Best of Unc getting Mad Part 1: Technical DIFFICULTIES, Ocho NOT picking sides, Micah Parsons CALLS OUT UNC

12:35Joe Johnson:That's what I do. I just explained to you I love I love these boys Let me ask you a question. I just let me ask you a question

12:43Shannon Sharpe:How the hell I get you on ESPN? They ask you to pick the Cowboys in the bill and you say I like both of them That's not the problem. You know what the problem is the problem is You can't handle the truth. It's not about you like both of them. Do you understand what your job is?

13:01Joe Johnson:Do you understand your job? My job. Let me tell you what my job is. I know my job and I know my purpose. My purpose is to enjoy the sweet science and to appreciate but let me finish. You're not a fan. You're an analyst. Can I finish? Can I finish? Let me finish. Yes. My job is to appreciate the sweet science as someone who does it part time is a hobby and has submerged himself in it if I tell you I like two fighters or I like four I like five don't ask me who I like between two of them that I enjoy watching is that a problem that shouldn't be a problem

13:42Shannon Sharpe:yes you are an analyst you can like two things and have to pick one you can like ice cream you can like hamburgers and pick one Why can't I eat the hamburger and the ice cream? Why can't I have the hamburger and the ice cream? Chat, chat, you understand why now? Chat, do you understand why now? Why now what? You understand, chat. What is the chat saying? What? The chat on? The chat says they understand why Shanna won't bring you on first tape. Because you have to pick one or the other. You know what?

14:17Joe Johnson:I don't want to go on first tape no more. I don't want to go. I ain't changing for nobody. I ain't even follow the NFL rules and I ain't changing that. Yes, you did. Yes, you did. Yes, you did. Yes, you did. I ain't going. Let me ask your question. I like blood and I like boots.

14:32Shannon Sharpe:If you didn't follow NFL rules, why did you wear home jersey away? Why did you wear away jerseys at home? If you didn't follow the rules.

14:39Joe Johnson:Because they wouldn't give me. Stop playing. You know what I'm talking about. Exactly. You know what I'm talking about. I ain't following the rules. They took all my little change.

14:48Shannon Sharpe:Let me ask your question. If you ain't follow the rules, why you ain't lined up offside? Oh, I ain't never did that. Why did you get a running start like Canada? You know, in Canada, you can get the most. Ocho, Ocho, here's the thing, Ocho.

15:04Shannon Sharpe:Ocho, Ocho, listen, I'm just telling you what this chant is. I don't care about the chant. Ocho, Ocho, but you should care. This is how we make. Lord, have mercy.

15:14Joe Johnson:Hey, you think I've been one way, right? Listen to me. I've been one way always. I've always been one way. You want to know why we are, where we are, where we at? Because I'm remaining my true authentic self. And you trying to get me to change and I'm never going to change. That's why this is going to work. I'm never changing. So stop asking me. I like both and I like boots and it's going to stay like that. I don't care what the fuck. You bought a sofa you didn't have to assemble. A suit someone measured just for you. And now you're taking a guy's trip that actually matters. You've upgraded a few things in life.

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17:30Here's to the calloused hands of freedom. Copenhagen, saluting American grit, proven since 1822. Warning, this product is not a safe alternative to cigarettes. The Declaration, which is full of these beautifully rendered sentences and paragraphs about Enlightenment ideals, does also have this darker history to it. Why is it important for the darker part of the Declaration of Independence in the American Revolution, why is it important that Americans know about it? Well, if we don't understand the full context in which our nation was founded, we won't understand the full context in which our nation now finds itself.

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18:50Shannon Sharpe:Arizona wide receiver. How do you say that name? Ketaroa McMillan? Ocho. Yeah. He says he doesn't watch football and doesn't like watching game film. I don't like watching game film either. I don't ever watch it by myself because we go over film as a receiver group. Ocho, is this a big deal or no?

19:17Joe Johnson:You know, I don't think it's a big deal because... Oh, Lord, have mercy, Ocho. You asked me a question, right?

19:23Shannon Sharpe:Yeah.

19:24Joe Johnson:Okay, you asked me, is it a big deal? I don't think it's a big deal. What does he do once you turn the film on? Him, specifically, from an individual standpoint.

19:32Shannon Sharpe:So watching film is not a big deal?

19:35Joe Johnson:answer what I just said. When you turn the film on and it's time for him to play, what does he do on the field regardless of him not watching film? Does he show up and play? Is he productive at what he does?

19:46Shannon Sharpe:Okay. I'm asking you. I know a guy had that same thing, Jamarcus Russell. How did that work out for him? I don't know. I don't know about Jamarcus Russell. You do know about Jamarcus Russell. He was the first number one overall pick. We not talk about Jamarcus Russell. We talk about him. This Ocho. So this man ain't got to watch no film. You ain't got to watch film. You asked me, is it a big deal? I said, no, it's not a big deal. If you produce, when you get your ass on the field. How you going to get mad at my goddamn answer? Because you're saying stuff, Ocho. You're saying watching film for a receiver is not a big deal.

20:23Joe Johnson:He says he doesn't watch it by himself, but he watches it collectively as a group.

20:28Shannon Sharpe:You know, in order to be great, you got to watch it on your own. so just watch it so just watch it as a group at the team thing that's good enough I just want to make sure I have a clarification listen that's him I know what I did that's why we're asking you you were the pro bowler you're saying it's not a big deal

20:50Joe Johnson:can I hold on let me ask you something real quick so watching the film by yourself right stay with me real quick you know what you're looking at you're looking at DB looking at defense bench yes i'm watching the technique outside do they do they do they do the freeze technique

21:06Shannon Sharpe:do they press bail what do they do outside inside yes i'm watching all that yes all that good stuff

21:11Joe Johnson:now that's that's now me you on the same page right let's say he doesn't watch as an individual but he watches as a group he watches it as a group once he gets to the next level and he gets out and does what he's supposed to do without watching it individually is it still a bad thing he's still productive it's still a bad thing i don't believe i mean personally oh you don't think he can get it

21:34Shannon Sharpe:done because he doesn't watch film by himself no no no no there have been guys that watch film and can't get it done i just in order i'm not saying that but what i'm saying but i'm saying is the intricacies of what you're watching that guy does right certain down and distance because everybody so because i've got to watch a guy that he might play such and such different than what he plays me. I need to know it down the distance. Area of the field. How that guy's going to play because he's going to play, hey, is he going to play the sticks? Is he press bail? Is he cluing? I need to know all that.

22:09Shannon Sharpe:If I'm not watching tape, it's just hard for me to believe. Now, he could be that immensely talented that you say, you know what? I'm just going to show up. But I don't know. I haven't heard any receivers that's worth anything that says, nah, you know, I'm good. But I, because you got to do it on your own.

22:29Joe Johnson:Yeah, you have to. And when I think about it now, I'm only speaking because when he said, he says, he didn't say he didn't watch it at all. He said he watched it as a group. Now, that's one thing. Now, him not doing it individually. I mean, that's on him. But he was very productive in what he did. And when you turn on the film.

22:46Shannon Sharpe:He said, I don't ever need to watch it by myself. This is what he said. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't like watching film either. I don't ever need to watch film by myself because we go over it, film, as a receiver group. Group, collectively, yeah, see?

23:03Joe Johnson:Yeah, that's different. My reason for watching film individually is I had no choice. Despite the entertainment, the jokes, and the laughs, and the celebrations, I was a student of the game. I studied film just like the quarterback. You wanted to be good, Ocho.

23:22Shannon Sharpe:Right. You wanted to be great. Oh, great. Okay. And you realize that's what it took in order to be great. You realize that just your God-given ability wasn't going to be enough. Now, that might have gotten you to that point. Yes, sir. But what's going to take me to the next level? Next level. Every other receiver is just as talented as I. Yes, sir. You're right. You're right. And so that's what... But Ojo, a better point. Everything that's thought doesn't need to be said out loud. Oh, okay. Some things you just keep to yourself. He'll learn it, though. I want you to tell me what you think them 32 NFL teams thinking.

23:55Shannon Sharpe:Mm-hmm. You're right. That's what I don't get, Ocho. I don't get because you know how teams feel. Remember what they put. If it wasn't a big deal, why did they put that clause in Kyler Murray's contract? Kyler Murray's contract. Oh, about gaming? Yeah. Why would you ever say this publicly? when you're about to get, Ocho, somebody's about to get, you're going on a job interview and you tell the people, I don't really like coming on time. Why would you ever tell the people that's interviewing you for a job that? Get the job first. First, yeah. And then let them figure out that you don't like to bring your ass to work on time.

24:38Shannon Sharpe:I'm not going to tell you.

24:40Joe Johnson:Yeah, you're right. But one thing by Young Bull, you know, they interviewed him for a reason. They're talking to him for a reason. If you watch him, if you watch him on film, you watch him on tape, oh, he's going to get drafted somewhere. Now, the issues and some of the things he already said, oh, they're going to fix that. They didn't have a problem. Because once you get drafted wherever you go, they're going to teach you and let you know in order to be great, in order to make this 53-man roster, you're going to have to be watching film. You're going to have to. Because it's a whole different ballgame of one percenters once you do make it.

25:15Joe Johnson:the things you were able to get away with in college you won't be able to get away with it no at the next level you won't be able to and one of the edges that you need is up here upstairs

25:25Shannon Sharpe:yes up here because you need to know what the db is thinking about doing uh-huh before he does yeah so oh bro i know this down the distance i done seen you too many times i know what's coming play this technique yeah i already know what you're gonna do this is what you always do yeah And there are articles being circulated now that now predict him to fall in the draft because of this interview and 15 seconds of comments. Ocho, Ocho, you three weeks, the draft is a little less than a month away. Right. Ocho, why would you ever say this?

25:58Joe Johnson:Yeah, listen, I don't know. It's something I would have kept to myself. Yes! Obviously, I wouldn't say anything like that. But I'm also someone that loves watching film. I love it. I just love it. I love watching DBs. I love watching the safety and seeing what they're doing based on down and distance. So I had no choice. I talk too much shit not to watch film. I got to know what's coming before it comes. I got to. That's the edge I needed. I wasn't physically imposing. So my one edge was I got to be able to beat you up here before I beat you anywhere else.

26:36Shannon Sharpe:You're absolutely right.

26:37Joe Johnson:I got to be able to beat you up here. and I'm not even viewed as one of those one of those type of players that was a student of the game I'm viewed as just entertainment and fun man you understand the work I had to put it throughout the week to be able to pull off the stuff I was pulling off the guys are too good man stop playing

26:54Shannon Sharpe:the guys are too good don't you way too good the guys are too because you got and I want to tell people everybody at some point in time was an all-state all-conference all-american all this all that what's going to set you apart now guarantee now i'm just saying no show just because you were all this all that yeah that doesn't mean you're going to be great in the nfl just because you study film doesn't mean you're going to be great in the nfl but i needed every you need every advantage that you possibly can get every because this is a game of inches in it you being open like you was open in college that ish ain't gonna happen uh-uh unless it unless it Unless it's a busted coverage, it ain't happening.

27:36Shannon Sharpe:Yes. Yes. So this notion that, you know what, hey, I'm so gifted. And you know what? A lot of the DBs that you probably went against, they might not be playing on Sunday. On Sunday, yeah. But the guys you're about to go against, all of them going to play on Sunday. Every last one of them. Yeah. I'm just a firm believer, Ocho, especially. And you know how this. Let me ask you a question. Yeah. Those 32 general managers, those head coaches, I want you to tell the people at home what you think they're thinking. Forget what me and you think is a big deal. Do you think general managers and coaches, do you think they think it's a big deal?

28:16Joe Johnson:Yeah, you know they think it's a big deal because they want you to do everything right. They want you to do everything right. All the things necessary as far as preparation and being ready, not just for game day, but just for practice. How well do you know your opponent? There's only one way to do that. that's through film study but again you know what happened I think he's going to be a gem wherever he fall to it's going to be a gem and if anything if he does fall in the draft or maybe something like this if he does fall in the draft there might be a team I hope he falls us because we can use him but you know at the end of the day it's something I wouldn't have said it's something you wouldn't have said you live and you learn you're living you learn and he'll become a little bit more media savvy with the way he conducts

29:07Shannon Sharpe:himself when it comes to answering questions yeah i i don't get why you would ever put something that was gonna in every stretch of the imagination that's like a defensive offensive lineman saying i don't like lifting weights yeah how fool them these kids just like say anything and what has happened is that in today's society oh people want to be themselves and then get paid on somebody else's job how that work Ocho you hear people all the time why I can't be me because that's not your job you not paying you when you work for your own self me if I want to show up late Ocho yeah I could I own the company But how is that going to look?

29:54Shannon Sharpe:Right. You have to set the example. Mm-hmm. I have a level of expectation. Be on time. I don't have a whole lot of rules. Right. Just be on time. That's really the only rule that I have.

30:07Joe Johnson:Ooh, I got a great one too, Un. Let me think about this now. If I'm not mistaken, after Patrick Mahomes' second year, was it his second year he said he didn't watch film? No. And it was still great? He said he didn't understand what he was looking at. What he was looking at. Okay. Yeah. No, he... Wait, that's the same goddamn thing. You watching it, but don't understand what the hell you watching, but you're still going out there cutting the food.

30:32Shannon Sharpe:It wasn't until, like, because he was... The first year he didn't start. Right. It wasn't until he got with somebody that understood and says, okay, look at this. Yeah. This is going to be your keys. Because a lot of times... I mean, I went to an HBCU. I ain't no... Hey, we ain't watch no film. I ain't going to lie. Right. Watch no film. because in black college, that's why if you get a corner out of black college, that's why they used to go to black college and get them because what could they play? Man coverage. It wasn't no cover two. It wasn't none of that stuff. It was man. Lock up. Oh, man.

31:07Shannon Sharpe:Lock up, yeah. Yes. So me, I was beating man coverage. So Ocho, they go out there and run a zone. Hell, I'm booking it. No, no, son. No, no, son. Stop. Oh, man. He ain't got me. That's funny. Then I started, now, all of a sudden, Ocho, I'm like, oh, man, I like this. Oh, this is cheating. You give me the answer to the test. Right. I know you're going to run a couple of coverages that you haven't shown me. Mm-hmm. But for the most part, you're going to be true to who you are. Always. I mean, every once in a while, I was just watching a deer on IG with eating a rabbit. A deer? Yeah. Deers don't even eat rabbits.

31:56Shannon Sharpe:See, every once in a while, he show you something you ain't seen before. So I'm saying every once in a while, Lord Choke, you're going to show me a coverage I ain't seen before. That might have been AI you was watching, too. No, that wasn't AI. Hey, hey, animal get hungry enough just like you. You get hungry enough, you eat whatever. I eat whatever when I'm not hungry, but go ahead. We already know you eat whatever.

32:25Shannon Sharpe:but i i don't i i just say chat it's just me i just don't understand why you would ever say that publicly everything that you think people can think a thought is not a crime a thought is not anything bad it's the act it's the once you say it why would you say that publicly and you're less than a month away from the draft so what do you think the people that's drafting you and looking to put millions of dollars in your pocket.

32:55Shannon Sharpe:Nah, man. I can't. That's just like, hey, there are some people that's naturally gifted that didn't have to study for tests and they were good at it. But guess what? Them numbers of them words on the page ain't moving.

33:19when them guys try to put their hand around your neck and choke your ass out.

33:26Shannon Sharpe:Now, you know he's going to get tested. First of all, he's a first-round pick. We got to test you regardless. Oh, yeah. Because I got to see what's all the hype about. I need to see why you a first-round pick. I need to see. Absolutely. I got to see. Whatever you come in with your resume, Wait, Heisman, Belitnikoff, Thorpe, Nagurski, Outland. I don't know what you want. But if you got one of them awards, if you a first-round pick, you a high-draft pick, let me see what they talk about, man. Oh, we're going to put you to the test, Ochoa. You know that. Every time.

34:00Joe Johnson:We're going to put you to the test. Especially when everybody come together. Is it minicamp? No, OTAs.

34:06Shannon Sharpe:OTAs, yeah.

34:06Joe Johnson:Yeah, OTAs.

34:07Shannon Sharpe:Because you know they're going to have the draft, so probably like the first week in May. Yeah, you got rookie minicamp. It might be just all rookies. It might just be a rookie.

34:15Joe Johnson:Yeah, it's always rookie camp first.

34:16Shannon Sharpe:You know, like rookie and first-year players, not the high draft pick, but the guys that were on the practice squad because, you know, there are a couple of guys that were on the practice squad, that they get a whole lot of playing time. Those would be the guys that are required to be in. All the draft picks, the undrafted free agents that they brought in, they're going to bring some undrafted players in to take a look at them and see what they got going on and see if they could potentially be camp bodies or could possibly make a squad. Right.

34:44Shannon Sharpe:But I don't know why he said that, bro. Yeah. Damn. But, bro, I wish you the best. I can't do nothing but wish you the best. If that's your MO and it's gotten you that far, hey.

34:59Joe Johnson:Listen, it's gotten you this far, it's going to change, though. He'll understand that. They'll explain that to him. and I don't think it were hurting draft stock because if they want him bad enough and there's a spot for him based on what they've seen on film during his collegiate career, they'd get him in there and fix the situation. Now, if you come in here, you're not going to do this. This is what you're not going to do when you come here.

35:25Shannon Sharpe:Your best players are your hardest workers. That's when you get a Michael Jordan, you get a Kobe, you get a LeBron, Yes, sir. You get a Brady. You get a Peyton Manning. You get an Adrian Peterson. You get a Ray Lewis. That's what you get. Yeah. You get a Jamar Chase. That's what you get. Mm-hmm. Guys that are immensely talented.

35:47Joe Johnson:Yeah.

35:47Shannon Sharpe:Work extremely hard. Hard. Go the extra mile to be great because it's just not good enough. I don't want to be good. I want to be great.

35:55Joe Johnson:Yeah. I'm trying to be transcendent and historically great.

36:00Shannon Sharpe:because when I'm done, I want you to talk about me. When I'm done, I want you to say this guy, you know what this guy reminds me of? He reminds me of Jamar Chase. This guy reminds me of Ray Lewis. This guy reminds me of Lawrence Taylor or Reggie White or Tom Brady. That's what you want. Let me say, some guys say, I played in the NFL five, six, seven years. I played 10 years. Made me a nice salary. Got the boo. I did what I wanted to do. It all depends on the individual. What do you want your legacy to be in a given sport? I mean, some people, just like anything, some people find, hey, being on the job, collecting a check, that's it.

36:44Shannon Sharpe:Hey, I'm going to work in the same position. I don't want to move up because more responsibility come when you move up, Ocho. I like this right here. I come in, put my eight, nine hours in, go home. Yeah. Nah, hell nah. That ain't me.

37:07Shannon Sharpe:Ocho, AJ Brown's cryptic tweet. Head coach Nick Sirianni responded today to his star receiver. Obviously, AJ is very important to this football team. I know he wants to contribute. I know he wants to contribute and do things he's capable of doing. He wants to contribute into these wins. And he's had a couple of games where he hasn't been able to be for a different reason. but I question nothing about his desire to play great football, his desire to be a great teammate, his desire to be here. Ocho, what do you, what do you have to say?

37:40Joe Johnson:I mean, I like it. It's cool. I mean, a coach going in front of the cameras, going in front of the media and saying the things he has to say. He has to say those things. Now, the conversation I think he probably had with AJ might be completely different. Might be completely different because that's the way a coach and a player talk to each other. I'm sure he knows the frustration. A.J. Brown has said this countless times over and over and over again. He said it last year. He said it last year. He said it in the media. I think it was last week or maybe a week before last, before he had the game he had last week.

38:15Joe Johnson:It's constantly the same thing. And I think a lot of people are saying, oh, he's a diva. Oh, he's selfish. No, he's not. He wants to win. When it comes to winning, obviously you want to be a part of that. It's like doing a school project, huh? It's like doing a group project in school and everybody else do the work and you sit on the back end and everybody getting an award and then you're like, well, hell, I ain't even getting the help. I feel like I ain't doing nothing. He just wants to be a part and contribute to the wins that they're having, being able to contribute to the whole thing.

38:51Shannon Sharpe:He contributed. He blocked and doing a great job.

38:58Shannon Sharpe:that's a part of it though Joe I mean sometimes look I understand look we all when we say we want to you know we want to we want to contribute receivers won't they want to win I'm not questioning whether or not a receiver wants to win but they really like to win their way that means 10 catches 100 yards and a touchdown at least that's what they figure contributing blocking is not a necessary blocking is not really a part where they feel they're contributing. They measure their worth in catches and yards and touchdowns, and I get it.

39:26Joe Johnson:I'm glad you said that. They measure their worth. How do you measure the value when it's time to get paid of a good receiver? By his what?

39:36Shannon Sharpe:All that comes into play. Yes, catching, touchdowns, but blocking. Blocking is also a part of that.

39:45Joe Johnson:I have never seen a great blocking receiver get$30 million. Never.

39:49Shannon Sharpe:They weren't back there back then. But Jerry Rice blocked. Come on, man. I'm just saying, Ocho, we've got to stop this. Now, look, I understand that we like these guys. Let's call it what it is. A.J. Brown is upset that he's not – he sees Puka Nakua. He sees all these other receivers putting his numbers. Yeah. Yes. So winning is not the most important thing. His stats are. Of course they are, because that's how they judge us.

40:22Joe Johnson:That's how they value. What's the first thing? When you talk about numbers, that's the first thing we all ain't talk about. How did we talk about top five? What's the first thing we do?

40:33Shannon Sharpe:We bring up the numbers. Let me ask you a question.

40:36Joe Johnson:Talk to me.

40:36Shannon Sharpe:Did you ever hear Hines Ward complain?

40:41Joe Johnson:He didn't have to. They got in the ball. Go ahead. Next.

40:45Shannon Sharpe:He blocked. people thought they changed the rule they got it they got a rule in for hines ward and quambo the guys blocked i ocho i get it because so this notion that he cares more about winning he doesn't he cares about his stats so um you didn't care about your stats is that what you're doing how do you how do you go public and complain about catches when you're winning if you losing he has a valid argument because if you give me the ball we would not be in this situation you're winning you're winning oh cho okay all right you're right all right you're winning okay so let me ask you a question let me ask you let me i give you a prime example let's just say for the sake of argument jayla hurts jayla hurts winning he said man but damn i'm throwing for 112 yards but he see all these other guys throwing for 300 400 yards and he said man, I need to throw the ball more.

41:43Shannon Sharpe:What would you say then?

41:48Wait.

41:49Shannon Sharpe:They measure quarterback by his numbers. So if Jalen Hurst throwing for 112, 130, they winning, and he says, man, I want to throw the ball. I mean, I wish I could throw the ball like Mahomes. I wish I could throw the ball like Josh Allen. I wish I could put the ball in the air like some of these other quarterbacks. What would you say then? Yeah.

42:15Joe Johnson:Stats is everything.

42:17Shannon Sharpe:I just, Aljo, all I'm asking you. No, no, no, no, no.

42:19Joe Johnson:I love how you switch things up. Stats is everything, and you know that. There's a reason why he's fussing. You know that. I know why. I know why. When it comes to this dirty business.

42:32Shannon Sharpe:You're right.

42:33Joe Johnson:You know that. There's a reason why every receiver, every number one, acts a fool when it comes to their numbers and getting catches. Because they base our value on production.

42:46Shannon Sharpe:You know that. Let me ask you a question. Let's just say for the sake of argument. Let's just say he had Puka Nakua's numbers, but they were one and three. That's a hypothetical. That's a hypothetical. You see what you're saying? Let me finish.

43:02Joe Johnson:Let me finish. When you go to the table, he already got paid let me finish he got paid already right yes so you know what they gonna tell him well AJ you know what your production doesn't match the salary you're making so we don't need you to take a pay cut because when it comes to making 30 million a year they don't measure it by wins and losses it's based on the goddamn numbers and your production not no damn blocking oh you block really well

43:36Shannon Sharpe:we gonna pay you 30. Let me ask you this are the Eagles the only team that pay receivers so you don't think he could go anywhere else so if his numbers are not good there what are other teams looking at him they say AJ still

43:48Joe Johnson:I don't know I don't know you're going from you're going from we were talking about one

43:52Shannon Sharpe:scenario we're talking about one scenario I'm saying you're trying to say the only important to him is his stats I thought winning when he came there he said he wanted to be a part of a he already won he won already give me some goddamn numbers He had to go through this shit last year. And guess what? He got paid. He got paid. He got paid. He got paid. I can see if he was on that first contract, he got paid. Oh, so I got paid. Oh, hold on.

44:21Joe Johnson:I got paid. So you know what? I'm good. One catch for seven yards in a four-quarter game is enough for a 30. He had two. That's okay? That's okay? That's okay? I'm just asking you. Is that okay by your standards?

44:35Shannon Sharpe:Is that okay by your Hall of Fame standards? He could have caught 12 for$1.50 and lost. Would that be okay by his standards? Is that okay by your – I'm just asking you. You know what? It's okay. No, no, no. I feel like you go like this. So if he catches 12 for$1.50 and they lose, that's okay. Let me say something. He didn't catch 12 for$1.50 and they lost. He caught two for seven and they won. And they won. So what's he complaining about? I thought the most important thing was winning.

45:04Joe Johnson:Okay, you're right.

45:06Shannon Sharpe:You know what?

45:06Joe Johnson:You're right, it is. You're right.

45:08Shannon Sharpe:So I'm asking, is it the win or his numbers? I mean, you would like to be able to contribute.

45:16Joe Johnson:You would like to.

45:17Shannon Sharpe:I'm just asking, is it winning or the numbers? The numbers and winning. No. Well, he's winning. He's winning. He's winning on you. All right. I remember, hey. Okay. I remember the time. It's so funny.

45:35Joe Johnson:Anytime we talk about receivers, quarterbacks, the first thing we bring up is numbers. The only thing we bring up is numbers. Now all of a sudden catching two goddamn two passes for seven yards is okay because you win it.

45:51Shannon Sharpe:No. Hello. We mentioned Jayla Hurts. We don't mention no numbers. We mentioned winners. Everybody says he should be a top quarterback. No, no, no.

46:00Joe Johnson:When we talk about winners, We talk about individuals. And the only way we talk about those winners and individuals is by mentioning their numbers and why they're winning.

46:10Shannon Sharpe:Okay, which in Jalen Hurst numbers? People say Jalen Hurst should be thought of as a top five quarterback because he's a winner. He doesn't have top five quarterback numbers, but he wins. So now I'm trying to figure out, is it winning or is it numbers?

46:37Shannon Sharpe:I'm just curious, Ocho.

46:39Joe Johnson:Hey, boy, you forgot, boy.

46:42Shannon Sharpe:Hey, boy, you forgot. Ocho, man, you look. I was the number one guy for a while, for a while in Denver. And, yeah, I like to catch. But at the end of the day, if I said I wanted to win, and I've caught most of the time when I had big games, I can honestly say most of the times when I had big games, we won. But there are times that, you know, I didn't have a great game as far as stats-wise that we won. How am I going to go publicly, go public and complain when we're winning? How? That's all I'm saying. Look, I understand his frustration. I do. Yes, I do. Because you get out there and you practice all week long, and they tell you they're going to get you the ball, and then come game time, it don't happen.

47:30Shannon Sharpe:I get it. I've been there. Hey. But it's hard. It's just hard when you're winning to convince people and convince the media that winning is the most important thing because it sounds like your numbers are the most important thing. I'm just saying how it comes up.

47:55Joe Johnson:Hey, I got a question.

47:57Shannon Sharpe:Go ahead.

47:59Joe Johnson:when it comes time for players to get paid what do they base it off of

48:05Shannon Sharpe:you're what i'm in ross a brown whether he's gotten paid or not when it's time for a player

48:11Joe Johnson:to get paid what do they base it off when you go to the table what do they bring up your what

48:17Shannon Sharpe:your stats all right text close let me get something to drink they bring up your stats but what about winning tell me the guy that got paid at top receiver money and they not winning?

48:37Shannon Sharpe:What receiver get making top money? Tell me the receivers that's making top money that didn't make that. That didn't make playoffs. Has Jetta ever made the playoffs? Has CD ever made the playoffs? Hey, has Chase. I'm just asking. you keep saying that. That don't make no,

48:55Joe Johnson:that don't make no sense. they not getting paid because they made the playoffs. Don't do that. If they didn't make the playoffs, they would get paid anyway.

49:04Shannon Sharpe:You name it the three best receivers in the league. What are we talking about? You'd rather have stats than lose than have lesser stats than win. Why are you trying to talk about losing and winning? Because they're winning and he doesn't have the stats. He can have stats and lose like he was losing in Tennessee.

49:23Joe Johnson:You're talking about two totally different things. I said, what do they base it off of when it's time to get paid? I'm just asking you a simple question. Numbers in production.

49:32Shannon Sharpe:That's what they do. Ocho, I'm just asking. So you're putting hypotheticals that had nothing to do with anything. I'm just asking you a question. So how many times, I'll give you a prime example. Here's a guy that put up stats and they didn't win and he didn't, Megatron. How many times do you hear Megatron complain about the ball? who else were they going to throw it to see there you go who else were they going to throw it to they didn't have a choice Stabber didn't have a choice but to throw it to him you see how you flip it off Ocho he didn't win he had crazy stats crazy stats 1964 yards in a 16 game season for what asking why did he leave early ask Barry Sanders why did he retire early all those rush yards all those receiving yards he said man I just got tired of losing yeah you think that's what it was because I can just go about if it's a lie if it's a lie they told it

50:42Joe Johnson:I can tell you why Calvin wanted to go I can tell you that it ain't got to do with no goddamn losing okay well if it's a lie

50:50Shannon Sharpe:he told it

50:56Joe Johnson:hey that was a great conversation

51:03Shannon Sharpe:hey I hope you don't think he gonna go out there and turn it out against old satan ps4 hey you are our ps4 hey listen let me tell you something let me tell you something hey chat chat stay with me real quick hey um what I wouldn't be surprised

51:19Joe Johnson:is obviously you know the player's upset.

51:22Shannon Sharpe:Yes.

51:22Joe Johnson:Oh, they're going to try to get in rock. Inside that building, the first thing he's going to want to do, and I guarantee you, and I bet the house on it, the first play is going to him. I don't know what it's going to be. It could be something quick. I'm doubling him. It's going straight to him.

51:36Shannon Sharpe:I'm doubling him. Hey, you know what you're supposed to do? A guy like that, you double it. You take him away early because then he's going to be like, man, here we go. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

51:47Joe Johnson:You playing the Philadelphia Eagles. Double who? You better drop nine in the box and stop playing.

51:53Shannon Sharpe:You better drop nine in the box and stop playing. We're good. Hey, what we'll do, we'll take P-square. We take P-square. Put him home. Whoever, he ain't catching nothing.

52:06Joe Johnson:Man, listen. Hey, Pat Sertan get up there playing with 11-11 if he want to. He get up there playing with 11 if he want to. He get bench press out the way.

52:17Shannon Sharpe:Don't do that. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, them hands, hey. Karate expert.

52:25Joe Johnson:And listen, hey, hey, P2 got lucky tonight. PSU got lucky tonight. For what? He didn't have a quarterback.

52:33Shannon Sharpe:He lucky. You had a quarterback last year. You had a quarterback last year. And we beat y 'all, didn't we? But what did Chase do? We beat y 'all, didn't we? Oh, see, oh, I slowed down. We beat y 'all, didn't we? Chad, did you hear what he just said? We beat y 'all, didn't we? Now, Chad, did you hear what he just said? Did we not beat y 'all? Chad, did you hear what he just said? Now, it's about winning. It's not about stats. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You talking about stats? You talking about the Chupa Crown winner? You talking about, hey, hold on. You talking about the Chupa Crown winner? Huh? You talking about him?

53:08Shannon Sharpe:You just told me, Chad, what'd he just tell me?

53:11Joe Johnson:Hold on. We were talking about a specific situation.

53:15Shannon Sharpe:Yes. I say PS Square shutting down. You said we won the game. Don't nobody, man, stop. Go back and look at Chase's numbers in that game. Satan didn't give up 200 yards last year. Look up Higgins' numbers in that game. Not when he, oh, he won against Moss. Who won the game? Y 'all won. But I thought, but you said winning doesn't matter. It's about stats.

53:44Joe Johnson:I thought you said the point was to win. So we won. Stats shouldn't matter, right? Ain't that what you said? Chad, this man just told me. Make up your mind.

54:00Shannon Sharpe:Hey, you know what? Come up out of this. I'm getting hot now. Uh-huh.

54:09Joe Johnson:Hey, I got my AC off. I'm hot.

54:13Shannon Sharpe:Man, I got my AC on, and it's still hot. I'm going to have to have me another road made.

54:27Shannon Sharpe:Got so tight on my shoulders, I can barely turn around. Damn.

54:36Shannon Sharpe:Ocho. What up? You want one of these t-shirts? I'll get you a Bronco t-shirt. I'm good. See, we should have bet. We should have bet. The loser would have had to wear the other team's gear.

54:50Joe Johnson:Oh, no, I can't do that. That's disrespectful. That's disrespectful for all the years and hard work and the blood, sweat, and tears and going to war with my teammates, even putting on another team jersey like that. No, I can't do that. Quiet confidence. It's not what you see. It's what you feel. A suit tailored just for you. A perfectly timed guy's trip. Choosing On Plus nicotine pouches over rough corners and edges. Because some things may look better, but the other things simply feel better. On Plus nicotine pouches with Nico Silk Mesh. The softest pouch on the planet. Not all varieties available in all geographies.

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58:41Shannon Sharpe:Michael Parsons went on Funny Marco's podcast and had some interesting comments, Ocho. Ocho, you know we want to make sure everyone has the full context. Yes. So here is the full two-minute clip. So we don't want to have no confusion. That's not what he said. Here is the full two-minute clip of what Michael Parsons said on Funny Marco's podcast. Take a listen, Chad. I gotta tell you, fuck Skip Bayless, fuck all them. Uh-huh. Like, I don't give a fuck. That's them because that's part of talking, it's communication.

59:17Joe Johnson:Yeah, no, I just like, they wanna rage bait me, rage me. But they won't say that to my face. I wouldn't. I'll talk shit behind you back to me. These Twitter finger ass motherfuckers. I would be the same thing. Like, fuck them. I don't give a fuck. I'll tell you how it is, you suck. You suck, your show don't work no more. Like, what are we talking about here? Just open, open thoughts. Yeah. That's why this is called open thoughts, because you just have an open thought of. Like, like, like, motherfuckers be trying to like, tell you how to play the game. Come play my position, Skip, because I can do what you do.

59:51Mm-hmm. Shit, I do it better sometimes. Yeah, I say yeah. Yeah, so like, what are you, what are we talking about here? Is Shannon Sharp on the good side? Shea Shea, he live on both sides. He know how to play the fine line between as a player and as a show. He play that like he don't really show up when it matters, but he's a good player. He knows how to... But he knows how to... Sometimes he edge on that. He be letting them ESPN writers get to them a little bit. I can tell. So do you see yourself at the retirement being a sports analyst and talking, you know, being on there? It honestly just depends on, like, if they let me be me.

1:00:35Like, I'm not here to instigate no other player or talk bad about another player because they had a bad game or whatever, the organization. If they want me to be anti-whatever fan base, I'm good, bro. I'm not no fucking puppet. A lot of these dudes is puppets for national TV. If you want to be a puppet, be a puppet, but that's not me. I'm not selling my soul for a check. I'm paid. I'm good. forever forever that's why I'm gonna be your friend

1:01:08Joe Johnson:you want to go first I like that I don't know what show it was I don't know if our shows are numbered but I did talk about I wish players were a little bit more honest and would open up about how they truly feel start telling the truth on how they really feel everyone is always PC this is the first person that I've seen come along and actually voices opinion on how he felt about punnets and analysts your thoughts it was fine I mean he said what he said about skip I'm not here

1:01:43Shannon Sharpe:to to to defend or protect or whatever he said about skip I was cool until he brought my name up I was an advocate go back and look when he was coming out and see what I said about this young man he said he knows how to play you know what I do this is what I do Michael because what I believe and I've said this before chat once a person has done something whether or not he plays bad in a game I don't take away from what he's already done. So, Michael, me saying Michael is a phenomenal player. He's a first-team All-Pro. He's a perennial defensive player of the year candidate, but he did not play well in this game.

1:02:32Shannon Sharpe:What's wrong with what I said? So, here's some stats. Michael Parsons with the Cowboys, Ocho. He had 52 and a half sacks, 21, 22, 23, 24. This year he played in Green Bay. He became only the second player in the NFL. history to notch 12 plus sacks in his first four seasons behind the only great legendary Reggie White. Yeah. Rest his soul. In four playoff games with Michael Parsons played with the Cowboys. He has eight solo tackles, 10 assisted tackles, one sack, zero interceptions, zero forced fumbles, zero fumble recoveries, zero touchdowns, three quarterback hits, three tackle for losses. Oh, Joe, what am I supposed to do?

1:03:19Shannon Sharpe:Please tell me what I'm supposed to do. Michael Parsons is a phenomenal player. But in order for the Cowboys to be better, he needs to be better. What's wrong with that?

1:03:30Joe Johnson:So he needs to be better in those specific games once they reach the playoffs. That's what I said. Okay, okay, okay.

1:03:35Shannon Sharpe:How am I playing both sides? I'm being honest. He's a phenomenal player. But he didn't play well today. that's why Green Bay put 48 on you that's why those teams did what they did to your defense because you didn't play like we've seen you play in the regular season what is wrong with that oh ESPN writers Chad do y 'all really believe honestly y 'all see me at a lot of different locations y 'all seen me at Fox for seven years y 'all saw me at ESPN for two do y 'all really believe they be telling me what to say considering what I be saying. Do you really honestly believe? No.

1:04:18Joe Johnson:That would mean you would have a ghostwriter, huh? And you can tell by the way you talk and the way you explain yourself and you go in depth about the game in general. That's not coming from anyone else except you and your expertise based on what you see because you don't watch the goddamn sound when you're watching football anyway.

1:04:33Shannon Sharpe:I don't.

1:04:34Joe Johnson:So that's all you.

1:04:35Shannon Sharpe:He also said, you know, he don't want to, you know, it ain't about a dislike in a fan base. My only thing is the Cowboys. I say they have delusional fans. Because every year, think about it. When Jerry purchased this team in 1989, within the first seven years, he had gone to four NFC Championship, three Super Bowls, and won them all. Since that time. So he's on this team for 37 years. In the last 30 years, how many NFC Championship games have they gone to, Ocho? How many Super Bowl appearances? So the delusion is that the fans keep saying And every single year, this is their year. This is their year.

1:05:13Shannon Sharpe:This is their year. This is their year. There's a very, very fine line between confidence and delusion. That in and of itself.

1:05:25Joe Johnson:And listen, one thing they will do. Cowboys fans, they will fight for their team. They will fight for their owner. They will fight for the players that are on that team, which is why I get so much pushback. I don't mean to change the subject on George Pickens. Understanding what the Cowboys need to compete and not being so heavy loaded on the front side on offense, but obviously he's of extreme value and knowing what you need defensively to help so you can compete so you can get back to the winning ways of the old Cowboys, but you have no defense. And that's no disrespect to the players that are there right now, but it is what it is.

1:05:59Joe Johnson:I mean, it is what it is. Even with the trades that you made last year, getting Kenny Clark, getting Keon Mitchell, you still need more. You still need more. You need a centerpiece. You need impact players. For one, you got people loading up the front to be able to stop the run. You still need somebody on the edge. On the back end, you still need somebody on the back end. That can be an intricate part of your foundation, you know, in the secondary. You don't have that right now. I mean, it's... But that's what, Ocho, that's what we're supposed to do.

1:06:31Shannon Sharpe:We're supposed to look at a game because you and I play at an extremely high level. We're supposed to look. and what a player has already done. And I've said this before. When I talked about Tom Brady, I'm not trying to take any of those Super Bowls, any of those All-Pros, any of those MVP. But today, he didn't play well. Miles Garrett is the best defensive player in the NFL. Today, he didn't play well. Whether you say it's Chase or JSN or Puka Nakula, they're the best receivers in football. Today wasn't their day. So I'm just trying to figure out what are we supposed to do? Are we supposed to cheerlead for y 'all?

1:07:07Shannon Sharpe:Are we supposed to trumpet y 'all calls no matter what? So no matter how bad you play, Micah, I'm supposed to get on TV and say, you know what, Micah, have a hell of a game. Even though you did not, and we're talking about it in the playoffs, because you mentioned it, well, he didn't play well this game. You didn't. So what am I supposed to do? The fans see it?

1:07:28Joe Johnson:Right. The fans see it. Right. I mean, listen, the players are going to have to understand. They're going to have to understand. Obviously, this era of players, because of social media, everything is magnified, especially when it comes from us, those that are doing the talking, having social media here as well. Then it makes the voices for those that have platforms. It makes the voices and the things that they say that much louder. So it gets to the players, even if they want to hear it. But they have to understand that those that do jobs like yourself, like myself, who's gotten better at being critical of players when they don't play well, is they have to be able to take constructive criticism.

1:08:04Joe Johnson:It's never saying that you... Because they look at it as hate. Yeah, but it's never saying that you're a bad player. We know you're great. No! And listen, the funny thing about it, the only ones that get talked about are the ones that are great because we hold them to a certain expectation on what they've already done in the past and we don't play based on what we're used to seeing. It gets talked about.

1:08:24Shannon Sharpe:Right.

1:08:24Joe Johnson:But it's nothing personal. It's just based on your performance that day in that game. That's all.

1:08:31Shannon Sharpe:and we're judging you off because you set the bar had you not done what you've done in your first four years no other player other than Reggie White has had at least 12 sacks in a season for four consecutive years to start their career you and Reggie rest his soul are the only ones to do that so you set the bar pretty high so come playoff times this is where legends are made this is how if Tom Brady had had all these stats and not done what he done in the postseason, are we looking at him the same? No. If Patrick Mahomes had not done what he done, look at the guys that's done it. We judge them on the playoffs.

1:09:15Shannon Sharpe:That's how you make your name. That's how you become iconic. That's how you become legendary. Yes, Michael did what he did in the regular season, but it was the postseason. Kobe it was the postseason LeBron, Steph the great players what do you do when it absolutely matters the most?

1:09:38Joe Johnson:That's what you

1:09:39Shannon Sharpe:judged against Micah

1:09:41Joe Johnson:I have a question too when it comes in general because he's so great because he has that star on his helmet because everybody is watching him being that he's the best player defensively do you think as a player They kind of get frustrated a little bit and say why is the focal point only on me and I'm playing a team game But then you focus on well. I didn't do this one hell the other ten didn't do anything as well but That is what happens when you are as great as you are you have to be the difference maker Even if everybody else is not playing well, you got to be the one that pop out on film because you that boy

1:10:18Shannon Sharpe:How many of them how much of that money he gonna split with his teammates? how much money he's going to split with that teammates that Green Bay gave him?

1:10:24Joe Johnson:Boy, that's a good one. It's a team game now.

1:10:26Shannon Sharpe:Remember, you said it's a team game. That's a good one right there, boy. But he got paid as an individual.

1:10:30Joe Johnson:That's a good one right there, boy. That's a good one. The thing is, Ocho, is that in the most important game, come playoffs,

1:10:40Shannon Sharpe:I gave you four playoff games. He has one sack in four playoff games. Is that good? It's not. Yeah. That's Micah Parsons. He's one of the preeminent defensive players in all of football. We're basing it. We're just looking at your resume. If you did this, Micah, had you not done what you done, if you were a guy that just had your first six season, you had 25 sacks. I don't hold you in there. I probably not even mentioning you, bro. But because you have 50 plus in four seasons, now we have to have a conversation. why isn't the Micah that we saw in the regular season why isn't he showing up in the postseason?

1:11:25Shannon Sharpe:That's it bro. I ain't got no, y 'all know me but I got to be honest though Micah and you're not the only one. Go back and look at some of the things I said about Peyton Manning. Go back and look at some of the things I said about Tom Brady. And guess what? Every time I see Peyton, guess what? But, hey, come up to the box. Every time I saw Tom, had a great conversation with Tom, talked a little bit about football, but mainly we talked about what he's doing now. How can he get better? X, Y, and Z. I just think the thing is we're just at an age now that if somebody, that's 254, 200. So in four playoff games, he's playing basically five, six.

1:12:22Shannon Sharpe:He's basically playing 60 snaps a game. So 251 in the four. So that's basically, he's playing 60.2 snaps a game. That's damn near the whole game, Ocho.

1:12:34Joe Johnson:Yeah.

1:12:35Shannon Sharpe:Because you know, they're only 65 to 70 snaps. So let's just say he's playing at least 95 % of the snap. That's all we're saying, Michael. It's not that I dislike you. It's not like I'm trying to play both sides. I'm trying to be as fair as I possibly can because I don't believe because you've had a bad playoff game that you are a bad player. My thing is that, man, based on what Michael Parsons has shown me in the regular season, what he's shown me over the first four years of his career, I don't know what happened to him today. but this is not good enough for the Cowboys to win. And if they want to win, Micah's going to have to play better in the bigger games.

1:13:14Shannon Sharpe:The bigger the game, the bigger the player plays. That's all. Yeah. And if you take it as that it's personal or I dislike you, you're sadly mistaken. I don't know enough to dislike you. I have no opinion. What you do off the field, that is of no concern of mine. All I do is that when you punch that clock at, be it 105 or 420. Yes, sir. Now, this is what we're watching. This is what we're doing. But I don't dislike anybody. I try to be as fair as I possibly can in my critique of analysts. Yeah. When I put my analyst hat on Ojo. And, but I appreciate, you know, me, I mean, look, like I said, I ain't here to defend nobody.

1:13:59Shannon Sharpe:I mean, me, he talked to me. He brought me up in the conversation and I'm trying to explain to him if you had a problem with something that I said, just come to me. You got my number? Yeah.

1:14:13Joe Johnson:And I just saw you at the Super Bowl. Yeah. But you also have to think too, huh? You got to think about what he said. He does a good job because he played the game and explaining himself in a sense. And he sees it as somewhat being on the fence. But also when he doesn't play well, he's saying, like, yeah, I mean, he's saying you called it on both sides. you call him a nephew if i'm not sure if you for better context and why he said f you know skip i'm not sure if you heard what's going to do with me yeah i know it doesn't have anything to do with you but that's why that's why the anger was more so directed to him it's more so directed to him because it's more it's more of if it's explanation in in in being critical of him but it seems a lot more personal especially when it comes from someone that has never played the game well i guess the

1:14:58Shannon Sharpe:thing is because you know some of the things that skiff says like he's happy that the guy got traded he's not gonna be missed i think i don't care about no trade that ain't got nothing to do with me look you played the broncos hey i love you when you're the broncos i wish you the best of luck if you go somewhere else i don't get all of that it ain't that serious to me ocho it's never been that serious to me it is never gonna be that serious to me but i just need i need guys not just Michael. Michael just happened to be the one. Everybody. I do have a job to do. So let me ask you a question. If you don't do your job, how long do you think you're going to be with a particular set team?

1:15:38Shannon Sharpe:So I have a job to do, and my job is to be as honest and as fair in my assessment of what I see based on my knowledge of the game and who you are as a player and what I I see. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't add anything. I don't add no yeast so it'll grow, and I don't take anything out of it. Whatever the ingredients that you give me to make, my argument for you, Ocho, that's what I use. So that's the thing. That's what we do. Ocho and I take the ingredients that you give us to make an argument. Whatever the ingredients is, that's what we use to make our argument for. But we're not going to add anything now.

1:16:21Shannon Sharpe:If you say the thing come with two tablespoons, all you're getting is two tablespoons. You're not getting any more. If you say four eggs whipped, you're getting four eggs. If you said flour, that's what you get. You get vanilla extract, you get cinnamon, whatever the ingredients call for. That's all we got for you.

1:16:41Joe Johnson:Yeah, they'll be all right, don't they'll be all right. The one that we listen, the ones getting talked about are the great ones. It's the great ones. It's the great ones that we talk about and And as much as they always want to play and be consistent week in and week out, you're going to have games when you play bad. You're going to. It's the nature of the game. It's life in general. The game of football has its ups and downs just like life. You practice all that time and you want to perfect your craft to the best of your ability. Unfortunately, you're not going to be able to do that all the time.

1:17:15When you're teeing off and your clients are watching, it's on. When the game goes to overtime and your squad is right there with you, it's on. When you swap out that other nicotine pouch for something softer and feel the difference right away, it's on. On Plus Nicotine Pouches with Niko Silk Mesh. No corners, no rough edges, just the softest pouch on the planet. When there's nothing between you and what's next, it's on with On Plus Nicotine Pouches. Not all varieties available in all geographies. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. 150 years ago, they were hunting us down to kill us, and now they're hunting down immigrants to deport them.

1:17:54This is First America, the true story of how the United States came to be and how we got to this present moment. Listen to First America on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:18:16I'm Mange Shachigular and I'm back with a new season of my podcast, Skyline Drive. This time I talk to scientists, biopunks, curmudgeons, blues owners, super seniors, and Goa's top cryotherapy lab to try to understand this obsession with living forever and what it means for all of us. And I get into a bit of trouble along the way. I'd say probably start bone smashing. That doesn't work. Make it look more defined. They say it works. I don't know. Listen to Skyline Drive, How to Live Forever on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Strong hands built America and kept it running for 250 years.

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1:19:42on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.