In short
Best-of NFL News discussion covering (1) Cincinnati Bengals’ potential trade of defensive end Trey Hendrickson and what it means for their playoff chances, (2) Brian Flores’ discrimination lawsuit against the NFL and the league’s expected appeals, plus related NFL legal disputes (John Gruden), and (3) other contract/roster news including Steelers DT Cam Hayward’s pay dispute and a debate about NFL receiving corps.
Guests (hosts)
Ocho (former NFL player, speaks as a veteran) and Kyle Brandt (NFL media commentator referenced in-episode). They debate team-building, cap strategy, and fairness in NFL discipline.
Guest backgrounds (as stated/implicated)
Ocho is a former player with direct experience in NFL press/league operations and on-field scuffles; Kyle Brandt is an NFL analyst/commentator who cites modern-era sack/trade history.
Key claims
Bengals should not trade Hendrickson because he’s a top sack/pressure producer; trading him for only a draft pick won’t help “this year.” NFL discipline and hiring/promotion systems are structurally unfair. Flores’ case will be appealed; Gruden’s case allows discovery and a day in court.
Notable examples
Hendrickson’s back-to-back 17+ sack production; comparison to Jared Allen (2008) being traded after leading the NFL in sacks. Flores sued in 2022; Nevada Supreme Court ruling favors Gruden with ~$70M at stake. Hayward’s 2023 bounce-back (8 sacks, 71 tackles) and Steelers asking him to take a pay cut.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOBengals' Defensive Strategy Discussion
0:31 to 0:55
Analyze the Bengals' decisions regarding trade offers for Trey Hendrickson.
“With ChatGPT Work, you bring the goal, plus real inputs like briefs, notes, files, feedback, data, and project plans.”
Bengals' Defensive Strategy Discussion
2:22 to 8:00
Analyze the Bengals' decisions regarding trade offers for Trey Hendrickson.
“They're also targeting defensive players in a potential deal.”
Trade Decisions and Future Implications
8:00 to 15:25
Explore the implications of potential trades and the Bengals' defense improvement.
“Ocho, you guys scored 38 and lose 41-38.”
Jerry Jones and the Business of the Cowboys
15:34 to 26:05
Discussion on Jerry Jones' management style and the implications for the Dallas Cowboys.
“The Big 3 playoffs are coming to Dallas, Texas.”
Brian Flores Lawsuit and NFL Discrimination
26:05 to 28:06
Analysis of Brian Flores' lawsuit against the NFL regarding racial discrimination.
“In February of 2022, Flores sued the NFL and several teams saying the league was rife with racism, particularly in its hiring and promotion of black coaches.”
Understanding NFL Power Dynamics
28:06 to 40:07
Explore the deep-rooted power dynamics within the NFL and the challenges faced by minority coaches in seeking justice.
“Let's understand the ecosystem and the powers that be when it comes to the NFL.”
Cam Hayward's Contract Situation
41:15 to 42:00
Discussion about Cam Hayward's salary and expectations as a D-tackle in the NFL.
“Cam Hayward is open to sending out regular season games in search of a raise.”
Defensive Tackle Contracts and Market Value
42:00 to 45:40
Discussion on the rankings and market value of defensive tackles in the NFL.
“oh, the first thing they're going to say, oh, my goodness, you can't play on$15 million.”
Assessing the Steelers' Defensive Needs
45:40 to 48:40
Exploration of the Steelers' defensive strategies and player contracts.
“Chris Jones is the highest paid at$31 ,750.”
Evaluating NFL Receiving Corps
48:40 to 52:10
Debate on which NFL teams have the top receiving corps this season.
“because now you're going into a season where you're trying to compete in the division.”
Show all 14 chapters
Gruden's Appeal Against the NFL
52:10 to 56:00
Insights into John Gruden's legal battle with the NFL and its implications.
“If you don't believe that about your team, who will?”
Joint Practices and Player Tensions
56:00 to 58:42
Explore the dynamics of joint practices and the scuffles that arise among players.
“But at times, you get tired of going against yourself.”
Competition and Team Dynamics
58:42 to 1:00:44
Discuss how competition drives players and the individual matchups that define a team's success.
“We doing it snap the whistle or snap the after the whistle?”
Coaching Strategies in Joint Practices
1:00:44 to 1:04:16
Learn about coaching strategies during joint practices and the importance of preparation.
“you want to make sure you look good and be able to put on a show in that joint practice to let them know I'm still him, whoever it is.”
Transcript
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2:22have capital in return. They're also targeting defensive players in a potential deal. Last season, Hendrickson ranked first in sack, first in pressure, sixth in pressure rates, third in havoc plays, second in tackle for losses. The last two seasons, off the field, Hendrickson, a defense. With him off the field, Ocho, your 30-second in pressure rate, 30-second in success rate, 30-second in pass rating. When he's on the field, your top 12 in pressure rates, top 12 in success rate, top 12 in passer rating. I don't understand this. This is what I don't understand. You knew you weren't going to play him.
3:01They knew that, Ocho, but what they thought, he was going to do what he did last year. Oh, he'll come in. He told you he wasn't. Just like Chase said, if y 'all pull that bull jive y 'all did last year, I'm not coming in. He said he wasn't coming. Y 'all knew y 'all wasn't. See, I don't understand, Ocho. So why would you not move him before the draft and get somebody? Get a draft pick. Listen, I have no idea. I thought maybe, I'm thinking maybe, maybe Mike Brown, Katie, Troy, Duke, understanding that Trey Hendrickson loves not just the team, but loves the game of football. And maybe he would fold at some point and come back.
3:47And obviously he's one that understands the business. and you got to hit while the fire is hot. Yes. You got to hit while the stove is hot. And this is his time. This is his time to hit based on what he's done, not just last year, but the previous year as well. But then you also look at it from their viewpoint. Well, hell, you had 17 sacks last year, but our defense was horrible. But you paid your quarterback and your two wide receivers. But our offense was phenomenal. So let me make sure I hear this right. This is what Trey Ringo said. He said, let's recap. The Bengals have a generational Hall of Fame quarterback.
4:21They paid their two top targets. Despite all this, they missed a playoff last season because their defense was terrible. So how do they fix that? By listening to trade offers for the best defensive player, unsigned defensive end, Trey Hendrickson. This is how management fails its players. Kyle Brandt said, if the Bengals trade Trey Hendrickson, it will just be the second time in the modern era that a player has led the NFL in sack and to be traded the following season. The only other time that happened, Kansas City traded Hall of Famer Jared Allen to Minnesota in 2008. Allen was first team All-Pro three times with the Vikings.
5:02Well, I mean, the reports are saying they are listening. They're listening to trade offers. Yeah, they're listening to trade offers. Oh, Joe, but you knew you weren't going to pay him. He had made it abundantly clear. you guys so whatever y 'all work behind things he's like okay he came back okay maybe if i get close there they see me there hey we can engage again they were unwilling he's not gonna take what you're gonna offer him 17 and a half sacks and back-to-back years there are not very many guys that's played since the sack became an official stat in 1982 right have put together 17 and a half sacks in back-to-back seasons yeah he's done that i just don't know how you think Like you got, Ocho, if you couldn't stop anybody with him, who the hell are you stopping without him?
5:52We saw last year Chase had the triple crown. Burrow led the league in what? Passing yards and passing touchdowns. And you missed the playoffs because your defense was atrocious. And what do you do? Clearly, the guy that's leading years ahead of everybody on your defense, it's not even close. And remember, Ocho, you released Pratt, your linebacker. Yeah. He wanted a deal as well. Pratt went to the Raiders.
6:23Go ahead, Ocho. Oh, yeah. Okay, chat. Me, listen. It's the business. Understand how the business works. I think the Bengals see it as we were very bad defensively last year with you. You just got worse. Yeah, I mean, you never know. Shamar Stewart. What will Shamar Stewart be for us this year? He's a rookie. I'm not saying we're counting on a rookie to come in. How many rookies have ever had 17 sacks in a season? I'm not saying he's going to get 17. I'm just saying the way the business works, paying you top dollar, and you're bringing a rookie that's on what? Who knows? A minimal salary. Minimal salary.
7:07And can come in and contribute. He might not get 17 sacks, but will do maybe not a good job at Trey Henderson, but be efficient. The most sacks ever by a rookie is Javon Curse in 1999. He had 14 and a half. And listen, I'm not going to be disrespected. No, I don't know if he's Freak. We'll have to see, but Freak was special. I played against Freak. Oh, yeah, he was the real deal. He was the real deal. I'm excited, though. I mean, I'm excited. I mean, listen, I don't know what's going to happen. I don't think whatever does happen, our identity in Cincinnati, our identity is our offense. And I said it and I could say it again.
7:48I don't know what we're going to do defensively, but we have to improve from last year. We don't need you to be the best defense in the world. We don't need you to be the best. Wait, let me finish. I just need you to be somewhere in the middle of the pack, 15, 16, be able to make be able to make stops when it matters most I don't need you to be number one I don't need you to be number two I don't need you to be three, four, or five I just need you to meet us halfway meet the offense halfway 15, 16, 17 somewhere around there we're going to be alright if you had a Pat Sertan if you had a Stingley if you had a Sauce Gardner you had a Ramsey if you had one of those top guys I could say okay Ocho you can hold up a little longer get a guy but y 'all don't have that Y 'all best defensive player, hands down, and it wasn't even close, is Trey Hendrickson.
8:42Ocho, you guys scored 38 and lose 41-38. Ocho, you guys scored 35 and lose 38-35. Because you couldn't get off the field. Yeah. With that being said, I don't know how you're going to improve. I don't know if you've made that big of an improvement defensively, defensively, even with Stewart, he will have to be Kirst, Micah, Aaron Donald, LT. You're going to have to have those kind of seasons, don't you? Yeah, I don't know. Listen, you've been around the game for a long time. We've seen situations like this happen, occur on many other teams. They don't feel he's worth the price tag that he's asking for.
9:28They've already paid T. They've already played Chase. They played Joe. I mean, this is just, he's the odd man out. He's the odd man out, and now they're listening to trade offers. But, you know, well, maybe if you trade him, well, you can't trade him for Micah because you can't pay Micah. I'm trying to say who you're going to trade him. Who can you trade him for? Because if you trade him just for a draft pick, you don't get nothing to help you this year, and you need help this year. Whoa, whoa. Time out. Rewind that. Rewind him right back. Now, you just got me excited. you just got me excited I don't know how much money is left over I don't know anything that can manipulate the cap and make it happen is there any way any scenario that we can get Michael Parsons you could have three guys making over 40 million on your roster hey I like the way that sounds you want to play Trey Hendricks you want to play Trey Hendricks in 30 million but you're going to give Michael Parsons 43, 44 million Can I ask you a question?
10:33How old is Trey Hendrickson? Ask how old is Trey. 32? 30. How old is Michael Parsons? 25. He came out early, so he might be 26. 26? Now ask me that question again. Would they pay him 43? No. They wouldn't. They wouldn't. they would yeah you know i can ask right now i can i can call i can call personnel right now they're not they're not they're first of all they're not paying a 55 million quarterback a 43 45 million dollar defensive player a 41 million dollar wide receiver and a 30 million dollar wide receiver they're not having that they're not paying that hold on
11:22they just ocho y 'all just started spending money two years ago with burrow think about all the great players that you guys have had that have left right I'm going to call somebody upstairs it's hypothetical I'm going to see what they say
11:49damn I like that that's crazy
11:56DJ Hill Chris Jenkins I don't know, Ocho. Y 'all might be in the same situation again. Nah, I don't think so. Hey, I have a question. Would it be rude if I call Zach and ask that? That's rude, huh? You can ask him whatever you want to ask him. That's not offensive, right? It's just a regular question. Regular question for what? To ask Zach Taylor if I call and ask. Is that rude? You can ask him whatever you want to, Ocho. We'll sit right here and watch. Wait. I don't know if the chat believes you calling him, but sure. We'll hold on. Yeah, I'm texting. Look.
12:40Can you see that, Al? No. I said, Coach, are you up? I want to make sure you're up. I don't want to call. It's 12 o 'clock. They play tomorrow, so I don't know. It's 12-19. They playing in D.C. What's the time difference in D.C.?
13:00Dallas is on central time DC is on eastern time so oh it's 12-19 I call EB you know EB right you know Eric Ball no Eric Ball played with the Bengals when you was playing with with David Fulcher DB? No. Wait. I think Eric Ball might have been a running back. I think you probably know him when you see him. He's been over there since I was there. Before I got there. Yeah, Eric Ball. Part of player. I forgot. I don't know how to pronounce. What are you? Community relations guys? Yeah. I think his. Oh, he's a player personnel department. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Player engagement. It might be something. Quiet confidence.
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16:12that our tobacco has taken root in for over two centuries and counting. Here's to the calloused hands of freedom. Copenhagen, saluting American grit, proven since 1822. Warning, this product is not a safe alternative to cigarettes. Yeah, I probably stopped something like that, something like that. Ocho, Jerry Jones continues to believe all publicity is good publicity. Jerry said, I do believe that if we're not being looked at, then I'll do my part to get us looked at. The beautiful thing for networks or if you were streaming companies is that the NFL is a 365 day a year interest factory. A lot of programming.
16:54You have to spend as much to promote as you as you do to make it. The Cowboys are so proper 365 days a year. When it gets slow, I'll stir it up. Ocho, Jerry said he be he be he be stirring the pot. Listen, man, everybody in the chat, I use this moniker, I use this phrase, I use this analogy last night. I don't think Jerry Jones understands the product that he owns and controls. Frank Lucas in American Gangster, he had blue magic, huh? Yeah. Best product out there in the business, in the world. You didn't have to do anything to it because it's soul itself.
17:37Jerry why are you cutting it up you don't need to cut it up in any smaller pieces for to do what it's going to do without you in the picture it's going to sell itself no matter what the Cowboys will always be talked about whether you come out and say something or not because it's the Cowboys I don't I don't I don't listen I don't he's not in the business of winning he continues to show us at time and time again. He's in the business of making money. He's in the business of, you said, he's in the business of making money. He is great at that. And that's just what it is. I feel sorry for the fans.
18:12I feel sorry for the players that have to deal with that. You want to play for the Cowboys, you want to play for America's team, got a star on the helmet, but it's more of a circus than it is a football team and the one at the top. Success on any team, it starts at the top. it just triggers on down. But if the circuit starts at the top, what do you think the product is going to look like? Come on, man. It don't got to be Sunday for me to preach. Come on, man. You know what I know? That's a, man. You know what I know? Hey, look. I don't expect to Jerry, but come on now. The Cowboys, I think I just read today, the Cowboys are worth$12.8 billion.
18:52That's all. The most expensive franchise, not just North America, of all sports franchises. basketball, football, baseball, these soccer teams, Euro, all that. Nothing. If it's a sports club, sports franchise, nothing is more valuable than the Cowboys. Nothing. The man is in the business of making money. That's it. I don't have a problem with that. Don't try to disguise the talk about you care about winning because you don't. You care about selling tickets. You care about keeping interest in your team. Not about winning. Hey, actions speak louder than words. Yeah. Actions show otherwise. And based on his actions, it lets us know I'm in the business of lining my pockets and staying the most profitable sports franchise in the world.
19:48That's it. And if he's okay with that, then so be it. But he does set a precedent. Yeah. He sets a precedent to the coaches. he sets a precedent to the players and the way he conducts himself when it comes to business but it is what it is it's the Cavs, it's the Maricine I heard Emmitt at this docuseries the other night when he was at Netflix and he was talking about at some point in time it comes down to the players because that's what we did Emmitt I want to know the Emmitt Smith the Michael Irvin Michael Irvin was the leader of the team. Yes, sir. And then you had Haley. And you look at the guys that you had.
20:30You had Jimmy. You had Jimmy. And then y 'all got Deion. If you don't get Deion, y 'all not going to be – if he stays in San Francisco, guess who winning? San Francisco. He's flipped the balance of power. Yeah. Y 'all don't have the level of players, do you mean? I'm sorry. You don't. You don't. You look at the defense that they had back then. boy were loaded they were loaded look at that offensive line they had Big Easy they had Larry Allen they had Nate Newton I think they still had Step I think Tua Nate was still there man stop that offensive line y 'all got Troy was probably one of the most accurate quarterbacks especially for that time right different Different.
21:26But you got to realize, Jimmy wasn't doing all this talking back then either, though, Emmitt. Jimmy wasn't having that. That's why he got Jimmy up out of there. Yeah. He wasn't doing all this talking. I don't know about you, Ocho, but I was in the league. Mm-hmm. I was in the league. And I know it wasn't no 24-hour news cycle, but in press conference, they didn't have no mics in front of Jimmy. I mean, in front of Jerry. The mics were in front of Jimmy, and it drove Jerry crazy.
21:57damn that's crazy but I agree with you the Cowboys brand is so strong you ain't got to say nothing nothing we're going to talk about it regardless outlets, analysts, punters podcasts, people on the street people in the barbershop I don't remember hey, you ever hear Mr. Kraft talk prior to the Super Bowl I hear him talking the AFC Championship game when he getting the trophy or that when he getting the trophy so he normally getting trophies when he talking yeah yeah Jerry talking to hear himself talk like man forgot what my voice heard like I ain't been on no I ain't been on no platform and got no trophy in a long time so you heard what you heard what Denzel Washington said what that opinionaires yeah he no I'm talking about the other you know he's Oh, he's talking about Jared.
22:53Oh, he's saying Jared about making money. That's it. That's it. I believe you can do two things. I don't believe they have to be mutually exclusive. I believe you can make money and still win. Yeah. Yeah, you can. The Patriots did it for 20 years. The Chiefs have done it for about a decade now. Right. But then, you know, his retort to what you just said would be, well, they made money. They won Super Bowls, but I'm still the most profitable franchise. Yeah. Would I much rather be number one in that area if I can't be number one on the field? Well, the Cowboys, the Cowboys of America's team when they didn't have Jerry Jones.
23:31So what is he talking about? Hmm. Hey, he didn't name them America's team. They didn't, they had the stadium with the, with the, with the, the, the, the hole in the top. So God could watch his team. He didn't do none of that. Right. So this notion that he created this, he didn't. All the teams have exponentially increased. I mean, you could for what one year salary, what a quarterback make you can used to be able to buy a franchise. Go back and look at some of these franchises, what they paid for. Yeah. Now, that was I mean, that was a boatload of money back then in the 70s. And, you know, that was that was a boatload of money.
24:15But I'm just saying, and today, you know, they 10x, 15, 20x their money. Oh, yeah. So Jerry probably 50x his money. But with that being said, I don't believe that you have to do all that. Jerry wasn't like this. Like I said, Al Davis was his mentor. That's who taught him. He's Al Davis. Al Davis has always been a maverick, always did things. his way. He's like, I'm moving. I'm going to LA. No, you got to get vote. I ain't got to get nothing. It's my team. I bought it. I'm moving. And he sued the league to move. And he sued. I'm going back to Oakland. No, you're not. No, I'm going. Bye. I'm suing.
25:01And that's how Jerry is. Jerry's like, nah, I'm not going to be a part of the collective bargaining when it comes to I'm going to be a part of the revenue sharing when it comes to TV. after that I'm on my own I'm going to do my own independent deals he has a deal with Pepsi he has his own deals he has his own merchandising deal he's like no I'll do that revenue share when it comes to TV but other than that because I can do a better job than you got no problem with that but it's unfortunate At the end of the day, bro, right now we're doing this talking. Yeah. You ain't collecting no trophies.
25:53The second U.S. Court of Appeals in Manhattan ruled that the NFL can be put on trial over civil claims that Brian Flores and other black coaches face discrimination. In February of 2022, Flores sued the NFL and several teams saying the league was rife with racism, particularly in its hiring and promotion of black coaches. Other coaches later joined the lawsuit as plaintiffs. Ocho, I don't know how close you followed this, but I've always felt the way the NFL did business with this discipline was unfair. and God, if you've heard me from CBS, I was on there a decade. I was with Fox for seven years and I like to use this analogy.
26:41Ocho, if I got a speeding ticket, I shouldn't have to go appeal it to the chief of police because it was his department that gave me the ticket. Come on now. I've always thought it was unfair. The NFL hands down this punishment and if I want to go appeal it, guess who I'll appeal it to? Right. The commissioner. Yes, sir. Or someone he appointed. How is that fair? It should be an independent body. That's why they have a court system. That's why they have the post. They're two separate but equal entities. Yes, sir. So I've always felt this was a very, very unfair practice. They've always been able to hide behind Article 46.
27:21Yes, sir. But you gave commission and he's he's everything.
Read the full transcript
27:27he's everything he's the jury he's the judge he's everything that is so so unfair yes even if you have these broad latitudes of power i've always felt the commissioner should get out of the punishment business let someone else handle that let it be an independent body the nfl and the nfl PA should have an independent body. Right. Because you're never, everybody feels they're going to get an unfair hearing. Right. I'm appealing to the head of the entity that handed down the punishment. But this is the thing, huh? Let's understand the ecosystem and the powers that be when it comes to the NFL. Let's say if it does go to an independent body, do you understand?
28:15even with it being an independent body, a separate entity away from the NFL, do you know who still controls the power? Do you know how they're going to be swayed still, where justice is still not going to be due, even though it's a different entity? Do you understand that? I do. Understanding the power structure that you're going up against, the chances of winning are slim to none, whether it comes from the commissioner himself or whether it's a different governing body. I do believe I have a better let me ask you a question if I get a speeding ticket do you think I got a better chance of going to the court or going to the chief of police and having him hear it because think about what happens when when when police officers do something wrong right it's few and far between right that their own department IA internal affairs or the governing body that represents the police, the union, discipline them.
29:13Yes. You're right. There's a greater chance that the court, look, the court system has said, you know, hey, that imminent any threat, be it real or perceived. Let that sink in, Ocho. Real or perceived. Yes. Yes.
29:37You have to understand it. You know, well, for those that don't understand, maybe on the outside looking in, even with this ruling now being able to be or go to court. They're going to appeal it now. Even if they appeal it, you understand the animal in the power structure. Of course. That you're going up against the machine. I have a question, huh? Yes. In the history. In the history of law in general. How many times have the people, even those that have been discriminated against, even those who serve right and deserve justice, how many times is machine law, son? It doesn't happen often, but you can't get deterred.
30:19Just imagine if Dr. King would have gotten disturbed or deterred or all those people that marched in the 50s and the 60s had gotten deterred. Rosa Parks, if she had said, you know what, ain't nothing going to change. So let me just go ahead and give my feet up. You know what? I'm glad you just said that, right? I'm glad you just said that. So everything we've been through in the 50s, right? The 60s. All those that sacrifice. Yes. We had one that sacrificed even recently. Brother Kaepernick. Yes. Taking a knee. Yes. Standing for something. Yes. I have a question for you. Yes. Has anything changed since then?
30:58In the NFL? No, no, no. Not the NFL in general. just with everyone you just named, but 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s? Yes. Happening. Has anything changed yet? It doesn't seem like it, Ocho. It seems like if we take a step forward, we take a couple of steps back. Okay. But if you... Yeah, talk to me. Think about your grandparents. Yes, sir. Then your parents were in that same situation and you said ain't nothing changed. So I might as well just stay in the same Liberty City, do what they did, and not try my damnedest to improve the situation. Where would we be? We try our damnedest to improve the situations, right?
31:36That's what you could do. Stay with me real quick. There was a time in the 50s, in the 60s, where they were able to wear their hoods. Huh? Yes. Daylight, in broad daylight. Yes. Because it was accepted. So now they've gone away from that part. So the hoods are gone. Yes. Now they wear robes. Now they hold gavels. now they have they have suits and ties on now they're in positions of power to where okay it seems like things have changed or things may be different but it really hasn't because now they're just in positions of power and controlling everything and that's what they do and that's that's the way the system is to me it's all about understanding the system and being able to fight it, being able to fight it and understanding that I'm going to do all I can to try and improve the situations around me.
32:28It makes some type of impact. But the way the ecosystem is built in general, the way it's structured, is built for you never to win. They would never allow us to ever get in position to be able to make that change. And the ones who do that look like us, that happen to get them and wear the suit and ties to, you got to play by their rules. But see what you did? You see what you said? But when we get a chance to get in that position, do we do? Do we lift someone up or do we kick the ladder and say, I'm up on the top of the roof now? So I'm good. I'm up here. I don't want nobody to look like you join me up here.
33:06Stay one more time, though. Listen to what I said. Yes. When they do allow you and put you in positions of power, you have to play their game by their rules. That's why they even let you get in that position to begin with. sometimes that's correct but you have to look at it Ocho think about a system that's been in place for as long as it's had right you think you're going to dismantle a system that's been in place for 400 years in 30 years you're not I know I know one thing that system that's been in place for however long it's been in if they allow you to be in that position of power you better play by their rules.
33:46And there's an understanding that you have to do that in order to be there. But I mean, this is a great topic. You know, I'm not one to really talk about politics and stuff like that, but I can go. I can go now. But I love the fact that says nah, because they said, because if you go back and look at the ruling, he said the judge, like, ain't no chance that this is fair. Under no circumstance. At all. Even if he were to appoint someone. it's still him so you like an arbitrator that he appointed is going to rule against the man that appointed him right you're right make it make sense now yeah you're right again we go back i got the speeding ticket and i'm going to the i go to the chief of police right okay well guess what the chief's not going to hear we're going to give it to a the corporal he'll hear it he still no no no no it needs to be a separate body that's why the police they do what they do and then guess what your job is done we go into court and now we have a whole different body with 12 men and women that's going to determine it because if it was left up to the police they would have 100 % 100 % absolutely but just in this case what happened with brother Flores and other coaches that look like us.
35:10Minorities for that matter. I love that they're standing on Bendis in general and they're going to get in court. But I also do understand the other dynamic of it and understanding who you're fighting against. Yeah. Oh, they got a lot of money. They can throw a lot of. The funny thing about it, the thing about it is not even about the money. is the power in which they can sway any ruling to make sure they're not at fault. Because that fight that they're fighting about, it's still going on today with opportunities not being given to certain individuals that look a certain way. Nothing has changed.
35:48Also, when it comes to the quarterback position, that's still prevalent in today's game as well. Yeah, but the thing is, I don't want to dive deep and go into it and go in depth, but there's so many different layers I can peel back right now that I choose not to do. But listen, only a blind man, only a blind man would not understand what I'm talking about. No, only a man that choose not to understand what you're talking about. And for those that can't see and don't know and are going to play maybe naive. Devil's advocate. Yeah. And dumb to the situation when the facts are clear as day that you can see.
36:24Come on now, let's not do that. But, hey, the man gets to have his day in court, and we'll see what happens. And then, you know, you go from there. But I can assure you they're going to appeal this. The Nevada Supreme Court has ruled in favor of former Raiders head coach John Gruden in his appeal against the NFL. Gruden will get discovery and a day in court alleging that Commissioner Roger Goodell and the NFL improperly leaked his email leading to his firing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, hey, that's another one that's going to be interesting. That's another one that's going to be interesting. Well, you can't appeal.
37:04And now, they might appeal this to the Supreme Court. Right. They might appeal. Because the Nevada Supreme Court said, nah, no, no, no. He gets the score. He gets the score. Because, Ocho, you got to realize there's$70 million at stake. He had a 10-year,$100 million deal. They fired him. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, that's guaranteed, though. You know, when coaching – They didn't pay him because they – calls. He got fired for calls. So, their probable cause and getting fired, that's like a player getting in trouble. Conduct gets him into the team. We can take that money back. Okay, I didn't know that part.
37:37Yes. I didn't know that part. Okay, okay. So, would I be surprised if they went all the way to the Supreme Court? Yes, sir. I absolutely would not. The NFL doesn't like to take L's. Right. Because remember, you take one, then everybody else feels like, hey, we got him vulnerable. We got him weak. We can jump on. Look how big the giraffe feels. All it takes is for one lion to weigh him down, and then there come the rest. Everybody else. That's how they get the – unless they catch it napping. Every once in a while, they'll catch one napping. He done let it get too late in the day, and he's still resting, and they catch him.
38:16But for the most part, one of those big males, a jump on his back. Yeah, it's a wrap. That's 400 pounds. And he's like, hey, he can't support that. And here he comes. But look, the NFL, they've made it abundantly clear in the appellate court against Brian Flores, they're going to appeal. I can see them appealing this all the way to the Supreme Court. He's still the defensive coordinator in Minnesota. Yeah, he absolutely is.
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40:03Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting Work Mode. Available on Plus and Pro Plans. Ice Cube's Big 3 season is heating up And it all comes down to this The Big 3 playoffs are coming to Dallas, Texas The four best teams in the Big 3 Battle it out for a spot in the championship The action starts with the legendary Big 3 Celebrity Game Three games of the most physical, competitive And non-stop three-on-three action The game played the way you love Watch live Saturday on CBS At 12 p.m. Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific And catch replays Monday on BET Presented by iHeart To honor our country on its 250th birthday, this can of Copenhagen goes out to those defending the free American soil that our tobacco has taken root in for over two centuries and counting.
41:00Here's to the calloused hands of freedom. Copenhagen, saluting American grit, proven since 1822. Warning, this product is not a safe alternative to cigarettes. Uh-oh, Joe. Cam Hayward is open to sending out regular season games in search of a raise. Cam Hayward, who's the 22nd highest paid DT, said he's looking to be valued. It's hard for me after the year I had to really justify playing at that number I'm playing at. Hayward said the team asked him to take a pay cut last summer. They ironed out a rework deal instead that runs through 2026. Hayward responded by bouncing back from an injury-marred 2023 season to finish with eight sacks, 71 tackles, 11 pass defense as the Steelers went 10-7 and reached the playoffs for the fourth time in five years.
41:53Hey, listen. Cam Hayward said, I can't play at$15 million. Now, those that are on the outside watching, fans, NFL fans, oh, the first thing they're going to say, oh, my goodness, you can't play on$15 million. They don't see it from that perspective. of actually being an athlete, being an all-pro player, and being a D-tackle that I'm not sure when it comes to D-tackles where he's ranked when it comes to D-tackles in the NFL right now as far as where he should be slated at. Next to Lawrence, one of the betters, the Ed Olivers, one of the betters. He's different because he's a five technique because they're a 3-4 defense.
42:31So he's not like in your typical like a Warren Sapp. He's not like Aaron Donald with Aaron Donald within the 43. three. He's a three, four. He's more of a JJ Watt. He's a five technique. Right. And so I don't want to, I'm going to try to keep it simple, but if you notice, they got two life, they got a nose tackle. They got two ends and they got two linebackers. So they got four linebackers, Sam on the wheel, a Mike and a plug. And they got three down linemen. He's what we call a five technique. He's a defensive end, but he played a five technique, not the three technique or what we call the under tackle that Joe Green made famous and the Warren Sapp, the Johnny Randles and the Aaron Donald, those type of guys.
43:13He's a five tech. And so with that being said, but the Steelers say, hold on, bro. We just redid your contract last year. Last year. Yeah. But they asked him to take a pay cut. They asked him to take a pay cut. I'm assuming because of his injury and his play might've been down. So is it warranted that he gets a raised after making all the votes. He should have just signed a one-year deal. I agree with you, Ocho. Look, I'm just, from a Steelers perspective, okay, Ocho, you come in there, you're like, hey, bro, I want to, hey, man, I need such and such. Well, you know, Ocho, you didn't have the best year now.
43:52Okay. So what you thinking? Well, how about this? We're going to tell you, we're going to do this. We're going to give you 29 million for the next two years. Okay. Well, that's the risk that you run because what he didn't expect was for the defensive market to explode like it has. So now what looked like a really good deal is like chicken feed to him. So now you get Miles Garrett. You got his teammate making 41 million. Miles Garrett making 40. You got Nick Bosa. You got Max Crosby. You got Danelle Hunter. You got Michael Parsons. You got all these guys. And he's like, hold on. Yeah. He can't compare.
44:46He can't compare himself. Because he played. He has to compare himself to the D tackles that played a five technique or other. He looked at the D tackles. Kristen Wilkins was making 25, 24 million. Look at Dexter Lawrence. Give me the top five highest paid D-tackles. I'm curious. I'm curious because I'm not – Jeffrey Simmons got to be up there too over there in Tennessee. Yeah, Simmons, Lawrence, Christian Wilkins was making$24.5 million. Did he get picked up yet? No. Okay. I'm trying to think. Who else? D-tackles, D-tackles. Oh, Vitavia. Vitavia got to be top five paid as well. but him being at 22 that's tough
45:38Ash is saying it to me yeah I agree to Ocho is that you know you looking at guys I mean at defensive players you got like okay D tackles okay where's the D tackles market the D tackles market is in the mid 20s he's like bro I'm at 14 and a half 15 So what would make it happen? What would make him happy, you think? Maybe 18? Chris Jones is the highest paid at$31 ,750. Why did I pick Chris Jones? From the Bravens, 24 and a half. Alam McNeil from Detroit,$24 ,250. Derrick Brown, Carolina,$24. Quinty Williams,$24. Simons, Jeffrey Simmons. I don't know why I called him Keith. Simmons is 23-5. DeForest Buckner, Colts, 23.
46:32Deron Payne, Washington, 22-5. Dexter Lawrence, 21-8-7-5. Kenny Clark, 21. I got something for you right here. I'm going to tell you how the Rooney's thinking. I'm going to tell you what Tomlin's thinking. How old is Cam Hayward? Cam came in in 2011, so he at least 36 at the bare minimum. they not they not doing it they not doing it everybody you just I did everybody you just named are they even 30 yet Jones is Jones is the best Jones is the best best D tackle in the NFL you know he's 31 but I don't think Mattel Bikway I don't think McNeil Quinny I don't think Quinny is is Quinny 30 he might be 36 come on now Quinny Williams 27 damn listen you remember Quinny Williams when he on draft night when he sneezed and he said he blessed himself hey but 36 I mean listen and I see Ocho it's gonna be hard for them to put him in that situation.
47:59Because he's like, okay, 15. Can you give me the 20?
48:06Okay, what? 20. Maybe, you know what we can do? We can give you something to sign a bonus. We'll take some of the money on the back end and bring it on the front end and put it into a sign a bonus so it doesn't affect the cap. But guess what that does? That takes money off next year's cap. That takes money off next year's base salary. And now, that 15 is 10. Yeah. I'm just trying to find a way. I know it's going to be very difficult, but knowing him and him saying he's going to stand his ground and not play, that's going to be tough because now you're going into a season where you're trying to compete in the division.
48:44You have Aaron Rodgers, and the defense is stacked with all the people that you just added. Your identity now, I'm not calling you the goddamn steel curtain, but with the team, with the players you have on paper, you should be very good and be able to compete week in and week out, especially in AFC North and against other teams that you do play. I agree. And you are a intricate part of that defense. He's the captain. Where it matters most. You're one of the captains of the defense. Damn, man, that's tough. That's tough for the Steelers. Ocho, remember the other night we talked about Dalvin Cook, and I say his value is somewhere between 11 and 13?
49:21I said 13-5 so where do you fall at? What? James Cook 12? 12 4 years 48 I said the max there probably be is 4 years 52 but I can see you know 11-13 he's going to fall somewhere 11-13 I say he not 15 he ain't breaking up right right he got 30 minutes he's going to be alright I don't see that 30 every dollar so he's gonna be all right but hey he's like nah y 'all nothing to get me y 'all finna get me something i ain't finna play on this contract
50:00camber cam ward believes he has a top five receiver core in the nfl right now ocho do you believe that uh the titans have a top five receiving core top five Eagles let's go to Eagles Bucks Bucks Lions
50:27Packers Vikes I said Vikes already when Terry McLaurin comes back him and Debo even though they haven't played together we know what they can do. They've shown enough over the years. What about the Rams? With Puga Nakua and Devontae. Oh my goodness. Rams, Puga Nakua and Devontae Adams. Obviously we know what Devontae Adams do. What about Dolphins? But listen. Ooh, Tyreek and Waddle. What about the Bears?
51:00Adunze, DJ Moore. And Burton. Burton. You know, he ooh, Hold on. We know what Tyler Lockett could do. We know what Calvin Ridley is. That boy. Do they have a top five receiving core? I wouldn't say top five. That's all I want to hear you say. I wouldn't say top five. Yeah. Hey, they have a very, very good receiver in Calvin Ridley, though. PFF has them as the third worst receiving core.
51:34For real? Well, listen. Listen, look. Browns. Based on all the teams that we just. Browns are the worst than the Patriots, and then they got the Titans.
51:45I see. Oh, that's tough, boy. I just know they weren't top five. Yeah, you got to believe. It ain't not top five. But you have to say that. You're the quarterback. Oh, yeah, for sure. You have to feel that way about. Sometimes you got to lie to them, Ocho. You got to lie to them. Hey. Whoa. We didn't even mention CeeDee Lamb and George Pickens. Man. We didn't, but you did. So there you go. You got to feel that way, though. Yeah, for sure. If you don't believe that about your team, who will? Right. And who's the number three over there in Tennessee? Now you got me thinking. I don't know. Tyler Lombie, Calvin Ridley, who's the number three?
52:33Chad, who's the number three? Somebody tell me. Who's the number three in? Number three, the third wide receiver. Van Jefferson. Okay, okay. Van Salah. Van was with the Rams. Yes. He was with Pittsburgh. Where was he last year?
52:58Yeah, I said since he first. I said since he first. I thought so. He was with Pittsburgh last year. Yeah, Cam, you look. I appreciate you pumping up your squad but y 'all not top five I'm not even sure y 'all top ten when we really get down to and we start naming naming receiving cards Ocho I'm not sure they top ten hey I know one thing Calvin really is that boy but it's more to make a receiving course more than one Nevada Supreme Court has ruled in favor of former head Raiders head coach John Gruden in his appeal against the NFL. Gruden will get discovery and a day in court, alleging that Commissioner Roger Goodell and the NFL improperly leaked his email leading to his firing.
53:50Yeah. And, hey, that's another one that's going to be interesting. That's another one that's going to be interesting. Well, you can't appeal. Now, they might appeal this to the Supreme Court. Right. they might supreme because the nevada supreme court said nah no no no he gets the score he gets this because ocho you gotta realize there's 70 million dollars at stake he had a 10 year 100 million dollar deal they fired him oh yeah oh yeah well that's guaranteed though you know when coach and getting when they didn't pay him because they cause he got fired for cause so they're probable cause and getting fired and that that's like a player getting in trouble conduct get your minutes to the team we can take that money back okay i didn't know that part Yes.
54:32I didn't know that part. Okay, okay. So would I be surprised if they went all the way to the Supreme Court? Yes, sir. I absolutely would not. The NFL doesn't like to take L's. Right. Because remember, you take one, then everybody else feels like, hey, we got him vulnerable. We got him weak. We can jump on. Right. Look how big the giraffe feels. All it takes is for one lion to weigh him down, and then there come the rest. Everybody else. That's how they get the, unless they catch him napping. Every once in a while, they'll catch him napping, catch one napping. He done let it get too late in the day.
55:08And he's still rested and they catch him. But for the most part, one of those big males, a jump on his back. Yeah, it's a wrap. That's 400 pounds. And he's like, hey, he can't support that. And here he comes. Yeah. But look, the NFL, they've made it abundantly clear in the appellate court against Brian Flores, they're going to appeal. I can see them appealing this all the way to the Supreme Court. He's still the defensive coordinator in Minnesota. He absolutely is. After another joint practice fight between the Ravens and the commanders, the Ravens issued this statement, recognizing the logistical challenges with our team's previous game schedule on different days and the added strain on players heading into a short week, the Ravens and commanders are mutually agreed to no longer hold joint practices next week.
55:56Instead, we'll concentrate on preparing for the upcoming preseason matchup. Ocho? Yeah. Damn. Yeah, I like it. I like it. I mean, it's cool. But at times, you get tired of going against yourself. At times, you get tired of going against yourself. The funny thing about it is the joint practices, they're going to be scuffles. There have been scuffles in every joint practice, every season, back to date. When I was playing, I'm sure there were scuffles. Oh, you said you guys didn't have joint practices. No, we did. We did. Oh, you did? Oh, but hell, if it wasn't a joint practice, hell, you'd be scuffling against each other.
56:32Get it all out your system now. One thing we haven't seen in a very long time, except a few instances, is us as players actually fighting in a game. Now, hell no. That costs you money. Very few instances. They don't play. I remember one time. I can only count three. I can't remember the receiver's name. Chad, you can probably help me out. The receiver who got upset at C.J. Gardner-Johnson. Oh, yeah, yeah. And punched him in the face? Yes, yes. And, like, when the play was over. Yeah. Not the receiver. And then I remember Odell and Josh Norman. Yes. Now, that was – and the most prevalent and consistent of battles was Mike Evans and Marshawn Lattimore.
57:14Mm-hmm. I think Steve Smith got into it with a few people back and forth, but nothing that really came to blows like the ones I just mentioned. Right. And I cannot forget. We're with A.J. Green and Jalen Ramsey. Yep. And Andre Johnson. Yeah. And Cortland Finnegan. Cortland Finnegan. Cortland Finnegan. And classic. Ateeb Kaleeb. Ateeb. Wait, how do you say it? Akeeb. Akeeb. Akeeb Tlaib and Michael Crabtree. Outside of that, I mean, that's it. It happens very, very, very, very, very. It doesn't happen often. But it does happen. Not to the magnitude. Normally, but there's a culmination. There's a buildup to it.
57:53Yeah. This is something that happens over years. Yes, yes. It ain't just one game. It's a history. It's a pattern. Right. And it's like, okay, enough is enough. Because Dre told us, he's like, man, he had been doing this stuff for some years. Years, yeah. And it just built up. And it just, that day, like, you know what? I'm finna put my foot down. Actually, I'm finna put my foot in his ass. And so it was a buildup. But, you know, when you're in joint practice, you got close proximity. because when you fly in, you got flying to BWI, Baltimore, Washington International Airport. It's 50, 60 miles.
58:26Right. If that. So, you know, the close proximity, you know, yada, yada, yada. Everybody say we the toughest, we the baddest, and we get it. Right. I just, for me, I didn't have that kind of time because I was exerting all my energy in practice. I ain't got time to be fighting. Look, hey, how we doing this? We doing it snap the whistle or snap the after the whistle? I just need to know so that way I'm clear on how you play it so I can play just like that. And I, hey, we're not going to do no shoving or what. So how are we doing? Are we protecting each other? Am I going to throw your ass over the pile?
58:59Or what we doing? I just need to know. Because I can do it any kind of way. I'm going to make sure you're not. The one thing, hey, karma's got a lot better. Karma used to take years. Sometimes karma instant. Oh, yeah. Most definitely. Like Instacart. You know, you're just like, dang, I don't know how I'm going to get this. I got to go to the grocery store. You can order it now. You can Instacart stuff, I guess. Oh, yeah. Most definitely. And they'll bring you exactly what... No, sometimes they bring it to you. Yeah, most definitely. But, so I guess the Ravens and the commanders, they were having joint practice and they'd just been fighting, huh?
59:36Damn. Yeah. I saw some footage on Twitter today where it was a big scuffle. I'm assuming they used something maybe from last year. because I haven't seen any scuffles of recent. But, I mean, listen, it's smart on the coaches. You know, prepare for the game. Prepare for – Because the last thing you want to do is get somebody hurt, Ocho. Somebody hurt. Yeah, most definitely. Most definitely. You get somebody hurt because then somebody get hurt, and if it's a key player – Right. Oh, ain't going to be no more practicing. Yeah, at all. So we fight every snap. We fight. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I like it. You know, look, I get it because a lot of times – because you know we do a nine on seven the dbs and wide receivers doing one-on-one hey man hey who winning y 'all y 'all got it right baby killing these fools down here yeah yeah and that's what i'm saying hey listen that's what we got from the titans the titans and falcons their joint practice they they they going at it back and forth because one tennessee player said okay they got us today but we gonna get their ass tomorrow exactly that's what mine said at the end of the day young, it's all about competing.
1:00:42It's all about competing. Those that have already made the team, you want to make sure you look good and be able to put on a show in that joint practice to let them know I'm still him, whoever it is. And if you're not him, I'm trying to make a name for myself right here until I get to do it on Sundays at one o 'clock. If I'm not him, I'm trying to be him. But in the meantime, Ocho, you're talking about we're going to get the ass back tomorrow. Coach ain't trying to hear that. He's going to curse me out for the next two hours and meeting. Right, right, right, right. So I got to hear his mouth. First of all, I had to hear your mouth, how y 'all did on the practice field.
1:01:11And then I got to go to meetings, going to get it from Mike. I'm going to get it from the OC. I'm going to get it from my position coach. Nah, bro, you're not going to do that. And at one point in time, now we might get as a team because I can't control everybody. I'm just one of 11. But when it comes to my one-on-one matchup, coach ain't going to do nothing but pat me on my back and say, good job, son. I need that. I promise you that. I need that. Listen, they love... Your coach is going to be needy, going to have foots in your butt. Absolutely. Not mine. Absolutely. Listen, they call it a team game, huh?
1:01:42Yes. They call it a team game. They say it functions well. It functions well when you play as a team. Yes. But what people fail to realize is when you break it down, all it is is 11 players. 11 individual matchups. 11 individual matchups. And when each one of you win that matchup, it works wonders. It works wonders. But the funny thing about it is sometimes there are weaknesses in that 11. week to week. There's always a weakness somewhere. Yes. So coaches, that's where coaches come to play. I know what this player does well. I know what he doesn't do well. It's a chess match between coordinators on Sundays.
1:02:22How do I hide weaknesses and put certain players in position to make plays? Right. But it's great. Even in joint practice is scripted because they want to look at certain formations against certain defenses. You want to see certain defenses against certain formations. So everybody's trying to do everybody a favor. Now, we don't go, okay, hey, 907, hey, good solid thud, pad on pad, square up. Just let me know, hey, you go across the middle, hey, guy's going to put pads on you. Now, they're not going to take you to the ground, but be prepared for a collision. Yeah, get yourself used to it. Okay.
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From the publisher
Unc & Ocho are back with their WILDEST NFL takes of the week! Shannon Sharpe and Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson react to Jerry Jones turning the Cowboys into a straight-up clown show. Plus, lawsuits the NFL faces against Brian Flores and Jon Gruden respectively. Don’t miss the debates, the laughs, and the hottest NFL storylines right here on Nightcap!
0:00 - Bengal looking to trade Trey Hendrickson?
12:05 - Jerry Jones running a circus in Dallas?
21:22 - Brian Flores vs the NFL
34:20 - Latest on Cam Heyward, Steelers negotiation
46:29 - Jon Gruden vs the NFL
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