Training Camp Risers and Fallers

22:11Nick Shook:This is good news for the Jaguars. So we'll get to their injuries on the offensive line later when we're doing the fallers. But Liam Cohen, who does not beat around the bush, was beaming after this scrimmage about how good the running game looked. It's a complex running game. It's year two. So despite a lot of injuries up front, he is a running game guy. He's been so good. I mean, just think about that Bucs running game when he was there for a year, how much better it was. He sounded very happy with where it's at. I think they could be a dangerous offense because of the depth, obviously, at receiver, but also because this dude knows how to coach up the running game.

22:49So I'm really looking forward to that. It is rare, Shook, in a Bengals training camp to be talking about the defense. But the defensive optimism, and I know it's camp. I know it's hyperbole. But the Cassius Howell optimism has got me excited. This was a kid I was excited about coming into the draft. He goes top of the second round. He is beating their left tackle pretty regularly, which maybe isn't a great sign for Orlando Brown. There's been some talk about Orlando Brown maybe not having the best camp in the world. Cedric Thompson, I believe is his name, has beaten him a handful of times too.

23:21But here's part of the optimism is that Howell is going to have one-on-ones because he's next to Dexter Lawrence. And Dexter Lawrence, according to, I think it was Dan Hoard that has covered this team for a while, was like, my expectations for Dexter Lawrence was high. and he's exceeded them. And again, I know it's this time of year, but this time of year, last year, people said Dexter Lawrence didn't look great because he wasn't 100 % healthy. So I'm just excited where this defensive line is at.

23:49Nick Shook:Yeah, and I'm not trying to throw any cold water on this because I'm also excited about the potential. No, you can throw cold water. I need some cold water thrown on me. It is like 95 degrees in this garage and it's August 9th and every team is going to the Super Bowl. I mean, that's where we are in the preseason process, right? It's still optimism season. but I want to say two things. One, I love the fact that they went for Cassius how because he was the antithesis of what they usually go for, which is straights guy. He's the opposite of a traits guy, but he is an explosive edge rusher and he's a situational edge rusher.

24:21Nick Shook:And you're right. He's going to get looks because he's lined up next to Dexter Lawrence. But what's really important here is also when you're watching training camp and you're watching a lot of, you know, 11 on 11 best on best. Usually the guys that ended up popping the most, just from the observer's perspective, are edge rushers, are guys who get after quarterbacks because oftentimes you're not seeing the little nuances and things that are amounting to smaller victories for other guys. Unless it's a long completion, not even really a long run because you're usually not tackling that often. It's going to be an edge rusher getting to the quarterback and doing it frequently.

24:51Nick Shook:And that's exactly who Cassius Howell is because that's who he was in college. If he's deployed properly during the regular season, he may become Bengals fan favorite. So I do like the idea of it, but let's just let's let them get on the field first. Well, it's like anything with the camp. sometimes it's like oh yeah the defensive line is dominating hmm is that a bad sign for the Bengals offensive line where like one of the most repeated takes from people I respect and see like is that the Bengals offensive line is much better they actually finally fixed it and I'm not sure my eyeballs did not tell me that last year uh even pass protecting and there was a story of Joe Burrow kind of staring, collecting himself in the locker room, pretty like upset after one of these practices.

25:36He's had a bunch of interceptions. They're installing a new offense. The fact that the defense is making the offense in Joe Burrow this mad is interesting. Dan Pitcher, the OC, tried to explain it this way. We feel like this is going to help us build an offense that can win a number of different ways, can help us win an AFC North championship, if not a training championship. camp trophy. We don't really need that. I don't, I don't really care. The under center play action, it's different for Joe Burrow and they have stuck with it. It's one of the things I've been watching. I've been listening to the growler, which is a good Bengals podcast with Paul Daner.

26:13And they say the offense really has changed. They are trying to do it. And it's, it's been a bit of a bumpy road for Joe Burrow, who's only played one way for his whole career. It's just something very interesting to watch in the preseason too, because they're going to play them in the preseason.

26:25Nick Shook:Yes, and that's going to be a great first look for us at this different offense because what do you need in order for play action to work consistently? First, you need a running game that's being taken seriously. But secondly, you need an offensive line that can hold up to execute the fake. And that's going to be the great test of whether this offensive line is fixed because I'm on the same page as you when it comes to that group. Still not overly impressed by them last year. So that could explain why they're having these struggles at this point in camp. But the good thing is, it's still on the August night.

26:52More risers. Let's go to the NFC South. the Saints, Jordan Tyson, just quietly out there practicing. All the injury concerns hasn't been a problem. He's wowing me. Some of the clips, I know we're not supposed to fall for these clips, but man, he's breaking dude's ankles. He's open by five yards. Just the way he moves is really exciting. Berrien Brown is a late round rookie receiver that also has been playing well. It sounds like he's going to make this team and just been trying to add a little bit to their depth. Someone to watch in the preseason, Berrien Brown. When we talk risers, how about Clint Kubiak putting his foot down and showing the rest of the Raiders he is boss.

27:32Let's hear him talk about Kirk Cousins and Max Crosby getting into it the other day.

27:37Nick Shook:Yeah, that's training camp. You know, those are those two leaders of our team going at it. So that is part of camp. Obviously, you fight in the game, you throw a punch in the game, especially then you're out of the game. So we got to be smart, treat it like a game. So what he did, Shook, was bench him the next day. Pretty interesting that he sat Crosby and Cousins down almost to send a message and maybe give Fernando Mendoza some love with the first team. Who knows? But that's interesting, Kubiak. I'm sure Max Crosby was not thrilled with that. I love this idea of this new staff and Clint Kubiak coming in and just putting his foot down and setting a standard that he carried over from the Super Bowl champion Seahawks where he's like, we're just not going to let this stuff happen anymore.

28:19Nick Shook:I know it's a simple, hey, Max Crosby's going hard, but we're just not, this is not going to, we're not going to let it slide anymore. We are the Raiders and we are going to be a different Raiders team than they've been for the last 10 years. And it starts with things like this. I also do like the idea of getting Fernando some extra reps at the ones for a day. That's kind of, that's kind of nice. And reportedly like he's looked good. It's overall, I've been trying to track like, how is this rookie camp going? And I think right now it's like par, like it's ups, it's down, it's flashes that you want to see.

28:46It's not, it's not so good that it's making you think, oh, this is going to be Russell Wilson, his rookie year, and make you have to start him. But he has much tougher competition in Kirk Cousins. So we'll see. I think that growth would actually come in the next two weeks than it would really matter right now. So if Fernando was going to go, I think it's going to be the next couple weeks. You know who's been going? According to Jamison Hensley, I believe, said this, who's been covering the Ravens for 30 years, he doesn't know if he's ever seen a rookie, I believe, just rookie period, but definitely rookie receiver.

29:22Flash as much as Jacoby Lane. What are you doing, Shook?

29:27Nick Shook:I'm wafting the good smells of that right there because this was my guy. This was the fit for the Ravens. This is exactly what I thought might happen. I'd love to hear this so far. Yeah, he's their number three receiver, I think. And I wasn't sure about him coming out of college because he's all about the acrobatic contested catch. That's a tough skill set. He's like a Brandon Lloyd type. But man, he has been rolling. And it gives the offense some shape if he's a real number three. We'll see. Obviously, it's early. But at this point, I think the expectation is he's going to be the three. According to, you know, the athletic, Tez Walker is probably the four.

30:05And then the other rookie right now, Elijah Surratt, is probably there. I like that group. That's a five that I could really get behind. I mean, I'm not going to go there. If Bateman is your two and a rookie I've never seen play yet is your three. I'm telling you, man. I gotta see it. It's a diverse group. I like the idea. Okay, okay. I'm with you. For now, by the way, Ethan Pochick, who's their center, that everyone expected to be their starter, hasn't played with the starters at all, but he's coming off a torn Achilles, so they're working him in slowly. The coaching staff says he's ramping up and that he will battle with Danny Pinter to be their center later in camp, but it's not necessarily his job.

30:45Peter Skaransky is a riser because he got major money. He is the number one paid guard in the NFL. He is the contract that I cited earlier. So I apologize for having the wrong money on Osiris Torrance. It was the four for$188 million guaranteed for Skaranski. I think a lot of tape knowers would put Skaranski in one of the best young guards in the league. So it makes sense that he is now locked in long-term and the highest paid guard in the league because he was the next one up. He had really good, I think, development in terms of his run blocking and his pass blocking. And that showed up at the scrimmage.

31:21So did Cam Ward. Really good numbers at the scrimmage. You know, we had a lot of team scrimmages. This used to be a bigger thing when teams would tackle to the ground. But a lot of teams practiced in the stadium over the weekend in their various stadiums. It'll be the last team scrimmage in Nissan Stadium because they have a new stadium open up next week or next year in Nashville. and Carnell Tate made some nice catches on that one, including a fancy one-hander. If you're watching us now, you could say, oh, why didn't Cam Ward just put it on him? I mean, that happens. But he also, Carnell Tate, put up three touchdowns on Sunday, the practice after the scrimmage.

32:00So Carnell Tate, Wandale, this is a pretty diverse wide receiver group too. And so far, all systems go for everyone there.

32:08Nick Shook:I just talked about Jacoby Lane being my guy. Carnell Tate was my guy in this class. He was wide receiver one. He was a guy that, you know, some people were shocked to see him go as high as fourth overall, making plays like that and making contested catches, which they also threw up on their socials and they've done it multiple times during this camp. He's doing everything that you expect him to do. And he's giving Cam Moore the number one receiver that he lacked. And hopefully they can kind of hit the ground running more, or at least, you know, at a better stride than they were at this time last year.

32:35Nick Shook:Under a new coach, a really strong offensive staff, at least on paper, new era, figure it all out, get new rhythm instead of dealing with the dysfunction that they had to deal with during Cam Ward's rookie year. I like some sneaky optimism coming out of Nashville. And I appreciate the positivity coming my way. Hear from a commenter. Thank you for the Titans' positivity. I know you had to dig deep. Not really. I'm excited to watch this offense and see what this team is. I think it's just a better division right now, so that'll make it tricky for them. I mentioned the Colts earlier, by the way. I mentioned to put Seth McGowan while I'm thinking AFC South.

33:12Just seems like he's locking in rookie running back as their RB2, if you're curious, in fantasy leagues. Let's go with some Chargers winners. Tuli Tuli Pelotu is back in team drills. He hasn't signed his contract, but maybe there's some sort of agreement there of how they were going to handle it. He's back practicing. So if indeed that was a hold-in, it's over, despite him not having a contract. I don't have much to say about the Chargers. I just wanted to note that like Rayshawn Slater's been healthy. I know he missed some team drills for a couple of days, but then he was back. Lad McConkie, healthy.

33:43A lot of hype around the running backs. Keaton Mitchell making a lot of big plays. Mike McDaniel saying Omari and Hampton has improved the most of any player on the roster. We'll be there Tuesday, so I don't want to spend too much time on them. Can I put something out there, though?

33:57Nick Shook:This is going to be the most enjoyable rushing attack to watch in the NFL this year. Los Angeles Chargers. OK, we will see. Maybe we'll get McDaniel on the show. I don't know. we've put in our requests. He was one of them, but we'll see if we can get him on Tuesday. We'll be down there. That'll go up on Wednesday. Marshawn Lloyd is another guy I've monitored just staying healthy at Packers camp. He's their backup running back, but Josh Jacobs been in and out. So he's a guy who just hasn't been able to put together healthy weeks. Drew Aller, I'm going to give as a little bit of a riser. I think he's probably the one standing out the most among the Steelers backup candidates.

34:30So that's nice. In Minnesota, it's been a lot of outside zone running talk with former Dolphins coach Frank Smith, who is with Mike McDaniel. So there, all the players have been talking about the really excited, especially the offensive lineman, Aaron Jones, about the new running game there. So we're going to keep an eye on that outside zone there. And I'm going to go to Philadelphia next, where we'll get to the receivers that have been out later. But Dontavian Wicks, man, I think he is having a really strong camp. And I think he's at the point, you know, Makai Lemon was kind of quiet and missed has been missing time.

35:07He's been out four or five days that Dontavian Wicks feels like, you know, he might be the two, three along with Dallas Goddard in that offense behind Devante Smith.

35:17Nick Shook:Yeah. And that's, there's a lot of like, it's an interesting group. It's not like the same receiving group that it was a few years ago. so like there's intrigue like i mean hollywood brown is in this group elijah moore is in this group but you were kind of counting on lemon filling out one of those top three spots even though he's a rookie and you should never you know fully count on rookies uh i i'm very curious to see what because we don't really know like this offense i think is going to look pretty different than it did in years past obviously new offensive coordinator and sean manion but you also have this almost completely different receiving group now um and is there a possibility for eli stowers to become more involved behind Dallas Goddard as a glorified receiver who's listed as a tight end.

35:57Nick Shook:A lot of things I want to really watch closely when they hit the field the preseason. It's optimism season, Chuck. So I just want you to be positive. It's why we've gone so long on the risers. If you are listening to this, you know, in your ears as a podcast, we'll take a quick break now and finish up with the risers because I don't have as much negativity to talk about. with the american express platinum card you can access over thirty five hundred dollars in annual value with benefits and eligible purchases across travel entertainment and more there's nothing like platinum learn more at americanexpress.com slash explore dash platinum enrollment requirements monthly and other limits in terms apply we roll along and yes we're taking your questions and maybe um we'll have a little deeper of a dive on aaron donald's return because we actually haven't talked about the impact football-wise that it's going to be later in the week because it sounds like it's happening this week.

36:55It's now all but decided, and now the reports are that now that they're back at the team facility, it could be happening this week. So we'll wait until that's official, and we'll kind of break down a little bit how we see him fitting into the offense because I don't assume that he's going to be the Aaron Donald of old. At Eagles camp, which we were just talking about, Jalen Carter is reportedly having an awesome camp after signing this new contract. It's like you can't expect Aaron Donald to necessarily be the top of the top. Maybe he'll prove us wrong, but we'll get into him a little later in the week.

37:25The Cowboys are a team where overall, I don't think there's been a lot of news coming out of that camp. Ryan Flournoy having a good camp. Jaden Blue sounds like the backup running back there in Atlanta. What do you think of the Zachariah Branch comp to Jalen Waddell that Tua Tungavailoa was trying to give him? because there is a lot of Zachariah Branch talk at Falcons camp right now.

37:48Nick Shook:I mean, Zach Branch did himself a lot of favors by transferring to Georgia and then, you know, having a successful time in Athens because he did not leave USC with that type of reputation. It continues up on the positive trajectory for Zach Branch. But I also do think, as we've acknowledged multiple times already tonight, that it is hyperbole season. So this is a group in which he could maybe carve out a spot in the three and then maybe make, I think he'll make some plays. He's an athlete. Like he was and he made some plays at Georgia. The jump to the NFL. We'll see how well he adjusts to it. Sounds like so far he is.

38:18Nick Shook:But again, like many cases, we'll see it on the field first. Here's the thing. It is hyperbole season. It's not necessarily going to translate to the regular season. But what it does is it gives him the chance to do it. Like his camp, I think, has ensured he is going to have a big role week one. And so we didn't know. You know, you just never know with rookies. They don't have many great players there. It's Alameda Sikias. It's Jahan Dotson. I think he's going to cut into those guys' playing time based on how it's looked. But also, the preseason matters. The Falcons are a rare team, though, getting some preseason-like practice in because they are doing some live tackling.

38:58There's only a handful of teams left doing it, but the Falcons have done that a couple times. Despite the injuries that they've had, they're doing some live tackling. Let's go to the Giants where I think Malachi Fields has probably stood out the most in their wide receiver. group, maybe their wide receiver too. Malik Neighbors is steadily ramping up, but he has not even done seven on sevens yet. And so we're still watching that. I'm not, I don't think it's necessarily a guarantee that, that he is starting or playing week one. Darius Alexander, though, their defensive tackle was a rookie last year.

39:30Does sound like he is starting, had a really good camp. In Detroit, I wanted to throw this one at you. Like their biggest acquisition this year shook could be a limb nick mcneil a lean mcneil returning to 2024 a lean mcneil because he was returning off the injury last year he was hurt in 2024 and by every report i listened to this this podcast the lions collective like he has been that dude at training camp and to me that is huge their defensive line could look a lot different a lot better this year if he is right yeah it was

40:07Nick Shook:presence that, I mean, they just missed guys up the middle generally last year because McNeil coming off of injury and just a lack of depth there. Tyleek Williams never really stepped up and did what a lot of people thought he would, myself included. Having somebody back like that at their full strength after, you know, battling through the challenges that come with playing through a season that came after a significant injury is always going to make you better because it all starts in the trenches. It's also going to be better for the rest of this group because as the Lions have learned over the last few years, depth is very important.

40:36Nick Shook:and they still never really quite found the ideal pairing with Aiden Hutchinson off the edge. That's no disrespect to DJ Wanam. I actually love watching DJ Wanam play football, but it's going to be more about the strength of the front four instead of just this edge and that edge. And because of a guy like Alain McNeil there, if you can make the whole group better, it's going to help out the entire defense and make your team better. So Levi Onwuzurike, who's been around this year, might not make that team from the sound of it. And Peyton Turner, the former Saints first round pick, like he hasn't been healthy at all.

41:08But some of the young players have stepped up and then McNeil getting back and Tyleek Williams looking better this offseason. We'll see. It's early. But Ahmed Hassanin is another player, a six round pick from a year ago, who is believed to be really threatening to play a lot of snaps. So I just feel a little bit better about their defense now than I did a couple of weeks ago. So the final thing rising, other than just giving some love to Jordan Love for like one particular throw, is competition at Texans practice. I really track Seth Payne, his YouTube channel, and he's just saying like it's been going back and forth, which has been is nice to see.

41:47Instead of one way traffic, which it was apparently I think it was on Sunday's practice. The defense kind of fought back and totally dominated and made the Texans defense or offense look a little bit more like last year. that CJ Stroud was stacking days and the running game was stacking days. And it's, if you can just look competent against this Texans defense, it is a great way to get ready for the season.

42:12Nick Shook:I need to know if, well, I mean, first to hear that CJ Stroud's stacking days and the running game stacking days, that tells me that the offensive line is also stacking days. And this is an offensive line that has been a sore spot for the Texans for the last few years. and it's also kind of been rebuilt recently. So, you know, does the arrival of a guy like Wyatt Teller help build out this group into a stronger unit? Because if they can actually fix what was going on up front, which it was a lot better last year than two years ago, but if it can get even better now, then maybe I'll believe in this offense again.

42:41Nick Shook:And then maybe CJ Stroud can show the whole world that he is the guy that was awesome as a rookie and hasn't been awesome in the last couple of years. If that happens, then that immediately vaults this team much higher up into the power rankings or whatever you want to call it of the NFL. because that's been their weakness. What do you mean whatever you want to call it? You've got power rankings. Has anyone announced that? No, it was just me trying to avoid attention. But yeah, this has been a defensive-laden team. I don't care if anyone said it. If this is exclusive, Shook is the new power rankings guy at the NFL.

43:15We'll see where the Texans are. I would have them quite high. Tank Dell, who everyone's excited to see back at practice, it's still not fully back. I'm not sure how much we can count on him early in the season. We'll see. The final thing I just wanted to say as a winner was there was one throw from Jordan Love at the family night to Matthew Golden that was just a thing of beauty. I don't know if there's anyone in the NFL that throws a prettier ball than Jordan Love. And I know Christian Watson can go get it, but so can Matthew Golden down the field. And I am really looking forward to that. I know we shouldn't scout camp on like highlights, but there aren't that many people that could make a highlight like that.

43:59Chuck, I think Jordan Love is going to have like a monster season. Okay.

44:04Nick Shook:Sign me up for that because he needs to. After what happened last year, he needs to. Oh, he was good last year. Just ended bad. Just ended bad. Okay, let's go to the negatives. And we've put off talking about the biggest item of news since we last taped for a while. So these are the fallers, the stock down, whatever you want to call it, at this point in camp. The commanders have had a rough camp. And Laramie Tunsil tearing his triceps is absolutely brutal. I was really concerned about this offensive line even before this injury. And I know there was optimism for a variety of reasons of how the rest of the line shaped up.

44:47But I also thought these guys were drafted for a different type of system. It's a new system. They have a new center in Nick Allegretti, who's had a lot of injuries as a pro and has been out basically all of training camp. So now you're into your backup backup kind of at center. And Sam Cosme's had injuries. And I know you're hoping Josh Connerly, who looked good at the end of last season, steps up and continues it at right tackle. But it all kind of falls apart if Laramie Tunsil isn't there. And torn triceps could knock him out for most of the season. How it works a lot of times is how severe the tear is upon surgery depends on how long he'll be out.

45:27So, you know, most optimistic, it's probably closer to three months. But even that's half the season. And you have a guy in Brandon Coleman who has played a lot of left tackle, the young player. But there's a reason why they tried to replace him and moved him to guard. It's just. Just a little bit of shaky footing, right? you know you're having to sign Stefan Diggs which I don't know if they really wanted to have to do even though I think it's a good move like just it's a little uncertain right now with what's

45:56Nick Shook:going on with the Washington Commanders and you you combine it with the uncertainty that comes with revamping almost your entire starting defense right like you're starting defense like it that I thought you know when I said it when I first kind of pointed it out I thought am I being crazy Dan Quinn seat getting warm but if the way that these types of things shape up and the pressure that mounts like it all starts with jayden daniels but if you can't protect him then you're going to run into some of the same situations that you ran into last year and so yeah this is a legitimate concern especially when you don't know what you have on the other side of the ball you the team you know the defense with the it was worse in the nfl in terms of yards allowed per game last year a lot of uh reasons to be a little uneasy at this point in camp another one by the way is that trey amos who was their best cornerback last year hasn't practiced basically at all at trading camp And then when he did return, he got hurt on his first day back.

46:48I also looked at this wide receiver morass coming into training camp. Remember that position battle? We were hoping Antonio Williams was going to step up. They've really struggled to draft wide receivers. He's a slot guy. Stefan Diggs, not just a slot guy, but probably best in the slot. He kind of blocks him. I haven't heard a lot about Antonio Williams at that camp. Not like the greatest sign there. Trelon Burks is maybe the outside receiver. So nothing to panic about. If you're a Commanders fan, it's like all hope is not lost. But Laramie Tunsil is probably your most valuable player other than Jaden Daniels.

47:26So it is what it is. Like that's as big a lot. There's a reason why they gave him a monster raise. He played awesome for them a year ago. So what we've done, Shook, is stayed disciplined. And in some scenarios, most scenarios, I had winners early in the show for a team where I now have losers. And that's the case for your Cleveland Browns, where it's a little early. But like, should I be concerned that Spencer Fano has not won the left tackle job? That actually seems like Dwan Jones like might win it. And maybe they're just. Yeah.

47:59Nick Shook:OK. Yes, you should be concerned. You spent a first round pick on this guy, a pretty high pick. You traded back to spend it, but you still spent a pretty high pick on him. And you did it with the conviction that, that he was polished enough and prepared to be able to step in and man that spot from day one. And he's just not there yet. And you should especially be concerned because DeJuan Jones, who started as a rookie, you know, when he ended up taking the field as a rookie, he started off great. I mean, he was, he was attracting all sorts of praise for not giving up sacks and just looking like a dominant player.

48:29Nick Shook:He's been nothing like that over the last two years. I know he's dealt with injuries, but he hasn't been anywhere close to that. This is why a big reason why you went and rebuilt your whole offensive line. And we know the left tackles the most important position on the line. So yeah, you should be concerned, especially given you don't know who's going to play quarterback. Okay, good. And it might just be something where they're seeing what the Juan Jones looks like and, you know, making Fano earn it. We'll see in trade. Like this is, he's someone I really want to watch in the preseason is Fano.

48:56He was a guy that I didn't, I wasn't as high on as other people were. Well, they were, they were high on him. The first tackle off the board, like they get, they had their pick and they traded back and then they took them. And it's part of like a bigger, like, Oh, all these names look good when they fix their offensive line and it looks better. But Elton Jenkins has missed a lot of camp. In fairness, both Elton Jenkins and Tevin Jenkins returned over the weekend. So right now they are healthy again, but both of them have had a lot of injuries in their career. Both of them have missed most of training camp so far, or various points of training camp.

49:26They're back on the field right now. And it's just like crossing your fingers that those guys can stay healthy. healthy. Lane Johnson is a guy we had noted was not at training camp for much of the last week. And we'll get to the Cam Ward comment in just a little bit. Lane Johnson announced more or less that this is going to be his final season. And he didn't put a like 100 % promise, but he's going into the year with the idea that this is going to be his last season. It was a really interesting press conference. He was away from the team for four days. Not sure why. He said it's just really hard being away from his kids, his family.

50:14He said both of his parents are having health issues. His mom's had a cancer battle, so that might be part of why he was away from the team. He also pretty pointedly mentioned it really bothers him. the lack of recognition that he's got for everything that he's put his body through. And he sees he's like, he's not in the top 100. And he's talked about in the past, like he was second team all pro and whoever, I forget who it was. You could look it up. The first team all pro from a couple of years ago, like how many sacks that person gave up compared to Lane Johnson. It really bothered him that he was second team all pro when he thinks he's the absolute best offensive lineman in the league.

50:51It's interesting that that is part of the reason And like, it's draining his energy from the sound of it. And he said he just wanted to come into this year with a clear mind. He's talked about his mental health issues, too. It's a brutal position. He's had, you know, concussions, all of that. One of the greatest players in Eagles history. Just point blank. One of the best tackles of the century, point blank. If I did my top 25, 25, like he should maybe be on there. and just looking forward to him getting his flowers over this last year. And it'll be interesting. He's a guy who has a chance to win a third Super Bowl title with the Eagles this year.

51:32Nick Shook:It's a thankless job to play tackle in the NFL to really play any offensive line position in the NFL, but especially, I think, right tackle because you're not the glorified left tackle. And I understand the frustration. I also think that this sounds like he's a guy who's overwhelmed right now and is also coming off of a very injury-riddled season. in which he tried to fight his way back and just couldn't do it. And that's draining. That is absolutely draining, especially when you put so many years of high-level football into your career. But I will say that it could be a good thing that he's pretty upset or just pissed off by the fact that nobody's ever really given him any recognition because it's like, all right, this is your last year.

52:13Nick Shook:Go prove them all wrong. Leave it all out on the field. Let's go. Get one great season out of him. I hope he can stay healthy because you're absolutely right. He's, he's a generational right tackle. He's been one of the best in the NFL throughout most of his career. And, uh, he's going to be somebody that's going to be very hard to replace once he, he packs it up. Yeah, he will be in Canton. We're going to go through the, the players that'll be eligible for a first time and just give a couple of quick thoughts on, on what happened in Canton and the induction this weekend. But Lane Johnson to me is a no doubter first ballot hall of famer.

52:44So yeah, you're right. He'll get his love this season. The offense, has reportedly looked pretty good at camp, you know, considering it's a new offense and how many injuries they've had. Makai Lemon and Devontae Smith have been out for most of the last week. It worries me, Makai Lemon, you know, a little bit. I don't know if he was making, you know, huge, huge impact before that. So you want to get him on the field. Eli Stowers, too, is their second round pick, not getting like a lot of love from the people watching on a day-to-day basis. Might not be ready for much of a role there. Let's go to Detroit, where we got the surprising news on Sunday afternoon.

53:22I'm not going to say it made me emotional where I teared up, because we've gone through this before with Teddy Bridgewater, but I was a little bit sad. Not as sad as Dan Campbell. Let's listen to him. But I feel like this is where it's at for sure right now.

53:40Nick Shook:This is where it needs to be and where he felt. His biggest worry was letting us down. That's the type of guy he is, and he's not. That's as far as it can get. He's meant a lot. Dan Campbell was with Teddy in New Orleans. Everyone who was big around Teddy Bridgewater just seems to love him. You do wonder. I don't know. Camp's tough. He's away from his family. He's a Florida guy. I have a feeling if some team really needs a quarterback in November and just calls Teddy Bridgewater, he might be on the sideline again but uh i mean that's probably not what happened last year one of my favorites exactly yeah um i i'm actually moved by dan campbell being so moved by it um yeah but you're right it just that goes to show what he's meant to the people that he's worked with in his nfl career he's a guy who was a former first round pick who had his moments never quite got some you know the flowers that maybe he deserved he became a reliable backup uh he stepped in in a big spot in New Orleans back in the day.

54:43Nick Shook:He was coaching high school last year. He's been through a lot in that this past year because he was trying to help his players out and you know got penalized for it by the state and there's been a whole battle over that allowing you know coaches to help out their players financially and Teddy Bridgewater law. He's got a law named after exactly. Yeah. So he's been through a lot and I can understand you get this point in camp. We're just like man don't have it in me anymore. But man it's not often that you see a coach get emotional like that when a guy retires during camp. Usually they're like, yeah, he's retiring.

55:14Nick Shook:Next question. You know where he's gotten the credit that he deserves over the years? Nick Shook. Right there. You. I mean. Big two gloves guy. Between around the NFL and now NFL Daily. How many people have podcasted more than me, I would say? Volume-wise, I have done my part and probably overrated him at times. But in the perfect situation, surround him with the right people. He was great. Some other down news with the Lions. By the way, they're signing Josh Dobbs. Pass or not, baby, let's go. It just makes total sense that he's the one replacing him. The couple injuries there, Sione Vaki, their backup running back candidate, has a broken nose, so he's been out.

56:05And I mentioned Levi Onuzureke. He's been kind of struggling. Doesn't sound like he's necessarily even a lock to make that team. Isaac Sla, people were hoping, would kind of make a big leap. Maybe not happening so far in camp. They have plenty of weapons there, but they would love him to develop a little more. So we'll keep an eye on that. There was a question or a comment that said Cam Ward threw a prettier deep ball than Jordan Love. I'm going to put you on the spot. You can compare these two. It certainly shook. But I also will ask just like prettiest deep ball. This was Russell Wilson's terrain.

56:43Certainly Aaron Rodgers at his peak. Don't think he's there anymore, although he's got plenty of juice still. like prettiest deep ball in the league right now. I don't know who your contenders are. If you have anyone that would top those guys, if you agree with Ward over love.

56:59Nick Shook:Hmm. Prettiest. Cause prettiest is different than most effective. Yes. You got to put Josh Allen in there. He hasn't really had a field stretcher, but you got to put him in there. Cause he's got a cannon. Um, that's, that's a debate that, that's one that I would actually really like to dive into. Cause okay. That's a way of not answering. Uh, Stafford is, is Stafford's is pretty, is pretty, pretty. Yeah. He's, yeah, but his passes are pretty no matter the distance. That's the thing. It's different. Sure. The very, it's a very specific argument to make here. I got to think about this more, but I mean, if you're just talking about my homes, when he had Tyree kill was a pretty deep ball.

57:35Sure. Um, I mean, if you're just talking about a go ball down the sidelines, not many throw it better than Jalen hurts. It's, it's like, it's, it's his, it's his skill set. I disagree. I think Jordan with the, uh, ward over love one, I think love is my choice for the prettiest, but reasonable minds can disagree. Let's go to the Patriots. I mentioned Will Campbell out of practice for a few days, and it highlighted something I haven't enjoyed reading about and hearing about. Greg Bedard of Boston Sports Journal has been all over this, but I've heard it from a few of the other Patriots reporters.

58:10Caleb Lomu, struggling quite a bit at Patriots practice. He is the 21-year-old tackle that they drafted. So not ready, it sounds like, to step into the starting lineup there. And Will Campbell, there was never going to be a battle, but Will Campbell reportedly taking a nice step forward in his second camp. Should I be concerned, Shook, not that the first-round pick, who's not even starting anyways, is struggling, but that Tommy DeVito's team beat Drake May's team like handily in the scrimmage with points, some sort of point system. I don't know what the point system is. Like you get points for first downs, you get whatever.

58:55DeVito beats Drake May in, in Gillette stadium panic time for, for Drake may fans. It depends.

59:04Nick Shook:Are they going against the ones or the twos? This is like a formula. They mix it up. They mix it up in the same machinery. What's going on here? Yes, they mix it up. So like, I was listening to the breakdown. It was like, well, Drake may had more like first team offensive linemen, but DeVito had more receivers. But basically they tried to split the difference and they played with like equal teams. Who are they playing against? That's the question. They playing against the ones on defense the whole time? They mix kind of the ones and the twos to try to even out the teams. And DeVito's team, I think with a big day from Pop Douglas, came out on top.

59:36I mean, I didn't love hearing that.

59:37Nick Shook:This is like when you are with your friends and you pair up or you make groups of three and then you're just like, oh yeah, I know my team's stacked. But it was supposed to be a random draw. It feels like that's the kind of result of this. I've done this. I'll play some sort of multiplayer game with my friends and then we get into certain combinations and I'm like, oh, my team's in a crush. Or I look at the group and I'm like, I got to carry the team because this is not a good group. Maybe it's the same thing. It would be telling we should do this at different training camps because it would be really telling to see who the quarterbacks take for their team.

1:00:07if they were allowed to draft him. Because from the sound of it, Demario Douglas was the most productive guy. And for whatever reason in this setting or maybe just this camp, and he knows the offense, it's a complicated offense. A lot of choice routes. McDaniels, he's done it for a couple of years. It's like, I think they would take him over Romeo Dobbs. Also, imagine if you're playing with

1:00:26Nick Shook:your third string tackle, and imagine you are the third string tackle, but you're blocking for Drake Mayne. You're like, oh God, I really got to perform now because I'm on Drake's team instead of the third team. Carlton Davis has been out with a hamstring injury since the earliest part of training camp, which is just par for the course. But he played a lot last year, so maybe he just doesn't like to practice or can't stay healthy in practice. But he just he just never practices over the last four years for any team that he's on. And Travion Henderson, like if you're looking for the year to break out, it might happen.

1:01:00But there's been nothing in camp to indicate that he has made up any ground on Ramondre Stevenson. And if anything, it's probably been the opposite in terms of patience and vision and the pass protection stuff that they really value Ramondre. So that's something. And then my guy, Kyle Williams, just seems a little buried on the depth chart. Like, I assume he'll make the team, but he is not part of the top five, which is a little worrisome for a second year. I told you, I told you, you're figuring this out.

1:01:26Nick Shook:You might have to part with some guys that you hold near and dear to your heart. The A.J. Brown effect. Here's what you do. You trade Kayshaun Booty for a third. Could we get a third? Could they get a third for a kitchen? That's a little high unless the team's desperate. Some other fallers, we'll call them. Jack Besch, I've noted, is not really in the top two for the Raiders at wide receiver. And they're really playing a lot of two tight ends on the field. So that's an important formation. And then I know when Trey Tucker or Jalen Naylor's been out, they bump up Malik Benson, who's a rookie, maybe even ahead of Besch.

1:02:02So something to note. So we said that Kenyon Sadiq, the tight end for the Jets, is going to be out for a little while. That's a bummer. D 'Angelo Pons, also their rookie, has not practiced at training camp. Joseph Asai, their big defensive end pickup, has also not practiced at camp. Neither has Tavondre Sweat, their defensive tackle that they traded for. So a lot of injuries there on the Jets' defense, which maybe helps explain some of Gino's success that we talked about. I told you, the defense. you know uh you know they do like the practices under the lights i forget do the do the steelers do it at uh at the college that they do training camp at i i forget umst vincent college or whatever um the steelers coach mike mccarthy used to have something called the mojo moment which became a little famous when they did hard knocks and in pittsburgh he now calls it the Franco moment in honor of Franco Harris because the immaculate reception he said was the ultimate mojo moment it was kind of lucky but whatever it was sorry I don't know if he caught it I don't know if that was a cat probably caught it he probably caught it it would have been a crime if they didn't give it to him the mojo moment at the practice in front of the lights for the Steelers was okay the first second third team offense all going to get a chance to go do a drive down the field and score a touchdown.

1:03:23First team offense comes out. They got to go down the field. It's Aaron Rodgers. At this time of year, this is what you live for if you're Aaron Rodgers. First down and 10. Back to pass. Very first throw. He throws it inside of Roman Wilson. Jamel Dean cuts at it. Pick six, Jamel Dean. There's your mojo moment. It's over. The drive's over. You don't get another chance. That's the rules. It's over.

1:03:51Nick Shook:Yeah, I, the, the first, I mean, I knew what was coming cause I have the notes in front of me, but as soon as he said, throws it to Roman Wilson, I thought, Oh God. Oh no, probably not going to Wilson supposedly having a good camp and is well ahead of Jeremy Bernard, the third round rookie. So that there was second round rookie. So that's a note, but yeah, not a good moment.

1:04:13Look, I,

1:04:15Nick Shook:I have such a hard time reconciling this entire Steelers situation going into this year because like Aaron Rogers even said that he was basically sure he was done. And then they hired Mike McCarthy and, and the door was basically closing on him coming back. And then they hire Mike and Mike's foot goes in between the door and the doorframe and it keeps it open. And that's why Aaron Rogers comes back. And then McCarthy shows up and he's got all this love for Pittsburgh and it makes for good stories and good headlines during training camp. And he's got a new mantra tempered, you know, to like make a reference to steel making and they're going to be tempered by training camp and become stronger and more durable and everything else.

1:04:52Nick Shook:And yet part of me is like, he brings the offensive genius to this and that's all great. But what are these Steelers going to be? I don't know. It's one play. And one of the viewers right now asked, didn't Jamel Dean pick six Roger? I do remember a Tampa one. Was it Jamel Dean? That would be incredible. and yeah, it's good for the defense where I am excited about some of the things I've heard about this Steelers defense. They've been lining up the three edge rushers, Herbig, Highsmith, and Watt together with Herbig kind of at an off-ball lurker situation. NASCAR package, let's go. Okay, that's cool.

1:05:29I love that. Maxi Hanachor, who I mentioned a week ago on this very show, you know, wasn't getting a lot of runs, started to get more run with the first team and reportedly looked really good. So he would have been in my risers, but he did that for a few days and then he got hurt and he's been out of practice now for about three days. So that's, that's not a great sign. And then Brandon Eccles, who is probably their starting nickel, unless I'm forgetting someone is in a boot or yeah, at least he's starting or playing a lot of snaps for them. He has been in a boot. Eric, our producer is watching.

1:06:04He's enjoying. He lives for these Sunday nights for me, making him drive in on Sundays in the middle of the summer to tape these shows. And he now has a rejoinder for the answer to the prettiest deep ball in the league. So I don't know what he's coming with here, but let's see.

1:06:24Nick Shook:Land in his own with completely up. That's good luck. Back shot downfield. Got a man. And it's caught a big hit. And he'll run to. Wow. One more time by Brooks. Ah, that was Carson Beck. You want to talk about losers? You want to talk about fallers? How about me not being able to honk about Carson Beck and the greatest Hall of Fame ending of all night, all time? Now, we talked about how he played really well on our Thursday night show while Carson Beck was in there, but we didn't get to see Haynes Kang finish off that game with a back-and-forth first-ever Hall of Fame game where both teams were over 30.

1:07:05Haynes King with a buzzer beating run. Unfortunately, he's kind of in the fallers too, because he hurt his hamstring at some point in that game and is out for a few weeks. I don't know if you knew that.

1:07:17Nick Shook:And he toughed it out and took that running score in from five yards out at the buzzer, because that's what Haynes King does. That's what he did at Georgia Tech. All he did was make plays with his legs. He was actually a better runner than a thrower. And then he's throwing it all over the field on Thursday night. And then he runs it in to cap the most electric Hall of Fame game ever by doing it in his fashion, but actually that's good that's a funny choice eric the the carson beck ball because um it's pretty it it was pretty and he did it a few times he got uh some panthers defenders on double moves a couple of times in that game uh but my favorite moment from that was as you heard on the highlight there you could probably hear the contact the stick from the defensive back who hit that receiver whole press box just went oh when he got it we were all surprised that he got up and celebrated some of the analysts looking at uasbn needs to calm down a little bit with like a carson weck carson beck needs to be in the mix to start like no one's running any defense here i love that he passed this first test let's not draw too much from it other than it was it was fun to watch it was fun to watch it's funny that you mentioned that nobody's running any defense though because i'm watching him like carve up the panthers and there's like a third down they're like high red zone and they run a stunt and you can just tell because it's the first time you see any sort of defensive line action outside of a straight rush.

1:08:29Nick Shook:And it immediately gets home and sacks him and they have to settle for a field goal. And I'm just like, that's preseason in a nutshell right there. They finally actually did one stunt and it immediately worked. Right. And the thing I liked the best was he had a little bit of pocket presence. When the pressure was coming from his right, just a nice little shuffle. Like I'm no quarterback's mechanics guy, but it looked good. And that's something I think that can potentially carry over. But I'm not going to draw too many conclusions other than curious to watch him the rest of the preseason. A faller right now, I guess, would be anyone else wanting to watch Patrick Mahomes in the preseason.

1:09:02Let's listen to Andy Reid, who says, yeah, that's probably not happening.

1:09:06Nick Shook:There's a pretty good chance I don't play him. And percentages are leading that way. And I don't know if I'll play him a second or third game. I mean, I don't know that. So but percentages probably lean against doing that and letting the other guys. We've got new people in those other positions and behind him that need some work. And so the more reps they get, the better. A lot of questions. A lot of guys that I'll be curious to watch week one for the Chiefs because Mahomes probably isn't going to play in the preseason that just aren't all the way back. Like Xavier Worthy, still out with his shoulder injury.

1:09:37We assume he'll be back at some point. Mansoor Delane, still non-contact. Rasheed Rice, it's just been this slow ramp-up period, but he's not like fully back and just so really important players that just have had some injuries. They have one on the offensive line right now, too, I believe at right tackle. It's just a lot, and we'll see. Steve Spagnuolo, I thought it was noteworthy, said he wants a little more vocal leadership, and they miss Trent McDuffie and Jalen Cook. Pretty interesting for him to just say he just wants to hear the communication be a little better. Let's go to the Saints, who had some injury news I'm concerned about.

1:10:16Kristen Miller, their second-round rookie, has been out for most of the training camp. I was excited to see him play. They lost a depth piece. Dylan Radins at the offensive line was kind of their sixth or seventh offensive lineman. So for them, an important player. He tore his ACL. He's going to be out for the season. And then I didn't like the sound of how Kellen Moore talked about Cam Jordan's hamstring injury. It's tough to parse injuries this time of year, whether to mention them or not, but it just sounded the way that he talked that this could be a while. And I just don't love to hear that out of Cam Jordan.

1:10:48And they're a team that already lost Brian Brisey for this season. Just their lines. I question the depth on both their lines and the risk that they have in terms of the injury possibility right now for both their lines. Just dimming that Saints optimism a little.

1:11:04Nick Shook:Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned the depth. Because on paper, your starting group, more on the offensive line than the defensive line, still looks pretty solid for the most part. But yeah, depth. And we know depth matters. Especially if you suffer. They're pretty thin. I think already in the defensive line after losing Brzee. So it's like, yeah, you got to hope for some luck there to make sure that you can maximize what's possible with this team. And you're right, dimming the optimism a little bit. Although I still, I'm on the optimism. Oh, you mean a Kimes pick them to win the division? I like them.

1:11:37I'm just like, they could be a lot better and still only have seven wins. And that's okay. Like six, you know, that's okay. It's a winnable division. the rest of the division in terms of health right now has been like okay I would say. I mean the Panthers haven't had as much injuries lately. We're hearing Haynes Kang by the way. I think he was hurt on that last play right now. But the rest of this show is probably going to have a lot of little injury updates. We've got the Fowler situation so I'm just going to roll through some injuries here, starting with the Bears. A little worried about Luther Burden.

1:12:19That Luther Burden hype was out of control in the fantasy streets. I don't know if you knew about this. He has a groin injury that sounds like it's going to keep him out. I don't know if it's going to be one week, if it's going to be three weeks, if it's going to be more. It's going to be somewhere in the middle, but a concern there. So you got a lot of like Jaday Walker, Zabian Thomas, I believe, left practice on Sunday too. Not sure how serious that is. Braxton Jones and Montez Sweat, their left tackle, right now and their edge left practice not believed to be long term according to ben johnson but then you go to their secondary and it's crazy cam lewis who was a replacement for kobe bryant is also hurt right now jalen jones who was the replacement for kyler gordon in the slot they're both out uh elijah hicks is another guy hurt in the secondary so you hate when it's clustered it's early we got a month to go here but dennis allen at least in practice he's going to be tested.

1:13:14I feel like the Bears, if I was making a list of the teams that have suffered the most injuries, the most concerning aspects, they've obviously lost their left tackle to like they're high on that list.

1:13:24Nick Shook:Yeah, them and the Panthers, two of the first teams that I think of when it comes to this stuff. And you're right. Clustered is the most concerning part. You spread it out and you get one here, one there. You can still kind of find ways to navigate because you have such a large roster at this point in the process. But when it's a whole group and it's especially when you talk about the secondary, like that's a secondary that are welcome to new additions. And now all of a sudden you're looking at Dylan Thienemann to kind of hold it down back there. I forgot about Dylan Thienemann. Good player at Oregon, but a rookie who has not, yeah, he hasn't really popped in camp either.

1:13:55Nick Shook:So look, I'm not going to be one of those people that gets in the crowd that then lists the bears as the number one regression candidates. And then Ben Johnson will just mention it in a press conference. But I do think that, yeah, this, this qualifies for the followers right here and slight concern. Some injury news elsewhere. that will point out that the Jaguars have been without both their tackles and Patrick McCurry at guard, Emmanuel Pregnon at guard, who was a high pick. So like they're missing all sorts of tackles in offensive linemen right now. I mentioned some of the Giants receivers that were going up earlier, some of them going down Jalen Hyatt, Isaiah Hodgins, Juju Smith-Schuster.

1:14:34If I had to guess, those guys could be on the outside looking in in terms of even making the team. We talked about Josh Downs, who I do think ultimately will be a slot guy for the Colts later, but they just haven't been healthy. I also wanted to note that Cam Taylor Britt, their cornerback, probably their third or fourth cornerback, is suspended for one game for violating the personal conduct policy, we found out. And then a bummer report from Ian Rappaport this afternoon that Anthony Richardson could be cut or traded soon and that there's real concern about whether his eyes have fully recovered after that freak accident with the resistance band before a game, which is really disappointing.

1:15:21There were a lot of reports shook that he's had a big problem with catching shotgun snaps. It's just like a bummer, man. I mean, I know people like to pick on him, how he came into the league. He was a 21-year-old kid who like had some real wow plays. And I know he was getting replaced anyways by Daniel Jones, but that injury is, is depressing. And for Ian Rappaport to go public with that report makes me think that trade or cut could be coming as early as like next week.

1:15:57Nick Shook:Yeah. And, and if it's, because that's not just like poor performance, that's a lack of ability to, to prop. I mean, it's quarterback. You have to have your eyes, you know, it's one of your greatest tools. is your eyes. And if you're struggling to catch shock and snaps, that means that tells me that the rest of the picture is probably not very clear for you either. So it's, it goes from being like, Oh, this is a guy who didn't work out there. It's like, Oh damn. Like not, he doesn't even have a chance because now he's being held back by a freak accident. That's, it's just, that's unfortunate. It stinks.

1:16:29Another young quarterback who's had his share of struggles. Certainly is a lot of attention on him. JJ McCarthy hasn't felt like Kyler Murray's exactly. crushed it in this competition, but the longer it goes on, the disparity in terms of first team reps is just noticeable. So I like how Luke Braun, who hosts Locked on Vikings, put it on Blue Sky the other day. He basically said, multiple things can be true, that J.J. McCarthy does look a little more controlled this year. Like he's a little more under control. There is improvement there. And that Kyler Murray has a couple like wild misses every day that you're just like, huh, like, is he picking everything up?

1:17:12And yet when you just watch the whole back and forth and you're there every day, and then certainly how the reps are stacked, there's only one takeaway, which is that Kyler's running away with this. So I just think that's kind of where we're at in terms of the Vikings battle. This is a Sunday night show. If you're watching us, you know, we're doing it every Sunday evening and it has been a little interactive. And, you know, we got the tip that Jamel Dean picked off Aaron Rodgers. What the hell? Eric Roberts, he found the play. Let's listen to it. Back in 2020, the COVID year. Every time he catches the ball, you see Rodgers, he's kind of smiling and laughing because he's just kind of taken Tanya in since the first time he saw him and just loves the way he plays the game.

1:17:58Nick Shook:Pass is picked. Intercepted. Back the other way. Touchdown, Tampa Bay. intercepted by Jamel Dean. There is no other show on the interwebs, in the blogosphere, anywhere, if that even exists anymore, that is finding Jamel Dean highlights mid-show and then playing him. You want to know why? Because they don't even have the permission. I was going to say, that's right. NFL media. It's still happening. That's Aaron Rodgers targeting Devontae Adams in a stadium that the broadcast is pumping crowd noise into because there's like nobody there because it was a pandemic. We dig that up. If I remember correctly, that was like his first pick six in a very long time because Rodgers has only thrown, I don't know what it is now, but at the time that was only his third career pick six, which was crazy.

1:18:52He was on a wild streak of like years without having a pick six. And so, yeah, Jamel Dean, he just gets after him. Chargers faller right now before we go to their camp. I think Trevor Penning has kind of been eliminated from their competition at left guard, which is about four ways deep at this point, which is interesting. Like, they just can't decide anything. The Packers' offensive line certainty is another one. They're just totally up in the air, I think, because of injuries, because of how the offensive line is playing. And that's about it in terms of our risers and fallers for this second full week of training camp.

1:19:29But we do have one other thing to talk about to end the show, and that's the Hall of Fame speeches and the ceremony. Obviously, it's a great weekend in Canton. And Drew Brees, I think, had a really strong speech. You can tell how well he prepared for that speech. I know that the Saints fans and the media in my life was really fired up. It was emotional how many people were there, all those old Saints. That's one of the coolest things to see who comes out. And you're like, is that Brandon Coleman in the crowd with Drew Brees and Michael Thomas and Lance Moore and some of the current players like Alvin Kamara and Cam Jordan were there and Sean Payton getting teary eyed.

1:20:13And that was really fantastic for Mr. Saint. And I think of Larry Fitzgerald the same way and what he meant to the Cardinals. Adam Vinatieri, a little different, you know, because he means a lot to two different franchises. he had one of the most surprising Hall of Fame speeches of all time. He went blue. Not like Colt's blue, just like, I'm going to pretend I'm a stand-up comedian for like 15 minutes blue. Let's listen to him relate his wife to Pat McAfee.

1:20:42Nick Shook:Hey, Pat McAfee's here in the crowd today. Great to see you, brother. The only person who enjoyed holding my balls more than my wife.

1:21:04Nick Shook:she held for me in the off season when everyone else was gone get that right

1:21:14adam what are you doing adam the first joke was the first joke was great mcafee if you watch the video interesting reaction if you know you know um vinitary i think if he was a stand-up and he's testing out the material i think he realizes don't follow it up with the the holding it in the off season bit like you nailed it with the first joke you know what i mean it almost got a little weird afterwards and it was unnecessary um but he nailed it he nailed the delivery didn't nail the the belichick joke as much did you happen to see that one no i did not hear the belichick joke I didn't even want to play it here because he kind of killed the delivery but essentially, yeah, Belichick couldn't make it because he was probably busy with UNC and also evaluating his girlfriend's cheerleading competition over the weekend.

1:22:07It was just like, wow. Is there animosity there between Vinatieri and the Patriots? I mean, he basically cut him. Yeah, true.

1:22:18Nick Shook:Long memory. Some players have long memories. And maybe he immediately followed it up with, and I think he's the greatest coach of all time. He was quick to do that, and he did give respect in other ways. But look, if Bill Belichick didn't handle that situation well, and they haven't really talked much since, that's the risk you take, I guess. In a very blue Hall of Fame speech, Vinatieri doesn't really give you that much love. uh like he did a whole bit on you know peyton manning's forehead but it was like that it was like maybe he like maybe had a drink or something and went like a little like the tone was just like a little too too hard i don't know maybe i'm just getting soft in my old age i love i like the balls joke though yeah yeah i actually think it's a little refreshing to not i mean look you're talking to somebody who used to volunteer with the local committee to like set up and tear down and do all the stuff behind the scenes and serve wine at the cold jacket dinner and stuff like that I did that when I was like 21, right?

1:23:19Nick Shook:With my dad. And it was like at the highlight of it basically signaled it was the start of the football season. And it was my dad, one of my dad's favorite things. But what I often did during those times is they didn't have time limits. There's no band to play them off. And I, one year I was guarding Michael Strahan's row with Kelly Ripa and everybody else. I was personal detail at that row on a knee, listening to speeches for like hours long, like 90 minute speeches. So to go from that. There was no 90 minute speeches. I used to track this back in the day. There were some like 35 to 40 minute speeches.

1:23:52Now they say they cap it, I think at 12. Some people still go like way over, but they really like, they tried to make it way tighter. Some people still go 15 to 20 or whatever, but in general, it is a tighter operation. Agree with our commenter, Angriest that kickers are just weird. Yeah, they are.

1:24:11Nick Shook:I mean, they are only part of the team in like, that their inclusion on the roster, they go out on the field and practice separately from everybody else. They spend most of the time hanging out in the locker room, in the trainer's room, and then they come on for special teams periods and that's it. So of course they're going to be a little weird. And I always, I always do wonder if Vinatieri hit so many of the biggest clutch kicks of all time, including, you know, the one in the snow, not to win the game in the tuck roll, just to get to overtime. And then he hit one in, in overtime to win the game that was closer, but the, the epic one was to send it to OT.

1:24:46I always wonder if like his blood pressure ran low because I forget if it was a preseason game or like an early regular season game early in his career when Parcells basically told him like if you don't turn around like you're gonna get cut and uh he went out there that day and he hit his kicks nothing you know if you're a rookie and then you can solve that earlier in your career like you're gonna be a great kicker moving forward at least if you're Adam Benetieri um There were some poignant moments. Roger Craig revealed in a taped induction that he has dementia and talked about that his doctors do believe that it came from playing football.

1:25:30He also had many incredibly joyous, beautiful moments, including the Friday night ceremony with Eddie Depardolo, his former owner, getting the gold jacket. It was great. Roger Craig is just an effusive guy. but you know a tinge of bittersweet of what it cost him and you can't help but think about like luke keekly is there getting inducted just the all-time panther and one of the reasons he left the game because of his concussion issues was he just didn't want to risk that and just those two guys getting inducted on the same weekend was was poignant and congratulations to all of them before we go, I just, you threw this out at me.

1:26:10I thought it was a great idea. The 2027 class inductees are crazy. Like if you're Torrey Holt or these guys that have been waiting year after year and you look at who's coming the next couple of years, it is so stacked. This is ridiculous. Here's the list of the people eligible for the first time next season. I'm going to list them in the order I'm going to be specific here of who I think has the best chance to make it right away not who I think should that's a little bit of a different question okay if you want to know should you could ask but Rob Gronkowski Adrian Peterson you could flip those two but I think those two got to go in Ben Roethlisberger who I'd be shocked if he's not a first ballot, and yet I've heard some people disagree.

1:27:05Richard Sherman, Antonio Brown, Gerald McCoy, Andrew Whitworth, Cam Newton, Eric Weddle, Alex Mack, then we're getting deeper Le 'Veon Bell of guys that probably got to wait. But in a normal year, I think Gerald McCoy would be the third guy usually. Like he's made a lot of all pros and he's way down this list. Gronk, Adrian Peterson, Big Ben Sherman. Those are four guys who have a great argument to get in right away. Antonio Brown's going to be an interesting conversation. I'm sure they'll make him wait. He might be the greatest quarter, the greatest wide receiver I've ever covered. I really think he's that good.

1:27:47To me, he actually is a no doubter. It's like that is a lot. Amazing group. Andrew Whitworth might be a no doubter. I don't even know. That is a crazy, crazy group. I don't know where you would stack those guys, what you think about all those great players at once.

1:28:01Nick Shook:Your slam dunk first ballots have to be Gronk and Adrian Peterson. And then from there, it's essentially, who else do we have to get on the list that has already been eligible before? Do any of these guys surpass them? It's going to get, and this is what happens, is every year that passes, some of these guys don't make it, the backfield tends to come in and kind of overtake them, especially when it's a strong group like this. I would like to see Whitworth. I don't think he's going to be a first ballot, but I think that the longevity, the high level of performance, the second act of his career with the Rams should get him in quickly.

1:28:36Nick Shook:I don't think it'll be a first ballot, but I think Gronk and AP are pretty much like two slam dunks. Yeah. With Whitworth, he won Walter Payton Man of the Year. He left on that and a title and a first team All-Pro, two first team All-Pros. I think it's total blasphemy that Ben Roethlisberger wouldn't be a first ballot Hall of Famer. That is... And I'm not like a rings guy because that's not about that. It's about that he was one of the three to five best quarterbacks in the league and was weirdly underrated. And yet I don't think he's going to get it. For the second half of his career. Yeah, and I don't think he's going to get the first ballot.

1:29:08Nick Shook:You're crazy. I think he's going to get it. I think he's probably a second guy. And that's the thing is, how many of these guys do you pick from that are newly eligible for the first time? At least those three would be my answer to that question. And then Sherman... I'd have to compare it to the other guys that are waiting because I have a feeling if I look at the guys who didn't make it this year that I'd have Sherman probably ahead of a lot of them. And Whitworth, then he's in that mix and we'd have to get deeper into the conversation. And Tony Brown's the toughest one. I agree with the take that people are going to punish him for everything off the field.

1:29:48He's one of the greatest wide receivers I've ever seen. Point blank.

1:29:51Nick Shook:I mean that's that the idea of him giving a speech has probably got some people nervous though and I know you can discount like that he probably hurt his team at times because of the way that he act and so that's why like if you made a year or whatever he also was a four-time first team all pro his stretch what this is this is a thing for another day his stretch from 2013 to 2017 like He was playing at the same time as Megatron and Andre Johnson. I thought he was better than them. Yeah. Anyways. I don't know if he was better than Megatron. At the time. He was. Yeah. He's right there. Yeah. Definitely right there.

1:30:31Moss. Yeah. Yeah. And man, those Steelers. I don't know. People love the Steelers. They'll probably all get in. We love the Steelers. We love all 32 teams equally. Even if you say that we don't. And we're going to be covering them all week long. Shook, thank you. We'll be doing this again next Sunday night. So check us out. Then check us out in the feed. Hit that music, Eric. Let's get out of here. We are going to be welcoming Jordan Rodrigue back onto the program on the show that's going to go up on Monday. We are doing NFC South. We haven't, yeah, I'm like, which South haven't we done? Trevor Sykema, fan favorite already.

1:31:12Also coming back on the show on Monday for that. Join us then.

1:31:20Nick Shook:This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.