Colorado Governor’s clemency for Tina Peters backfires

23:03when it's available, we let people know in our city, camping can't just be a choice. We got to get you indoors into a safe place. And that balance of compassion and real alternatives combined with some accountability has led us to lead California in reducing homelessness. We're down one third. We have one third fewer human beings living outside in tent encampments than when I started as mayor. And I think we've really started to build a model for how we solve this crisis in California.

23:31Brian Tyler Cohen:So if you were to put a number on what a reduction in homelessness or homeless encampments would look like that you would consider a success by the end of your first term as governor of California, what would you put that number at? Yeah, it's a great question. I would say something on the order of one third as we've done in San Jose. I'm in my fourth year in San Jose. And what we did in the third largest city in the state is what I was just describing and built. We scaled up cost effective alternatives. We invested in prevention. We saw the number of people living outside come down by about a third.

24:08So it would be on that order. I mean, I will say I am always skeptical of politicians who come in with these big headline numbers. We're going to build three million homes and then we, you know, we build 500 ,000 or something. So I just, you know, but yes, we have been heading in the wrong direction. We've been spending tens of billions of dollars and we've seen the number of people outside either grow for many years or now kind of level off, totally unacceptable. We need to scale up a lot of shelter. We need to build more housing. We need to invest in prevention. And when alternatives to the streets are available, including treatment centers, we need to require people come indoors.

24:44Brian Tyler Cohen:Finally, a topic that's near and dear to my heart as I live in Los Angeles, moved here for the entertainment industry, and have watched the industry get decimated over the course of the last decade or so. We're at the point where we have the fewest number of people who work in the entertainment industry in Los Angeles or in California more broadly that we've had, you know, I think since they've been tracking this and like anecdotally, I've seen my own friends and my own circles of people leave this state and in some cases leave the country to follow the jobs, whether it, you know, whether it be in the UK or Canada.

25:21Brian Tyler Cohen:And of course, there's a bustling film industry in plenty of other countries around the world, Australia, New Zealand, Bulgaria. And so in terms of kind of resuscitating this industry, what would be your plan for Hollywood? Yeah, thanks, Brian. And, you know, all three of the issues you've raised here, housing costs, homelessness, Hollywood, our three H's are all real crises for the state, And they need to be treated as such. I'm running because I've seen a complacency in our government around these issues and a few others. I would say our third grade reading levels would be another that for me would rise to that level where a majority of our kids are not on grade level for reading, just to give you another example.

26:08But on Hollywood specifically, you're right. An iconic industry, a core part of California's identity, a source of well over 100 ,000 middle class jobs, a driver of so much other economic activity, the heart of our most important largest city is at risk here. And we have been way too slow to react. I put out the first plan for bringing production back to California of any of the candidates in this race. I took a lot of time early on when I first got in the race to talk to everyone, a really diverse set of people in the industry. You know, the unionized workforce, SAG, AFTRA, and IATSE, and the Teamsters and their members, you know, talent, producers and directors, financiers, and really get a well-rounded view of it.

27:05The first and most important thing we have to do is put a stake in the ground, recognize that production is not coming back if we aren't bold, and create a tax credit that makes the cost of production feasible in California. And my proposal is dead simple. It was the first plan. It's the simplest plan. I think it's the best of any of the candidates in this race. It is matching what you're seeing in other very competitive states and countries. It's a 40 % tax credit. it's above and below the line. So you're capturing the full production cost and it's uncapped. So we just say this is the new rate and you don't have to go through a bunch of rigmarole of all this paperwork and then waiting and hoping and am I going to get it and is it tapped out or not?

27:52And that uncertainty kills investment, as you know. So I think we keep it dead simple, very aggressive. Now, we know there are other things. We've got to solve the housing crisis so that people can afford to live here who work in the industry, right? We've got to improve permitting so that the friction around actually shooting in California is more straightforward. I mean, there are other things that have to be AI is a threat to the industry. We've got to strike that balance between two of our leading industries, our creative industry, Hollywood and tech, and say, look, your image, your likeness, your voice is part of your IP.

28:26It's something, it's you and you need to be compensated when it's being used by a third party. And so I think there's a lot to work on here, but I would start with just making it possible to finance production in the state again, because I think that's really at the heart of where we started to get our lunch eaten by a lot of other places.

28:43Brian Tyler Cohen:Yeah. And I'm glad you said uncapped tax credit, because oftentimes it comes down to that. Is the tax credit better here or in Atlanta or in New Orleans or in New Jersey or in New York. I mean, all of these different states and of course, different countries saw what we were able to build in California and how lucrative and and sexy this industry is and, you know, did what they needed to do to take it away. And a lot of times, you know, these producers are just looking for where is it going to be the most financially viable, financially advantageous for me to do this project. And if there's better tax credits in Atlanta, they'll go to Atlanta like Marvel did.

29:18Brian Tyler Cohen:And then Marvel saw that there were better tax credits in the UK. And so they left Atlanta and went to the UK. And so oftentimes it's just that's the bottom line is who's going to have the best tax credit. We know that as far as tax credits are concerned for the entertainment industry, it's a net positive ROI. And so the more money that you that you put toward these tax credits, the more you make on the other side of this thing. So I'm glad to hear your position be that you want to see an uncapped tax credit. I think it's critical and it's a huge risk to not do it. We are already paying the price.

29:54And again, it's not about it's about the workforce. This is about people having careers and opportunity. And and it's about our identity as a state. I yeah, I take it very seriously. So I appreciate you asking. And it's solvable. And as governor, I'm going to make it a priority.

30:12Brian Tyler Cohen:And finally, last question here. I've been especially focused on redistricting on the national level, and I was very supportive of Prop 50 and and using the tools that we have at our disposal to fight fire with fire and neutralize this this power grab by Trump that he was taking that he was taking part in in Texas. But since then, since we've neutralized those five seats in Texas, we've seen Republicans redraw their maps in Missouri, Ohio, North Carolina, Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana. And this redistricting war is just going to continue, even in the event that other blue states are able to jump in into this process, which, you know, look, you know, at its core, I do think is a scourge.

31:01Brian Tyler Cohen:And I do want to see national legislation banning partisan gerrymandering nationwide. But what I want to see first and more importantly is no unilateral disarmament on the left. And so even if we're able to wield some weapons that we have, you know, for an extra seat in Maryland, in New Jersey, a few more seats in New York, a few options for seats in Illinois and Colorado, we still have no bigger weapon than California. And so in the event that this continues to go in this direction, would you be a proponent of a map that's that's basically a 52 to nothing map in the event that, you know, we have these Republican states who view this process as them being entitled to engineer themselves a permanent majority in the House?

31:45Brian Tyler Cohen:And if California is one of the only weapons that we have to counteract that, until we have some nationwide legislation banning partisan gerrymandering nationwide, would you be in favor of a more aggressive approach to neutralize what we're seeing happen at the hands of the GOP? Well, Brian, look, I support Prop 50, and I hear your argument, and I fully agree with, I think you made the key point, which is you can't unilaterally disarm. And so I get where you're coming from with this. What I said, though, when I endorsed Prop 50 was, I fear this is a race to the bottom that has no end, and that in the long run, it's not clear to me that our party's going to win this.

32:29And so am I open to continuing to fight fire with fire? Yes. And I need to look at your proposed maps. But look, I think that at some point, this doesn't serve anyone. And my fight more than anything is, number one, I guess I'd say two things on it. Number one, we have to make a stronger case nationally to ban partisan gerrymandering in all 50 states. And I know you're acknowledging that. I know we're not disagreeing on that. I just I think we sort of say it in passing and then move back to our entrenched partisan battles. And I want to I want to find a way. And it's a priority for me to build a more diverse coalition and really change public opinion on this nationally, because I think it really undermines the long term health of our democracy.

33:18and I'm worried about it. And so, I mean, frankly, I kind of held my nose in endorsing or supporting Prop 50 because it just, it felt like we're in this race to the bottom. It's really dangerous. Now I get it. The other side, the other team isn't playing fair. And so I wouldn't expect, you know, we shouldn't unilaterally disarm. But here's the other thing I'd say. Those games are only going to get Republicans so far. At the end of the day, voters are pretty smart in aggregate over time. And we don't always get it right in every election. But in the long run, I believe that the arc of history does bend toward justice.

33:53And I think my number one job as governor is to make this state shine, to make it work, to get to improve our public schools, to build housing, to bring Hollywood back, to get every child on grade level and every homeless individual indoors and really make a national case that democratic policies are more fair, they're more life affirming, they're more productive, they create greater opportunity, and that our values are right because they work in practice. And that is my primary focus, because we could sort of fight the political games forever and end up losing our democracy. So I guess I'm a little, you know, I'm a little torn on it, to be honest.

34:40But I'm happy to continue the conversation with you and let's see how things are playing out. Matt, for folks who are looking to help your campaign, where can they go? Thanks. Well, first of all, Brian, I appreciate the opportunity. It's been great to chat with you. You've asked some great questions on really important topics. My website's probably the best starting place, Mahan, M-A-H-A-N, for california.com. Pretty easy to find online. And then I'm all over social media. You can find me on any platform where we're constantly talking with folks about the issues and how we're going to get California on a better track and really make sure it is that beacon of inclusivity and hope and upward mobility and really a strong counterpoint to this MAGA movement.

35:22So, Brian, thank you for the opportunity.

35:24Brian Tyler Cohen:Of course. Well, I'm going to put that link to your website right here on the screen and also in the post description. For those who are listening on the podcast, I'll put it in the show notes. Thank you so much for taking the time. Best of luck on the campaign trail. Thanks, likewise. Appreciate it.

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36:42Brian Tyler Cohen:Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so that they know we sent you exclusive for listeners of no lie. Helixsleep.com slash BTC. I'm joined now by candidate for governor of California, Javier Becerra. Thanks so much for joining me. Brian, good to be with you. So a lot to discuss here. as it relates to California, but just want to cover some national news for the moment. There has been a lot of talk about the fact that Trump has put forward this$1.776 billion slush fund to pay insurrectionists who participated in the January 6th riot. Can you give your reaction right now to the idea that even when Americans don't have enough money to pay for health care, food assistance, gas, groceries, you name it, that we apparently have enough money to turn each one of the 1 ,500 pardoned insurrectionists into millionaires?

37:34Yeah, taxpayer money for lawbreakers. Makes sense of it, Brian. I can't. We're paying in California six, seven bucks a gallon for gasoline because of Trump's reckless war with Iran. And now he's talking about giving more than a billion dollars away to his cronies, to his, those that he pardoned who were convicted of committing crimes, in some cases committing crimes against law enforcement officers. So I don't get it. And it's not so much Donald Trump because it's no longer about what Donald Trump says and does. It's really what Republicans in Congress say and do. Will they support this? So then they are accomplices to this, not only illegality, but the recklessness in using taxpayer dollars.

38:18All right.

38:19Brian Tyler Cohen:So I want to look into the California race for a moment now. There are obviously a lot of Democrats who are vying for for this spot in the jungle primary runoff. What differentiates you from the other candidates right now? You know, polling just beneath you, depending on the poll, is Tom Steyer and then Katie Porter and Matt Mahan. I'd say that I won't need training wheels when I get into the governor's office. This is a time of crisis, whether it's the crisis of the cost of living for so many Californians as it is for the rest of the country, or whether it's the manmade crisis coming from Washington, D.C., like this latest one of giving away over a billion dollars in taxpayer funds so you can help lawbreakers feel more gleeful that Donald Trump got elected.

39:08It's kind of crazy, but you need someone who actually knows how to deal with this. And it helps to have someone who's actually balanced the budget, the size of the state of California. I'm the only candidate who's actually balanced the budget larger than the budget of the state of California. I'm the only candidate who knows what it means to declare a state of emergency and have to deploy resources and personnel to respond, as I did when I was secretary of HHS. And I'm the only one, as everyone talks about being able to take on Donald Trump, I'm the only one that really did it. I took him on toe to toe when I was attorney general and not just once, not just twice, but over 120 times.

39:42And we beat him in court all the way to the Supreme Court. I defended the Affordable Care Act in the Supreme Court, beat Donald Trump. I defended the DACA program for Dreamers all the way to the Supreme Court and beat him. And so I think people are finally saying that as they look at the candidates, it helps to have someone who won't need training wills once they enter the governor's office. All right.

40:02Brian Tyler Cohen:So let's talk a little bit about three issues that I've been especially focused on are housing, homelessness and and Hollywood. And I've been speaking with with both California gubernatorial candidates, but also L.A. mayoral candidates. I live here in Los Angeles. But as it relates to some housing reforms that you would like to see, can you speak about what would change under your administration? We move faster to implement the reforms that we're finally seeing take place in the legislature. where we're going to streamline the process of permitting, the zoning requirements that local governments impose, the fees, the impact fees, and the costs that are saddled on a developer in order to get a project going.

40:46We're going to try to streamline all of that, make it so that you can actually get your permits and your sign-off faster than it actually takes to build the property, because today it takes longer to get through the bureaucracy than it does to actually build the units. And so we have to flip that around so it becomes a prospect where you can actually see not just the light of day, but you can see how you'll be green, not in the red after you do the construction. And so that could take any number of forms. There are some 40 ,000 affordable housing units that are actually ready to go, shovel ready.

41:20They just don't have the adequate financing, so they're on hold. I would do everything I can in my first 100 days. I will declare a state of emergency in our housing crisis. and I will do everything I can to find the money to unstick those so people can see that we're actually building. I think that starts to give people confidence that we're serious about what we say.

41:40Brian Tyler Cohen:And how do you do that? Do you hire more people for permitting? Do you have a mandatory cap on the number of days that a permit could be languishing before it's automatically approved? What does this look like in practice? Because I know from friends who are contractors, I know from listening to God knows how many interviews from people, oftentimes, and you alluded to this as well, oftentimes you spend more time just waiting for permits and shouldering those costs than you do actually putting a shovel in the ground and building those carrying costs. And so what would be your specific plan to make sure that the whole permitting process can move quickly?

42:22Yeah, administrative time limits. The agencies would have shot clocks. They would have a limited amount of time to get the work done. They can't come up with an excuse. Secondly, you make sure that you limit the types of activities that a developer has to jump through the hoops. So if you jump through one hoop once, you don't have to jump it a second time but with a different agency. Once you've done it once, you're clear. And once you've gone through all those checking all those boxes, then by right, you should be able to build. And so you don't have to go back to square one. And you can accelerate this.

42:56By the way, you don't need more people to do that work. What I will do is I will have within my office, essentially a SWAT team that will manage this for the state government to make sure that our agencies are not the hurdle, the obstacle to getting these permits taken care of and moving forward. So we'll do all we can on our end to move the process. We'll work with local governments who also have an interest, of course, in how this is done to make sure that they don't delay. And what we'll then do is make it clear. You go through that process, you check your boxes, you start building.

43:30Brian Tyler Cohen:Now, another issue is homelessness. I'm curious what your reaction to to the most recent interview that Spencer Pratt did with CNN's Alex Michelson, where he basically said, you know, he was talking about Los Angeles specifically, but this idea of taking people and putting them into some finding some space to like round up homeless people within the city limits and putting them there and mandating some type of treatment. I don't know if you've had the opportunity to see that interview or what I'm speaking about, but can I have your general reaction to that? Yeah, and I haven't seen it, but based on how you've described it, I'd say it's a coarse description of the type of work that ultimately we need to head towards something that shows progress.

44:19That sounds a little rough, probably sounds a little illegal. But what I would say is this. You have to have outcomes. You can't accountability is the operative word when it comes to homelessness. If we are going to give billions of dollars and it's been tens of billions of dollars over the last five to eight years that we've given to cities and counties, we're entitled to see results. And that means outcomes. And what I would say is this. If a program that a city employs is not producing results, getting people off the streets, then shut it down. If a program is producing results, then scale it up.

44:54Get the money from the program that isn't working and give it to the program that is. But ultimately, to the degree that Spencer's talking about moving people off the streets, everyone says the same thing. It's just how you do it so you don't confront the law having done it the wrong way. We all know that the homelessness crisis is just not a homelessness crisis, not a shelter crisis by itself, right? It's a mental health crisis. And if we don't tackle that mental health element along with the drug addiction crisis, then we're never going to resolve it. So I would make sure we're doing that. And quite honestly, as governor, since I don't control the streets of a county or a city, my biggest role will be to make sure people don't become homeless.

45:34I will work to improve the programs that we have to prevent people from losing their shelter because it costs so much more to pick someone off the street, get them stood up, get them cleaned up, get them ready for a job than it does to help someone who's already working but had a medical emergency that took all their money or lost their job and they're right now temporarily without work and they're looking for a job. I'll stand you up to keep you housed versus wait till you become homeless and then try to pick you up.

46:00Brian Tyler Cohen:You know, in speaking with Mayor Bass in Los Angeles, she had mentioned that she that the city had spent roughly seven hundred million dollars and had gotten a few homeless people off the streets and into facilities. But like a few thousand people on seven hundred million dollars seems seems kind of egregious. Do you would you say that that that program would you consider that program a failure? I certainly don't see anything that spends hundreds of millions to get only a few thousand off the streets. I don't see that as a success. You have to go into the details, obviously, to find out what's going on.

46:38But I would want to make sure that we're getting real results for the money. If you think about how many units you can actually build for$700 million, I mean, I hate to think of it that way. But if you can't move people off the street when you're spending more money than it takes to build the unit, something's wrong. And as I said, I would scrap those programs that aren't really succeeding and then scale up those that aren't. And there are some that are successful.

47:05Brian Tyler Cohen:So I want to move over to the issue of Hollywood. I moved to Los Angeles 15 years ago to be part of the entertainment industry. I remember what it was like to be in this city when it was bustling and working. And I see what it's like now where we have lost people out of this industry for years and years and years, not only to other states but other countries who recognize what a lucrative and successful business it is. And so I'm curious what your plan to revitalize the entertainment industry in Southern California would be. Yeah, and Brian, here I have to start off by reminding folks that I was the congressman who initiated the production tax credit for the entertainment industry back in the early 2000s.

47:49Because being the congressman for Los Angeles and being the only L.A.-based member of Congress who sat on the Ways and Means Committee, which is the tax writing committee where you do credit tax credit work. I was approached by the industry early on and they said, we're getting ravaged. We can't compete with the types of incentives that are being provided throughout the world and throughout the country. And so they were saying we need help. And so the first couple of years was tough because everyone thought, well, why do you need to give Tom Cruise or George Clooney a tax credit to produce? And I said, it's not them.

48:23It's the grips. It's the construction workers who build the sets. It's the caterers who feed everyone. The ripple is so vast. Finally, we were able to get it through. I mean, it's beyond that.

48:34Brian Tyler Cohen:I mean, it's transportation, it's local hotels, it's local restaurants, it's the entire industry is downstream of these productions going. And so, yeah, you're right to say that it's not just Tom Cruise and George Clooney. There are hundreds of thousands of people who rely on this industry thriving to survive. Well, we got it through. And since then, we've now seen the state jump in and do something. And last year, they improved it. You're even seeing the localities now, Los Angeles trying to do more. And so here's what I would say. Hollywood is iconic. It's not just an industry. It's an icon.

49:05People come visit Southern California just so they could take a photograph in front of the Hollywood sign. We will lose so much if we lose the industry. It won't just be the production. It'll be everything that comes with it, the tourism, the things that make Southern California a destination point. So we've got to fight. Somebody pulls out a knife and says we're going to give you a tax credit if you come do your production in Sydney. Then we pull out a knife, too. If somebody in Toronto says we've got to pull out a gun to make it attractive for you to come, we pull out the gun. Fight fire with fire.

49:34We do everything we can because so long as this industry creates more wealth and revenue for the state of California than it costs to do a tax credit, then that's where we're going.

49:44Brian Tyler Cohen:Would you be in favor of uncapping the tax credit, recognizing that based on the studies they've done for previous tax credits, there is a net positive result? I think you spend a dollar, you get a dollar 14 back. So for every dollar that you invest, we make more money, not to mention all of the intangibles that we just discussed. And so to that end, recognizing that this is a profitable venture, would you would you be in favor of uncapping the tax credit? Yeah, that's let me put it this way. That's my default where I would want to go, Brian. But here's where I tell you 20 years of doing tax policy comes into play.

50:21You get a lot of promises, a lot of promises for what you what you do on policy. and sometimes those who make the promises don't deliver. So here's what I say. I'm willing to go wherever we need to, whether it's uncapping, whether it's increasing the percentage of the credit that can go for particular types of production. What I want to know is I want to see results. I want to see that that caterer is still in business. I want to find that that construction worker is still building the sets. I don't want the money just to go to the George Clooney's and the Tom Cruise's and the profitable directors and all the folks in the studio.

50:56I want to see it going. I want to see it rippling out to the entire economy. And so show me. And that's where I say I want to get data. The one thing I will really push is to get the data that shows us what's going on. So we can then say with evidence to the legislators and to our people who are going to say, what gives you giving tax credits to the movie industry? And say, this is why. And because these jobs depend on it. Your economy, your local economy depends on it. But I want the data. And so I want to see where the real numbers are so we can make sure that it's reaching everybody who's supposed to be in the industry benefiting from these tax credits.

51:33Brian Tyler Cohen:For those who are looking to help your campaign, where can they go? Javier Becerra, 2026.com, or just watch the news. You'll see some commercials. You'll know how to get a hold of us. Great. I'm going to put that link right here on the screen and also in the post description. Secretary Becerra, thank you so much for taking the time. I appreciate it. Brian, good to be with you. No Lie is brought to you by Factor. So we've all been in this situation. You're starving, you're exhausted, you know what you should eat, but it involves cooking, and that takes time and you just don't have it in you. So you grab the snacks instead.

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53:21Brian Tyler Cohen:And the best part? It's ready in two minutes. Factor shops, preps, cooks, and delivers straight to your door so you have more time for everything that you love this spring. I am very, very picky about what I eat, and I can eat Factor meals every single day. So head to factormeals.com slash btc50off and use code btc50off to get 50 % off and free daily greens per box with new subscriptions only while supplies last until September 22nd, 2026. See website for more details. I'm joined now by North Carolina Supreme Court Justice Anita Earls. Thank you so much for joining me. As we see right now the results from the Georgia state Supreme Court election, which obviously didn't go the way of both liberal candidates.

54:05Brian Tyler Cohen:How does that inform the urgency of this moment as it relates to to your race in North Carolina? Well, I can promise you. So I first ran in 2018. And that was also two years after President Trump was elected. And so I certainly understand that I don't take a single vote for granted. We're going to work as hard. I've been campaigning since really since January of last year. and you know it's a big state but my goal is to get across the state so that people know who I am what I stand for what our court does I just don't think they've had that same experience in Georgia so so I I've not for a minute have ever said that I'm gonna rely on the the wind at our back as Democrats in the state.

54:57I know that even in 2024, there was huge drop off between top of the ticket. Some almost 200 ,000 voters voted for Governor Josh Stein and did not vote for Democrat Justice Allison Riggs. So we know that at my campaign, we know we have to do everything we possibly can to reach voters across the state.

55:23Brian Tyler Cohen:You had mentioned Justice Riggs' race, and I was heavily involved in promoting that race as much as I could. I think I had Justice Riggs on no fewer than half a dozen times while she was campaigning. Are you expecting any similar interference given the fact that obviously North Carolina Republicans have a proclivity to interfere in these elections? And this isn't even new. I mean, North Carolina Republicans have been have been an especially anti-democratic breed of that party for a long time from early efforts to gerrymander that that state with I think the the judge in that case said that it was done with surgical precision all the way to the Jefferson Griffin example where you know there was a concerted effort to try and just undermine Justice Riggs win by trying to invalidate votes that benefited her from jurisdictions that benefited her so are you expecting any similar nefarious behavior from those on the right?

56:20Well, what I can tell you, prior to being on the court, I was a civil rights attorney for 30 years and litigated voting rights cases. It is absolutely clear that the fight to protect our democracy in this state has always been a very difficult, challenging one. What we are seeing already, and one important difference this year from 2024, is that now our state board of elections is controlled by the state auditor, a Republican. All of the county boards of elections are now under the majority control of Republicans. And we have already seen efforts that, to my mind, to my eye, mirror vote suppression going back 20, 30 years.

57:00So the state board of elections sent letters to 241 ,000 voters in this state this year saying there's some discrepancy between your voter registration and our other records. Would you please contact us? But then at the bottom of the letter, in big black bold letters, it says, furnishing false information in response to this notice is a felony. So, you know, I've heard from folks who are afraid that they risk a felony conviction if they go to vote. Now they don't. And anyone receiving this letter, I want to be clear, they absolutely can vote. There is nothing wrong with their voter registration.

57:37But that, to my mind, mirrors what happened in 1990 in North Carolina, when the prominent African-American mayor of Charlotte at the time, Harvey Gant, challenged Jesse Helms for the U.S. Senate. Again, you know, very hotly contested race. And in that race, the North Carolina Republican Party sent postcards to black voters across the state saying, if you've moved, it's a felony to try to vote. Now, that, again, is not true as a matter of state law. And at that time, the U.S. Department of Justice Civil Rights Division sued the North Carolina Republican Party and resulted in a consent order in which the Republican Party said, you know what, we won't do this again.

58:21Brian Tyler Cohen:Yeah. So again, putting that history on full display. Now, you had spoken a little bit about what we can expect as far as you being on, continuing to be on the state Supreme Court. What are some of the cases we can expect to go before the court to kind of underscore how important it is to continue having liberal voices be present there? Well, let me answer that in two ways. People should appreciate that our court decides all sorts of things that impact their daily lives. So we issue decisions that impact how much they pay for electricity, whether or not the state government can protect our environment.

58:55We decided a case implicating whether Duke Power could pass on to consumers the cost of cleaning up coal ash. We decide issues about whether workers who are injured on the job are fairly compensated, whether people who go to the emergency room and are uninsured and charge more than insured patients, whether they can sue hospitals over that, all sorts of ways in which people's pocketbooks are impacted by decisions that we make. But we also make those decisions that impact fundamental rights. And in 2022, our court was four Democrats, three Republicans. And that court decided that extreme partisan gerrymandering violates the state constitution.

59:38We required that districts be drawn fairly. And this was a very nonpartisan decision. We set out neutral criteria to measure whether a map is a partisan gerrymander or not. And so it wouldn't matter which party did it. If it was unfair, it would be unfair to the voters of the state and violate their state constitutional rights under that opinion. So when districts were redrawn, North Carolina sent seven Democrats and seven Republicans to Congress. But then the court flipped. After the elections in November of 2022, the court became five Republicans, two Democrats. And the new court did something that courts never do, should not happen, hasn't happened in the over 200 year history of our court.

1:00:20They said, we're going to rehear that same case. And they concluded that they don't have the power to constrain the legislature. So the state legislature redrew our congressional districts. And in 2024, North Carolina sends 10 Republicans and four Democrats to Congress. So this really impacts the entire country. If North Carolina still had that 7-7 delegation, today Congress, the U.S. House of Representatives would be in control of Democrats. There would be an entirely different environment in Washington in terms of checks and balances on the power of the president. And we, you know, need to have state courts that understand the importance of protecting people's rights.

1:01:01Brian Tyler Cohen:This idea of that the judicial branch has no power to constrain the legislature, I presume that's an offshoot of the independent state legislature theory. But isn't that counter to the very foundation of our government where we have checks and balances and the courts are there to serve as a check on a legislative branch that's not following the law, for example? Exactly. My judicial philosophy would say that it's the role of the state Supreme Court to hold the other two branches of government accountable to the state constitution. And in fact, our court recently failed to do that with regard to another fundamental state constitutional right.

1:01:45That's the right to a sound basic education. And we eliminated, we ended a piece of litigation that had been going on where trial courts found that our schools were not offering a sound basic education to all the students. A prior court, the 2022 court, ordered that the state fund public education. New court 2023 puts a halt to that order. And then just a couple of months ago, our court ended that litigation. But I would just want to point out to folks that other rights, our court is fully ready to order the state to do the right thing. So when it comes to property rights, if the Department of Transportation wants to build a road over your private property and you don't think they're paying you the money that they should for your property rights, you go to court and the court will order the state to pay you money for taking your property rights.

1:02:39So my point is, certain rights our court believes in enforcing. They have stepped away and, in my view, abdicated their responsibility to enforce the rights of our children to have a sound basic education and the rights of our voters to cast a ballot and have that ballot counted equally. And I just have to remind people that my court is the one in four Republicans on my court ordered that the ballots of military and overseas voters be thrown out in the 2024 election. So think about what that means. People who put on a uniform to serve our country. Our state court said their ballots would not count.

1:03:22And it was only because a federal court stepped in and said that that order violated due process and equal protection under the federal constitution that those votes were counted and Justice Riggs was sworn in as a justice.

1:03:37Brian Tyler Cohen:What do you presume will be the most significant case that you'll have to contend with in this upcoming term? We will be hearing a lot of cases about separation of powers. Does the legislature have the power to weaken our governor? They passed a number of measures that have taken power away from the governor, and those will be pending in front of us. We will continue to be hearing cases about electricity rates. And on the criminal side, North Carolina has the death penalty. There are numerous death penalty cases that will be coming before us. And I think that public safety is vitally important.

1:04:16I think that our justice system needs to understand what it takes to provide public safety. So there's just a lot of important issues that will be continuing to come before us.

1:04:30Brian Tyler Cohen:On more of a national scene, and I know that this is not going to be an issue that you contend with personally, but I'm curious what your take on it is. As it relates to this$1.8 billion slush fund, from a legal vantage, do you presume that something like this would hold up in court where you have Donald Trump make a deal basically with himself that instead of a$10 billion self-deal payout from the IRS to the president of the United States, he's going to settle for a$1.776 billion slush fund where he has virtually unilateral authority, even though it's via handpicked. commission members to dole out money to convicted insurrectionists to the tune of making each one, each of those 1 ,500 pardoned insurrectionists millionaires.

1:05:21Brian Tyler Cohen:Can you speak on the legality of that move? Well, what I can say is that I fundamentally believe in the importance that no one is above the law. And that goes for people who attack police officers, that goes for public officials that whether rich or poor, whatever your background, whatever your station in life, in this country, I believe we fundamentally rest our government on the notion that no one is above the law. And so that means that these issues now call upon the courage of state, sometimes state court judges, sometimes federal court judges. But I continue to hold faith in the in the proposition that we have enough judges across our judicial systems who understand the importance of the rule of law and who have the courage to and the backbone to stand up and and rule the right the right way without fear or favor without unfairly bending the law to to fit a particular political ideology.

1:06:34So that's, you know, my philosophy has always been the importance of equal justice under the law. I am not beholden to any particular political philosophy. I just want to make sure that we live up to that guarantee of equal justice.

1:06:49Brian Tyler Cohen:Justice Earles, for folks who are watching and listening right now, how can they help your campaign? And when does voting start and end? Right. So in North Carolina, my election will be in the general election on November 3rd. People can learn more about me and support my campaign by going to my website, earlsforjustice.com. I'm on seven different social media platforms. You can link to all of them through my website. But please follow me. Please share my social media information and help me get the word out because, you know, I have less than six months now before November 3rd. And I want to make sure that people across North Carolina understand how important their vote is.

1:07:34Brian Tyler Cohen:And I want to kind of emphasize for folks who are watching and listening right now that if you saw what happened in Georgia, where I think a lot of people took the national environment for granted and those two state Senate seats didn't go in the Democrats direction. This is an opportunity to make sure that we focus on this race and focus on this race early. You know, obviously, in trying to get a majority back on the North Carolina Supreme Court, it starts with with winning this race right here. your money, your contributions go a long way, especially in these races where there's not got, you know, endless sums of money pouring into them like like like major Senate races.

1:08:14Brian Tyler Cohen:So I'm going to put the link to Justice Earle's website right here on the screen and also in the post description of this video. If you're listening on the podcast, I'm going to put in the show notes, take the opportunity, elevate her voice, make sure that people know that this race is happening. And that's going to be the biggest step forward in terms of making sure that people get out there and vote. So Justice Earls, with that said, I appreciate you taking the time today. Best luck on the campaign trail. Thank you so much for caring about our courts. Thanks again to Matt Mahan, Javier Becerra, and Anita Earls.

1:08:43Brian Tyler Cohen:That's it for this episode. Talk to you on Wednesday. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesley, and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five-star rating and a review.