In short
Tracy McGrady discusses Jalen Brown’s frustration with the Boston Celtics organization after a second-round playoff exit, framing it as a “gap year” where Brown felt slighted despite being a top player. The panel also debates NBA overrated/underrated players from The Athletic’s anonymous poll, speculates about Rajon Rondo as a potential Pelicans head coach, and discusses a Knicks report offering Timothée Chalamet a contract.
Key claims
Brown’s frustration is tied to internal issues and Celtics leadership responses; he said this was his favorite year because critics doubted Boston and he wanted to prove himself. The panel argues Brown is underrated, while the most overrated/underrated picks include Alperen Şengün (overrated) and Jalen Johnson/Derek White (underrated).
Notable examples
Celtics “gap year” narrative; comparisons to Olympic minutes/roles; Rondo’s intelligence and championship pedigree; Pelicans coaching finalists list (Rondo, Darvin Ham, Steve Heisel, Shane Sweeney).
Guests
Tracy McGrady (NBA Finals MVP, mentor/friend of Jalen Brown). Other voices are the show’s hosts/panelists (unnamed in transcript).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOJalen Brown's Frustration with Celtics
0:45 to 2:42
Discussion on Tracy McGrady's insights about Jalen Brown's dissatisfaction with the Boston Celtics.
“um you've seen a different side of me and what I I'm able to bring to the game of basketball so So all that stuff, you know, I think just came into play with him and his frustration.”
Understanding Jalen Brown's Perspective
2:42 to 7:04
Exploration of Jalen Brown's feelings about his season and team dynamics within the Celtics.
“If they peeing like that down there, I'm coming down there with some rain shoes on.”
Political Dynamics in Team Selection
7:04 to 11:13
Analysis of the political factors affecting player selection for the USA Olympic team, specifically Jalen Brown's absence.
“There was Kevin Durant, there's Steph Curry, and there's LeBron James.”
NBA Overrated and Underrated Players Poll
11:13 to 13:16
The hosts discuss The Athletic's NBA poll results on overrated and underrated players, including surprising choices.
“you had Devin Booker, you had Ant-Man you had Tyrese Halliburton and you had Holiday I think we got everybody.”
Underrated and Overrated Players Discussion
14:00 to 15:00
The hosts discuss who they believe are the most underrated and overrated players in the NBA.
“followed by Rudy Gobert, Trey Young, and Kat.”
Jalen Brown and Derek White Analysis
15:00 to 16:00
The conversation dives into Jalen Brown's underrated status and Derek White's performance.
“But shooting the basketball, he didn't have the year he'd had before.”
Trae Young's Impact and Criticism
16:00 to 18:00
The panel discusses Trae Young's strengths and weaknesses as a player, especially defensively.
“and it was just one day day I was like, damn, you must be in ownership.”
Defensive Struggles of Top Players
18:00 to 21:00
The hosts explore the defensive challenges faced by star players like Luka Dončić and James Harden.
“Is that, I think, look, it's, I don't know.”
Historical Context of NBA Defense
21:00 to 23:20
A discussion on how defensive capabilities of current players compare to historical greats.
“We've never seen, I can't recall Brandon, you came in the league way, way back and maybe they were.”
The Balance of Offense and Defense in Basketball
23:20 to 28:00
The hosts debate the importance of balancing offensive skills with defensive responsibilities in basketball.
“and then the solos are going to go to another level.”
Show all 20 chapters
Jokic's Skills and Historical Comparisons
28:00 to 29:00
Discussion about Jokic's skills compared to historical centers in the NBA.
“And the problem is, is that there are really no centers to give Yoko a problem.”
Childhood Memories of Fish
29:00 to 30:20
Lighthearted conversation about types of fish eaten growing up and family cooking.
“Which was, because I heard somebody say this.”
Rajon Rondo's Coaching Potential
30:20 to 32:00
Exploration of Rajon Rondo's qualifications and potential as a head coach.
“What'd be looking at the supermarket going, what is that?”
Respect and Coach Dynamics in the NBA
32:00 to 34:00
Discussion on player-coach respect and the challenges of modern coaching.
“Players are going to do what they want to do.”
Rondo's Championship Experience
34:00 to 38:00
Debate on Rondo's experience compared to other coaches and the respect factor.
“Okay, I thought he played with Hall of Famers.”
Cultural Shifts in Professional Sports
38:00 to 41:40
Conversations about changing norms in sports culture and coaching practices.
“that challenged players and coaches coming in.”
Public Perception and Personal Lives of Coaches
41:40 to 42:06
Analysis of how personal relationships of coaches are viewed by the public.
“If you got a wife and nobody has ever seen her and you're out with somebody else, people are going to naturally assume that's his wife.”
Understanding the Celebrity Lifestyle
42:06 to 45:43
The hosts explore the normalization of celebrity scandals and public perception.
“And I'm thinking back to myself, I'm like - It's normal.”
The Impact of Technology on Relationships
45:43 to 49:50
Discussion on how technology has changed relationships and public scrutiny in the NBA.
“Like it's hard to throw a fastball at me and I'm like bro I done seen this movie before.”
Navigating Financial Challenges
49:50 to 50:14
The hosts share insights on the financial implications of celebrity relationships and divorces.
“I'll just go down to Tootsies and get my money way down there.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Shannon Sharpe:Tracy McGrady, a mentor and friend of Jalen Brown, spoke on his podcast about Jalen Brown's frustration with the Boston Celtics. Let's take a listen to what Tracy had to say. His frustration lies deeply within the organization and other things that we don't really have details to. It's just been a lot of stuff, you know, that I've been hearing just going on with the Boston organization, with JB. you know so I think part of him is like I showed you guys more of who I am as a basketball player not only just you know what I did on the basketball court but the leadership that I displayed within you know this team and and you've seen that um not having our you know best player in JT um you've seen a different side of me and what I I'm able to bring to the game of basketball so So all that stuff, you know, I think just came into play with him and his frustration.
1:01However,
1:06Shannon Sharpe:I am. Hey, before we go, Joe, Brad, before we get your thoughts, JB responded. I hate that our president of basketball operation even had to respond to this. Me and Brad have a great relationship. I love Boston. If it was up to me, I could play here for the next 10 years. He added that this was his favorite year of his career. Red, what's really going on? Now think about it. This man has won an NBA championship, finals MVP. He's been to another finals where he was the Larry Bird winner. Now this year he get put out in the second round, and he said this was his favorite year. What's going on, Red?
1:42Shannon Sharpe:What's really going on, Red? Well, here's the thing. They had asked him that before the playoffs, about what kind of year. This is before Jalen Brown, before Tatum ever came back. They asked him, they said, what do you think about this year? He said, it's my favorite year because people had put the Celtics down. Think about it. This was a gap year for the Celtics. They weren't even supposed to be playing. So I think that that's why I think he enjoyed it so much, the fact that he was able to put this in everybody's face. And people, and I got to understand this, Joe, the Celtics pissed me off, but they gave me$350 million?
2:20You know what? Piss on me all the time if you want to. I don't care. Come on, give me an umbrella, okay? Ocho, Ocho, give me a damn umbrella, okay? If they peeing like that, I see them. Ocho, you always talk about that club down in that place down in Miami, wherever it is, Tootsie's or wherever it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If they peeing like that down there, I'm coming down there with some rain shoes on. You pissed off about what? I ain't pissed off. I'm good.
2:52Shannon Sharpe:Hey, look, I think we all could agree that he's been underrated. You got to think about it. They took two of his former teammates. They said, but he fit better. Those guys, we don't have no offense. They understood that unless it's a layup or a wide open three, we're not running plays. We had veteran guys, and they played the same. Basically, JT and JB played the same position as LeBron, Kevin Durant, and I guess you could say Anthony Davis. And so he's like, hold on, wait a damn minute. I don't care. I don't care. You got to be able to find a role for me on something as a finals MVP. And you took two guys that ain't been to finals MVP, Excuse me, gentlemen.
3:42Who ran that team? Wasn't that Nike that ran that team? And what happened? He didn't like what happened with Kyrie Irving. He also has his own shoe. So you ain't going in there in somebody else's kitchen and start talking a lot of noise, and you think that Nike is about to bring you on that team? People cannot look at it if they want to, but you're a fool if you think that Nike didn't have something to do with Jalen Brown. not being on that team. And that is for sure it can be. Because Jalen Brown has his own shoe. When Kyrie Irving got kicked off that Nike squad, he was pissed off about that.
4:24He was very vocal. And what do you think Nike said about that? You think Nike's going to say, hey, you know what? We're going to bring you on the Olympic team. Hell to the no. Hell to the no.
4:37Chad Johnson:Joe, I agree, man. I think, you know, with JB having his own shoe, his own endorsement, Nike wasn't going for it because there is no way you mean to tell me he can have three of his damn teammates on the USA team and he don't make it. Yeah. That just didn't make no sense to me. It made sense to you, Joe. Stop. It made sense. Well, yeah, it made sense, but that's what we talk about. when we talk about politics in the game. Oh, yeah. That's what people be talking about, bro. You know what I mean? Because he would have fit to the tee. Now that Jason Tatum really didn't get to play, I don't know if they wanted to bring on another forward because you already got KD and LeBron.
5:26Chad Johnson:So, here, whoever playing behind them, you're going to play limited minutes. Y 'all got to understand, these are 10-minute quarters. These ain't 12-minute quarters. Right. So, that's an extra, what, eight minutes that guys, this is only a 40-minute game. So I think a lot came to play in that. But I also think it put JB in a position to where he wanted to prove everybody wrong. Which is why he said this was his best year.
5:50Shannon Sharpe:And I think JT probably said, hell, y 'all could have left me at home if y 'all were going to play me no more than this. All I did was take that long-ass trip over there to be sitting on the damn bench. And I'm a three-time All-NBA selection. I'm a former Larry Bird Eastern Conference MVP. And y 'all got me sitting on the bench. And when I did get in the game, I didn't play for like two, three minutes. Well, you got to admit that Tatum didn't play well. He didn't play well. And because of that, if you're Steve Kerr, Steve Kerr was playing for one thing. That was for the gold medal. I don't give a damn what this other guy did or what your record was.
6:29You can put that on the background. We're playing for a gold medal. He got the gold medal. If he had played Tatum, and Tatum had talked about that. He said, Tatum said, I didn't play well. I didn't play well. So sometimes you have to sit there and cheer for other guys. So I think that's kind of what happened, you know, why he didn't play. But that whole thing about JB and who he was and how he feels, yeah, he feels like slighted because he's one of the top ten players in the NBA this year. But those things happen when you play on the team.
7:04Shannon Sharpe:Yeah, they made it abundantly clear. There are three guys. There was Kevin Durant, there's Steph Curry, and there's LeBron James. If y 'all want to come, we're going to put y 'all in here right now. Everybody else, you got to come audition. If you're an actor, you got to come to the table read. Other than that, you want to be in the movie? You got it. And it's hard to argue. Look at the way KD played. Look at the way LeBron played. Look at the way Steph played. Can we argue? about their playing time, considering what Steph did in the finals against the France team, what LeBron and KD did against the Serbian team.
7:44Shannon Sharpe:I mean, who did they play? Was that South Sudan that had the team down and LeBron goes crazy? I mean, it's hard. Shannon, you bring up a great point. You start talking about movies. if you're in the movie with Denzel how many damn lines do you think you're about to get? Other than hello? Just pray you don't get killed in the first scene. No, you don't. All these great actors? No, you don't. There's only a little bit of time for you to be in. And I play with great players like Larry Bird and Kevin McKeown and Robert Parrish and those guys. Your window of opportunity is a real, real small. When you get that opportunity, when Steve Kerr put him in the game, Tatum had to play well because you had already those reliable guys, as you said, who were sitting there waiting just to play.
8:42But you ain't getting a bunch of lines when you're in there with Denzel. He made that movie. He said that part about Godzilla. Ain't nobody else going to say nothing. What you going to say after that?
8:51Chad Johnson:Yeah. When you think about it, LeBron, Steph Curry, and Durant, their games complement one another. That's why LeBron was able to play that Magic Johnson role, that facilitating role, because those guys are too deadly in shooting and scoring the damn ball. He understood that. You know what I mean? And they game complemented each other so well, and I think everybody wanted to see that. I mean, it was unbelievable to see, and I agree with y 'all. I didn't think Tatum played great, and I just think playing behind LeBron and Durant in a 40-minute ball game, bro, your minutes gonna be hella limited.
9:28Chad Johnson:And plus, they were losing.
9:30Shannon Sharpe:I mean, think about it. They were down to Serbia, Brad and God. They were down to Serbia, what, 16, 18 points? And the French team was right there on their ass. So what? You know what? We got Jason Tatum. He was a three-time All-NBA selection. Even though the French team or the Serbian team has got us, you know what? We gotta make sure everybody get their minutes. Bro, this ain't the NBA All-Star game. In the NBA All-Star game, you make sure everybody get their minutes. Everybody to go get by 10 minutes until the game get close. And if you ain't got your 10 minutes by the time the game get close, oh, to hell with you.
10:00Shannon Sharpe:In this situation right here, and because, like you said, LeBron was playing out of his mind. KD was playing out of his mind. Steph was playing out of his mind. And they needed a big. Jason Tatum, was he going to come in and guard Wimby? Was he going to come in and guard Rudy Gobert? Was he going to guard Jokic? Well, here's the beauty about all this. Jason Tatum's going to have another turn at the Olympics. So don't worry about him. and he can't get down on himself. But here's the question, and you just mentioned it. Would Jalen Brown be on the Olympic team coming up? I'm waiting for him, y 'all.
10:34I'm waiting for him. Come on, Osho. You're going to be on the Olympic team. Robin, I can be honest, too, about it. I mean, if you weren't on the last one and you've had some political issues, obviously, you know, the rift that you have with Nike, if Nike has anything to do with it in 2028, I mean, control what you can control. you're probably not going to be on there either I'm just being honest and then you look at the spots you look at the spots that were taken you got your main four, you got Kevin Durant you had Steph, you had LeBron and who was the fourth?
11:06Shannon Sharpe:they had Jordan B they had Bam and they had Anthony Davis and so then you had LeBron you had KD, you had Steph you had Devin Booker, you had Ant-Man you had
11:20Chad Johnson:Tyrese Halliburton and you had Holiday I think we got everybody. Woo, woo, woo. But think about this. Think about this. You got some players that were the focal point and the really go-to guys when you were losing. They might not be playing in 28. So that might leave room for JV.
11:39Shannon Sharpe:Steph and LeBron not going to be there. KD says, hey, if I'm still playing at this level, I would love the opportunity to be there. Hey, I know a guy that's just a rookie that played well against the U.S. men's team, and when he was going to college, Cooper Flagg, I think there's a great chance he'd be on there, Brad.
11:55Chad Johnson:Ant-Man is going to be on that team. He's a – Cooper Flagg is a dookie, and he's a Nike guy. Yeah. No, he's a New Balance guy. He's a New Balance guy. But Grant Hill is a dookie. Yeah, he's going to be on there. Damn. You know, especially, Joe, I wouldn't understand why be upset, especially when it comes to certain things you can't control. When you play the game long enough, as long as JB's played, I mean, your finals MVP, you know, one-year ring, you've been paid handsomely, you know, for what you do. I mean, why would you even care? Because, man, I'm a competitor.
12:33Shannon Sharpe:I ain't going all the way over there to sit on a damn bit.
12:36Chad Johnson:And Ocho, Ocho, Ocho, I'm arguably the best player on my team, and you mean, Tim, you can take three guys off my squad and neither one of them is me? Hey, you know where that come from. That come from the high ups. you know that you understand that you know the game they play hey I'm doing my part I grew up watching USA basketball you know what I mean like I want to play for the USA team damn well you know them people don't care nothing about that at all somebody get me down the twisties okay I just want to go out there hey come on hey Brett come on you done mentioned it about two times already hey Brett hey Brett Hey, I remember all of them.
13:21Joe, I'm 70 years old. Damn tootsies, they won't let me in now. Magic City. You done been to Magic City, though. What? Hey, Britt. You done been to Magic City, but you told me what? You heard exactly what I said, Britt. I was younger then. I was younger. I love the chicken wings. They ain't got nothing. It's still the same. It's still in the same location. It sure is. They just got a better kitchen.
13:48Ain't nothing changed.
13:50Shannon Sharpe:Hey, let me know what y 'all guys think about this. The Athletic just released their anonymous NBA overrated underrated NBA poll. The most overrated player with 12.3 % of the votes is Apren Shungun, followed by Rudy Gobert, Trey Young, and Kat. The most underrated player is a tie between Jalen Johnson, Derek White, followed by Jalen Brown, and True Holiday. Any surprise, Brad, are you surprised by Shungun, Gobert, Trey Young and Cat being the most overrated, while the most underrated is Jalen Johnson, Derek White, Ty, followed by Jalen Brown. Jalen Brown, I definitely put him in there as the most underrated.
14:32Shang-Goon, I like Shang-Goon though. Shang-Goon plays hard, man. And, you know, he ain't no jumper, but he gonna get you points, he gonna battle, he gonna give you elbows. I love watching him play. So I'm not sure about the overrated player that I would put him in. But, you know, Derek White. And Derek White, you think about Derek White for the Celtics. And I was around that. Derek White didn't really have a good year this year, not shooting the basketball. He defended really well. But shooting the basketball, he didn't have the year he'd had before. So underrated, I'm not sure where you go with that.
15:08I mean, I look at a guy like Cooper Flagg or, you know what, I think Knipple to me is a guy, to me, is overrated. when I think about him playing for Charlotte. Although he knocked down a bunch of threes, I don't know if he could guard my grandma right now.
15:24Chad Johnson:Hey, when it comes to underrated, I'll definitely say – I'll probably say Jalen Johnson. I just think as a young player, he still has some room to grow, especially when it comes to playing in the postseason. That was a great experience for him. This was for real his first time playing in the postseason, and I think he would definitely be better. The overrated thing. Are you on the ownership group down there in Atlanta? Because that damn you done told me. I done heard a couple things you done said tonight. And I like him as a player but when you said the Hawks didn't give up and it was just one day day I was like, damn, you must be in ownership.
16:06You got to have part of that team for something.
16:08Chad Johnson:He got a little something. I'm telling you what I see. This is what I see. And with the overrated, I think Trae Young gets slack, fellas. Obviously, we know he's somewhat of a liability defensively, but the way he makes guys around him better, this is why I say, damn, I hope Washington give it a run with AD and Trae Young in Washington so Trae can kind of prove a lot of these critics wrong. I think he's a hell of a player. Yeah, he's a smaller guard who don't play defense for real. But I think in today's game and scoring the basketball and making guys around you better, I think he does it with the best of them.
16:50Shannon Sharpe:He can go to the All-Star game with Clint Capella. He damn sure should be on the first team all in the NBA with Anthony Davis. Ocho, what do you think? Who do you think is overrated and underrated? Hey, man, honestly, individually, I don't really know the individuals that well based on what they've done. obviously this season to be able to give a fair assessment on who's overrated and who's underrated or not. You guys have a better knowledge of the game than I do. They say can't. They say can't overrated. Man, you know, that's bullshit. You know that's bullshit. Hey, listen to me. I thought he didn't have a knowledge of the game.
17:26Yeah, I thought he didn't know nothing about that. Hey, listen. That's bull jab based on the last series and what he doing these first two games right now against the Sixers. And I told you what he was going to do. I told you what he was going to do. Outside of that, yeah. I was talking to my friends today and telling them I was coming on this show. And I started mimicking Ocho. I said, the goddamn man, let me tell you what he did over here. He didn't do a goddamn thing. Ocho gonna hit him like that. And the dude said, yep, that's Ocho. He gonna hit him like that. He gonna hit him.
18:05Shannon Sharpe:I think the thing was Shingun. Is that, I think, look, it's, I don't know. Maybe it's because he had Kevin Durant. But just two years ago, the guy was in the NBA All-Star game. The guy was, what, averaged 22, 23 points a game. Doubled, I think he did. Hold on, didn't he make it this year?
18:22Chad Johnson:He didn't make the All-Star game this year? Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Luca. Luca. Luca.
18:33Shannon Sharpe:The thing is, but, if it's hard, and the thing is, he played, He might play worse defense than anybody that made this list. But he's so prolific at putting the ball in the basket, O 'Brien. People go over. You know that. People go over. I got it. But I'm just saying that's how they got. That's how he got moved when he was from Dallas. Because he was so bad against the Celtics during the championship that Dallas said, no, no, we ain't going to go that way. And I think he's an unbelievably great offensive player. But if you can't slow people down defensively, in this league anymore, it takes away from your greatness as an offensive player.
19:14Shannon Sharpe:I think the thing is all you have to do is that you look at a clutch situation and they always put him in the pick and roll. His whole thing since he's been in the league, we're going at him. Whoever he's guarding, you get the ball and you go at him. That is embarrassing. You can't allow that to happen. Y 'all know what I think of Luka because he's one of my favorite players. And I saw from a very, very early on, I said he's special. But his defense, and sometimes I don't even think he tries. Because he compromised. Because you know, Brad and Joe, guys, y 'all know, once you get broken down, your entire defense is compromised.
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19:54Shannon Sharpe:Because somebody's got to come help. You're taught, hey, you see somebody help drowning, you got to go save him. The guy goes by Luka, somebody's got to come. wide open, back door cut, all because Luka got beat.
20:10Chad Johnson:Yeah.
20:10Shannon Sharpe:So it ain't going to get no better. He ain't going to get no better. You don't get better at something as you get older because, like I said, you got to try when you young. If you ain't trying when you young, you know damn well, Brent, as you get older and older, get harder and harder to move.
20:25Chad Johnson:Yeah.
20:26Shannon Sharpe:You really going to see if it.
20:27Chad Johnson:Yeah. Hey, I agree with you. I think with Luka, man, it ain't just Luka because it's AR at times too. When you're getting beat off the first move, fellas, and we got to bring help and that compromises our defense to where now we're in a huckabuck to where we either got to give up a dunk or a wide open three, hell, you're always going to be trailing. That's the problem that you have. So I agree that you got to take the initiative to at least stop the first or the second move.
20:55Shannon Sharpe:Just stop the first. Just don't get beat on the first move. Just don't get a Look, I'm not saying The guy come back with another one Just don't get beat on the first one And then we good from there We said the same thing about Harden Y 'all remember when Harden put on Yeah, that's true We said the exact same thing About James Harden And there have been some great offensive players But we have never seen it so lopsided Where the guy was so great offensively like Harden and Luka. It was so horrible defensively. We've never seen, I can't recall Brandon, you came in the league way, way back and maybe they were.
21:38Shannon Sharpe:I don't know how George Gerber played defense. I don't know how David Thompson played defense. Some of you scored Bergdahl, King, a lot of you. But if you go back and look at say in the last 25 years, we've never had a guy, even the last 30 years, we've never had a guy that played this good. Jokic is another one. We talk about these offensive guys. And sometimes I like bro. I mean, that's why I think I have to give so much credit to LeBron James. Because he, especially them first, whatever, 20 years, 15 years. He was one of the top defenders. And one of the top offensive players. And then I think about Jordan.
22:19Same way that he played now. Think about Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant that would try to dog you on the defensive end. I heard Chef Studio say, you know, he said, Kobe came over to me and said, Coach, at the Olympics, I want to guard the toughest guy every night. How many superstars step up like that? I know when I played, for my years, I was averaging about 20 points a game my second year in the league, Joe. And we got Larry Bird. The coach came over to me and said, you know what? Every night I want you to guard the toughest man. I'm like, shit, I'm a lover. I ain't no damn fighter. but you know you know that you have to sacrifice doing other things as a teammate but the way Kobe used to play man that was and LeBron and you know Jordan that to me that's the the hallmark and you know who wants who said they're going to be like that look at Jalen Brown like that but Ant-Man said he wants to be like that is he like that though and that's the only way that and then the solos are going to go to another level.
23:24Chad Johnson:Yeah, because those guys, they have to put the same amount of effort in defensively that they do offensively. And when you got guys who love to compete like that, especially your best players, your star players, that makes you a much better basketball team, fellas.
23:39Shannon Sharpe:But if you look at – you mentioned something about the Olympic team. What did Devin Booker say? Devin Booker say, I ain't got to shoot no shots. I play defense. I lock in. Ant-Man, locked in. Derrick White, lock in. Holiday, lock in Sometimes when you're on a ticket And it's just hard because you've gotten so much credit For being offensively driven And so now It's just hard Ocho, it's like we see these great running backs But then when it comes pass protection Like bro, that's your guy You got at least I try to, I ain't saying look I'm not saying you got to be Larry Allen Rest his soul and stonewall the guy But damn, get this face On the offensive end They giving you 30, but they got giving you 28.
24:23Shannon Sharpe:Bro, you ain't doing nothing. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Let me understand. Oh, Joe, who was the best defense, I mean, offensive running back blocker that you ever seen? Best blocker? That protected the quarterback. That he ran it, and he also protected his man. Probably what? Maybe Adrian Peterson? Okay. Okay. Okay. Clinton Portis and Ezekiel Elliott. Clinton Portis, the best guy that I played with of all the backs was Clinton Portis. He would unload. I mean, hey, he's selling out. He's selling out. And that's what you got to have. What you do, you got to close the distance, Brad. You close the distance to give him a one-way go.
25:17Shannon Sharpe:Because if you get that guy and let him do all of this, He going to catch you set light. He going to run right over the top of you. So now I'm going to meet you in the A or the B gap. You got to come through me to get through the quarterback. And now. Did you, did you, Ocho, ever play against a guy that I love the, gosh. I played with Green Bay. And he was the D. Did you ever play against him? I played against him. I played against him when he was in the middle. You ever have to block him then because he told me, he said, he said, Korns, he said, some of these guys, he said, they got to do better.
25:54And he was a religious man. So he wasn't cursing, but I just, but did you go against him?
26:01Shannon Sharpe:I blocked him a couple of times, but he didn't know I was going to block him. So I quick said him. Oh, I was never, Hey, don't you back up because if you back up, he know he go, you're going to block him. He's going to throw you right into the quarterback. I quick said him. I said, hey, look, you got about three seconds. Because he don't know I'm going to block him. He think I'm going out for a pass. Hey, tackle, I need your help inside now. Hey, he don't get around the edge, but if you, hey. But no, hey, that was, he had football strength. Now, I don't know what type of numbers that he put up in the weight room.
26:35Chad Johnson:Yeah.
26:36Shannon Sharpe:But that was, hey, Brad, all he did was have tape. He had some little white tape, athletic tape around his wrist and no gloves.
26:43Chad Johnson:What? He went to his goal?
26:47Shannon Sharpe:None.
26:48Chad Johnson:He going to put them hands on you. Yeah.
26:51Shannon Sharpe:I played against him when he was at his absolute apex when he was in Philly. Lord have mercy. Hey, you know what I'm curious? I mean, what you said about Luka and what you said about Jokic, right? Both of them being liabilities on defense. Yes. Being so good offensively. So would you rather take away what they're able to do offensively just so they're able to play defense? Wouldn't that take away what makes them special offensively if they were good on defense? Because you said it would make their teams better if they played defense. But here's the thing, Ocho. We said just be good. We didn't say be great.
27:33Shannon Sharpe:That's awful. I mean, I ain't say you said good. We ain't say be like LeBron. We're not saying be like Kobe. We're not saying be like Jordan. We're not saying be like Elijah Watt or David Robinson. We say just be good. How about this here? Be average. Can you give us average? Because all three of those guys are below average defenders. Yeah. You guys are bad. And the problem is, is that there are really no centers to give Yoko a problem. The only center that can give him a problem is Joel Embiid. And when Joel Embiid plays him, he gives him a problem. But if Jokic is just as skilled as he is right now, and he had to go against David Robinson, he had to go against Shaq, he had to go against Akeem, he had to go against Patrick Ewing, they would cook his ass on the offensive end.
28:26Chad Johnson:Yeah, you're right. He had some problems dealing with them people. See, that's back in the day when you used to have real beef. Now we ain't got to like two of them in the NBA. Exactly. I mean, essentially, Shannon, what you're saying right now is when those guys play, it's like your grandma when she was cooking fish, huh? You just, damn, she frying it there. Yep. All you hear is shh. Hey, hey. That's all you hear. That's it. That's it. Yeah. That's crazy. That's what it is. How about your grandma? Did you guys have the good fish, or were you just eating spots and mullets? Which was, because I heard somebody say this.
29:04You see, there you go. You know, hey, first of all, you ain't getting no good fish. Good fish when we were growing up was whiting, was mullet, was croaker, was shad, was brim, was perch, and some catfish. Bro, you ain't getting no sea bass. I know. I know.
29:22Shannon Sharpe:You ain't nothing about sea bass, no Arctic char, no salmon. You got salmon croquette, but they came in a can. You know damn well your mama, your grandma bred. Ain't got no fish out the store unless it was whiting or mullet or croaker. That was it. Wait a minute, not the salmon croquettes out the can. No, don't say that. Not that salmon, please don't say that. You still got the water coming out of the oven, you got the little - Yeah, exactly. Man, you wouldn't get - I'd never, like I said, you might, they might, you know, you might get some whiting or you might get some croaker or some mullet, but that was it.
30:01Shannon Sharpe:Everything else you caught, you caught catfish. You caught perch, you caught bream. That's what you ate. You ain't getting no fish like you see all that fish lined up. You go to Whole Foods or you go to King's Super Bar or something. You're like, damn, look at all that fish. Hell, I ain't even know they had so damn many fish in the world until I got grown and could go to the supermarket by damn self. What is that? What'd be looking at the supermarket going, what is that? What kind of fish is that? What kind of fish is that? You know, they got black group ones. They got all kinds. They got char.
30:33I said, huh? And they got it all laid out looking all good for you. Yeah, yeah. Oh, man. You guys are funny. Damn.
30:45Shannon Sharpe:The Pelicans have had a head coaching battle listing their finalists as Rajon Rondo, Darvin Hamm, Nets assistant Steve Heisel, and Spurs associate head coach Shane Sweeney. Joe
31:02Shannon Sharpe:if J.J. Reddick can get a head coaching job of the Lakers with no prior coaching experience I mean you mean to tell me Rondo is what Rondo can't get no good I mean
31:16Chad Johnson:and I think you need to give some of these former guys a chance as a head coach even without experience because we've seen guys who come into this league and have great success, you know, without any coaching experience. And I think Rayjean Rondo, I think most importantly from a coach standpoint, bro, you want a guy who your players are going to respect.
31:41Shannon Sharpe:Correct.
31:42Chad Johnson:You know, who they're going to respect because if they respect him here, they'll play hard for him.
31:46Shannon Sharpe:They'll play hard for him.
31:46Chad Johnson:You know what I mean? And I think Rondo, you know, he'll be a guy who won't take a lot of ish. You know what I mean? But, Joe, how can you not take a lot of ish in this league now? Because players make too much money. Players are going to do what they want to do. I happen to love Rondo. I think that Rondo would be good. He's very intelligent. He's been around enough. He really ran the Boston Celtics offense. Even when Doc Rivers gave him a play, Doc, he would say, no, Doc, we ain't running that. We run something else. But so I love Rondo as a player. to be combative. Wasn't he the one that, but didn't he also was the one that spit in Chris Paul's face?
32:31Didn't that happen? Or am I messing up? Yeah.
32:35Chad Johnson:He got some nastiness to him, but you need that, Britt? I love Ronda. I mean, I would love for him because if you think about all the guys who've gotten head coaching jobs over the years, you think about, yeah, they've always had to have experience, but if he's no he didn't nope Steve Nash was coaching his damn girls over there damn I was like you know all of a sudden you bought him in for NBA and Steve Nash Coach Kyrie and what you call him Kyrie and KD you remember though what Kyrie said though Kyrie said we don't need no coach anyway we'll be in the court. That's already screwed up. Ocho, that's already you coming into something where your main player said, we don't need no coach anyway.
33:32What are you saying about me?
33:35Chad Johnson:Hey, but think about it, though. Rondo is a proven champion. He's played with Hall of Famers, bro. So, yeah, I know he knows what it takes, you know, to win in that league. And if he can get guys to follow what he's trying to lead, I think, man, he can have a great sense. Didn't Steve Nash play with Hall of Famers?
33:58Chad Johnson:He wasn't a proven champion, though. Okay, I thought he played with Hall of Famers.
34:02Shannon Sharpe:I think, you know what I think, guys? I think the fact is it's different now, Brad. It's different now, Joe. Because these guys, there used to be a healthy level of respect for coaches. I'm not so sure guys have that same level of respect. No. Your superstar is going to do what they want to do. And you've got to just accept it.
34:19Chad Johnson:It just depends on who you are, though. Yeah, it depends on the coach, too. Yeah, it depends on the coach. Now, you know as players, you know your head coach, whether you can kind of brush that shit off he talking, or you got a head coach, you know you need to be taking heed to what the hell he's saying. That's all I'm saying. I think Rondo will be respectful. Let's tell you what, you bring that same kind of energy to a guy like Joe Mazzullo. Damn it, you about to give him the damn fight. Because Joe Mazzullo didn't take any shit at all. And that I did love about Joe. And I think that's why the Celtics were so good this year, especially during the regular season, because he got all those guys to play hard.
34:58At the end of the day, talent supersedes anything in the playoffs. So if you have a team that plays hard for 82 games, you're going to win more than your share of games. Yeah. What you think, Ocho? You like Rondo? Man, hell yeah. goddamn you got to understand rondo not only not just a champion right you talk about a player that's respected all around the league from every player from all teams you know and then you got to think about his iq this ain't just no average player we talk about getting a coaching job now jj reddick was good you know but he wasn't no goddamn rondo and i mean that no disrespectful way that's someone that can come into but with the pelicans hey Brad wasn't Pat Riley an analyst?
35:45absolutely radio analyst radio analyst came in came in and they had fired Paul Westhead
35:53Shannon Sharpe:Paul Westhead won the first championship and then him and Magic started butting heads and then Magic talked to Dr. Buss and Dr. Buss said just hold on I got you
36:06Hey, when you roll, when you call those names out like that, are those people that have already put their name in the hat for an opportunity to coach those teams? Or is that just speculation? I think... Go ahead, Brad, what do you want to say? No, I think you're right. I think that Shannon said it best. She said those names are kind of in the hopper right now. I think that Rondo, to me, could be that coach. and the thing they're going to have to do too is overlook some of the things that might have happened to him in the past. And that was, he had a domestic violence thing that came in with him.
36:43People don't forget stuff like that. I love Rondell, but this is a new league right now. There's certain things that you can't do in this league that you used to be able to do back in the year when I was, during the time I played. When I was playing, man, it was smoking cigarettes in the locker room drinking. This was during the game. That's a...
37:06Shannon Sharpe:I told you that. When I got to the league, guys would be outside at halftime smoking.
37:12Chad Johnson:Hey, Brad, I seen because I watched the last dance and MJ said that guys were smoking cigarettes at halftime. Said he was getting them from the coach. That's that. Look, my first game ever, I was sitting there and I smelled cigarette smoke in the locker room. And I looked over and Joe Joe White was smoking a cigarette. I wanted to tell the head coach, I looked up at the board and Tommy Heisen was smoking a cigarette. I was like, oh, we might want to be in the street right now. They might want to go ahead and pop a beer real quick. Why don't somebody give me a beer? So I think it's a different time, it's a different era, which has come into play.
37:54And I love Rondo. I hope that they're able to get past those things that he did before that challenged players and coaches coming in. Yeah. Hey, I want to go to a better situation too, man. Because going there, man, your leash is over.
38:14Shannon Sharpe:Man, you got to take what you can get, Ocho. Nah, you already know. You already know. Where do coaches go? Hold on. You know you ain't going to be that long, man. I can't help you. Do you want a job? No. No, because I know I'm not going to be that long. You go over to the Pelicans, how long are you going to last? What, two, three years, if that? Look, I want to be the head of Goldman Sachs or J.P. Morgan, but you know what? I got to go to this regional bank, okay? Matter of fact, right about now, I wouldn't mind going over to J.P. Morgan. Yeah, exactly. But right now, that's what I can get. We talked about this.
38:47Shannon Sharpe:What they normally get? You get to go to Arizona. You get to go to the Jets. you get to go to places where you know everybody ain't going to get a Mike Tomlin situation oh you're right you're going to the Jets you're going to Arizona get one year was anything going to happen because you guys are football people and I got to ask both of you what's going to happen up here with Drable up in Boston in New England Lord have mercy I sure hope you wasn't asking that question I said, damn, my ho, we should have briefed you, Brad, talking about you can't ask that. Ho, Joe, we should have told Brad, we should have gave Brad a list of things, and he can't ask.
39:29Listen, it's not the first, right? Brad, it's not the first, and it won't be the last. It happens all the time.
39:39Shannon Sharpe:What happened is people are looking at it, and they say, well, Shannon, what about Sharon Moore in Michigan? What about Imay in Boston? I say, guys, those are subordinates. Miss Rossini is not an employee of the Patriots. Mike Vrabel is not an employee of the Athletic. In that situation, it's different. So I get it. It's morally wrong. Both are married. They're going to have to deal with that with their spouses. but now hey maybe it gets so hot that mr crab doesn't have a choice but if the reports are true he tried to catch and kill the story so he knew about it before the world knew about it well the thing about there were pictures he said that i wasn't involved with this woman But then they went back and found pictures about six or seven years ago.
40:42And he was kissing this woman at the bar. So, I mean, that to me. And I'm not saying, you know, I'm definitely not saying he should be fired or anything like that. But our society right now is really kind of different. When we talk about stepping on toes and all this stuff. and he told the story saying well you know you guys are crazy if you think it was a story well you can't say that kind of stuff if it was a story but see here's the thing because of your coach and your wife is really not visible if they were out in public you would think okay he's married she's married that's the couple you don't know mike brables you people probably have never
41:30Shannon Sharpe:seen his wife. Now the likelihood, guess what? They're in different locations. They're not in New York. They're not in New England. So ain't nobody for the wiser. Ain't nobody know. Well, we know now. How about this? We know now. If you got a wife and nobody has ever seen her and you're out with somebody else, people are going to naturally assume that's his wife. Yeah. And so now, guess what we get this out you know what i saw them in the casino one time i saw them in a bar as a matter of fact let me go let me go through my let me go through my my phone log let me see a photo see i got a picture of him too hey you know what and another part i think maybe because i've been with joe i mean bread you you as well we've been in a in a lifestyle so much where we seen so many, so many situations, so many cases, even some that weren't made public or we know about it behind closed doors, but we've seen situations like this so much, like so often over the years, it's like to others, you know, the regular folk are like, oh my God, look what's going on.
42:47This needs to be talked about. And I'm thinking back to myself, I'm like -
42:51Chad Johnson:It's normal. It's normal. Like in that world, like y 'all going crazy and acting like I'm like, and to me, I have to reset and I have to think like, okay, you know what? They're not used to this. They're not used to seeing this. And they use the words, what about, you know, morals and integrity? I'm like, oh, my goodness. I just wish you were a part of this world for just a year, you know? and I mean like it's different and I think it's hard for for people on the outside that aren't in that lifestyle I don't live in that world to where it's like it's I'm I'm almost numb to it because I see it all the time all the time that's like I mean I got in trouble for for cursing at somebody about like why did y 'all talk about this on on nightcap right here the huge story and I'm like, what the fuck?
43:38No, it's not. This shit happens all the time. Brad, you know what, Brad? I had to remember, like... Brad, go ahead. Go ahead. I'll finish. I had to think, like, I had to reset and remember, like, okay, everybody doesn't live in that world to kind of understand it. So, like, I get it now, in a sense.
43:57Shannon Sharpe:And the thing is, Brad, you know when you was in the league, and when I got into the league, reporters would see things, and it never got out you and the I just saw your wife because the reporters were hanging with you and they were doing some of the same things you were doing they tried to get you
44:23but Ocho can say Ocho can say right now that he's numb to it but our world has changed from when we were in the league at one time it's not like it was when you we were all in the league even joe who's been more recently than us the the fact that the world has changed so much the nba the standards all the stuff around it it's easier now to get women and all those things that happen but at the same time you would oh a lot more aren't you joe this situation it's a it's easier for your ass to
45:01Chad Johnson:get caught too with all these phones everybody got this right here yeah you go this was this this was the greatest invention yeah the worst invention at the same time and the point more relationships right hold on a phone and that email and this is this this is this hey this is hey this is the funny thing about it too um you think about technology right and how and how far advanced we've come with with cameras everywhere and camera phones and everybody having to phone out is all the things that are happening happening today they've been going on for years they were happening before we were here they were happy my grandma was here it's just the fact that everything is magnified now because of technology because of social media so nothing is new and just being brought to light at a much more higher rate that's it yeah everything changed i remember joe i remember joe johnson said something to me and i i love this i'm yeah joe i'm putting stepping on your toes a little bit i remember when you got to brooklyn and i saw you at the game one time you're like man I ain't never seen so many damn pretty women in my life in damn New York City I said you in Atlanta Joe said man he said New York City is on a whole nother level and you are playing with damn Brooklyn you are playing with damn the Knicks hey man New York different bro I was telling Ocho that but you know it's just I think it's just because we're we have access to so much and we've seen so much you know the good, the bad, the ugly that nothing really surprises us bro.
46:36Chad Johnson:Like it's hard to throw a fastball at me and I'm like bro I done seen this movie before. You know what I mean? But it's like now when you think your ass low you ain't low. Somebody see your ass. Ain't no down low no more. Hell no.
46:58Shannon Sharpe:I see people all the time. I just pretend, hey, how you doing? Nice to meet you. I'm like, no, no, no.
47:08Hey, how you doing? It's nice to see you. I ain't never seen you before in my life, but it's nice to see you. But here's the thing I think was really different about it was, and I was single at the time, but I didn't know that women invested in men the way we invested in them until I got traded to another team. Then I found out about her. I thought she was with it. No, she was with it. But she was with it. You find out when you go to another team, it's all of a sudden, damn. These women are working this thing. Now, even more so when I think about the money and how big it is and all this stuff, I'm just flabbergasted.
47:53I look at the, who is your guy that's, his wife is an actor and his wife is an actress and she got all that money. He's a former basketball player, played with the Knicks. Yeah, he played with the Knicks, he played with Cleveland also. He had to give his, his wife is famous right now. What's her name? You're talking about Tristan? No, he's talking about Tristan Thompson. I'm talking about his wife right now is doing all these movies. He's on ESPN. Got real dark lips. You know who I'm talking about. Iman Shufford. Iman Shufford. The money he had to give up to his wife. Ex-wife, yeah. Yes, ex. Well, the money he had to give up, I don't give a damn what the ex is.
48:41That wasn't the damn thing. The money he had to give up, he gave up four houses. What woman need four damn houses? I'm sorry. I might not be on the show ever again, but I'm preaching this thing right now. I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. Brad go get up. Brad go get up, man. Come on, man. Come on, man.
49:04Chad Johnson:Come on. Hey, like Martin say on Thin Line Between Love, hey, she broke me down to my damn brain pad on the damn police station. Hey, hey. I don't understand. I don't understand it. And I know we're in the era where we see players and we see and celebrities cross together. But when I see some of the finances now, it's like it's like Ant-Man gave his baby mama, gave her a million dollars. And she wanted to come back and say, no, no, no, no, no, home. She ain't give me enough. He signed a new contract. I'm like, damn, what is going on in this world? It's a scary. It's a scary. We're in scary times, man, for real.
49:48Chad Johnson:we really in scary times, bro. You got to really be careful. I think you should just go. I'll just go down to Tootsies and get my money way down there. I'm good.
50:00Shannon Sharpe:All right. All right, Brad. When we catch you, we can't. Hey, we going to pretend like we don't see you. I pretend like the coach used to tell us. If you see us out, you don't know me and I don't know you. Who is that? I don't know who that is. All right.
From the publisher
Shannon Sharpe, Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson, Iso Joe Johnson and Cedric Maxwell react to rumors of Jaylen Brown being frustrated with Celtics, Rajon Rondo finalist for Pelicans Head Coach and Knicks offer Timothee Chalamet contract
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0:00 - Tracy McGrady talks about Jaylen Brown’s frustration with the Celtics
13:50 - The Athletic just released their NBA Overrated/Underrated Player poll
30:44 - Pelicans have a head coaching battle
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