Trump makes blunder that'll sink the GOP in midterms

23:27Brian Tyler Cohen:That's it. We'll leave it there. Senator Sanders, as always, it's a pleasure to speak with you. Thanks, Brian. Take care.

23:36Brian Tyler Cohen:No Lie is brought to you by Ethos. So I recently lost a family member that I was particularly close with. And when I was going through that process of him being in the hospital, I learned really quickly how little control that we have over our health when things are dire. But one thing that we do have control over is making sure that we're prepared. Ethos makes getting life insurance fast and easy, 100 % online. You can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes, and get same-day coverage. There's no medical exam, you just answer a few simple health questions. You can get up to$3 million in coverage.

24:05Brian Tyler Cohen:Some policies are as low as$30 a month. And you'll get your lowest rate from their network of trusted carriers. And speaking of those who are trusted, Ethos itself has 4.8 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot with over 4 ,000 reviews. So take 10 minutes to get covered today with life insurance through Ethos. Get your free quote at ethos.com slash BTC. That's E-T-H-O-S dot com slash BTC. Application times may vary. Rates may vary. You say we have big questions about potential fraud in California. We do have big questions about fraud in California. Let's just deal with the facts for a second. We do have election fraud.

24:49We charged a case just last month. I'm not sure if you covered it. But there was an individual who was caught on video paying homeless people in Skid Row to register to vote with false information. That's not a theory. That's not a suspicion. That is a case that we filed, and she has pled guilty to that. So that's a conviction. So we have multiple cases in that vein open on election fraud. Now, the question that, you know, you ask many is, is it widespread? How much is it? Is it enough to sway an election? Well, the answer is we don't know. No, you can't say no. You haven't done an investigation.

25:26You don't know. No, you don't. You don't know because we have not been able to get. We haven't done an investigation. We want to get the voter rolls. You haven't. Oh, we're doing the investigation. You are just, ah, that's different. So then you have not conducted an investigation. You are conducting one. So you don't know. And you are in the business of knowing right now. We're conducting investigations. You don't. You are pointing to one case. And you know what? You could point to a dozen. Do you know why? Because those are all the cases you've made in the last decade. A dozen individual cases.

25:58I did not say. I did not say that we have found wide-scale fraud. There's two different things going on here. You're saying for sure you know. Hold on a second. You're saying for sure you know there isn't. I'm saying we don't know because we haven't been able to look at all the evidence at scale. Now, why is that? Let's talk about the voting system in California. Mr. Assaylee, if you were in a court of law right now, and I don't need your opinion on the system because you're not a voting system expert. You're a prosecutor. That's why I have you here. If we were in a court of law, you said judge.

26:29I was in the legislature. I was in the legislature on the election committee. I know a little bit about California's voting system. Yes. So wait a minute. You want me to take somebody's experience in a state legislature for how long? I was there. I was in the legislature for three years. I've been involved in election integrity long before that as an attorney. And we could talk about. I've covered elections for 30 years, Mr. Assaylee. 30 years. You know how many cases of widespread fraud I've covered? One. and it was the Trump administration.

26:59Brian Tyler Cohen:That was Chris Cuomo speaking with U.S. Attorney Bill Assaylee about voter fraud. I'm joined now by Chris Cuomo. Chris, I appreciate you coming on. Can you give a lay of the land right now as far as, you know, this this new resurgence of voter fraud claims that are coming into the zeitgeist? And look, you speak with conservative guests all day. You speak with liberal guests all day as well. Is Donald Trump going to be as effective in perpetuating this idea of voter fraud as he had been in the past? Yes, but the midterms are not going to be about election safety unless he makes it about that with what he does to jeopardize them.

27:35The midterms are going to be about the economic reality in this country. I do not think the many will be distracted from it. That's why your party is smart to focus on that. Now, how you focus on it, we can talk about whenever you want. But in terms of election security, this is largely a boogeyman issue. Okay. Look, do I think California is asking for it? Yeah. Why? Because the longer you take, the more suspicious it is. But here was my problem with Mr. Assaili, or as I'm calling him now, assails me, this guy, because he's coming at me and trying to pretend something that wasn't there. Look, you and I can discuss, hey, look, it looks bad, Brian.

28:16It looks fishy. And the state not wanting to give it the voter rolls in unredacted form exactly the way the federal government. It looks like they don't want transparency. And it looks like this and it looks like that. And that's fine. And you can counter and I can counter back. We're not federal prosecutors doing a federal investigation. A federal investigator is not supposed to assume a crime and go look for proof of it. You're supposed to do the opposite. And the idea that a federal prosecutor is going to look me in the eye on national television and say, well, we don't know that there isn't fraud.

28:49Brian Tyler Cohen:Right. I mean, look, I can say that. You can say that. It's okay to be suspicious. We're not federal prosecutors. And his arguments after that were even more telling. They were all political. Yeah. Well, they let you use a library card, which, by the way, isn't even true contextually, but it doesn't matter. They're not legal arguments. Right. None of them were. And that's what was scary to me. And that's why I got up on the guy. As you know, Brian, I know how to fight. I'm a very skilled debater. I just don't think it moves the needle. I believe in conversating. I believe in giving people their best say.

29:29This guy was asking for it. So he got it.

29:31Brian Tyler Cohen:Well, I mean, this also is kind of, in my opinion, evidence of the fish rotting from the head because Trump was asked the same thing in his interview on NBC with Kristen Welker just the other day. OK, you're going to claim you're going to you're going to make all these claims of voter fraud. But where's the proof of any of it? Where's the proof of any widespread voter fraud that's going to have any impact in this country and he got up and stormed out. And so and so you're seeing that that these people in the administration will make this argument, but but there's nothing behind it. And so it's just kind of a lazy regurgitation of something that worked in the past.

30:06I think he got up and left because it was a woman, maybe a black woman. And I think he's got a real problem with that. Maybe it's generational, maybe it's dispositional. But I got to tell you something. You're right. But the where's your proof is not the right pushback for a journalist okay here's the pushback one if you want to talk about proof that we have of things being done wrong in an election let's look at you sir yeah joe biden didn't put any of your people in jail courts did their own words did They lied for you. They manipulated for you. And they admitted it. You had an agency going around saying that they had all these affidavits that could prove things.

30:54And then in open court, when their law licenses were on the line, their lawyers had to admit that their client didn't have any such information. That's the proof. That's the evidence that we have. And that was the right pushback on him. You are accusing someone else of something in a vacuum that you yourself did. And look, I'm fine with I'm fine with Kristen. This isn't that's not the point. I'm saying that we have a tendency right now, especially on the left, to heroize people who the president simply just doesn't like. To me, I don't like the standard. But when it comes to election security, he's creating a boogeyman.

31:33And the irony is he's the only one who has done what he says is happening. Right, right. Right.

31:38Brian Tyler Cohen:It's the perfect instance of projection, which he traffics in all the time. You know, I think one instance where he's really benefited from all of this is the fact that we live in such a bifurcated media ecosystem. And so he knows that, you know, that while in court, where it actually matters that you tell the truth, his people are going to say one thing, that his supporters and Fox's viewers and Newsmax's viewers and OAN's viewers and Megyn Kelly and Daily Wire and Daily Caller and Alex Jones, those people never get that information. And so you and I could know that these things happened in court.

32:16Brian Tyler Cohen:We could know, for example, that based on discovery in the Dominion Voting Systems case, we have all these text messages from these Fox executives who are basically coming out and saying, we know that these election claims or this election denialism is bullshit. that happens but those people never gain access to that information because the veil is never lifted and they have the much easier lift i mean brian defending our election system in the digital day and age when everything is on our phones yeah and we don't even carry cash anymore makes it look like we're trying to prop up a bad standard and i get it i get that it looks that way voting is a really tricky issue.

32:58My mortgage is online. My money, I don't even know that it exists. You know what I mean? It's just numbers somewhere. But voting, we have to do in person or on paper. And it does feel weird to people. It does feel antiquated. And you are in the position of defending what seems like something that would be easy to be fraudulent in, especially the California system because of all the extensions and allowances that they make in what they say is an argument of inclusivity to increase participation, but it can look shady. And Trump is supposed to be a steward of an institution that he's openly attacking for his own advantage.

33:38Right. Because that's what's unusual

33:39Brian Tyler Cohen:in that vacuum of trust is where autocrats thrive, which is why he's doing it. Yeah. See, we should be blaming him for California's election system. We should be saying to him, Forget the SAVE Act. Why aren't you automating our voting systems? Why are we so in the past when we are so advanced in everything else? We should be pushing him. He should be. But instead, in this crazy, bizarro world we live in, I have to defend the institutions of our democracy against the president's allegations. Yeah, but that's crazy. And that's how it goes. I mean, that is the left-right divide. And that's where Democrats, I think, ate a lot of shit in the last election.

34:16Brian Tyler Cohen:Because when Democrats are stuck in a position of defending institutions, when no one has trust in institutions, and those institutions haven't worked for people, then, and Trump gets to present himself as the outsider railing against, it's easy to complain about something. It's easy to say that something's broken. It's a lot more difficult to claim that something actually works or to offer solutions to make sure that that you know the the government is is properly functioning right this look but i'm just saying again the scary thing to me is and it is scary okay i don't use the word lightly having a federal prosecutor come on in their capacity as a federal prosecutor and say what a salee did yeah is uncharted territory for us i mean it's kind of like jim comey with the letter during the hillary situation, which absolutely devastated her campaign as far as I'm concerned, but on steroids is on steroids.

35:12Absolutely. Because this dude's not even pretending. Right. He's not even pretending.

35:17Brian Tyler Cohen:That's why he's there, Chris. That's why all of these people are they're not in their positions because they're competent. No more than than Pete Hegseth is in his position because he's competent. No more than Todd Blanche is in his position. But remember their basis for being able to do it. Look, again, it is an Alice in Wonderland surreality that we're in where they say, yes, but that's because you weaponized the DOJ first with all the lawfare against Trump. So once you destroyed it, then anything I do can't be that bad. Right. It's just pure retaliation. And who could blame me for wanting to retaliate?

35:57That's right. Look, you created the game, Brian. And I'm just playing it. Right. Right.

36:02Brian Tyler Cohen:You said something that that struck me, which was, OK, this election is going to be about the cost of living, no matter how much maybe Republicans and Trump try to make it about about election theft. And I agree with you. I agree with you that Americans are more concerned about cost of living. But I think what the administration is trying to do is still to undermine the election itself, regardless of what like they don't they know the election is going to be about cost of living and they know that it's going to redound to their disadvantage. But but they're trying to. But this is a this what Trump is doing right now and what Bill is doing right doing are doing right now is evidence of their priority in this election, which is to undermine the legitimacy of elections.

36:41Brian Tyler Cohen:And sure, they're coming out and saying, look at this fraud in California. And that's all well and good as far as rhetoric is concerned. I think that they're using that as a pretext to take legal action or government action to undermine the legitimacy of the election so that an election based on cost of living is actually able to be meddled in on their behalf. And they can pass executive orders like Trump tried to do with his mail-in voting. They can try to shoehorn through laws like the like the Save America Act, even if Congress doesn't pass it. I think what they're doing right now is giving themselves a pretext, giving themselves a justification to be able to take big swings as it relates to actual election security so that people don't get to have their say on cost of living issues.

37:28I don't believe in the four dimensional chess thing. I think Trump is much more about tactics in the moment than he is about strategy. But listen to how crazy this is. So right now you're defending that in California, the system's legit. The institutions are fine. They're doing that. Not that crazy having to defend institutions, but, you know, got to keep it straight. Can't let Trump say that all these things are fake just because he loses.

37:51Bobby LaPin:Right. Now you go to the next level, which is, but what's going to happen is then he's going to meddle with the elections and they're going to say, and then you're going to be in the position of having to say, wait a minute, you cheated. You, you, you, you, wait a minute. I thought the system was great, Brian.

38:07Brian Tyler Cohen:I thought it worked. I get how it sounds. But like we're also in the aftermath of of him having done it already. And so I wouldn't like I get it if I came out in 2019 and said that I think that this could happen. You get a plausible deniability in saying, hey, don't be a conspiracy theorist. That's what Trump does. Leave that. Leave that to him. But we've all lived through the lead up to the 2020 election and his claims of election fraud and the extent that he was willing to go to perpetuate the big lie. And so I don't think in that instance you can blame me for having concern. I'm not blaming you.

38:38I'm just saying that the dynamic is eerily reminiscent of how the MAGA folks felt about the vaccine. Yeah. Or about COVID-19 as just another cold. Or about the lawfare and that everything that Trump is accused of, he never did. Or that, of course, and in the main, that the elections, anyone that he lost was rigged because of somebody somewhere saying something about a bag of ballots. Yeah.

39:05Brian Tyler Cohen:Yeah, I get it. But I think my job and especially as somebody who like my principal issue, everybody falls into their into their, you know, corners of the Internet and focuses on things that that they're particularly passionate about. And and voting rights and election security has become something that I've focused a lot of my attention on. And so I kind of think of it as my as my job to to in a way predict what's going to happen so that so that we're not left flat footed if and when we come upon a situation where, OK, all of a sudden Trump is passing executive orders. All of a sudden he's deploying ICE agents to the polls.

39:43Brian Tyler Cohen:All of a sudden, you know, 18 months ago I was or about a year ago, I was talking about the prospect of the Calais decision coming down. And lo and behold, here we are. And now Republicans have immediately drawn out 12 seats in these upcoming elections just due to gerrymandering. So I think in a way, it's my responsibility to some degree to at least predict and prepare for a lot of the things that are coming down the pike. Oh, I'm with you. It's just hard to be prescient and not paranoid. Yeah. And it's also tricky because you're in a very stilted game where you have a binary battle to the bottom of which side is worse.

40:24And everybody claims misconduct against the other in every situation where they don't win. Look, there's no irony that Trump is saying the California elections are rigged because Republicans aren't doing well, except for Steve Hilton, who says there's no problem with the election system.

40:41Brian Tyler Cohen:Who the Democrats apparently gave a pass to when we were in our big election rigging mode. We're like, but you know what? The biggest, the highest office in the land, let's let that Republican through. Yeah, and what an irony that Steve Hilton says he thinks the election's working fine because he's winning. Yeah. I mean, it's just all so obvious and yet it works. People don't trust. And I got to tell you, raised by one of your true hero, Democrats, as opposed to just, you know, of convenience in the moment, heroizing somebody, as I see happening again and again with people in the media and politics that just get sideways with Trump.

41:24Government is a good thing. Government helps. Okay. It has lots of flaws and ugly marks, just like everything else. Government is a good thing. Nobody's arguing that right now. And that's too bad because the side that thinks that government is worse, the only thing that we know for sure is that I think things may be really broken in a way that is not easy for us to repair. and someone's going to have to argue at some point that government is good, that government can do good things, that we need it. And I know that's not sexy and I know it doesn't feed populist anger, but it's also true.

42:05Brian Tyler Cohen:Chris, because you're on a show that I think reaches a lot more right-wingers than where you used to be at CNN, you're a pretty good barometer of where people stand. And I know that in the lead up to the 2024 election, And, you know, Democrats were in really rough shape. And I think that was reflected in the results of that election. Have you noticed I want to talk like 30 ,000 foot view vibe shift. Have you have you noticed any shift even among the Republicans who you've had on the Republican viewers or the conservative viewers to your show? Where do people kind of I know this is redundant, but but to simplify it, where where where where are the vibes moving right now in terms of the two parties?

42:51the problem is they're in power. You can't be an angry disruptor when you're in power. Yeah. They tried to blame Biden thing. It didn't work. They tried to blame Biden.

43:04Brian Tyler Cohen:I mean, I think what I'm saying, like, we had like cabinet secretaries like this week who've come out and said that stuff is still Biden's fault. But yeah, point taken. You know, while they're talking about the worm, the screw worm. Yeah. And look, that's just meth. OK, did having a more welcoming southern border situation for illegal entrance hurt us? Yes. How? A million ways. But one of them is that, yes, more people who had screw worm got closer to the U.S. border. Did Biden let screw worm in? No, it wasn't here. Why? It's just the reality of the timing. Were more people getting closer because they thought Biden would let them in?

43:47Maybe. Did those people have a higher rate of screw worm? Maybe. Is that why it's in the country now? Maybe. But there are other reasons. Like what? You cut the funding for containment to the USDA. You cut what was keeping it out during Biden. You cut it. That had something to do with it too, but they don't want to own that. So then what do they do? What they do better than you do. Next. And they just shift to something else. We may come back to screw worm, or I may throw it in in some bullshit context, you know, some way going forward where you won't have time to fact check me or you'll have to focus on my new chaotic moment.

44:23But they're very good at this. So what's the vibe shift? They're in power. They got to own it. And they realize now, oh shit, we got to start making this worth owning. Yeah. We got to start finding something here that's worth owning. It ain't going to be Iran, this regime. Man, what are we going to do? Israel, I'm only going to stay away from that. the economy, well, which piece, which part? So they're searching for that right now on the right. The left is not searching as much. You guys know that economic populism and affordability as a buzzword, that's your lane. What I don't like that you guys are doing, I love your lane.

45:04Why? Because it's the interest of the many. I love the lane. I'm not saying I love all your ideas, but I love the lane. What I don't love is that you are convinced I remember when you and Carville were sideways. Now you might as well be his son, which is Trump is a bad guy who has to be called a bad guy everywhere, every moment of every day. He can get no pass anywhere. That's the flex. So that's what you're doing. Are you wrong? No. But is it raising the temperature? Yes. Is that your fault? No, but it's a choice, Brian. and we're going to have more violence. We're going to have more violence.

45:47And I'm not blaming you. I'm not because you didn't start the fire, but you are blowing on it. And I'm not saying you're wrong. People are right to be angry. They're right to be outraged. They have the right. I just don't know that it gets us to a better place. And I know that makes me seem weak and kumbaya. And I'm not, but that is my concern.

46:08Brian Tyler Cohen:That's the pushback I have. And I'm going to I'm going to give you my my perspective on all of this, which is we have had a weak and feckless Democratic Party for as long as I can remember. Like the joke is that we are the party of strongly worded letters. And so I understand that by engaging in the fight and by fighting back, it's only inherently going to increase the temperature because when you fight back, that's all it can do. But the flip side is that when contending with a party that has shown so much utter disdain and contempt for democracy itself, that they're willing to subvert the election results if they're inconvenient to them, we have a duty, an obligation to fight back as hard as we can.

46:53Brian Tyler Cohen:And if the if the consequence of that is that the temperature is raised, so be it. Because because the flip side is if we don't fight back with all that we've got, then we're then we're in my opinion, we don't have democracy after this. Like we we're lucky that the guardrails have held up as tenuous, tenuous, though they may be up to this point right now. And thank God we have some folks in the judiciary who are allowing that to be. But like we're in a precarious spot right now. And and and if you know. But Brian, what does it mean that what you're saying right now is the same thing that Matt Schlapp was saying to me in 2015 about why they needed Trump and how tenuous it all was and how scary it all was and how we were holding on by a threat.

47:38You don't think it's coincidental.

47:40Brian Tyler Cohen:The difference is one of these two parties incited an insurrection because they weren't happy with the election results when their guy objectively lost, even despite 65 claims in the court. Matt Schlapp can't point to anything like that. All they can say is, oh, socialism is right around the corner. And as I've said on your own show, we had eight years of Barack Obama, no socialism. We had eight years of Bill Clinton, no socialism. We had four years of Joe Biden, no socialism. Republicans have been yelling socialism for my entire life. It never comes. So Matt Schlapp can be upset that, you know, the socialists are Marxist communists are descending upon this country and are going to eliminate freedom.

48:17Brian Tyler Cohen:But that's talking points. What I'm pointing to is is verifiable facts of what these people have done when they've been in power and the ways they've tried to undermine our democracy. So we are like, I get that we're both saying the same thing, but I think, you know, having this argument or having this conversation in good faith, we can also say that one of our arguments is rooted in fact and the other is rooted in fear mongering. I think that if the goal is to capture the many. Now, here's the problem with that. That sounds great. You should be trying to capture the many, not the few. Okay. But in an election context, it's all about the few.

49:00You're running these congressional races now. There's a very small percentage of them that are competitive. Why? Because the system is rigged. Full stop. It's rigged culturally in terms of the binary nature of it. The parties control the primary process. They create extreme candidates. I believe you guys both do it because it works better for you and your advantage over the other side. We're in a bad spot. Okay. So in an election context, you're not about the many. You're about the few. And you're about to try to figure out in a very small and a handful of places across the country, how you win enough races to change 30 seats.

49:44Yep. Yeah. And so I don't want the many. I'm not trying to comfort the many. I know. I get it. I get what you want me to do. I get it. I get that. That would be great. It's not my thing. I'm not running a popular election where that's what wins. Even that is an electoral college. Even that comes down to 34 counties in the entire country. So it's not about the many. That's great for a poll, but it's not great for winning elections. And that's where you guys are. And sadly, I think you're making the right call in terms of your strategy. I don't like it because I don't like what it says about the state of play.

50:21But if you want to win a handful of races, you are doing it the right way. Why? That's what worked for them. That's what worked for them, man. Um, and I don't like it, but if the goal is to win the elections, I get why Jimmy changed. And I get why you guys are doing what you're doing. I just don't know where it leaves us.

50:43Brian Tyler Cohen:Chris Nixon. What? Nixon five? Nixon what? Nixon how many? Oh, Nix. I thought you meant like Nixon. No, no, no. I was like, I wish. I wish. I wish we had Richard Nixon. I wish we had Watergate. I wish it was that simple and obvious. I wish there were people in government who would go to their own party member and say, hey, man, this is too much. You got to go. I wish there was still grace like we saw with Gerald Ford and the Democrats who let him pardon Nixon. yeah you know they could have they could have gone after for it for it they didn't that world is behind us i wish we were there i wish we were there so nicks look here's the thing man i love it for new york city i love the metaphor moment of trump's decision to go even though it meant that 6 000 people wouldn't get to enjoy the game yeah i get that they had i love that they had to put a wall around msg it's such a metaphor for the tale of two cities yeah that That was such a great moment for you guys to let people know, look what he's about, man.

51:48He's not about you. Yeah. And in terms of basketball, look, I want the Knicks to win more than I want this pinky. Okay. Yeah. I'm serious. I would absolutely have this cut off tonight for them to win this series. Why? I think it will be so good for New York city. And I think it could be contagious in terms of, oh, it feels good to have a positive thing to be pumped about. Doesn't it? Let's be like them. What do we have that's positive here? We need it so badly, so badly. But I'm telling you something right now. This San Antonio team beat the Oklahoma City Thunder, and they were down 2-0. Now, they didn't lose two at home.

52:28They lost two away. I think the Thunder is a better team than the Knicks, certainly on paper. I love the Knicks. I want them to win. I am in no position to say we still got this. This is going to be easy. Knicks in five. I know people are saying it I don't feel it I hope I'm wrong I don't feel it Last night This team hasn't played great Look, I know basketball Okay, that was my game, right? That's why I wanted to go to college That was my thing The Knicks have played so-so In this series And they've won two out of the three games

53:03Brian Tyler Cohen:Yeah So if they start playing like they can They're going to be fine If they play like this Up and down this team can beat them can beat them four straight yeah well hopefully look hopefully the uh the first lost madison square garden is a kick in the ass the kick in the ass they need so no that was the trump jinx he won't be there he won't be there tomorrow that's it if they the worst thing for trump is if and when the knicks win on wednesday's game because now everybody's going to be like you know what the knicks have not lost while trump was there so uh where where can uh can folks who are watching and listening right now see more from you so here's the cool thing as you have been so helpful to me at news nation um because it's so important that i use their platform to put voices that are great arbiters of the spectrum of who i believe deserves respect within our process i'm not going to have a really articulate like i'm not going to have someone on who's just a fire breather for the fringe of either side i don't think it helps you've been amazing so news nation I'm on every night.

54:07I just started something called Cuomo Crime Time, and I'll tell you why. Crime is like our last good connective tissue in this society right now, where everybody can get on, like this Carmelo Anthony case. Wait, you thought you needed no black jurors because it's a race neutral case, and then they convict a kid of murder one in three hours, and you don't think that this is gonna be a reason for appeal? Crime is a very good barometer of where we are and the struggles that we should be in together for a better system, a more perfect union, as the founders called it. So I got the political podcast that you've been so good on.

54:43And that's why I love coming on with you on yours. And the Cuomo Crime Time. And they're both, you just go on YouTube, you type in my name. They're right there. You subscribe for free. And now I'm doing a serious radio show every morning, their morning show from seven to nine. And it's bananas. The feedback has been nuts. I've never done anything more lightly. Like, I don't care if they fire me tomorrow. Like, you know, I'm up anyway, but I don't need to do a two-hour radio show every day. I've never had feedback like this before. These people are all calling and they're so smart. They call me all morning and they have like real questions.

55:15They stump me all the time. I had a lady this weekend, this morning, beat me up about the California election system. She smacked me around. She was great. So that's where I am. Serious in the morning, the two podcasts, and I'm on News Nation at night.

55:28Brian Tyler Cohen:Awesome. We'll leave it there. Chris, as always, I appreciate your time. BTC, your hair is distractingly gorgeous, but there is a brain under there that people are rightly listening to. And I love being part of your world.

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56:58Brian Tyler Cohen:Sign up and get 10 % off at betterhelp.com slash nolie. That's betterhelp.com slash nolie. I'm joined now by the man running against someone who's been dubbed the most hated Democrat in America. Bill Ferguson is that Democrat. I'm joined now by Bobby LePin running for Maryland's state Senate District 46. That's Baltimore area. Bobby, we have a major update in this race. And for folks who subscribe to my channel, they know that I've interviewed you quite a bit over the last few months. And for good reason, Bill Ferguson is the sole impediment to redistricting happening in your state of Maryland.

57:35Brian Tyler Cohen:So you now have an update here as far as some polling is concerned. Can you share that with us?

57:39Bobby LaPin:I do have it's it's a major update. It's a it's a big it's a big update for working people. But if I can real quick, just to bring people up to speed about how you and I started, if that's OK. Yeah. Um, months ago, I think we talked about redistricting and then I was running against the guy that held up redistricting in Maryland. It failed because of him. And now voting rights have been stripped from this because of the Supreme Court. And Maryland can't add another Democrat to Congress for the next two years because of this one guy. But when we first spoke, I talked about the importance of what a state legislature does, you know, that when reproductive rights were stripped away from women in this country, it wasn't just Roe v.

58:21Bobby LaPin:Wade, but it was state legislators that made it illegal in most states in this country, you know, for a woman to actually have the right to choose. You know, when when trans folks in Kansas were told that they had to out themselves on their driver's license, it wasn't the federal government that it was it was state legislators redistricting wasn't the federal government that did it. It was state legislatures, you know, starting with Texas. You know, the the spread of AI and data centers in this country, it isn't the federal government that's allowing them to be built. It's state legislators that are allowing the zoning.

58:58Bobby LaPin:You know, it's so important for people to realize how important it is to make sure you elect the right Democrats to your state legislature or bad things can happen, you know. And when we started this race, I'm just a working guy. I'm a veteran, you know, a former school teacher and a small business owner. You know, I had a little bit of a social media following, but I love my city, you know. I love my city. And just like every other city in this country, people are hurting. They can't pay their bills. The utility rates are so high. We have ice in our streets. And I'm going against a guy that has$2 million in his campaign account, one of the most powerful politicians, a Democrat in the state of Maryland.

59:40And I just got poll numbers back that we're at 52 and he's at 45. And that speaks volumes about the power that the people have.

59:50Bobby LaPin:So like if everyone everyone feels like they're losing hope or nothing can change and, you know, nothing good can happen. I just want people to use this race as an example in Baltimore when a whole bunch of working class people came together, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of volunteers. And the poll that we just got back last night shows that we're winning this. It's still two weeks to go. The elections on June 23rd. So we still have, you know, miles to walk before we sleep. But but it was it was very hopeful. And I can tell you, if you can't tell on the camera, I am exhausted.

1:00:31Bobby LaPin:Maybe if I'm lucky, three hours of sleep each night, because what it takes to actually make a change in this country is to sacrifice, is to doorknock, is to get your neighbors involved, to convince people that their vote more than ever in the history of our country. Does a single vote count? right now it's the most important time um that's the good news and it's because of people like you also and people like who are watching you know things good things don't happen we don't we can't fight the fascists we can't fight the nazis we can't fight trump we can't fight ice we can't fight corporation uh you know corporations we can't fight corruption unless we stand up together and do it.

1:01:16Bobby LaPin:So everyone just even watching this, watching this and educating yourself. I mean, you're part of the solution. You're part of this America. We're all trying to build a better America for everybody, regardless of what you look like, who you love, who you are, what language you were born into. This country should be for everyone. And everyone that takes a part in it, just even watching your show and what you do is a big part of making that change happen. Sorry, I'm getting real emotional because I'm kind of tired. And I get my feels when I'm tired.

1:01:48Brian Tyler Cohen:That's all good. Well, look, you know, look, I want to take a moment before we get into the next next questions here. And there's a lot to talk about, especially as it relates to redistricting, especially as it relates to utility rates, all of which is really important on a national and local level. I usually save the calls to action for the end of these interviews. But I think it's really, really important right now because you said something that that caught my attention, which is that Bill Ferguson, the Democrat that you're running against, the Democrat that was the sole impediment to passing redistricting in Maryland right now has a war chest of two million dollars.

1:02:19Brian Tyler Cohen:You do not have that kind of money. You are on a, you know, looking for a thousand bucks here and there to keep this thing going. And so I want to take this opportunity for anybody who is focused on electing Democrats who are actually looking at how they can help people in their districts, electing Democrats who understand the urgency of this moment, meaning Democrats who are on top of it at both a state and a local level. Bobby is that person. And this is a great opportunity right now to allow your money, even as you're getting pulled in 100 different directions, to go as far as it possibly can.

1:02:54Brian Tyler Cohen:This is not, you know, the L.A. or the Dallas or the New York media market. And so your money goes far here. But this is a race where your money can have a huge impact in taking out a corporate Democrat who is looking out for himself, who is enriching himself, who is in bed with the very folks who are making sure that utility rates are high in Baltimore, high in Maryland, and replacing them.

1:03:18Bobby LaPin:It means something greater than that, too. This is this progressive way. You know, anyone out there that was a Bernie supporter, like early on, you know, in 2016, anyone in 2019, Bernie Sanders spoke to me just as a working person. And he was the first politician I ever gave money to. I didn't have much, but I believe that he understood me, right? And that dream that we saw fail so many times, that progressive dream, it is no longer a dream. If Zoran has proved it, Zoran is the best one to have proved that that dream is real, that people want a progressive movement. So this isn't just about Maryland.

1:03:57Bobby LaPin:I am facing the only Democrat in the country that held up redistricting in a democratic state. He used his power as the Senate president to kill something that wasn't only important to the people of Maryland, what was important to securing and protecting civil liberties of every single American in this country. So if that guy would win, if that guy would win, it sends a message that everything is OK. that everything that we've had for as long as we've had it, all the status quo is OK, because that's what the people want. And he is spending a lot of money. Yes, he has two million dollars. But beyond that, you have the real estate industry that is dropping mailers for him.

1:04:42Bobby LaPin:Tens of thousands of dollars in a state where it is the most expensive state, one of the most expensive states to live in, Maryland. And realtors are supporting my opponent. It's not to get the cost of living down. We have the American Future Pack. I don't know if you read this, but they're dumping 41, it's sports betting,$41 million. They're dropping in state races all across this country. Sports betting. Your FanDuel, your DraftKings are dumping over$100 ,000 into my opponent's race mailing so I can lose. And let me tell you something, the sports betting folks, they do not have a working person's best interest in mind.

1:05:21Bobby LaPin:They want us to use the very little money that we have to gamble. And why are we gambling? Because too many people don't have hope in this country because the bills are so high. And then you go on and you say, oh, I'm going to bet on this basketball game and maybe I'll win and get a little bit of money that maybe I can pay my bills to just even allow it to happen and to allow all that corporate money to come into this race. It's just incredible. And I am up not just against the Goliath of the establishment and the Goliath of the money that he has, but to the Goliath of all the corporations that want to see me lose.

1:05:53Bobby LaPin:It's not just about Maryland. It's about the country that people are watching. You know, it sends a message. And let me be honest about the 52 to 45 numbers. That's where the six point margin of error. That means I need to mail people at least two more times between now and the election in June 23rd in order to persuade and convince them that I am the guy that they need to vote for. You know, and I want to be honest with you, we are out of money. We have spent every cent that we've had very wisely to get our message out. And I'm afraid that with these last 15 days, he's going to dump hundreds of thousands of dollars into this race.

1:06:28Bobby LaPin:He has attacked my family. He has attacked my service record as a veteran. He's attacked my credentials as a progressive, even though I'm the one who has been leading marches here in Baltimore against ICE. I was the keynote speaker at No Kings 3.0 in Baltimore. He's attacking me as a true progressive. He's trying to find every tactic in the book to push disinformation and lies through any means necessary in order just to break my character down. And Brian, I have spent more than 30 years of my life serving my country, serving my community, just being that helper that everybody needs. I chose to do this because I care, because I have a heart.

1:07:12Bobby LaPin:And in the end of the day, this guy is trying to attack my character with lies just so he can keep his power. So if you want to be part of beating that system, if you want to be a part of keeping this progressive wave flowing through this nation, so working people finally have their voice again, thank you for the pitch, Brian, but I'm asking your folks directly, please chip in what you can as much as you can. Makegoodchange.com. We have literally two weeks until the election. And this is it. This is the sprint. This is when every cent matters. Sorry. I know once again, I'm tired and I got it on my feet.

1:07:47Brian Tyler Cohen:No, I mean, look, it's important. And I think also, hopefully the fact that I've spent so much time having you on this channel and interviewing you, you know, this is a national politics channel. I wish I had the opportunity and the resources and the hours in the day to interview all state legislative candidates. I wish I had the time to interview even all congressional candidates, but I don't. But I care about this race. I care about the campaign that you've run. And you are the only state legislative candidate that I've spoken with this cycle. And I hope that for the folks who are watching and listening right now, that that counts for something and that they can draw a little bit of information from the fact that I've had you on here so much, how important this race actually is.

1:08:30Brian Tyler Cohen:And so I'm going to put a link right here on the screen and also in the post description for those who are looking to donate what they can to support this race. Bobby, with with with.

1:08:38Bobby LaPin:And let me give you a shout out to everyone watches you. The millions of people that watch you at home on YouTube. They're like, here's a guy that gives me news. Here's you. But I want I want people to know. Oh, look at me, teared off because I'm tired. I want people to know the kind of man you are. You know, everyone out there, Brian is the type of man that just randomly would send me a text or give me a call just to check in to see how I'm doing because he knows this working class guy in Baltimore is fighting for his life and fighting for the lives of his neighbors. You know, not because it benefits him at all, but simply because he's a guy that cares.

1:09:12Bobby LaPin:And, you know, I just everybody I just go down in the comments and just say, I love you, Brian, because honestly, if it wasn't for folks like him that have a heart like him, you know, he's not doing it for fame, not doing it for pleasure. he's doing it because it's the right thing to do. And I really, Brian, I really appreciate you. And I'm sure, you know, I'm part of your audience. I'm sure the rest of us know how much we appreciate you. You know, so I do hope that people go in the comments and say, I love you, Brian, because you really deserve all the love, bro.

1:09:38Brian Tyler Cohen:Well, I appreciate that. Look, it's I'm you, your campaign gave me something to believe in. So that's, that's, that's why I'm doing this. Bobby, finally, I want to finish off with this. I want to get real local here. One of the biggest issues that folks in Maryland and Baltimore specifically are contending with is the sky high utility rates. And so can you talk about the difference it would make to have you in the state Senate versus somebody like Bill Ferguson, given the extent to which he is in bed with the very people who are right now screwing over the people that you're seeking to represent?

1:10:13Bobby LaPin:This is the clearest difference between him and I. I don't take a cent of corporate money, right? Bill Ferguson, the Senate president, has taken twenty five thousand dollars every single year from EGE, which is our yield utility provider owned by Exelon. I don't believe I've ever met a single person in this country that doesn't believe corporate money influences politics. I've been fighting against that publicly, and then he's gone out publicly and says, oh no, just because I take corporate campaign donations doesn't mean it influences my vote. I've not met a single person in this country that believes in that.

1:10:47Bobby LaPin:We have a thing that's happening in Maryland. It's called the multi-year rate plan, where our utility provider, you know, BGE, which is, you know, owned by Exelon, can charge the people of Maryland three years in advance for projects they may or may not complete. BGE sold it to our regulators. They sold it to the General Assembly. It's been in place for more than four years. And BGE went from making$130 million dollars a year in profit to 578 million dollars a year in profit. And obviously that profit has shown up in our rates. My wife and I live in an 1100 square foot home and it impacts places like Baltimore more because we have older homes.

1:11:31Bobby LaPin:We've got bad windows, bad insulation. We live in an 1100 square foot home and our BGE bill is nearly$700 every single month. 1 ,100 square foot, me, my wife, and the dog. And it's just crazy. And the whole entire system was set up for BGE to go ahead and make a profit. In Maryland, our utility provider only makes a profit with new projects. It's codified in law that they get 9.5 % profit for new projects. They don't get paid for maintenance. They don't get paid to fix things that are broke. They get paid to do new projects. So allowing the monopoly utility provider to decide what projects are needed, how many projects are needed, and then charge the taxpayers, the rate payers, three years in advance for stuff that might not even be complete is ridiculous.

1:12:23Bobby LaPin:And I would be wrong not to bring up the negative impact that data centers have on this state and that data centers have across the country. The reality is data centers are coming, you know, like trying to stop data centers. It will be like trying to stop the automobile when we went from the transition of the horse and cart. But there's a right way to do things and a wrong way to do things. The original automobiles didn't have proper brakes. They didn't have, you know, taillights. They didn't have headlights. So and we're seeing the same thing with data centers. Like there is a way where they can work off of renewable energy, where they pay their fair share in grid fees, where they pay their fair share in taxes, and where they don't use drinking water by using, you know, a form of gel cooling or something like that.

1:13:12Bobby LaPin:There is a right way and a wrong way to build a data center. But the right way is more costly to the corporations. So we need politicians to have the courage to actually pass the right laws to make sure they're built correctly, that it doesn't impact the life of a human. But unfortunately, if Meta and Google and all those organizations are out there giving large campaign contributions to politicians, how can working people ever get over? How can working people ever fight that? And that's the biggest thing. I think that's the biggest difference with everyone. You know, I used to be a government teacher in high school, and my kids would tell me, they'd say, I would always talk about government and corruption and stuff.

1:13:54Bobby LaPin:And my students would say, well, Mr. Le Pen, if all the politicians are bad, how do you know which one to vote for? And I'm like, just vote for the one that's not in office because they'll probably be a lot better. And that's what we really need. If we want a better democratic party in this country, we need to elect better Democrats. And that starts by electing people who refuse to take corporate PAC money, who refuse to take developer money, because at that point, they only answer to the people, not the corporations.

1:14:24Brian Tyler Cohen:Well, that is exactly the campaign that you've built. So for folks who are looking to help your campaign, where can they go?

1:14:29Bobby LaPin:Campaign website is makegoodchange.com. Makegoodchange.com. Look, folks, I know a lot of people are asking you for money, but this is a race where we've proven that we can win, but we can only win it if we can mail two more times. Mailings are about$15 ,000 a mail, right? And that's at least two more times. You know, if you really want to see a win, and I'm sure Brian will have me back on on June 24th, maybe the day after the election. I'll be really tired that day. We'll let you know how we did. But this is something you're investing in. Not just this campaign, not just me beating Bill. This isn't about Bill versus Bobby, like my opponent versus Bobby.

1:15:11Bobby LaPin:This is about something bigger. This is this movement that we've all been waiting for, where progressive candidates actually can win, where progressive candidates actually move the needle. And if I win, it sends a message to every single corporate Democrat in this state. It sends a message to every corporate Democrat in the country because they know this guy's name being the only one that held up redistricting. That message is that progressiveness is on its way up. And that if you don't toe the line of the people, the people will replace you. Makegoodchange.com is what we're doing.

1:15:43Brian Tyler Cohen:Excellent. We'll leave it there. Bobby, as always, keep kicking ass in this campaign. Keep giving everybody something to believe in. and thanks for taking the time today.

1:15:50Bobby LaPin:Hey, thank you for always giving me the time, Brian. I really, I love you, Brian.

1:15:55Brian Tyler Cohen:Thanks again to Bernie Sanders, Chris Cuomo, and Bobby LePin. That's it for this episode. Talk to you next week. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesley, and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five-star rating and a review. And as always, you can find me at Brian Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels, or you can go to briantylercohen.com to learn more.