Danny from The Stop on Ebro & Rosenberg FIRED, Queenzflip's Demotion, Hip Hop Media in 2025

56:36Give it to Joe Budden that he, like, probably could have got a bunch of gangster house dudes to be podcast hosts at a certain point and probably was pretty wise in not doing that. and uh i went a different direction i got the spiciest craziest host possible speaking i assume surf is likely gonna be on the pod when he comes out on his pod yeah i think that's gonna be interesting i think it comes out february really and joe said something to the extent that i'm gonna have surf live in my apartment but i think it was more so to keep him away from trouble but i'm like if he's gonna be in your apartment he's gonna be on the pot and i think what's cool about joe in terms of surf is he was never ever positioned as a gang podcaster he was just sue surf but then i guess who surf is entertainer so i remember him on other podcasts going off so i think even the way joe because i i think it was cool how you admitted that maybe this was a downfall of like not downfall but a down year joe when he had his down year he had his talking points ready about why it was a down year i remember him saying some shit like yeah the numbers are down was because people are listening to audio because ish and ice are older so that makes no sense even like i i didn't hear joe say this but like even as you say that right there i can just picture him saying this as if you're an idiot for not understanding this like totally bullshit convoluted logic like what yeah like ish and ice are older than rory and maul who cares possibly i mean you know that's joe he likes to spin his little narrative he's like a cult leader for real like he he gets he tells his audience stuff and not the whole audience believes it but they they believe it i mean maybe you should get into that bag where you start making up like things and be like yeah we're more bet because audio is a black box who's gonna be able to look up those numbers i don't think anybody would really believe that no jumper was a platform that was primarily benefiting from those which to be fair though i would be correct to call that out all the time because we actually do get a very significant number of views from the audio platforms because of the fact that we've had we've really emphasized that we put like no jumper content on the audio platforms from the very very beginning even like our soundcloud has like 130 000 followers that was just for the audio you know we stopped posting on there years ago but like you know that we we could easily emphasize that but i mean it's just who cares like we're talking about youtube numbers because that's where most of us watch our content right yeah yeah that's what you're known for um and it's like at one point vice became you know a video place not a website article place yeah so it's just what it is uh but i mean one thing i wanted to touch upon too is what do you think about rory and what happened i feel like you never talked about that or maybe you did yeah i did talk about it but you know i mean like what what part about it the fact that he had racist tweets from back in the day more so how he dealt with it yeah he dealt with it like a dummy for sure like the last thing you want to do is submerge yourself in this cesspool of people who are complete like like complete loser nobody's no offense to these twitter spaces but it's just nobody like nobody in their right mind who is a celebrity should be spending this much time with their fans in an environment like that in which they are able to basically like get to you and get on your level in a way in which they have not earned at all like putting yourself into that at that moment when everybody's mad at you and everybody's on you for fairly legitimate reasons and then not only putting yourself in that environment but like challenging them yeah do it or don't do it or don't sometimes i think about like sometimes i think that in my head and it just like plays like like i do that too that's weird yeah do it or don't do it like i'm a no cure you bitch do it or don't i just think it out of my head sometimes because i'm like who the f**k says that that's such a bizarre thing to say like what What are you doing?

1:00:51I know on the phone, too. But I feel as if he thought, and that was another thing somebody brought up the other day to me, is like these things will get clipped, and it won't look like a bunch of Kendrick fans are taking you to the task. It'll just sound like people who are genuinely upset without the subtext of knowing that they're mad at your GNX review. And those tweets weren't good either. But, yeah. No, for sure. Bunch of weird text. But I refuse to take seriously the notion that Rory is a racist. Rory he has the opposite Problem he panders you saying Yeah he's a pick me white boy Okay and I'm not saying that in a negative Way because obviously it's worked out for him and You find a million examples of me doing the Same shit but it's like you know this this guy's Like the least Inclined to say anything critical about Black people of any Like if you were to like put all The white people in one room He's in the top one is like him and Robin DiAngelo are like the top 1 % forgiving whites who jeremy heck yeah okay rory's in the top two jeremy's in the top one yeah jeremy and rory like yeah that guy like he did a video after rory got canceled about why rory should move differently as if rory doesn't know he should move differently i don't know i acknowledged his existence for the first time after uh that podcast broke up i sent him a dm on instagram being like yo you want to do a podcast he didn't respond i mean i feel like why not i've never seen that podcast i'm not gonna lie i've seen a couple clips but he's he's i think he's a nice guy but just some of the takes he has man he's always like so predictable all the anti-drake guys are so are so predictable so like unserious when you look back at a lot of those takes you know what it feels like it feels like when you look back at the the video of all the white celebrities who are all crying and saying like we have failed i am so sorry for every every time someone made a joke around me and i didn't tell them that they were wrong i'm so sorry i'm so sorry for racism that's like how it felt seeing like like that has just aged so poorly and the only other thing that i can think of that has aged poorly because drake versus kendrick was the 2020 racial reckoning but for it sounds stupid but it's true it like just consumed the culture in such an extreme way and when you watch the clip of like jeremy and dj head and elliot talking about how bad drake was for women it has that exact effect on you when they're talking about drake as like a sickness it's like yo y 'all really thought that the world was changing in a way that it absolutely did not like you timeline tricked them they had just convinced themselves that this was the good fight to be fighting that like drake was like a it was like the coronavirus and he needed to be drake equals systematic racism is basically like the argument that they were moving around with my thing was is i never understood why they didn't get a drake fan to be on the show i thought that would have helped the show been so much popular i thought it could have been fox news you get the even if you got like a fat drake fan like that is really like just they're like the combs of Hannity and usually they were an echo chamber I know head is different I don't want to disrespect head but I just don't find them that entertaining uh Elliot's another one it's like there's all the wavelengths of just the same opinion same opinion and I think that's why the Joe Budden podcast is good because sometimes at least they pretend to not agree these guys were just like pretending not to agree but still agreeing it's like yeah honestly like DJ Head and I used to have a cool relationship he used to hit me up on some real cool I don't know you'd hit me up just like telling me with me and shit like that and like i think we didn't talk for a couple years and then the drake and kendrick shit pops off and like i can click on his twitter for the first time in years and i'm like oh shit like i caught the unfollow oh wow and then i was like realizing like oh maybe i'm part of this ovo style scourge upon society maybe i need to be wiped out just like drake I don't know I'm not really sure exactly how DJ Head went from being a big fan of the 22 story to being opposed to man that shit was wild if you were a Drake fan you were a Trumper oh yeah it was treated like that for sure maybe worse yeah and it was crazy because I think Kendrick's really talented I've just been listening to Drake way more these last 15 years yeah I mean to even put Kendrick in the same category as Drake in terms of like stardom it's just so stupid so silly like this is just he is not produced like anywhere near the body of work that drake has produced drake's like a master of all genres the idea that this was even like the guy that you could put up against drake as the anti-drake is so funny in retrospect that this was ever taken seriously yeah i don't know it's just kind of it kind of reminds me of when um muhammad ali was like telling joe frazier like you're not one of us it was like this dude was like blue collar yeah but he talked so good muhammad that he could just talk that shit and he could make people believe that and i mean kendrick is a different thing because he still is one of the highest selling rappers of all time he still is bigger than most rappers that there will ever exist so there is a commercial success with him that there's never going to be another drake that's going to be as equal as him so you got to find the next best thing and kendrick lyrically was the really he's elite he's one of the best i don't listen to him though you know i mean i listen to uh good kid mad city elite album love that handful of good songs over the years gnex i thought was pretty good project a lot of those other projects that are treated and revered as if they're incredible i have no use for um that being said not a word that i think has really entered like the hip-hop lexicon populism a political approach tell me if this sounds like a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups i think you need to like uh think about that word when you understand what move kendrick and his team tried to pull on the people like they really tried to convince you in the very like trump style way hey the democrats are actually the ones who f***ed everything up I can save you they're elites they're bad for society they don't care about normal people I will save you yeah but Drake also angered a lot of other fan bases so they were like looking for somebody to take them down yeah and they migrated over there was the Meg base there was the Rihanna base there's the Jay-Z base push a T base push a T base he couldn't get the job done we got to get this other guy Joe Budden fans yeah Ebro fan well I don't know there's ebro fans but just real hip-hop fans and yeah and anybody i mean you see this you know there's there's i i noticed the same sentiment simmering towards like timothy chalamet like like hey you're you're super popular good looking you seem like a great guy everybody seems like they like you god i just can't wait to find something to take you down with yeah and he's only been out here hot for a little while i thought bobby althoff got there too i thought like i didn't know what i didn't know what she did but she's the definition of being put into a role that she in no way had earned or had any sort of valid claim to which i with her i think she seems like a cool person i think that she kind of got a raw deal but and and obviously you just don't turn down a drake interview even if you are at the very beginning of your career but like i saw that conversation playing out with her and him because that's why they fell out really is because she kind of told him like hey like my life is kind of up ever since i interviewed you and he's kind of like i did the best thing that anyone has ever done for you your entire life and you're telling me that this is a problem like what the is wrong with you but from my phone but from her perspective she was a chick with like a million tiktok followers where fame was only good for her and then all of a sudden she does this drake interview and it opens the floodgates of like bitch we are on you you suck you're out of here boom yeah nah i i think she's really talented so much so that I think Joe said he wanted to sign her.

1:09:03Did he really say that? Yeah, he said that. That's interesting. It's hard. It's tricky to navigate. There's a minefield, and you don't know how much any of it is real. And sometimes in the reaction, you actually make things worse, which is why people who handle cancellation are to be monitored, like Mr. Beast, handle that shit real well, to the point where the person who exposed them got canceled. I don't know. it seems like just don't say nothing is the right way but our minds the way minds work in content it never seems to play out that way yeah like if rory had not really responded to those tweets and stuff he probably would have been able to move past that shit so much easier but like the thing about it is that rory just hasn't really been canceled before so he doesn't really this is like a pretty new experience for him i think but that way what's the dirt too the same same thing similar happens like imagine if i had i don't have the ability either to like just shut things i'm trying to develop it but just like shut the internet off i'm gonna keep making content rory could just spend this i signed with netflix now and it just you just keep things moving and now he's in an ecosystem where all my views drop i'm on netflix yeah i mean if rory had waited a couple days and then talked about on the podcast for five ten minutes dudes was calling him yo get the off the space yeah he was like my mom called me why didn't you listen like why didn't you listen yeah but he was geeked up in that moment bro he was just like really just in his you know he just it's tough like you don't know what the can say when you're in that position because you've never been in this position before and you don't know what it's like because normally in your life there's one style of like rational communication which is just to basically like be yourself if you got something to say say it try to be nice this advice does not work when you have a mob outside your house.

1:10:50When there's like 100 people outside your house with pitchforks, you just don't get to like go outside and be like, hey guys, like do it or don't, man. Like whatever. You know, that attitude is not going to work in that environment, you know? I mean, he played himself, but I think he knows and he's not, he deleted his Twitter and hasn't been back since. That's crazy. You think he might really be like done with Twitter? He should never come back, man. I think he should never come back. He should never come back. Yo, I told What's the Dirt to stay off Twitter. And he didn't listen. He didn't listen.

1:11:19He came back. He kept going. No, this is like before you got canceled. I was like, I told him, be a person who is known for making really great YouTube content and let all the people out there know that they can't bait you into drama, that they can't coax you out of your hole. You need to seem bigger than the program. Probably some of these are words that I didn't actually say, but this is a sentiment that I was trying to get across. like let them know that you're not crawling down to argue with them and if you are going to crawl down and argue with them that that's content that that's a video that's a 10 minute video that you can monetize arguing with your haters don't be quote tweeting motherfuckers on twitter it's not going to work out good for you i feel like he definitely took a hit i mean this is a guy who had a 10 million view youtube video in a hit though i think he was kind of like more beloved and that when this scandal went down that he sort of got put more in the like oh let's this guy let's hate on him yeah and i think you know his his views have like gone down a lot since then but i kind of do think that that was inevitable and that that i think there's like a larger conversation about views i feel like everybody's views is dropping though so i don't i don't know if his views are any worse than other people i think a lot of people are tired of the drake yeah bash like drink is evil and you see that with elliot wilson um they kind of worn out their welcome because of the same regurgitated takes and you see that with uh who else ebro and all these guys like we've seen you say this for the last three years it's time to move on yeah but a lot of people's views are bad i think youtube's making big changes too well i saw you saying that that youtube basically like counts views differently now you're assuming um why do you say that i say that did i say they count views i saw you saying that about some some you're responding is something you said that youtube has changed something with how they count views which i instinctively tend to agree with but you know maybe i'm just agreeing with that because it gives me a little bit more of a excuse for why our views is not not as good as they used to be i think it's not an excuse when it's measured across several platforms but um i do think the ai portion of it is something they're kind of uh jiggering with um i believe like the the they're just trying to find out what works.

1:13:40They're thinking about think pieces in a different way. There's so much content that they have to decide what to feed people. And it's different than even like two years ago. And now with the rise of AI content, it's like how do you rank these people? How do you rank the AI channel that's talking about no jumper against actual no jumper content? Yeah. And, I mean, people are losing views on stuff like podcasts to a lot of different things because, you know, yeah, you have people making sort of documentary style content about your content or similar content that's inevitably going to you know take people away from it but i really feel like short form content is probably the biggest enemy of the podcasting world just because that is the number one thing that i think is like sucking up a lot of people's uh time and attention and it's understandable because even for somebody like me you know sometimes i get home and i look through my whole youtube feed and i think about like oh okay i'm gonna watch one of these videos and then i'm like you know maybe i'm just gonna look at tiktok instead yeah you know it's like and i feel like to the younger generation bro if you're a kid in high school i'm willing to bet that like almost every kid in high school who has a smartphone is watching short form content and that a very small percentage in in comparison are listening to hour-long podcasts or four-hour long podcast you know i don't know any 14 year old who's watching a rogan or even a joe button or no jumper pod for two hours i walk down the street and i see three mexican construction dudes all sitting there eating their lunch drinking red bull they all had a red bull and they're all on their phone looking at either tiktok or reels do these guys watch podcasts i'm kind of guessing no I'm kind of guessing that TikTok and maybe TV or Netflix is enough for them.

1:15:35Well, they don't waste your time, man. A lot of these content people, now they waste their time. It used to be that you could just drop a three-hour pod and people just lock in. Like in the pandemic, I think that was the peak of that. I remember my brother saying like, yo, I just want content to pass the time. But now what's passing your time is that short form. And that's a threat to even the think-piecers. Because even though we make 10-minute videos, now there's people making one-minute videos, breaking down beefs between each other. but even I have invested in short form now and we'll see how that goes.

1:16:05It's general. That's one of the big changes I want to make for 2026 is looking at short form, looking at ways to make long videos as well. And thinking about what other podcasts I can talk about. I kind of did that this year with earn your leisure, a E bro, Rory and mall and Charlemagne. So I feel like I'm growing past that niche, but no, I think you've been doing a good job of that for sure. Cause you know, you're a good commentator generally, speaking and the joe budden thing is dope but clearly you have uh you know an aspiration to be able to yeah do more but um yeah like honestly these days like we all know the feeling of somebody telling you that they're going to start a podcast you know it's like a pretty common feeling that we all sort of go through hey i'm going to start a podcast like when someone says that to me now i have almost like a feeling of repulsion because you as a regular person as a non-celebrity as a non-public intellectual you not you but like someone i get it the hubris that it takes to think that anyone is going to sit there and listen to your thoughts for two hours is absurd like it's just so unlikely but on your phone you have tiktok and it's almost like i feel like you should graduate out of tiktok or reels in order to be even having a podcast like i want to see you get to a hundred thousand followers on these short form platforms before i'm going to even consider the possibility that you could be successful as a long form content creator because if you can't wake up in the morning and think of a thought in your head that you want to get across to the world that you can represent in a 30 second format you have zero chance of being able to do a good 10 minute version of that thought there's shit i mean it makes me think about new york city where like people are booking mandy and wheezy studio for like 400 500 dollars and do a podcast that no one watches yeah i'm like you could easily shut up my homegirls yeah those are your homegirls Yeah.

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1:18:32Your little one grew three inches overnight. Adorable. Also, expensive. Sell their pint-sized pieces on Depop and list them in minutes with no selling fees. Because somewhere, a dad refuses to pay full price for the clothes his kids will outgrow tomorrow. And he's ready to buy your son's entire wardrobe right now. Consider your future growth spurt budget secured. Start selling on Depop, where taste recognizes taste. Payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. See website for details. It's escalated. I f*** with them. They have been to my house, or Weezy has. But I've done a bunch of podcasts with them over the years and shit.

1:19:08but yeah I mean listen podcast is a male dominated industry yeah so I don't think them girls should be all that surprised that their shit ain't really moving like that you know you mean the podcast I mean they make girl centric podcast content yeah girls don't be listening to podcasts like that girls watch TikToks yeah and I just wonder and it does feel like their audience is older but I wonder how long that you can pot with somebody you don't like but they've done it so well and maybe one day we'll get to the bottom but like i said with these when people tell me they're gonna start a pod or even times where i wanted to start a pod i was like why the do i want to start a pod i remember me and julian were considering doing a pod and i was like at one point i don't that's just stupid like and i didn't want to do that yeah you are one person though who i because okay i have no jumper the crazy ridiculous gangster soap opera sometimes i have a desire to have like more regular hip-hop conversations or media conversations and that's why I've always kind of resented the fact that you live in New York because I feel like you are someone that I feel like I could speak to on a weekly basis about topics on a level that doesn't necessarily involve us you know screaming at each other and shit like that which is kind of my bread and butter but but but then when i see like oh okay ebro and rosenberg and them are doing a podcast and they don't get a space they just they just zoom yeah and that's how they do it so now that's kind of what i've been thinking is like maybe i should start thinking bigger and stop confining myself to just doing podcasts with people who live in the los angeles area and maybe i should start a weekly podcast that is kind of like a bunch of different people from all over country and that would work yeah i saw um who was that did that uh justin hunt they were just like what was it called where he had all basically all of the people who hate drake together but they had big audiences yeah and that that seemed to work i think i should check that out if you have like maybe people who don't with you people and people with you arguing about shit that might go real well it'd be probably a lot cheaper and it would answer your talent issue right because you could get talent from anywhere versus just the people who are in your scope yeah i mean like if you don't have you know part of the magic of no jumper i think is just the fact that like crazy stuff happens when you're face to face but if you're doing a podcast with people who are not the kind of people that are gonna scream at each other or like whatever like then really it's not that big a deal that they're around each other you ever thought of other types of content like when rory mall did the dj head mall debate or the 20 what's that thing that jubilee does like 20 yeah that some people do that yeah i've thought about it a bunch but like i like one night i remember having doing like a deep you know sometimes you're just unhappy with your content you start really looking at other people's content you start really thinking like what else can i do there's all these other people doing successful shit what could i do and i'm looking at jubilee and i'm pitching because it was actually because i listened to an interview with one of the people who runs jubilee and they were talking about all these copycat channels that they have which i didn't know uh i'm just not like deep enough in the jubilee yeah but i've seen some of them since then but then i was also looking at like patrick cc or like trapler ross and i was kind of thinking like these these channels do very similar views but the overhead for running jubilee in comparison to like what business would you rather run would you rather have patrick cc's business where he pumps out like one good commentary video per week gets a million views probably pays like a small team editors and writers but overall his expenses probably pretty low or would you rather do jubilee where maybe you put out a million view video every week but your your expenses are getting 20 people to come here booking fucking charlie kirk or or whoever tucker carlson whoever you got to get this week i mean that's this is not free or easy i mean i don't know just like taking on the weight of doing something like what jubilee does seems kind of insane especially once you realize how much people sue you yeah then you're really going to start thinking twice about having 50 random people come to the spot that you own yeah that's a good point i never think about that because i i more like trap lord ross and i am like jubilee but i feel like um and probably the truth is in the middle somewhere um but it was also like those guys like patrick too lazy to try they get a lot of views but it's like you gotta develop a voice and sometimes the voice that you develop the audience may not really care about it or they might have a pre-existing notion where they just click off that's one thing i think like if i did a joe rogan video like what how would i stand out how would i matter how would i be different than my joe button content and those guys like too lazy to try they had they're an authority on these subjects I think they watch these podcasts in and out, whereas if you're like some interloper who just watches the pod, it's going to come across like that.

1:24:12Like I think about when I did videos about No Jumper, I ain't no shit about all these beefs. And I was like, it's going to look so different watching this video of me talking about AD and Sharp versus somebody else talking about this video talking about AD and Sharp. But I did feel like you were pretty knowledgeable about all these characters at that time. But yeah, I mean, it is all about like who can have the actual best takes. because you know when Too Lazy to Try got me and I was like okay this is a valuable platform is when they started talking about how Joe Rogan kept hyping up AI music to his audience, to his guests where like multiple different clips of him talking to his guests and hyping up this random AI like soul singer who is like the person who made the AI had him performing Many Men by 50 Cent and it's like you know it's hilarious to joe rogan be this like ancient boomer who's just so hyped on this ai music that is such garbage and i'm like damn like that is such a great thing that he just got dibs on making a video about but think about how many hours of joe rogan he had to watch to actually notice these like six times that someone brought that up like that's pretty impressive to me especially when consider that this is someone who like he apparently doesn't really like joe rogan's content but he's watching that much of it in order to just be able to sort of make a video tearing it down like i i'm just i i take the content a different way i'm gonna watch this video that you made about it i'm not watching the original content but if you like that's what falco told me like one time falco hit me up about something that somebody said about me on some random podcast i'm like why are you watching that and he's like this is what i do he's like i just wake up in the morning and watch random podcasts and just look for the gold.

1:26:02And I'm like, that's insane. That's working for him. It's working, yeah. Yeah. The reason why his content about that type of content is because he's watching the content. And it's going to be different than the person who's just like, all right, send me the thing and I'll talk about it. Yeah. If you're making the video about something by the time it hits Twitter and it's viral on Twitter, you're way too late. Yeah, because I was thinking about when my Mark Lamont Hill Queensflip video came out, right? Shiggs had just dropped his flaco had just dropped his and it's like damn i don't know if i'm going to be able to compete with them i dropped mines and for the first time i'm i'm able to beat them and it's like is it because your authority yeah is it because the way i talk about it is backed up by all these hundreds of videos where i talked about it or is it because youtube understands this audience might like my video more it's always a fun thing to think about because i always am like how do i get to be like flaco where he can make videos about things that maybe he doesn't care about or maybe he does care but I don't know just way outside of his usual wheelhouse like if he does no jumper shit or 4 Extra or Crypt Mag or whatever it's like that's his easy shit but he told me that it's like you know he'll get a lot more subscribers when he covers something outside of his usual realm but then he'll get more views if he does his usual beat yeah but I think that's Flocko's credit he makes things that maybe he doesn't follow sound real just like the stuff he does follow and the stuff that he's actually immersed in like I'll click on a video of him talking about some streamer and I'll be like so you're seriously telling me that you're like this invested in Jay Cinco's life but you've never mentioned him to me never mentioned him in the group chat but I'm watching this YouTube video of you talking about him like you care so much and like you know all of his friends you know everything about this guy and I'm just like what is this like how many other things are you interested in that I don't know about he's good at that is Faco still on there I feel like I don't see him no more So he moved to Texas to get a surgery.

1:28:03And was that talked about on the show? Yeah, we talked about it. But, you know, we don't really know if he's going to come back necessarily. Like he's been saying that he was coming back. But is that a real thing? Or is that just like, was that the original plan? Because it's like, it has been kind of weird. Like I almost like didn't notice how different things feel without Flocko. Because he was such a consistent presence on the news and everything, you know. so I actually don't know if he's going to come back but the original plan was for him to come back so Flago Munchie there's a bunch of loose ends but the Flago thing is not about anything like that happened or anything with us it's just he said he was going to get this thing done for a period of time we're in Texas though it's like Dallas I don't know it's been a long time since Texas even got mentioned I think it was Texas though I gotta hit him up I gotta be in Texas too but yeah I think that he's got to figure it out and I at some point would like to see if I could start doing different things but 2026 will present new challenges I'm also growing my business I like to consult people now so if anybody wants consultation feel free to reach out so you've had some luck with people wanting consulting yeah man I don't want to say who but just you know those people have reached out yeah no that's a good bagger actually I have a friend who is basically doing consulting for a YouTube channel and basically kind of tells them what they should make videos about and yeah it's not like uh he's not doing everything for him but he's kind of laying it out there for him which is working out pretty good i think i think some people just like um sometimes talking to me about things not that i'm gonna have the answer but they like going through the thought process and i know people present me as like some evil diabolical genius who tortures the joe budden podcast i think i shouldn't have thrown genius in there but like evil diabolical villain um i just i feel like people like to have discussions about content and if anybody's open to it feel free to let me know and i do it on my twitter spaces i give people ideas right i tell people what to do in terms of what i don't tell what to do i tell them what to think about so so do you feel like um do you feel so you're i've been noticing though that you've been dropping podcasts on your channel these sort of long hour long oh that's my spaces oh so those are just the spaces okay yeah thumbnails are making me so tight that that i would have these crazy ass conversations on spaces and i would leave them on my patreon or my twitter and i was like this needs to find a way to youtube and i was like i need to i need to create visualizations i didn't know how to make i know it sounds stupid but i didn't know how to make visualizers but i was like is this better than actually sitting down recording a pod i think so you think it is i think if it does the same amount of views if it gets clipped up how is it any more less valuable than a pot no i totally yeah i mean yeah it's there was something that i've been wanting to do which is we're getting a little inside baseball here but like at one point there was a um a stream that i did on instagram live this is when i still had instagram live i've been banned for years but it was like i i'm just adding people like i'm adding jay main i'm adding crit mag where i got all these people coming in and out of it and i'm kind of trying to like recreate that on youtube but the problem is is that if you if you say hey i want to just bring people in who are already in this twitter space or whatever then you're kind of like restricting yourself to just the people that are already like super uh invested in this content you know and i feel like the the great thing about instagram live is that this is like normies this is just like any old person could just end up in this instagram live but the twitter space is interesting because i remember like i don't know if he does it a lot but like academics used to do a lot of streams where he would be on clubhouse or i don't know if it was like a discord call or something but like you'd be talking to like a lot of people but then i feel like he doesn't do that anymore yeah i mean that that here's the thing with that is when you talk to a lot of people that leaves you open to a lot of you know liability i think and not necessarily that i know with me you kind of can create copycats or clones that take your style and like people used to take my spaces and put it on youtube i was like that's my stuff like don't put myself on youtube and i know people are gonna say joe button pie but i think it's different when you take somebody's whole space and post it um and you're also opening up to like maybe bad faith actors and i think maybe that could be why academics stopped because then you could change you could create people who then use that type of interaction with you against you yeah and leverage it as something else for them to grow and they may try to put you in positions where you look stupid or try to create conflict with you in order to say i got one up on academics But if you're going to do that kind of content, I think you got to like wall it off to a certain extent.

1:33:01Like you got to you can't just be podding with everybody. You got to like I got my crew. Cultivate a group that you're comfortable with. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely got my crew of people that I feel comfortable with speaking. Sometimes it's hard because, you know, when Joe Budden is on stage or when Mark Lamont is on stage, you see people act different. I'm talking about like they start trying to be like talk to Joe, try to get on stage with Joe. And it's like I understand that. I think it's cool when other people speak, but in content, there's a lot of social climbing that can occur. So from your perspective, is there really any value in a podcast versus a Twitter space?

1:33:36That's the real question that you're kind of getting at. It's like, listen, quality matters to a certain extent. I would much rather see – I would be much more inclined to become a fan of a podcast where I get to see nice, crispy visuals of all the people talking, Whereas just hearing the audio, you know, I feel like Wack 100 is a good example. He does clubhouse all the time. And then he does like No Jumper. And it feels like the clips from No Jumper are like much more likely to spread because it feels higher quality than a clubhouse clip where you really have to be invested to listen to this sort of like bad audio quality.

1:34:12Yeah. Well, Wack doesn't, I don't think his infrastructure for his spaces or clubhouse, which is the same thing, is as good. I don't know if he has a clipper clipping his stuff. And I think if you put them on YouTube, they probably get crazy views too, right? I feel like he does put it on YouTube. I don't know that. I don't really pay attention to his clubhouse content. I'm just talking generally, yeah. Did he have a deal with clubhouse? Because everybody said it. I don't think he ever did one. But I don't know. Not that I know of. I mean, he's talked about how he was getting money on there. But I don't really 100 % know how or if that's like a real thing.

1:34:45I think he was like getting sponsorship. I remember like the first time I went on his clubhouse, everybody had like a 6ix9ine graphic for like their clubhouse room or whatever. It was like, I don't know. It was like this is some weird marketing strategy maybe that like 6ix9ine's team had put into place, I guess. Yeah. Well, I feel like he's leaving a lot of opportunity on the table for him to create better structured clubhouses that he disseminates with a better mic and all that. but yeah no it's possible but i mean that's this guy i mean i don't know whack he's he's in his own shots away i feel like that's that's the appointment viewing for no jumper the whack and adam show the adam and whack show yeah yeah i mean it's weird it goes through a lot of like ups and downs in terms of like what we have to talk about it feels like it kind of yeah yeah people are uh their interest and it kind of has like an ebb and flow thing oh you mean the fans yeah like when there is like a lot of podcasts feel like it doesn't matter what they talk about and the views are gonna be pretty consistent yeah i would not say that that is my feeling on the adam and wag thing like when we have something like really important to discuss we can get 300k and if we're talking about some shit that is not so important to discuss we'll get like 100k and if we have a guest a lot of times we'll do less than that even nice i think that that is good observations by you but that's that's a testament to how youtube has changed yeah i think back when you was with ad and and the crew like anything i did was getting crazy views oh yeah i go back and i see the views on some stuff and i'm like why yeah i had this random group of people together and we potted about nothing for three hours and i got those views and it's weird because it's like the truth is is that part of it is just no jumper not being as popular i guess but like then there's also the part of it of this is youtube now like when i look back at some random episode i did three years ago and it has 600k and i just like i try to picture that episode with that same cast right now and i'm like that shit would do 100k max yeah and that just it's very hard to like sort of cram that into your brain timing is everything when you strike strike Jake's gonna get his ass whipped in every but there's no way he's not gonna yeah I don't I don't all of his fights seem like they really made sense and then this one just seems like really kind of out of left field but I guess he was asking for it for a while well he wanted to fight Gervonta Davis which was a dude that was pretty like 5 '6 or something and now he's going the other way but it was interesting seeing them face off yesterday i don't know if you saw them and seeing like the difference in size and also the strength he's so much bigger and stronger and they were like doing that thing where they were like grabbing each other's hand and then you could see joshua is so much stronger yeah that's terrifying all of a sudden i'm very very invested in this because i'm just like what are you doing dude like yeah the whole jake paul thing seems like it's just been so well crafted yeah and then i have a hard time imagining how this is like a brilliant chess move well he is the business behind it that makes everything he does a good chess move right doesn't he own all this stuff and no for sure he's gonna make tens of millions of dollars probably for for sure but it seemed like he always was good at going against someone where it seemed interesting enough but where ultimately he knew he could win yeah and i don't really understand how this one goes in that direction but hey maybe we're gonna look like idiots because it'll probably be out after the fight actually takes place okay yeah i i i have i don't think we'll look like idiots i think it's tomorrow so for sure today yeah it's tonight i think it's today let me see oh hell yeah that's gonna be sick yeah i think it's today i'm excited I'm excited I love boxing so I don't really but I'm not even like I know the boxing purists hate Jake Paul I don't hate Jake Paul I think a lot of the fighters have been kind of douchebag dudes sometimes and they've engaged in like circus show acts too so why not Jake and he's like really taking it serious so I can't be mad at it you know okay the main card starts at 8pm east coast time tonight which means five o 'clock east but then the main the main card starts so jake paul will go on at 10 30 p.m east coast time which is 7 30 p.m here nice i'm excited yeah but um yeah that's good right now yeah we can just include this retention i mean it's not it's not gonna uh necessarily have them on the hook too much since they're already going to know who won at this point.

1:39:47Yeah. Take out my part where I was by myself, editor, please. Oh, yeah. I didn't really carry it, but I apologize. Nah. Yeah, content is crazy. I've been thinking about just I've been here for four years, which is crazy to me. So you've been here for how long? I was trying. Ten. I was showing my brother the clip of you and Munchie, and I was like people and people always make fun of this and I was like Adam 22 I told him this would be so much more intimidating if he acted this way all the time right because he's actually like a bigger dude in person and then I was like my brother asked me like did he always kind of do this content I was like no he actually used to do old like biking content and I showed him like the old biking content and he was like so like whoa but my brother's like doesn't pay attention to any of this so he was like and I was like yeah he lived in williamsburg i was like damn man it's like so this guy's been around doing all types refreshing wild cherry cola meets smooth cream

1:40:54the treat you deserve pepsi wild cherry and cream treat yourself stuff and just like everybody's journey on youtube is interesting like seeing you in williamsburg brooklyn is freaking crazy to me i mean i'm not gonna lie like the one biggest regret that i have just in general everything content wise i just wish i had started it earlier you know but one thing that really like just gnaws away at me when i really think about it sometimes is like i used to really have this vision where i was gonna do i was gonna go and do content with rappers and then like take my bike riding footage and put it you know together with the rappers so it would be like i would just have a rapper freestyle and then i would put all my bmx footage that i had filmed that month over it and i had i would like message rappers i would actually like message my myspace or email them or whatever and i always love this idea and it's like i just wish that i had like done that one time because i would have realized that it wasn't that hard to go do content with a rapper because i just like i'm white kid from new hampshire like i just grew up thinking that like freeway is a god like that this i have no business trying to talk to freeway you know i have no business trying to like how could i ever email jim jones or some shit you know which is like at that time those are the people that i would have really wanted to do content with and i just wish that i had like put my neck out there because i i knew that i had enough knowledge to do bmx content but i didn't have the confidence that i knew enough about rap to do content which what you really need is you don't you don't need the actual knowledge you just need to have the confidence to do it you know yeah i feel like that's the conundrum for every youtuber every podcaster that doesn't start if they feel like i don't have what it takes or i don't not knowledgeable or you can bring yourself to someone else that you might have saw on tv and be like this guy who talks about it um i know with me i have a similar story where it's like why didn't i start when they were breaking up yeah if i had started my youtube channel right when rory and maul were breaking up with oh my God I would be like a hundred Thousand maybe two hundred thousand subs up Because not that subs is the Most important thing nowadays but That was when my voice would have been Needed really And it might be another moment like that coming for me Soon but who knows But that was a big mistake on my part Another moment When Queensflip gets fired Who's getting like I'm trying to think What the next big no jumper moment I mean Melissa Ford the evening was kind of a big deal Yeah that was a big deal that was a big deal I just think Rory Amal and Joe's breakup is the biggest thing ever.

1:43:33It's like, even like I saw somebody talking about it. It colors every podcast decision, even outside of the space in which it existed. And it mimics, and it is like the George Washington story of him crossing the, the river is like almost adjacent to Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon. Like every story follows that parallel after. and even y 'all breakup was compared to that. These and Meryl's breakup was compared to that. Julian and Rory's breakup was compared to that. That is the one that I had to have. I should have been out there. Yeah, but okay. See, that pisses me off because it's like Rory and Maul, why did they leave?

1:44:13Money. They wanted more ownership or they felt like they were not getting an honest glimpse into the business from Joe Budden, right? Nobody can say that they left because of money. for you yeah okay it's just like no no i never really like like the ad thing like that wasn't my money that was just about him trying to like do his own thing yeah but then they masked it with this idea that i had done something to them but then ultimately when it comes down to it they can't actually explain well adam they were what the culture's feeling they felt like that which is why it's so funny looking at their views now it's like but that actually is a weirdly consistent thing because rory maw left yeah and it's like they get what maybe 20k per episode back then they were doing like 50 60 now it's like 20 30 yeah that's dark i'm not gonna lie that's pretty rough but same thing with ad and them like they thought they were gonna leave and do better than no jumper now they get like 20k a stream well it's hard to delineate i i feel like when you're on a platform it's hard to tell what's you and what's that like what's the platform like when Stuart Scott's on ESPN, how much of it is ESPN?

1:45:20How much of it is Stuart Scott? There's some people who shine that it's like, it's undeniable. Like I think Mark Lamont, Brick Baby. Who would have put them in the same? But yeah. But there's other people who are like, the infrastructure, being able to record and it look good. And, you know, the money's coming in. Like, I really struggle to know what Ebro's going to do without that hot 97 check. How is Rosenberg, Laura, gonna be able to stand without that hot 97 banner even though it's lost a lot of its luster um these platforms really help people stick together uh even though maybe they shouldn't now all right so okay i'm gonna look ebro laura rosenberg laura rosenberg show yeah they did like three episodes so they've done i think two episodes right two episodes first one killed it 113k second one 50k that's not great i'm not gonna lie that's that at the rate that that's going they're gonna be in the 20k club too pretty soon which i just wonder like where where do you see them fitting in do you think do you think that they will average 100 000 an episode at any point no okay i don't know do you think they'll average 50k per episode because if the second like okay historically when you leave a platform i think it's fair to say that your first episode on a new platform will do at least 10 000 times or no excuse me at least at least 10 times what your content will average out to meaning 10 000 they're saying they're gonna do 10 000 i mean okay i think about rory and maul yeah i think if you go back to their first episode just them?

1:47:08What is it? Like half a million maybe? I think it was a little more. 700 ,000 or something because it was the first episode back. And then they end up settling into something that is actually less than 10%. 761 ,000. Yeah. And they started, yeah, I think 70 ,000 was a good accuracy. So they're actually really doing like 5 % of what their original first episode. Okay, Figmunity, they left. I think their first episode was 500k yeah now they average 50k on the group pod that they do together so that's like 10 percent you know i think that that honestly that's pretty fucked up because that means that ebro and them are going to be trying to like create a business out of a podcast that i mean i'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say maybe it settles in at 20k and but if they're Every day?

1:48:03Every day? That's going to be tough, man. Then it's really going to degrade. That's not like, oh, it's going to get better. No, that's like it's going to degrade, I think. Yeah, it just looks like the rollout was weird because they were initially trying to keep E-Ro in the mornings, and they changed it to E-Ro, Laura Rosenberg, which I think they knew they couldn't keep. But I don't see them being able to stick out. I don't see them doing anything different than what they did on Hot 97. And without the guests coming through, without the promotion and all that stuff, it's going to be very difficult.

1:48:30but at the end of the day I don't think they're that engaging I don't think that their takes are going to be remember Juan Epstein? Cypher Sounds and Rosenberg continue to do that it gets a couple thousand views an episode I went and looked the other day I was talking to somebody about it and I was just like dude Juan Epstein 2 ,000 views on a full episode granted probably does better on audio platforms can't be doing that much brother that's pretty bad well they've done things to their brand that was really weird i remember they did like this narrative podcast that was about how great jay-z is and i was like dumb shit i kind of vaguely i remember because one epstein which it feels like almost nobody remembers besides me and maybe you and like you know other people who are really like focused on that early podcast era i remember them folding it up or hanging it up and just deciding like oh okay we can't compete and And that's when like their biggest competition, like the only podcast that they were really competing against was like Joe and combat Jack, which when you look back at that, this is like there, I think that they hung it up in like 2016, 2017, the very early days of podcasting.

1:49:43But I mean, to be fair, they probably saw the writing on the wall and realized that they weren't going to be able to compete with everybody. Yeah. But I mean, shit, like, doesn't it look now like it would be better to have a podcast that was, you know the the eighth most popular new york podcast than to just be like trying to start from scratch yeah like i don't know rosenberg always like rubbed me a weird way because he was somebody that i kind of like looked up to uh just from a podcasting perspective and then like he hits me up in like 2017 he's going with me he's such a fan he's so impressed comes through does the interview good solid interview and then he just like unfollows me at some point doesn't even say anything about it and i've like i i think i heard a clip of him once i'm saying like oh like you know i don't like what no jumpers kind of become with a lot of the crazy antics or whatever like i'll give a but i mean i don't know it's just weird how people like come in because i think at that time he thought like that he was he was a radio guy yeah it's like no at some point you're going to become just a youtube content creator too and then you're going to be like looking at this shit like oh why is my audience like 10 of his when he's got all these stripes as a hip-hop content creator i guess yeah these guys the radio guys always talk about like where they see media going and they never seem to know where media is going yeah like i saw ebro a couple months ago say like yo the way this station is going i don't know how long but be here and then when he gets laid off he acts shocked i was like and that whole thing would tell me they they weren't prepared to start a youtube channel um and i don't think they'll be together past seven months you think seven months because that's like question is like if they do a podcast and it actually gets 10 000 views per episode it's gonna be really difficult to get sponsors even with like all their experience they probably have a bunch of relationships with brands that are like gonna be the kind of brands like i think the thing that could save them and help maybe keep it afloat a little bit is like if they are just able to utilize their network of connections to get guests consistently like at first i like i saw ebro tweeting like oh i got tyler the creator and i was like oh and then i realized that was the apple thing yeah yeah so that's not like on that show but a lot of that's got to carry over right like oh tyler i've interviewed you 10 times on apple music will you do me and rosenberg show i mean it's possible right maybe you could get that off on apple i know certain platforms you can't be doing that right if i have somebody on no jumper and then i'm like yo come to my show you can be a mother yeah but nah i uh i i don't think they talk about anything that unique and even i was listening to how they used to have the music in the background they used to have ether playing like underneath like that matters to me and i think it just looks and feels like a different type of thing now it feels like a two-bit production yeah it's just like one epstein yeah i mean they just had a lot of like importance that was sort of layered upon their existence yeah because of the radio thing for me personally like i lived in new york from 2004 to 2010 yeah that's fire i never listened to the radio even then like even then i was buying mixtapes downloading music off now right and all these hip-hop blogs never during that time period did I ever listen to the radio?

1:53:10And like, you would hear it driving around and stuff, but like, I mean, it's just become so much less important. Yeah. But the idea that like, these guys are going to be able to like, matter. Like, I would argue that even with like, the power of the radio, that Rosenberg, like, he's totally irrelevant, right? Yeah. I feel like his biggest things are ESPN and WWE. I don't ever, I never, but throughout my life, I never really met anybody like, you heard what Rosenberg said? It's never been like that. No. I remember Rosenberg hosting Rolling Loud in like 2016, 2017. It was like him and Yes Jewels on stage.

1:53:47Yeah. And I remember just thinking like, no, that ain't it. This ain't going to work. And sure enough, he never did it again. But like that to me was crazy because like I'm looking at it and I'm seeing him host Rolling Loud and I'm like, oh, like he thinks he's me. Like he thinks that this audience gives a fuck about him. Yeah. And they don't at all. yeah it's hard for them to think that there's youtubers who are more valuable to the culture in terms of like certain subsets of music um like they probably think academics should never get certain looks because they're from hot 97 yeah and they could never wrap their head around that flaco might be more relevant to certain sections and they care more about the work he puts in and i always felt like i don't know how much work these guys put in for them to talk down on people like they've been on hot 97 all these years the check always came on every other week so I mean you got to give it to academics that his rant where he juxtaposed Ebro telling him that he was not actually independent and that actually he's a slave to YouTube and Twitch and then hey everybody go follow my YouTube channel like putting those two things side by side that was a classic performance you should not I would hope that if I had some corporate job that I would not speak about it so boastfully that it would be that easy for my enemy to use it against me going forward like that's just you didn't have to do that those guys were like that though they were arrogant when it came to that radio stuff i mean you could listen to the radio you can listen to the way they used to run that station the way they were hiring talent was very much like you guys are supposed to be happy to be working at mountain olympus we could have other people and this has kind of been fun to see that the this all and it's even funny that ebro sees charlamagne with this 200 million dollar deal he sees joe budden kind of announcing that he makes 20 million dollars a year off of patreon only and i can't help but think if they think like man i really f***ed this up like early but even i'm sure you even with all of the negative things people have to say about you their business model is stronger than theirs ag's business model is stronger than theirs floccles business model is stronger than theirs uh and they got a thing like they was at the ground level one epstein was on hot 97 rosenberg said that he had a chance to produce for drink champs and the joe budden podcast they could have really made a business out of this nobody feels worse about all this than rosenberg because he started the joe budden podcast and you you recall i'm sure these early episodes where i remember joe like talking to him and he's like off mic and just talking to him like he's just a total flunky it's hard and like rosenberg just kind of having to take it yeah and then he gets boxed out he's like not a part of it like a month later yeah that was unbelievable from twitter right they don't even know that he helped found the company and created the name yeah but yeah hey that's what problems with legacy media is people think it's always gonna be around but that i mean just imagine how fried you had to have been like any time in the last 10 years to look at youtubers and look at independent content creators and to think i work at the radio my spot is never going away like y 'all are some peasants what i got going on this shit ain't going nowhere it's like yeah i run newspaper i write newspaper yeah exactly i work at the nashua telegraph y 'all can't tell me shit y 'all on youtube i work at the telegraph yeah bro but even that like right there i was like not super close to it but i remember the newspaper because i used to deliver the newspaper and i used to sometimes like do a school field trip go to the newspaper like it's funny right you know like a five minute drive from where i grew up and i would just look at it as this like prestigious publication and when i look at it now like i go to the website or like hear about it it's just like holy like the local newspaper where grew up have just been torn apart there's nothing you go on their side and they be like please sign up to read it's like you're whoring yourself out you see the paper yeah the tv show oh no which one is that it's like uh it's it's like a sequel to the office oh okay and i think it's on apple plus yeah and it's about a local town newspaper that exists in the same universe as the office so oscar on it and Bob Vance is on it.

1:58:11But it's like just about how pathetic basically it is to work at a newspaper in this day and age. Yeah, it is very low key. And that was the thing about Hot 97 is I felt like in order to keep those jobs, you have to engage in some shady backroom stuff. There's been a lot of people who think that Ebro sniped the morning show from Rosenberg and Seifer. I don't know how true that is, but I do hear a lot about it. And even there's like people are saying Funk Flex is now running with an iron fist because he gets the highest ratings. So, shaky bakey. I just think that they're feeling like they you know, there still is going to need to be one person who's able to tether them to the actual culture.

1:58:57And that that apparently is Flex. And that they've realized that really ultimately what Flex, or what Rosenberg and Ebro bring to the table is not really that valuable. and that you know you've all seen a lot of rumors about who they might be replacing him with or whatever i mean what rumor is like did you see any tangible stuff i saw you talking about miro right yeah but i don't think that's real you don't think it's real okay yeah i feel as if they are going to go in the direction that's younger but i don't know how serious hot 97 can get unless they embrace youtube and that youtube page is a little weird uh like they need to make sure whoa we didn't even think about that breakfast club going to youtube right where they part 97 tries to fill that void i mean breakfast club going out on netflix no yeah totally i mean that that is kind of because you know from my perspective the joe rogan podcast kind of lost relevance when they were a spotify exclusive granted obviously i don't think rogan resents that decision at all but you know and i'm sure that they continue to grow plenty of fans during that time but for sure their reach was hurt and when they came back i am a lot more cognizant of like who is on the joe rogan podcast now i'm a lot more likely to listen to an episode even though in reality i am not likely to listen to an episode of that podcast at this point in my life but yeah i mean definitely i could see that that the breakfast club as much as it's being touted as a big look it will decrease their relevance right yeah like people go to netflix but people don't go to Netflix like Twitter or YouTube, right?

2:00:36Yeah. And Netflix is probably suggesting the new episode of Stranger Things versus the new episode of Breakfast Club. We'll see how they manage that. Because I believe they'll give the Breakfast Club a bunch of attention and a bunch of relevance on their platform. Maybe there's even like a separate podcast section. You know when you scroll through and it's like coming soon section, historical documentary section. I could see the podcast section lasting on the homepage for quite some time. But if they're not getting returns on it, if people aren't choosing to watch the Joe Budden podcast over a British Bake Off, I could see that section disappearing pretty quickly.

2:01:15and at that point if Netflix isn't doing a lot to drive people to your content pretty quickly it's going to become a situation in which your content is now on this siloed platform but the promotion that you're getting is like almost non-existent I mean that's tough I think the Joe Budden's fans will switch platforms I don't know if the Breakfast Club fans are going to switch platforms. This shit is a paywall and I'm like it was not being positioned that way yeah because everybody because Netflix has good branding yeah look at Netflix as like a pretty cool platform that a lot of people have 300 million dollars I mean 300 million subscribers spending 13 dollars a month it's just like a different beast and what they have to incentivize is is gonna be crazy I don't know man I think it's a bad idea but I also think it's a great idea it's prestige it's a prestige play uh and but there's also I think what you kind of alluded to what if this what if Netflix is like this shit is worthless like Spotify finds out like like Spotify invested in all these pod well I said that will almost almost without question happen not now that it's worthless but they're gonna figure out the worth the the signing these platforms in the short term is worth so much more than what they're worth in the long run so from my perspective yeah I mean like there's no chance that like whatever Charlemagne's getting for putting his content on netflix or whatever all these people are getting it is so much more than anybody will ever get right okay again like what academics got from spotify is so much more than anyone will ever get from spotify again they're just not giving those advances the same way that apple music uh did exclusive releases with you know a couple of different albums and then they just never did it again they didn't have to once they got it out the way you know yeah you make the machine more bigger than anything like the program yeah I I I like that idea of diminishing returns.

2:03:12We have these initial big deals that make a splash and then we sell this shit. Because really what's part of the goal? The part of the goal is to get us to just pay attention to the fact that Netflix has podcasts. And to compete with YouTube. Yeah. But two years from now, nobody's going to give a shit. It's going to be, oh yeah, Netflix has podcasts. Of course they have podcasts. They've had podcasts for a couple of years now. Why would they, they don't need to like broadcast it to the world in the same way anymore. And so in a couple of years, it'll just be like a distant memory. Remember when Charlamagne and all of them got money from...

2:03:41But maybe Charlamagne is the only person who's really benefiting from this. Do you think that Rory and Ma... Well, I guess they all were having separate conversations. But if it's more than a rev share, which it probably is, it's probably just an advance against the rev share, right? You think it's a rev share? I think in the long run it becomes a rev share. Because Spotify is a rev share for people like us now. Okay. We get money from it, but it's not like... In the long term, but right now. what deal has Netflix done when they've done rep share maybe with Jake Paul and NFL well you're right that they don't have a history that it's always an up front but like and they're paying iHeart I think I don't think they're paying okay so Rory and Maul are with iHeart they're with the volume but Rory was saying on the pod today that they dealt with iHeart directly but I know Rory's my guy i sometimes think rory is just so deathly afraid of being saved like being seen inside to iheart that he just tries to act like iheart is no part in his pod but his pod says brought to you by iheart so even though there's science of the volume iheart and the volume are so intertwined that um i don't know if he presents the deal in the way that i don't know i'm not saying he's a liar but i just don't know if the deal comes across like that do you think the rory and wall podcast has been a success overall or do you think that it's just being propped up by these sort of corporate deals that they get well isn't isn't signing a deal of success i think if you keep able to get deals it's a success i guess yeah but if the if you keep getting signed to different corporations who basically are helping to keep you alive by giving you an advance on the income that you're going to bring and then you keep over and over and over proving that you're not actually able to deliver on this advance and you're just basically being like passed around between different corporate uh overlords is that success or is that like being able to survive can be a success but i feel i believe they said the the cool thing and maybe the crazy thing is that Rory and Maul are pretty tapped in in terms of the representation.

2:06:04I remember Maul saying Rich Paul was behind the serious deal. And I'm like, Rich Paul is crazy. You have the guy who manages LeBron James. So it's like maybe they, by sheer force of goodwill, have laid in bed. I hope that's not a negative term. But are tied in with people that will always get them a deal just because of how cool people they are. yeah i mean they are like regardless of if their views are pretty bad like they're well known like loyal audience everybody knows about them i think that they seem like they do a pretty good job of playing the game being tapped in with the industry and everything like that i feel like you know in comparison no jumper obviously there's like way more views but i'm not really out here shaking hands and kissing babies yeah i feel like rory's rory's a guy who like went to college was able to play that game worked professionally in the industry all these years he's able to play that game yeah he's going to be able to figure out the podcasting game i'm not so good at doing this they don't ruffle feathers really so they're able to get these deals they're able to they're safe yeah and i think one day if they ever fall out of a deal we might see the unsafe version of them but i don't think that's going to happen they had three deals right serious studio 71 and now they're on the volume aka iheart um let's see what happens next now they're on netflix because of the volume i mean that's like from my perspective the idea of like doing a podcast and the podcast not having to sink or swim on the basis of how much money it's actually earning right now is so bizarre and so crazy because i didn't live like you couldn't do that right no like this business has to like pay for itself and like the idea of like having an advance to keep it alive is so bizarre to me um but you know i do i support them i i want to see them do well but the idea that you like need that in order to survive is just kind of insane to me i don't know i think they'll persist just because of what we said before the industry connections and the people that believe in them and like them like mall yeah but maybe also there's like a a cheaper version of this of this business that they're running do you think like maybe they're just like spending too much like how many employees does it really take for you guys to like show up at an office and record twice a week for a couple hours rory's producing pods now too i think he was doing the prince miller bot i heard you point that out and i mean still but i'm just like that's not necessarily like a great sign right when you're when you're kind of like doing the manual labor part of the job for other people yeah i get it but it's kind of like when i thought about renting out our space to let other people record here yeah that wasn't exactly an indication of my confidence in the business that was really more of an indication of like damn we got a pension save every penny man yeah no jumper media now i feel like uh i often do look at their thing and i think it's too blow it for the numbers that they get like oh yeah i was like i wouldn't this is me and far be it for me they're way more successful than i am at making a podcast and most people but they're like thumbnails are like really like high end i'm like why do you need a thumbnail like that but i do kind of feel like that's like they clearly put so much time and energy into these thumbnails that what you don't think no they do they do more than we do for sure yeah it's painstaking time like it's like hot elite and it just kind of stands out to me as like shit like i would not do that i would not have ever thought that that would actually be worth it but then i kind of do think it's worth it because stick out it stands out to me when i'm scrolling through twitter isn't enough to actually make me watch it no probably not but it's probably a lot lot better than them just posting a picture of them standing there like like joe's thumbnails are the thumbnails of someone who feels like he doesn't really have to try yeah it's just everybody's standing there some level of quality like a good picture academics was making this point about how you could rent a studio and how some folks are like like he was saying vlad rents this studio in new york city he's like it costs too much and i was thinking about the need to know they rented a studio in williamsburg that i think is like 10 000 a month and i'm like you guys are not and but granted you could rent that studio if you're a podcaster and book it to make your own podcast but i was thinking at the end of the day this just seems bloated and i back to rory mall they have a studio in manhattan and i was like damn why not jersey why not a place with cheaper real estate why not your house why not because you could pay somebody 15 000 to create a studio similar to something like this maybe not as good big problem i was like you don't really want people coming into your crib right thousand percent but you could rent an apartment complex or not but you could rent like you know another spot kind of use like canal street which probably it costs the arm and the leg when i hear you lay out how much that shit is i'm like whoa because literally if you search podcast rentals around here yeah you can find so many spots for like 40 bucks an hour what video yeah i don't know you probably have to do a lot of it yourself but like so i i was talking about renting the spot for other people to use it and one of my employees basically like convinced me not to do it by just pulling up how many other places were available locally for like shitty ass rates damn in new york is really hard there was a place i found that's like really cheap but everybody else i don't know why wheezy and mandy charge so much i really don't i really it's some of the stuff don't make sense but maybe i know they're gonna attack me well mandy really i think it it the reason why i say i can afford it but the reason why i say that these this thing doesn't generate that much money so unless you make money i don't see it i mean for them it's supply and demand they got x amount of hours per week and if people are down to pay 200 bucks an hour then they're going to charge that and if that doesn't work then they're probably going to drop that rate to 150 an hour or 100 an hour or whatever you got to do i mean you know really ultimately they got a finite resource in terms of hours of available recording but there's also shows that do like whole seasons because they're backed by corporations or have a lot of money so yeah no definitely i mean even yeah i hate the feeling of like knowing that i'm paying for the space while i'm recording just knowing that like if i spend an extra hour here that i'm like making more money off the content but also losing money because i have to spend more on you know the rental that just doesn't feel great yeah they charge you for like a furniture change they're like 20 bucks you made this move us uh sofa but bro wait really yeah oh my god wait wait You know who's the genius though?

2:12:51And I always say, what would Vlad do? What would Vlad do? If you want to know what the right thing to do is in this space, you can largely just look to Vlad and do what he's doing. Because Vlad, not far from here, while I sit here in a very expensive office building, which I purchased, Vlad has a co-op studio rental. So he is going to record from noon to three. He's got an interview to do. he puts it on the schedule that he needs the studio from noon to three and if it's me doing the interview from noon to three i'm walking out of there and there's three white guys with guitars walking in those same those drums you see in the background of the dj vat set there is a person playing those drums what is that like they there's a they share the space so it's like some band is using the space to record once vat is done oh wow i didn't know that and that works out great for him because think about it one of the dumbest parts about us owning this spot which i didn't really think about it until we had it is that this space is sitting here not in use on saturday and sunday and you know for like 15 hours at night as opposed to the hours that were in there recording and like doesn't really make that much sense to pay for a space unless you're going to be using it like a lot and uh yeah if i had to kind of go back i probably would have done something like that but for i i have different needs too i can't nobody's telling me that i'm recording for three hours like i need it for yeah you're a lot of hours every day so now i get it but now vlad is the model i think if you study his moves you'll get far yeah no no thanks you got any more any more topics over there no i don't i had to let me open on my laptop yeah man feed me feed me yeah i just had elliot wilson jim jones oh the jim jones thing is interesting rolling 60s but not yet jim jones is uh i that's another one let's rap about it i don't i don't know one thing that i don't like is that i they got into this beef with um i think about the 50 thing and mano said something like i don't consider myself a podcaster or we don't talk about people and i think and it's not just them because i don't want to make about them there's a lot of people are in this space afraid to say that they're podcasters or content creators and i'm like i think we need to not be afraid to say that like it's okay if you're a podcast creator if you're a content creator may know it's okay it's like this is cool actually yeah there's nothing wrong with that and this realistically as much as you've been a rapper for a long time this is probably going to be more beneficial for you financially so you probably shouldn't be talking about it like it's not something to avoid anymore i mean okay as far as new york-based podcasters slash hip-hop personalities i feel like and you know we're kind of like lumping in a bunch of different things but like you have like joe and ak are kind of like number one okay and then charlamagne yeah who has the breakfast club brilliant it is whatever but like it's kind of like those are really the three big dogs I think it's fair to say then you have it kind of feels like Jim is poised to maybe become the next guy if he's actually going to take podcasting seriously I'm not sure about Cameron but he does Cam okay Cam makes a lot of sense yeah it's a different thing you're right you're right yeah Cam is a thing Jim is to me and even Mayno I think Mayno's a true talent I know he got back and forth with Akin you kind of saw him flounder a little I think he just hadn't dealt with somebody who was not gonna stop I remember there was a space or a live where he said I dissed you I mean you dissed me then I dissed you and then you dissed me but you didn't have to go back at me after I dissed you should have just left it I was like that's not how this works anymore in content Akin's always gonna go back and he has this like a system he is able to predict people but yeah Mano to me is really talented I remember he had his own podcast Kitchen Talk I think it was called he was really good at it and he stopped it was like during the pandemic as well but I feel like if he would have kept on he would have had a lot more success I would like to pick apart their dynamic more but I haven't actually really watched anything besides a handful of clips I only watch a couple clips and I always feel like why is it really just needs to be Mano and Jim I don't know why Dave East and Fat fabulous is like star power and davis is like youth power is davis really a youth act i think he's like 37 or something i mean compared to the rest of them you know he feels a lot younger yeah i think it's a lot of like yo we don't talk about that shit we don't we keep it different over here it's like you don't really do that i mean you guys are sitting in front of a mic like everybody yeah that's the funny thing about it is that they all act as if they are above talking about street shit but like what else could you possibly be doing on a podcast when the topic of street shit is coming up like that's the one thing that i really felt like brick baby was kind of revolutionary in podcasting because i had sat there for so much time with dudes like ad and t-rel or whoever who are like street dudes quote unquote but then i just get i sit down with brick baby and he's just saying the craziest shit but it's real he's like talking about uh i think he's talking about like uh the the oblock five and fbg duck they got basically the oblock members who went and killed fbg duck and like we're talking about it and he's kind of like you know it's sad man i ain't got nothing against duck but at the end of the day you know you got to respect somebody who goes out and gets they man that's what the streets is all about he's like the streets is all about you're gonna go make money whether it's through drugs or or or music or whatever and then you're gonna go take your enemies out yeah he's just sitting there saying this and i'm like thank you i'm like that's what all these motherfuckers are saying in their songs yeah and nobody will ever admit that that like when it comes to gangsters yeah yes there's like a very clear-cut thing that happens here they get money and then a lot of times some of that money goes back into guns and whatnot for the hood and some of that money gets put on people's heads and yeah i mean but nobody wants to talk about the ugly side of the streets on podcast that's really what like ice and ish and them are trying to like avoid is is acknowledging the ugly realities you know yeah the grim reality is always i feel like need i i feel like we've created a scenario where like now only street dudes can talk about or like respond to people like i didn't like how joe talked about the whole ak and mayno thing it's like ak shouldn't be talking back to mayno i'm like i feel like why can't we talk they create content i know they're gonna beat your ass yeah but but as in like mayno is gonna f*** him up yeah he was like oh that he should leave that alone but the thing is what what do you do if there is a reality that may know or any i don't want to say may know because i think mayno is actually above it and matured past it but i like what is the reality if somebody can actually get you touched and like if you do get into a back and forth with a gang member who has connections is like but they i don't know you gotta move right but that's crazy but i mean that's reality it's like look at ak i can't leave in the crib without security like but what about the regular dealer what about me if i get into a back and forth where it's a random troy ave like am i supposed to like just be like i don't got the street man i now i gotta move around my job different i gotta go to my nine to five and look different way if i'm you you know my attitude is if you want to do something to me a maybe i got something on me maybe i'm gonna outdo you in this situation that that's number one is that like you got to keep them guessing in the sense like do i have a gun on me do i have a knife on me you don't know so don't pull up on me on some crazy shit because you don't know i honestly think that i would have already got beat up multiple times if it wasn't for the fact that people actually believe that i'm moving around a certain way yeah but you're also a man of means i think and i think people but i don't have security with me like almost ever you don't think people think about oh because you're around these people that it may not be a good idea to touch adam maybe is a little bit of that but i think just in general like you know people you you got to keep them guessing and then in addition to that you got to like let them know i will press charges against you oh i'll do that i have nothing against that Like if Maino beats my ass, then I'm going to sue you.

2:21:32I'm going to sue you civilly and I'm going to press charges in court. So really like once you acknowledge I'm not a street dude, so I can shoot you. And if I will shoot you, I will tell and I will sue you. I got all these superpowers. You can't do multiple things. You can't press charges against me. It's not allowed in your little world. Yeah. especially when there's a content back and forth i feel like if i say adam you dress weird you dress horribly and then your response is i'm gonna body you see you it might but then again there is certain cultural norms that i guess that is acceptable yeah but it's like the more may not puts himself into the podcaster space the more that that's just not gonna be useful like we get it you're tough you know you got you got all this street shit that you've been through in your life that's awesome, makes for good podcasting content, but you just are not going to be able to win an argument back and forth with academics who's not grading himself on that vector.

2:22:36It's like I'm just not trying to tell you I'm tough. So if you prove that you're tougher than me, it doesn't matter. I thought they should have freaked it. I thought they should have tried to talk with Ak on the pod. I thought that would have been kind of fire. And that would have been – well, knowing Ak, there's absolutely no way that he's putting himself in that environment. but just made the one or just one of them it would be smart yeah because you you want to face your critics head on i've had great like this year did a really really couple great interviews with this guy hoover gumby okay and it was 100 just me watching a vlog seeing him talk shit about me and thinking like oh this guy's tight like he's pretty funny he's like good on camera if i uh do content with this guy it'll be really good so yeah you got to be willing to run towards that stuff yeah i mean i don't think it's the same with me like sitting with imani and sitting with um who else i said with rory and julian and all them but it is fun to kind of talk to people and kind of meet in the middle sometimes but i think may know and act got to a point where they didn't even want to meet in the middle and it just there was no dialogue to be had yeah i don't know if they're going to be able to get back to normal um so you know a big one in terms of like me seeing you talk about stuff and me kind of having to go on your word because you know i wanted to sign mona why is it always trying to sign flip okay me dm and flip about signing him that was a joke but like with mona like i interviewed her actually god you you should watch that interview for there's got to be something to it that is uh going to be useful i'm guessing uh to your business but I think that yeah she and I had a great conversation and I saw the vision and I knew that she was with Breakbeat Media at the time which I already knew was probably not going to last but yeah we saw her go through the whole trials and tribulations of the breakfast club they didn't apparently want her and then now she's doing the Joe Biden thing but do you feel like her spot is secure right now or do you feel like it's very much in jeopardy because it seems like she's got a lot of star power but she's having a hard time fitting in yeah you could tell that the structure of the joe bellen podcast weighs on her like having to pod for that long is not something she's used to there's a lot of cutting off there's a lot of her over talking people but she's energized a certain base of the audience and let's be honest she's surrounded by issue nights who don't talk a lot so maybe she feels like she's got to fill in those awkward gaps i think we all been around people who just feel like they have to fill in the silence and that's who she is but do you think with her that her talking about herself all the time is because she lacks the skill set to necessarily discuss the topics in any meaningful way is she is she doing that because she's kind of covering up for her failings she is not researched she does not seem to prep for the show but yeah i do think a lot of my commenters say she's female flip where you know how flip just gets ah if you don't know about something whereas her is like a crazy offhand joke about vagina or something that will happen or it's your eyes are so amazing you look so sexy like she does that a lot uh but how i almost sometimes think like it's working in times but I feel like deep down when Mona lays down her head at night, she's like, I don't like this shit.

2:26:09I feel like that. But the money though. The money and the spotlight is obviously very beneficial for her. But yeah, I mean, I just wonder how it's going to kind of work out because she's definitely someone who has a lot of swag, a lot of style points. But as far as her being able to really have those conversations on a consistent basis i i wonder i wonder how that's gonna go for her because i think she's already figuring out that a lot of you know a lot of the things that she could kind of hang her hat on previously just are not gonna work her saying like oh i hate when non-street dudes talk about street shit it's just not like 2018 anymore yeah you're just not really gonna be able to like endear the fans to you if like we're talking about hack versus mano and that's what you go to that's just not really impressive yeah she went on this tirade about like she was like i hate trump it was alright we understand if you hate Trump it was cool it's fine but you didn't really articulate why you hate and it was like really it felt like a 2016 rant and there was another thing Mona's repeating the same jokes and by the way that academic rant was diabolical he said shit about her that I think will have ramifications in the same way that Rory and Maul the shit he used to say about Rory and Maul will have.

2:27:26Like you think Joe's not gonna be able to fuck with her? No when he said the shit about her I don't I don't want to do this but when he said this shit about the drug addict thing I think him pointing that out might be something that lingers because he's reading Ak has pretty much said in the past that he reads these Reddit message boards and he weaponizes some of the narratives that people have but because he says it on such a big platform it's a different thing but yeah there's just times when it just seems like Mona's a little bit out there in terms of the way she has conversation um but yeah no disrespect to Mona I don't mean to disrespect you salute I am not 100 % sure but I'm pretty sure that when I interviewed her three years ago is going to be my guess I'm pretty sure that the views on her solo podcast were like pretty significant they still are isn't she getting like 10k on her like solo episodes i feel like i saw her with like a 50 60 which is a lot to me really okay yeah that's pretty that's legit especially since it's solo it's by herself too i was just thinking that i just feel like her views have kind of dropped off like a ton over the last couple years i'm not 100 sure if that's true wait I'm actually oh okay so look 21 hours ago she started her own YouTube channel you don't know about this 21 hours ago and this is just from me searching Mona don't call me white girl welcome to Mona Love Media the realest channel on YouTube and the thing about why is because she's not able to use her the channel that she built up with Breakbeat they own that and yeah look was this pap ready cook and crack episode one yeah these are all her old videos rebel hill productions yeah what is rebel hill productions that's maybe somebody that she started this thing with but either way breakbeat apparently she's not allowed to post on there anymore but oh yeah yeah three weeks ago 73k i mean that's hella legit if that's if that's real yeah no yeah that's super good i thought it was bad my apologies i thought yeah no her stuff on breakbeats killer i i think that's something she should be proud of that she's able to even on breakbeat that is not easy yeah i apologize to her because i was about to include her in the queensflip box because i feel like queensflip is always taking credit for like having his own platform and shit and it's like your platform ain't doing shit like your views are not good i think with him it's like short form but i just want to say with mona her comedic timing sometimes shows flashes of brilliance.

2:30:14Like I'm talking about where you hear her talk and it's like something the Joe Budden podcast has never seen before. It's just about how she's going to be able to structure it and do it within the context of the Joe Budden podcast. I don't think she's figured that out yet. Yeah, I have a lot of people. I try a lot of people out as co-hosts who, yeah, it's just like pretty obvious pretty quickly that they don't really got the... Goods? No, like they got the goods, but they as soon as it comes time to sit with a bunch of other people and talk about topics and not talk about yourself so that might be like that i don't know i mean a lot of people i think it's fair to say that probably even the majority of people talk about themselves think about themselves why are you shooting ad man okay that is a great example but i just think it's fair to say that like most people don't really ever even have like a moment where it's like you're really forced to talk about what's going on in the news or you know other people maybe like you talk about people at work you you and somebody else from work are going to talk about how the girl who works on the other side of the office is a bitch yeah so they're okay boom you're having a conversation about somebody else but like most people are not really that invested in the news besides like what they see in short form clips and uh i think she's still kind of figuring that out i wonder how much conversation she's having with joe behind the scenes because joe really needs to be like hammering that home to her like this like you could be great but you gotta shut the fuck up about yourself you're gonna have to like really figure out how to like yeah like don't shut up just shut the fuck up about yourself you mean yeah just like you know you're gonna have to like get better at this you're gonna have to be able to communicate in a little bit more of like a balanced way yeah it's like mark lamont i know he'll be able to carry a conversation forward without inserting inserting himself yeah and he'll be like yeah one of the things i've noticed that you have brought up in this is that you made a good point and that like turnkeys that other person and they start to think about things yeah on the pot and and he comparatively if he were to just talk about himself all the time has a lot more to talk about realistically simply he's pretty active in life yeah but i mean uh yeah i heard a quote a long time ago like uh i don't know who said it but like dumb people talk about other people no dumb people talk about themselves smart people talk about oh wait no dumb people talk about other people smart people talk about ideas i can't even remember it's been so long i can't even remember but like the gist of it is is like different levels of intelligence like a lot of people can only talk about themselves that's one level then like being able to talk about other people is another level being able to talk about ideas is the real level yeah yeah but is it really just that don't you have to do it in an entertaining way as well and that's a big part of the problem too yeah because I can talk about the theory of the Overton window but if I don't make it entertaining yeah it doesn't matter that's why I like people who have the freedom to make videos about whatever they want that's always going to be Joe shocking Joe can do that you feel I feel like Joe can talk about bullshit and be like like he could walk into a studio and be like man the engineer he was having a discussion he was wearing white uptowns and i was thinking about how white uptowns used to mean something in new york but they don't mean that no more and then that whole becomes like a 37 minute discussion and people start oh but white uptowns do matter and it's like i see him do it on the pod all the time and even i think there was another time where he was talking about do you have choice in life or is it all predetermined that's talking about an idea yeah yeah no definitely yeah when yeah like uh i heard them talking about uh was it side chicks oh no you you were talking about them talking about uh guys who hide their emotions from their significant other in a relationship to keep up a good impression yeah and i heard you talk about them talking about that i'm like see that's a pretty high level podcast topic because it's like you don't even necessarily have an example of who you're talking about you don't necessarily need that it's more of just like an idea and i don't actually know anyone who does that i don't think so maybe that's why emotions i don't think that would ever really occur to me because i don't really know what dudes are doing with their girls hiding their emotions i mean i think that's a common trope is that that's what ish was playing into is that dudes feel like they can't put too much on their women either because they seem like they're weak or that they'll stress their women out and uh but maybe that's an outdated trope and that's one thing ish also falls into is he falls into these like extreme analogies about things and i think it's part of his problem um but he's a big part of the podcast so i think people rock with it yeah yeah no definitely so uh okay shout out danny from the stop everybody gonna watch his channel yeah man uh danny from the stop subscribe to the patreon too you going right back to the east coast or no i'm gonna go back to texas oh you've just been spending time out there or what no no i just i'm just visiting yeah i'm gonna i'm a new yorker though yeah but you got a situation you got family there yeah okay i don't want to reveal that but yeah i do but yeah so i'm happy to be here burbank gotta watch out in texas though what happened that's where all the drill rappers go now for real yeah like a lot of times i'll be talking on a drill rapper and then I'll slowly start to realize that they live in Houston.

2:35:50But not that they interact with people a lot in Texas, that they move to Texas and just stay in the crib. A lot of those drill type dudes are just so paranoid. They're not going to Applebee's. Smart. I don't think I have any friction with drill rappers, so I'll be okay. Yeah, not that much overlap, but maybe you'll get there. Shout out my boy Danny from the Stop. Go watch his channel. If you enjoyed this interview, like, comment, and subscribe. And we'll be back real, real soon. You know what they say. Early Bird gets the ultimate vacation home. Book early and save over$120 with Verbo. Because early gets you closer to the action.

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