In short
NFL Week 11 “best of” recap and debate, focusing on (1) Ravens vs. Browns and the decision to bench Dylan Gabriel and debut rookie Shedeur Sanders, and (2) Eagles vs. Lions in harsh wind, plus AJ Brown–owner drama.
Guests/backgrounds
The episode is hosted by “Ocho” (former NFL player, speaks from quarterback/receiver experience) and “Unc” (co-host, also former player/analyst). No other guests are named in the transcript.
Key claims
- Kevin Stefanski’s handling of Shedeur Sanders is “malpractice” because Sanders reportedly had zero first-team reps with the starters before Week 11.
- Play-calling and timing require QB-receiver cadence; without reps, it’s unfair to judge performance.
- Eagles won 16-9 vs. Lions by playing resilient defense in wind; AJ Brown had a “down night” (7 catches, 49 yards on 11 targets).
- There was a closed-door meeting between AJ Brown and owner Jeffrey Lurie reported by media.
Notable examples
- Sanders stat line: 4/16, 47 yards, 0 TD/INT; multiple late drops.
- Lions QB Jared Goff: 14/37, 1 TD, 1 INT; Gibbs limited (12 carries, 39 yards rushing; 107 receiving).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOShadour Sanders' Debut Performance
2:25 to 2:53
Analyzing Shadour Sanders' first outing as a QB and the team's strategy.
“Unlock the savings at Boost Mobile and save up to$600 a year.”
Shadour Sanders' Debut Performance
3:17 to 8:20
Analyzing Shadour Sanders' first outing as a QB and the team's strategy.
“but what overshadowed that was Shadour Sanders getting his first taste of in action.”
Quarterback Strategy and Chemistry
8:20 to 14:00
Discussing the importance of quarterback-coach communication and chemistry.
“when I wasn't the starter my first couple of years, they would put me in the game.”
Quarterback Dynamics and Player Development
14:23 to 28:00
Discussion on the intricacies of quarterback play and how player injuries impact team dynamics.
“So you don't get to dress how you want to.”
Understanding Quarterback Confidence
28:00 to 29:18
Learn about the importance of rapport between quarterbacks and receivers for success on the field.
“You just got to see everything a little bit more, you know.”
The Challenges of Playing Without Preparation
29:18 to 35:11
Explore the difficulties quarterbacks face when they haven't practiced with their receivers.
“Hey, you know what too, Unc, as a receiver, and Unc, you're going to attest to this with great understanding.”
Eagles vs. Lions Game Recap
38:24 to 42:00
Analyze the recent game between the Eagles and the Lions, focusing on key performances.
“Love bread, baked goods, and pasta, but not the way they make you feel?”
Eagles Defense Dominates and Game Analysis
42:00 to 46:45
Analysis of the Eagles' defensive performance and game strategy against Detroit.
“So he got, if you look at it, Ochoa, he had 107 yards receiving, five carries, five catches.”
Offensive Struggles and Future Concerns
46:45 to 54:06
Discussion about the Eagles' offensive performance and concerns for future matchups.
“To me, that's the thinking and the way Dan Campbell might have been thinking on how he wanted to play this game.”
A.J. Brown's Frustration and Team Dynamics
54:06 to 56:00
Details on A.J. Brown's frustrations and his meeting with the Eagles' owner.
“and if the offense gets any better or any more efficient, especially on the ground and the run, and they have a healthy balance of both, man, it's going to be hell, huh?”
Show all 12 chapters
A.J. Brown's Frustrations in the Eagles' Offense
56:00 to 1:03:24
Explore A.J. Brown's meeting with Jeffrey Lurie and his concerns about his role.
“And knowing Dan Campbell, to get them ready for the elements and what you're going to have to – I mean, what it's going to be like on Sunday, we're going to practice outside Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.”
A.J. Brown's Frustrations in the Eagles' Offense
1:05:21 to 1:05:49
Explore A.J. Brown's meeting with Jeffrey Lurie and his concerns about his role.
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Transcript
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2:53For full offer details, visit BoostMobile.com. Hello, it's your favorite sports thunk here. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button to join the fastest growing community on YouTube. Remember, nightcap doesn't happen without you. So please subscribe or you're going to make Ocho cry.
3:11Ocho, the Ravens beat the Browns by the score of 23-16. but what overshadowed that was Shadour Sanders getting his first taste of in action. Dylan Gabriel got concussed in the third quarter and went out of the ball game, excuse me, and did not return. Shadour came in. Shadour's stats was 4 of 16, 47 yards, zero touchdown and interception. He had a couple opportunities late in the ball game. He had a couple of drops. He had a couple of drops. look and listening to I found it on social media for Kevin Stefanski to say the first time that Shadour Sanders had taken a snap with the starters with the ones was in this game is malpractice at no point in time and this is what I said Ocho so at no point in time so you don't think Dylan Gabriel could possibly get hurt he can't possibly bring a knee bring a shoulder get concussion there's no possible way anything could possibly go wrong that you want to get you doing like one reps with the ones two reps with the ones i ain't saying split it 50 50 i understand that but even when john was taking the majority of the reps john if we did 10 reps in a period the backup would take two just in case so for shador sanders the here we are in week 11 The man got drafted in May And at no point in time had he taken One snap with the ones It's very very disappointing You know hold on hold on hold on Not only is it disappointing Right and a lot of people say hey listen You and Unc you were screaming for Shador to start you wanted me to get in there And look at his stat line Look at what he did well obviously I'm confused and I'm trying to understand This ain't Madden You don't just take out one quarterback and put another quarterback in and expect success to happen, especially when you haven't had any reps with the ones.
5:11When it comes to the play calling, when it comes to the play calling, what play calls are you going to be able to call for a quarterback that hasn't had any reps with the ones? You don't know what he does well, what he doesn't, you don't know what he does well. You don't know what he's not going to be good at because there's no chemistry. There's no chemistry. So you're just out there calling and plays all willy-nilly, not knowing how the offense can run. And I know as a quarterback, you're supposed to be prepared. You're supposed to know if the opportunity presents itself, you got to be able to go in there and do what you can do.
5:46But, like, come on. No reps at all? Let me ask you a question. No reps at all? No. But let me ask you this.
5:56Normally on Saturday or Sunday morning, Dylan Gabriel will tell Stefanski, these are the plays that I really like. Every quarterback does that. Every quarterback does that, huh? Every quarterback does that. So do you think he had any idea of the plays that Shadour likes? No. Or he's just going to call plays just, oh, here's my play sheet and I'm calling? Because you build your play sheet around the quarterback and what he likes, what he's good at, what you know he's good at. You don't even know what Shadour is good at. Now, it's going to be very interesting. Look at this play. Now, you got three guys blocking one guy, and somebody about to come in and hit Shadour dead in his mouth.
6:37Now, what should have happened was a redirect. You slide the line to the left, and now guess what? You got the guard or the center to hit that guy that's looping around, and now you're protected. But, hey, the O-line is going to have to make calls until Shadour gets – Catch up. Get in the groove of the thing. he's not there right now to say no no no no no i want you to go here hey redirect redirect let's liz this let's liz this let's lucy this now we're going to slide the line to the left now we're going to take a you only got one guy rushing on the right why the hell we got three guys and now we got a guy for to come in here and try to put his helmet up under shador's chin so it's going to be very interesting this week uh i'm sure gaber is going to be in protocol we'll see if he if Shadour is going to get the start uh against I think they play the Raiders I think they play the Raiders we'll see if he gets to start against the Raiders and he'll get an opportunity to take all the reps all the ones and Stefanski will have an idea what he likes and will call plays accordingly that's how it works and honestly it's very important too uh for for Stefanski to understand and know what his quarterback likes to do because it allows you to call plays, and put them in advantageous situations for you.
7:58It just makes your job easier. It just makes your job easier as a head coach and for a quarterback to know what he likes so the offense is able to run smooth. I mean, it's really easy. It's not about Dylan Gabriel. It's not about Shadour Sanders. It's about putting our players in positions for them to succeed and give us our best chances to win. That's all. I give you a prime example, Ojo. when I wasn't the starter my first couple of years, they would put me in the game. But when I came in the game, guess what? I know we're going to run. Because they say, okay, when you come in the game, this is what we're running.
8:37This is going to be your opportunity to make a play. They got a small cornerback. We're going to throw the fade. I don't care what the coverage is. We're going to throw the fade. We're expecting you to go up over the top of it. Okay, in this situation, we're going to bump this coverage. If they bump with it, that means it's man coverage. You're going to be one-on-one inside leverage, linebacker with inside leverage. So we're going to call a play where you're breaking away. So I knew. Now, if I'm just all of a sudden going to game and they're not calling plays for me, I just got – well, now, quarterbacks always, you go listen to Brady, you go listen to Manny, go listen to Breeze and any of these quarterbacks.
9:15They say, me and the offensive coordinator, We went over it Saturday night or day of the game. This is what I really like. Normally it's Saturday night, and you come and say, okay, so what do you like? So Brady and Manny would say, I got these – well, Manny called his own thing, so let's do Brady, Breeze, and all these other guys. It's like, this is what I like. This is what I like in this 31-3, 33-5, 35-7. This is what I really, really like. Now, this is what I like, A, in this area of the field. This is what I like in the red zone. this is what I like out of this personnel because I feel out of this personnel we're more likely to get this coverage which gives us a benefit or that gives us an advantage so all that's going through the mind but for a quarterback Ocho not to get no reps I'm talking about none he said it see and I was like what I mean listen to Mary Kay Cabot and listen to people that they're saying Shadou is not getting any reps as a matter of fact Bailey it'll be very interesting And somebody should have asked him, well, let me ask you this, Coach Stefanski.
10:19Did Bailey Zappi get any reps with the ones? Because it makes no sense. If Bailey Zappi is getting reps with the ones, then why would you push your door in that situation? Why not have Bailey Zappi as two? Yeah, and it's funny. And you know what? To piggyback off what you said about quarterbacks, you know, having those conversations with coaches before games start on plays that they're comfortable with and some of the things that they want to do, for one, especially early in the game, to get them in the rhythm. and you mentioned Brady. And hell, I was there for that. I've seen it with my own eyes.
10:49I've seen it the night before in the hotel on Saturdays when the meeting ends. Bill O 'Brien, the receiver, and the Tom Brady sit there. They go over the plays that he likes. And Bill O 'Brien will run off plays. He'll call off plays. And Brady, you know what? I don't like that one. You know what? Let's save that one for later on in the game in a certain situation when we may need it. And he had those first 15 plays that he really, really likes and he's comfortable with. And that's what it would go with. Yeah, that's what it should be. Copenhagen spit-free pouches are packed full of American-grown tobacco.
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12:08OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep. which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on osa.com. This information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company. I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything. It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people. If we got clear facts, maybe we can calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News, reporting for America. Wait, this is a soda?
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14:35So you don't get to dress how you want to. We said this is an 80 things party. Don't you bring your ass in here without a wig, without an afro, and some platform shoes on those choices and bell bottoms. You know what I'm saying? This is not your party. So you call plays accordingly because if the quarterback is telling you what he likes in certain situations, he's going to feel the most comfortable when you call that. He's going to be the most assured of himself and the offense if you call that. I'm glad, like I said, hopefully Dylan Gabriel's okay. First of all, let's start with that because I'm not big and hoping somebody gets hurt and somebody else gets an opportunity.
15:13Sometimes that happens. Sometimes players go down and then other players get their opportunity. That's how Brady got his opportunity. Someone went down and he made the most of it. I got my opportunity, someone went down, and I made the most of it. But, you know, in order for Shadour to get in, Dylan Gabriel had to get dinged. Hopefully he's okay. Maybe he comes back. Maybe he comes back this week and we're back to square one, Ocho. Dylan Gabriel's in there taking all the ones and we're moving forward. We don't know. We'll see how this thing plays out if he's still in protocol. But I think now that you're in a situation where there's a great chance, I believe there's a greater than 50 % chance that you're going to start.
15:58because I don't care what anybody says. You prepare differently as a starter than you do a backup. Not only do you prepare differently from the starter to the backup, but the play calling changes significantly. Absolutely. The play calling completely changes. Completely different game plan depending on who you have a quarterback based on their skill sets and what they're able to do. Mm-hmm. I totally agree. Things are a lot faster now in the NFL than they are in college. Guys move faster. You got to throw guys open. I like that guy. He threw the fan in the tight end 44 on the crosser on the dagger route.
16:36I thought he'd throw that with timing. He hit Ju with one, and Ju made a great move. He had another one. A couple of guys dropped one. 84 had one in his hand, but give Awuzie credit. He's pulled it out. Great play. Great play by Awuzie. That was a great play. That was a great play. But when you have a young player in there, having been in situations where you're the veteran guy and you have a young guy and you have to make plays for him. You understand that he's nervous. I don't care what anybody says. He's nervous. I've been here before. I've been doing this all my life. You ain't been doing it on this level all your life.
17:07You ain't did it like this with those guys all your life. So hopefully he gets an opportunity, another opportunity. He'll be better prepared than he was, and we'll get a different result. Also in this game, Miles Gary. Hey, man. Hey. Hey, he the real deal, huh? He the real deal. He is. He got seven games to go, so he needs eight sacks to break the record. He might very well get that. He might very – And don't they got the Ravens again? Hey, he might – They got the Ravens. Hold on. I think they got Pittsburgh. They got y 'all again. Yeah, he definitely might because he had three today, right? Did he have three or four?
17:52Yeah.
17:57they got they're at the Raiders they get the 49ers Titans at home they're at the Bears they get the Bills at home they get the Steelers at home they get the Bengals on the road now the best matchup out of everybody you said will be probably will be a matchup to watch will be Myles Garrett and Deion Dawkins
18:20Myles Garrett and Deion Dawkins now everybody else on there and there's no disrespect to them but you got your hands full. Oh, everybody got their hands full. You got your hands full. And obviously... What's it called? Big Trent got his hands full too? Oh, yeah. Oh, shoot. Big Trent got his hands full. That's right. Yeah, yeah. Everybody got their hands full. Colton Miller, everybody. Because he kicking everybody in. He's on one of those... He's on one of those... He's on one of those... On one of those stairs right now. It doesn't matter who's in front of him. He don't even see you. He doesn't even see you.
18:51I'm being honest. Having been around, having played against great pass rushers, the Reggie Whites, the Bruce Smith, the Derrick Thomas. I played against Leslie O 'Neal. Go look him up if you don't know. The Greg Townsend, all those guys. The Michael Strahan's, when they get into a rhythm. Yeah, it ain't nothing you can do. Nothing you can do. It's just like a guy shooting a basket like Jordan. They say Jordan getting a zone or Steph getting a zone. Does it matter if you put your hand? You know, they put the hand in his face like you can't see. He ain't even looking at you. He looking at the rim.
19:23and he's throwing a pebble in the ocean. That's how big it looks to him. There's a chance, Ocho. It happened to happen. I don't think it's happened since 92 when Cortez Kennedy won the defensive player of the year on a losing team. I think they were 2-14 and Ted's won the defensive player of the year. That might happen because right now, Miles Garrett's the best defensive player. He's easily. Without question. I mean, he is so, man, And he is so, for a man his size, to move like he does, the way he can bend, the way he can change direction, the way he can post with one arm, the way he can, hey, he faking, I mean, he lining up and he, ah, ah, he in and out, he wax on, wax off, he ripping, he bending the edge, he can huff you.
20:14He got a nice, hey. He has, when it comes to rushing the quarterback, He has no weakness because he can turn power to speed, speed to power. He just – he can snatch, pull you. He's just amazing. He's – and I just hate – I just hate that he ain't going to win. Not in Cleveland. Listen, he might not win as a team collectively, but he's going to win individually. He's going to win individually every time. And sometimes in a winning effort defensively, sometimes in a losing effort. But what you get from Myles Garrett is you get consistency. You get consistency from him, and he's going to be an impact.
20:56Sometimes that impact results in wins. Sometimes it doesn't. But he's a force to be reckoned with week in and week out. And the thing is, Ocho, but when we talk about great defenders, when it comes to D linemen, what did all of them do? Win? Yeah. What did Reggie do? Yeah. What did Strahan do? What did LT do? What did Aaron Donald do? J.J. Watt? You've got to win. Yeah, but you know what? I'm not saying you've got to win a championship. I'm not saying you've got to win that, but Ocho. It's unfair. You're going 3-14. You're going 5-12. But it's unfair. It's unfair. You have to think about the situation those players were in.
21:43You have to think about the team that they were on collectively, you know, as a group. So they won because of the team that they were a part of. There was an effort on both sides of the ball, you know, especially for Aaron Donald. Michael Strahan, look at the defense back then. Look at the offense with Eli Manning, some of the things they were doing, you know, during that time. Hell, Reggie White. But you got to realize, Ojo. With Reggie White, man. You got to think about what the Giants were before they got Eli. You got to realize what they, before they got Kerry Collins and ended up going to the Super Bowl, they weren't going to, they weren't going to no playoffs in the nineties.
22:26They weren't like that. Hey, all it takes is a quarterback. Stray was doing his thing. Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But, and, and, and guess what? Reggie got tired of losing. Reggie said, I'm going to green Bay. Yeah, the money. They, they had money, but they had more money on at, at other places. I want to win. Time. Say, man, Atlanta, y 'all trying to get me used to losing. I want to win. Got it. So at what point in time does Miles Garrett say, man, here I am. I'm getting 23, 24 sacks. And I ain't even sniffing the playoffs. I'm not even close to the playoffs. That my season is already over.
23:06Think about it, Ocho. We ate 10 games into the season, and Cleveland is already known. They're eliminated from the playoffs. Yeah, I mean, that's crazy. That's crazy. You six games, six weeks into the season, Ocho. we got Ocho we got 11 12 weeks to go alright hey man let me see what let me see what I'm gonna do and the funny thing about it is there were teams that tried to get him before the trade deadline there were teams that tried to get him and listen I don't know the details I'm not an insider I don't have the sources but you know the Browns weren't gonna do that I don't think there's anything a team could offer them where they would've done it because I think a team that no no no not now no I don't think I don't think I'd be personally I don't think he wanted to leave him because he's on a great pace right now.
23:51I think that's something they might revisit. Because I'm going to make you tell me like Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. You're going to have to tell me no. You know what I'm saying? You got to tell me no, Ocho. You got to tell me no. I ain't going to lie to you. You got to tell me no. Because, man, he's a hell of a player. The real deal. And he got an opportunity. he's going to go down as one of the all-time great. But I want to see him. I want to see him on the all-time. I want to see him on a big stage. I want to see him in an AFC or NFC championship game. I want to see him in the Super Bowl. I want everybody to see Myles Garrett.
24:30Not just – I want him to see just how special he is. And not have to see it watching highlights. Because you got to think about it. You know, as great as he is, I mean, how many people are tuning in to see the Cleveland Browns play outside of Brown fans. Unless it's the team that they're playing, unless the team that they're playing that week is playing the Browns. That's about the only time. Yep. Going back to Shadour, Wyatt Taylor said after the game, this is what he said, Wyatt Taylor said on Shadour, I think I've heard his cadence like two or three times. I think going out at halftime, we all got on the line.
25:06He said his cadence, and we kind of, okay, got through it. Again, a lot of learning, but he played his heart out. We just fell short. Gabriel got practice snaps as a backup with Flacco at QB1. Stefanski wasn't even getting Shador, his backup, at least minimal reps during the course of the week. I get Flacco to a certain extent, Ocho, because Flacco's a veteran. Gabriel isn't a veteran, and you want to try to get him as many reps as you possibly can. But at some point in time, I'm not saying you split it 50-50. I'm not even saying you split it 60-40. But you can't find a way to get that man two reps in a period, Joe.
25:45So the offensive line, the running backs, and everybody can hear his cadence and understand that. Because that's very important. Some people have a slow cadence. Some people have a fast cadence. And you need to be able to hear it. So I was surprised that Stefanski said that, man, since the man got drafted. You know they had the draft in May, Joe. I know how long ago it was. And today is Sunday. Is that the 16th? November 16th. June, July, August, September, October, November. But you have to understand. The first time that man got first team repped was today in an actual game against a division opponent.
26:25But you have to understand that that wasn't their call. That is not the player that they wanted. They had their mind made up. They had their mind set on who they wanted to be, you know, quarterback number one. obviously it was joe flacco when things didn't work out with joe flacco they were going to dylan gabriel as their as their as their quarterback yeah they did they they just didn't see shador sanders in their plans you know now that that's their business that's that's the way they felt now things have come to a head where dylan gabriel went out with a concussion hoping i'm hoping he's okay and he can get back to the regularly scheduled program for the browns being that he is the one that they wanted to be their starter so i'm hoping he's okay and he's able to come back uh once he their concussion protocol.
27:05But now, if Dylan Gabriel is out, now Shador has a whole week. He has a whole week to get all those things down, to get that rhythm, to get that timing, get that chemistry with the receivers, with the linemen, so they can hear that cadence and understand the sound and how he's going to call those plays in the huddle and obviously at the line of scrimmage. Let's take a listen to what Shador had to say after the game, Mocho. But it's different when it's different body types going out there, a different way how people get out of routes. Like what I seen on the pick initially was I see his hips turn.
Read the full transcript
27:45So I'm like, OK, we're going to be able to to get out there. But at the same time, I like playing quarterback is extremely hard. So it's like I like knowing every detail about my receivers. I like knowing small things with the good at what they're not good at. it's like so many details that that helps me play confident with those guys and I know we at the bottom right now this performance everything it'll never be like this but I'm dedicated to being able to get those opportunities with those guys to have a relationship you know I got a relationship with all the hungry dogs though We let clockwork out there, but you just got to see.
28:35You just got to see everything a little bit more, you know. Like them come out, rouse them, do all different types of stuff, so. You want to go to the next sound before we respond to this? Let's take a listen to what Myles Garrett had to say about Shador after the game. Don't be discouraged from one drive or two drives. It's a good football team over there. So just trying to keep him to keep his confidence high and keep on chasing that standard, which he set. And we're going to continue to support him. He spoke after the game and he wanted to pin it on himself and his performance. But we're not going to allow him to do that.
29:13No, it's a team game. So we're all on this to go. He addressed the entire team in the locker room. Thank you.
29:22Hey, you know what too, Unc, as a receiver, and Unc, you're going to attest to this with great understanding. And those of you in the chat that are listening, I don't think they understand how important it is to have a cadence with your receivers, to understand and to work with them throughout the week so to understand their movements, their tendencies, and when they're going to break, when they're going to get out, and being able to throw the ball. I think people think you just you get out there and you just throw the ball to your receivers and it's just that easy. It's just that easy. But there's a timing and cadence to it and rhythm to it.
29:57That's why you always hear players talk about throwing with your quarterback in, you know, in the offseason and throwing with him in practice and getting those reps. So everything flows smooth in the middle of a game when everything is sped up times 10. and you can tell and you know when a player's about to break based on his mannerism, based on his body language and I think people watching the game of football think it's just so easy you know, you get the ball and you just throw it and the guy has to get open but that's not the way it works when you have other players Everything is easy that you can't do Everything is easy that you can't do Those that can do those that can't talk about others that can do Yeah You're right You're right.
30:43Let me ask you a question, Ocho. You played with Tom Brady. Do you think Tom Brady would allow some receiver that he didn't throw to during the course of the week to be out there on the field with him on Sunday? No, because he wouldn't trust you. Thank you. Neither would Peyton Manning. Neither would John Elway. Because if there's a chance that you're going to get your ass in the game, you best believe John Elway was going to see you run a dig, an end cut, an over route, a slant, a comeback, a stop, a smoke, a shake. he's going to see you do it in practice. And guess what? When it comes time to one-on-one, guess what?
31:18He's going to say, hey, no, don't worry. Hey, T, let him get up there. I want to see what he can do. I've been with you for seven years. I've been with you for eight years. But he's going to want to see what those guys can do because if I got to go out there and battle with you on Sunday, I need to know I can trust you. I need to see some mannerisms. Hey, you tell him, bro, let me know when you're going to break out. Bro, I got to know when you're going to break out. You just can't do that. make sure you get your depth. Hey, I can't listen. This is 7-on-7. I can't be, pardon the language, chat, I can't be back here jacking his ball off, which means he can't be eight.
31:54All that patting, you get your head knocked off. Oh, no. You get your head knocked off. No, no, he can't do that. And you hear me saying, guys, what y 'all think this is, 7-on-7? No, that ball's got to come out. One, two, three, ball's out. One, two, three, four, five, ball's out. so to ask your door to get in a game in which he has not taken any snap from the center he hasn't thrown to judy he hasn't thrown the hand he hasn't thrown to any of those guys and expect him to work a miracle we're not making excuses but look as time progresses he get more and more time we'll be able to fairly grade him on his performance but i think it's unfair to give him a grade if i were to give him a grade, I would say incomplete.
32:35Incomplete. Hey, listen. We ask him to take a test. Without studying. Without studying. That's unfair. Listen, if you're going to give me an assignment, right? At least give me the curriculum. Give me the curriculum that I can properly study so I can pass the goddamn test. That's all. Make it fair. Make it fair for me. just don't throw me don't throw me out there blind I give you chat I don't know how many of you guys went to college I don't know how many I'm sure a lot of you guys went to high school imagine showing up your first day of class and the teacher gave you a test and you don't know what the hell it's on no no no no you know the class the class you in the history class you in a science class you in a chemistry class and the first day you show up and you go oh whoa where did you do that at
33:34damn hell i you didn't even give me the syllabus you didn't even tell me what we're gonna be do what we're gonna be going over this quarter this semester i'm finna act like we in church now go ahead yeah it's tough chat and look y 'all know me i i'm not big on excuses you either get it done or you don't but having played this game having been a guy that's been in the situation that's door that didn't get a whole lot of reps but and when you don't get a whole lot of reps it's hard to have confidence going into a game i can just imagine playing the quarterback position and having to go in a game when you taking no reps i've never thrown to jerry judy the only thing i've thrown to jerry judy is pat and go in warming up i've never thrown to these guys the center has never had snapped me the ball because normally when i'm throwing pat and go ocho they throwing the ball underhand.
34:28The ball boy's throwing me the ball underhand. A center ain't doing that. The centers are down there, the linemen are down there working on some other stuff. So until we come as a team to stretch, then they go do, you know, we break up and they go do their thing until we come together and do 9-0-7 or whatever we're going to do. Or they got the individual peers and then we have our individual peers and then we come together. But I just think the thing is that he just needs some time he needs to work with that offense they need to get as used to his cadence Stefanski needs to call plays according to what his skill set and what he likes what he feels comfortable in um I definitely think we'll see a better should do it next week if he if he's just if he starts I guarantee you we'll see a better should do it um yeah than than what we saw it's all about preparation it's all about preparation you know it's one thing when opportunity presents itself if you're prepared it looks different you're a lot more confident but if you don't know what to prepare for or don't have the tools at your disposal to be able to prepare for said test this is what you get exactly Ocho you ain't winning war without the proper weapons so cannons and musket nah that ain't how they doing it now they're doing it with drones so hey they they they they dropping bunker busters from B-52s a bunker a bunker buster it's a it's a whole yeah they got those bombs now Ocho you drop because they people you know they dug in the side of the cave they drop them and they hey mess up the whole bunker huh and then explode um Copenhagen spit Spit Free packs American-grown tobacco into pouches.
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37:07OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don't sleep on osa.com. This information is provided by Lily, a medicine company. I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything. It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people. If we got clear facts, Maybe we can calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News, reporting for America. What if your soda actually did something for you?
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39:29The Eagles defeat the Lions by the score of 16-9. Ocho, me personally, I think that was a horrible pass interference call. That is a play on because, you know, it could have went either way, but I don't think – I personally don't think it was a P.I. Oh, yes, she is. I don't. But that's being said, the Eagles win this ball game. They moved to 8-2 with a 16-9 victory, and the Lions dropped to 6-4.
40:00Ocho, we're going to talk about this a little later. but there was a meeting between A.J. Brown and the owner, Jeffrey Lurie. We'll talk about that. So chatting didn't happen because, you know, y 'all are going to get mad at Ochoa and I for talking about it. Y 'all are going to say it didn't happen, although everybody has reported that it did happen. You keep telling Ochoa and I there's nothing going on, but normally players and owners don't have closed-door meetings. That's normal. I've never had a closed-door. I did once I was retired, you know what I'm saying. But anyway, Ochoa, the Eagles did what they needed to do.
40:31Jalen Hurst was 14 of 28, 135 yards, no touchdowns, no interceptions. Again, he didn't turn the ball over. He had one fumble, but they ended up recovering it. Saquon was 26 of 83. Nothing to write home about. 40 rush attempts, 148 yards. The wind was gusting, I think, probably excess of 30, 40 miles an hour, which made it difficult. And knowing what you know, having played in Cincinnati, Baltimore, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, where the wind swirls and it gets hard, you know points are going to be at a premium. and we know how Dan Campbell is. He's very aggressive. But I thought the night didn't call for aggressiveness because points were going to be at a premium and it wasn't going to be a ball game, Ocho, where you're going to get 31, 28, 35, 34, something like that.
41:13So points were going to be at a premium. But what did you like about what you saw from them? I mean, listen, they were resilient. They were resilient. Obviously, they weren't carried by the offense. The offense did just enough. A.J. Brown had somewhat of a down night. 11 targets. He had 11 targets. He caught seven of those. He had 49 yards. I mean, Saquon, you know, had 26 carries for 83 yards, but the defense dominated, huh? The defense dominated. The fact that it's as explosive as the Detroit Lions offense is, I mean, they were held in check. They were held in check. Goff was, what, 14 for 37.
41:48He had one TD. He had an interception. They were able to hold Gibbs. Sonic. Is Gibbs Sonic? Yeah. Listen, he was able to hold him 12-carried for 39 yards. Yeah, yeah. Wait, hold on. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but he got it in the past. So he got, if you look at it, Ochoa, he had 107 yards receiving, five carries, five catches. So he got his yards from scrimmage. He just didn't get them the way we conventionally used to see it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But that goddamn Eagles defense zone, boy, them boys played some goddamn balls, especially that front four. Jordan Davis had him a night to night. How many balls did they bat down on Joe?
42:29Five, six, seven? Maybe, if I'm not mistaken, maybe about seven, eight. Maybe about seven and eight. Because Jordan Davis, I think I saw him get three. Carter got two. 97 got one. I mean, every time I turn around, and it's so frustrating, Ocho. Because you know, you're like, oh, yeah, I got it. Damn. Matter of fact, listen, all it is is just being able to disengage. If you can't get to the quarterback, use your eyes. Use your eyes. hold the offensive player out and play the passing lane. Play the passing lane with your hands and, you know, watch the quarterback's eyes. And it worked wonderfully.
43:05Jalen Phillips had a sack tonight. And listen, in the back end, they played very well as well. They played really, really good. They did. I mean, honestly, it was somewhat of a boring game. It was a boring game. The elements played a factor in that. But I enjoyed it. And the fact that, you know, offensively the Eagles didn't look to par as we like them to look, but they still got the most important stat. They got the W. That's what they do. I mean, they don't, you know, there have been times they need to score 35 and they score 35. Sometimes they need to score 10, they score 10. They do what is necessary to win.
43:47And they don't put themselves in harm's way. I just felt that Campbell was rolling the dice a little bit too early, too soon. There are times that, you know, punt the ball away and pin them down. Make them go. Don't give them a short field. Goff turned the ball over early. And I think they got three points out of that. But Detroit, they better get home field. Yeah. Because anybody they could potentially play, unless it's the Rams, they're going to probably be outside. And the conditions, you know what the conditions are. in January, they're going to probably be like this, maybe even worse. So you don't know because when you look at the schedule, let's see, Philly is the one seed, probably only going to get one team out of that division.
44:32Green Bay, Chicago, those are two teams that could possibly get in. Guess what, Ocho? The weather is bad there. So Philly is bad. The Rams, Seattle. Seattle, you know, Seattle is terrible. Although they lost today, we'll talk about them. But I just thought, look, it's tough. I could just imagine because Jalen has to answer questions, not about Detroit, but about AJ. And it's starting to bother me. Like, man, I want to focus on Detroit. Ask me something about Detroit. And it's hard because they're making a conscious effort. They're putting plays in the game plan to make me – I ain't going through my progression.
45:16Throw it to AJ. Throw it to AJ. And that got Goff into trouble because Goff had a time, had to tie it in on a shallow cross, but he's looking for Alvin Roth. What happens, Ochoa, a lot of times when the tight end blocks, they're taught unless the guy that's covering him, man, unless he's green-dogging, he's taught, okay, start looking for crosses. Start looking. And so what happened is that he blocked. The linebacker is not green-dogging, which means he's not blessing. So he starts looking and dropping the coverage. He comes on the shallow cross, but ball. Yeah. But he's looking at Amin Ra because he'd already made his mind up where he's going with the football.
45:55And it's hard to undo that. And you see Montgomery is jumping up and down there in the middle of the field like. I'm open. The tight end was Scott Creek. You see golf playing with gloves on. But I think it just got frustrating because he has some opportunities. And then they bat the ball right back down his face like we were playing beach volleyball. And it's tough. It was frustrating to watch. But, look, the Eagles are going to look. The Eagles, they're not going to win style points. And winning, this is not gymnastics. This is not swimming. You know, platform diving or anything like that where it's subjective.
46:34No, this is about wins and losses. And how do we get the win is unimportant. The most important thing is that we got the win. Not how we got it. It is that we got it. and that's what the Eagles do Ocho the Eagles win it ain't pretty it's not pretty and the one thing also when I'm thinking about a game like this I'm thinking how Dan Campbell's thinking in a sense you know what I'm going to take some chances I'm going to go for it on four down to see if I can get those points in premium due to the elements and force the Eagles to play a different style of game force them to play a different style of game and put the pressure on them to be able to put points up and keep up with us.
47:15To me, that's the thinking and the way Dan Campbell might have been thinking on how he wanted to play this game. Let's get up early on him and force him to be able to throw the ball. Let's make him uncomfortable. Let's put them in a position where they want to do something they don't want to do. And that's the only thing I can think. In the defense, they step up to the challenge. They step up to the challenge and play it extremely well. If you got Laporta, I give you that. because he's a guy that can win against your linebackers, against your safeties. So I'll give you that. But given what you're up against, considering the elements that probably 17 points would win you this ball game, the last thing you want to do is give away field position and let them get easy points.
48:00If they drive the field and they get a field goal, if they drive the field and they get a touchdown, I can live with that. But I can't put them on a short field and let them get one field goal and now, excuse me, let them get one first down and now they're in field goal range. Or even if they don't score, they're going to have me backed up. And so now I'm constantly trying to swim up. I feel like I'm in spawning season. I feel like I'm swimming upstream and there's a lake full of bears. Every day, they get fooled because they hibernate. They got to eat all they can because they're about to go into hibernation.
48:34And that's what happened to Detroit is that they gave the Eagles short fields and even when they didn't score points, Ocho, it kept them backed up. And they just needed to start one. I mean, they did a great job of stopping the tush push and got a short field, ended up getting a field goal out of it. But like I said, it would have been very interesting to see if they don't call that P.I. call, can they go down and get a touchdown? Put it like this, I'm not putting no money that means something to me that they're going to go down and get a touchdown. You might put some money on it that means something to you that says, okay, yeah, Detroit's going to go down and get a touchdown.
49:15You know what's funny is I don't think it would have made a difference. I don't think it would have made a difference. Whether it was a PR or not, I don't think they would have been able to get that touchdown as well as the damn Eagles play defense all night long, all four quarters. You know, it looked like what it did. They were able to get nine points. Nine points. We talk about a Rams. We talk about the Rams. We talk about a Lions team that's able to score. in bulk. They're number two in scoring average of about almost 32 points a game. Exactly. So for them to come out today, and I'm not going to blame the elements.
49:47I'm not going to blame the weather at all. Because both teams had to play. Exactly. And we've seen them play in cold weather before and still be able to put up points at will. So I think the Eagles, they played one hell of a game on all three levels. On all three levels. They were phenomenal. They did. And the thing is, Ocho, but you know about dome teams. There's a reason why dome teams don't go to the Super Bowl unless they're in their own building. Because when you have to go outside and you have to normally, late January, the weather's bad. You go to Philly or you go to Cincinnati, you go to Pittsburgh, you go to Baltimore, you go to Kansas City.
50:27If you're a dome weather team, it's really not conducive. Normally, you look at the Rams. They got to the Super Bowl how? They had home field. When they didn't have home field, it's tough. I mean, the only warm weather team that I can remember going on the road to get to the Super Bowl is Tampa. It's when they went on the road to Philly and they beat Philly in Philly. And it took a Herculean effort from the defense because the offense really didn't do anything. Rondé Barber ended up getting like a 90-yard pick six, something like that. But it's very tough. So Detroit's got their work cut out for them if they want to get to where they want to be.
51:01And it's not going to be easy because I don't know if you notice, Chicago's playing really, really well. That quarterback is getting more and more comfortable. Hold on. And Green Bay has found a way to win. I was like, I mean, sometimes I don't know Jordan Love. You need to realize he had to go to the tent because all of a sudden he's like, I'm Derrick Henry. Oh, no, you're not. Until the tent, he went and ended up going inside until he figured out, like, nah, bro, you can't take shots on your shoulder like that. If you look at the Eagles, Ocho, they've beaten the Lions, the Packers, the Vikings, the Bucs, the Rams, and the Chiefs.
51:41With the exception of the Vikings, everybody else theoretically is still in playoff contentions. I mean, maybe the Vikings still are, but the Chiefs, although they're ninth in the division, all you need to take is seventh, there's still an outside chance that they could win the division. but the Rams, they're clearly in sole possession because they beat Seattle today. So to beat the Lions, to beat the Packers, to beat the Bucs, to beat the Rams, to beat the Chiefs, that's a good football team. Now, you're just not going to just go in there and willy-nilly just go roll over them. So if you think that's what's going to happen, that ain't happening.
52:23They're very well coached, and I know a lot of people don't like their offense and Kevin Petula, blah, blah, blah. They're not going to beat themselves. You're going to have to beat him. Jerry Goff, worst completion percentage in a single game in his career, Ocho. 37.8 % tonight. The ninth lowest mark by a quarterback who has at least 35 attempts since 2005. The Eagles defense did it again. So basically, 148, 148, and 124. so they had about 270 yards hey 270 you know it's funny we we have all this all this discourse and all this talk about aj brown and in the offense and and not living up to the standards and and evolving as an offense as opposed to what they did last year and saquon really hasn't had a day yet uh what we're used to seeing i think at some point they will hit they stride at some point i think things are going to open up that often is is going to change especially i think it's going to start clicking when it matters most.
53:30Not only are they getting wins right now, they're getting the wins ugly. But I think at some point, maybe that momentum or they catch fire at the right time when it matters most. Now, I mean, obviously they're winning games ugly. The defense is carrying the load and probably the main or the majority reason why they're winning. But I think once the offense catches up to where the defense is, and maybe just halfway, maybe just halfway, I think they're going to be a force to reckon with, especially once they get to the goddamn playoffs. And there's a good chance if they keep playing like this defensively and if the offense gets any better or any more efficient, especially on the ground and the run, and they have a healthy balance of both, man, it's going to be hell, huh?
54:15It's going to be hell. But we know at some point in time, one team offense is going to have their way with that defense. And then the offense is going to have to bail them out. We've seen it happen no matter what. But everybody has a game in which whatever your strong suit is, you struggle, and the other side of the ball needs to bail you out. And it's normally the side that has struggled. So the offense has really struggled, but the defense has been exemplary. So what happens when an offense, opposing team offense, has their way with that defense? And I'm saying somehow they get 28, get 31 points.
54:51Now we're going to need Jalen Hurts, and we're going to need that offense to go match that and go get 32, get 33, get 34 points. So we know that game is coming. We don't know who it's going to be. Maybe it's the Cowboys because the Cowboys, that's a division rival game. You throw everything out of the window. Don't look how bad the Cowboys are. I know the Cowboys have played like some stir fry this year. But against a division opponent, you throw everything out of the window. But that was a big win for the Eagles. 8-2 on the season. dropped the Lions to 6-4 with a score of 16-9. Jordan Davis, Ocho, entered the night with three batted balls.
55:30He finished with a tie for the league lead with six. So he had three. Carter probably had two. 97, I think that's Hunt. I'm not mistaken.
55:43Had one, but they won. They played well. they handled the elements, the conditions, better than Detroit did because, you know, how do I practice that, Ocho? I normally practice in the dome. So they probably went outside. I'm sure they went outside. Because it's cold in Detroit right now. It's cold in Detroit. Yeah. And knowing Dan Campbell, to get them ready for the elements and what you're going to have to – I mean, what it's going to be like on Sunday, we're going to practice outside Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. Yep. Before the game, reports came out from ESPN's Sal Palantonio, the guy that knows all things Eagles.
56:20He's been covering the Eagles for probably 40 years. A.J. Brown met with Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie during practice last week to hash out Brown's public frustration over his role in Philly's offense. During the 10-minute meeting, Brown promised Lurie that he would stop complaining on social media. Brown told Lurie that he just wants to be a part of an offense and is frustrated. All right, Eagles fan. me and Ocho didn't know what we was talking about we just making stuff up now how many times have you ever heard of Jeffrey Lurie he's on this team for two decades met with a player about something that he was posting on social media met with a player about his role in the offense his role in the defense hey chat this is only for Eagle friends I don't want anybody else to chime in because Ocho and I we just doing this for clicks It's mainly you, Unk, because Ocho, Ocho, cool, we like Ocho, but it's mainly you.
57:16So Eagles fans, I want y 'all to tell me the time that your owner has met with a previous player over his role in the offense or the defense. I'm going to give you a couple of minutes to chime in.
57:32Now, like I said, Ocho, I understood from the beginning. My only thing was, I said, AJ, is just that when you do this publicly, and you're winning, and you say your goal is to win, and you're winning, the fans are not going to look at it like, man, I want to be involved because I want to take this offense to the next level. They're going to look at it as you're complaining and being selfish because you're not getting stats. That's how it's going to be perceived. So my thing was just keep it behind closed doors. he probably kept it behind closed door Ocho as long as he could do Ocho you can only stuff so much stuff in the closet until you open the door and all that ish come rolling out and the funny thing about it too is you know what I think I think he's had those conversations behind closed doors I think he's had those conversations with Jalen I think he's had those conversations with Coach Sirianni he might have because this has been going on since last year it's been going on since last year so I think the conversations have already been had and he hasn't been heard because nothing has changed.
58:35Nothing has changed, but what A.J. Brown has to understand, this offense is run a certain way. It's always run a certain way. And the way that they do it, Jalen Hurst does not put the ball in harm's way. He's not going to take the chances like Aaron Rodgers. He's not going to take the chances like a Brett Favre or a gunslinging quarterback. I'm going to make the right reads. I'm going to do the right things with the ball, and I'm not going to put my team in harm's way and have us behind the eight ball when it comes to playing football. And that's the nature of the business in the way they do things.
59:08And I think the Eagles like the kind of quarterback that they do have. It's not pretty. It's not aesthetically pleasing. He's not going to go out there and throw for no 400, 500 yards. That's not the offense. It doesn't ask for him to do that. But when time comes, when time comes, and you put him in situations where he has to beat you with his arm, we've seen him do it. Hell, a la last year in the Super Bowl. They weren't allowing Saquon to get diddly. Diddly squat. What did he do? He used his arm and he won the game. This year, things don't look like it should. They're not able to run the ball.
59:42Hell, they're not even throwing the ball well. They get it in this first. But what are they doing? They're being carried by the defense. That's why I think at some point, the roles are going to reverse. There's going to be a game just like you said. With a defense, they're going to get had. They're going to be a team that's going to be able to take advantage of them. And the funny thing about it, you think about the teams that have the opportunity or have a chance to put up multiple points and have an offensive scoring high-volume output, you think about the Chiefs. They beat the Chiefs. Hell, you think about the Lions tonight.
1:00:12They score 27, 28, almost 30 a game. Not yet. It's going to be a team you least expected. It's going to be a team you least expected, and they're going to have their goddamn weight, and it's going to come time where Jalen Hurts is going to have to step up, and he's going to beat you with your arm, or Saquon is going to do what he do on the ground like he did last year that he hasn't been able to do yet this year? This offense is built to play with a lead because of the way they play is run and pass. A lot of teams pass to run. So, Ocho, you're afraid of us throwing the football, so now you play coverage, we can run into a light box.
1:00:50So, the way the Eagles are built, they're built to run and then we're going to pass. We're going to dictate, we're not going to let you dictate when we pass. But, they normally pass and it's third and short. What gets the Eagles in trouble is when it's third and long and they're having to pass the football. See, when it's third and short, Ocho, you don't know. I can run it with Saquon or I can use Hurts' legs or I can do something quick, screen to Jalen, screen to Devontae, quick something, quick pop to Goddard. They get into trouble when you start, they start third and 10, third and 12. That's when they get into trouble.
1:01:28and so they do a great job of knowing that's where we're vulnerable at staying out of situations like that but give them credit they won tonight play the elements better that's what you have to do when you're at home oh joe we're in our environment we're eagles we play and we practice outside hey and one problem i do have about watching the game tonight the fact that i can steal i don't play for the eagles i don't play for the eagles but i watch a lot of football and I've watched the Eagles all season long. Hell, I've watched every goddamn team. But the fact that I can tell you, based on A.J. Brown's alignment, I can tell you exactly where Rowdy's running, that's not good.
1:02:06That's not good because if I know it and I'm not watching film, I'm just watching the games each and every Sunday, what do you think those that are playing across from him are doing? He had 11 targets. I think he had maybe 11 targets or something like that. But it's the same stuff over and over and over. If he lines up two yards outside the number, if he's by himself, he's running the hitch. if he's at the top or the slant if it's two by two and Smeddy's on the side with him or the Titans on the side with him he's off the ball he's running the slant it's like the same thing if he's inside he's running the quick out I mean it's just or the stick right it's just the same there's really no creativity and then putting him in and they like to put him on the left hand side don't you they like to throw him the goal ball on the left hand side If you notice that on Joe, a lot of his goal balls are on the left-hand side.
1:02:57I mean, so I understand his frustrations. Not only is he not putting up the numbers he'd like to, but you know what's actually coming based on his alignment and where he is. Route recognition, formation recognition, and the tendencies are the same. Copenhagen's Spit Free packs American-grown tobacco into pouches. made from when your elbow's deep in an engine block. They're masked up, torching deep cuts into stubborn pipes. Her helmet's on, riding deep into backcountry. When there's no time or space to spit, grab Copenhagen's spit-free pouches. Find them in stores today. Not all varieties available in all geographies.
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From the publisher
Shannon Sharpe and Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson break down the biggest NFL storylines of the week! The guys react to Shedeur Sanders’ NFL debut against the Ravengs. Unc and Ocho also dive deep into the A.J. Brown drama and debate whether the Eagles should consider trading him. Plus, they analyze the Jets’ ongoing struggles with Justin Fields and what it means for New York’s future.
0:00 - Browns vs Ravens
30:16 - Lions vs Eagles
54:06 - Jets vs Patriots
(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)
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