Texans Trades, Maxx’s Market and Biggest Offseason Questions

17:59Gregg Rosenthal:And now you're running counter to the operation. But that could be fun. It's okay to feel like that would be fun.

18:05Patrick Claybon:Okay, that would be fun. that would be fun. I just don't know. I hate the fact that it probably means the end for Alvin Kamara there. I don't know. They just gave him an extension a year ago, so then they take a cap hit. Could he just be the backup? I guess that could be fine. All right, let's move on. Let's move on to our segment, our questions, our big questions post-combine. This can be almost anything, but it's looking ahead mostly to free agency and this offseason, maybe how the combine impacted that we could have some draft stuff in here. But as we set the table, I just see so much cap space and I see so many teams that I think are going to have to be ultra aggressive.

18:41Patrick Claybon:And I think these trades on Monday, like a week before the tampering window opens, are a sign that we're just going to have a ton of trades because it just makes more sense to improve your team that way when there's only so many good free agents out there. Ali, what is your first question you want to throw out?

18:59Ollie Connolly:my number one is how will the chiefs replenish their offense both in maybe trying to find another rotational piece along the offensive line but then trying to chase fireworks i think that they're in this really unusual rare spot for a team who consider themselves in the mid-dynasty portion to wind up with a top 10 pick in the middle of mahomes's prime they probably never thought they would get that they probably don't think they'll ever be in that situation again and if you just look through the draft board and how it's falling you can go through the three Ohio State guys, Mendoza, one or both of David Bailey or Reuben Bain, and you start knocking out who could go, and you quickly get to a short list of Jeremiah Love, whether he goes early or not, Kenyon Sadiq, whether he goes early or not, Carnell Tate, who could also go higher, or one of Bain or Bailey.

19:45Ollie Connolly:So one of those four guys is likely going to be available to them, and I just wonder how all in they are in saying, let's go chase fireworks in the offseason. We don't have reliability at receiver our tight end is aging our running back room stinks let's go and chase the the through

19:58Patrick Claybon:the roof prospect on the offensive side of the ball i love that but i i hate that you know free agency comes first so it's kind of like they're gonna have to prioritize like where they see value most and where they think they can get affordable firepower in free agency and if that's travis etn now then that that kind of crosses off jeremiah love you would assume but this is such a a rare opportunity to have that traffic. And yet I, I can't think of a real analog for where they're at right now, because, because they have Patrick Mahomes, they're always going to be in the middle of their championship window.

20:39And yet,

20:40Patrick Claybon:man, they have so, so many needs. I think on this roster, they have some really great players to like outside of my homes and in Creed Humphrey. And like, you have a handful, but they have so many needs, Patrick like with like because the defense just didn't have like a lot of juice last year and they have so many of my top 101 free agents that are out there Jalen Watson Cook obviously at safety Leo Chanel is a free agent they just cut Jawan Taylor which I think made sense but that opens up another spot Travis Kelsey is getting older is Rasheed Rice going to be available it's just it's just like so much stuff it's really putting the onus on Brett Veach and Andy Reid to kind of like do it again and it's the hardest part of being great in the nfl yes and what makes that

21:26Gregg Rosenthal:considerably harder is we expect mahomes to just come back and carry it but it's it's going to take time uh for him to be that pet version of patrick mahomes which was the most dangerous runner like even late like later stage patrick mahomes was the most dangerous runner on this team where if it's not ETN, if it's not Love, what are they going to do? You can't bring this version of Kareem Hunt and have Isaiah Pacheco clearly, isn't it? So there has to be some sort of player.

21:57Patrick Claybon:Love's not getting past the Saints, I don't think. But I don't know. I guess you don't know, though. You're right. It's a good top 10. It's a good year to be ninth. Because it feels like, tell me if I'm wrong, Ali, but it feels like, I don't know. There's a there's like a there are a bunch of good like it's a good top of the draft. And yet then I feel like you don't want to be 15 in this draft or something. No, that's right.

22:21Ollie Connolly:There's like a really like ballooned middle class where from and this happens almost in most draft cycles, particularly when you get the best players being at what's considered the non-premium positions. And the league just can't help themselves because they consider off ball linebacker or move defensive piece non-premium as they pass on Kyle Hamilton and Brian Branch and on and on down the list you go. So if Stiles and Arvel Rees are going to go as early as we expect, then yeah, and the two tackles, one of the top tackles is probably going to go in there because the league can't help itself. You suddenly will start getting to, will the Chiefs have a crack at either Love or Sadiq?

22:56Ollie Connolly:But yeah, you're right. I think from 16 to 44, it's pretty much a wash. There's a lot of like rotational pass rushes. Do we love them? don't we love them receivers who fit certain body types and certain skill sets so it's kind of eye of beholder by positional tier for a good round and a half yeah there's somebody somebody's there

23:15Gregg Rosenthal:like you mentioned that the litany of needs and just how it can impact kansas city somebody's going to be there uh at nine they conceivably could just go bpa which is what everybody you know in theory should be doing but they they really can make a case for it they could do that

23:31Ollie Connolly:Patrick and I agree on the needs but wouldn't you if you're in that position just say we have to chase blue chip at premium position I know I just made fun of premium positions but how often are they going to be in a position to draft someone if he's there someone like David Bailey with that level of first step quickness I really would if I was them just circle like four positions and say let's just go shoot for the moon we're not going to be here very often we can go into Frenchy to find uh you know volatile cornerbacks who may have a career year with us for one year then we move on from the following year.

23:58Ollie Connolly:That's how I think I would approach it if I was there.

24:00Gregg Rosenthal:They've got the blue-tip player at the premium position. That's true. You're good in that capacity. There's a lot of talent that they're going to lose here in the next three to four years, where focusing on position seems like hustling backwards.

24:15Patrick Claybon:And they got a premium player, we think, at a premium position at the end of the first round last year in Josh Simmons, who they are going to feel great about moving forward quickly. who's the quarterback you want though because of all these chiefs questions we just brought up like who is starting for them week one hasn't even come up I have now settled on I want it to be Kirk's landing spot I don't know if that's going to work out it's it seems insane but I think that's like a perfect like actually Kirk go win you some games for four or five weeks and then he's just like having fun as as Patrick Mahomes his backup I don't know if you're going to do better than

24:53Ollie Connolly:that i i think it has to be marcus mariotta i think he's exactly what they want and will be efficient and stable enough and you may not win you the game but he's not going to throw the game away for you and kirk probably i think has like two throws in him to maybe one week actually get you the game that you don't expect to get uh but not much more than that i think kirk's going to want to have a real shot to be a starter somewhere yeah it's a real strike to my theory that uh

25:16Gregg Rosenthal:marcus mariotta is actually alex smith in a silicon mask where it would just it makes too much sense for that. But I've been saying Kyler Murray for months now, you know, just in the capacity of, yeah, there may be more money somewhere else, but Kyler could just, you know, throw up a middle finger to the establishment and play for the empire.

25:37Patrick Claybon:That would be incredible. All right, Patrick, your first big question here.

25:41Gregg Rosenthal:So first big question, looking through playoff teams and near playoff teams, trying to divide them up into who is simply trying to maintain, like the Seattle Seahawks, where they're, you know, facing big departures at cornerback and wide receiver potentially, you know, the Rams trying to just keep on to this last few years or however long it's going to be of Matthew Stafford. And you kind of try to put the Eagles there, knowing their capacity to do so. And then the teams that are pushing, pushing towards building off of what they accomplished, like the Chicago Bears, the Patriots, the 49ers, potentially the Chargers having that opportunity.

26:16Gregg Rosenthal:and then I got to the Buffalo Bills and I looked at their drafting at 26, the cap space, an issue. They do have change in the area, but it's a part of the previous regime. Are the Buffalo Bills maintaining or are they pushing right now?

26:38Patrick Claybon:I think they're pushing while remodeling, which is, it's not impossible to do, But I think the defense is going to change dramatically and they don't have as much flexibility, I don't think, as they want. It'll be interesting to see like how they create cap space because they have negative cap space right now. But how can you have to look at it as a two to three year process? But maybe they're in a little bit of a spot where the Rams and 49ers were, for instance, going into the Rams, going into 23, the 49ers going into last season. where like, yeah, it feels like it's a step back, but it really like shouldn't be when you have Josh Allen.

27:18Patrick Claybon:If you can make enough moves around the margins this year, you can be creative. They're going to have to hit on a lot of like mid-tier guys that are going to have big roles for them. So Brandon Bean, like he kept that job, Ali, and like it is probably the most challenging offseason that he's ever had.

27:35Ollie Connolly:Yeah, I don't think it is a two, three-year process when you have Josh Allen, you either have a parade or you failed. I mean, that's just the reality of the world they live in. And it's what's tricky, I think, for Bean particularly is they need to completely remodel the defense in terms of the kind of archetypes of players they have for the new scheme that they're going to run. And then on offense, they still have to do the cosmetic surgery, figure out which linemen they're bringing back, what they're doing at receiver, all that kind of stuff. So there's just more on the plate than I think you would expect, as Patrick said, when you walk in with starting healthy in week one, one of the two best quarterbacks in the NFL and feeling like we have maybe 12, 15 moves we have to nail to really feel good about ourselves.

28:13Patrick Claybon:Yeah, it's hard because they have a ton of free agents that I think they're going to say goodbye to that have been around there for a while. Like guys like Matt Milano, guys they brought back to like Jardavious White and Jordan Poyer, which I don't think will hurt as much. Joey Bosa, I don't think is going to be back there. And you're hearing like, OK, maybe they might be in the Shahid sweepstakes or they might get in on some of these receivers. And it does just feel like a situation where the salary cap is somewhat real. not in the sense that they couldn't figure it out to fit everyone in but that there's just so many more teams with more resources that are going to go over the top for these premium pass catchers or pass rushers where like i don't see it when when people are trying to think like maybe they're a trey hendrickson team like i don't think they're going to have get have a chance to go that big

29:02Ollie Connolly:i think they're going to have to look at either a guy on a rookie contract still whether it's like a brian thomas student you just blow someone out the water to go and do that or you try and chase a distressed asset and hope it's improved, whether it's Jordan Addison, someone like that. Can you steal someone away cheaply? You put them with Josh Allen, everyone has a party, but there's just a lot of work to do with that much maneuverability.

29:23Gregg Rosenthal:And in terms of making the maneuvers, because we we've seen if you want to go like with a parallel with Adam Peters coming from the West Coast to the East Coast, and then you saw the sequence of events that led to 49ers coming to Washington, and where you wonder, like these partnerships are operating across the league. Like we have tree proliferation as well as like these front office relationships. Where is that coming for Brandon Bean?

29:51Patrick Claybon:Carolina has been where it has been coming from. Is it still? Yeah, I don't know.

29:55Gregg Rosenthal:Like there's been so much turnover now. Like where is the influx of this capacity of needs before free agency starts? Like when do these conversations and how do they happen? and you start to wonder like, oh no, like this feels like it's going in a difficult spot, even more difficult than I initially thought.

30:15Patrick Claybon:Yeah, I'm such a wimp because we were been pretty hard on Brandon being in this podcast, but then we have him on as a guest and it's all just, you know, plain footsie. Meanwhile, I got Eric probably in the background wondering like, can you ask him why this man has helped to ruin my Januaries the last handful of years? He is really up against it. Let's take a break. On the other side, I mentioned Max Crosby quickly. That's a big question for me. Let's talk about where his market may be.

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34:34Patrick Claybon:Back on NFL Daily, I mentioned Max Crosby. The fact that trade terms got out there to pro football talk in terms of them wanting two firsts and a player, the more I thought about it, the more I thought, okay, well, that's a starting point. and that's what Shook reminded me on Sunday night's podcast and that's an indication of a willingness to actually trade. Then on Monday morning, Albert Breer throws out casually that he thinks this deal can and it sounded like probably will happen. He thinks it could happen this week that it's very sensitive all around because Max Crosby doesn't want to be seen to be wanting out.

35:15Patrick Claybon:Mark Davis doesn't want to be seen to wanting to trade their best player, there actually is a lot of mutual, I think, appreciation. And if he stays there, it's not the end of the world. But in terms of their team build and where he's at in his age, it might make sense. And he could join a team that's more ready to win. And then Breer has a list of spicy teams that are monitoring the situation, that are engaging with the situation. I love this list. The Dallas Cowboys, the Chicago Bears, the Baltimore Ravens, the Buffalo Bills. The Patriots, the Eagles, and the Rams. The last one really stuck out to me as like, man, I could see the Rams doing something like this for the right price.

36:02Patrick Claybon:Where are you at, Ali, in terms of thinking if Crosby would get traded and who strikes your fancy out of that list?

36:09Ollie Connolly:I think he is going to get traded. The price I had heard was a first, a third, and a quality player. And I think the books are sitting right there with an offer of first a third and one of either Luke Gidecki or Kalaja Kansi, which will, I think, just cross the threshold for it to be a third. It is a lot, but trade's hurt. If you wanted to acquire a player like Max Crosby, right at the fringe of his prime, you've got to go and give up some assets that you don't really want to do. It's going to hurt you too. So I think that's kind of the asking price. And if you look at the other teams outside the Rams, who have kind of that spare first round pick, they wouldn't have been necessarily expecting to have in that range.

36:43Ollie Connolly:it's hard to find a comparative player to someone like a Kadecki and Kansi at that age with that talent where then it does become two ones and a three and that just feels really rich for a bunch of teams on that list particularly someone like the Patriots who've had so many misses in the draft that you just can't bring in over expensive veteran and give up that kind of future capital I think so the books to me feels like the the easiest landing spot for everyone involved

37:08Patrick Claybon:There's also the spy tech connection with the Bucs, and Patrick was just talking about it with the Bills, and that is how a lot of deals do get done. I think you're right. The Bills, to me, seem like such a long shot because of the reasons we just talked about. The Patriots and Eagles actually don't make sense to me for where they're at in terms of wanting to give up all those picks and in the money. The Bears are a little up against it. It's not what the Ravens typically do, although I think it would be fun. the Cowboys actually of those teams and the Rams probably make the most sense in terms of the ones that Breer mentioned.

37:43Patrick Claybon:But you made a convincing case. And as much as, Patrick, like I appreciated Max Crosby making like the Monday night week 14 like Raiders recap that they got in, like more watchable and more like I kind of want him in a better home and on a better team.

38:03Gregg Rosenthal:Yeah, and I think despite the alleged protesting from Max Crosby, I think he would like to be in a place where he's able to win. You look at some of these players, and the marketing is a big part of it, and you have to market yourself as a guy who is working harder. Max Crosby is an incredible athlete. He's one of the more gifted athletes in the NFL. And, you know, a lot of people attribute the volume of plays because there was a couple of years span there where he just never came off the field. You know, it became essentially worthless to continue that in a lost season in Las Vegas. But you just don't do the things that Max Crosby can do without being incredibly gifted.

38:48Gregg Rosenthal:but you know to keep that up to keep up the appearances it's you know I just want to control what I can control and come in here and lunch pail these conversations about a trader are also going to involve a deal and so the trade partner to me has to be a team that can make that lucrative offer long term because like trading for Max Crosby a first plus on some kind of win now thing yeah it may be an interesting idea for max but i don't i don't like that deal for the bucks

39:22Patrick Claybon:i mean get a key or can see are good players uh like i i'd feel a little uncomfortable about two picks two pretty good picks especially a first and and a good player and if you got me to like a second a third and one of those like but then it's a lot but i know i know it's gonna to cost a lot i also know max crosby's like ridiculously good yeah he is he's pretty dominant

39:47Ollie Connolly:and i think the books are in particularly in a strange window in which this could be the final year for everyone in town um and so there's a real pressure they have been desperate for pass rush help of just can we find a one-on-one winner i think desperation breeds you changing your asking price from a second to third to let's just do the one and bleep it and go all in at least we'll line up with max crosby to open week one and i think losing gadeku i think it's one of the better right attackers league would be a silly move to make but once you start feeling that desperation you feel like you can internally develop talent um then you could maybe talk yourself into it and you've got spy tech your buddy you're having beers you're on the phone he starts convincing you of it it's good for everyone buddy let's get this thing done i could see why jason light would do it then maybe wake up with a hangover with a couple of regrets the next day obviously there's

40:32Gregg Rosenthal:there's tears uh between but but i think if you can try to consider like is there a cave on thibodeau type option for you that allows you to improve your pass rush in a certain capacity without limiting other aspects of the team long term. Maybe that makes a little more sense.

40:50Patrick Claybon:That would be fun. And they also have to consider the Steven factor. A lot of people who listen to NFL Daily are saying that John Spitek, the GM's mentioning of my friend slash trainer Steven, is becoming the best annual bit on the show. And I think trading Max Crosby would be tough for the Raider Nation and for Steven out there. All right, Ali. All right, we should pick up the pace, get through as many questions as we can. What do you got?

41:14Ollie Connolly:What is the Vikings plan at quarterback? Do we have any ideas? Does the staff not like J.J. McCarthy? Are they going to go into free agency? Is it Kirk? Is it Geno? Is it Kyler? Is it Tua? Are they going to call Derek Carr? Are they going to trade for Tanner McKee? What is the plan?

41:27Patrick Claybon:I am all in on the Geno resurrection 2.0. Let's make this happen. But the only thing I feel confident about in that entire question there is that they do not believe in J.J. McCarthy. Like, I think there is a greater chance that J.J. McCarthy is not on their roster in week one than there is that he starts week one.

41:49Gregg Rosenthal:Do you think that's crazy? It feels borderline excessive. Like, I mean, not to, you know, jump back on the bills thing, but the amount of conversation about, you know, their their, you know, early round receiver, earlier round receiver that wasn't panning out. And he's like the most hated man from the front. I like J.J. McCarthy and the not so secret whisper campaign against J.J. McCarthy out of Minneapolis, maybe even more fervent than any conversation.

42:19Patrick Claybon:I'm not saying it's fair. I'm just saying for him to start week one, I think the injury and injury needs to happen for the guy that they want to start week one. Like it's going to need to happen. Cause I don't think they are going to want JJ McCarthy. And then I could absolutely see him going in the next week or two in a trade or if things are going well enough in August that he goes in a trade in like in August.

42:43Ollie Connolly:I think they have to be the front runners for Anthony Richardson. Right. So you can't move on from J.J. McCarthy. If you bring in Anthony Richardson, if you're concerned about the health and well-being of the guy, you really want to consider starting come week one. And that might be the most combustible quarterback room in terms of.

42:59Patrick Claybon:So wait, Richardson would be the backup in that scenario?

43:03Ollie Connolly:I think you would bring him in hoping we're going to try and start Anthony Richardson. We think we can tap into all the potential. That's still pretty volatile. J.J., I agree with you on the dislike of J.J. I think when your whole kind of philosophy from when you wake up in the morning to go to sleep, as Kevin O 'Connell does, is about attacking the middle of the field in football and ways to kind of rip apart the middle of the field shell. And you have a quarterback in which by week two, you're saying we can't do this stuff. Let's remove everything from the playbook that I've spent my lifetime building.

43:29Ollie Connolly:I think it can get pretty corrosive. Then there's the behind the scenes talk, too. So I agree with you that he's not going to start. It's just what is the break point? Is it Kirk on a cheap contract? Is it betting on Kyler where you would have similar issues with building the offense that you do with J.J. McCarthy? I have a hard time thinking they'll just completely bail on him being on the roster.

43:47Gregg Rosenthal:I'm drawing a hard line no matter what happens at least nine years starting experience in the NFL to play for Kevin O 'Connell and the Minnesota Vikings. At this point, I don't want to see another like, oh, they're investing in this quarterback because if you go from McCarthy to Anthony Richardson, we could be in a similar situation. And now another like, you know, sacrificial GM is on the way out to, you know, because they went with the wrong guy.

44:15Ollie Connolly:Like, could I could I at least interest you in a package of Kirk plus Richardson? Right. Steady hand. Get through the first couple of weeks. And then behind the scenes, they've been working with Anthony Richardson. And now here comes the renaissance.

44:25Gregg Rosenthal:It's got to be vets.

44:27Patrick Claybon:I'll take I'll take that and make it Gino and Anthony Richardson. But yeah, I think Gino and Kirk. Yeah. they laid it out you know dan graziano and jeremy fowler where they they made it really sound like and i i suspect you can kind of get a feel of like all right what's real what's not i i suspect they they got a line in here that their tears were kyler and gino is tier one uh for like the old guy and then tier two were were like was like cousins and maybe rogers if for some reason he you know, shook loose or Flacco even. And tier three is like Richardson. But in that scenario, I think like, yeah, I think they're getting rid of J.J.

45:09Patrick Claybon:McCarthy because I don't think they could see Anthony Richardson as a potential starter. Because if you're going to do that, you're trying to win now. All right, let's keep asking questions. That was a great one though. Patrick, you're up.

45:19Gregg Rosenthal:All right, is a released Kyler Murray scenario going to absolutely ruin the market for Malik Willis and force Malik Willis to go to a team that's actually good, but he's not getting paid what he should be.

45:34Ollie Connolly:I don't buy it. I think that the family guy thing with the there's anything in the box, it could even be a boat or whatever, applies to Malik Willis. You can talk yourself into this untapped franchise potential that Greg's spoken about, where with Kyler, I think teams will feel pretty complete on who he is as a player, and it's kind of where they're at in that kind of development arc. If they want to maybe hang around, win nine games, maybe squeak out a division in a bad division, they'll bring Kyler on board. But if they're shooting for the moon or it's a rebuild, the Vikings being a good example, if it's the Dolphins or Cardinals of these teams who are in that rebuild stage, then you want to shoot for the moon with Malik Willis and then figure the rest out later, I think.

46:12Patrick Claybon:So on one hand, I feel like the Gregular season is just like a sprint. Literally two weeks removed from being in Santa Clara for the Super Bowl. I was already in Indianapolis, and now most of free agency will be done, what, about 10 days from now? Like it'd basically be over. And yet, despite that short timeline, I feel like the Malik Willis stock, I'm now a little worried, like who is the team that's actually going to give him the big money? I think he's going to have a plenty good market, Patrick, to kind of answer that question. And I think he'll have a better market than Kyler. But it wouldn't surprise me either.

46:52Patrick Claybon:And it doesn't matter to me that much whether he gets$37 million a year or$22 million a year, but he might settle in like a little Justin, closer to somewhere between Justin Fields and maybe Geno's contract of last year. And it might be closer to the Fields portion because I guess I'm not, if Miami isn't going big money-wise on him, and maybe they're just staying quiet, but then I'm not sure who will. Arizona is to me the most likely and makes the most sense to me. I don't know. He's got to be playing football this year. I feel pretty good that he's going to be a week one starter, which is all I really want to see.

47:31Gregg Rosenthal:Yeah, and with the proliferation of the tree, there's a lot of places where he could go. I know we've talked about Kirk Cousins in one spot, Michael Penix Jr. coming back from another injury. I think that would be a fun circumstance.

47:44Patrick Claybon:We're hearing Jimmy G as the potential starter for Mike LaFleur in Arizona. Can we discuss this, Greg? Why? You can discuss whatever you want. I mean, Ali just covered his face.

47:56Ollie Connolly:A LaFleur Hackett Garoppolo brain trust leading you into week one.

48:01Gregg Rosenthal:Because if there are geno skeptics out there, like significant geno skeptics, which with good reason, because like a morose season in Las Vegas should be deleterious to your long-term viability, then are we forgetting the Garoppolo experience where Devante was screaming on the sideline on Netflix that get them out of here before he's dead?

48:22Patrick Claybon:I agree and I've been heartened that like in that ESPN article that like that there's actually some talk well people thought Gino which I agree with was as terrible as it was last year that the situation was so bad and if you if you watched it like he's turning 36 years old this year but that I actually get the feeling that Gino might be atop this sort of reclamation project pile and might have a decent market if if the assuming the Raiders do kind of and don't find a trade for him.

48:54Ollie Connolly:I love Gino as much as anyone, maybe not as much as you. That is such shameful either analysis or agent talk to pretend like last year was not as bad as it was. He was awful last season. He couldn't see the field. He just threw the ball up in hope. I know he was worried about getting hit. And I'm not a huge Kyler Murray believer, maybe as a bridge starter, but to not have Kyler, given what he's capable of ahead of Gino Smith, would just be a dereliction of executive duty. I think they're both going to be starting week one.

49:21Patrick Claybon:But I appreciate having a different viewpoint because I think that's healthy on this show. The 49ers are a team I just wanted to bring up. Like, what's their big move? They, if I had to rank like the most fascinating teams this offseason, they are right near the top. I just think they're always in the mix, but they've gotten close so many times. John Lynch was reportedly like close to retiring at one point. They have a ton of cap space. They also have Trent Williams, Fred Warner, and Nick Bosa kind of near, you know, I'm not saying Fred Warner's near the end of his career, but these are highly paid players who have had injuries, who have been out.

50:02Patrick Claybon:And it just feels like you have the two best Goliaths in your own division. And like, it's go time. This is a team that's been ultra aggressive over the years. And it's just a thought exercise of like, what's their ultra aggressive move? Could it be Hendrickson? I don't think John Franklin Myers qualifies, but he's been connected to them. I've seen that could be part of a defensive line rebuild. Could they be a team that gets into the receiver market because they really need a wide receiver, whether that's like moving up in the draft or whether it's A.J. Brown or D.J. Moore? I'm just kind of fascinated by a team that is absolutely sick of not winning the Super Bowl, essentially, and feeling like, yeah, like let's freaking go this year.

50:47Patrick Claybon:like what are the 49ers going to do as their like big move? I'm not sure if either of you have any just like grand ideas of what you see. Yeah.

50:56Ollie Connolly:The number one thing I would do is I would call the Jets and I would try to talk them into the 33rd pick for Mac Jones. Then I would take that pick and I would package it all around and I would call everyone for the best players in the NFL. I would call about Max Crosby, which I think they're in for. I would call about Jalen Waddell and find out if the new infrastructure in Miami is into Jalen Waddell. I would call about Brian Thomas Jr. I think that that's the approach they should take is if we're going to go on to a two-year timeline, essentially having Mike Jones as a quality backup is awesome for us.

51:24Ollie Connolly:But if we can look at this market where it's Gino and all these guys and teams talk themselves into the reclamation of having seen Sam Donald, Baker and Daniel Jones and on down the line, what can we extract from Max Jones to then turn into either Crosby or Brian Thomas or a real blue chip player?

51:42Gregg Rosenthal:Yeah, to me, they just have to, you know, Obviously, getting healthy is going to do a lot for the 49ers, but they need to add depth at those spots where they had the concerns. Clearly, Max Crosby does that in a certain capacity, but how long do they want to push this version, like this particular window of the Warner, the Bosa, Trent, if Trent elects to maintain residence in Santa Clara? How long are we... you know, one more year, they're all coming back. So, yeah, let's go. So then, yeah, go. But, but not, not to stop it at rookies in draft picks. Like Ali said, swing for fences, like have ETN backing up CMC.

52:32Patrick Claybon:Like they could be a Mike Evans team. They could be a Jalen Phillips team. There was reporting from the athletic, like maybe the Mac Jones market wasn't, you know, what, what they hope for. I, To me, I don't think Mac Jones is going to have much of a market just because I don't think there's enough of a difference between him and these other guys that we're talking about that'll just be freely available.

52:55Ollie Connolly:But if you're swinging and say Kevin O 'Connell really likes Mac Jones, you could turn it into Jordan Addison, and then maybe you don't want to get involved with the off-the-field stuff after all the receivers stuff you've just dealt with, but you could give it a swing. If you're talking about big swings, like let's just do it. Let's build a package. You send us a fourth or fifth round back. You send us Addison. Maybe he's not on the team by week six. but we're swinging here, Greg. You asked us for big swings. Let's go.

53:16Patrick Claybon:I appreciate that. It would be delightful if they replaced the guy who did an Instagram of like driving 100 miles an hour past the stadium with another guy who's been arrested a couple of times for driving like 100 miles an hour. But you pair that with the signing

53:32Ollie Connolly:of Mike Evans, all of a sudden it's like, well, this is just kind of a moonshot if it goes well or not.

53:38Patrick Claybon:Yeah, I really wanted to point them out, especially just as like, watch this space more. I don't know if you guys hear the police sirens in my background, but I guess they think it was a bad question. Just watch this space. I think they're going to be one of the main characters of the next couple of weeks. I'm not sure even who's up next. Let's go. Let's go, Ali.

53:57Ollie Connolly:What is Trey Hendrickson's market? We've kind of talked about him in a couple of landing spots there. It feels like for a guy who was second in defensive player of the year voting a year ago, it's not as though he's like the runaway favorite for a monster contract. And it seems like the board is set where teams are going to try and trade for Max Crosby or the teams who can't make that work are going to start looking at Trey Hendrickson or just decide for one or the other. I wonder, Greg, how you stack it up between trading multiple picks for Max Crosby versus Trey Hendrickson, who on a per snap basis, at least the last two seasons, has been a pretty close facsimile of what Crosby gives you.

54:32Ollie Connolly:I think Crosby is a better all around player by a decent distance, but pure pass rush, get off and go. it's pretty close and the contracts are probably going to wind up being somewhat similar yeah i

54:43Patrick Claybon:think you won't even have to pay as much for hendrickson in the end like not that much guaranteed money certainly not past year two maybe not even a fully guaranteed two-year contract i think because of his age and coming off of an injured year it's going to be something like two for 50 two for 60 like it'll be plenty he'll do well it's not going to be like a long-term deal but i'd always rather do that and i think there are enough intriguing pass rushers at the top of this market. I know Adafi Owe is not nearly the same player. Boy, Mafe and Jalen Phillips is somewhere in between. But I'd still rather do that than give up big picks.

55:18Patrick Claybon:So I don't think his market's going to be quite as good. People are going to be blown away when some of these offensive linemen get as much money as Trey Hendrickson.

55:28Gregg Rosenthal:I think the positional value gets it to a place where if it's Buffalo, and they've maneuvered enough to have some space, teams that miss out on Max Crosby. It's a good backup option to have Trey Hendrickson being able to get out there. I think you're easily north of 20. They do all kinds of lies with the APYs, but we can get up north of 20.

55:56Ollie Connolly:To me, I guess it's whether he's confined to the tier of the contenders who want to try and get an A-plus player with healthy, or it's more the middle band guys like the Bears who are happy to overpay because they think it can push them into a different tier and it feels to me like the conversation is mostly around those the Niners the Bills can they maneuver cap space to the Patriots consider themselves a legit force and it's more as Greg's saying that that kind of two-year fully guaranteed deal effectively as opposed to the middle band teams trying to jump to another level whereas the Bucs who I consider a middle band side are looking

56:30Patrick Claybon:around at someone like a Crosby right or you know the Chargers are this team that's kind of sitting out there that have so much cap space the Seahawks actually have a lot of cap space we're thinking good teams does he consider just taking the bag from like a team like the Titans who I think are going to be spending a lot of money uh this offseason like there there is a lot of a lot of cap space out there all right Patrick you're up next okay so going through the combine and checking

56:57Gregg Rosenthal:back up on the guys uh that leapt off the screen uh athletically it's like I gotta go watch them tape.

57:03Patrick Claybon:I was charting Ted Hurst and I just wrote, ah, with several exclamation points where you

57:10Gregg Rosenthal:have a six, three and seven eighths wide receiver with good hands, went down to Mobile, excelled, made great plays in practice. And then I'm watching the tape and it's Georgia state. So you're having to go through and try to find the players that he made plays against. I had to go all the way back to 2024 when they played JMU. This was before D 'Angelo Pons transferred to Indiana where he would eventually win a national championship. He gets him in the corner of the end zone and hands finishing after the catch. I'm all on board. And I just wonder with all of these receivers, you know, the value for free agents may be kind of pulled back with all these guys you can get in the second and third round.

57:55Gregg Rosenthal:So I feel like, you know, between Hurst being a really good player that could be going on a really good team and these free agent wide receivers, I think somebody is going to get some a real game changer at receiver either way.

58:10Patrick Claybon:Yeah, I think it was a more shallow free agent receiver crop than normal. There's a few fun names at the top and it falls off pretty hard. And whereas like the draft looks deeper in terms of rounds two and three guys. yeah big picture what did you think Ali about Hurst or the receivers and we're kind of wrapping up here so maybe any players will wrap kind of with the discussion because I thought about this too that you thought really helped their draft stock over the last few days.

58:40Ollie Connolly:Well I love Ted Hurst I'm so glad he's getting a shout out this early in the process on NFL Daily it's a great job by Patrick I mean talk about size speed weight everything vertical threat really smooth not just an explosive up and down guy like the Tennessee people who get spat out every year into the draft so I think he's going to go far earlier than he's currently being projected guys who really help themselves I think Dylan Fienneman and I know it's kind of still at the top end of the board I think there's a chance here based on the safety class but we end up getting four guys going in the first round more than some of the hybrid slot safety types a bit in the Brian Branch mold but I think Fjernemann is going to wind up going in the top 15 maybe even as high as 10 gets tricky there's so many of the the premium edge defenders are up there and I think teams are jostling with how they actually see those guys where guy who's one on certain people's board whether it's Bain or Bailey are actually seventh on other teams board based on what they're looking for at the position whereas it's pretty calcified the downs is a star and are we willing to kind of look past our price to just go and take a great player as early as we can in the draft and I think Fienneman has a chance to be pretty special too so those two I think will go really early then the Stooks at Arizona who I think has a chance to be really great and he could sneak into the first round and there's McNeil Warren at Toledo who didn't quite test as well as I think people are expecting but he's gonna have a chance to go in the fringe of round one

1:00:01Patrick Claybon:too yeah and it's funny where would Nicky Minwari go in this draft because of the Nicky Minwari effect. You know what I mean? Like he's made people want, they're like, oh shoot, we shouldn't have let him go as far. And I know there were some, you know, questions about his college tape, but it's funny that he played so well that if he was in this draft, like, is he a better prospect than the enemy? I don't know. Like you would think, right. Or they're in the, they're in the same ballpark.

1:00:31Gregg Rosenthal:Well, you get into that range where I think the ability to put force into the ground and move at 205 versus 215. Like those 10 pounds around that 200 pounds, like those are a significant difference where you kind of have Eman Worry and Kyle Hamilton in this particular class of player where Downs, I think Downs or these other, Thienmann or these guys who have more capacity to be deep into it. Like if you look at Thienmann's time at Purdue where he's playing more free safety, he's in the backfield running around making plays. back there where at Ohio State with the pass rush that they had to get a really good football player involved in the game you had to have Downs more in the box it's like oh Caleb Downs is box safety no like I think he's better in the back end so like you have these really good free safeties in this class versus I don't think there's an E-man warrior Kyle Hamilton here and those guys it just may have to wait like every two or three years before you get a type of player like that where teams are going to try to force feed like we did for Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson.

1:01:38Gregg Rosenthal:Like anytime you had a tall, fast guy, it's like, oh, that's this guy. No, those guys aren't around a lot.

1:01:44Patrick Claybon:Yeah, I thought you said something interesting to me on text to Ollie, which is that look, Styles, Sonny Styles. Like his workout was insane, but maybe the league are like I was thinking, does this make it so that he could be in that top five mix? And you thought like the teams, I think, were there on him already that there was disagreement maybe between David Bailey, Arvel Reese, Sonny Styles. But he was even though he's an off ball linebacker, he was already looked at a guy that could go as high as who knows, like as high as possible.

1:02:16Ollie Connolly:Yeah, Patrick's right on those safety body types. Those guys come around once in a lifetime for a franchise. If you're lucky, maybe we'll get some more of them. Now there's like a prototype out there, but it's unlikely that guy is Sonny Styles. That is a guy with that size and those movement skills. You don't need a dime linebacker on the field. We just have Sonny Stiles and he plays every down and he covers like Fred Warner, but he's got five inches and a bunch of pounds on him as well. So the combine for the teams, they've had all these measurements for as long as they want. They've also got them from the senior bowl.

1:02:44Ollie Connolly:It's mostly cross offs. It's medical stuff. It's like one really bad meeting and they go back to the notes. Maybe there's some thresholds they have where they cross guys off, but they're crossing off and guys move up a few spots. They don't have the kind of media side jump where a guy goes from 36th on their board to 18th or something like that.

1:03:01Patrick Claybon:So that's it for our big questions. We will have Patrick back later in the week. We will figure out when we got Ollie back on the show, but I'm looking forward to it. We also have a couple of live shows next week that we're getting excited for. I want to go live on YouTube Sunday night with Shook, so we're going to work on that. But we are definitely going live during the week, including on Monday from the studio, the first day of the quote-unquote legal tampering period, which is the busiest day of the entire offseason. And so we will be live on the NFL channel, which is the Fast Network, but we're trying to work on getting live on YouTube and we'll have all those shows out.

1:03:37Patrick Claybon:I am really excited for that. One other just tiny news item I wanted to mention is Donovan Ezraku had hip surgery and may not be ready for training camp. And that's not an injury you want to see for literally anyone. And he had such a great end to his rookie year. And it gets me to one question I left unasked today, which is like, what are the Cowboys going to do with all this cap space that they just freed up? It sounds like actually the Cowboys are going to be pretty active. They need a lot of help on a lot of defensive positions. But we'll talk about that throughout the week. Let's hit the music.

1:04:11Patrick Claybon:Let's get out of here. Sorry, guys.

1:04:16Patrick Claybon:Patrick, no more tours came through the stage five, by the way. We're all clean. Just me and this cutout of Scott Hansen. Oh, wait, that's stage four. stage four the Scott Hanson studio thank you to Ollie thank you to Patrick we will be back in the feed on Tuesday with 40s and free agents me and Daniel Jeremiah we'll see you then

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