Twisted Black on Being a Texas Legend, 90 Year Sentence for Drugs, His Influence & More

26:29Oh, yeah, absolutely. And not only that, I saw them on the flat, like, man, I really didn't do it. Like, I really don't know these people. I'm going to trial. I got, you know, asshole full of money right now. And, you know, this is all going to be good. You know what I mean? And I was that, all glory to God, I was that talented. Right. They gambled on me. Damn. So, okay. You really thought that you could beat it? Hell yeah. I didn't know them. I ain't know nothing about the feds and how they play. In fact, I didn't have a clue that I would lose. Really? So you're saying you were in the dope game, but you just weren't doing the specific things or working with the specific people that they were accusing you of working with?

27:09I wasn't in the dope game no more. Okay. Like, literally. Right. Like, I had already, me and some of my closest partners, I had a graduation party, man, 13 months before that. Like, man, you made it, and we ain't never seen this happen type shit because I'm on to the music shit. So, man, people had me there. Man, I ain't think I could lose. I'm like, man, I don't know these people, little country motherfuckers out here, you know? Because this was, you know, they was talking about, I had a, they ended up giving me a crack case. So I got like a, it was like a brick and some change of crack. I'm like, man, I ain't seen crack since Dre was with Cube then, man.

27:45You know what I'm saying? I'm like, so I knew I could beat it. But again, the feds play different. So you get there in the courtroom. And at what point do you realize, oh, I'm actually not going to beat this? When they sentenced me. Oh, so all the way up till that, you thought that you were doing all right. Oh, hell yeah. Really? Everybody in the courtroom did. Really? Yeah, people break it down, crying on the stand because they got caught in lies. We had transcribed shit. some of the witnesses saying they didn't actually know me, but they was going to work the system. Yeah, one motherfucker said he did it because he thought I fucked his bra.

28:20Wow. Yeah, true story. Wow. Man, this is the truth. Damn. Yeah, man. So I never thought I was going to lose. So it was a jury trial or it was a judge? Jury trial. Okay. Yeah. I boxed it up. Why do you think that you actually ended up losing, though, even though you were so confident? Because the fight is already fixed. Uh-huh. The fight is fixed. and I don't want to discourage nobody else but when you go to trial with the Fed the chances you're losing is probably you lost already. True story. 99. That just depends on when you check. For us it's probably a hundred. I do know one guy that beat the Fed and they wanted me to tell him so bad.

29:06So those options were on the table from very early on. We want you to tell on this person and this person. Oh, man, the feds. Right. Right? So they start leaning on you with that right away. Are they asking you to tell on people that you barely even know or have anything to do with it? Like that one guy that beat them, his name was Danny Ray or something. I don't know him. They don't care, though. You dig what I'm saying? What they want. But they're not going to lean on you, champ. So all the motherfuckers that be saying, you know, that they lean on you. Now, I've seen them play some dirty games.

29:39I've seen them, you know, they'll go after your wife, your mom. I've seen them do that, stuff like that. But they don't really lean on you. They just put it on the table. Because what happens, what's on the other side of that cooperating is a different Fahrenheit. You know, so this is hotter than oven heat. But so they won't pressure you too much to cooperate because they kind of know that, you got to fully want to make this decision because it's going to change your life so much? Well, I can't say what they do with everybody else, but because I mean, now that you say that, because Angela Hudson was like the main star witness in my case.

30:21Right. And when you read her transcript, they did low key pressure her, you know, and the way that they pressured pressure her was again, what's on the other side of the table. They're like, well, you're not going to get a time cut if you don't tell. So what's going on with Twisted Black? I thought you said you wanted to go home. I thought you said you wanted to get back to your kids. The only way, so tell us what's going on with Twisted Black, because she had already said twice in this in black and white that I only know him from doing music with Zed. Well, she already told you, motherfucker, that she don't know me except through him with music, but you keep coming back saying, basically, you're not going to get a time cut unless you tell me about Twisted Black.

31:05So, yeah, I guess, you know, I guess I'll clarify that that they will probably pressure some people. But for the most ones that I've seen, they put it on the table. And then when they offer you 15, 20, 25 a life sentence, then that right there, that's the pressure. You see what I'm saying? They tell you never going home. But for you, there was no chance that you're going to cooperate? Oh, listen, the thing for me, and I'm not going to act like I'm like some super gangster. And I'll say what the rest of them won't say. I was raised like that. Like my father and my mother raised me like that. My mother was a pastor.

31:39Well, she was evangelist at the time. And so what happened is, you know, during the court proceedings, you know, I go back to this one room. And so the whatever proffer or whatever they're going to try to offer, my mother was so hands on that once they tell my lawyer, my lawyer would tell my mother. And so she answered the question for him. And she was like, no, he wasn't raised like that. Because we had a running joke. When they came back, they were like, what's going on? He was like, oh, they offered you this to tell on Danny Ray or whoop-dee this, that, and the third. And your mom already told me you're not going to do it.

32:17I looked at him like, really, mom? She's like, boy, you better stop playing with me. That's a true story. Wow. So, yeah, man, it was. And I'm not saying. And let me say this, too. If you sell drugs today in the climate that we're in right now and you're not going to tell, then you're the dummy. Really? You what? You're the dummy. Because everybody's just telling? Everybody's going to tell. Really? They're going to Charleston Whitechazz. Really? They're off the muscle. Yes. So that's why I stay away from all of that shit. Because I don't want to be the dummy. But what's the difference right now in the dope game as opposed to back then?

32:58Just the fact that it's so much easier for them to make cases. Is it the fact that snitching is so much more normalized? The thing is, is what you just said, the latter, right? I would guess because I'm not, I'm no longer part of that. Right. So it's no work for the police to do. Whoever gets caught is going to tell on the next motherfucker. Most of the time. And I'm not saying everybody sell dope as a rat either. I'm not going to say that because maybe there are some people that still cut from that cloth. And I'm sure they are because, you know, I got partners that solid, like my co-defender, big baby, he could have told on me and I would have never came home.

33:37You see what I'm saying? He could have just basically corroborated their story and I never come home. My pills and everything is shut down. Then it's TCAG, you know, TCAG stood up, you know, then you got other people that, you know, that I don't know that stood up, stand up and take, they lick, but it's so many that don't propel fitness water with Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar and vitamins propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you propel with Gatorade electrolytes. This episode is brought to you by Facebook.

34:13So you were scrolling on marketplace and there it was the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook. You know, I don't even know how they do it. Right. I mean, when you watch like old documentaries about crime and stuff and you see somebody in the 70s and they kill somebody and then they're just like, how the fuck are the cops going to solve this?

34:52I mean, I know they solve some murders, but it's just like when you watch that, you're like, holy fuck. Like it was unbelievably easy to get away with this shit as opposed to today where the first like like most of the people that I know who've been caught for murders. It's like technological means that they use to catch them. When you watch FBG Ducks killers get caught and they've got 150 different camera angles from the highway that show the car driving to the scene of the crime. It's like, you know, those guys probably would have walked away if it wasn't for the amazing amounts of surveillance that they have available.

35:26But it exists, bro. Yeah. So you can't act like it. Who's mad about people telling? Who's mad about it? I guess like, you know, gangsters in general, people who really believe in the street code. So what do they do? What do they do? they go on Clubhouse and complain about it, I guess? That's what I'm saying. So if there's no consequences, right? I mean, people get killed for riding, right? I mean, I don't know. I don't hear about it that much. I'm not saying it don't exist, but it just don't exist enough for us to know, right? We can't get in that right off the break. So, you know, and then what I've learned, man, dealing with people in close situations that you never know what one man may have to do to save his life, you know?

36:04And if that's what he had to do to save his life, then that's what I am. You see what I'm saying? Like it has no bearing on me. Right. Yeah. So because look me up, BOP.gov or ask somebody, you know, I did my time. And thank you, Lord. I came out of here pretty sane. Yeah. You know, I'm burned up, but, you know, I made it. Right. I mean, people are anti-snitching, but people do not seem very willing to go catch a murder case in order to kill a snitch. That doesn't really happen anywhere near as much as it probably used to. See what I'm saying? So all you're going to do is get a bunch of bad, it seems to me, you're going to get a bunch of bad press.

36:45Motherfucker's going to say shit behind your back or say shit on the podcast or whatever or flash your paperwork. Then what? Because, you know, the thing is that very rarely does somebody get accused of snitching and it's so black and white that they just have to say, yeah, I'm a snitch. It's always like, no, here's my version of the story. Like we're used to that as a society now where it's like half the country believes that the election was stolen and the other half believes that the election was fair. And it's like these people just both live in these alternate realities the same way that I've seen people sit on the podcast and they've got paperwork that makes it clear as day that they cooperate in some way.

37:26and they just will sit there and just talk and talk and talk to the point where the average person just stops listening and is just like, whatever, I don't fucking care that much. Right. Yeah, I don't think. I don't know. You know what I mean? It's just to each his own. And I wouldn't want to have to deal with that myself being in the drug game. Right. Yeah, same. It's a lot. I would hate to have to make the decision of this person that I love, that I fuck with, that I've been friends with for all these years, that my options are do 20 years in prison or do less time but have to put 20 years in prison on this guy.

38:05I don't want to have to make that decision, so I don't think selling drugs is for me. Also, if somebody robs me, I don't want to have to go kill somebody. And I feel like if you're going to get in the drug game, you pretty much have to take that on. You have to say, if somebody's going to rob me, I'm going to take it into my own hands. I don't think I'm cut out for that kind of decision. See, but you know what? In other words, you say, I know my lane. See, and that's what got the streets so saturated right now is you got a bunch of weenies, right? They say, I'm going to get out here in the street.

38:36You know, I want to sag my pants. I want these skinny jeans. I want this motherfucking Louis or this Gucci with all this money. But really, deep down, you're really a weenie. And so when that pressure hit and that Fahrenheit hit your ass, you do it. you're going, you're going, what are you going to do? Yeah. You're going to burn all the impurities off. It's going to be Oscar Meyer right there. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah. I mean, I think about that all the time when I see young kids getting murder cases and whatever else. And I'm like, I wonder how much time they spent thinking about what doing 20 years in prison, what's going to be like, man, I'm going to tell you a feeling.

39:13I got sentenced to 90 years, bro. 90, three 30 year sentences. It's like a long, drawn-out death sentence. You're going to die here, but we're going to just let you hang out for a while first. And then the cold part about it is the feds, they read it off in months, right? So I'm thinking that I can't get no more than 12 to 15 years, right? So when they start reading, he say, well, on the first count, 360. Second count, 360. Third count, 361. I'm like, who the fuck is he sentencing? You know, I'm thinking to myself. So if you listen to my music, you can hear it. Like, I break shit down for you in such a way, if anybody, you know, has listened, to where you don't want to do that.

39:57I mean, because then they consolidated them and ran them concurrent for 130. But you talk 30 years, man. And you got to do 25 of that bitch. You know, that's with no time cuts, no shit. Fuck that. Damn. So when you listen to some of my songs, like my new album, Storytime, when I go through, or Life is Outside, you go do this type of motherfucking time, you can actually listen to each song and know how I was feeling at the time. Because I put out five albums from prison just to take a motherfucker with me. Yeah. So who wants to go through that? No, definitely. So what was that? How long did trial take and what was that day like when you actually heard that sentence?

40:39Man, listen, I'm going to tell you what the judge said. The judge said, because Thanksgiving was coming up, right? The judge said, I want to try to be through with it. This was like a week before Thanksgiving. Three, four days, matter of fact. I want to try to be through with this before Thanksgiving because I want to eat turkey. This is when I knew I was in trouble. This judge, right at the beginning of court, he said, well, I understand that you're in the music business, Mr. Burns. I'm like, yes, sir. He said, well, I'm afraid I never heard of you because out here in Midland, Texas, we only know two types of music.

41:17And so I'm sitting here like waiting for this. He said, that's country and western. And everybody busts out laughing. I'm like, oh, I'm for the dying this month. That's a good joke, although I'm sure you are not really in the mind. Not right now. I'm scared to hear that right now. Hey, me and my mother locked eyes. I'm like, oh, fuck. Yeah, I knew right then it was good. But so to answer your question, man, the trial lasted about a week, man. And they found me guilty on my mom's birthday. November 22nd, 2006. 2006. Yeah, 2006. Damn. On my mom's birthday. And your mom was there? Yes. She spent her birthday finding out that about her son.

41:54Right then. Yeah, it's crazy, man. What was going on in your mind when you heard that sentence?

42:02I got numb, like literally. You know how when your feet go to sleep? Yeah. Or you sit on the toilet too long because you're on your phone and shit, and then your legs start going to sleep. Yeah, guilty. We're all done there. Yeah, literally, but that went through my whole body. But I was trying to stay as coherent as possible. And when he read each one, I was woke enough to nudge my lawyer like, hey, motherfucker, okay, get him to consolidate it. And then so my lawyer, he snapped because he tripping too. Like, God damn, you know, so he tripped. So he gets it, you know, ran concurrent, right, you know, pretty much on the spot that he put the paperwork, you know, whatever he had to do for that.

42:47Because I knew right then it was just like, I got to fight. You know, I know I got appeals coming because guys that were back there, I guess they kind of knew like, man, he going to lose, you know, because they knew the system. So they had already, hey, you got this appeal, you got your 2255, You got your 35, 81, all that shit, you know, 35, 18 or whatever. So I knew right then, bam, okay, I need to hire an appellant lawyer. You know, I don't know. I just think about all this shit in real time. It was kind of fucked up. Wow. So, I mean, then you just kind of have to settle into this new life in the jail or it was Fed charges so you get taken off to a federal prison?

43:28Absolutely. Yeah, you definitely, man, then the cold part about it, My situation is I was in Midland, Texas, and so I was considered a high-profile prisoner, right, because of the music and the deals and stuff like that. And so when they were walking me to court, they would put me in the middle, you know, not walking, but driving, driving with a car behind, a car in the front. And they had snipers in the front. They had snipers on top. They had the press and the media across. And so when I got sentenced, they sent me to a fucking immigration jail, bro. At this time, you had ODC and then you had Midland.

44:12So I was like the only English-speaking motherfucker in the jail. Really? What? Wow. Yeah, that shit was crazy. So, I mean, how long were you at that spot, though? uh seems like man two three months today today you know get you hot you get you set up to go to fucking prison then i started in beaumont that was my first prison and then so get like you said getting used to how that shit went down because i thought it was just gonna be some squabbling right and i had already been to state prison so i knew i you know i went ducking no fights but when do you start to realize like oh this crazy shit happening two weeks later two weeks Within two weeks.

44:53And what was the deal in there at the time? Within two weeks, I seen about two or three people get stabbed. Really? And then I was like, why the fuck is they stabbing? And then when it's two formidable guys, why ain't they squabbling? And so when I started seeing that, they're just not really fighting in federal prison like that. The motherfucker's trying to put that iron on you. I knew I was somewhere different. Right. So was your mentality, I'm going to try to stay out of all the politics or everything, or was your mentality like, all right, I guess I got to get a knife and get ready for whatever?

45:29Well, I got my knife the first day. Oh, someone gave it to you? Yeah, yeah. Shout out to ACAR. ACAR, as soon as I got off the bus and they were giving me tennis shoes and dudes were giving me watches and, you know, stamps is the currency. When we got to my cell, he pulled out the blick. He was like, this for you. I'm like, no, I don't want that. You know, I'm good with these. because I knew his uncle Stein. So long story short, I'm like, no, I don't want that. I'm good on that. But after those two weeks, I was like, hey, Acar, come down to my cell. Let me get one of those and supersize mine, will you?

46:01Because I knew I didn't want to stab anybody because I knew, you know, I wanted to fight to try to get out of here a little bit, you know what I mean? But I wanted that bitch to be so big that you don't even want to, you like, hold up, you know, if I have to hit you with the motherfucker, you know what I'm saying? And I, but yes, I didn't really want to get with the politics, but I'm a survivor and you know, I'm a street nigga. Where are you guys keeping your knives? There you go with them fair questions. Well, I mean, listen, if it's under your mattress, nobody really cares, but we've heard some stories about where the knife might have to go.

46:39You might have, listen, man, don't even worry about it, fellas. I am not going to give it up. It stays in jail. It is. Those stories stay in jail. It's like Vegas. I mean, if I'm one of the ones with me is going to stay in jail. Because the thing, this is how. Well, you're a Texas gentleman. Yes, sir. I'm a Texas gentleman. Here's the deal. What happens is this is how they get him to the hiding spots. Like this. Really? Yeah. See a motherfucker that's no longer going through it. Hey, man, I used to put my shit inside the brick. I had a hole in the wall. And now I saw the motherfucker that's some super cop CO never thought of that.

47:15he starts checking the bricks and lo and behold they still doing that so nah we had all kind of spots interesting but was there like at that time in Texas just given that this was such a long time ago I'm just curious about what the dynamic was everything was already like fully broken down by race at that time was there like gang oriented stuff going on or was it more just racial shit yeah what you mean back then Yeah, it's right now. I know how it is kind of right now from just talking to so many people. I'm just wondering about back then. Right, yeah. Yeah, 2006 I went in.

47:55But it's broken down in gangs, right? Yeah. And it's broken. The race thing is real. Yeah. Okay, especially when I went at the time of Victorville. I had never seen anything like it. You know, I came out here at the time. I just knew I was going to die. My first five years, I was suicidal anyway. Really? Yeah, I wanted to kill myself. So just because life felt pointless. Well, because I never thought I would make it. I knew I wasn't going to tell on nobody. You see what I'm saying? And so and I knew I wasn't going to comply with anything. I didn't want to do so. And I was just kind of stubborn.

48:25I'm like, I ain't going to let y 'all make me do all this time. You know what I mean? So I felt like somebody was going to kill me. Or if not, I was going to bang a gram, you know, a little bit too much hair on and take myself out. You were doing that while you were in there? No, no, but it was prevalent. But you figured that would be a good way to go? Well, this was my genius plan. You know, the devil had a veil on my face and it wasn't allowing me to see the end. Right. You see what I'm saying? But you were sober in there? Sometimes. Mostly or dabbled? I dabbled. Okay. Yeah, you know, with drinking, smoking, all that type shit.

49:01Okay. But you didn't get into the hardcore stuff? Oh, no, that's not my thing. but it is like you know i know people who when they were in there they did heroin and then they get out and they would never dream of doing heroin oh yeah no i know i never i've never done heroin a day in my life but i knew that if i bang enough of it it's gonna take me out of here yeah and that was my genius plan at the time you know i even talked it over with my sully because he was gonna have to deal with my body and he the one really tricked me into waiting till my first appeal was over with. Really? How many years in is this really going through your head?

49:37Three years in? Yeah, yeah. Because my third year, I won my first appeal. Okay, but from the beginning of when you got in there, you were kind of... Oh, that was already... Yeah, it was either, I'm going to make y 'all kill me. You know what I mean? Because I'm not going to do anything I don't want to do. You know what I mean? Because it's real political. I mean, if you really wanted to die, because I've thought about it a little bit, and I just, I can't imagine myself actually being able to stick a strap in my mouth and pull the trigger you know like i just don't think i could do it but if you're in that environment like you know a lot of people basically kill themselves by like suicide by cop where they'll just like pull a gun on a cop boom the cop kills you and that's a good analogy that's what that's kind of what that's exactly the easiest way to die in there is you just gotta fuck over the wrong person they're gonna kill you you don't have to fuck over them or you could just you know it could be um could because in the feds it's political It's a lot of politics, and you could choose not to play.

50:30Man, I ain't playing the play. I don't care what you said. Because I'll give you a prime example. In Victorville, the Spanish guys got a hands-off policy, right? Unless you tango, tango will give you a fade where you can squabble. But the Mexicans are anti-fade. Anti-fade, hands-off, you know, because it's family. And so if you buck on that, then, you know, that could be it for you. You know what I mean? or, you know, there are those one-offs and situations to where it happens and you find out who was in the wrong, somebody's going to get punished. Ain't nobody got to die. But when you got transferred to Victorville, did it feel like you were all of a sudden just learning about California but you're learning about it in the most fucked up environment possible?

51:15Not really, man. I mean, kind of. I'm sure there's people from other places and everything. Well, I had visited like four or five times. Oh. Okay. So, but you got to keep in mind, California prison has, you know, it has a stigma. So me coming from Beaumont at the time, I can't remember, I went to nine different places. So, but when I got to Victorville, it was, you know, all I could think about is all the things that I heard over the years. And when I saw how, you know, segregated everywhere, champ. But when you get to Victorville or to y 'all California, it's super. I'm talking about it could be a phone right here and line right here and the line right here.

52:00And this phone right here empty. I need to use phone. You can't touch that phone. That's not a black phone. I mean, this year here was different. When I came in, I had to zigzag all through that month because I can't walk in this area. I walk straight up through, if I'm not mistaken, through the Serenio area. Just trying to go right here. And so everybody like, but what happens is, is they give you a pass when you first get there because they know you don't know. Right. You see what I'm saying? So they're like, hey, hey, bro. But I'm telling before they said hello. Hey, hey, hey, champ, you can't can't go through that area.

52:32I'm like, yeah, I just came from that door right through here. Like, no, that's the area. So you got to go around. Like, oh, shit. Yeah, I thought I was going to die in Victorville for sure. Really? Of what? Just beef? Well, because it was like at the time, it was like 200 blacks. Right. About 900 Mexicans. Wow, that big a difference. Yeah. Holy shit. Yeah, true story. And so I thought that was going to pretty much be it. But when I say that the blacks that were there from California, from Utah, from wherever they were from, were some cool guys. Man, and I'm thinking because I'm coming from Texas now, you know, and I'm not affiliated.

53:12I'm on Texas time. I thought it was going to, like, you know, I was going to run into it with my own people, man. They showed me number love and the Spanish guys too. Really? Man. So once I was there, I like, Oh, I ain't gonna die here. You know what I'm saying? This is the, you know, because it was just all about respect. So would you say in general, you met a lot of pieces of shit and people that kind of lowered your belief in humanity, but that experience in particular, you just felt like it had a really good culture going there or whatever. I didn't met worse people out here. Really? Yeah.

53:45Worst people. Listen, what type of son of a bitch would no really I'm serious take a platform take a microphone or say a megaphone and talk about dead people or talk about your mom or your dad or your illness I see more motherfuckers cold-hearted people out here than I ever seen in prison, man. People cold out here. You can get in trouble and have a wreck and half your head hanging off before they offer you some assistance, they start filming you. That's cold as a motherfucker to me, man. And I'm still wrapping my head around that. Again, I'm going to take you right back to my music. Listen to it now.

54:40Express that shit because people don't even know they fucked up the internet To me, the Internet exposed a lot of the so-called street niggas and empowered the weenies. I believe that. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of things that I mean, you could be a child and you could be scamming, hacking into people's bank accounts, et cetera. Whereas like the kind of crime that you come from, you know, you just you had to be a tough dude. You had to be ready for the bullshit. You know, now it's like it's easy for people to hide behind their computer. you could have a hugely popular YouTube channel with millions of subscribers and nobody knows who you are and every day you make videos calling people pussies and bitches and judging their life choices that you've never had to deal with and you know there's a million people doing this kind of thing.

55:26Adam my biggest song since I've been home is called My Little Nigger right? Yeah yeah. Okay. I was very curious about this song. Okay. So you up? You already up? Yeah yeah yeah. Okay that's my biggest song since I've been home. No maybe the Mo 3 song. Okay. You know number wise. The one that I did about Mo3's story. But My Little Nigga was about Go Yeo, Ronnie. But it was a made-up story because I tell stories. That's what I do. And needless to say, that song went viral, right? I threw in some Mexican. These are all my partners. I would just name four worth people that rap. and this is when I knew the internet was to everybody knows my story everybody know black ate at 30 black was on top when he left this motherfucker he done did everything it is in the street to do because from here to California to Texas you can call and ask about whether it be in prison or in the street and then when I made that song I made it five weeks before Ronnie passed and everybody Oh, that motherfucker, super hard, super hard.

56:40Man, you a genius. Man, you back on your story time shit, yeah. The moment he died, man, it switched. Motherfuckers, this is when I knew the internet was tough. They started calling me a rat. Man, you a rat. You telling people. I'm like, a rat? Man, you could have called me anything in the whole motherfucking world. I done went here and did 17 years, two months in the penitentiary. Nigga never told on nobody. And everybody knew it. And you had the audacity to type in your phone. He's right. That's when I knew I said, they'll say anything. And you also just have to accept that you can't do anything about it.

57:15That's total opposite of prison where anyone disrespects you. You got to overreact. And now you're on the internet where if you even respond on your story saying, Hey, you bitch ass, whatever you saying this about me, you kind of look weird. Yeah. yeah, because what you did is you took the bait. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And needless to say, I went for it. You know, like, hey, but and I just all the only thing I'll say is, you know, when something like that pop up, hey, you should look me up. You know, same way that y 'all look up everybody else. Same way you motherfuckers sit here and argue about who's worth what and who's really look me up, you know, but you don't want to look me up.

57:53You just want to call me a name. because it's like just such a crazy world because it's like if you if you got famous in the 90s you were just famous and like how would you ever find out about anything negative that people had to say about you you know maybe somebody writes a letter to the source right but like how many letters do they print per month like five or some shit like a couple you know it's like there's just in the 90s or 80s or anytime before that nobody like had a voice whereas now it's like like even when I first got into doing rap oriented content, I was super insecure about the fact that I'm white and I don't necessarily have the pedigree to be able to speak on rap and stuff.

58:33I knew I knew my shit, but I also just had a lot of insecurity about it because I felt like you should probably only have a channel about a thing if you're an expert in that thing. So it made me kind of like really overcompensate because I really wanted to do a great job and I overprepared for every interview and then now when i look at the internet it's like everybody just has a channel where they talk about rap and they don't know shit and they're not from this environment at all like all that anxiety i had seems kind of foreign to me now when i look at these fucking 20 year old kids that start channels and they're talking about gangster shit and beef and all this and no no thought about the fact that they're an outsider in this world that they're talking about yeah but but i and just to highlight you a little bit i think that's what what to me you know i've watched your show for quite some time, right?

59:18That's what, to me, made you good. Thanks, yeah. Yeah, I don't know your pedigree or your background, but I just listen to you talk, listen to you articulate. I know he's not one of us, but I've seen people get irate. I've seen people then fight or whatever, but I've seen you maintain that same just cool, calm, and I think that that contrast is what made you show what it is. Well, sometimes I hear people brag about not studying or preparing for interviews, which to me is so like almost offensive to the nature of what I think that this thing is supposed to be about. Because let's say I say, OK, I'm down to do the Twisted Black interview.

1:00:00I immediately have a pit in my stomach of anxiety and it goes away by me doing my research. You know, once as I learn about the person and I start to wrap my head around and I'm like, OK, I feel like I understand this guy. I know what I'm going to say to him. I know how this is going to go. Then I feel all right about it. But up until that moment, like it's draining my energy thinking about like, what am I going to ask this dude? I ain't looked into him. And yeah. And then I spent a half hour doing research and I'm like, okay, now I'm good. And then I spent a couple more hours and I'm like, all right, now I'm really good.

1:00:29But I feel like that's a, that's a crazy thing to. Yeah. But no, that's real. Cause that's your craft. Yeah. And you're really into your craft. And I'll tell you, tell you something on the flip side, I'll be transparent with you. Because I know how seasoned you are. I know. So that same anxiety that you may have felt prior to knowing whatever, by me not knowing what's coming next, I still feel it. The whole time, like this motherfucker right here, you can't never relax with him. You see? So I'm just being honest. But at the same time, though, what makes it easy for me, it has made it easy. Like, I don't have to dress up.

1:01:04I don't have to have on a jewelry kit or none of that because I don't really have skeletons. Like, I wear my shame like motherfucking clothes. I've been fucked up. I done made the fucked up decision. This fucked up shit. Right. And it is what it listens to my music. Okay, just as a side question, it's kind of like this new world that we live in where it feels like there are people who've been locked up for decades, whether it's Big Meech or Larry Hoover, which is kind of funny saying the names back to back like that because I feel like Rick Ross. But Rick Ross had a song where he said, I feel like Big Meech.

1:01:39Larry Hoover but they both got hit with this in the last few months where they get released or in Larry Hoover's case seems like he might be released at some point in the next few years if the if the state takes pity on him but right as these guys are getting out and preparing to accept their heroes welcome and everything then the internet does their thing and they try to find a way to call them a snitch like that that's kind of like a new thing that we're witnessing it's so much easier for a random youtuber to look up paperwork and everything like that like how do you feel seeing that i mean even you like getting accused randomly just because of the song even though it doesn't make any sense because timeline wise this was out before you got shot and everything i mean what do you think seeing all how publicized all that shit has become i mean that's just that's the new world like and that's the thing when it comes down to the street shit right and i tell it i used to tell people this from the beginning i tell artists this hey man if you're gonna try to rap So, rap what you know.

1:02:42Because if you don't, like, say, if you rap or you're talking about how you knock motherfuckers out, I do this, I do that, you know, I sold all the bricks. Motherfuckers from your neighborhood are never going to let, or from where you're from, they're never going to let you take off. You're going to poke holes in your balloon. Because we know you, motherfucker. Far few and in between, motherfuckers will slip through the cracks. You see what I'm saying? So, I say that to say, that's what it is. So, if that's what you did, you may as well go in and get in front of it. If that's who you are, man, get in front of me.

1:03:12Like a lot of dudes that sell drugs, Adam, they just get money, niggas. They ain't really about busting that pistol. Say that. Because you get to popping off like you're about busting that pistol. The one that bust the pistol, they trying to look at you, especially with the fighting shit. But if you're just getting money, you got to act like you're down to bust your gun, even if you really ain't, and you got to just hope that nobody really tries you, right? Well, not for real. Not in real life, because if you're getting real money, if you ask motherfuckers getting money, ask the people out there to know.

1:03:39When you're getting real money, the killers insulate you. Because when they say you feed the wolves, if you feed the motherfucking wolves, then the wolves keep you from getting ate. You see what I'm saying? But the squares can't really tell you that because they ain't really did that. That's why you don't hear people up here telling you stuff like that on your show because a lot of them just really be squares and really be weenies. You see what I'm saying? They got a little money, they pop in the street shit. But we know you're a sucker for real. Definitely. To what do you credit being able to have left doing that much time in prison without having to, you know, really go through anything too traumatic?

1:04:19I mean, I don't know what the worst shit you went through, but, like, you held it down, you made it through. To what do you credit that? Right. First of all, because you don't know, hell, I went through, everything I went through was traumatic. I lost my mother. While you were in there. Hell, yeah. That's terrible. I'm the only child. I lost my mother. I lost my wife. I lost relationships with my kids. I lost my career. You mean you lost her as in she moved on? Absolutely. Right. Either way, she moved on to past. Yeah. She ain't mine no more. You know what I'm saying? How many years did that take?

1:04:54Man, listen, and to credit her, she was a good woman. And it's just that I'd say about my last three or four years, no, maybe five, My last five or six years, we knew, you know, just his running course. But she was with you for almost a decade while you were locked up? Absolutely. Wow. Yeah. You know, she played her part. You had kids with her or no? Absolutely. You did? Two. Yeah. Wow. But I did, man, I went through. So I lost pretty much everything. So to answer your question, what do I credit that to is Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior. Because you see, I ain't no big guy. You know, and I ain't the toughest motherfucker in jail.

1:05:34I'm just solid. I'm just a man. And I'm a man 24 hours a day. I don't take a second off of being a motherfucking man. And so one thing I'm going to tell you a secret now. If you ever happen to go to jail, I hope you don't. Maybe you get caught in a bar fight or something. I fucking think you're sweet. If I was going to get in trouble for a bar fight, I feel like it would have been a long time ago. I kind of left the bar part of my life behind. Okay, good. Well, that's good. A lot of good bar fight stories, though. So here's the secret, and anybody that's listening, remember this. Most motherfuckers don't really want to fight, right?

1:06:10See, because a fight is a 50-50 chance. Like, I might can whoop you. You might can whoop me, and I really don't want to find out. Most motherfuckers just want to whoop somebody. And if you become that person they just can whoop, then your ass in trouble. You see what I'm saying? Because that means you ain't got no fight in you. Right. But when you are formidable, I don't give a fuck. Be like, this little motherfucker right here going to fight all day. Fuck that. I ain't going to fuck with him today. You see what I'm saying? That shit really works. So if you're a man in all terms, then people respect you as such.

1:06:43In my experience. Definitely. Yeah. What was the most trying situation? Was there ever a time where it really felt like, all right, this is life or death? Riots. Yeah. Yeah, the riots are scary, you know. But again, man, I'm one of them. So I ain't saying I'm the toughest motherfucker, but I'm one of them to where you be like, you ready, Black? Yes, like a motherfucker, let go. So I could be counted on, as they say. So trying, I'm not going to say, you just tap into the shit you know. And all I knew was survival. And so I survived. But mentally, I didn't realize how fucked up I was until I got home.

1:07:25Yeah, what? burnt me up. Man, half the motherfuckers, you know somebody that did a decade of better in prison, they burnt up. They don't even know they burnt up. Right. Just because it makes you so paranoid and on edge. Man, I tell this story all the time. I was on the goddamn toll, driving, looking for where to put the coins in when I got home. I'm on the goddamn porch. I'm in a foreign car. I'm like, man, I'm panicking on the tollway because I ain't seen where to put these motherfucking coins in. your true story man you know just all kind of shit man technology is the really fucked up part because from when you went in to right now is like the greatest increase in technology in human history if you got locked up in 1900 and then you came home in 1920 the world was changing but it's not changed that much but the difference between 2000 and 2025 is fucking insane.

1:08:25And that's been the majority of my life. That's been since I got out of high school. The world has changed so much it's almost unrecognizable. And it's a lot for somebody that, you know, for the people, and that's the thing you know, when people get out of prisons they don't have very many programs that can you know, roll you back out into society, but you're expected to thrive. Hey motherfucker, don't break the law, you know what time it is, you're going back Yeah. Right. But they don't have a lot of things to get you hip to, to what's going on now. Right. Definitely. So, okay. Were you just going to war the whole time trying to like chip away at your time?

1:09:02Were you working with lawyers or were you just doing your own sort of legal research? I fought the whole time. When I say fought, I don't mean like fought people. I'm talking about my case. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah. Yeah. Cause I mean, it probably takes a lot of courage and strength to just like never give up on that when it's got to feel hopeless at times. Yeah, absolutely. but I did man I fought the whole time I exhausted every motherfucking appeal and what happened that was in my favor and some of the older guys told me it was going to happen it was like hey they're changing these laws you know and so if you're locked up now the laws are changing and they started to change and so each time after the first you know I would say after my first appeal I was in the law library trying to figure shit out anything come down the pike I'm on it you know what I mean because at the end of the day, I knew this wasn't my world.

1:09:53I'm like, nah, fuck all that. I'm getting out of here. And guess what, though? You can catch me on the top tier with some motherfucking reading glasses on, writing motherfucking songs. And then when I got to the point, I started putting out albums through the phone in 09. Right? So I'm trying. I'm already strategically trying to keep myself relevant musically because I wanted to come back and get what they took from me. And I knew I was just that cold to do it. And I'm the only motherfucker that went and did all that time musically and get back and make himself relevant musically. You got people that go do time and get out and bounce back.

1:10:35But 17 years and then come back and be able to put out the music, the people still like, oh, this shit hard. Did you was there anybody who kind of influenced you to do that? Cause I interviewed a X rated and he sort of famously kept his name buzzing. And I've known a lot of people actually listened to his music from person. He's one of the ones that did it. And in fact, I want to say if I'm not mistaken, he may have done it before me. I'm not sure. I think probably he was locked up before you. He may have done it before me. Cause I, I first heard him probably in 2010 and he had been locked up for a long ass time before that.

1:11:12Man, I have four in the federal people, no, federal prisons. No, I have four different phones, right? Four, maybe five pack numbers. So I hang up one phone and then do the hook on the other phone, hang up that one, do another verse. So I pushed and pushed and pushed until I could do it. I was doing albums acapella through the goddamn phone just to stay relevant, you know, and come back and smash. Come back to pop my shit right now. Definitely. Okay, so when do you finally start to realize Oh, okay, this is going to work I mean, because you Did 17 years, you had 30 years At what point, what's the major breakthrough That lets you get out early?

1:11:54Oh, the last thing When Trump came With the first step back That took one year off The first thing that happened, I got three years off For the first crack line, like 08 Then I think the next one came Between maybe 15, 10 and 15 with Ferris Anderson, one of those. And I got 62 months off. That was a nice chunk. And so all together, that was nine years. And then Trump came. Well, I'm not even going to say Trump came, but it was already on the table and Trump signed it in, the first step back. Because I thought I was getting out like 24. You know what I'm saying? But it kicked me out at 23. That took a year off.

1:12:35Right. And yeah, Like how does your mind state start changing as that date starts coming up? I've heard a lot of like crazy stories about like, you know, people will put pressure on you when it gets closer and closer to your release date and they'll try to make you crash out and have to go put in work. Yeah. I've seen that happen. It could happen, you know, to some people, but in my case, man, the closer I got to getting out, the more insulated people became, you know, they started to insulate me more. Really? Man. You think the prison staff also were kind of rooting for you at that point? Even the cops.

1:13:14I was just going to tell you. Even the motherfucking cops. They're like, the assistant warden, I can't remember his name, and Ms. Kennedy, you know, they was like trying to push my paperwork up the chain. Like, man, he did all his time. You know, because I went in there causing them no trouble. You know what I mean? I just did what I had to do to survive prison. So they wanted to see me win. They knew I had mentally, you know, was at the point to where like, hey, man, this ain't my world. So, you know, and the guys, you know, I was always a fair guy. You know, they want to see me out the gate.

1:13:48I mean, you seem like a guy who carries a lot of respect. And I feel like, you know, probably despite whatever hiccups you might have gone through, that probably was the vibe that you had in prison as well, right? Yeah, that transcends when you have respect in the street. It usually will go. with you unless you show yourself something other than that once you're in there. Right. And so, you know, the thing is, I don't try to be nothing but me. Right. Definitely. So what did you come home to? Like, what was it like transitioning back to having a normal life? You know, you lost your mom and your girl.

1:14:25And, like, what was that like? I came home to, yeah, fuck all the loss, right? Fuck all that. Yeah. I came home to realizing that I didn't have no help with my dream, which was to get my position back. Now that is what I came up with. Now my street niggas, you know, hey, you know, shout out to them. They made sure I'm in a Porsche. I got Rolexes on. Really? What? I just would think a lot of the guys who were doing dirt with you back in the day would probably not be in that position anymore. They weren't. But the one that's doing it now, that know I'm official right now, my shine ain't even mine.

1:15:07My shine is from now. Yeah, that's the reason. I just now got to the point where I could stand up. If I wanted to go buy jewelry, I could buy jewelry. If I wanted to go buy another car, I could buy another car. They put me in the Porsche. My brother put me in the Porsche. My partner from Atlanta sent me the first Rolex. My other partner gave me the other Rolex. Then Rose Gold, I can't even say the goddamn name. They get the fake ones all the time. whatever the fuck. I don't even know. Forget or some shit? Yeah. I had to sell that bitch. I got broke, you know, along the time trying to get back right.

1:15:37I had to sell that, but he ain't give a damn. It was mine. But I said that to say, but with what I wanted to do musically. Propel Fitness Water with Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins. Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolytes.

1:16:28find more on Facebook. What you say holds true. The people that I was dealing with, they weren't in position. And the ones that were in position, they're so business-minded, everything was about the numbers. Shout out to Tony Draper. Tony Draper is one in Hollywood Bay Bay. You know, a couple of the people that still in position that was like, hey, you nigga, you know, still fuck with you, you know, but I can do what I can do. You know what I mean? So, yeah, that was the scariest part for me is realizing, God damn, I got to start all the way over. And I was that guy. And yeah. Rap game, short attention spans, typically.

1:17:10And it is also an art form that is in some way governed by the youth because they're the biggest consumer of rap music. So it's like the youth tend to always have their new thing that they're into. And so stuff that is 10, 20 years ago, oftentimes kind of fades into the background to the point where it's not. And also, like, people just age out of, like, hip-hop fandom. You know, a lot of people are 50 and they don't listen to rap anymore. And that's the thing. See, you got guys that have gotten older, maybe not 50, 35 to 50, 35 to 55. That really came from this cloth. They really came from this era.

1:17:50Hip-hop, that's all they know. Nobody's making music for them. they can't ride around this goddamn NBA young boy all day they just got off work driving trucks you know what I mean 50 years old or 45 or 35 years old they might not you know he's going through his own youthful issues and it'd be easy to imagine that a guy who's 50 is not relating to it he makes great music but in my opinion he's not making the music for some of these older gangsters I am right so again but i also the the ones that come from a real cloth real stiff street young stump down street young niggas they know it's official they're like oh shit you know i like this you know i mean so i have kind of created a different demographic right and i've tapped into like maybe yourself right you know that you like hip-hop but you don't want you want to hear somebody kill somebody in every bar yeah you see what i'm saying but at the same time if you know me like I know black.

1:18:53Black done kill some motherfuckers. You know what I'm saying? So you can listen to it and you can appreciate it. You know what I mean? So if I was talking a whole bunch of shit that I wasn't really, you know what I mean? If it was a bunch of fake stuff, then you'd be like, yeah, I know black. He's a sucker for real. Beats nice. Now the rap game is fucked up because they want you to have bodies and they want you to be 17. Yeah, see, that's the thing. It's kind of unlikely. Hey, that's why they're putting insurance policy. That's why the record label is putting insurance policies on a motherfucking artist.

1:19:22I've never actually figured out if that was true or not. I've always kind of heard that. Is it my contract? For real? Like a month. Why wouldn't it be? Shit. Okay, why not? Same logic. I should take out insurance policies on everybody working here, right? Why not? Yeah. I mean. You should have to, right? Really? Like, just so I can get some money if they die? Like, I would rather gamble on other things. Well, I'm not gambling. See, because death is. Life insurance policy is kind of like, you're just gambling. That's a goddamn lie. You're going to die. Well, yeah. Ain't no gamble to that. You lose, bro.

1:19:53Right. If you sit around here waiting to see if you're going to die, you lose. You already, you dead. The gamble is that you will have people around you that need that money and that they will actually get it. Well, here's the deal. It's not for that purpose. It's for looking at how many of them that die that don't have it. And then their people can't even bury them. Then you get suckers jumping on the Internet talking about he couldn't even pay for his funeral, blah, blah, blah. Well, no, if you fucking with me in our paperwork, if hypothetically, if that's what I'm doing, then your burial is taken care of.

1:20:31I don't I don't want money off of benefit from you dying or whatever. But if I spent one hundred thousand dollars on your project and you die and your family don't have anything, then I just kind of lost. But at least let's make sure that if you're over here fucking with Scar for Life and Twisted Black, then, you know, you're taken care of. Right. I mean, it is kind of crazy to think about it. If I pay for life insurance for the next 20 years and I don't die, I just unsuccessfully gambled on my own death 20 years in a row. But it's a weird form of gambling because if you hit, it comes along with the worst possible outcome, which is you dying.

1:21:16And the only people who benefit from it are people who realistically, like, you know, my daughter doesn't understand a life insurance policy, but she's the one who just hit the lottery. If I die, if I have life insurance, who are you? Okay. And I'm gonna take you back to the, to, to black people. Okay. Most of the black people, like my grandmother and grandmother, you know, back there, they pay insurance for fucking ever bro house you know don't play around my window cause my insurance gonna go so they just paid and paid and paid never wanted to fuck with deductible or nothing right Gamma I guess you'd call it a gamble but and nobody won but the insurance company I know a guy who owns a house in Calabasas shout out DJ Vlad and he didn't realize that he wasn't paying for fire insurance for many many years and then all of a sudden that whole fucking area is in flames and tons of the houses around the area burned down i mean he he essentially like made money by not having fire insurance up until the moment that he all of a sudden realized that he needed it and then he was desperate to get it he probably would have paid 10 times the market rate that's but think about it though if you pay if you got a life insurance policy, man, it's not for you, bro.

1:22:37Yeah. It's for whomever, right? Yeah. You know, because at the end of the day, like, the way I feel like, for me, this is just my logic, and I'm not telling nobody else to do it, by me being in the music game. And not only me being in the music game, me being good. Mm. In the music. When I die, because that's going to happen, that's not a motherfucking gamble. Mm. When I die, those streams or whatever, that's like my 401k, my insurance policy for my people. Mm. You see what I'm saying? outside so bear throw me in a motherfucking piece a wood cask i mean a wood casket and burn you or burn me up and send me on don't spend no money on that i mean you want to think about even weirder version of it is like i have a snapchat account and a facebook account and all these accounts that i don't touch i don't manage them i don't fucking touch them whatever if i die realistically the guys who run those accounts are going to continue to take all this content that I created throughout my life and run those accounts still using that content.

1:23:37And then the percentage of that money that I get is going to go to my family or whatever. And that's just so bizarre to think that like, you know, you still are going to have the small business operating online. And I see it all the time because when Fulio died, they went and killed him. His mom was getting paid by weed brands to do weed promotions on his Instagram like a week after he died right and it's hard to hate on it because if the mom just made 50 bands for posting this read ad then yeah and she'd just pay for the funeral and then some and i mean that's the ideology right how could you hate on it man why why would you hate on but it is kind of weird too because it's like i know a lot of people have passed and their instagram stays the same forever and to me that's that just feels right like that's how this should work is like it should just be a testament to your life and it should stop at the exact moment that you pass but a lot of the musicians I know who died young it's like how else are they going to promote their new music that they're releasing that's making money for their kids and their family other than the Instagram right yeah I mean you know if your family is going to benefit from it then you know you know cool but Adam I don't know why you keep thinking you ain't going to die you're going to die oh I know you keep talking about this gamble you're going to die man no the gamble is just paying to bet on you not dying this year oh I bet I guess you are you're gambling on you dying you get the best value on that bet if you die which is depressing because it's the last thing that you want to happen you are going to get that unless you stop gambling before you actually die basically stop paying the insurance I am aware that I pay a significant amount for life insurance right now but I don't really actually know the numbers I am paying for it though it's out there of course you are i don't know so my accountant is like this is probably something you should do i'm absolutely i'll listen to you okay um okay what who actually held you down when you got out because i see stuff like you're doing music videos with bun b and shit it's like that just off the respect that you had for just being an icon in texas over these years that he he wanted to show love or um what kind of how's that kind of stuff Actually, a little bit of both.

1:25:53These were my, Bun and I forged, I had a song with them and dealt with them before prison. Got it. Him and Pimp. And Bun is one, it's crazy you said his name first, one of the most solid individuals in the game. Seems like it, yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so if I had to clear up and say, you know, hey, he has helped me. He did a song with me. It's on the album Storytime. He did the video came to Fort Worth. And if I needed a post, if he reposted, you know, of course, you try, you know, being a stiff guy. I don't want to get heavy either. But the Trill Burger is in Fort Worth as well? No, it's in Houston.

1:26:35That's what I was thinking. Yeah, I just shot a video in Houston a month ago with Killer Cali on where Bun basically shut down the whole parking lot so that I could shoot, you know, and Smackwater and all those guys came out, you know. So Bun is, if not the one of the greatest people and friends that I have as far as in the industry. We're not buzzing buddies as far as we call each other and go out hanging out and hiking and shit. But, man, musically, you know, he's a real guy. Let me just ask you this. During that era where you were coming up in the Texas rap scene, were you seeing these sort of, you know, when we think about Texas now, when you think about the Ronnie situation, the Mo3 situation, it's like we've kind of got used to Texas being one of these states where there's rival gangs and rappers representing those gangs.

1:27:30and they're dealing with each other and all kinds of tragedies happening. Was that the situation when you were coming up or is that a new thing? As far as the gangbanger? Yeah, well, I'm sure gangbanging always existed to some extent, but as far as it being so intertwined with the rap. Yeah, that's new. I mean, you had your beef, but the biggest thing was like Pac and Biggie type shit. I don't think I remember hearing about rapper beef from Texas until, you know, well after, you know, you probably went in. Yeah, that shit, that shit. Swish the house era, we didn't know it. Right, nah, man, because really it was like a coalition.

1:28:05And that's what we would say is like, okay, California's fucked up, New York's fucked up, there's all this beef, but look at Texas. Texas, you got the eight biggest rappers from Texas and a fucking parking lot shooting a music video together. See what I'm saying? And that's what it was. That's what I left. Yeah. And that's the reason why when I'm home, that's the reason why I'm looked at like I'm looked at as the OG, right? I can have a song with Go Yeo. everybody named me Goyeo CJ Casino PB

1:28:36Solo Luchi they don't expect you to take sides in all this no not at all and they know I won't and they know if me and you were shooting a video then not only because all those little guys are gangsters not only are they going to have their little guys out there not to call them little like they're not formidable. But they're going to have their shit out there. But then when you're fucking with me, then my cloth is coming out. And you're up under my cloth when you're with me. You're safe. You know what I mean? So if somebody was to break that, then shit, you're rolling on me too. Not to say that I can't get rolled on, but it's not that smart.

1:29:15Right. Definitely. So how did you end up doing a posthumous song with Moe 3? Do you have connections to his people? Or what was the linkage there um that was rainwater shout out rainwater great man i'm surprised he wasn't the one who connected us because it was actually gold toes who told me hey i got this guy twisted black you got to talk to yeah well you know see gold toes connects gold toes um definitely is one of the ones that um can see the value and he and he you know gave me a shot you know him and a money and and you know kind of used some of his uh alliances you know to so that i could get my story across Rainwater, on the other hand, Rain came to show love when I first got out of prison.

1:29:59Came through, checked out the music, all of that. And we remained cordial. And so with the business, like I said, my little nigga song blew up. And he was like, damn, this motherfucker still can tell a story. Because he had told me to be telling stories, you know, to get back on your story time. and so he I had been wanting to do a you know of course you know me being the hottest thing out of Fort Worth and Moe 3 you know being arguably one of the hottest out of dollars the hottest out of dollars I always wanted to do that song and I talked to Moe 3 twice while I was in prison about doing one but he never got around to doing it and so when I did that song he reached out to me about doing the song and man when I tell you we we went to war over that goddamn song I did I did that song about three, four times.

1:30:49Oh, really? Hell yeah. He kept making me rewrite. I'm like, man, I'm not finna write this song, man, another motherfucking time. Wow. So you guys had the kind of relationship where he could tell you to rewrite a verse? I mean, it was business. Yeah. Yeah, it was business. I needed this as well as he wanted me. He needed it too. So relationship-wise, we don't really have a relationship. We can call each other and, you know, let's get to the business. but we don't, we, him and I, we probably share space 72 hours before we realize, like, you know what, I'll just call you when I need you. You know, I don't got nothing bad to say about Ryan at all.

1:31:27When it comes down to managing and doing what he has done for Mo3's career, man, fucking genius. Yeah. And resourceful, and the like, taught me some shit just in that little quick span. but you know we're just you know young guy we're just different yeah definitely um okay but were you locked up paying attention to everything motore had going on in the streets in terms of like all this crazy shit with yellow beasy and you know it's like like were you tuned in to the the various soap operas that were playing out in the scene i was i was tuned in with all of it but not as much as when I done the song and the way that we were able to accomplish is he brought me up to speed so everything that I say on the song like from this nigga 5 too couldn't dunk a basketball if he tried to I'm talking about from everything Rain gave me that insight he had the wherewithal to say hey you need to know everything and we sat up in my studio we got there at like 10 o 'clock we didn't leave till like 6 that evening you see what I'm saying and he gave me everything I needed.

1:32:35And I was like a journalist, you know, like literally writing that shit down and I went in there and just, you know, pieced it together. That's just part of my gift that I'm able to do. I can listen to what you say or I can take a story and do what I do. So when you look at Go Yeo, do you see a little bit of yourself as a younger guy in him? No. What was the difference? let me tell you Yeo is cut from see if a motherfucker thinking that Yeo is any two ways ducking something then they're wrong he's ready to do whatever he is bro for better or for worse but if you know Yeo he is a good when I say kid I mean it with the utmost respect he's a good kid I'm gonna say that cause I'm an old motherfucker He's a good motherfucker for real.

1:33:30But no, nothing like me. Yayo will fight your ass. He'll fight you in the middle of Times Square. Yeah, for sure. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. If you offend me in the middle of Times Square, then probably, you know, at that age, you know, then I would probably duck you if I could. He's done a bunch of time, but you've definitely got the perspective of somebody who really wants to make sure that they don't have to go do more time. For him, he got time to do time. His ego is so, you know, and it's not just that, but he just knows that so many people want to try him, want to try to disrespect him on music, whatever.

1:34:08And he knows that if he wants to survive as a rapper, he's got to go hard. He has to make it clear he's not scared. He's not moving around in a scary way. He's not. Yeah. But here's the deal, man. Yale is no motherfucking fool. See, that's the thing about it. I can say that. This little guy, man, he's not a fool, brother. Right. You know what I'm saying? So if you're thinking that, you know, that, yeah, this motherfucker, I'm going to pull up with my cameras and I'm going to see what this motherfucker is talking about. He's going to give you exactly what you're looking for. Oh, yeah. He is. He sits in this chair.

1:34:40And I feel like he realized at a certain point that the best thing he can do for his career is to just be himself 100 % and to just say exactly what he feels. But even me, I was taken back a couple times when I last interviewed him when somebody mentions Sauce Walker getting shot in Memphis. And he goes, I wish his ass had died. I'm like, whoa. All these years doing these interviews, I've never heard somebody say that about their enemy. But look, here's the deal. Now, keep in mind, now, Yale since I feel like he's from Fort Worth, right? And he's one of the ones, him and PB are one of the two, both of them, that I feel like like I understand, like, you know, you kind of cut from, you fabric in that cloth, you know what I mean?

1:35:24I get you. And so I'm rooting for him, right? But when, so if, like he do shit like that. But I say to myself, yeah, what the fuck is you? Right. But then when you talk to him, it's a method behind his madness. Right. And you have to just let the young man cook. yeah he definitely um has has realized the value and just being unapologetically himself and any any like reasons why he might have you know kept that shit to himself is is gone and he just realizes that you know i get along with who i get along with and i don't get along with i don't get along with and you know what i'm gonna use this shit and i'm gonna go viral by telling the world exactly how i feel a lot of people you interview them and you could ask them about their biggest op in life and they're gonna say yeah he cool or whatever keep it super gangster yeah like I don't know him like that yeah I ain't heard nothing about him I don't know you know all the time that happens and so it's so weird and different to be interviewing somebody who's willing to really actually tell you what he thinks about you really actually don't give a fuck with it you know whatever happened you know real talk and he's talented he's a wild guy um okay but like the little Ronnie situation we talked about how you kind of used him and Goyero as characters in this music video, but when you see something horrific, like what happened to Ronnie take place, how does that make you feel about where our culture is going, where the society is going, et cetera?

1:36:54Yeah, that one was a better pill. Because when I got out of jail, like I said, I don't have nobody. I'm like, damn, I'm about to start this shit over. Ronnie was one of the first people to pull up on me. and I had never met him prior to that. He just watched my ascension, right? He pulled up on me, showed me how to work that camera, showed me how to pop that shit when it come on, you when the camera comes on. And you could see like some of my first interviews, there weren't even interviews, first just doing content I was with him and I was so goddamn uncomfortable, you know, like cameras. I just got in jail.

1:37:31We weren't doing all this, you know. And so he was just really, he was a good young man. you know what I mean and you just didn't see you didn't see much malice in him and I'm a pretty good judge character. Do you think in your in your era in that generation would that have happened where somebody I mean I guess it's possible that the shooters didn't know his daughter was in the car but a lot of people looked at that and their reaction was kind of like damn I remember a time where women and children were off limits. Well the thing is is Yeah, that could have happened in any era, probably back when the Mac was out.

1:38:14But you have to ask yourself or ask someone that knows if they knew the child was in the car. Yeah. And that makes all the difference in the world. I guess they're all gone now, so we're not going to get to find out anyway, yeah. Yeah, maybe so. But if they knew the child was in the car, then that's crazy as hell. but if they didn't then you know maybe you know I don't too much like to speak about that because I don't want to offend nobody all I can say is he was a great kid for sure to me what um what about the rise of Charleston White who you know it feels like a lot of people might hate watch him or they don't like him but they're watching the shit anyway because he's got moments of wisdom and he's outrageous and entertaining and funny but you know he's certainly a new development in the sense that he's like a hip hop personality who gleefully embraces snitching and kind of takes issue with the streets what do you think of him and you know him becoming kind of like such a huge representation of Texas to people I don't think he's a represent and I'm not going to sit here and faint like I don't see that he's all over the internet when he does some of the foolishness but he's not a representation of Texas.

1:39:35I can see, and it's crazy, man, because I had to deal with that with him, but I can see bits and pieces of, because he's from Fort Worth as well. You can see bits and pieces of Fort Worth, you know, like the high side and being quick, you know, playing the dozen, you know, he's great at what he does. What the fuck is it you do? What really is that? And so when it comes to him, he's just one of those guilty pleasures, right? So, because I found myself watching, I was just watching the clip of him on my way over here. Somebody had just sent me, you know, talk about this song with me and Yale. Yeah, he's going to got this old rapping milk, you know, he just.

1:40:20So he's talking about you like currently. Oh, yeah. This was just, yeah. Oh, I was assuming that this was like a while ago. Oh, no, no, no. He used me for clout. Still yapping about you. Oh, no, no, no. In the beginning. Oh, no. this just happened. This was a new clip. He was talking about me. Just randomly came up or. He always just randomly throw a rock. He's a weenie. Just to be honest, like, and then I wish, wish Wack was here. He will be here within 20 minutes. Whenever he get here. Cause this, Hey, this fucking, this butthole is going to say everything. He said, say what you want to say.

1:40:53Cause obviously you are, uh, Charleston. But when he sat there and say he the man in Texas, like he, like as if the streets were, respect him? That is not the truth. Man, police, you live in wherever it is you live, and you go where you go. Nobody's looking for him. Now, I'm speaking for myself. I'm not looking for you or nothing like that, but you ain't got no respect in the streets down there, man. You might got one or two homeboys that you feed. You know, like I say, you feed the wolves, keep them getting ate, but man, ain't nobody fucking with you for real. He hates street niggas because he was never accepted by the street.

1:41:30Now, I got a partner named Chris Alexander that he just randomly go off on, you know, because he knows Chris don't got the platform. But if Chris had the platform, that he got Chris to shut his ass up because he got so much ammunition on the wing. Really? I mean, you think Charleston White is able to move around Texas without having to be extremely concerned about his security, or you think he's moving around very cautiously? I'm telling you, I don't have to think at all. He's moving around very, very... Man, I've been home for two years, you know what I mean? And I've never once seen him. If I did, it ain't like I'm going to pull up on him with no smoke or no shit like that.

1:42:05But I ain't seen him one time. And I'm outside. You dig what I'm saying? So hell no, he ain't just moving around. You see, you know, and then it's not like he ain't got, you know, touched up, you know, for saying too much sometimes. You know what I'm saying? Man, what? Tell him to go out. Tell him to go out to where everybody go out, you know. You don't think anybody cares enough to smoke him? it's back to what you just said. It's back to what you said. Nobody want to go to jail. Especially knowing this nigga the police. You see what I'm saying? But also it's not like he snitched. He's just talking about shit online.

1:42:39To me it's not like he snitched. Well okay so back in the day he did snitch. But he's not like he snitched on anybody around right now. Hold up. The man used to call the halfway house on me man. My first day I... Hey really? What? About what specifically? When I first get out of prison You know, I stopped to see my children, but because of who I am, it was a motherfucking parade. Okay. This man called the halfway house, man. Man. Then when I was throwing my first show, he called out when me and Yayo was shooting the motherfucking video. The man called the police. Wow. Man. That's grimy. Yeah. Yeah.

1:43:16Oh, he grimy as fuck. Like in real life. I have laughed in the past when he like called people's probation officers and shit and like ratted them out for shit on YouTube. it's fucked up hearing it from your perspective i'm like damn that is yeah and i just did 17 years like a motherfucker right so and this bitch right here was trying you gonna go back to prison and but you just you know i'm gonna make sure i make sure of it i'm you know that's the type of shit you own so listen hey fella just stay out my you know hey you call who you want to call because guess what i have a rapport with my probation officer i walked that bitch down i have a rapport with the Fort Worth Police Department because guess what?

1:43:55They're watching. Everybody knows now, but when I first got home, for him to be doing that type of shit, and my rap sheet already say that's what I'm on, so yeah, it could have worked in his favor, but it didn't. Crazy. So where's your head at now in terms of life in general? What are you focused on and what's important? Man, it's beating the eyes because the chips are stacked against me, you know what I mean? Like I enjoy music, love music, but my end goal is the silver screen. And I'll tell you something else too, man. I want to have a, I'm taking a scar for life and dealing with different artists, like dealing with A Money and Gold Tolls and running distro through Empire.

1:44:39So I got those guys that came with me, they're Polynesian. Sifo and Fatboy, they're Polynesian. Now, who would think that the first people that I run through my distro away from Texas is going to be some Polynesians from California? It's 2025. But they hard as fuck. They hard. I'm serious. When you look at them, you wouldn't think so. You'd be like, uh. But when you hear them, you'd be like, oh, shit. So I'm not trying to rap forever, brother. I'm just really, really good at it. so I'm you know hook my wagon to some of these good artists like um C4 and Fatboy and and and run it and man just enjoy life because I missed a lot of it you know try to enjoy my family you know kids grandkids shit like that what's your relationship with your kids like at this point because they must be grown right oh yeah they're grown yeah yeah love the pieces they love me back you know what I'm saying so yeah and I have I have um I have two two I almost said that you You almost got me just when I'm trying to get me to look down.

1:45:40Damn, I almost hit the ages. But yeah, they're good. You're still trying to obscure your age. Yeah, I am. I'm like 100. Wait, but so what's that like trying to like sort of reestablish a role in your kids' lives when you've been gone for that long and they're adults and they don't realistically, they don't need a parent in the same way that they do when they're super young, but you want to be part of their life. Was that challenging? It is, man. You just take what you can get. Yeah. I don't have a blueprint for it. I take what I can get. You know, hey, if you call me today, it's great. If you call me tomorrow, it's better.

1:46:14You know, if you call me every day this week, then I'm ecstatic. So you take what you can get and you try to be there for them when they need you or before they need you. Right. You dig what I'm saying? Because you can't take back the fact that you've been gone. So two kids? Three. Three. All boys, one girl? Two girls, one boy. Okay. And so the boy, does it feel like he's a risk of following your footsteps? Absolutely. Man, he's so much better than me. Okay. Oh, my God. Well, the rapping would be the positive side of things. Oh, no, no. He does music, and he's good. Okay. But I'm talking about he's a better person.

1:46:52He's a better man than me. He's never been in trouble. You don't think he's going to be tempted to get in the streets? Fuck no. He would have been there. Yeah. You know what I mean? He's 32 years old. Oh, 32. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, he would have been there. He has a son, and he's trying to make sure that he doesn't, you know, have to leave his. Right. Yeah, my son is way smarter than I was. Wow, that's great. Oh, yeah. That's good to hear, man. Yeah, thank you, man. No, I'm glad you've been able to rebuild so much, and it's motivating to see you be able to come out on the other side of this.

1:47:23Well, you know what's even better than that, Adam? Shameless blood. Oh, I love that, yeah. Here we go. It's the movie. Yeah. We're shooting a movie right now. Shout out to JT. Shout out Drewski Drew, who's doing the editing and all that. And it's called a docuseries, Hustle A Go Broke. And everything is reenacted, and then it's live shit. It's like BMF on steroids, but it's all the truth. Or it's not. Kind of a little bit both. It's not if you're trying to get me in trouble, but it is if you know me. For sure. Yeah, so it's going to be interesting. So, you know, I've been wondering this the whole interview, and I'm just finally getting around to asking it, but you don't seem that twisted.

1:48:13Right. You seem like you've got a decent head on your shoulders. Man, thank you. Was there a time period where you were a little bit more twisted? I'm not going to say. Depending on what you call it, twisted. Well, I think twisted, I don't just think, you know, shot somebody so dope. That's not twisted. Twisted is like fucked up. I don't think I've ever. Well, you know, I don't think I've ever been there, Adam. I think I was just one of the ones that played hard. You dig what I'm saying? So in the streets, I played. Yeah, I played hard. And so when these guys get to talk and brick talk, money talk and stuff like that, you know, I was one of the ones.

1:48:49So, you know, so. But Twisted actually came from after I got shot and my body's twisted up and shit like that. So, no, no, I've always been. And then right. To be honest with you, man, when my guys knew that I was coming on your show. Yeah. I heard this from a few people. They was like, man, please don't go on his show and be humble. Yeah. I swear to God. Right. Because I'm just naturally I'm not trying to be humble. But when life humbles you, you're not faking. So if I get up here and I'm popping my shit, I'm not I'm not go. You know, I'm not, you know, Goyayo is, he's unapologetically brash, right?

1:49:32I'm just not. That's why when you ask, does he remind me of me? No, I've always been reserved and a little bit more calculated. I tell my girl, I'm humble about everything except how humble I am. One more time. I'm humble about everything except how humble I am. I think I deserve a gold medal for humility. For humility. I got you. Yeah. You know what? It's only. She really gets annoyed by me saying that. But you know why? If I had to guess, you say that because you know that you're home. You know that. Yeah. Yeah. Like when you know that, like, fuck that. You know, don't call. Like my wife will call me arrogant and hard, but she'll call me a narcissist.

1:50:17My wife will call me a narcissist. And I'm like, you don't understand the people I'm around. I'm around some motherfucking narcissists. that's what I be thinking I'm like man no I'm not I'm like no man you got people around that like Trump you know what I'm saying like come on a good rapper needs to be Trump-esque a lot of times and I was just about to say you took the words out of my mouth the only thing that I'm not humble about is my ability to do music if you get on a track with me if you go and check my albums when I do features with Bumby, Scarface, whomever. I'm bringing it. And I'm still doing it right now, 17 years on Ice in the Feds.

1:51:05Everybody knows. You make a phone call, you call live. Would you do a track with Twisted Black? They're going to say, yeah. Would you send them your verse first? Hell no. So that's the only thing I'm not humble about is that and probably me being a hustler. I respect it. Twisted Black, I appreciate you, man. Thank you for sharing the story with us. Everybody tap in on all socials and tune in for the movie and new music dropping and everything like that. I appreciate it. I want to say before I go, this is going to be one of your

1:51:40soundbites or whatever, right? Sure. Clickbaits. If you turn out to be a federal agent, I'm going to be mad as a motherfucker at you, bro. Just know that. I'm serious. I really like you after today. oh thank you i like you too yeah i'll tell you this is that when the feds did come a knocking trying to subpoena a cease and desist that i had received from big u i sent my lawyers to talk to the feds which ended up costing me like five grand i'm looking at the bill afterwards i'm like i let you motherfuckers talk to this dude and i have to pay you five grand i could have had this fucking conversation with the feds myself because it's not like they actually wanted anything from me besides an email that had already been sent that they already had access to so there's really no reason that they even wanted it from me because they could have very easily got it from the other end.

1:52:25But either way, I mean, yeah. I spent five grand to not have a conversation with a fed that day. You did the right thing, brother. Because you did the right thing. So, hey, that way you can say that shit. The Twisted Black on all social media handles. T-A-G Twisted Black. Fuck with me. There you go. Appreciate you, dog. Twisted Black. No jumper. Coolest podcast. Like, comment, subscribe. For where we in the building. Fuck all the weenies. Yeah. Fall is the perfect time to refresh and reorganize your space. At the Home Depot, find power tools and tool sets starting at$50 to help tackle DIY projects, home updates, and more.

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