Deebo & Joe - Mike Tomlin Steps Down as Steelers Coach + Giants Hire John Harbaugh

24:07James Harrison:I'm just saying, no matter who's there, you coach, you coach, you, that's what you're saying when he's getting more. If that's his roster, you're going to give him more reason. Okay. Right. He's getting more with less. We can say that it was times where they're like, oh, the Steelers won't make the playoffs. The Steelers make the playoffs and get popped out in the first round. He got more with less, but he get way less with far more. A great coach don't do that, Joe. Yeah. A great coach don't do that, Joe. Joe, you came from Cleveland. Oh, for sure. I'm not knocking you and nothing like that. But you went from Cleveland to what you had to Mike Tomlin.

24:42I went from Bill Cowher, Mike Tomlin, to Cincinnati with Lewis. And then my last ended up coming back to the Steelers and then finishing off with Belichick. Okay? Okay.

25:02James Harrison:So what would you rank your coaches? Where would you rank the order of Mike Tomlin with those other coaches? I would rank Bill. Oh, well, hold on. I would rank Belichick, Kyle Tomlin, and then Lewis. Okay. That's where I would rank him, okay? Better. Now, he's a good coach, okay? A good coach finds a way to motivate his players, to lead his players, okay? And he gets the potential out of his players, okay? But the only problem with motivation, because he's a great motivator, is it doesn't last long. It's very inconsistent, bro. It's a feeling-based thing, motivation is. And that's what we've been seeing in Pittsburgh.

25:49It is emotional, feelings-based. It's inconsistent play. Coaching for the last decade could be because our coach is a great motivator, not a great coach. just like what you're seeing right now with all these guys with these emotional attachments you being one of the guys included that the it's not performance based on the field it is personal experience and relationship based you came from a situation where you didn't even know what a good coach was to now you're saying that's a great i know what great coaches look like i know what great coaches look i know how they i know how they move i know how they approach i i know what my measurement of greatness is.

26:34James Harrison:Is Coach T a Hall of Fame coach in your opinion? Say what? Is Coach T a Hall of Fame coach in your opinion? No. Okay. So now that's, yeah, that's actually crazy. Okay. Yeah. So we're just saying I can't give him a Hall of Fame coach for is because he hasn't made disciples. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need.

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27:49James Harrison:Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault in Our Stars, and now I guess also as the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years, since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team.

28:30James Harrison:Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, its beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to The Away End with Daniel Alarcón and John Green on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him. I was like, hi, dad. And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen, and she says, I have some cookies and milk. This is a badass convict. Right.

29:12James Harrison:Just finished five years. I'm going to have cookies and milk at mom. Yeah. On the Sino Show podcast, Each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail to talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to binge, featuring powerful conversations with guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic. And without this trouble, I'm going to die. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search The Sino Show, and listen now.

30:18James Harrison:growth, and navigating life with grace and grit, led by women who uplift, inspire, and tell the truth out loud. I have several conversations with God, and I know why it took 20 years. To hear this and more, listen to Keep It Positive, Sweetie, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Telling me you're a Hall of Fame coach, but no one has followed you. No one has been in line with you. That can't be the thing. He's the only coach that has coached this long and does not have a tree, bro. Guys are emotionally attached to him. I'm not going to say – no, no, no. I'm not going to not give him the Hall of Fame nod because he's bad at hiring offensive coordinators.

31:05James Harrison:And you think that is a thing that he's bad at doing, or do you think that is a thing that he purposely does to keep position and power? No, no, no. I don't think he self-sabotages. That's crazy. I'm not saying you self-sabotage. If you're hiring other coaches that aren't good enough because you think they're going to take the spotlight out of you. Aha. Aha. That's self-sabotage. Is it enough spotlight? Is it enough spotlight? No. Is that what you were saying? Listen. Listen, Joe. Is it enough spotlight to go around? You got to realize a lot of coaches, when they get this head coach thing, it's a lot of ego that go with that.

31:45It's a lot of ego that go with that. Okay? Now, a great coach, dude, like the measurement of greatness, like it's not based on personal experiences and relationship you have with them. It is purely on what you did as a coach. Did you get championships? What about wins and losses? Did you build disciples? Yes, wins and losses is great. All of that stuff? Because wins and losses have to add up to championships, brother. He has a ship. Okay, so I'm the greatest of all time as a linebacker because I got two Super Bowls.

32:19James Harrison:No, no, no, no. That's what I'm saying. That's what you're saying. No, no, no. I don't like, I don't, he, but why not? He went to the playoffs 13 times out of his 19 seasons. He won the AFC championship seven times. How many times did he win? He won it once, but we're not saying that he's the greatest. No, no, no, no, no. How many playoff games did he win? Because when you look at the greats, the measurement of greatness for all time greats, Like everybody is saying right now, nobody has a negative postseason record. And I can go back, back. Like, you go back to George Hallis, 6-3. You go back to Don Shuler, 19-17.

32:54It's still better than what he had. Like, even Paul Brown, 9-8. Bill Belichick, 31-13, bro. Andy Reid, 28-17.

33:06James Harrison:Like, what's timeless playoff record? We have at least one Bud Grant. Can you tell me what time this playoff record is? No. Why not? Because what is it, 8-12? Huh? What is it? What's his playoff record? You don't know it? I don't know it. What is it? But that's a measure of... What's his playoff record? He fought a Hall of Fame record. What's his playoff record, Debo? I don't know, Joe. I don't know. You don't know either? You said it was because of playoffs, but I'm just trying to figure out. I mean, if you're going to argue that point season, you move a number? I mean, look, he won the ship.

33:41James Harrison:He hasn't had more losing seasons than winning seasons. You're not going to win it every year. One team's going to win it. Eight and 12, bro. He eight and 12. Oh, that's what I thought it was. Eight and 12. One team's going to win it. So him being able to beat into the dance, like why? Okay, so a Hall of Fame. Listen, Joe. So a Hall of Fame coach should be making history for maybe having the longest losing streak in playoff history since it began. You're tied with Marvin Lewis as the longest head coach to NFL history. You're tied as the longest Lugan streak, seven games straight. That's a great coach.

34:20James Harrison:That's definitely not a good stat, but you got to put the good with the bad. You can't just take away all of the stuff we said before when he first got out there. You just said Hall of Fame was because of playoffs. Which one is it, Joe? He's a Hall of Fame coach. Because of what? because that he's went because we went 19 seasons with zero losing records that doesn't happen that's just not easy when you you just over shadow that you know i'm saying 13 he did go to the playoff 13 times he did go to the super bowl two times he did so you're good with eight nate i mean you've been you've been his record is better than eight nate his record is 190 he's He's won 192.

35:02This is the measurement of a Pittsburgh Steeler.

35:04James Harrison:He's 192 and 114. So he's better than 8-8. His overall record is better than 8-8, and he's won a Super Bowl. So I understand it's his time. As long as you have an overall better record. I'm still not saying it's not his time to go. Like, his time is good. I'm not saying it's not his time to go. I'm talking about great. Yes. What's his Hall of Fame qualification for me, for you? I just was giving it to you. You want me to keep saying the same thing over and over again? You said playoff record. then you said I said he went to the he's played and he's with a coach 19 years right okay 13 playoff appearances seven AFC championships two Super Bowl appearances one Super Bowl victory okay so anybody that wins a Super Bowl should be a great coach whoever keeps this long line longevity of consistency of winning keeping a team in the in the fight you got a dog have a dog in to fight.

35:58James Harrison:So you got to have 19 years and you got to have... No, no, no, no, no. You don't have to have 19 years. You don't have to have 19 years. He could have done better. He could have done more than this, but that's what I'm still saying at the same time. That's why he's not the greatest coach of all time, but he's a damn sure great coach that deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. That's all I'm saying. Okay. So, again, for me, what I'm seeing, what is being said out here is the emotional attachments these guys have to Mike Tomlin. And for me, I didn't have that emotional attachment with him. I can respect that you didn't have that emotional attachment.

36:36If I had stopped playing maybe in 2012, I might be one of those guys that was saying the same thing.

36:47James Harrison:You know why, Debo? Because then we speak this too. It's a relationship thing. You and Coach Tomlin have years with each other that at the same time, One time, when you were balling, hooping, everything, then another relationship where you felt like you was probably done dirty. Did you wrong? Said some things, lied. You know what I'm saying? So you have a whole different thing going on where, you know what I'm saying? How can people then? That's why you can sit there and say that it's that type of way. Me too, at the same way. When I wanted to redo my deal, we were talking about, oh, yeah, Joe, you're going to finish your career here.

37:17James Harrison:And then all of a sudden it went crickets. I could feel some type of way. No, no, no. See, it's totally different. You're saying that, oh, you thought you were going to finish your career there and dot, dot, dot, dot. See, what that gives me is I have clarity because our relationship was business. It was just that. It was business, okay? So how the saying go, Joe? I lie for you before I lie to you, right? The number one thing I was taught by my parents is you never lie to me because if you lie to me, I can't help you. And then I can't trust you, okay? The first time I know he lied to me was 2010, but that wasn't the biggest thing because I didn't have that relationship with him that I understood it was no obligation for him to tell me the truth.

38:03But the big thing was the first time I know he lied on me, and that was 2013. and as much as he doesn't say or as much as he says he doesn't listen to the outside noise I found that to be a lie in 2018 you want to know how I know Joe? how you know Debo? because he texted me he was into his feelings Joe because I said that Belichick was a better coach than him they asked me a question and I asked I was on Fox then 2018 brother I never forget it, okay? I was on with Skip and Shannon, and they asked me, and I gave my opinion on what it was and why it was, okay? Now, he responded with something like, Woodley was a smarter player than you, blah, blah.

38:59You know what? I don't even want—I want to give you this verbatim. You know that? I don't want to—I don't want to— You don't want to miss words. I don't want to mince words and say it because it is verbatim. Matter of fact, like I said, it was 2018. I was doing commentating for Fox. And I would go up there like maybe once or twice a month and be there for like two, three days. I'd go on all the shows, you know, do the commentating. They'd ask me whatever, da-da-da-da-da.

39:31So, now, this text I get from him. Oh, no. You're there in 2018. Yeah. So the text I get from him, here's the crazy thing. It's almost three, four weeks after it was said. Okay. It's August 7th, 2018 at 1.35. Joe, what time do y 'all go to practice? Tell me so.

39:58James Harrison:Probably like two. Like two, two, two thirty, something like that. But this is what's on your mind. He's watching me on TV. This has gotten to him somehow. Here is his text. He says, Wood was a smarter player than you, but I would never say that to anybody but you. I'm not with you for what you say. I'm always with you because of your relationship with the game and what you were willing to do. Don't act funny. I will always be with you no matter how fucked up you are. LOL. hell. Now, my response to him was, quote, if you wanted to tell the world that I would not be upset, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it just like I'm entitled to mine.

40:51No disrespect meant by it. It was just my honest answer to a question that was asked. Good luck Thursday. I'll always be with you no matter how fucked up you are 100 now you're telling me someone who doesn't listen to the outside noise is texting me that on a Tuesday before he's playing a Thursday game

41:13James Harrison:if it's a Tuesday look it could have been a day off no no no no no I made sure I looked at it I made sure I looked at it it wasn't a day off it was a Thursday game we had practice on that Tuesday So, again, my relationship with him is totally different. I can separate the great coach from the great motivator and see it. Guys that are in that position now, they still have that emotional attachment. And that makes them overshadow when you start looking at pure numbers. because coaching is something that is based on numbers and development. And he does not have the ability because he does not have a coaching tree to actually get coaches out and in through his toolage.

42:14But that's a great coach.

42:18James Harrison:I think like, why don't you think he would just hire? Do you think he's purposely not hire? I just don't understand. personally, just from that, it lets me know you feel a certain type of way. He, this is the one thing I thought, I said, I might have said it to you. I said, only way Mike Tomlin gets out of here is if he wants to leave. And it was one of two things. Okay? It was going to be his ego or it was going to be

43:01his pride. It was going to be his ego or his pride. Why he left? Why he would leave or stay. Okay. His pride is the part that would make him leave. He wouldn't be able to take the outside noise he doesn't listen to or says he doesn't hear. His ego would make him stay because I don't care what they say. I'm staying. I'll leave when I want to leave.

43:29and I think maybe the pride spoke a little loud

43:38James Harrison:Debo I just say one thing man the the fact that you have you can speak on like you said the emotional part and people get really in their feelings and get emotionally attached to coach T because like you said he is a great speaker he is a great when they say leader of men but I because when I can only know from where I came from. And the one thing, too, I can say is when I was in Florida, when I was at Florida, when we didn't win national championships, Urban Meyer was a special teams coach. We had a great defensive coordinator in Charlie Strong. We had a great offensive coordinator in Dan Mullen.

44:11James Harrison:So he put off things to other people that made sure those dudes knew exactly what was going on, and you got to kind of give off tasks and make sure you can't just be the only one running the whole kitchen because it takes a village. You know what I'm saying? Your GM got to be on the same page with you. Your coach has got to be on the same page. Your ownership has to be kind of following, kind of everybody's got to be working together. So I'm with you on not being emotional. On my part is I don't know all the nuances of what Coach T really had the power to do, what pull he had, what say-so he had.

44:47James Harrison:So when I'm coming in, I'm knowing I'm going to do my job. And if my coach gives me the tools to make sure I can go out there and do what I got to do to make sure we win. And if we don't win, we see why we didn't. And he gives us the facts and tools and the keys to victory. And if we go do this, we're going to go win these games every week. You know what I'm saying? I never went in there ill-prepared. So I hear what you're saying, too, with a great coach. If you're really going to do it, and this is kind of bringing it to me, where if you're going to be a great head coach, you got to have the GM right.

45:17James Harrison:You got to make sure you're offense coordinator. You got to be able to set people up and put them in positions to where now that's kind of how you build a tree. How Belichick and how these dudes have dudes that are disciples of them because they kind of taught them, put them in positions, and they kind of got it. That's the part of where I'm always understanding. Great coach is, what are you telling me to do? Are you making sure I know exactly what to do and when I need to do it to go win? And then coaching me up to like, not just bad tape is bad tape. eye in the sky don't lie being accountable for everybody like showing the stuff I was with that so I can that on that part is why I say great coach on the other part is where like there's a whole lot more where if you're not if you're in the GM aren't on the same page if you're actually the one bringing in the talent if you're bringing in these quarterbacks signing these guys drafting these people then the then the then the buck really does have to stop on you if everything's not performing if you're not getting the best out the people that you hand selected so I'm with you a thousand percent, Debo.

46:16James Harrison:You kind of giving me a lot of more knowledge where, like, as coaching, leader of men, making sure I knew what I was doing, great coach. As far as bringing in talent. Hey, that's what I'm trying to say, Joe. You're saying great coach, leader of men, telling me what I'm supposed to do. That's a good coach to me. A great coach gets you beyond what your actual level of play is. Like, Dick LeBow, if it wasn't for Dick LeBeau, there is no James Harrison. Dick LeBeau got me to play beyond the potential of what James Harrison was because he was an undrafted nobody that would be nothing but a whole life special teams player.

47:00You go to that and you go to Keith Butler, my linebacker coach, the greatest linebacker coach I ever had. He is the person that developed me, turned me into what I am, made me what I am, showed me how to do this job, the nuances of doing it in and out. And I played it in Dick LeBeau's defense. Okay. And that was tailor made for me. The same defense I thought was so hard and difficult for me to learn. Once I actually sat down, became a true professional, understood what I needed to do and learned it and put it on tape. It was easy for me to go out there and play and excel in it because those were two great people that were in it.

47:39Yeah. I won a title under Tomlin. Yes, I give him that. Good coach. Good coach. He did the things necessary to keep the people in place because that's what was there. It would be foolish to let those people go. Okay? And also, Sam, when we were sitting there at the game, what did the ham say? 9-5 is a good player, right? He said he's a good player. I looked it up, bro. 9-5 is a good player. 9-5 is a good player. Yeah. As much as I said he's not, but you know why he's not a good player? Because they playing him out of position. You're telling me a great coach takes an athlete like that that could be great and puts him in a position to not excel?

48:22James Harrison:What position do we need to put him at, though? He needs to be on the end. Okay. Okay. He needs to be on the end. He's a rush in, dude. All right. He actually got dope, like for real. Is it because he's quick, but he's too light? Dude, here's a funny thing. Before TJ moved to the left, PZ was the linebacker coach. I said, PZ, I know y 'all ain't going to do nothing with me and let me play on the right, but move TJ to the left. I would see every time in practice, when TJ got to practice rushing on the left, he had that move. Can't nobody stop him. I'm like, just move him to the left. Like, just move him to the left.

48:59They thinking, I want to get in there and play. I know y 'all not going to play me. I already know that. Why don't you move TJ to the left automatically? He could get that. They don't do it. TJ finally was like, yo, in one of the offseason, I want to move to the left. Move to the left. Boom. Gone. Gone. Should have moved him to the left quicker. Should have moved him to the left quicker. Quicker. Like, we're at a point right now where, or we got to a point where when Cowher was there, Cowher drafted talent for the position that was needed to get the job done at that position. I think around that 13-15 time frame, Coach Tomlin got into drafting athletes, numbers, speed, all that, and not getting players that could do the skill needed at the position, which in 13 led to Dick LeBow's defense dropping in 13 and 14.

50:08and then them not renewing him because now you have him at a, I think it was a 13 and a 18 and 14, and now you can say, you know what, his defense don't work. That was a call. His defense don't work no more. It just don't work. It don't work. That's not true. His defense works. It was younger and younger players starting. Dick LeBeau's defense, he don't start rookies. There's only been one rookie before 2013 that started in a Dick LeBeau defense, and that was Kendrell Bell. And we ran – I don't even know if y 'all ran this. We ran Gap, Mac – we ran Mac games. So we ran Mac games. So it was either Gap, Mac, knife, sword, gun, switch, whatever it was.

51:03So it was me telling – exactly exactly you don't even know what I'm talking about you got there in 17 that's why you think he's right and I'm wrong and I we have a difference of opinion that told the Mac backer to hit gaps a through b I mean a through d over here or a through d over here why because I don't want him thinking I need to get him to where he knows where he's going because in that defense You didn't play in the pure Dick LeBeau fire zone defense. When I got there in 14, I was like, yo, why are we changing this? When I unretired and came back, I'm like, some things are changing. It's like, yo, we had to change some things so players didn't have to think so much and they could be able to play now.

51:48Now, when you do that in the Dick LeBeau defense and you take that away, what happens? You're dumbing it down. Yes, you're dumbing it down and you take away two or three other defenses that look the same as that one defense, but it's doing something totally different. And that's why when rookie quarterbacks see a Dick LeBeau defense, a true Dick LeBeau defense, they are talking about their seeing ghosts. Why? Because you're looking at the same thing, the same lineup, the same look, and it's four different ways those people can come. But now you had to take that one out. So now it's no teeth to the other one because you didn't get the player that needed to play the position to do what was necessary.

52:32As an inside linebacker in our defense, you got to come downhill, bang a dude and get off of him. As an outside linebacker, you have to dominate the tight end. A tight end should never block you one on one. And you have to be able to get out in coverage to a cloroflat. You have to be able to go seam. sometimes you got to run down with the number two. All that got taken away. So you see what I'm saying? Like, I have different parameters than you does. But my perspective and your perspective are two different things, dude.

53:04James Harrison:I feel you. I hear you. But I'm just telling you what I know from being the cornerback and getting coached up. It just, I feel like if the dude. Dude, if you could have played in Dick LeBow's system, I guarantee you your numbers would have jumped by three. But the thing is, the cornerback, it was easy though, Debo. I think I'm, the thing is, there's nuances and stuff that we didn't get. But I don't think some people are just like not smart enough to get defenses sometimes. Some things are a little bit confusing. I think my mind kind of works pretty well. But that's the big draw. Like, it's easy.

53:41Even the offenses that are facing us saying, oh, this is easy. We know what they're going to do. Why? Because you had to dumb it down so much because you're trying to make guys play now. Like you have to have some complication to your defense. You have to. For sure. Like he said, we're playing chess, not checkers, right? Yes. No, no, no. That's what he said. But guess what? We're playing tic-tac-toe because everybody and their mama see it. And we go into a game, like TJ just said this past game, we felt good about the week. We went in. Everything was, you know, it was good. We felt prepared. And what happened?

54:14Yeah.

54:17James Harrison:the offense shit down their leg. They're part of the preparation on the other side, right? Yeah, man. So, look, this is what I'm saying. So, what are you expecting? What are you expecting to happen? I'm expecting a great head coach to put people in position to get coaches that can actually... How many coaches did you learn anything from at the Steelers when you were there in your tenure? Who gave you nuggets that made you a better player? Who gave you, who increased your knowledge? Who increased your capabilities? Coach Blake. Okay. Coach Lake. Where is Coach Lake? He was hired. He went to go see his son play out in L.A.

55:13James Harrison:So what happened after that? No, then it got, yeah. Then it was Scrapp. He wasn't, he didn't help too much. Who was my third one? You can't even remember. That's the problem. No, no. It was, man, my third one was a good, we had a good DB coach. Telling you it was. It was just brain firing. Yeah, man. Yeah. But it was, I promise you. I promise you it was one. But I only had one bad DB coach there. so good equates to a great coach hiring no I already told you I do believe he will get into the hall just because of the numbers do I believe he should be in there no there's coaches that haven't the same reason I don't believe I should be in there my numbers aren't what they are I've said it multiple times I've said that so many times it's ridiculous.

56:10Even though we played in a defense where we dropped damn near 50 % of the time, and any time you got a pass rush, it may not be a pure rush. It could be a run. So you may get maybe eight to ten pure pass rushes in the game if you're lucky. And that was if Coach LeBeau decided that, hey, we're not going to rush our outside guys. We need you guys to head up the tight end and just whoop his ass, two-gapping and dominating the run game, and we'll pick everything else up with the corners coming in.

56:40James Harrison:Mm-hmm. Nah, you're going to get in there, though. You're going to get in that bit, Debo. That's for sure. I respectfully hear what you're saying. Listen, I'm going to tell you right now. You don't understand. You don't understand. I don't care if I get in. I ain't even. The only thing I ever cared about was making my daddy proud, bro, and I did that. I don't think they understand. Right now, think about this. Think about this. AB. AB should be first in Ballot Hall of Fame. A thousand percent. A thousand percent. You think you're going to get first ballot hall of fame? Hell no. Okay, they get their chance to make that thing to where they can do whatever they want to do.

57:13James Harrison:T.O. It is not purely numbers based. And that is why I'm telling you Tomlin will get in because I don't think he should get in because guys are saying the things. He's going to get in for sure. Yes. He's going to get in for sure. Yes. I can hear what you're saying. You, I... Hey, just like it was his decision to leave or not. It's going to be the same thing. Mm-hmm. No question. He going to be able to do what he want, though. Oh, yeah. Hey. I'm sure. What's up? Hardball. Giants. The Browns ain't getting it. Man. It's all good. It's all good. Hey, Joe. It's all good. Hey, Joe. Yeah. It's all good.

58:01James Harrison:Who you hoping for now, Joe? Man, bro, after that, that one flustered me because I put all my eggs in one basket. I ain't even going to lie to you. So, yeah, right now I'm just waiting to see what they, Mr. Haslam, what he's looking to come up with, him and Mr. Barry, see what they looking for. So, you know, I'm just here. I'm just waiting. I'm just waiting. I'm just hoping and praying. I'm hoping something good happens. Yes. I'm going to let them do it. Because you know what? Look, we heard about that. What the Steelers are going to do with the coach? Because like you said, you want a great coach.

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1:00:00James Harrison:My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. and I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, its beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer is the most important.

1:00:38James Harrison:Listen to The Away End with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him. And I was, hi, dad. And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen. And she says, I have some cookies and milk. This is badass convict. Right. Just finished five years. I'm going to have cookies and milk at mom. Yeah. On the Senior Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. on a recent episode I sit down with actor cultural icon Danny Trail to talk about addiction transformation and the power of second chances the entire season 2 is now available to binge featuring powerful conversations with guests like Tiffany Addish Johnny Knoxville and more I'm an alcoholic and without this trouble I'm gonna die open your free iHeartRadio app search the Cito Show and listen now A ambitious, well-intentioned, ferocious, and wealthy mother looks like in the Black community.

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1:02:31James Harrison:Y 'all ain't been doing it for a long time. Only had three. This is the thing. How much wiggle room are y 'all, how much wiggle room are you giving the coach? I'm 100 % ready and know we're going to be in a basement if we're trying to rebuild this. And I think we need to rebuild this. I don't know if Steeler fans can handle that. That's what I'm going to say. I don't care if I'm the person making the decision. I don't care. This is what's going to have to happen. Just like it happened over there with the Patriots. Look where they're at right now. Look where they're at right now. You got to go to the basement to get back up.

1:03:07unless you go give up everything that you have to find a quarterback that is out there right now and get him we're going to be in the basement and this draft is not it i don't know if the next draft is it we're going to be in the basement to be able we're going to have to be in the basement to be able to draft a draft a quarterback we can be a franchise quarterback okay we're going to be in a bit we're going i understand that and we're going to have to draft far better than we have been doing the last 10 15 years

1:03:43Yep. I'm ready to accept. As long as we get a person that can get that done, I'm willing to accept.

1:03:56James Harrison:I'm willing to accept being in the new basement. because this is what I'm saying. Your coach, when I'm telling you being in the basement, do we need to see something? Because the Steelers, they ain't had to really be dealing with another different head coach. So I'm saying, how long are you giving him to look terrible in the basement? Because we're going to have Will Howard. We're still going to obviously try to play and see what's up. So you mean... So you're telling me that we could take Will Howard and put him in there. Let's stop all this. No, no, no, no. Aaron Rodgers saved this team. That is a great decision that Mike made by getting Aaron Rodgers.

1:04:33I will say that.

1:04:34James Harrison:I don't know why you're at it. Because without him, what are you talking about? It would have been looking. No, for sure. It would have been his first losing season ever if Aaron Rodgers wasn't there. Look at the games he won. Look how he won them. Look how our defense played in them. And look how we had to win them. You're telling me that this still would be a 10-17 with Aaron Rodgers not there. No. No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that we obviously are going to go need to get a quarterback. If Will is going to be the one that's going to be playing, we need to get a vet, obviously. Or if we lose, lose, we're going to get hopefully a high pick where we get Caleb Williams like the Bears did, or Drake May for number three.

1:05:16James Harrison:You know what I'm saying? Like the Patriots did. So you're obviously going to have to lose, but I'm saying with the coach-wise, giving them a little bit of leeway because I'm giving them leeway. I ain't signing them to no less than a five-year deal. I'm loving the way that the, I'm loving though, I think Robert, I mean, Robert Kraft, the way that he did it with New England, he put Mayo in there for a year, fired him, and then was still able to get, what's my man right now that's at the Patriots? The one that we, that I wish we could get, but he's not going nowhere. Oh, no, he ain't leaving there.

1:05:46James Harrison:He's from Tennessee. Yes, yes, yes. So we got to get a great, Grable ain't leaving there. That's crazy. Grable, we got to get a great coach, bruh, that you saying that's going to be able to bring offensive and defensive coordinators because the Steelers is definitely. And I'm not, listen, I'm not saying he has to be a great coach right now, but I need to have the potential of being able to grow into that. You've seen something in him from year whatever it is to year whatever, and he can grow. And on top of that, I want to know that he can put a staff in place. I want to know that he's not going to be somebody that feels like he can't put somebody at XYZ because it may take attention away from him.

1:06:28James Harrison:So let me tell you, let me go, this is a question I really wanted to know. Since you're talking about we're going to have to be trash for a little bit and everything, are we still saying with these same players? Are you trying to dump? Are you trying to get rid of contracts? Are you trying to look and see what's going on? I'm dumping for sure. Okay, all right. I'm going to have to. Because that's what you're going to have to do. Yeah, I have to. Because it's bred out there and it's young. and you can try to really go reset and re-re - if you really try and re-figure it out, then I'm here. Yeah, I got to.

1:06:59James Harrison:Okay. That's just to say it. Yeah, I mean, I hate to say it, but I'm getting rid of older, expensive talent. Got to. Okay, I'm here with you. I have to. I got to start younger. I got to start younger because I need to be able to grow with this. I got to teach them. I got to bring them in. And to be honest, I don't just as, you know, I don't want to deal with the past, you know of whatever they may expect from me because of what their dealings were with thomas so i'm cleaning i'm cleaning house i have to i'm sorry but i have to i gotta start off fresh and i and look at look at rabel dude he he let go and signed so many people i think it was like 20 something dudes in his first week two weeks there before that he went and got the coaches.

1:07:48He got the coaches. I need the coaches that I need. Like, he put together, he get an all-star coaching style. He got that together. And I need guys to be there that when the players see them or hear their name or whatever that may be, it's automatic buy-in. My DB coach is Joe Hayden. Come on. Automatic buy-in, right? Yes. Okay. I'm coaching them up. Now, I got, you know, I got my DB coach is blah, blah, blah that I brought up from the scouting department and now he's my DB coach. Huh? No credibility. None. So now when he tells you, you can't even relate the game to me. It's something that's not going on that's not being translated when I'm seeing every corner, every DB except for a few, when they get beat, first thing they do is look back.

1:08:38James Harrison:Ain't nobody stopped. That's when, D-Bo, we're going to have that. Literally, it's eyes. It's straight eyes in the middle room. We're doing that the whole time. And if you're doing that in practice, you're not going to get in the game. No. Because that's what you're going to do. You're going to do what happens. Right. If you practice it, you're going to play it. Stop looking back crazy. I'm having dudes boxing gloves. I'm treating them like kids until you get that credibility to where, okay, you're showing me you know how to play. Okay. I might give you a little rope. Dude, again, that's what Coward did, dude.

1:09:08James Harrison:And that was the one thing. Coward, you earned what it was that you were going to get. I don't give a damn if you was a first-rounder or a fifth-rounder. You earned everything. And when it came time around that, like I said, that 13, 14 timeframe, bro, guys were giving it. Hey, you my first-rounder. You my first-rounder. Here, here. Guys, go ahead. Get out there. We're going to fix whatever it is we need to adjust so you can play. See, I ain't going to lie to you. Coming out of that Belichick, I had Eric Mangini, and I was a first-round pick, and he did not give me nothing. I didn't start until game week six.

1:09:43James Harrison:I was special teams, four-phase guy, working my ass, learning. Show me. I'm like, I'm going to show you that I deserve it. I get in that thing after the sixth game of the season. I never come back out. But you got to just, you're not just Joe Hayden, first-round pick, here you go. No. We don't care about that. We don't care about none of that because unless you, Sheldon Brown, Eric Wright, no. That's college. They was like, that's college. You did that in college. Yeah. You got to show me something. You got to show me something here. Mm-hmm. I'm with that. I'm not about to just hand this to you.

1:10:13They talking about the head coaching job for Pittsburgh. They got it ranked as the third. They got Ravens one, Falcons two. You agree with that, man? You think Baltimore and Atlanta is more desirable than Pittsburgh?

1:10:23James Harrison:I think only Baltimore. Maybe only Baltimore right now just because they got Lamar. Just because they got Lamar. You being real, real, real disrespectful right now. Brother, brother, brother. Brother, brother. In my opinion, I mean, look, we don't got no coach either. So, I mean, we trying to think. That's what it is for the head coaching job. when you want to be able to come in there and say i can pick my coach i can pick my quarterback i could do what i want to and i'm not stuck saying that i need to have you got to keep the oc because that is a defense or an offense that is ran totally different than what the regular offenses are ran in the nfl because you will have a quarterback that is a running back and a quarterback.

1:11:08Now you're cutting yourself down to have to pick a backup that is something like him or exactly like him.

1:11:15James Harrison:Man, look, I'm not turning down. I mean, Lamar, it's still Lamar Jackson. I understand. And if that's your type of offense, you know what I'm saying? You are the type of offense that runs that. You are the type of head coach that likes the RPOs, that likes to do that. And you're a big defensive guy too. So I think there could be a fit where that coach could be like, hey, I do have Lamar Jackson, but at the same time, I'm with you too at Pittsburgh where I can pick whatever quarterback I do want. We don't really have one there. Like, go talk to them what leadership role, what ability do I have to bring in whoever I want.

1:11:48Okay. But I'm still thinking the Steelers job is number one. You're going to steal it first. I'm going to steal it first. I got to put in my request for interviewing and all that. So when I do that and everything, I'll let you know how the process goes. Please do, bro.

1:12:06James Harrison:I'm trying to tell you. Like I said, listen, I'm going to make my job so easy, man. I'm going to hire the coldest position coaches and coordinators around. I want to make my job as easy as possible as a head coach. I do not care who gets the credit because at the end, I'm going to get the credit because I hired them and put them where they are. For sure. Okay? For sure. You understand? Listen, I do not want teachers. I want professors of the game. You understand what I'm saying? I like that. Yes. I'm sorry. I'm not promoting from within. That's going to look... No. Unless you done showed me something...

1:12:50I'm going to go pluck somebody from the... I'm going to pluck them out the sky. You come on over here.

1:12:56James Harrison:Thank you. You come on over here. Dude. Hey, what you think about a college? What do you think about a college? What about that college football coach, bro? Indiana. No, I'm talking about Indiana, too. Indiana? Oh, yeah. He from PA. He's not nice, too. He from PA. And he from PA. Yeah, A. But you ain't going to be able to get him to leave. He already said he ain't leaving. And I sound like he a man of his word right now. You know what I'm saying? He sound like he a person that has a conviction. Yeah, I hope so. He do what he say he go through. You know, he makes his players, hold his players accountable.

1:13:27James Harrison:I tell you one thing, and that's what I'm talking about. He's open. He look like he's not bull. I like him. Hey, listen. We're going to give it a shot. This could be one of those chances where we go ahead, talk to him. Hey, do what you got to do to get him to at least come on through, do an interview. You be able to come. Listen, you could be the next 25, 30-year coach here. I like what he's doing over there in Indiana now. I love what he's doing over there. I like what he's doing over there. Hey, he came from the basement too. He going to make everybody enter. That's why he make them earn it.

1:14:02Yep. That's why he make them earn it. Look here, man. We got a playoff game, too. We got the Bears over there with the Rams, the playoff game. Bruh, they said it's supposed to be the coldest game in recent history, Joe. Hey, we got a video, man. Look at the blizzard conditions right now in Lake Michigan, baby. See?

1:14:20James Harrison:That's what I'm telling you. I'm leaning in Chicago. Hey, hey. Boy. And my man Matthew Stafford hurt his little finger, too. It's going to be cold. His finger's going to be tingling. Bro, they are not looking good in cold weather, dude. You talking about, what they say, zero to negative 10 wind chill, something like that? Let me check. Man, bro. Zero to negative 10. I'm colder. 20-mile-an-hour gust. And they said the Rams ain't played a game below 50 all season. 1-8. 54 % completion for Stafford 1-8 record 14 touchdowns 11 interceptions brother dang yeah man that's why I look and it's colder it looks freezing out there and my man hit his his pointer finger of his throwing hand it's going to be 10 that might help him because this is going to be numb man Debo I'm not you need all the time you can get I'm not rocking with that hey man what's the coldest weather game you ever played in I know what mine is I think it was against y 'all.

1:15:27James Harrison:Man, I know I played in Cleveland at like negative three. Bruh, it was the game. I want to say it was like 2008 or something in Cleveland, bruh. It was like wind, hail, snow, just freezing off the lake, bruh. And everybody out there, they talking about, man, it's so cold, man. It's cold as this, it's that, man. And I'm like, man, y 'all shut up. You niggas have got some pussies around here. I been here. I live here, bruh. This ain't nothing, man. Bruh, when I say I stepped out that tunnel, and the tinglys, it felt like real-life needles. Yes. Sticking through my arm, bruh. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. We had a, you get fined.

1:16:06$1 ,000, you wear sleeves. Yo, wear sleeves. Bruh, if it wasn't for me talking so reckless and crazy, I almost turned around immediately and went back into the locker room.

1:16:19James Harrison:Oh, for sure, you had, no, no, no, you couldn't. I didn't. I couldn't. I couldn't, bro. That is the only game. We lost. We lost, y 'all. We lost, bro. Yeah. And I did not give a fiddle faddle. I wanted to get off that field. Because even at halftime, bro, you know how you get in there at halftime? Yeah. And when you're hot, you feel the heat coming off your body. I felt the ice rising. I felt cold like I was in the freezer from the coldness rising off my body. Yeah. Yeah, that's that weather. It's no joke. I can't stand the cold. So, let me just be out there. But you better get a three and out so I can get over to that heated bench.

1:17:01James Harrison:Please. Dude, listen, bro. We was going over there on timeouts. Yo, no, for sure. 30-second timeouts, Joe. I ain't never did that day in my life, bro. I'm waiting, bro. I'm looking at... D-Bo, I was doing that the whole time. Waiting for... Looking at the ref. Waiting for him to blow the whistle. As soon as you come out there, hey, we got TV or not? We got TV. I ain't about to leave this. We got TV or not. We rolling or what we got? We this or that? The man on the field with the gloves or not? Yes. If you're on the field with the gloves, I'm on the sideline. Yes. Yes. Watch them orange gloves right there, Joe.

1:17:32Yes. Man, we got to get to this, man. It's 1210, man. Oh, man. You know what time it is? Play a fade. Let's see it, brother. We're on the sideline.

1:17:50We're on the sideline. All right, Joe. You know how it works. You play it or you fade it. Now, I got Josh Allen over here in Buffalo. I got him more on rushing. I already know that he go do what he got to do. He go scramble, get loose on that thing. He got to do it. I got Purdy. He go throw a pick. That's just what he do, man. He a gunslinger. And on top of that, like last week when the tight end didn't relate and come down on that route, I think he going to have some, issues where that may happen. CJ, I'm going to say he's going to have more on rushing. The reason I say he's going to have more on rushing is I believe they probably told him, you cannot turn the ball over.

1:18:34If you don't do anything else, take off. Do not turn the ball over. I don't care if you get sacked. Do not throw the ball into an ill-advised situation. That is the only way that they're going to have a chance to be able to beat New England. in New England. Now, in the other one, we just talked about that. Oh, that is obvious. Less. That is obvious.

1:18:58James Harrison:Less. Less. What you going to do, Joe? I'm going to play this. I'm going to play this and I'm going to just be watching because once the first, once my man, if CJ Stroud, my good man, gets over 10 and a half, this joint is good as, we good as one. We good as one. Oh, yeah. Only one of those that I'm watching that Stroud after that, man, is we good in the books. Listen, your boy Joe go play with your boy to put out there. Let's make sure you guys download the app today and use the code DBOJO. Yes, sir. $50 in lineups after you play your first$5 lineup. All right, look here. We got some super chats.

1:19:35We got Kenneth Powell 2079. He donated $5. He said, I say they need to hire DBO's head coach. What do you think of that, Joe? I agree wholeheartedly

1:19:49James Harrison:because I know he's going to do you go yeah because you want a job right you know what you don't i know i i would like the cornerback position i got you know you in there and you know i'm gonna coach them boys all the way up for sure we're gonna be out there getting all the picks and then i know you're gonna hire an offensive mind that we need to make sure our offense is ran the proper way yes

1:20:13yes yes what we got here

1:20:20What is that? Because the Roonies don't what? Let me see if it's on here.

1:20:29Stilson14 donated$10 said, Tomlin got a chance to be in the great coach conversation because the Roonies don't fire coaches. Any other owner, and he'd been gone by 2020. What do you think of that, Joe? I would say, I think after they won it in 2008,

1:20:53James Harrison:he went back to the Super Bowl in 2010, I think the Steelers, just the fans, you get kind of, you want to win every single year. I understand that. I can say 2020, I think it's right about time. Could have been two years, could have been last year, maybe the year before. But right now, I think it's the grateful time for him to gracefully bow out. Like, it is what it is. I think he did it long enough at a great pace where it's not great pace, but just, you know, you were making the playoffs. You were doing good. You won the Super Bowl, brought you back to another one since 2010. So it's been a minute.

1:21:27James Harrison:So I think right now it's time.

1:21:33Yeah, I personally, I don't know about 20, but I think it should have been done. I'm with you. I think it should have been a little sooner. We got Diamond for underscore one donated$5 said, I like Brian Flores for head coach. Nate, what is that? Shilhas for OC. Raheem Morris for DC. Trinidad Trambliss for Taylor Green for to complete, to compete, to compete with Will for quarterback. I don't know. I mean, I like, I like Blon, I like, I like Flores, but I like him as a, as a coordinator. As a DC. Yeah, I like him as a DC. Mm-hmm. Um,

1:22:26James Harrison:I'm with you. Uh, no, that she's me as the head coach. Yep. What do you, what do you think of Nate as the OC? Nate, I don't know. Shul where's Nate at who's Shilhouse Shilhouse it's it's Shil it's like Shul but it's it's 2E so it's Shilhouse where is he out of I don't know that's why I was asking I don't know where I don't know where no Shilhouse is either Rams okay okay okay hey that's what look for offensive coordinator I want if you learn from McVay let's see what McVay I don't know I don't know. That don't give me that instant vibe. It don't give you that instant eye. That's what we need? Yeah.

1:23:16Yeah.

1:23:17James Harrison:Yeah. I need that instant as soon as I hear the name, as soon as I think, like, I need that. And I just, you know, we got Mike and Mike donated. Mike and Mike-100 donated$10. Said, what's up, D-1 Joe? Does the next Steeler coach last as long as Tomlin did? or do they have to step down a few seasons if they can get a ring? After a few seasons, or do they have to step down after a few seasons if they can't get a ring? Hell no. Listen, I'm trying to tell y 'all, the next coach, if it's me, I'm giving me five years. I'm giving me time to build up for the first three, and then after that, I got to see great improvements.

1:24:09that's what I'm going to do

1:24:12James Harrison:I'm rocking with that but don't you need to see like a legitimate change you know what I'm saying a legitimate like I need to see the culture change and like I like the way that when the Patriots they ended up getting rid of Belichick and then my man what's my man's name Jared Mayo he went out there for a year and they went 4-13 and he's like They had Bell Belichick for 20 years, and he quickly was able to fire Mayo because it just wasn't what he was with, and now able to hire the coach they have now, Brable. So it's like, I think the Steelers are going to have to do a really good job of really like, is this the guy that you're going to be with?

1:24:50James Harrison:Because they don't really mean having to pick the guy too many times. So it's hard to be able to find that guy. Well, yeah, you got to realize, it ain't nobody, I don't think there's nobody in that organization right now that actually went through the process of finding Coach T or that was truly involved in it. so that's the part where it's like coaches aren't easy when you find a man that you really kind of believe in you got to kind of stick to him so I'm respecting I don't know I think I think that's a problem that that a lot of like coaches have especially with their higher draft choices they stick with them until it's too late and they they stick with them too long so they'll just hold on to him knowing that after year two that's not yeah what they want or need but instead of letting him go that hold on to him until they're like, look, they got to be able to say, hey, I messed up.

1:25:37I messed up.

1:25:39James Harrison:Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. A lot of guys, a lot of guys won't do that. I mean, some, some, some, some guys do. You see guys getting up out of there. You see a first rounder that, you know, year after year two, he done went to two, three other teams. For sure. Yeah. So, I mean, but you got to be willing and ready to do that and admit fault and value when that happens. I don't think we had that. I know we ain't had that. I mean, we held on to guys for longer than we should have. And we know that because we didn't re-sign up to long-term deals. We just held on to them because it was there. So on and so forth.

1:26:14South Steelers 36 donated$2. Said, Debo, are you serious about D.C.? No, I am not serious about D.C. He said, you got my vote. I'm serious about head coach. I ain't coming in there on no bottom. I ain't coming in on no side. I can't be on no side. I gotta be on top because I gotta be able to put the people one place to make sure that everything flows smoothly. Your staff is going to be automatic. Your staff has to be sitting there and buying into what it is you doing and everybody else is doing. We got to be speaking the same language. I got to be saying the same thing. Nobody can be saying something different.

1:26:49I know it was times where it was coaches where they were saying two different things about the same play. You can't have that.

1:26:58James Harrison:You can not have that. That is a recipe for failure. I did it this way, or I think you should do it that way. It's the I think you should do it this way ones that kill me because you ain't played the game. How are you going to tell me how to do it? You ain't even never went out here and did it. That's why I need a coach that played the position that I played and did it successfully. You know what I'm saying? I think you should do it this way. It's crazy. Like, dude, I just don't understand that, dude. oh dude we had about 12 20 coach yeah let's get up out of it hey we want to thank you guys for joining us on this episode of Debo and Joe please make sure you like subscribe and download where it's possible this show baby hey Joe yes sir gotta say Joe say I will see y 'all on Monday on another episode of Debo and Joe hey we about to watch these games this weekend we're gonna be right back on this thing on Monday letting y 'all know how it go y 'all know how we break it down y 'all come to hear it you know what it is you know what it is and we up

1:28:19James Harrison:Peace to the planet Charlamagne the Godhead and listen we are back the Black Effect Podcast Festival is back in Atlanta on April 25th at Pullman Yards. Yeah. And the full lineup is nuts. We got the Grits and Eggs podcast, Deontay Kyle and Big Ice Cup Cat. We got Club 520 with Jeff Teague and the gang. JJ. Don't call me white, girl. Mona will be there. Keep it positive, sweetie, with Crystal Renee. We got Reality with the King with Carlos King. And yes, Drink Champ will be in the building. Okay. Plus, you know, we're going to have a lot of guests. So you need to join us. And we got the Black Effect Marketplace, to pitch your podcast and everything you expect from the Black Effect Podcast Festival.

1:28:58James Harrison:Tickets are on sale right now. Go get yours at blackeffect.com slash podcast festival. Don't play yourself, okay? Pull up.

1:29:09James Harrison:Then she says, have you seen a photo of my son? And I'm like, who is this person? Welcome to the Boys and Girls Podcast. Arranged marriage is basically a reality show and you're auditioning for your soulmate. And who's judging? Only your entire family? I sacrificed myself to this ancient tradition, hoping to find love the right way. And instead, I found chaos, comedy, and a lot of cringe. Listen to Boys and Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Daniel Alarcón, and this is my friend who's much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm John Green, co-host of the podcast The Away End, with my old friend Daniel.

1:29:49James Harrison:On our podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer is the most important. Listen to The Away End with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear? I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success.

1:30:28Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being at SoundItOutTogether.org. That's SoundItOutTogether.org. Brought to you by the Ad Council and Pivotal. This is an iHeart Podcast.

1:30:43James Harrison:Guaranteed human.