Kato Kaelin on The Alleged D4vd Murder, OJ Simpson's Death, Life After OJ & More

48:44Because you would kind of think that if he had confided in anybody about the truth of that night, that that might have came out around the time of his passing. Do you know of anything like that? No, nothing of that. And I've always wondered, like his closest friends, you know, was AC. I don't know. I can't, you know, everybody can speculate, but that was his brother. Right. That's the guy in the Bronco. What was that slow Bronco chase? It was so many hours. what was said was their confession i you know you have a best friend i'm sure if you tell your best friend everything i'm so maybe we never heard a word from him ever again i mean that's a heavy burden to carry with you to never confide in yeah anyone that's what and by the ac was so close to nicole like honestly she he adored her now does he know everything i don't know who's to say but But he was...

49:37So he's still alive and has never spoken publicly? I don't think he's ever even done an interview. Wow, that's so interesting. Yeah, and also Rosie Greer was the minister, the OJ's priest, sort of. I went into jail, I always talked to him. And he asked him to confide in him, so we never know because it's sort of like an attorney-client privilege. So we never heard from him either, Rosie Greer. I don't know if he's living still or not. but uh there was a thing when someone said that possibly oj had talked to him and told him everything who knows uh everything's speculation so on an opinion so i don't know but i think you're you're right don't you want to confess before you're gonna die to someone and maybe he's got his own maybe he's in hell i don't know yeah who who's who do you talk to it's very easy to imagine him being able to you know not disclose this publicly but you would just think like if you had any kind of but then again like okay if he gets in a relationship with a woman why give her that leverage over you you can't tell her i mean if you're if you're smart at all and that's the amazing thing about it this is like one of the dumbest murders ever he just took like no steps to prevent himself from being caught how are you such a bad criminal and then as soon as you're done the murder you become so tight-lipped that you never put anything out there that just seems like it doesn't align right i think possibly the dream team that he had convinced him and said we can get you off this thing yeah i also think that he got to a point where he he believes his lies so much that he thought i didn't do it because i think you start sociopathically you start thinking i didn't do it you convinced yourself that i have nothing to do with this thing and you know seeing from day one the interview and the interviews by the way are brilliant from um lang and venetter on the first interviews and you uh i got to hear some of them and you think oh my god he he's saying i'm so sorry guys i'm so sorry and they're like what are you sorry about and the phone call there he never once asked about the kids who doesn't ask about when your wife is uh murdered you don't first say well where are the kids was that he never mentioned the thing about that yeah he just said i'll be down i'll take the first flight out of chicago whatever so you know he never brings it up from your time spent with him and being that you're older now you're maybe better at putting together your opinion of him from a psychological perspective do you look at him as somebody who was just so egotistical so filled with his own hubris that that he just was like a real, true, genuine psychopath that just didn't care about anybody?

52:20Yeah, 100 % psychopath. Yeah, he's 100%. I actually had a girl who at the time came by and all that, and OJ had tennis courts and that, and she and I were hitting tennis balls and there's a basketball court there. And I went to the bathroom, and so later on she came up and just said, he asked me how he's hitting on me. And I didn't care, I wasn't attached to her, but she was a date that I had that he's picking her up because I was nobody to him. I just had to guess us until I find another one. So yeah, he hit on there. And, you know, I said, my God, you have to meet my girl that you're OJ and NBC broadcast you millions in Brentwood.

52:59And why would you want to take, like I said, I didn't care. But I was like, any other person's like, you're hitting on the ground with this is kind of low class. Yeah. So, but I think, I think he did that a lot. I really, I really think that was his character that he, you know what's funny is because when he had all those things going on in his life with NBC football the hurts all this stuff naked gun movies had everything and he even spoke a little bit different did you I noticed there was a change after the trial he hung around just criminal people his voice changed and he became I guess got dumbed down or something it didn't sound it wasn't the same person he had he kind of just became a lost soul and I think is he went just a complete dive it's interesting because that character sketch that you just supplied is kind of very similar to a lot of rappers that i know and i'm not even talking about like the killer rappers who are actually like you know convicted or accused of that kind of stuff but more like these guys just get their ego pumped up to such an extreme degree that that like hitting on this random person's girl when realistically you the girl that you're on a date with probably means so much more to you even if it wasn't serious but you're a regular guy how many girls do you get to go on a date with in the course of a year i mean it's not that insane of an amount but for him this is literally nothing you could be with a supermodel tomorrow if you wanted but like that that kind of thing is like the kind of thing that i do see rappers get their ego inflated to such an extent that they just cease to treat anybody like they have any humanity everybody is just kind of fodder but i also get it because i see the way it is for them at shows or when people are around is like that feeling of everybody wanting your attention it becomes so easy for them to kind of dismiss their humanity oh right when you start believing when your ego takes over you're dead and that's the truth and you can ask i don't like you said your world is rapper i don't know i know some but if you're not i'm not putting them down i don't but if a person is not educated and their family life was kind of fucked up, I think you're going to be fucked up because if you're not, first of all, educated, life is not the same.

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56:13And I think that's why, I mean, like you said, I mean, shootings are, like, really easy to do for some people. I don't think they look at a life. It's gone. You're done. This life is no longer existence. It's out. You consider yourself an empath? Empath? yeah like you're governed by your empathy for other people do you feel other people's pain as opposed to like some people can't even feel i like that term their own pain i probably got the definition empath wrong but but yeah 100 i i i definitely feel pain of other people only because i know what pain is i mean if you don't have pain in your life and all that you don't you you got i think of a person for instance uh david we talked about earlier in the show So I think when you're young and you become very successful and you never suffered, I think that's the worst thing that could happen to you.

57:00If you don't suffer, I don't know if you can relate to certain things in life. You've got to go through. You have to have pain. My belief is that you have to go pain because it makes you grow and you understand. You can see things around you and you go, I understand what they're going through. Yeah. No, I feel like if you make it at 35 or 40, if you, if you, uh, you know, bust tables for 10 years, you're just going to have a much better approach and appreciation for the things that you now have versus like, you know, uh, I don't know if you're familiar with juice world. It was a rapper who died when he was like 21 and we were all around him for a good amount of time.

57:37He ended up basically like overdosing off Percocets when he was 21. But, you know, somebody like him, like I always just looked at him like I wish that you got to feel what it was like to be a normal person because he blew up at like 18. And if I felt like, you know, if he had had that experience of sort of seeing what life was really like, then maybe he wouldn't have felt like it was a good idea to just basically like take as many drugs as he was taking and stuff like that. He would have been able to maybe appreciate what he what he had a little bit more. Right. And what's the where's the point of what was the rapper's name that died?

58:13Juice World. Juice World. When he dies before that, where was where was the thing that happened to it? Like you relate to that the film that came out recently of Elvis when he had his first drug and how that took over his life. When was the same thing with with Juice to have that where you said Percocet? Because it doesn't start. You don't just be, there's got to be a part where, oh, yeah, and you start taking more and more. I don't know, but there has to be, right? You don't just become. But that's the thing with him is that I remember talking to him and him telling me that he was off Xanax at 15 or 16 in high school, which, A, I had a hard enough time in high school off without doing drugs that it's kind of hard for me to imagine going to high school and taking a drug that pretty much literally just wipes your memory.

58:58And you were homeschooled. taking hands with my mom mom mom we go to the prom yeah get rid of your dad no but yeah i mean he's just never i feel like if you start doing hard drugs when you're 15 or 16 you you don't really have an idea of what life is really like without it and that's got to be the hardest thing to get away from yeah like i said it's like yeah i if you have bad people around you you're gonna do bad things so i once again i don't know i'm sure he's a friend of yours great guy and he just believe me he's i'm guaranteed he wishes he didn't do that because he'd still be with us i mean it's a tragedy for everybody because he was a real musical genius like probably the most talented musician that i've ever been around that's amazing and you know even like the people that people compare him to people compare him to post malone and it's kind Post Malone's amazing, but Post Malone has writers.

59:54This kid, Juice WRLD, would get in the studio and just go and just put pure magic onto those beats without even trying. It was pretty unbelievable. Wow. And talking to you, it's like you went through lots of friends of yours past. I mean, the story you just told me about someone yesterday. I mean, you deal with it just the same in people that you know. It just affects you. I think that the empathy you said, you must feel it too. It's like, Jesus, man, it's so young. Okay, so having all these years to reflect and sort of be able to look back at your life, what was the biggest change that happened to who you were as a person as a result of that trial and becoming famous and being in the media?

1:00:41What was the thing about you afterwards that wasn't there before? Is there anything that stands out? I think one of the things was that I don't know if it's before or after, but I was very trusting. I trusted everybody. No one ever tried to do something behind your back. No one knows no way. And I trusted in all these terrible things. We won't get into financially. Everything was, you know, just didn't work out for me and it was all because of trust. So now I've grew up that, you know what, uh, don't trust so easily trust has definitely got to be earned. so that's probably it i think is is that uh success like i said like mentioned i have a blueprint but maybe it wasn't supposed to be this super wealthy person whatever but now everything is 30 years later coming hopefully full circle so i think um is do you i think i learned to have trust in a better way in my life that i just don't become so open about everything like sure or what do you need?

1:01:41I'll help you out. Yeah. That kind of gets taken from you with fame. Oh, yeah. A lot of people come around that just don't have your best intentions in mind. Is there anything that you could share in terms of the people who fucked you over during that time? What's the one that really stands out? I think it would be more relationship-wise of trusting certain women in life beforehand and then getting burnt later. Really? Yeah. And it was like, I think you can kind of tell later that when you're being used. And I feel like back in the 90s, back then, I was this caricature. I really was. People were watching the trial.

1:02:20It was like during the soap opera hours. So I think everybody kind of related to me as a character, not a real person. So that kind of affected me. It's like, okay, I met you. See you. Bye. You know, every time I brought in for any kind of casting, I knew by the fourth time that I got called in for like a major film or whatever it was just a curiosity they had no interest in me just to say that they met so I you can feel that when you're in a room you can kind of tell like oh this is kind of a scam on me again yeah and at one time I this kind of affected my there was a tv show that set up a complete casting and the casting was to do a reading for a film and I read and I studied I did everything I bring notes that you know I went I studied acting yeah And it was all a scam on a TV show to play this tape of me and then re-editing it to make it look.

1:03:10Just horrendous. Really? Yeah. And you, I guess. It was on a major comedy show, major comedy station. That's all I'll say, but. Not punked? No. Okay. But like. No, it was about, it was, it was just kind of the ridicule of, you know, it was like, oh, today we interviewed Kato. Here's what he was doing. And it was like, oh, it broke my, I didn't know until it came out. It really devastated me. just the fact that that many people could work together to do to make you look bad for content and to just completely avoid your humanity oh and it air that's gonna be tough yeah it was uh and it air because people it was just another way to make fun of me yeah so i was like oh man wow they just destroyed me that's crazy did you speak to a lawyer about her or anything no no i just a teflon had a head just slide off me yeah but when did you because i mean at a certain point that limelight kind of dies off and it kind of leaves you with this feeling of oh i was just in the middle of this tornado for a couple years there and now i'm outside of it and life sort of returns to normal to whatever extent i mean it's such a big trial that it's kind of like to a certain extent it never returns to normal but when did that really start to feel like it was kicking in um when it kind of wore off it was probably i'd say 99 2000 i was still getting bits on shows i was getting anything but i saw it and i and i didn't i didn't mind at all i thought okay maybe i can start getting the readings and all that but it didn't go so much that way because there still was this um uh people would always kind of relate the trial i had so many contracts and jobs on those days where it was just no we're not going to do it after all some commercials that did that and there were some commercials i didn't get that were great like um the one that i love the best was like a trivular pursuit of it paid great and that was the the voice of the 90s trivular pursuit but it was air it was huge campaign and um then another one i'll send you if you ever end stuff in your show was when there's uh dot coms were everywhere yeah and they paid a ton and i was the you know the ask.com i was there they had uh 450 kato lookalikes and it won a cleo award it's the best commercial really it was this before ass.com kind of became it was jeeves or this after ass jeeves became ass.com yeah it was a huge campaign people got sick of the butler yeah yeah so it was like you know i got what i was looking for sort of a deal but we you know in shot prog and then huge director then they filmed some in hollywood and i was like wow it was uh you know like a four-day shoot or something yeah and but it's wild because but it was like when by the way when that kind of goes on you go like oh finally this is going to be huge and you think that all right everybody's going to want and it doesn't happen that way it didn't happen that way for me really because i mean given that like you were trying before this you were trying to make it as an actor i mean when you hear the stories of being an actor this is an insanely difficult pursuit to take on because you do you do a hundred auditions and maybe you get one role and and that is like the most normal thing in the world meanwhile you're going through that but you're getting these no's for like a probably more specific reason and you and you know that you're not you're you're not gonna know how your acting career necessarily would have gone if not for this it's gonna be tough to wrestle with yeah i think about that all the time like oh my god what could have been and what you can't assume but i thought okay little by little i'm getting really good readings and everything just kind of stopped so i think that happens probably for a lot but I really am kind of happy where I'm at.

1:06:52And I still think things are going to happen in the world of acting. I just feel it. I've gotten very confident. Not cocky. I've just been really confident that something wonderful is just happening. And maybe it's a true crime show or whatever. Yeah. I mean, a lot of us kind of go through this life arc where you're trying, you're trying, you're trying, and then something just explodes. Like in my case, it was just basically interviewing all these SoundCloud rappers before that became totally commonplace, you know, and for you, it became basically just being, you know, living in the same place as a, as a extremely famous crime.

1:07:29um but then at some point you've gone through that experience and you kind of just have to figure out what the f**k you're doing with your life and what you can make of this and you know it's it's really at the end of the day like what is going to make you happy is you know spending time with your family your loved ones being able to have a good life and maybe at a certain point you think like either you're dreaming about being super famous or whatever and then you kind of get there and you realize like that was cool this is it's still cool but you know ultimately like what what do i want from my life it's not really necessarily to be the most famous person possible it's just to be comfortable be able to take care of the people around me etc well i'm gonna uh like i said i didn't i didn't have time when i to didn't know if i could send you stuff and all that so i want to show you something maybe even after we're done and you can comment it's a two minute something that they did with a buddy of mine i honestly it's like oh cato you're saying it's brilliant it's brilliant i'm gonna have your honest opinion on something that i shot and with a huge company and it's i think it's so good but because it's a true crime show and um basically it's called wrong place wrong time but for you to um see how hard it is in this world of of um networks now not having so much money or people that call you in, you go to three meetings.

1:08:55And if you get two meetings in the same company, you're going, all right, so this is a done deal. When you get three, it's like, what are they waiting? Let's just sign this thing. So it's happened on something that I did four times on this four times. And it's like, what, what's going on? So I'm going in my, is it because they don't like, or is it because of me? But it's, it's the most perfect role for me that I did with a buddy. and uh i after this i'm wanting to see it if you you can comment on your on your own if you ever do like inserts yeah but um i want to share it with you after talking to you no i would love to check that out but i mean that's interesting you said that's the vibe is that these production companies that maybe used to have big budgets that these days they're trying to make something on a shoestring for the most part no no production companies it's money it's the networks and all because they have or if they order 10 episodes, it's like they look at a budget.

1:09:48It's like we had a meeting at CBS and they even said, you have to go to companies like Netflix and Hulu. They've got all the money. So it's like, well, it's just become a completely growing up. It's totally different now. Networks have money, but the money is in Netflix and Amazon. So it's just amazing. I had a buddy of mine that just did an Amazon series with David Harbour, who was I think one of the best actors with Jason Bateman in that. And he shot in the amount of money that they paid my friend. This summer, Prime Video takes you back before Legally Blonde, before law school, and into the world of Elle Woods in high school.

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1:11:08I'm like, what am I doing wrong? I mean it's it's unfathomable how much money they have so it's it's like okay that's probably why I'm thinking it's gotta be so close for me yeah all these things all these people are coming in and he is a big shot and he saw what I'm gonna show you and he is just like okay this is this is great so you know definitely I was just wondering like as you get older because I I told you before and I almost felt bad saying this even though I don't think this is something that you would give shit about it anyway but like my wife when i said dude i got a kato kailin interview on wednesday i see her on chad gbt asking who's kato kailin that that's got to be kind of a weird feeling that she's only eight years younger than me she should realistically right although i guess in 1996 she was six years old so maybe not but but netflix is what brought it back i think but oh yeah yeah yeah and she did watch the whole series so that's why she should have known and the other one that was with uh ryan murphy they won uh like 17 or nominated for 17 they won eight Emmys that was the one that John Travolta played Shapiro and uh Billy Magnuson was Cato and he was in No Time to Die the Bond film yeah so I was like oh dude that guy's on fire he played in Cato but is that a weird feeling to have like multiple younger generations to which that whole storyline that consumed America and your life is kind of like you know ancient history is that kind of a Strange feelings sometimes?

1:12:34Yeah, completely. It's funny because when I was even doing the emceeing and all that, the parents with their kids of the Comic-Cons, they would go, do you know who that is? And the kids, they didn't know. No, they saw me as the emcee. But the parents all knew who I was. So for me, it was cathartic. That's kind of a good vibe. They're not associating me with the OJ trial. And when I did this show called Eye for an Eye, I was the host. It was 147 episodes. It was in L.A. It was syndicated, but it was on everywhere in the world. When I would go to airports and people would ask me about that show and the judge's name, Extreme Akeem, they go Extreme Akeem.

1:13:10I was like, oh, my God, the good stuff's happening. People are seeing me for the show. And that, by the way, was the best thing for me because it was financially great. I was hosting a national show. It was like, wow. And, you know, 147 episodes is a lot. And people kind of recognize. And so it's got it had some legs to do. I wanted to ask you about the time period of this whole trial going on. It essentially kind of started to be viewed through the prism of like a racial conflict in America, where it was very much the traditional white mainstream, etc. And then black people who were in particular, especially in L.A., very upset about the Rodney King verdict.

1:13:55And at one point, one of the jurors even basically said that the majority of the jurors didn't actually think that OJ was innocent, but they felt like some kind of retribution was needed. I don't know how literal that was. I think that's been kind of – Chad G.P.T. says that that's been kind of skewed and exaggerated. But in general, like what was it like being around that climate at that time? Well, I think part of – well, the riots of Rodney King riots. Which led to the L.A. riots as well. Yeah, the L.A. riots were happening, all that. I mean, the whole city was on fire. parts of Santa Monica, I mean, West Hollywood, they're still flaming.

1:14:29I'm kidding. But I had some kind of humor in there because it's so serious, which I love. Parts are still flaming. So, but, but because I did so many interviews, I, back, back in the day, I had a convertible, like a Beamer. People would come right. I got it for a week and I was like, I got rid of it. People would come up to you of violently or not. Spitting on me was common. Now we got spit on a lot oh yeah but because of the divide by the media showing black and white you knew there were going to be rides if i i think if he's uh not seen as uh you know not guilty verdict that happened i just i don't know if someone went in the jur i don't i can't say but i gotta imagine they're thinking there's going to be riots again torn the city was going to be you know on fire Yeah.

1:15:22So who's to know? The jury made a decision. Maybe it's based on Barry Sheck's brilliant DNA analysis. I don't know, because. I think it was 100 percent race relations went so far backwards, especially in L.A. Yeah, it was all about race. You know, the defense totally played a race card and, you know, that was it was pretty obvious. everybody i think that had a brain that was watching on the newscast they they knew they they played a race card and johnny cochran you know late cochran johnny cochran is was brilliant because he knew how he could play it i think wow yeah i mean that is as a lawyer this is your job to do the best job you can defending your client yeah but yeah when you look at that it really society up and i remember even just the the discussion of the race card was kind of like a fascinating thing i'm like 12 when all this is going on but i i recognize that there was something unique about this where you're having people acknowledge publicly that race was something that could be used to skew public opinion which i don't really recall being discussed in that way prior to that in fact i feel like the oj trial was the first time we ever heard the n-word used publicly i don't know if it was ever really used before that no never used and if that was another huge part of the case of uh when firman kept pleading the fifth and detective lang he says says that that was the case they knew that as soon as uh they could ask any kind of question if he keeps pleading the fifth it was like it just it was defeating to the lapd so the case became more about the racism with the lapd yeah and detective so you know the the jury's hearing this and they're making mind up going well yeah they're kind of there could be going on rodney king this is whole the you know getting beat up in simi valley so i think there it plays in their mind of reasonable doubt oh you just reminded me that one time i was out because i was a bmx rider before this whole podcasting thing and i remember one time riding in simi valley and my friend pulled the car over and he goes this is where rodney king got beat and he just happened to be on the street and he happened to know where it was and i just remember getting out of the car and just looking at it and being like this is the most nondescript place where you could ever imagine something so uh influential or explosive happening yeah yeah i mean that was i don't know if that was that 92 or whatever if there were cell phones remember it was all filmed so i don't know cell phones it was like video camera someone had a video camera from the window yeah and you'd never really seen anything like that yeah it was like that kind of started the whole thing and now cameras and the phone it's like you can't do any anything is going to be recorded because Because sometimes, I don't know, you're on Twitter, probably X.

1:18:02I'm fascinated of all the stuff that's covered on certain people I follow. And I'm like, are people not aware that you're pretty much 24-7, you're on camera somewhere, except in your studio. Are the cameras on? These are on. No, but. But, right, it's always, you can't get, I don't know how anybody, even your cars, like Tesla said, and the whammas, everything's got a camera. Exactly. I mean, even that, like OJ would have been found guilty in no time. There wouldn't even been a trial if that happened in modern times, because you would have had cell phone data. You would have had people's cameras outside their houses filming.

1:18:39It was just so, it would have been impossible for him to get off like in modern times. And that's, that's, what's kind of amazing about the fact that people are still killing each other is because when you look back to the seventies or eighties, it looks like a free for all. How the fuck was anybody getting caught? we talk about that all the time because the technology now it's like technology really screwed up for serial killers and it's not even so much a joke but I've always said it's like the technology it's like the killings but there's killings going on because I think now with no one being educated they don't care if they go to prison or not they'll shoot them even on camera I mean you can go on X on your phone and see murders there's just it's on camera it's like i can't believe it yeah i remember even 2021 that there was some website that had like a lot of like really uh gory videos of like cartel assassinations and stuff like that and we we had to link to the site we're sitting around i probably watched five or six of them before i'm like okay i don't know this is fucking up my vibe like i don't want to see this shit and a couple of my friends kept watching it and when i think about it now a lot of that footage wouldn't even you know pique my interest at this point because i'm so inundated with that kind of content on x that i just constantly see it and i just feel completely numb to it you know like a video of a bunch of people getting sprayed up in a drive-by just you know if i don't know anybody associated with this it just you just keep strong keep scrolling it's sad but what am i gonna do there's a ton of that too they like you said the spray like i see that probably right now i could find one of uh someone at a 7-Eleven order getting shot up and running out of a car and doing it right and someone's shooting in the head so that's all over it's like how do they I don't know how how dumb whatever it's on camera yeah I mean uh I don't know if you ever listen to the hardcore band the Cro-Mags uh but I was watching an interview clip with the singer and he's like probably 60 grew up in New York City and he was comparing right now versus back then in terms of crime and craziness and he's like you know he goes i honestly think as bad as it was back then that it's worse now and the reason why is because the guns are way better and the drugs are way more powerful and if you think about it it's like the drugs that people were doing in the 80s were nothing smoke your crack is nothing compared to fentanyl and meth and all this crazy shit that's going on and then like the fact that now they have guns that could let off 40 shots in five seconds it's just like i mean you can't compare that to somebody running around with a revolver where if you want to shoot somebody you got to get you know relatively close to i agree with that 100 that's back then it was yeah it was single shot or whatever 44 kingdom or whatever but it was all it was totally different and i think the crimes back then were like with serial killers i think they were more i thought out i guess you could say thought out because now they realize that they wouldn't get caught without it's too hard with technology i think about the pbtk killer that bind, torture, and kill.

1:21:37How long he got. I don't know if you remember that one. I don't. Bind, torture, kill guy was that he had this job like in Kansas City, and he was an architect going to work every day, and it took them forever to catch him, but it's one letter they delivered in a post office box. It went back to him, married three kids or whatever, had a home, and they found just everything in his attic, and Google it later. It's just the most, the killing, the buying, torture, and killing of how he did it. But he did it every time his wife went on vacation. Wow. And it's an incredible story. And that's going to be some, someone's got to do a feature film on this guy.

1:22:16Do you think that - Dennis Radar, that's his name. Okay. Do you think, I got to watch the Ed Gein documentary on Netflix. I'm meaning to get to that. Tomorrow I have the guy on our show. Oh, really? Wow. That's sick. Not Ed Gein. Oh, right. I'm from Wisconsin. I know Plainfield. I drive by it every summer. Right. Do you think the school shooter thing or the church scooter thing, is that the same impulse that used to previously get us serial killers, but now that same energy has been like diverted in this other way? Or are these two separate phenomena? I think it's two separate things. I think the serial killers are more planned.

1:22:50They fix their satisfaction of that. It comes to them that night. I got to kill. And then they plan it and they get away with it and keep a souvenir. the mass shootings are just someone that's just it's just they've come to a point i'm gonna do it this is it i know i'm gonna get killed that day yeah and they just go when they do it yeah it's almost like it's like if you wanted to just take your own life well here's how you make a splash here's how you get everybody to talk about you here's how you're able to make your weird statement with the letter that you leave behind or anything like that it's just like the most attention getting version of that which is that's that's why also sociopath though yeah they're this people that they're either whether they're transgender or not whatever it is but we're finding out that the last seven major killing major mass shootings have been all transgender i mean come on this this got there's something to that either with the drugs they're taking the transition or whatever something's got to go screw up your mind that you become you know some drugs say you might have suicidal thoughts that are on tv running ads you might have those some of the drugs they'll say it may cause cramp it may cause diarrhea it may cause suicidal tendencies you know but they say that in the commercial it's like so if you're getting pumped up and you're getting hormone changes something's got to happen i have a doctor here he'll you know he can he can he's a doctor yeah he'll know about this not not on the clock today no just hanging out okay he knows a lot about the you know the drugs like fentanyl is fentanyl if it's used the right way it's the most best drug for you but it's not used the right way right yeah am i right by saying that best for pain yeah for sure anybody who's but it's been under the influence of it yeah it's very good for pain like i said when i went down to skidron i guarantee there's so many people because they were just in that frozen state you see oh yeah i was like oh my god i'm seeing it lie this is this is real yeah when i was in boston the other day we were walking around and i saw a guy who was doing like the fentanyl thing where you kind of like bend down while you're still standing there and they're just sort of like hunched over and they'll they'll find a wall to kind of lean against or whatever and it's the saddest thing ever and i had my kid ask me what's going on with that guy and that was the first time that i had to give her some weird rambling response to try to explain it away without saying you know you're five or you're whatever almost five and you know she's not ready for the real explanation but yeah that was the only good part of that story for you is that when he was hunched over the last guy had diarrhea something about you and hunched over people well it was the exact same pose yeah this person

1:25:27run oh yeah i got a couple more uh questions uh did you see the the charlie sheen documentary that came out recently because i know that you guys were real cool at a certain point we were inseparable in the 90s for at least at least two two and a half years he's the greatest and he's he does stuff that for charitable things i i know he he paid for a police officer's cancer treatment couldn't afford he doesn't want anybody to know he does these things he's the guy that does these things and you'll never hear it from anybody i'm telling because i saw it um but he doesn't do it He's kind. We have a fascinating baseball.

1:26:03He would rent. We had baseball games every Saturday at this park up in Azura. What is it called? Past Calabasas. Azura Hills or whatever. It's up there. We had guys that played pro ball. The most fun ever. Every Sunday, watch football. It'd be guys like Sean Penn, Nick Cage, and T. Thomas Howell, and Kerry Elwes, and watch Sunday football. I can't tell it was the best time. And it was always at one of his place up in Mullen at the time. Guy is the greatest. And I'm so happy that he's sober now eight years. I'm so happy that he's got it together. When you were spending all that time with him, was this before the drugs kind of took over?

1:26:48I saw parts of it. I would not be. I'm a real positive thing. I think if anything, I hung around during the parts of being his friend of, don't do this. did I see things? Yes. I didn't like it and I usually would leave. He's got a great friend in Tony Todd who's in the documentary series, Tony and I. That guy did seem great, yeah. Tony just got a text from yesterday and stay in touch. We've, you know, stay in touch of, I think he's on the path. I think when you get, like you said, you get older and all that, you start going, all right, maybe I cheated certain things. me personally i he did think i can't believe that you saw in the document that he's alive and we don't need to lose him he's got so much to offer the world and all the things that he's doing he's great great soul and yeah i saw everything and like i said we were honestly inseparable we did uh riding his cars and maul and going so freaking fast going charlie don't please i don't want to die no i'm not like stuff that's crazy but um i was not for him doing the the bad i when there were bad people at the house i knew bad things were going to happen i would leave and it was it was a place where he had some stuff that went on that was really really dangerous really yeah i mean very rare that somebody could get that deep into drugs and addiction and to still have like almost everybody who speaks about them have positive things to say usually to be honest that much drugs usually turns you into a pretty shitty person but everybody that you hear talk about them seems like they have a pretty favorable opinion of them yeah and like i said i think uh the parts that people don't know that he's talking about so much charity he gave to people and the guy was just so you know is great to me back in the 90s we had a film deal it was my i have this i kept the contract of my that was going to be made never never got made but i still have the contract of what i was going to be paid and to do a uh a film with him and um i still have it was back then it was called how to eat a hamburger and drive that was the title and drive and drive but i know that would be i could do that yeah i eat salads there's a film behind that and i I love them.

1:29:08So I still have that contract at home, and I – maybe one day. Okay. But despite spending that much time around them, you never got into drugs or never gave them a shot? No. I got as my witness and never even got an urge to do anything, to do a drug. And I think it's because – this is me now talking – because it would take away from me. I mean, I didn't want anything to control my brain. I really did. I didn't want it to control, and probably some of the people going, Cato, Cato, you're so full of shit. I swear that just wasn't me. I just wasn't into it. Yeah, I have so much respect for people that come into the world knowing that about themselves.

1:29:43Because when I think about my life, I don't think I ever really wanted to drink. I just did it to fit in. And when I look back at it, it's like, God, how much of my life did I waste on that that I didn't have to? And I just could have had a much better life probably if I had been a little bit more determined to just being myself. Oh, 100%. And I have friends that do drugs. I have friends that drink. I mean, I have a beer. I'm not against any of that stuff. I'm from Milwaukee. My God, the capital of beer. I just me personally, I don't. Plus, I'm a migraine sufferer, so I'm sure that helps out. I can't have certain things and I get an intense migraine.

1:30:20Even if I have that one beer or wine, you can feel a migraine come and you're like, okay, no more. So that kind of saves me too, I think. Wow. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Because to be honest, like drinking and me, I never got fully into it because it just fucks my stomach up. so bad that I felt like every time I get drunk, I would just be hitting the toilet 10 times over the course of the next morning. And it's like, that's why I would like drink, but then I would not drink for a week and then, and then drink binge drink again. And, but you know, when I look at the people in my life who are just drinking all the time, I'm like, I don't think my body ever would have like allowed me to do that.

1:30:56It would have just been too painful to kind of kept it at bay. I had a doctor friend, different doctor, another doctor friend, he said, you can drink all you want as long in the 24-hour period you go and you sweat it out by working out or something he said all that will leave your liver your kidneys and your skin it'll it'll dissipate uh you know he's smarter than me so i don't know if it's true or not but he swears by it yeah i mean probably a lot better than the alternative but when you're hung over and i don't know how many people have that 24-hour period that actually can have that stamina to go yeah i drank i'm gonna it will work out now yeah no definitely like being able to just sweat it off especially you people people like talk about that but then like as you get older i feel like the effectiveness of that is a little bit less intense like the last time that i ever got up new year's 2019 bunch of coke bunch of molly bunch of alcohol had the craziest orgy of my whole life i saw it on youtube it's great no it is on porn up if you want to check it out yeah it's just joking and what happened uh i had like a two-day hangover and i was like okay two days this is this is i'm done yeah and you just like crashed out that's it you couldn't move i just like was in bed in the hotel for like two days and like by the end of the second day i'm kind of starting to feel okay and i'm just kind of looking at my girl just like we can't keep doing this right this is right and then year and a half later we had a kid you know like like somehow turning off that party part of my life opened the door for me saying you know like what's actually like what are we actually doing here let's have a kid yeah how old's your kid five almost five yeah good man yeah hey i want to ask you about your daughter do you remember having to have the conversation with her about why you were famous oh yeah yeah my daughter is 40 now 40 that's insane yeah so yeah my daughter i pick her at school she kind of she played along because she knew the fame what she could get away with so it was sort of really kind of it was it was really good for her the only bad part is when I'd have her, we couldn't really go out.

1:32:50So that kind of, you couldn't just go to the movie back then when it was at its height. So she saw that. And at certain points, she would say that the kids, when it was great for her, it was great. But when they picked on her, it was tough on her. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I just Venmo'd you for rent. Nice. Now I can instantly spend it whether I'm checking out online with Venmo or using a Venmo debit card. Say more. More exactly. Because the more you do with Venmo, the more you get. like earning up to 5 % cash back with Venmo stash on a bundle of brands. So order more pizza. The math demands it. Get the Venmo debit card.

1:33:26Venmo stash bundle terms and exclusions apply. See terms at Venmo.me slash stash terms. Venmo checkout not available at all merchants. Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank NA. So, you know, that's it. But talk to her every day. No, 40 is insane. I know it doesn't make sense. This is like the least clickbaity conversation possible. But yeah, like what is it like to have a kid who's like made it all the way to adulthood like that? Yeah, my wife is younger than she, my daughter. So that's kind of bad. When you have a reception at Chuck E. Cheese, you know, that's it's a little too young there.

1:33:59Hey, honey, we're in the ball bin. Take your shoes off. When your best man is Jerry Lee Lewis, I'm saying. No, I tell a story about that. It's like my buddies. This is true. My buddies were all like, we got to have a bachelor party, man. I'm going to bachelor parties. I don't want to bachelor party, guys. Forget it. You know, they, when you hire strippers, they're from AARP. So I said that when, when the, when their tits, when her bra size is 38 long, it's like, okay, not going to work out at them. It's a bad party. Holy shit. You've done standup or no? Yeah, I've hosted. So I've hosted comedy clubs and all that.

1:34:35So yeah, I've got, you know, I've done standup. Yeah, I have done standup. I've done a lot of hosting. Like I said, I did the, like the wizard world in front of thousands of people. Yeah. So, but yeah, I, I write a lot and I'll probably end up, I just did a public speaking with, like I said, the detectives and I got to, you know, it was out of stage. So I got to do my bits. I think that's my best thing is that I can, I'm not dirty at all. I'm kind of clean and I love the whole thing. I've gone to thousands of comic, I've got so many comedic friends that are huge stars and I, I don't do it like they do.

1:35:12I have stories kind of like on a show. Mine's better to have a dialogue with humor. Well, I did see, rest in peace, Norm MacDonald, but you guys were real friends at this time. Norm, I taught him basketball. He was your height, and I told him I play in this league. You should play. So like we said, with golf, we did so many Vegas trips together, and we were all inseparable at one point and hanging out. And he was awful. He was so uncoordinated. a month later, took him to the court, showed him and all that. He got so much better. He had his manager and his dear friend, Lori Jo from Saturday Night Live.

1:35:53Lojo would tape all the games, and on Wednesdays we'd tape the basketball game, go and she'd cook dinner, and have a meal at like 11 o 'clock. So we played from 8 to 10, 30 or so. And it was a great memory. Then I did two episodes of his The Norm Show. I saw that. And what year was it that you guys had your falling out? We didn't have a falling out. Oh, you didn't? No, everybody said we had a falling out. I think it says on Wikipedia, yeah. Yeah, we just kind of did. I hung out with Artie Lang and me and Norm. And then back then, Jim Downey would be at his house, and Jim is the guy that's on Fallon's show now, kind of the Ed McMahon who introduces things.

1:36:32I just remember all these great things. So there was no fight. I think if anything, Norm, he gambled, and I was with him certain times in Vegas where the hardest part about being kind of famous and all that is that when you gamble and you lose and you're out in a public place, and for me and for Norm or whatever, more Norm because he's high stakes, is what's Norm and all that, and you just lost$100 ,000. man you gotta you can't you if you knew the difficulty of what it was like you're feeling when you gamble and you lose something i mean i'm i'm really ugly yeah and i got you know this guy gamble i am so ugly of i can't be around people but when someone does that it's like i always have a picture you got to turn it off and like oh yeah and it's really hard to do but you can fake it yeah he had to do that a lot yeah no for sure i've seen like clips of uh friends i'm like steve will do it as a very popular influencer streamer etc and i've seen that dynamic take place where a fan will be like complaining and they'll sometimes have like a video clip of him being a to them because they try to get a photo with him and he's kind of like bro i just lost half a million dollars like what the that's that people don't know from that moment you asked but you don't know what happened three minutes beforehand yeah so that's the toughest part but that happens a lot of you uh and we're not just game just anything if you had something bad that just happened And it's hard to do that.

1:37:56And you can't, it's hard to explain to a fan or whatever. It's like, hey, I just, but he said I lost a half a million dollars. But I saw lots of things that happened. And we, like, we'd golf a lot of times and very competitive. Definitely. It's a shame that we didn't get to see more of Norm in, like, the modern podcast world. Yeah. Because he would have just been such an amazing addition to so many of these shows, you know? Yeah, he had another show he did. It was after the Norm show. It was sort of the podcast format. We had a lot of people, the desks sort of thing was filmed. So I think so. We had a, God, you know, I met Super Dave, Golf With Him, Kevin Nealon.

1:38:33So I had that whole clique of greatest people, minds, comic minds, and hung out. You remember Super Dave? Dave Osborne of that Golf With Him. He passed away. I knew Gilbert Godfrey passed away. Norm passed away. There's more. I just can't think of how many comics have just died this last like two years. Yeah, it's sad, man. And, you know, I see the way that for my parents, it gets to be an increasingly lonely feeling. Just having so many, like you get to the point where like 90 % of the people you've been close with throughout your life are gone. Yeah. I mean, God, that's just a punishing feeling.

1:39:12I lost my parents. I know it's like, oh, wow. I've just, it's, but. everybody's got to deal with it. I don't know if you lost anybody, but you lost a friend just recently. You got to deal with grief. Grief is a growing experience. So, and I've been around lots of grief, not just with the OG case, but just family stuff that's happened. But we won't get into that. And you grow with grief. Yeah. No, definitely. Yo, I appreciate you coming through, man. It was great getting to have a conversation. It was a great time. Yeah, I appreciate it. Great, everybody there. I had so much fun meeting your whole staff and crew.

1:39:44Hell yeah. So, and I'm going to show you this. that's two minutes after after we for sure i would love to check it out yeah yeah just real quick and then well i gotta head out to a radio gig man i honestly um i'm so glad i met because i didn't know what to expect and that was great great thing is very uh great release man you were great no really good interview yeah thank you and you i mean i never would have expected that you would have came in with quite the energy level yeah you love it thanks everybody amazing best time kato kalen great american no jumper coolest podcast like comment and subscribe uh tell me one degree of scandalous i also go to my podcast is one degree of scandalous tom zener channel z-e-n-a-n-e-r kato kalen one degree of scandalous youtube and all that and you guys will love it it's a great show you know it just occurred to me if you want to be popular with women you should start a true crime podcast right that's it baby that's my life that's not how you met your wife, right?

1:40:38No, no. She loves the show. That'd be a good story, though. Love y 'all. Appreciate y 'all. Uncovered windows can make your home feel up to 20 degrees hotter. Stay cool and save up to 45 % off custom window treatments during the 4th of July VIP access sale at blinds.com. From outdoor shades to room darkening blinds, finding the perfect fit is easy. Get free samples, expert design help, and professional measure and install services. Or DIY it with confidence and support every step of the way. Shop up to 45 % off site-wide right now during the 4th of July VIP access sale at Blinds.com. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

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