liam Coen:You got a score. I think you got a two-point conversion or some sort of conversion. And I heard you say you wanted to show how the offensive linemen are the best athletes. How about, like, did you feel like not keeping your feet after that first score was not making your case for that?

1:10:13Garett Bolles:Listen, I really was, well, I caught my toe on the ground, so I was like, I'm just going to roll with it and have some fun with it, you know, try to, like, make it look like even a cooler catch. But I caught the one. It wasn't supposed to be a touchdown, but they took it away. So then I caught the touchdown, then I caught the other two catches for the two-point conversions. So I had three catches total. Should have been four, but I was just trying to get as many tries as I can. So I was trying to let the big man eat. And just like what Jason Kelsey said on his thing on the ASP, give him the ball, they can't be stopped.

1:10:47Garett Bolles:And I was feeling good. But it was so much fun. I mean, scoring a touchdown in the Pro Bowl game at 300-plus pounds as a left tackle was pretty cool.

1:10:54Gregg Rosenthal:It's incredible. And, you know, Greg and I always say on our show, like, we want to be the change, right? Like, protector of the year is great, but MVP, come on. We want to start again.

1:11:02Garett Bolles:I was trying. I was trying my best. So now my team gives me a hard time to, like, oh, what's better, winning the Super Bowl or the MVP of the Pro Bowl? I'm like, oh, come on, guys. But it's been fun. It's been fun. It was fun to watch my wife. My son was probably the most excited of me scoring a touchdown. He was going crazy up there. But it was a good time for all of us.

1:11:22Liam Coen:We had you on at dinner. You know, people who say, like, the Pro Bowl games, like, you know, adults are like, come on, we want the old game. There are people that care, and there are kids, because my son loves that game, and we were watching you enjoying it. I was thinking about, you know, we were talking about you want to be the change. In our mind, like, be the coverage that we want to hear, like, no one ball. And one thing I think that's tough for people who didn't play the game, like myself or fans watching. Or me, shocking. is knowing what to watch for with offensive line play. So I was thinking I would ask you, if you were telling a fan what to watch for in terms of basics of how to tell who's good, who's not, or even what should they look for when they're watching offensive line play so that they can be smart and know who to vote for for Protector of the Year.

1:12:18Liam Coen:Not that they're voting.

1:12:19Garett Bolles:That's a great question. And I'm glad you asked me that because a lot of people don't know about offensive play and what we do. And they just see, you know, the big names and they just vote for those guys, even though, you know, yeah, they're good players and they have the name because they've been in the league for a long time. But they may not, you know, be the best. And that's just reality is every year, everyone, you never know who's going to be the best. And you never know who's going to, you know, go from, you know, you got a stack of you, you got to earn your credits. And it's like what you do, what you can do for me now league.

1:12:48Garett Bolles:And that's really what the NFL is. and being a great offensive lineman is all about moving your feet, how you can stay in front of somebody. Yeah, it's cool to make big-time blocks and put guys in the ground. Like, that's cool and all, but, like, I think the most cool thing is, like, how can a big guy, 300-plus pounds, move their feet, stay in front of their guy, mirror a defender like a Miles Garrett, you know, Joey Bosa, all these freaks, avatars that I call them. I call them avatars. And stay in front of them, move their feet, and block them and push them off the edge. And that's really what it is.

1:13:19Garett Bolles:is how can you stay in front of your guy, move him around, and make sure that your ball – opening up holes for your run game and then protecting you for your quarterback.

1:13:27Liam Coen:I think just watching them, that's the start. Don't watch the ball. Watch them. If you watch them play to play, you start learning and then watch the feet. I love that.

1:13:35Gregg Rosenthal:The most valuable lesson I ever learned was when I was shadowing scouts at the senior bowl, and they were watching O-line drills, and everyone's face is pointed down toward the ground. And I'm like, okay, well, what are you guys watching? And they said ankles. Ankles and feet. That's who we're watching. mobility and how the joints flex and change and how fluid and agile a player can be at that size. I mean, you've got a line full of them, Garrett. This is the Denver Broncos offensive line. That's one of our favorite groups in football to watch of any position this season and full of big personalities and camaraderie, it seems like, from afar.

1:14:11Gregg Rosenthal:Being in the room, not just finding complementary skills, right? First of all, how that works when you're an offensive line and you're building out what a room looks like on the field. But personalities, too. Like, you guys have to be so mentally, non-verbally locked in all the time. How do you build that, and how does, like, a team go about building a roster like that?

1:14:32Garett Bolles:Yeah, I mean, I've been in Denver for a long time, so I've been on some good lines, and I've been on some – I'm not going to say not bad lines, but not the best atmosphere or the culture or what you put into it, you know, because we've had so many changes of coaching staffs. And what a lot of people don't realize is like this is the second time in my NFL career that I've had the same O-line coach for three straight years. You know, I had Mike Munchak from 19, 20, 21. And then I had Zach Street from, what was it, 23, 24, 25. So if you really look at it, like that's crazy to really look at it. And in between, I've had so many different O-line coaches, so many different change that can hurt a team.

1:15:12Garett Bolles:And it starts from the trenches. and you know technically over you know the last couple years denvers had the best defensive line in football you know arguably with von miller earlier in the days to marcus where to now you know nick benito and and cooper and you know zach allen and dj jones and malcolm roach like freaks and achers that we have to block every single day hopefully we get jfm back and you know all those guys that i love dearly and appreciate them for pushing me to be the best version myself but the old line it's five guys working together as one it's a very cohesive unit and we have a lot of good people on our old line and from mike mcglinchy to bringing him in from san fran and having that culture that he's had over there to coming in here and we got quinn minors what a freak of nature he is we got luke waltenberg great center and then you know ben powers my ride and die soldier on the old line love him dearly so grateful for him and all the things that he does for me pushes me to be the best left tackle in football and you know obviously and then me on the left side.

1:16:11Garett Bolles:So we have a really solid five guys. You know, we played so many games together. I mean, when we played the Eagles this year and then after that, you know, Ben went down, we didn't skip a beat. You know, Matt Pert came in, Alex Poucho came in. So we have a lot of guys that are depth in our O-line. And I truly believe that if we're not the best O-line, we're one of the best O-lines. And, you know, I think we're the best. And I think, you know, more people are going to start to realize that.

1:16:36Liam Coen:Yeah, I think it's part of Sean Payton's secret sauce. I want to get some of your thoughts on the game coming up. This is part of our preview show, so you're going to put on your analyst hat and give us a little bit of a scouting report since you just played these Patriots. But I think one thing the average fan misses with Sean Payton, and it goes back to his time with the Saints, and I thought Zach Streif was kind of a creative pick because he didn't have a lot of experience to be your offensive line coach. What is it about a Sean Payton team and offense that a great offensive line follows? Is there something specific that he has his, whether it's the system or the way that he has his line coaches coach?

1:17:20Liam Coen:Because whether it's Drew Brees or Bo Nix, that's the through line. And I think that's been maybe the key to why Sean Payton's had these great offenses over the years.

1:17:29Garett Bolles:Yeah, he loves super athletic tackles, and he loves big monsters in the middle. I mean, that's just reality. And I think what separates us from every single line in football is our pass block win rate. And it's not just me, it's everybody across the board. And, you know, the guard and center has to protect the depth of the pocket, create the pocket, and we've got to create the edges and make sure that Bo's comfortable. I mean, we gave up the fewest amount of sacks in all of football. And when you can pass the ball in this league, which is becoming a passing league, I know every O-lineman wants to run the ball, but we love running the ball too.

1:18:07Garett Bolles:We wish we could run the ball more, but Sean wants to call the pass, and we're ready for that. We embrace that. It's the moment of truth block that we talk about all the time. You know, what are you going to do in the – what is your mind and your body going to do in the final moments on the biggest stage in front of the brightest lights, in front of the most fans? And we practice those moments day in and day out. and it's those two-minute drives. It's those crucial moments of the games that we practice so that when we get in those situations in the game, we don't skip a beat. And everyone can say, hey, we won 12 games and one score games this year, and that's the reason why we were 14-3.

1:18:43Garett Bolles:Well, when's the win in this league? It doesn't matter how you win. It matters how you finish. And we finish the games how we want to, but it came down to us creating a turnover or stopping them on defense, which is what we praise, and us going down there and putting points on the scoreboard. if it's a game-winning field goal or if it's seven points like we did against coming back, scored 30 points in the fourth quarter against the Giants. So we're great pass blockers. We're great listeners. We've got great detail, and the sky's the limit for this whole line.

1:19:11Gregg Rosenthal:I know we want to get your thoughts on this challenge with the Patriots, especially that defensive front, and I know you know it very well. But something you said there really sparked for me because I feel like the offensive line has such a role to play in situational football. Like, you know, on the outside, yes, winning that many close games, that many one-score games, people can say that's good situational football is winning those games. That is creating an edge in that phase of the strategy of football. But you guys as an offensive line are so crucial to that, whether it's getting to the ball with the right timing, some of the cadences that Bo is going to throw out behind.

1:19:50Gregg Rosenthal:Can you kind of open the door a little bit further about the role that you guys specifically play in creating that edge with like Evan, Rothstein and those guys?

1:20:00Garett Bolles:Yeah, I mean, obviously, like I said, it's the cohesive unit that we have and the love that we have for one another. And this is the closest group I've ever been around. And yeah, we dog each other and make fun of each other and tease each other, not even make fun of each other. It's more like teasing each other and seeing who we can get the most sensitive or just funny little jokes that we play. But at the end of the day, I love these dudes, and I truly do. And I wouldn't have said that five years ago, and I probably wouldn't have said that three years ago. But I truly love these dudes. They mean the world to me.

1:20:36Garett Bolles:I love how they just let me be myself and be the best version of myself. And, you know, obviously, you know, I can be difficult sometimes, you know, just with who I am in person and being loud. And a lot of people don't realize how loud I am, but I am. You got the pipes. I know. We like it.

1:20:53Gregg Rosenthal:We encourage it on podcasting. You can get into broadcasting here.

1:20:56Liam Coen:Nice cadence.

1:20:58Garett Bolles:That's what I did in school. I went to radio and communication, radio broadcasting in school at Utah. So something I love to do. So who knows? Maybe I have a future in it.

1:21:06Gregg Rosenthal:Friend of the show.

1:21:08Garett Bolles:The boys are great. and we have a great O-line coach that pushes us to be the best version of ourselves, you know, spending time with each other, going to O-line dinners. We have a spot where we always go, Los Dos, which is a Mexican joint, right around the corner from our facility where we go every Thursday. We all eat the same meal. Some people get Diet Cokes. We all have our same signature drink. We love each other, and it's all about that camaraderie, spending time together in the offseason, checking in with each other, making sure we're good. You know, this is the first O-line group that I've had where we have multiple dads, you know, because most O-line groups are young.

1:21:47Garett Bolles:And, you know, I've been the only dad in the room for so long. So, you know, Mike is having two kids. Ben's having two kids. Luke has his first. And, you know, Forsythe's having a child. So all these people are having babies. And I really think it just grows up a man when they have a child. and their priorities change of what can I do to be a better person, a better version of myself. I need to be that better person so that my child knows what their dad is. I think that just speaks volumes of our group and where we're going and how we're approaching every single day and what we're about to become.

1:22:22Garett Bolles:We want to show the whole world what we're about, and we're a tough group to play.

1:22:27Liam Coen:So this Patriots team has been sending a lot more pressure in the postseason. They had to pressure us.

1:22:34Garett Bolles:If not, they weren't going to win. Okay.

1:22:36Gregg Rosenthal:Yes, I love it. Let's hear more about that. I love it. I love it. Yeah, this is such valuable insight. I mean, I want to – So you're saying – We don't want to bait you into anything.

1:22:47Liam Coen:No, if they're just rushing for – I'll tell you this.

1:22:51Garett Bolles:If we had Bo Nix, it would be a different ballgame.

1:22:54Liam Coen:I love it.

1:22:55Garett Bolles:That's all I'm saying.

1:22:57Liam Coen:How –

1:22:59Garett Bolles:And they can say what they want, whatever they want, but we lost by three points. It wasn't the snowstorm. It wasn't anything. Stiddy did everything he can. Loved that dude. I'm so grateful he came in and handled the business he did, but it would be a different ballgame if we had our quarterback.

1:23:14Gregg Rosenthal:How would you attack this, especially the interior defensive line of this Patriots group?

1:23:20Garett Bolles:Well, they're the 28th-ranked defense when it comes to short yardage. That's just reality. Stats don't lie. 28th or 26th. So they're at the bottom of the holes in reality. I mean, that's just the truth. Stats don't lie. They struggle in short yardage. especially short very short you know anywhere from three to four yards you got to run the ball you got to run the ball on third down you got to punch them in the mouth you gotta you gotta stick on your double teams you gotta drive your double teams up they're gonna pressure they're gonna turn they're gonna slant they're gonna you know out charge and they're gonna do all those things but you have to run the ball um do i wish we ran the ball when it was fourth and one yeah go back in time sure but you know coach made the play call we got to execute it we didn't and that was the difference in the game.

1:24:02Garett Bolles:If not, we were going up 14 to zero and now it's a different story. I want to be here talking to you all. Right.

1:24:07Gregg Rosenthal:Yeah, it's a mixed bag. We're glad you're here, but we would love to keep watching you.

1:24:12Liam Coen:I'm cool that you're here. I like it just like now. No, I feel for you because what were they doing in terms of a one-on-one matchup? If you got any scouting report, like you match up a little bit against Chason, they have a young guy, Ponder, who was out on the edge against you. Obviously, Harold Landry was not in that game anything uh that that you saw when you're going up against these guys one-on-one

1:24:34Garett Bolles:um well chase on didn't i think i played him three plays or four plays so i wanted him more trust me

1:24:41Gregg Rosenthal:um oh they were moving him away from you a little bit they were pushing him over to the right side

1:24:45Garett Bolles:but we don't we won't need to say anything like that um but no he uh he's a great player um you can attack him get underneath his skin get him talking a little bit he gets frustrated which is okay um you know i like when people talk but i also like to get you frustrated so um because if i get you frustrated i can drive you off the ball and do things but no they have two monsters in the middle and i and i respect both of them um i think they're great players um and i'm excited to see what happens but seattle has a great line i mean you got abe lucas you got zay ball you got gray you got all those guys that can bring it um i think their left tackle is back if i believe But he signed a big deal this offseason.

1:25:25Gregg Rosenthal:Charles Cross, yep.

1:25:26Garett Bolles:Cross can dominate the run. What makes Seattle special is play-action passes. I wish we did more of those in our game, get them running. And they got freaking H receivers, so they're going to be chasing the tails off trying to chase those guys.

1:25:40Liam Coen:It'll be an uphill battle. What do you guys think? We'll never find out. I mean, what, if you had Bo, wouldn't you have won? Yeah.

1:25:49Gregg Rosenthal:I mean, I picked you guys to be in the Super Bowl. I'm just, that's on the record.

1:25:52Liam Coen:She hadn't even with Stidham. And I thought, yeah.

1:25:56Gregg Rosenthal:We're on the record on that.

1:25:58Liam Coen:It's hard to play those because then the whole game's different then. But, yeah, you guys would have been the favorites for a reason if you had Bo Nix.

1:26:05Garett Bolles:What about this game? Who wins this game?

1:26:07Gregg Rosenthal:Ooh, that's a great question.

1:26:09Liam Coen:I mean, don't spoil the rest of our content. No, but I grew up in Massachusetts, so I'm putting my cards on the table to you. So I'm going to pick the Patriots because I'm going to pick for what I want to have. It sounds like you do. It sounds like you don't think they really should be there.

1:26:23Garett Bolles:No, not that they shouldn't be there. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying it would be a different outcome if we had our starting quarterback. I think it was devastating for all of us when that happened. I thought it wasn't true. And then Bo took us there. And he had a phenomenal year. And when you lose a guy like that, that's a leader of your group, not just the O-line, but your team. and his confidence level, his swagger, and his ability to run and see the open field in different ways, it's a tough piece to lose. Obviously, we were right there what we needed to do, but we just didn't get it done.

1:27:01Garett Bolles:But I'm excited to see what the future holds for us.

1:27:04Liam Coen:It's been really cool. I've watched your career. It's been nine seasons now. Vance Joseph, who's now your defensive coordinator, was your head coach when you came in. You've been in Denver long enough that you've seen two different extended Vance Joseph eras. You were there for the Vic Fangio era, and we've seen how you've improved and improved, and I think you're a great player development story of a guy who came in as a pro, but kept raising his level and raising his level and raising his level. And it's like it doesn't have to stop raising after four or five, six years. And you kind of alluded to the fact that now maybe the longer people have gotten to watch you, they're recognizing what a great player you are and what a great man because you are one of the finalists for the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award.

1:27:52Liam Coen:That's going to be on Thursday night. You're the NFLPA Alan Page Community Award winner. So we really appreciate like everything that you do off the field. And yeah, you got a chance to be this inaugural NFL Protector of the Year Award. So very cool and very pleased that you could join us on NFL Daily. Thanks, Gary.

1:28:11Garett Bolles:Thank you guys so much. Truly means thank you so much for your support. And I have mad respect for both of you. So thank you.

1:28:18Gregg Rosenthal:Appreciate it.

1:28:22Liam Coen:We are here with one of my all-time favorites, Chris Mad Dog Russo from Sirius XM Mad Dog Radio from First Take. I was on the flight over here, and I saw him honking about James Harden trade. Like, get you a man that can do both. I'm not going to put you on the spot about why did they take Anthony Simons away from my Celtics. I love Anthony Simons, the Inferno. But really great to have you back. Always a pleasure. Nice to be here. Preview show. We're going to get right to it because, frankly, I've already seen, and I don't like to do this, but I've already kind of seen some of the things you've said about this Super Bowl.

1:29:00Liam Coen:And, frankly, it's a little disrespectful to the Patriots, two of the people that I respect the most, You and a friend of the show, Nick Wesseling, are both saying this thing's not going to be close.

1:29:11Jourdan Rodrigue:Well, I'm not going to say that. I'll say this. I think the Patriots have a good chance to win the game. I have all the respect in the world for Vrabel, and I love May. I think they need a little help from the Seattle offense. They need a Donald throwing an interception. They need a fumble. They got the help with the Chargers. Herbert was bad, offensive line. Stroud, obviously, four interceptions, and Stidard, two turnovers, and they didn't kick a field goal. when they should have kicked the field goal. If Seattle plays a 7-0, got to kick that field goal. If Seattle goes out there and plays a clean game and doesn't like they did against the Rams, for instance, I don't think the Patriots can beat them.

1:29:52Jourdan Rodrigue:I like Seattle getting out of the NFC West. I think Seattle's strength of schedule much better than the Patriots. I think the NFC better than the AFC. So from that standpoint, even it up, I do think that the Patriots need a play.

1:30:04Liam Coen:At this point, what is strength? The schedule really matters. Now it's just one game. You've got to win one game.

1:30:11Jourdan Rodrigue:I agree. But I agree with that. You never know one game. But if they played a 10-game series, Seattle would win at least six, seven. I would give you that.

1:30:20Liam Coen:That's fair. I would give you that.

1:30:21Jourdan Rodrigue:Maybe seven. So from that standpoint, it's only one. But you'd like to see they would win 70 % of the time. The spread is four and a half. So as a result, the Patriots, this has got to be one of the three or four times they'd win in this kind of spot.

1:30:33Nick Shook:Well, that's the beauty of it, right? Because these teams share a lot of similarities. And they've also demonstrated some consistency in that Seattle has been excellent offensively through their two playoff games. They have. The Patriots have not been excellent offensively but have made some key plays when they've made it to. They have. They may. But their defense is playing the best it has all year. So one thing's going to have to meet another. You can't be consistent again through this game, especially when you don't play a series and you play one game. And that's the avenue, I think, where, like you said, Seahawks can make some mistakes and the Patriots can capitalize because that is what they have done in this run.

1:31:03Jourdan Rodrigue:And I think you made a great point. The Rams' defense is bad, okay? They did not play well. The Niner defense, although Patchwork and Salah did a very good job, it wasn't a great defense all year. The Patriot defense is very underrated. So, and Drabel's a good coach. Belichick, he'll do a good job devising something. I would think that the receiver, you know, Belichick used to think, let me take away your number one option. So I think that receiver won't go crazy. So I do agree. This is the best defense that the Seattle offense is going to go up against in a long time. So that is an unheralded advantage.

1:31:43Jourdan Rodrigue:Seattle's going up. The Patriots are going up against good defenses. Houston, good defense. Denver, good defense. Chargers, good defense. Seattle really hasn't gone up against a lot of good defenses. That could be something to watch on Sunday afternoon.

1:31:55Liam Coen:And an unfamiliar one to them, too, after playing two division opponents in the playoffs. So you live in the New York area. I believe you're in Connecticut. So you've watched Sam Darnold up close and personal for a long time. And I know you know this, but weeks 10 to 18 this year after a great start, it was okay. I wouldn't say you saw the Jets' Sam Darnold, but he wasn't necessarily seeing the field as clearly in the second half of the season. Do you think that old Sam Darnold was in there? It's in there somewhere, and they can try to get him out.

1:32:31Jourdan Rodrigue:I thought it would show up in the Ram game, and it didn't. He also played very well second half, especially the fourth quarter on December 18th, when they were down 30 to 14, and he brought his team back. That was significant. He didn't do anything in Week 18 against San Francisco. They didn't need him to. He was 13-3. In the playoff game against San Francisco, he threw 17 times, 124 yards. Now, he didn't make a mistake, but he didn't do much in the game. So I agree with all that. but he's played so well against L.A., albeit not a great defense, that I'm going to basically think going in he'll play pretty well.

1:33:07Jourdan Rodrigue:But I still think anybody can turn the ball over. Strip sack, fumble, whatever, interception, deflected pass. I think the Patriots are going to need a play or two like that to win the game. Now, I'll tell you something else. Don't let this Shahid kid make a big play. He ran the punt back against the Rams. He ran the kickoff back against San Francisco. First play last week against the Rams. He had that 51-yard catch down the right sideline. Don't let him make a big play because he's one of those guys. He touches the ball five times. He makes two big plays. I mean, that makes a big difference in the game.

1:33:41Jourdan Rodrigue:Keep an eye on that.

1:33:42Nick Shook:That leads you to the question of what matters more, familiarity or lack thereof or experience. And you look at this Patriots defense, and it's a blend of young guys and veterans. But who gets taken advantage of in plays like that? Who gets caught on a double move and Shahid ends up going deep and makes a big play? But at the same time, does the familiarity lend itself to walking Sam Darnold into a situation in which he's not familiar with the Patriots defense? He sees some things that he hasn't seen before. Maybe he hasn't been able to prepare for it because he has not gotten the on-field reps against them.

1:34:09Jourdan Rodrigue:Maybe that's the evening factor. I think you hit it right in the head. I think that you made an excellent point. I think that Patriot defense.

1:34:17Liam Coen:That's two for sure. Excellent points. That's a good one, too. Mark them down. Give me a chance. Let's get a chalkboard.

1:34:22Jourdan Rodrigue:I'll throw you one in a sec. But I do think that Patriot defense is the best defense that Seattle has played in a while. And I think that is something to keep an eye on. And again, Seattle's played, the Patriots have played great defenses here for four or five weeks. Houston was a great defense. The Broncos, Patriots scored three points. It's a very good defense. So that is something that I think is something that maybe if you're a Patriot fan, you hope that Dono now deep into the pool. Wow, they're better than I think. They're not the Rams. and that something could happen to help the Patriots get that extra possession or two.

1:34:57Liam Coen:We've only got you for a few minutes more. So there's only one person in the world I want to ask this question about. Because like me, you love football, but you also love a little professional tennis. Yes. And to bring it back around to that, as I always want to do and never am able to. You do sometimes. Where Alcaraz is in his career, Carlos Alcaraz, right now. Oh, here we go. Do you think he's a comparison as almost like a tennis Mahomes? Because to me, Mahomes helped usher in this era of NFL football. He sort of pushed the sport forward of what a quarterback could do at the highest level. And to me, that's kind of where Alcaraz is right now.

1:35:41Liam Coen:And like Mahomes, I think is going to have a chance to go down.

1:35:44Jourdan Rodrigue:As the all-time greatest.

1:35:45Liam Coen:Or near the top of it. I think he will.

1:35:47Jourdan Rodrigue:I definitely think he will. The thing about Alcarez that you're not sure of is the motivation level. He's already won all four majors. He's won seven. He's 22 years of age. You know, Federer was motivated. Djokovic is still motivated. Nadal loved to play. You know, loved it. I don't know Alcarez well enough where, you know, he gets a little bored. So, I mean, that can happen. I think Sinner will always have Alcarez to push him. So that will help Sinner. Alcarez, who's going to push him? So, I mean, I think that would be the one thing I'd ask about Alcarez. But he's already got seven. He's 22 years of age.

1:36:26Jourdan Rodrigue:He's equally excellent on all the surfaces. He's beaten Djokovic at Wimbledon. He now has won three hard courts titles. And we all know he's great on the French at the clay. And the thing about Alcarez that you like the best, he's fearless. He plays better when his back's to the wall. match points last year against center, down two sets. Down obviously a 4-2 and a fifth set to Zavera the other day. He responds very well in those situations. So if he stays motivated and is into it, he's 22, he's got 15 more years of playing. I mean, he can win, you know, he can win 30 majors. He really can.

1:37:04Liam Coen:Maybe May is a comparison because I feel like May, I think the best players in big moments and I know he hasn't had a great playoffs. don't play any differently in the big moments. And Alkares to me is a very loose player. And if anything, I feel like Drake May sometimes is a little too loose. He is not afraid when the pass rush is around him. He's almost unaware sometimes. But he's going to go for the... If they lose, I think he's going to go down swinging. And he's going to go down maybe making big mistakes. But he's going to be doing it playing loose, not playing tight.

1:37:34Jourdan Rodrigue:He's not a lot of scar tissue right now for May. He doesn't have a bad loss. He doesn't have a game-defining interception, you know, which helps him. Until he has that, you don't know how he's going to respond. I could see May playing very well in this game. I definitely can.

1:37:48Nick Shook:You know, I also like that comparison, though, because scar tissue, Alcaraz doesn't have a lot either. It doesn't really. What's the beautiful thing about complacency, the sneaky, beautiful thing? All you got to do is get caught slipping one time, get beat one time, and that fire comes right back.

1:38:01Jourdan Rodrigue:Alcaraz does not have a lot. You know, he lost, obviously, to Djokovic at the Olympics. He lost to him that one year in Cincinnati. It was 120 degrees. He's lost a couple, but for the most part, he's excellent in finals. He's played very well against center. He lost Wimbledon to him, but he's played very well. And May hasn't, you know, last year you throw it out. It was a rookie. They were bad. And this year it's been a cakewalk. Easy schedule. Hasn't had a whole hell of a lot to do. So he might go into this game a little carefree, which is what you want him to do. You don't want them to be tight.

1:38:36Liam Coen:Our producers are going to kill us for all this tennis talk in the middle of the Super Bowl preview. Last question for you. Longevity. You got the juice, dog. Like, how do you keep the juice? You talk about, like, trying to be the greatest of all time. You've been on air. You've been talking for the last six hours. You've been talking for the last 30 years. What is the key? 40.

1:38:58Jourdan Rodrigue:40.

1:38:59Liam Coen:What is the key? I didn't want to age you. Yeah. What is the key to keeping that juice?

1:39:03Jourdan Rodrigue:You love it. If you love it, that's the most important. You can't fake it. If you love sports, and I was just a kid. I was an only child. And sports was sort of my brother. And my father was not a huge sports fan. Loved the Yankees, but he wasn't a huge sports fan. And my mother's English, so she wasn't a sports fan. But I grew up in a sports-loved area in Long Island. I grew up in a period where the Knicks won a championship. The Rangers were pretty good. The Mets won the 69 World Series. Namath with the Jets. So I had all that going on. It surrounded you. And it was just one of those things that, you know, I always got a kick out of it.

1:39:39Jourdan Rodrigue:I gifted the gab. And I always had a kick out of it. So you're right. There's going to be a point where the fuel is going to run out. But right now, thank God. I don't know. The tank is still, there's still gas in the tank. Let's put it that way.

1:39:52Liam Coen:More than just gas in the tank. Love having Mad Dog on the show. Of course, from Sirius XM Radio, Mad Dog Radio, and First Take on ESPN. Thanks again.

1:40:03Jourdan Rodrigue:You guys are the best. Keep it up. Appreciate it. Thank you.

1:40:07Liam Coen:All right. That was Mad Dog. Great job with him, Nick. Great job with Garrett Bowles, Jordan. We're getting out of here, and we're getting out of here with our heads intact, which your dream indicated was not going to happen. What a dark dream Jordan had last night.

1:40:25Gregg Rosenthal:Oh, it was horrible. I woke up in a cold sweat. It's one of those things. I mean, I know you guys are the same way where you panic, like, before a flight, for example, and you just jolt awake thinking, I'm going to miss the flight. I'm going to miss the flight. Well, you know, got a really reasonable bedtime after the first night we were here, kept jolting awake first because I was worried I was going to be late to something. And then once I finally got back to sleep, I had this vivid, horrible dream that anytime either of us would repeat each other's answer or say something that we'd already said, even on another show previous that week, we would be injured.

1:41:01Gregg Rosenthal:and like maimed it just maimed and I'm like I thought you said

1:41:05Liam Coen:we took a headshot there it is

1:41:07Gregg Rosenthal:no I took a headshot with the from the hydro flask the first the first night I thought we were assassinated no and it's and it was vivid and I woke up in a cold sweat and it was it was awful yeah it was horrible I would love to know

1:41:22Nick Shook:how I was injured although you know what kneecaps oh I liked it better when the story

1:41:26Liam Coen:was like incredibly dark

1:41:27Nick Shook:yeah that spoke to my that pales in comparison to my nightmare. My first year working in the newsroom in LA, I woke up in a hallucination dream thinking my bed was in the newsroom and Ely was yelling at me.

1:41:39Gregg Rosenthal:Isn't that the worst when you have a vivid dream like that and you spend five minutes thinking that it was actually real and then being horrified by it? Getting out of bed.

1:41:47Liam Coen:Working with you guys, that's the real dream. Hey, we're here. Can you even call this work? It's like, hey, we're just talking about football. Where else would you rather be? Great show. Really enjoyed all our guests. We're going to have some big names coming up on Friday, including Kyle Hamilton is going to be on the show, Christian Watson of the Green Bay Packers, and many more. So looking forward to that. We'll also talk a little bit about the honors winners. We'll find out who the MVP and all the awards, who gets them tonight at honors. But until then, let's get out of here. Radio Row.

1:42:26Nick Shook:Where the buzz has not died down.

1:42:28Gregg Rosenthal:But you know what? Positive progress today is you're not saying something incredibly serious as a dog is doing flips behind you.

1:42:36Liam Coen:I'm not, but you reminded me. R.A.P. Chris Wesley. We had a show in the feed, me talking about Chris, but five years to the day. We remember you. We love you. See you next time.

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1:45:02Gregg Rosenthal:This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.