Todd Blanche squirms at chance to contradict Trump

0:00Brian Tyler Cohen:Todd Blanche squirms when confronted with Trump lashing out at Jeanine Pirro for not continuing to prosecute an innocent man over his reflecting pool lies. And I interview Norm Eisen about representing that very Olympian, David Hearn, after the DOJ dropped the charges. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen and you're listening to No Lie. So I'm going to play just a couple of clips that pretty well summarize what Todd Blanche's latest press conference sounded like. The president has publicly criticized U.S. Attorney Jeanine Pirro for her decision to drop the reflecting pool case. Do you agree with the move to dismiss the charges against David Hearn?

0:38So, look, I think that U.S. Attorney Pirro, over the past year and a half, year and a half that she's been there, year plus, has led an unprecedented effort to literally over just turn this city on its head to be a safe place for all of us to live and eat. And so I've watched the communication that President Trump, who has every right to be extraordinarily frustrated with damage done to our national monuments and in this city and elsewhere, but Judge Pirro is doing a great job. And in our city, Washington, D.C., is a lot safer in no small part to her effort and the prosecutor's efforts that she works with.

1:23What message does it send, though, if President Trump fires a U.S. attorney because she determined there was not sufficient evidence to charge four people with a crime? Did he fire her? What message would it send, I said? Hypothetically, if the president chose to fire a United States attorney, it turns out he's allowed to do that because he's the president of the United States.

1:42Brian Tyler Cohen:So that was Todd Blanche flailing when asked what should be some pretty easy questions if you are, oh, I don't know, the nation's top law enforcement official contending with whether or not an innocent man should still be prosecuted even after it's become clear that he's innocent. And yet still Todd Blanche, as you've heard, couldn't bring himself to simply say that he agrees with the decision to dismiss the charges because none of this is about what's right. It's about what Trump wants to hear. This is all the proof you need that Todd Blanche is not in his position because he'll abide by the law.

2:13Brian Tyler Cohen:He is there because he's Trump's puppet. Not that we didn't already have fair warning. Are you and President Trump friends? I'm his lawyer. Was his lawyer. So I guess there were clues. But I think the most remarkable part of these exchanges is Blanche being asked for his opinion on the hypothetical and possible scenario where Jeanine Pirro is fired for dropping these questions. charges. Blanche offers only Trump is allowed to do it. That's what he said. And look, there is a difference between what someone could do and what they should do. The question was not, does Trump have the legal right to fire a U.S.

2:50Brian Tyler Cohen:attorney? The question was, what message does it send if Trump fires a U.S. attorney because she determined there was not sufficient evidence to charge for people with a crime? And if the top law enforcement official in the country cannot acknowledge that it is wrong for a president to fire a prosecutor for not prosecuting an innocent man, innocent by the Department of Interior's own standards, then that person doesn't have the character for that job, period. Todd Blanch is as corrupt as Donald Trump, which I understand is precisely why he's in that position, but it doesn't make it any less disqualifying.

3:23Brian Tyler Cohen:I mean, just think about what we're saying here. This isn't some abstract concept. Like this is the president of the United States trying to destroy an actual man's life. This is a former U.S. Olympian because Trump wanted to make a point. Forget being devoid of any shred of empathy. This is sociopathic behavior to try and prosecute this guy, to lock him up for something that you know he's not guilty of. And perhaps now everybody understands how Trump operates. He doesn't care who he has to destroy so long as his ego is protected. He did the same thing with with Kilmar Abrego Garcia. His own government conceded that Garcia's deportation was a mistake, but Trump didn't care because he needed to make an example out of him.

4:03Brian Tyler Cohen:He had to protect his ego. And now he's doing the same thing with David Hearn. Like he wants to be right. And so he would rather prosecute an innocent man than dare admit he was wrong. And Todd Blanche, again, the nation's top law enforcement official, can't bring himself to say that that is wrong. And as far as Piro is concerned, look, in a sane world, she would serve as a warning sign to every other Trump acolyte out there that you can debase yourself for Trump to the ends of the earth and God knows that Jeanine Pirro has. But in the end, it buys you nothing. And that's because Trump demands total loyalty.

4:38Brian Tyler Cohen:He doesn't care if it destroys your career or even takes away your very freedom. You are his tool to wield. And if you dare think about yourself for even a single second, you will be summarily discarded, thrown right under the bus. Again, Pirro literally had no choice here. The Department of Interior already let the cat out of the bag. So if Pirro didn't drop these charges, she would be prosecuting someone who she knew was innocent by her administration's own admission. But of course, Trump's reaction wasn't, you know, relief that an innocent man wasn't going to get locked up. It was fury that he personally was contradicted.

5:11Brian Tyler Cohen:And the fact that Todd Blanche can go along with this with a straight face goes to show you that you can have integrity or you can serve in this White House, but clearly not both. Next up is my interview with Norm Eisen. No Lie is brought to you by SimpliSafe. So working in politics, I have become a stickler for personal safety, which I'm sure isn't a big surprise. But as I was considering home security systems, I realized that they're all designed for after. After the window breaks, after someone's inside, after you get the notification, after the police come. SimpliSafe is the first system designed for before, stopping a break-in before it even begins.

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6:21Brian Tyler Cohen:SimpliSafe has been protecting your world for 20 years. Right now, you can get 50 % off a new SimpliSafe system. Go to simplisafe.com slash BTC. That's simplisafe.com slash BTC for 50 % off. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. Everybody knows about the DOJ backtracking on this reflecting pool case. I'm joined now by Norm Eisen, who represented former Olympian David Hearn, who was at the heart of this case and now vindicated in the aftermath of the DOJ dropping its charges. Norm, first and foremost, Donald Trump was asked about this and continues to cling to this idea that, in fact, Jeanine Pirro was absolutely dead wrong to drop these charges.

7:02Brian Tyler Cohen:And even though the Department of the Interior and the DOJ now have evidence that suggests that David Hearn didn't do anything wrong, that he didn't cut a 350 foot gas in a reflecting pool, Still, he wants to see him prosecuted. So can I have your reaction to Trump's insistence, his obstinance on this idea that a known innocent man should still be dragged through the ringer? We said Davey Hearn was innocent when the case began. He, unusually for criminal defendant, went out and proclaimed his own innocence. We started filing motions on the defense team, Brian, the day after he was arraigned. I filed my first motion with my wonderful colleagues, Mary Dorman, the Washington Litigation Group, Steve Levine at Steptoe.

7:52With that first motion had pictures, before and after pictures, including from the government itself, showing that Davey Hearn had not done anything to that liner, that it was the same before he touched it and after he touched it. And we've continued to file those motions. So finally, the U.S. Attorney's Office, Judge Biro, was forced to admit what the evidence showed. Donald Trump can't handle that. It's not the first time that we've had this challenge because, Brian, as you know, there's been a series of innocent people who have been prosecuted and persecuted by this administration. But like many of those others, Davey Hearn is not going to break.

8:43He's a three time Olympian, many time world champion. He understands rigor. He's tough and he's going to keep on going no matter what the president or anybody else says.

8:56Brian Tyler Cohen:Is there any likelihood that far from just feeling vindication for beating these charges, that he might actually go after the federal government and seek some monetary damages as the result of them dragging him through this process, knowing full well that he was innocent and yet all of these law enforcement officials coming out and offering up this conclusion anyway? the worst thing contemplated by american law is the power of the state the overwhelming force particularly through criminal proceedings trying to crush an innocent person we're reviewing all of the options. Everything is on the table.

9:44He's got a very capable legal team and all options remain in play. For now, the focus is on getting the case dismissed. But you haven't heard the last of this matter because in America, this is not supposed to happen.

10:08Brian Tyler Cohen:Trump seems to be hellbent on insisting, as I mentioned before, that Jeanine Pirro was wrong to to drop these charges. Knowing what we now know from the Department of Interior and from all of this documentation showing that, in fact, it was the result of a botched job and not vandalism. What would happen to Janine Pirro as the U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C., had she nonetheless insisted on continuing with this prosecution? Well, you face the most serious consequences when you prosecute an innocent man after you've been told there's not enough evidence to establish proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

10:51the most serious consequences, ethics consequences, ability to practice law, potential civil liability, possibly personal liability if it's bad enough. It's the worst thing you can do as a prosecutor, as a government official, to go after someone innocent. But I do not accept the statement in the government's extraordinary filing on Friday that it only figured this out after it asked the Department of the Interior for all the evidence. I mean, come on. We filed brief after brief with evidence, photographs, testimony, proof that Davey was innocent. They knew it. And that is also in itself a serious problem that that knowledge was there, we believe, established by our filings before the Interior Department supposedly revealed the truth to them.

12:04So that's one part of that government motion from last Friday that I find a little hard. It doesn't it doesn't carry water, Brian.

12:15Brian Tyler Cohen:I'm curious. There is some thinking online or among some folks, the skeptics who think that, you know, this is all just Trump needing to find someone to cover for him. And so he, you know, let Jeanine Pirro know like, hey, this can't be my fault. I need I'm going to lash out at you a little bit. So just, you know, play along. Do you think that this is that this is Trump understanding what happened or do you think that he's a true believer that Jeanine Pirro should have actually gone through with this prosecution and that when he attacks her online and says that she made a mistake that he's actually being earnest and that this isn't just KFA basically.

12:56Yeah, this is not a some kind of insect dance or kabuki performance. Yeah. She has enraged Donald Trump by conceding the truth, even if she did it with a extremely implausible excuse that, oh, the Department of the Interior pulled the wool over our eyes. Come on. nevertheless the truth has been revealed including through those motions that we kept filing one of them was to take discovery about possible grand jury wrongdoing and then the decision to drop the case came right after that is that a coincidence I don't know the truth of all of this will come out. It always all leaks out with this administration.

13:53But I do know this. Davey Hearn is innocent. The proof is overwhelming that Davey Hearn is innocent. And anybody who perpetuates the lie that he did anything wrong is doing a grave disservice to the Constitution, to the rule of law, and to the idea of America. This is not a country where we prosecute innocent people, Brian.

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15:55Brian Tyler Cohen:Please support my show and tell them I sent you. You know, what strikes me so much about this is that that's exactly what Trump was willing to do. He doesn't care whose life he has to destroy or who he has to destroy in pursuit of just salvaging his ego. I mean, this was all about not wanting to be wrong. And so, I mean, it's sociopathic behavior to be willing, knowing that that Davey Hearn was completely innocent, to be still willing to throw the full weight of the federal government behind his efforts to prosecute him, to destroy his life, to lock him up, knowing what they knew. But like he placed his own ego above this guy's freedom.

16:35Well, I won't get into analysis about what the heck is going on. But the reaction, I will say, has just been to underline the innocence of Mr. Hearn. And I will say that it has been very gratifying to see those of all political stripes, even many who normally support or agree with President Trump say, hey, this is an innocent man. He's a three time Olympian, repeated world champion canoeist. The evidence doesn't prove it. And it's wrong to continue to attack him. So the president has managed to unify the country around that, Brian.

17:30Brian Tyler Cohen:Norm, I'm curious, during the lawsuit, while you were speaking with the judge, what has come of this idea of the presumption of regularity? And I ask that because, and for those who are watching who don't know what the presumption of regularity is, is that there is normally deference paid to the federal government. That when the federal government says something, because they have years of of good faith behind them, judges are more inclined to believe the things the federal government says, that they're acting good faith, that they're not lying. What they say is true. Knowing the extent to which the Trump administration has lied for years at this point, and especially in this case, is there any indication as to whether judges are still granting this Department of Justice the presumption of regularity?

18:15Brian Tyler Cohen:or has that been all but obliterated? Well, we haven't yet reached a decision on the motions we filed, the pretrial issues, of course, the trial itself. So I'll confine myself to my other over 300 legal cases and matters, although the Hearn case certainly has done nothing to restore the presumption regularity. It has been obliterated over the course of our matters and the hundreds of others that we've seen over the past year and a half. Whether it's birthright citizenship, where at Democracy Defenders Fund or action, we've litigated cases denying the plain meaning of the Constitution. Dr. Lisa Cook, another wrongly persecuted individual from the Federal Reserve, we took that to the Supreme Court and won.

19:22The other corruption cases, the slush fund case in Florida, the Kennedy Center case. Over and over again, we've seen in these cases that the administration is forcing its lawyers to make arguments that don't pass the smell test. And of course, you are going to lose trust with judges, with juries. You know, in a lot of these cases, they're either thrown out pre-trial. That happened in another case. I worked on the labor leader, David Huerta in California, peacefully protesting ICE. in at least Tish James or Jim Comey. You know, you see these cases and sometimes they come after the people again and again, Brian.

20:21It's so wrong. It's so un-American. But I will say, and a positive sign, the American people see through this. Donald Trump's approval ratings have sunk to lows that are now approaching Richard Nixon's in the depths of his of his corruption crises. So just reflecting on my other cases, I do think the presumption of regularity has been blown to smithereens.

20:52Brian Tyler Cohen:You'd mentioned your other 300 cases. What is next? What's coming down the pike in terms of what we can expect from the infatigable Norm Eisen? Elections, elections, elections. We have a large portfolio of election safeguarding activity at Democracy Defenders Fund. Our 300 cases and matters include a large number of those. For example, in Fulton County, Georgia, we quashed the criminal subpoena where Donald Trump was trying to dig into the 2020 election. We had a long, hard fight in court. We finally succeeded there. Redistricting, we had one of the biggest redistricting successes, Prop 50, adding five seats to the pro-democracy landscape in our country.

21:45just today we filed in the United States Supreme Court on behalf of 55 former federal and state judges mostly conservatives and republicans a brief saying Donald Trump's second executive order tampering with elections should not be allowed to take effect yeah we defeated his first executive order. And Brian, my team and I are ready. I was part of many of the 63 cases in 2020. We are ready to do twice that number. I told the team, let's get ready. 126 cases if necessary. We will protect this election. If you are watching, you can rest assured that my colleagues and I and so many partners around the country are ready to make sure that your vote can be cast and the elections proceed freely and fairly.

22:50We are not going to let anything happen,

22:54Brian Tyler Cohen:any sabotage when it comes to these elections. To that end, for folks who are watching and listening right now, you know, I've always been an advocate for the people who are on the front lines doing this work, and you are chief among them. So for folks who are looking to support your efforts, where can they go? They can go to Democracy Defenders Fund or Democracy Defenders Action. Brian always very kindly puts those links, our website, on the screen. And Brian, I have to thank you and your viewers and listeners. We have been on this journey together since the very beginning of the Trump administration.

23:35And there were some dark days at the beginning, but we've continued in court. Our wonderful partners, clients, other organizations, the democracy movement has done the same and a series of successes, thanks to the help that you and your viewers provide. So we're very grateful to you and everybody watching for that friendship for us, for the democracy defenders family, but for the constitution and rule of law and the idea of America. Let's get moving with forward progress again on that idea.

24:11Brian Tyler Cohen:Perfect place to leave off. Norm, as always, thanks for the work you're doing. Thanks for taking the time today. Thanks, Brian. Thanks again to Norm Eisen. That's it for this episode. Talk to you on Sunday. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, Produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesley, and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five-star rating and a review. And as always, you can find me at Brian Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels, or you can go to briantylercohen.com to learn more.