Deebo & Joe - Part 1: Has NFL figured out Lamar Jackson + Steelers LEGEND Heath Miller joins!

25:25James Harrison:But if you're saying what's worse, I'd rather him throw the ball against me than run the ball against me. So that's what you're saying. You have your great rush lanes and you're forcing him to throw the ball. I'd rather him be a passer against me than a runner. So I understand what he's saying there, but I think he can still make the throw. So he's not like saying, oh, Josh Allen's, I mean, Lamar Jackson. If you just make him throw, he can't win. he's saying, if you please take away his legs, because that will really kill you. He can still make the throws, but if you're picking best of both worlds, I'd rather have him in the pocket with my dudes in their rush lanes and have him make him throw the ball against me.

25:59James Harrison:I would say same thing too with Lamar. His weapons haven't really, like he has a tight end. It was cool. And then we had Hollywood Brown. I mean, Andrews, amazing. Pro Bowl tight end. But he hasn't really had too many like number ones, a guy that you had outside that you could just give it to and throw the ball to. Like just on one-on-ones. He hasn't had a Jamar Chase. He hasn't had a T Higgins. So for me, I hear what he's saying, but he's making sense because if it was on me, I would rather Lamar throw the ball than run. The big thing with Allen is, you know, he's saying he's hard to tackle, all this other stuff.

26:32I'm not. Allen can make those throws and then Allen can go ahead and throw somebody else the ball, too. For sure. When time ain't right. Lamar does the same thing. Don't nobody want to talk about that, though. I don't know why. He turns the rock over like crazy in the playoffs, too.

26:47James Harrison:but the last couple of times when it was looking at it we had Andrews dropped the ball we've had people Lamar had Lamar Jackson wasn't the reason why they lost these games in the playoffs at the end I for sure it hasn't been his fault I think his team has let him down in these last playoff runs it hasn't been his bad do you think you think he has none of those turnovers had anything to do with it. Brother, I mean, they didn't help, but at the end of the game, they had a chance to win and then they would play like drop the pass, fumble in the end zone, dive in the end zone, like legitimate bang bangs that lose the playoff.

27:28You want to give the emphasis on the last person to not make a play.

27:32James Harrison:Because, I mean, all things happen in the game, exactly, but you get to the fourth and now everything happened. Now can we win it or lose it? You know what I'm saying? The head coach got fired. The man got fired after what? 18 years? Yeah. I don't know. We'll see. I don't know. Who know what was going on there? Boy, I'm so hot right now. Boy, I see you. Bro, this is what happened. Did your AC work again? Listen, listen, bro. I told you. I'm living on a budget, bro. So the heat, it got warm around here. so it take a minute for the air to you know to get going because old system you know old system so when I got home I turned the air on because it was 75 degrees in here bro then I got these lights shining on that's crazy you know what I'm saying it's probably 80 in here right now I'm up here yeah you sweating bullets sweating bullets bro my man said look even and then Debo too like Lamar not to just Lamar the field goal bro I'm so hot right now Lucky I ain't got no taco meat busted out, bro.

28:41What do you say now, baby?

28:42James Harrison:I was saying that even like Lamar, the one, they just missed the field goal at the end of the game. Like, all that. That's not his bad. That's like three of them joints. That's three games. I mean, they could have won. He did everything he could have did. Ew. I understand what you're saying. Yeah, but I will go with if you sit back and you strategize correctly, the thing is to make him have to pass the ball to beat you and don't let him escape and get extra yards up outside the pocket. Yes, rush lanes. Contain rush lanes. Keep them in there for sure. Because once he escapes, that's when you're going to really just mess your whole squad up.

29:26And that's if. if you can contain him.

29:30James Harrison:That's what I'm saying. But he's also getting older. He is getting older. Slow down a little bit. Just got to start sliding. You say, hell, just close to the end of last year, the whole last part of the season, I'm like, yo, that's something where he would have normally got out on it. Yeah, yeah, no. Yeah, he was moving a little bit, a little tick slower. It was a little tick slower. Well, you got a little You feeling good though, Debo? You straight? I'm feeling great, baby. I just got through working out I'm still running I'm still getting high from the workout, too That's what it is, too. That's what I'm saying.

30:07James Harrison:Oh, you had to let me know you got that working Woo Oh, yeah, you're going to be I had a hat sitting high right now, baby Say They was talking about Have we ever figured out quarterbacks? They were talking about Lamar Jackson, have you got figured out I think sometimes, too, though it's the offensive scheme if the defense if you got them figured out if you got them behind the sticks if you got them playing you know what I'm saying behind the sticks then there's nothing really they could do so I feel like sometimes just depending on how the defense is playing I think when you say figure it out though it's like this person's set of skills we have figured out I got you okay they're affecting it because we know what they do well and what they don't do well it's It's a lot different than, okay, we got you in a backed-up situation.

30:59Man, if I get Tom Brady in the third and 20, it's going to be fun. You know what I'm saying? So that's a little different than when we figured him out or they figured him out. Maybe they figured him out to a certain extent. I really feel like we have, you know, Steelers, as a team, as a staff, as far as how to approach and play him. It's just that, you know, I don't know what happened when we get into the playoffs. Things get, it got real ugly. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

31:29James Harrison:Like, it's the way, as you said, it's the five rushers. Don't let him escape the pocket because when he runs, that's the thing. We would rather have him pass than run. And there's no disrespect because it's just legs are special. Yeah. If you can't get him to break from their actual programming of run, run, run, run, pass, and that run, pass option, that's just killing people. And it doesn't hurt, too, when you got King Henry. When you start really running the ball on people, that's... Once they start running it, it just opens up. Opens up the play action, open up everything. But, again, you know, they ain't about to pass him the ball.

32:20So, that's really one less person you got to cover in the pass game. Go ahead, get run heavy on that. Run heavy with Lamar and figure out everything else from there.

32:30James Harrison:Yeah.

32:33James Harrison:Bruh. What's good, coach? Bruh, you sweating bullets. You got that good workout. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. Woo. This man, D-bone on the sled. Well, look, I'm going to go ahead and shout out to Roy McIlroy that won the Masters. Shout out Roy. I thought he was going to lose it. Scotty Scheffler, this is random. We're getting on it. Scotty Scheffler is my favorite golfer right now. Down on Saturday by 12 strokes. Almost came back and won it. That would have been unbelievable. Shout out to Roy for winning his second gold jacket in a row.

33:15James Harrison:not gold jacket, green jacket. Green jacket, Joe, even I know that. My bad, my bad. I was just, the gold jacket got me, so I was thinking about Hall of Fame. Roy McIlroy, back-to-back masters. Roy McIlroy, is it El Roy? No, Roy McIlroy.

33:36James Harrison:Oh, I think I see we might have somebody. All right, people. My good man. A dude. My good friend, Joe's. Yes, sir. Who he say he made fumble. We're going to talk about that. Oh, wait a minute. See, dang it. Huh? Huh? You say what you say? You say Joe? My, I see his left. Hey. Nope. Look here. Hey, ladies and gentlemen, he was drafted in 2005. First round pick for the Pissball. This is Julian Edelman from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules. All right, real quick. Take a look at yourself right now. Why? What's wrong? Nothing's wrong. You look like a guy running on three hours of sleep and vibes.

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38:09What's up, fellas? How we doing today? Doing good, brother. He welcome. Welcome. How you doing, baby? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Hey, you guys are doing great on this show. I enjoy seeing the clips. I appreciate it. You guys are doing a great job. Appreciate it. What you got behind you, man? It looks like you got two trees and you got to blur it out real good. Yeah, I got a mess back there, so it's all blurred out.

38:34I did the best I could on short notice.

38:36James Harrison:No, I feel it, brother. It looks perfect. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Where you at? Down in, you in VA too, right? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yes. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I'm in Northern Virginia. I'm in Northern Virginia. I'm by Tyson's Corner. Okay. All right. I'm a couple hours away. I saw you on the tip of Virginia. Well, I grew up, yeah. that's where I grew up down in Southwest Virginia. So, but now we live in Charlottesville, Virginia. Okay. A couple, just a couple hours from you. Oh, not bad. No, we got to link up for sure. You golf? No. Okay. I was about to say, you look like a golfer. I might be Devo, but that's about it.

39:15Yeah. He could be me for sure. There ain't, there ain't, there ain't no feet. That's not, that's not even that. Hell, I could probably lose to like a little kid.

39:26James Harrison:Yeah. Yeah, Debo. Debo's too much muscles, too many muscles. My golf game is seriously hot garbage, brother. Seriously hot garbage. But, Todd, I wanted to ask you something first because, you know, I see you went to UVA, and did you went there as a quarterback and ended up switching positions? Yep. How did that go? I went to UVA as a quarterback. I committed to – the coach's name was George Welsh at the time. Okay. And when I committed, they said, you know, we want to bring you in as a quarterback. and other schools that wanted me to do different positions, but I thought let's give quarterback a try.

40:03Coach Welsh retired before I got there. So then Al Grove took over.

40:08James Harrison:Yes. And I stayed at quarterback for like a month or two.

40:16I was there. I'll say this. I was there long enough for me to know I was never going to get on the field at quarterback. That's all I needed to know. So then they were like, hey, Heath, you're a big body. why don't you try scout, you know, fill it on the scout team. We only got a couple of tight ends. You get some reps and help us out there. So I did that. And then like a month later, they're like, hey, Heath, why don't you actually go to the meetings with the tight ends? Just, you know, just so you know what you're doing. And then after that season, I kind of knew what it should be and fully transitioned to tight end and the rest is history.

40:51James Harrison:Oh, no, it all worked out perfectly. That's good stuff. I love that. Yeah. Joe, were you a quarterback too? No. You play quarterback at the Lord. Exactly. I played quarterback all through high school. I thought I was going to go. I saw you play defensive back, too. You were second team. Defensive. I was like, what? Are you playing safety or corner? Safety. Safety. Safety. Okay, see, Todd. Look, me and you, we, you know what I'm saying? We're on the athletes over here. We played where the athletes play. Where the athletes play. Yes. Debo, did you play quarterback, too, in high school? I played quarterback, too, in high school.

41:22No, Debo. Hell no. Did you play quarterback, too? No. No, bro, I wasn't no quarterback, man. I played running back and linebacker. I'm running through.

41:33James Harrison:No, for sure. You didn't play the athlete position, right, Joe? No, not at all. I did that same thing, Todd. Quarterbacks, where I played at, all they did was hand the ball to me. Oh, okay. See, nah, I was giving you a thing. We was play-action-passing Debo, Todd. That's what we was doing. Yeah. Nah, nah. See, we was doing triple option and all that, you know. So quarterback ain't – hell, I don't know if he – well, he passed a little bit. When – yeah, when I realized how hard it was to call the plays and send guys in motion and then remember what to say for the snap count, I said this might be too much for me.

42:10I can't do this.

42:11James Harrison:Could you throw? Could you actually throw the Rocky? He broke records in high school. A little bit. A little bit. Man, Todd, don't do that. I was – Devo, I was the – Why is you calling him Todd, man? His name is Heath. Heath.

42:27hey man take off that half Steelers jersey man you don't get out of here man that's Heath man no with the Steelers after um after Hines left I was the emergency quarterback like if we only dressed two quarterbacks then I was the number three guy oh okay so I would get one rep yeah Yeah. Every week I would get one rep on Friday. It would be a handoff to the right usually.

43:01Bruh, you came in what, 2005? Yeah. 2005, 2005. Oh, you got two of them things too, dude. Yes, he does. Yeah. What stands out to you when you think back to those Super Bowl runs? Like, you know, what did those teams have in common versus what, you know, what it looked like towards the end? I think probably just the camaraderie and maybe the selflessness as a whole team. Like we were truly a team and nobody really cared who got the credit. And in both cases, we got hot at the end of the year. And I think once we got into the playoffs both years, there was a feeling that maybe we all had that. I don't think anybody can beat us if we play our game.

43:47and even the last year that we lost in the Super Bowl to Green Bay, you kind of get that feeling like nobody's going to stop us. I guess that's why that one was just hard to swallow because we came up a little bit short. Yeah. But, no, the camaraderie and I think, you know, true teams because especially later, I think offensively, we had some teams that were loaded with talent. Maybe defensively we were better earlier on, But, you know, we had some some talented guys that I played with later in my career, but we just didn't couldn't get it going at the right time for whatever reason. Yeah. Yeah.

44:24Like especially, you know, like I said, when you go back to like those, you know, that basically all the way up until like that five to 12 range, something like that, two to 12 range, 2002 to 12 range. Like, dude, it was you damn near spent more time with guys, you know, on the team outside than you did your family. You know what I'm saying? It was like, OK, we go do this over here. We go do that over there. And everything was kind of like, you know, mixed together with watching film, eating, celebrating, playing some cards, doing this and that, getting body work, getting treatment, all that other stuff.

45:01Well, for us on the defensive side, I don't know how y 'all did it on the offensive side. But for us, like it was, you know, everything was just mushed and mixed together. So. Yeah. And you guys, you know, I'm an offensive player. We were a defensive led team through all those years. I mean, we had one of the best defenses in the league. And as offensive guys, we knew that. And we were every day in practice was harder than the game. You know, when you got to the game on Sundays after you practice or you go to the training camp against those guys.

45:32James Harrison:That's good on good. Yeah. So when we got through training camp, we knew we were prepared for any defense, anything a defense could throw at us, and it was going to be easier than what we had just faced. So it's just like that whole iron sharpening iron. And, you know, and the defense being the best group on the team, the way they cared about each other, the selflessness they played with, that trickled down to the whole team. And offensively, we had guys like Hines who was throwing his body around. Oh, yeah. No job small. I mean, when your best players play like that, everybody else just falls in line.

46:08And I think that made for some special teams back in the day. Speaking of opponents, who was the most difficult for you to block? Who was it that you went against that was, you know, hard to block? Because you was a good you was a good, real good, you know, blocking. Great block and could catch the ball. Oh, guys who gave me the most trouble. I mean, we played Terrell Suggs a lot in Baltimore twice a year, most times three times a year. He gave me a lot of trouble because he could do he wasn't he could do anything. He could be with speed. He was a massive dude. So he was strong and powerful. And he was also savvy, like above the neck.

46:48He wasn't going to do the same thing and play cookie cutter within the defense every snap. Like he could, you know, he knew our he knew formations. He could call out plays. Even if he was supposed to have contain and the ball's running away, he might dip you inside. So he's giving you a different look every time, which made, you know, I like to be prepared above the neck. I feel like that helped me, but he was a little bit unorthodox where you didn't really know what he was going to do based on their alignment. And when you combine that with all of his talent and physical skills, he was a problem for sure.

47:21Yeah.

47:22James Harrison:So, look, this is the thing, too. You and Big Ben Ben said that you were his favorite receiver of all time, which makes complete sense because you were always on the same page. Was that something that you, like, gradually just started working on, or did it take time, or was that something like y 'all instantly just, you knew, you kind of, like, felt like you knew where he wanted you to be and you knew where he wanted you to be? I think maybe it took a little bit of time, but a lot of it was just natural, I think, the fact that maybe where I did play quarterback before. Yeah, that makes sense. And I don't know.

47:54I grew up playing a ton of sports. So I think Ben grew up playing a ton of sports as well. So we just had that kind of a natural knack and feel for how to play the game, whether it be basketball or whatever. We just kind of played off of each other. And there was a lot of unspoken stuff. I wish I could say we could we spent hours in the film room or hours on the field. But look, that was just kind of a natural thing that worked together.

48:19James Harrison:No, for sure. And I think really because I like you said, being on the offensive side of the ball, playing quarterback and just kind of feeling you play all different type of sports, basketball, baseball, saw that. So just being natural and kind of knowing you. The feel of the game is kind of the same when you like you did. You did a quarterback, too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, you have your route on a piece of paper that you go up and you make a turn left at 12 yards. But it don't always, you know, Joe, in covering, it don't always look like that when you go to the field. And you got to play with it and know the zone and the defense and how to work to get open and when to get open and understand what the quarterback's going through before he might get to you in the progression.

48:59So it all works together. And I think that, you know, Ben was a lot of fun to play with in that regard because it was always you never knew how the play was going to turn out and you would make it his own. I love that. For sure. Compared to early Ben, when you first got there, 2005, 2006, 2007, to 2014, 15 Ben, what would you say was the greatest progression of him developing into big men? I think it's just probably just the natural ownership of the offense. When we first got there, or when I first got there early in your career, James, our offensive line was, and we had the bus, we had Deuce Staley, We then had Willie Parker.

49:41So we were a running team behind Alan Fanica, Marvell Smith, a lot of guys up front. Kendall Simmons, all those guys, Big Max, Jeff Hardings. I think three of those guys were in the Pro Bowl. When I walked down the hall, like the first time in the building, and they had the Pro Bowl picture up there, it was like almost the whole offensive line. Yeah. Jerome, Hines. I think it was like four. Yeah, mighty. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot of dudes on that line. So, and Ben was a young quarterback. So, obviously, we ran the ball a lot. We play action pass. I think some games we throw it like 15, 20 times a game, and we might win by three or four touchdowns.

50:19Yeah. But then, you know, as we progress, then, you know, Ben gained more ownership of the offense, rightfully so. And, you know, he's changing protections at the line. He's calling plays at the line. And, you know, they're kind of giving him the reins and the keys to the car, so to speak. And then they surrounded him with a lot of weapons as well. So it was fun to see that progression. Oh, yeah, definitely. Like, you know, just me, you know, being there since 2002 and just watching, I'm like, yo, like, you know, like you said, we were early in his career. If we had a point where if we had more than I think it was like 18 or 20 passes from him, we lost like anything below like 18.

51:01it was like 80 something percent you know win whatever it was but as you said like as he got better had a better understanding of you know what he's looking at and grabs for the offense you know it just it just flowed through especially you know with him being able to put the ball wherever he you know really wanted to and you know extending with his place I think a lot of people don't realize that when he was young and he was extending with his place it was more of he might have had a chance to get a pass in there sooner, but he just didn't have time to get to that part. So he extended the play and that's where it was the, Oh, we in backyard football defense is break down a spot pass.

51:39And that was great for him. Yeah. He could use his athleticism. And then going back, I just thought like we were talking about the team things, we were a defensive team. So the fact that if on offensive, if we could run the ball and eat the clock and keep our defense fresh and on the sidelines or when they were, when they did take the field to get after the quarterback and to bring their pressure packages and stuff. And they were fresh. It was, it was really, it was complimentary football at its best. And you know, that's the way we played. And then obviously as Ben got older, he became our best player on the team.

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