Brandon Novak on Viva La Bam, Becoming Homeless, Addicted for 20 Years, Getting Sober & More

34:17If you know, I can do it. You can type deal. But so, but the book after that was the streets of Baltimore. And that really talks about the psychology of where I was at throughout this time of evil of am, because although I legit had the keys to the castle, right. I'm living a life that people would fucking dream of. It was a really sad, depressing time because I knew that it was only a matter of time before I fucking burnt this bridge to the ground. Well, it's interesting you wrote this book before you recovered in any sense. Normally you write the book once you're sober, right? Dude, I wrote that first book, Dream Seller, about sniffing an abundance of cocaine and drinking red wine.

34:57Wow. Yeah. Jack Kerouac shit. Totally. But did it in any way motivate you to get clean? I feel like having such a serious project that took so much time might have gave you a little bit more structure in your life, or no, these two things just went side by side? Quite the contrary, right? Because I'm living with Bam. He wasn't allowed. Like I was not allowed. Everyone knew that I was not allowed to do opiates, which I really wanted. So I couldn't go back to Baltimore. People were like eyes on me. But writing that book was very therapeutic in a way that allowed me to go back and do that without doing it.

35:31So in a sick, perverse way, it took me to where I really wanted to be at the time, which was shooting dope in Baltimore, as opposed to like being on this number one fucking TV show. and this beautiful blessing that bam has fucking provided for me at that time where was bam at in his alcohol addiction he's he's just kind of doing his deal right like he's going through the gamut of like becoming that guy yeah number one like again right guard commercial wheaties come out wheaties box like yeah so with that it's inevitable that the the limelight of the hollywood kind of socialite life shows up that's a lot of pressure right there yeah all of a sudden you're like actually one of the most famous people your age in America I mean that's that's that's a big load to carry yeah I couldn't even imagine it yeah and I you know I was with him throughout the majority of that and uh fuck it's heavy yeah it's heavy but at the time we didn't see it I didn't see it that obviously he felt something different than what I saw yeah but um I'm sure there were the pressure was high the stakes were heavy right um and you know i don't really want to talk about like where his downfall or what his shortcomings were um i think that's that's his job to do but um what i can say now is that he's like fucking killing it he's doing great right now but is he sober right now i don't know okay he's skating and he's killing it yes and um and he's consistent and he's happy yeah and uh he's got like a really good girl in his life that's awesome and he's just like he's enjoying life from what i can tell and kind of taken back to that kid i remember that just fell in love with skateboarding and nothing else mattered yeah that's awesome to see so hell yeah so okay when does the viva la bam era kind of come to a close or i don't even remember when like how that timeline played out it just that then went into the jackass stuff and the movie Yeah.

37:29And I didn't have anything to do with the TV shows and I wasn't in the first jackass, but I was in two and 2.5 and three and 3.5. And, um, and that was an amazing time as well. And, but again, it just, for me, it continued to just prolong the inevitable, uh, and just kind of, uh, uh, allowed me to procrastinate avoiding, uh, or dealing with, with my situation at hand. For sure. So during that whole era, though, you're just continuing to. Was it primarily a heroin thing? Yeah, but like it was obviously I had to continue this momentum. So it was whatever I could do. Yeah. I loved red wine. Cocaine was amazing.

38:13Like that worked to fill the void until I could get to like what I'm really in search of. right do you ever become a pill guy or once you're a heroin guy is the pills the pills are kind of not as good yeah i mean the pills are just kind of like uh an appetizer at that point really if you will it's it's there it's it's not what i'd buy or i'm in search of but let's kill some time but so during this whole era do you go back to skateboarding at all or it's completely over until you get sober yeah i do a little bit of skating like um you know bam had a show uh uh bam's unholy union where he marries his wife and and they build this crazy ramp and hawk comes in and i i try to do this this rainbow gap and i'm not skating at all and i use bam's board and his shoes and i and i get to 12 o 'clock on it and i just come straight down and i break both my ankles which most of and this was on the last day of filming so most are like fuck i'm stoked right They take me to the hospital and now I have tons of scripts and it was on the last day of shooting.

39:19So now I get workman's comp. So I'm just laid up in my house with a stack of scripts and I'm getting like fucking three or four grand a month, like every couple of weeks to just fucking. Holy shit. Can't walk. I'm going to Cobb Dove in the hood and, and I remember one day I fucking lost my crutches and it's snowing out and I'm dragging. on my ass like pushing myself up that like i legit learned what it was like to have no feet i mean just imagine that visual but them just saying like hey here's enough money for you to live on and here's a ton of free pills every month like what the fuck like that would turn a lot of people into drug addicts that are not drug addicts so i was really fucked yeah and you know if you think about it again and life is all just kind of live forward and learn backwards so seeing it for what it is now that that whole position i was put in and and uh character i played was a junkie's dream yeah right like the more outrageous i became the more outlandish the antics are the higher the ratings go the more money i make the more dope i shoot wow so that's like fuck yeah yeah and i had some of the best times of my life during that uh and and throughout it literally um you know it's weird because my life was like skateboarding skateboarding skateboarding then heroin and and and like homeless like prostituting my body letting men fucking blow me like my mother bought me a plot like things got really dark holy shit that's some serious shit to be open about.

40:57Yeah. Like it got there. Yeah. And, and I'm very upfront about that. And I, I keep my past married to my present. Do you feel like you have to be a hundred percent transparent about the lowest lows that you experienced in order to like really let people know how this goes? Not even to let people know, not about letting people know, but, but keeping me like in reality. Cause otherwise you could be painting a fake version of your experience. and not, I guess, wouldn't feel true to yourself? That, but also understanding the magnitude of alcoholism and addiction for me, the better my life gets, the more I'll forget that pain that put me in that position to ask for help and follow through with it over 10 years ago.

41:40Right? Because my life is extremely different today. Yeah. Right? Like, I have all the things that I wanted when I came into recovery and I prayed to God for. I have the money, the property, the prestige, the businesses, you know, best shape I've ever been in physically, mentally, psychologically, spiritually, financially. I'm aces. And my alcoholism can use that against me. I'd be like, well, you know, you're in bed by nine. You're totally involved with recovery. You own treatment centers. You own houses. You know, you could have a drink with this$1 ,000 dinner tonight of wine, you know, because you're well-versed.

42:19And that will play, you know, it's, it's, I'm more susceptible to falling victim to that kind of shit today than I was when I was 20 days sober sitting in a rehab, like, fuck, am I going to make it? Yeah. Cause a lot of it is like, you just have to be uncomfortable to even want to get sober in the first place. What year is it? And what had to happen in order for you to actually take sobriety serious? And how many times you go to rehab over the years? 13 inpatient attempts. Wow. Lost count of outpatients. Was it people in your life? like like bam or like the producers or whatever was it them a lot of times saying like hey like we want you to be a better version of yourself so we're going to try to initiate this yeah in the beginning the first handful of treatment centers i went to it was only to prove why i didn't fucking belong in those places okay right um completely closed-minded close-hearted refusing to accept the similarities and after i saw those people as my father right so i'm like fuck you like you want to send me to a building full of my fathers who like lied to us, who like totally abused us in a lot of different ways.

43:23And, and, and, and, and the reason why I did so good at everything I ventured into was to prove a point why I would never become that fucking bum of a father right now. I've completely accepted him and I love him. And I, I, I wish that he was alive for me to tell him that, but at the time, that's how I looked at that. So I went in there like proving a point why I didn't belong and I would only focus on the differences. Okay. So the, the, did you ever feel like any of them, like really, do you ever get sober for like a nice chunk of time? Never. No, really. Even with all the Rios. Never. Yeah. Like I would go in the only time I stayed sober was this very last time.

43:58So I would go in and sometimes very sincere and, and, and really give it my all, but I refuse to like not be able to drink wine. Right. Like I'll stop shooting dope and Coke. I I get that that brings me to my knees and I'll stay away from the pills and the methadone. And like, I get it, but I'm not an alcoholic, right? And I don't shake when I don't have it. I don't steal to get it. I'm not in need of it. And that would continuously happen. And the behavioral pattern would just show up and I'd end up in the same outcome. So finally, you know, my sponsor at the end, he came to visit me. I had a hard time saying, yeah, I'm Brandon.

44:34I'm an alcoholic. Cause I didn't think that I was. And he goes, you know, that you're different. at the bottom of your wine glass is a needle every time and i'm like and i look back at the experience to that point motherfucking right because i i drink and then i i gotta do blow and then i get tired after a while i need some xanax to kind of landing gear to this all sounds very familiar yeah that was like my average friday night for a few years there and then it became my average friday saturday and then thursday friday saturday the justifying line like it's cool to do it thursday and it's because drinking in and of itself seems like pretty cool when you're young or whatever and then you introduce coke and it's like oh now i get it this is how you stay out all night do it longer right the good time will never end yeah it was the bad combo you know for sure um and that continued to happen until like for me what happened was um i'm 38 years old um i'm a homeless heroin addict i want to fucking kill myself on a daily basis but i'm terrified to hurt myself in the process my days are spent fucking standing on the corner of eastern avenue patterson park in baltimore city letting men blow me for money to get dope my nights are spent sleeping in a shooting gallery in west baltimore my mother has bought me a plot um she she sold three homes to pay for me to go to two treatment centers i've been medevac to multiple hospitals for multiple overdoses i just came to after being on life support for seven days at the same hospital that my mother was a nuclear physicist at on the board right um and i had my last rights read to me while in icu and they were going to i was clinically dead so long that like it didn't look like i was going to make it through and as they were going to pull the plug my mother came in and used her weight with the position she held she said this is my son we come on like just give him a day give him give him a little more time and that's crazy and they fucking did and they gave me that time and i came to a couple days later only to fucking rip every tube out of my body you know the catheter i had the fucking nose i And I just, and I, you know, right back to it.

46:49And, um, and I got to this place where the, the pain became so unbearable that I wasn't in fear of addiction anymore. Like that was just par for the course. It was a Monday morning. I get it. Let's do it. Um, what scared me into recovery was, was, was the fear of waking up tomorrow and living in this life that I created for myself and doing things I don't want to do to get what I need to get. And at that point, anyone that stood between me and another bag of heroin must and will go. And it was never personal. It was just business because I was raised by a loving mother who taught me empathy and sympathy and compassion.

47:31But, but I'm at this point now where there's no return. And, uh, and the woman I love the most, which is my mother to this day, there's nothing I won't do for her. I got to a place where, where, where she said, this will be the last time we ever speak. So I'm 38 years old. I, I, I go try to go to my mother's house and, and, and, and the lock changed. That's a common theme in my story. The lock stopped working. Right. And, um, and, and, and I knock on the door and, and I see her come to the door and it's her and my, my hot shot brother. That's that attorney and DC at the white house. And, and, and she's crying uncontrollably.

48:11And she's crying. My brother's kind of helping her get to the door, and they open the door, and my brother hands me a bag. And in this bag is every fucking thing that I own in my life. At 38 years old, right, skating for POW, Viva La Bam, Jackass, a book, like insanely successful. At 38 years old, my brother hands me everything I own. And in this bag consists of eight scarves, two jackets, three socks, a stick of deodorant, a needle, a spoon, and a passport. And that bag doubles as my pillow. And at that moment, a police officer comes around the corner and he stops in front of my mother's house.

48:52He said, are you Mr. Novak? And I said, yes, I am. And he said, this is for you. And I opened it up and it's a restraining order. And he said, if I catch you on your mother's premises again, I will not be so fucking kind. and uh and it was at that moment i looked at my mother and uh and i said to her my words held no more weight at that point right like i didn't even believe the own fucking bullshit i said to myself and and i didn't try to talk myself out of it but i i did look at her and with all sincerity i said mom do you hate me and she said um she said no sweet i don't hate you but I will know I will no longer I cannot love you to death anymore you have to go and my brother's acting is like a a bouncer you know kind of enforcing because she was the woman that never fucking said no to me she oh she prayed for me when I didn't pray for myself she loved me when I didn't love myself she'd feed me she'd bathe me when I didn't do any of that for me and and and my brother had to to make her do what she didn't or would never have done and uh and I took that bag and I'm walking up the street and, and, and at 38 years old, in my mind, I wouldn't be anywhere in the world, but in reality, I don't have any direction to fucking go in.

50:06Right. No one's waiting for me at this point in my life. People believe for the safety of themselves that it's way best to love me from a distance. Yeah. Right. People aren't inviting me home or looking forward to me showing up. It's just like, fuck. Right. And that, that position created this, this, uh, a series of events take place. is too long for me to get into, but I get a DM from this chick who's in Florida. And she said, I read your book and it saved my life. And I could give a fuck less because I don't want mine right now. And she said, why don't you come stay with me? All exclusive paid.

50:40And did she know that you were still in a bad spot? So I said, sure, I'll come, but I need some Xanax, some dope, and some Coke. And she says, no problem. Right. And red flag number one, my book saved her life, but she's going to give me substances that kill mine. But I don't even give a fuck at this point. And I do a little bit more research and I find out she lives in a hotel. That's not a good look. And a little bit more research prevails. She's like a lady of the night or a dancer. Two things I have no problem with. I've seen me become both of them for like$10. But there's two requirements that I'm to fulfill when I touch down.

51:22She's paying for the flight. She's paying for the drugs. She wants to, she wants to, she wants to party and she wants to fuck. And now when I get there, I shoot dope. I sleep. I don't fuck. I don't party. So I know I'm going to wear my welcome out really quick. I do not want to go. I don't want to go. But I'm at this place in my addiction where I no longer have the say so of what I will or will not do. It tells me where to go and what to do. So before I begrudgingly go to BWI to get on this flight, I go to cop some dope from the boys. because I don't want to get sick on this flight. And when I go to cop, the boys rob me.

51:58Now, at this point, I have a very similar pair of slacks that I have on now that were nice if you overlook all the cigarette hole burns. I don't have underwear on. I have this button-up shirt on, and I have these, at one point in time, nice pair of Brooks Brothers shoes, but I had lost a shoestring along the way because I would use it to shoot up with. So when I go to cop, the boys see fit to rob me. And this is in Florida? In Baltimore. Baltimore. This is still in Baltimore. Before I'm about to board that flight to Fort Long. Oh, okay. Right. And, and when I, and when they rob me, they rip my front and my back pockets completely out.

52:30I have no wonder on my, my dick and my ass are completely exposed. They rip my shirt open. And the only button that stays button is this very top button. And I got these shoes on one shoestring. And now I'm like, I'm roaming the streets of West Baltimore looking like a gay East LA cholo gangbanger. Right. And, and all I have is eight scarves, two jackets, three socks to stick get deodorant right i don't have the ability to change clothing that's all i have yeah so i get to the airport because i'm on a tight timeline i gotta make this flight this broad bought me and when i get to the airport two things i've learned in my career is i will never win an argument with a judge or a tsa airport security agent like with the so i get there and and and and i was not clever enough to say you know what things are bad enough i'm gonna tap out right What happened is I had to be divinely inconvenienced in such a way where the God of my understanding showed up and created a big enough gap between me and the last speedball that I injected to my arm to allow me to have a moment of clarity to see what my life really looked like was.

53:34And this is where that happened. And it was all unbeknownst to me. Right. I had no clue. So I go to the airport and I get in line and I don't want to board this flight. I do not. It's like I'm a psychic and I can predict my future. And I know that if I get on this flight, things are going to fucking get real bad. Right. Living in a hotel with a stripper in Fort Lauderdale. I'm about to get in with some seedy people that I do not know how to operate. And I'm over my fucking head. So when she said the book changed her life or saved her life, she's just full of shit. Clearly. I mean, she's in this hotel room, like getting me my drugs to fly.

54:09Now, I never made it, so I don't know. Oh, OK. But what happens is I have that same outfit on. I can't change. Right. And the lady looks at me, she says, Mr. Novak, are you under the influence of anything? And I say, no, absolutely not. And she says, I believe you are. You will not fly for three days. Not like the next flight out tomorrow morning. Now, mind you, I did not. My heart was beating like I just shot 20 kilos of cocaine. I did not want to get on that flight. If I went on that flight, I knew that I'd probably end up in that plot that my mother bought me. It was serious. But my disease is like, I don't give a fuck what you feel, bitch.

54:44You'll get on this flight. Right. So, so I get out of that line and I call my sponsor and I said, Lex, I'm stranded at BWI airport and I want to kill myself. And he said, nah, you're going to get on a train. You're going to come back to Philly. And those people that I wanted no part of that I thought were just a big group of my fathers, you know, sober addicts and alcoholics Memorial day, 2015, they, they left their cookouts. They left their families, they left their homes and they, they came and they showed up for this this helpless hopeless alcoholic who couldn't draw a sober breath to save his life and they allowed me to stay with them that night and they took me back to the same facility i had been to four previous times out of my 13 overall attempts and i and they wouldn't give me new clothes right because my sponsor believes and you never get between an alcoholic and their bottom you let them feel the repercussions from their actions like you said earlier i don't get sober when shit's great, right?

55:42Like shit's gotta be fucked for me to like pay attention. So I walk into this detox looking like the gay East LA Cholo gangbanger and I'm doing my assessment. And prior to this date, every time I'd sit in, I'd sit with the same intake coordinator and she'd say, okay, Mr. Novak, your insurance will cover you for 90 days. And without foul, my rebuttal would be, in theory, 90 days sounds great, but in reality, I'm more of like a 45 day-ish kind of guy. I got people to see, women to fuck, places to go. And she'd laugh at me like that each and every time. And this day, Memorial Day 2015, I had finally been demoralized in just such a fashion from drugs and alcohol.

56:25I was beaten in that state of reasonableness. That when she gave me that offer without fail for the first time in my life, and thank God, I was beaten speechless by my disease. I couldn't even talk. Your insurance will cover you for 90 days. I couldn't come back with a counter offer. All I could do was shake my head yes. Because if I said no, it entailed an explanation. And I was that beaten. And she said, sweetheart, you're in no condition to do your intake. Get up to detox and I'll see you in a week. And I take my gay East LA cholo gangbanger outfit and the eight scarves and the fucking needle and the restraining order.

57:00And I walk up and there's this tech who's always there every time I check myself. And he said, Mr. Novak, you're back. And I said, aren't you a fucking genius, boy? You don't miss a beat, do you? He said, Mr. Novak, I hate to inform you, but your clothes are not rehab oriented. You need some underwear. You need some sweatpants. You need some slides. And I had heard those weird sober fucks say shit like a grateful alcoholic will never drink again. A grateful addict will never use again. And I didn't understand that until I started to understand it. And this is where that took place. He takes me in with him and he said, come with me downstairs to the donations room.

57:38And he goes and he opens up these boxes and he's thumbing through these boxes and he's looking for some used underwear. And I'm praying to God that he finds them. And he doesn't. But what he does find is a pair of size 40 women's sweatpants with no drawstring, a woman's tank top and a pair of size 13 Jesus sandals. And in that basement... Where things had gotten so bad, I had no idea they could go this low. Little did I know at that moment, my life was about to forever change and go in directions that I, as clever as I think I am, could never even fucking dream of. The first thing that happened was when this weird fucking boy's handing me clothes that aren't even meant for a man and shoes not meant for my foot.

58:25I came to the realization that what I do know is I have no fucking idea. and my very best thinking places me here. And the second thing that took place is when he handed me those clothes, I was overcome with a sense of willingness unlike anything a human has ever or will ever be able to provide, right? It had to come from this divine force. And what I know now, see, because I've remained sober long enough, consistently enough that it's very easy for me to look back and recognize every, the synchronicity of every one of life's events that have led me right here to talk to you. That proved to me the God of my understanding has been doing so much bigger and so much broader than my feeble fucking small mind could ever conceive of.

59:13And what happened was I had met the God of my understanding in the basement of that Catholic Charities Rehab that cost me$2 to get into face to face as a kid hands me women's clothes in the form of a gift of desperation. The pain had became so great that I turned it into my purpose. And I went upstairs and I got a shower. I got that Baltimore city smell off me. Never so excited to put women's clothing on in my fucking life. And I did what I had never done before. And I successfully completed that program. Really? Yeah. How many months? That was a 90 day program, three months in there. And then from there I went and I lived in a sober living house for one year.

59:52Really? Okay. My get well job was washing dishes for$6 an hour at Marianne's restaurant next to a 14-year-old kid. And I had heard about like humility, but it didn't make sense until it made sense. And I'm busting these suds for$6 an hour next to a 14-year-old kid after doing all this successful shit. My brain's telling me that at the very least I should be the president of the United States. really and uh and and little did i know looking back that that job was like one of the the main foundational blocks to who i've become today you mentioned this in other interviews i've seen to you where you had this sort of uh bizarre over sense of confidence like where you mentioned the president of the united states thing or like this was like something that you've kind of dealt with over the years is just having like delusions that you're great beyond what you actually are Like what is it?

1:00:46Well, that's the thing with alcoholics and addicts. And this is what I can say about everyone that exists that's out there sober or not today that we don't get here because we took the short bus to school. Quite the contrary. I get to where I'm at because I'm too smart for my own fucking good. And then I land in a position or a chair, whether it's in a 12 step meeting or a treatment center that has the ability to save my life. And I outthink myself right out of it because recovery is one of these things that works so well. I stopped doing it. I get back everything I wanted in abundance paired with this delusional alcoholic brain that lies to me.

1:01:22If I don't remain proactive in my recovery, then I'll fall victim to believing that things could be different this time. When you're washing dishes at this place and you inevitably have the urge to go get drugs and do drugs and live this life, you never even felt tempted? Nope. Really? And where that came from, right? The last thing I tried, the first thing that worked was the thing that they had been suggesting in every goddamn program I checked myself into was the 12 steps. The 12 steps, right? I had to have a spiritual experience. It had to come from a power greater than myself because logic doesn't stand a chance against my addiction.

1:02:01Do I know that I'm killing myself? Do I know that I'm destroying every relationship that I care about the most? Do I know that I'm pissing my career away? Fuck yeah, but I don't have a say so in this, right? Like, so, so I get in this place where I get into that work, not because I'm intelligent enough that like, this is it. I have a clear perspective on my reality and I'm going to change my life. Fuck no. I got there because, um, I had ran out of all options. There were no more opportunities, no more resources. Everyone, friends, family, loved ones, lovers said, get the fuck away from me. And, and I'm in this place where I had nothing but time.

1:02:35I had no distractions, nothing to divert me from my primary purpose. Right. which was to try to figure out how to it's easy to get sober I could never stay sober but that when you got clean that time what year was that that was 2015 okay and how long does it take for your mom to accept that you're not full of shit anymore um she on my one year anniversary right I had been to a treatment center years before and there was an anniversary in this treatment center meaning someone was celebrating a year and, and I'll never forget it. The kid's mother came and she sat on the front row and she, she put her hand up and shared about how proud she was of her son.

1:03:16And, and my, my mother is everything to me. And, um, and I literally had dreamt of having that experience while in addiction. All I wanted was just to make my mother proud and to know that like, she doesn't have to worry about her son anymore, but I never believed it was a reality. and on my one year anniversary, um, a terrible thing happened within my family that someone, uh, committed suicide and, um, some, someone in my family that swore they would never, ever speak to me again. And hadn't to that point, I started making the amends, right. And I started like writing my wrongs and I, and I'm living differently and, and it's pretty evident that things are changing, but this person, like they had hit that point where it's like, fuck you.

1:03:58And I get it. But on my one year anniversary, I was going back to celebrate that night in Philly. I was in Baltimore spending time with my mother. And this incident occurred where this family member took their life by suicide. And that person who swore they would never speak to me called me and said, where are you? I need you to bring mom to this house where they were at. The person had sent out this text, I'm sorry kind of text, and the family members rushed there. And when they rushed there, the person was hanging. And the police came, and the police refused to let the family members leave because it was an active crime scene.

1:04:40And I showed up with my mother, and I was able to convince the police to allow them to leave. And I cleaned up the damage that they caused by breaking the window out to get in the house. and I cleaned all this stuff up. And it was at that point through in the living amends that the barriers came down and my family really accepted me. And I have this letter framed in my house and I walk past it every day. My mother, I was supposed to celebrate that night. Obviously it didn't happen. So they postponed it. And the following week I celebrate it and my mother came and she sat in that front row and she read this letter that she handwritten and it said that no one was sure of what I would do because I had attempted to get sober for so long, but a tragic event took place.

1:05:33And for the first time, Brandon showed up as the son that I raised him to be. And, and, and he was there for the family members and he didn't want anything in return. And that's when we knew that something was different wow on my one year anniversary that happened holy shit that's serious man you know um wow i've never shared that story wow ever ever ever no i appreciate it that's that's crazy man that's i mean was it really like you had just shifted as a human because i i you know i feel like anything that you quit even like you know even when i think about like you know times where I've been like on a strict diet for like a long period of time.

1:06:17And then sometimes your brain just locks into ice cream mode and you just kind of like, it's like unthinking like trance that you sort of fall into where you actually go and eat the thing that you've been not eating for this long period of time. Is it, was there any like risk of that? Did it feel, were you scared of that? That like something was just going to take over you and this like lack of willpower was just going to have you falling back into it or had things really just shifted to the point where you just didn't have that same temptation? That is what happened and how that happened. Everything had shifted and my perspective of life changed and how that happened was I couldn't outthink myself out of addiction.

1:06:57That was evident, right? Again, logic doesn't stand a chance, but I got into those 12 steps, right? And the 12 steps allowed me to have a spiritual experience. The definition of a spiritual experience is simply a psychic change. So throughout that process and that journey I went on, I rewired my brain. So I, Brandon Novak today with over 10 years sober, no longer act, but more importantly, react to life the same way. So I completely look at things in a totally different manner. And the most important thing that happened is, and it talks about in our teachings, that it has to be a power. It has to come from a power greater than ourselves to lift us of the obsession or rid us of the desire to continue to want to drink or drug.

1:07:42Is your attitude like, you know, say there's a skate premiere. Yeah. You go to the skate premiere. It's at a bar. A lot of times there's a couple hundred dudes, almost all of which are drinking at the bar. Is your attitude like I'm going to avoid that because that's not a good place for me? Or is your attitude like I'm going to be in there and I'm strong enough that I'm not going to feel triggered by that? That's it. Right. Like I've, I've experienced this freedom unlike anything I've ever understood existed. I, I'm no longer a bondage of self or my addiction. And here's why, because I accept, I accept that I suffer with a disease called alcoholism, not alcoholism.

1:08:21So I can't stay sober on yesterday's sobriety. I do a few simple things along the way each day. and if I do what I did yesterday today I have a really fucking strong shot of seeing tomorrow sober so it's very simple and they taught me the shit in treatment if I stick to the basics I'll never have to go back to the basics so I do a handful of things on a daily basis um you know the upkeep right it's like you create a successful business it's not going to run if you don't do a checks and balances and look at the inventory and take stock of of what you have an abundance of that's selling like crazy or what's just sitting on the cell phone collecting dust so it's it's that it's just the general upkeep and and now what it all relies on is god like my higher power i'm as spiritual as they get do you believe in god throughout your addiction or is this something that kind of came into focus after it doesn't matter you know like i don't i don't have time to fucking wonder about god i pray to it like when when i'm going in the hole to cop and i don't want to get robbed or I don't want to get locked up or I don't want to be violated.

1:09:24So I find God in those tough positions, but you know, I got sober and I wasn't that guy. It's like, Oh fuck God. How could God do that to me? That paled in comparison to the fear that I felt of returning back to active addiction. So like, if you gave me, if I walked in that last treatment center and you gave me a knife and said, look, go fucking carve a swastika in your forehead and stand on your head naked it and jerk off for a week i'd be like point me to the spot right like i just knew that my way no longer worked and i needed direction from someone that was more versed in the subject that i fucking fell short in every time definitely um how do you what you said the mentors right who i walk with is what i do right definitely when do you uh because you get into a relationship at some point during this that kind of changes stuff significantly for you right in what regards with a woman no oh okay sorry we can take that out that's cool I thought that was part of it yeah no I mean I've I've uh that's the area that I'm the worst in really relationships okay I was just wondering like how that changed for you after sobriety yeah no I'm a I one of the issues that I have the biggest problem with is is is being vulnerable I can do it with a fucking room full of strangers I can give a talk to 10 ,000 people and tell you my dude is darkest secrets but like let me be a part of your unit and we do this thing called life together.

1:10:48I'm a 46 year old single man lives with three cats. Is that something you aspire to? Or do you think that you were just kind of built to be a soul? There's a few different ways I can look at this. And one could be, I'm just justifying the fucking shortcomings that I have. Cause I don't want to address a very uncomfortable situation or it's that I, I'm right in this regard. I am obsessively obsessed with what I do. Right. And, and because of that, I don't make my, uh, uh, I don't make for a very good partner. I don't run my schedule by people and, and I'm not considerate of their time or thinking.

1:11:29And that could completely change or it's just that I don't want to do the work that it takes to overcome my, my shortcomings. but here's another thing that happened. Um, I lacked self-esteem. Self-esteem was non-existent and I knew it. You told me that. And how could I have it? I'm like shooting dope. I'm stealing from people I love. I'm breaking people's heart. Like there's nothing good to feel about that. And, and, and, and so I come in and I lack self-esteem, but I start doing some esteemable shit that then gives me this sense of self-esteem. Then I get into that work, the 12 steps, which did for me what nothing else was ever able to do.

1:12:07And I start to fuck around and like myself. And then I start to like, love myself. And now I'm like, completely head over heels with who I am and where I'm at. And I don't really feel like I need someone to like validate the direction I'm headed or whatever it is. And that's a blessing. And it's a curse because I'm 46 years old. I'm blessed with an amazing career. I'm a boss. I can kind of create my schedule and, and I live in my own world and I can structure it as that. So it's really hard to let someone come in and fucking like move things around. I feel it. So, okay. By the time you get sober, you already have a book.

1:12:44Yeah. When do you decide like, you know what, it's time for another book now that I'm kind of on the other side of this. I wrote the second book, the streets of Baltimore while in treatment. Okay. And it wasn't, you know, my, my coauthor came to me and was like, dude, we really got to do this people were asking the first book dream seller was recently revised in its 12th okay i was thinking that too i'm like it's going to be kind of weird if you're putting this book out as if you're still in that stage yeah totally i mean that that was revised in its 12th edition and in the literary world you know 98 of books don't make it past their first and it's new covers new chap new epilogues new endings um and then that also happened along the way it really stoked on this first ever addiction graphic novel.

1:13:30That's what I was thinking. And there's just crazy stories that didn't fit in the books written by, done by this artist in Germany. And, you know, me spending time at Tony Hawk's house as a kid with Bucky and, and, and other ones where I'm just strung out and I fall through a, a shooting gallery floor in an abandoned house into this basement where there's no stairs to get out of and water's like up to my chest and there's fucking rats and so just crazy you know a graphic novel kind of stories definitely so okay you wrote that other book while you were in treatment do you have thoughts that you feel like you have another book in you like is there is there another uh edition of wherever you are as a human being that you might want to get out easily is but i just don't have the energy or time right now you know it's kind of writing is kind of inefficient in comparison to doing podcasts where you know if a hundred thousand people see this never mind you know in an hour span yeah and never mind like if people decide like oh we're gonna cut this up and put it on tiktok and it gets five million views or whatever i mean like that i've known a lot of authors over the years who kind of just fell off with writing because the podcasting side of things just made way more sense for them so yeah no that makes complete understandable yeah that book dream seller was inspired by kind of necessity through bam right i wrote that but i had read a read a book before that um a million little pieces james fray is that ring a bell honestly kind of feel like i read that he was on oprah's book club and then he got called out because there were some fabrications yes oh i remember this yeah it turned into a movie yeah so full circle moment james is a dear friend of mine now.

1:15:14And, uh, I literally used the same outline that he wrote his in was 12 chapters. I did that with mine. And, uh, and, and years later I became friends with James. And recently I was given this award in New York city at this thing called Dopey con. And, uh, and I took the award and then gave it to James and was like, dude, if it wasn't for your book, like I wouldn't have had any direction how to write mine and and we become really good friends and and the book why i love it there's a lot of reasons but because it's really prevalent in jails and rehabs it's like you know who i i fuck i don't want to break the anonymity but i met this guy last night um who's a big guy and and very very known and and i didn't know as i'm talking to him and he's saying i was in i was in prison and I read your book and it starts with me talking about letting that guy blow me right something I swore I would never do and I'm writing it while I'm writing it bam's like just be honest act like no one's gonna read it it be bare your soul and I do that and last night I speak at this meeting and there's this guy who uh who puts his hand up and he shares after I'm done talking and he said look your book you know I always like followed your career because you were as much of a fuck up as I was in, in, in like, and then I was in prison and I read your book talking about that and the courage that it took.

1:16:37And, uh, and, and I'm not putting two and two together who he is, but I see him leave and he gets into like this fucking McLaren and I'm like, huh. And I get a DM later and this guy is like a, a, a fucking someone that I really respect and like, and is insanely intelligent. So there's a whole bunch of those things throughout my life. But more importantly, I love fucking, I don't want to say proving people wrong, but proving that, that failure is not an option and no is unacceptable and that you can do or become anything you want if you fucking put your mind to it. And I got my GED in the penitentiary.

1:17:13I am not a high school graduate, but today I get paid to speak in universities. So like, you know, what they say, there's not a one way to go about fucking anything, you know? And that's what Dream Seller has provided me the opportunity to do. When was the first time you got paid to go somewhere and speak about addiction? When did that kind of become part of it? Because you do that a lot now, right? I do. Well, now I'm really consumed. I own drug and alcohol treatment centers. I just opened my second one up last week in New Jersey. Wow. Okay. Which is kind of what I'm doing all this stuff about to promote Redemption Addiction Treatment Center.

1:17:51And so I have two of those and I have seven sober living houses with 70 beds. um but speaking is what i love to do but what i do at my facilities i don't speak so much because it takes me away from where i love to be which is my facilities and i run the 9 a.m group every day at my delaware location and then i drive to jersey and i run the 1 p.m every day and i'm really hands-on and that's what sets my program apart from the billion of others right i could easily franchise in california utah fucking oregon right because i can't be there the rehab space i'm I'm not even like remembering anything super specific, but I've definitely heard like people theorize or accuse them of like, you know, being like super for profit and kind of doing fucked up shit to keep people in there that shouldn't be there.

1:18:37Is that, is that something you were like aware of and you wanted to sort of right those wrongs with your rehabs or what's the deal with that? I, what I wanted to do was create a treatment center that I would sit in and go through and feel like it was the most conducive thing for a guy who can't draw a sober breath. So when I created my environments, my establishments, Redemptions, Addiction Treatment Center, I created it as if I was going to be a client sitting in this chair. How would I feel about that employee saying hello to me? Because my behavior was like my father's, erratic and sporadic at best, and you never knew what you were going to get.

1:19:12So I literally designed it and I created a place where the employees and the clients want to be at as opposed to feel like they have to be at. Because we don't get there on a winning streak yeah right and and and and so i'm there five days a week when i'm not traveling i'm so invested and and what happens is because they're a lot like me where they don't believe in themselves but if i continue to show up for them and i believe in them long enough for them to start fucking around and believing in themselves then they want to be a part of this amazing life they're starting to be blessed with right so on days when they don't want to show up they're like fuck Novak like drives 40 minutes one way every morning when he doesn't need to and has a staff that completely can take care of this and it hopefully makes them think twice before like giving up on themselves like I always did is there ever any kind of like weirdness mentally in terms of like balancing the incentives between just wanting to get people sober and then running a business where you want to make money totally you know when I first started this I'm like I want to fucking help everybody everyone deserves a chance everyone and they do right um but like you didn't care about money you just fill the place up with a bunch of addicts off the street i can open the doors right here and fucking put a bus in full yeah right 70 beds like that yeah in 20 minutes but but also those people are realistically almost none of them are going to be like ready for the treatment right so it's kind of like you know even like the the money and like being able to pay for it in some ways kind of like pre-qualifies you as somebody who's going to sort of take it serious right you would think a little more skin in the game yeah right a part of their process so life has a way of right sizing me and i love being proved wrong and i love being right sized because i think you know 10 years sober and and and very happy with where i'm at and a very nice life that that i know some shit and the reality is like i don't and and it's all god and higher power but so what happens is um fuck what was the question i totally veered off oh the incentives of charity versus business yeah so i want to help everybody i want to help everybody and and then i i open a business right and now i have to make payroll you know i have to pay the mortgage i have to pay the staff who are providing help for these clients so if i don't have any paying clients how the fuck am i going to pay the staff to continue to give this free help away right so I kind of learned how to like navigate through that which that wasn't ever a thought or concern on my radar before but but it's impossible for things not to evolve as long as I continue to show up and want to actively better myself and so I look my perspective on reality changes regularly and they told me if I change my perception I could change my world right and I learn that my mentality will create my reality so if i said yes if i want to be a fucking brain surgeon i could be a brain surgeon the fact i would just have to give it the attention and respect it deserves become a student of the teachings talk to other brain surgeons sign up for whatever it you know and and we could do that i have that feeling about stuff but i also feel like uh there are some things that would just be so hard for me to learn because i feel like my brain is tuned to a certain skill set you know if i wanted to become a math professor do i think that i could do that i mean shit i probably got 30 40 years left on earth maybe but that's probably the hardest thing yeah and i don't want to be god forbid i don't want any part of it but but like straight up yeah you know and but more importantly i've learned what i know today but i've really learned what the fuck i don't know yeah so i stay in my lane and i don't try to portray this you You know, when I'm working with my clients, I don't give them hypothesis or educated guesses of what could or couldn't happen.

1:23:03I simply tell with you what my 22 year bout with drinking and drugging look like and suggest that if you can find more similarities than differences, it might make sense to pay attention. But if not, that's cool, too. I get it because it's really between you and your higher power. If this information is going to take for you to, like, look at it a little differently. For sure. Steve-O got sober before you. Yeah, he's fucking great. Was he somebody that was communicating with you while you were getting clean and everything? Or what was he telling you before you even made the decision? Well, you know, we partied together for a long time.

1:23:36Right. And he was insane. I have these images of him surrounded by nitrous canisters that's kind of seared into my brain, that iconic photo. I mean, I've been, I remember we did the, we were doing the gumball rally in Europe one time. And he would always like to get people into his hotel room and then just play footage of himself and lock people in his room while fucking doing nitrous. Yeah. And I'll never forget. He had like me and Bam in his room. And you walk in and the bathroom is here. And then it's the bed. And he has his from his waist up is in the bathroom. And as he's huffing fucking nitrous.

1:24:14And so we have to step over his legs. And he's got his laptop set up on the bed. And he's making us watch him. but he's holding us hostage so we can't get the fuck out like he he's insane and and then he got sober and he was one of those people that i was like dude if he can do it you know i can do it and and i just kind of like really remember his story had depth and weight i had partied with him and then i saw him get sober and then i went around when he was sober and i wasn't and and he didn't really change that much but i watched him navigate through and i paid very close attention and uh and it gave me a little belief in myself i saw a clip of you on his podcast where it seemed like you guys kind of have different ideas about being like a sober influencer for lack of a better term or whatever where he he actually said that that's almost like his worst nightmare the last thing that he would want for his life is for his identity to be entirely wrapped up in him being sober and feels like it's kind of important for him to have that be part of his story, but not the whole thing.

1:25:20And it was kind of an interesting podcast clip because I was kind of like, well, you are kind of describing a large percentage of what Brandon is spending his life on. Have you like, what is that relationship like? Do you ever, do you understand where he's coming from with that mentality? 100 % I do. And here's the truth about me. There's two things I loved more than anything in this world. And it was skateboarding and drugs and alcohol. and and and therefore i was that guy that was going to die and i could not get enough drugs i couldn't use enough drugs i couldn't make them last long enough so for a guy like me to be removed from that life that i just wanted to fucking not wake up for on a daily basis um i can't get enough gratitude in my heart paired with the fact of how much i love drugs and alcohol that like today i'm just as consumed by drugs as I was, if not more.

1:26:16The only difference is, is I, I don't use them and I'm provided a beautiful life from them. And it's like my, my poison has become my medicine. Uh, and, and for that, it doesn't really matter much what the fuck anyone thinks about where I'm at. Ask my mother if she's happy with her son today. And that's what fucking allows me to sleep peacefully. Yeah. And I'm still, you know, I talk to Steve often, you know, and we're great. And that's the cool thing about sobriety is it allows us to have choices and options. I'm not into like doing comedy. I'm not a fucking stand up, you know, so like that. I don't I wouldn't want that to be my fucking life.

1:26:54But that's what Steve loves and fucking right for that. And he's a guy that I aspire to be like on so many different levels, man. Yeah. Yeah. No, it is amazing. Just honestly, seeing you, seeing him. and then even like you know i remember one night watching you know five epically later in a row or some shit and just realizing like every dude i just watched has the same story like get into skateboarding in your teenage years get really really good at it get sponsored get money get into drugs and alcohol to the point where you're really fucked up for a long time and then you have to get sober and then you kind of return to skating and maybe you're not as good at skating as you once were but you're at least really fucking happy to be here yeah it's like such an unbelievably consistent story in skateboarding that you would kind of hope that the younger generation wouldn't keep having to learn it for themselves which maybe to some extent that has caught on you know like the younger generation does seem less interested in drinking but uh yeah i mean this is such an unbelievable consistent story and even bmx same thing you know i interviewed a guy ryan mills a few years back who uh yeah yeah oh you know him yeah oh that's sick yeah yeah yeah we the vegas guy right yeah yeah so he's a sober guy and his anniversary's on my anniversary really wow and like we're friends through that i didn't know that yeah because he his story is like shout out right he blows his knee out and he was a pro that i was watching when i was a kid just seeing him in magazines and shit he blows his knee out gets a script yeah everything's over fast forward a few years he's like robbing designer stores with a big crew other drug addicts and shit like crazy you know and and i know other dudes in bmx exact same story yeah it's the same fucking pattern just different like you know it's dressed up differently whether it's just skateboard or or but that full circle moment you know talking about like is it still like that that that that world are they still and and i say the same thing i'm like i don't see people drinking or drugging like i did and it's changed and then i have to ask myself has it changed or have I changed and I'm just seeing things differently, you know, but I don't, I'm not in the skate culture nearly like I was, but I don't think that it's as much as what it used to be when I was there.

1:29:08Yeah. I mean, I think like with the spread of information on the internet and stuff, a lot of stuff that was very alluring in the culture, you know, and when I say the culture, I mean like the overall culture, some of that tends to go away with more information being present. Like, I feel like in hip hop, the streets don't hold the same intrigue that they used to because everybody's got enough information to realize like, oh, you get into trafficking drugs or killing people or whatever that you're going to go to prison for 30 years or, you know, and hey, all these guys that are telling you that they're super gangster pretty much like snitched on each other or whoever they were doing crimes with.

1:29:48Like, you know, I, I, and so then now you'll have a Instagram post about some rapper getting busted for some criminal shit that 20 years ago probably would have got a lot of praise for just being real or whatever. And the younger audience now is just like, wow, what a, what a dumbass. You're right. They see your life up. Yeah. Ignorance is bliss. Right. And we have like the internet and we have access to this information to where we're accountable. And it's harder to stay stuck on stupid today because you fucking know. Yeah. Right. And I also think that in today's age in society where we're at, that it's kind of like right now at this moment, and as you know, the older I get, things shift quickly.

1:30:29But it's rad to be like a better version of yourself. Like it's not, I don't think, maybe I'm just so jaded by my own shit, but being sober is looked at as like a fucking commendable thing. Or just, you know, yoga or finding a practice with a spirituality or whatever it is, just to be a little bit better of a version of yourself. Stuff that hadn't really even crossed our minds when we were younger. Yeah, like people were like, damn, I find that intriguing or admirable, you know? Yeah, definitely. And I'm a better version of me. Like I am an asset today to anything that I'm a part of, whether it's friends, family, business.

1:31:06Like I bring something to the fucking table. And from that business perspective, you know, those are the people I want around because there's too many liabilities otherwise. Are there like a variety of different scenarios that you've like tried to prepare yourself for? Because I feel like that's part of getting sober, right? Is that you need to imagine the worst trigger that you could ever have and then try to picture how you're going to react and how you're not going to give in to the trauma. For sure. Great question. And I've never been asked that, but it is, uh, and I have, and it's my mother's 83, right?

1:31:44And there's going to come a time, absolute fact. And, uh, so what I do is I, I listen when other people talk and talk about losing their, their significant other or the mother. And then I hear that they make it through it and, and I continue to strengthen my relationship with God, man. And that's everything. And so like, I know that I will be okay. is it something that I want or that I'm like fuck no but like that's the importance of building that foundation that I talked about in the beginning right without this foundation and being honest with self fuck what I say to you on this podcast with self then I will not have that foundation that will will be capable of weathering the storms that are coming not if but when right because just because I got sober doesn't mean like the world becomes a fucking magical place where no pain happens fuck right that's insane so yeah you know and she's not getting younger and you know she's getting sick here and there and right so yeah it's like uh but i know that i'll make it through it yeah it's just gotta like you know i feel like you you want to try to imagine this kind of thing beforehand to try to like wrap your head around what it might be like to go through that i i have and i do yeah and i more so more these days because she's no you know not getting younger if i have somebody in my life and lush i'm about to subtweet you here but uh if if you have i have somebody in my life who when he first came on this podcast was sober and now oh you know i won't claim to know exactly what he's doing but i know he's drinking i know he's doing probably molly and i don't i don't know exactly what he's doing but definitely comes in here looking like he's been up all night sometimes definitely you know still does a pretty good job as a podcaster regardless but you know i i see the toll it takes on him and i worry about him but also you know i'm kind of jaded in the sense of like i know i can't make that decision for him he's been in rehab a lot of times over the years and shit like that what would be your general advice in terms of how I should approach having somebody in my life who is still struggling?

1:33:55That's a really tough question because it's just a case by case scenario. And there's so much that goes into that, the relationship with your guys experience with your time together's look like and the dynamics of whatever his deal is. But for me, what I do with people in that place is I I challenge them to ask themselves this question. If drugs or alcohol are the answer, then what the fuck's the question? And looking back, why did I feel the need to ingest a drink or a drug to change the way I feel internally about my external situations? And if I could have figured that out, I could have avoided a lot of fucking agony and prolonged pain and broken relationships.

1:34:43lost trust. But ultimately on the other end of that spectrum, I had to be entitled to my own process. And looking back, if anybody would have interrupted or changed my process, I very well might not be the child of God that I am today. Meaning one less like arrests, one less violation, one less night of my behaviors, making my mother cry herself to sleep. Right. So it's, it's, it's a case by case it's kind of crazy how but you sorry i'm sorry no i was just gonna say it's kind of crazy how resilient the human body is that you were torturing yourself for all those decades and i i mean you seem fine you know like i don't know i haven't talked to your doctor but i'm guessing like you know somehow doing all that shit for 20 years didn't really uh fuck you up that bad i don't know i'm sure you feel it i mean i can't i had hepatitis went on medication for that that's no longer detectable um you know waking up in the icu was a regular occurrence it's strictly nothing less than god's grace and mercy yeah i have plenty of friends that did what i did for as long as i did the amount that i did that have died right like it's that that's the only way that i can explain it and i believe that i was intended to go through that to, to then be this, uh, guy who has devoted his life to helping people who are where I once was.

1:36:10And in doing that process, it helps me stay sober. Definitely. But it also takes a toll. There's times I get tired of fucking talking and talking about it or, or me. And so I, uh, I've become somewhat of an introvert too. You know what I mean? And the older, I don't like loud noises I don't like groups of people so I'm kind of just chill and happy with like the simplicity of life yeah yeah no definitely yeah it's like when you think about that younger partying part of your life like I had FOMO every night that I didn't get a chance to go out with the guys or whatever you know like I know dudes who have been going out and drinking and doing coke or whatever for like you know 30 years they're like in their 50s and they're still going out partying and i'm 41 and i'm just like jesus when i see those dudes i'm like i really feel like i hit my uh my limit because i totally just stopped drinking and doing coke and shit in like 2019 and uh yeah i just like look at him and i'm like how the fuck are you still hanging on like i just feel like i would just have a heart attack if i was in any way consuming as much substances as you but yeah i mean you know i feel like i uh at this point it's just like so much easier to just appreciate the little stuff of just waking up feeling pretty good and going to sleep feeling pretty good anytime anybody's ever like offered me a line of coke or something over the last however many years it's just kind of like you know i feel good right now and if i do that yeah i'm gonna feel a little better for a little bit for like 15 minutes and then i'm gonna feel noticeably worse legit and then i'm gonna kind of feel like noticeably worse for like a couple hours after that and that's if i have the self-control to not do a bunch more of Which is fucking slim to none.

1:37:54Yeah, which is just like. You give me one line, I just want to punch you in the face. Yeah. Fuck. Which in comparison right now, I feel fine. And I think I'm just going to hold on to that. Legit. And it goes back to it's easier to stay sober than get sober. Yeah. I could stop. Stopping was not the problem. I couldn't stay stopped because there's no consistency in my life. Yeah. And now that I have been able to do that for a significant period of time, I've been able to endure the early stages of recovery. which are like a bipolar rollercoaster ride from hell because I could be above heaven high and the wind can blow wrong and I'm below hell low and I don't know how the fuck that just happened but I've endured those trying times to where I have this life today that is so beautiful and I'm so grateful for that and this is the blessing that the thought of sniffing that line of blow or shooting that bag of dope or having that glass of wine is insane to me yeah and that's not the way that I was wired I mean I have a tattoo on my my arm it's it's where's my needle oh there it is like I love to fucking get you got that when you were still in the middle of everything you got Alf right there too yeah dude what's it create from the sitcom that many people watching this might not remember but my very first dude and you know the the creator of that uh did you read his book fucking name I was just talking about it last night the book is called permanent midnight look it up he and this will make sense to you now since you loved Alf like that when he created that he was fucking smoking insane amount of crack and doing tons of heroin and that's how Alf came about of this fucking UFO thing from Malmac that always wanted to eat the cat and he was on crack and heroin and then they made a movie to it Jerry Stahl and Ben Stiller played Jerry Stahl which is crazy to think you gotta read the book you'll love it or the movie which is it pals in comparison i have this memory of being i guess i was three or four like when my sister was born and my dad while we were at the hospital said let's go to toys r us we're gonna get a toy for your baby sister like because she's about to be born in the next day or so and i went to the store with him and i tried to buy an elf doll and he was like that's gonna be too scary for a newborn baby it's weird he maybe get something that was more age appropriate i remember being like three and being like oh shit okay my dad's pretty smart he knows that for this moment yeah i have an elf doll at my house yeah i know which i fucking love cats me too my end game is to open a cat sanctuary i'm a cat fanatic what about cat cafe you ever been one of them i love them i go to them to give money to support the cats because they use them to adopt the cats out so they're fun i've only been to it in uh oh no i think i tried to go to a cat cafe in japan and then we ended up going to one that had all kinds of other weird animals that's fitting for japan yeah i think they have cat cafes in la now i saw them i went to one in san diego really um but yeah that's my end game i believe i was a cat in my past life really i like to pick and choose who i give my attention to i like to leave when i want to leave i i eat the same thing every day when i'm not traveling and I keep odd hours.

1:41:09I think I, when I first got a cat, I felt like it made me have like a very sincere sense that everything was going to be okay. Cause they wake up, they don't accomplish anything all day. It's just like, if I can get some food enough to live, then I'll be all right. Occasionally want a little bit of cuddles. Yeah. But then, you know, the day ends and they're okay. And they're just happy. Everything is okay. Yes. Whereas like, I've always kind of had this thing in my head of like, no, you have to. Yeah. become this you have to succeed at this you know you always have to be growing and learning and somehow the cat i find it kind of soothing actually as soon as my daughter was born a couple months later my cat of 18 years uh we had to put him down oh i'm sorry and now uh yeah various allergy issues in my house so i haven't been able to get a cat now i got two dogs which a little less soothing but they're yeah yeah yeah um i i have this sign in my house and it says pay attention to the little things because one day the little things become the big things and i always thought it was the end objective that was the the thing the house the the accounts the cars the women and and looking back it's none of that it was the the the the laughs had the memories shared the mouse the smiles given that that are the thing yeah i always overlooked that i mean looking back in my life like i always think about this with my early 20s that's like i was 21 or whatever living in new york city in an apartment that costs 150 a month riding bikes yeah every day outside that sounds epic yeah just meeting girls just having fun every day and it's like i knew it was pretty good but looking back at it it's like fuck i wish i i really grasped how good life was and sometimes I think about that now too like I'm gonna be 70 looking back at my life now like holy fuck that was good.

1:42:59This was the moment. Yeah. And we're just too worried about the next thing I'm guilty of that. You gotta always be trying to reframe it and think about how you're pretty fucking lucky to be here right now. It's all yeah and as long as I can find this place of gratitude then I'm very content with what's going on. But I'm wired to see you know I'm so consumed by the mess that I miss the fucking message. You know I see what I don't have why it's not how it should be why I'm not where I believe I should be. And I'm missing like the blessing of having this really meaningful conversation that God willing will maybe help somebody along the way.

1:43:34100%. A lot of times you don't realize that too until people are gone. And you're like, oh, fuck, I could have spent more time with them. For sure. It's like a lot of people's biggest fear is that they, you know, even like your parents, like, you know, I see my parents maybe every week or two. Feels pretty good. but I guarantee when they're gone I'm going to be fucked up over not spending more time with them that's it my mother she's 83 I can't get enough of her and there's days she doesn't I wanted to get sober because I wanted a relationship with her and I say to everybody be careful what you fucking ask for because like if you get it can you handle it and now my mother will call me 20 times a day she doesn't fucking leave me alone sometimes I have to go back and like put her in the shower because she doesn't want to get a shower and I have to remind myself on days when like I have to do shit that I don't want to do that there's going to be a time where I would pray to feel angry at her because she's not listening to me tell her to get a shower you know so it's just a reality check of of what's really meaningful today so I'm every Saturday now I go back to Baltimore I skate during the day for the mental health then I take her to that same church that she used to pray for me to fucking you know um for god to cure me or kill me and then i take her to dinner and it's the highlight of my week because i know that i'm gonna be in this place where like fuck i could have spent this you know what i mean facts man yeah it was uh it was great getting a chance to talk to you what are you uh what are you working on right now what do you really feel like you want to accomplish before you die like what's the main stuff that's the most important to you at this point I just want to, for me, think less about myself and more about others.

1:45:17If I continue to see what I can bring to the table as opposed to what I can get out of the scenario with God's children that are my brothers and sisters, every one of them, even like the ones I don't fucking like. Right. Like what can I bring to that table to make this, this weird thing called humanity or society, a better place for everyone to want to be a part of. And, and that's really what I, I work hard to do, um, is to, to just give something that I have away. Right. And, and, and, and help with sincerity and honesty and be completely transparent. and and that allows me to to sleep better at night but more importantly prove to me that my mother is proud of me which is all i ever wanted that that was that's all i wanted no yeah that's inspirational shit especially just like hearing that there was this time in her life where i mean those words of uh i'm not gonna love you to death anymore yeah that hit me during this conversation like those, that was serious, man.

1:46:27Like, you know, to see you on the other side of that is, it's a beautiful thing. And because of that, you know, the, the, the, the unconditional love that she showed me, right. If somebody would have treated my mother, the way I treated her, I would have fucking killed them. And for her to, to, to totally ignore that and treat me with nothing but unconditional love, if I can be a fucking 1 % of who she is, like I've arrived. And that's my objective today. I spent a lot of time trying to impress people that I didn't even fucking know. And at 46, hopefully grasping a pretty good perspective on what I think is the best for me, I'm cool with that.

1:47:15thank you to everybody who watched this thank you for giving me the time I followed your journey I know we have a lot of mutual friends and I'm really glad that we got to sit down and have this genuine conversation you're a good man no I appreciate you too man like honestly borderline burst into tears at a certain moment of that conversation I held it back but that shit with your mom that last moment of desperation was just like fuck dude you got me man It wasn't my fucking plan today to cry at a fucking podcast. No, but thank you. You do a great job. I've watched what you do from afar, and you provide a platform for a lot of people, and it makes people think.

1:47:56Oh, yeah. What you do makes people think. It does for me. I watch your stuff. Appreciate it, man. Yeah, okay. You're not related to BJ Novak, right? No. No. He's amazing. Yeah, fucking. As a lifelong Office fan, I got to give it to him, yeah. Straight up. All right. Appreciate you, man. And Brandon Novak, everybody go check these books out. I'm sure they're on Amazon. I'm sure they're on your website. And if anybody out there is struggling and wants help, right, and needs help in any capacity with addiction or alcoholism, I'm going to give you a number, and this number goes to me or my coworker, John.

1:48:29You'll get one of us. Call us, 610-314-6747. Let's get you the help you deserve if you feel like you're in need of it. If not, God bless, man. Hell yeah, man. thank you Brandon appreciate you cheers no jumper coolest podcast in the world like comment and subscribe I'll definitely be uh in there reading those comments appreciate y 'all yes