Trump screws himself with golf announcement

21:41Jessica Tarlov:So there's the the ones that rise to election integrity where I just have no time for that. Right. Like you've been through 66, what is it? 66 court cases.

21:51Brian Tyler Cohen:Yeah, 65 court cases. Yeah.

21:53Jessica Tarlov:Yes. Mark Elias, we love you. And I don't have time for that. I don't have time for Nancy Pelosi was the one who like sent the National Guard home or like whatever convoluted stuff is going on there. But I can engage with what the Mueller report said and didn't say and how it's been manipulated. I can engage with all of the media hits that went on in the run up to the Mueller report or around releasing Donald Trump's tax returns and, you know, the lies surrounding the meeting at Trump Tower that was about an orphanage or something like that and get to a place where I can at least say. Donald Trump and his relationship with Russia was overhyped.

22:42Jessica Tarlov:I get it. that Bob Mueller, I know what the report said. I know that there were connections. I know that there were people who went to jail. I also know the breathlessness with which the left talked about this and the overwhelming feeling to people that it was like, we're going to get him. And that is a baseline thing in talking to the right that lives in the front of their minds, not just like in the recesses, but in the front of it. Charlottesville. Right. And what Donald Trump did or didn't say about the very fine people, which is the predicate of Joe Biden's campaign. I mean, Joe Biden loved to run for president.

23:27Jessica Tarlov:He was going to do it anyway. But, you know, actually listening to the tape and understanding how muddled Donald Trump's language is, but engaging with the way that they see the world so that you can then show them that you've done the work for that, right? And then you can bring in the reality. So when they come and say the SPLC basically invented the idea that there are neo-Nazis in this country, like that the Tiki Torch guys actually were just, you know, college students wearing Dockers on their way to the bar down the street or whatever it is, makes your argument stronger because they know that you're trying to be a good faith actor in this.

24:08Jessica Tarlov:And I think that that is one of the biggest underlying problems in our politics is that we don't trust that the people that we're talking to or disagreeing with are going to be good faith about it. And I know, and maybe I'll see it in the comments that people will say, like, they don't deserve that. Right. Like, I don't want to give an inch on any of this, but I don't think that you would look at the way that I present my arguments and the way that I work with my co-hosts and communicate with the audience and think that I gave them anything. I just met them at a place where I think we can both exist.

24:51Jessica Tarlov:And then you don't miss each other in the same way. Does that makes sense.

24:56Brian Tyler Cohen:A hundred percent. But but my pushback to that is we are where we are watching the way that this MAGA Republican Party operates. And on down from Donald Trump, there seems to be this mentality of admit no fault ever. Like that is that is the ethos of Trump's movement. And so I guess the disconnect is when you say and I agree with this, that you have to be willing to operate in good faith so that you can be in a position where somebody's even opening to hear open to hearing what you have to say to your persuasion isn't doesn't that butt up against the fact that the other side right now isn't willing to do exactly that like i i there are going to be people who say let's you know that it's that's um uh um reminiscent of Michelle Obama's when when when they go low, we go high.

25:49Brian Tyler Cohen:Do you? And so what would your reaction to that be?

25:52Jessica Tarlov:Well, I think that we've updated from that, generally speaking, everybody understands that this is war. It is nonviolent war, but this is war.

26:03Brian Tyler Cohen:Yeah.

26:03Jessica Tarlov:And my counter to that would be if you actually want to be on the battlefield, you need to be able to get in the arena and you're not going to have entrance into the arena unless you are willing to behave a certain way right i

26:20Brian Tyler Cohen:mean to engage in to engage in some modicum of good faith so that they're even willing to hear

26:24Jessica Tarlov:you right and people sense it you know what like they're seeing these conversations and even if they don't agree with your politics and i hear this from fox viewers out in the wild all the time. It's one of the main reasons that I wrote this book is that I have a flood of people of all political persuasions saying to me, how do you do it? Right. How do you do this? How do you show up day after day and know that you're going to get interrupted and push around and you're still going to sit there and you're going to make sure that you make your points and also find a way to have connective tissue with these people who see the world so differently.

27:10Jessica Tarlov:And we don't lose, you know this, this is why you built Chorus. We don't lose the 2024 election if we engage. We chose not to. I mean, we also had some other problems. We had some policy problems and some outcome problems, but we certainly had a presence problem. And that's what I'm talking about. I mean, it is the it's the content of what you should say. And my alternate title was surviving Thanksgiving. And my appendix is 10 tips for your table. So if you want the quick and dirty, like, how do you talk about ice? I got you abortion, you know, constitutional crisis, all the things. But there's it's really a guide for how to not only build the content of what you want to say, but how to make that safe for people to hear.

28:06Jessica Tarlov:Because hearing information that runs against your long-held beliefs literally throws up your threat reflex. People feel pain from this. And that's something that I think I'm comfortable, you know, going high when they go low about, to understand that somebody who's grown up in a Republican tradition or somebody who even is a new MAGA voter, they are operating with a different set of facts. And so any way that I can find a place to weave in and to set up camp in the recesses of their brain where they say, oh, there's that, you know, that democratic lady with all the facts, who's also nice, and it's part of this cohort, I'm going to take it.

28:52Brian Tyler Cohen:Last question here. And this kind of, you know, look, I think it's not lost on anybody, how smart and how strategic and charming you are and have to be to do the work that you do. And for that, I think everybody watching is obviously very grateful. But just on a personal level for you, like, question is going to sound reductive, but like, how are you? Because you operate in an ecosystem that is so hostile. I mean, even in the rare instances, you know, one or two times a week where I go on CNN and debate somebody or I go on News Nation and debate Katie Pavlich, you know, it is I have to use a different part of my brain and and it and it does it impacts my body in a certain way.

29:36Brian Tyler Cohen:Like you said, I mean, you're putting up a defense mechanism that you're not doing when you're talking to a much friendlier audience. And my audience is friendly to me. But but you're talking to not only an audience that is largely hostile to your worldview, but you're literally physically surrounded by people who are hostile to your worldview. Like I couldn't imagine what it would feel like physically to walk through the halls of Fox. And so just how how how do you do that part of it? And how are you doing just generally health wise, you know, having put yourself in the lines then in the way that you have?

30:13Jessica Tarlov:I mean, like all the elder millennials with two little

30:18Brian Tyler Cohen:kids like i'm a broken woman right nothing some lexabro can't fix i mean for real right i

30:28Jessica Tarlov:i started taking i mean it's a natural sleep aid that you can take when you're pregnant unison like yeah i need that and i'm still up from like three to five yeah rerunning stuff in my mind i mean you do this even if you're having a friendly conversation because the quality of it matters. You know, sometimes you feel like, oh, no, I'm just sitting here behind a computer, like telling everyone what I think or whatever. This is all getting pumped out into the world and has potential to impact real decisions and sway people and all of it.

31:02Brian Tyler Cohen:And follow you for the rest of your life.

31:04Jessica Tarlov:Right. And be part of this. These are communities. And it's very cool and a privilege to be part of them. So I think about all of that. I am broken. I also, this is work for me. And I've been here a long time. I mean, I don't think for people, and it would be much less your audience than maybe, you know, someone who just would use clips of me, you know, takedown clips or whatever it is. But, you know, I've been at Fox 10 years. I know everyone's husbands and wives. I know kids. It is a normal work environment in a lot of ways. And it's a really great place to work. And I have stories and a lot of this is in the book.

31:54Jessica Tarlov:I got promoted to this massive job pregnant, like heavily pregnant. Like my back hurts. I can't sit here any longer pregnant. But a good thing is happening for me professionally. You know, it's just not what a lot of people think that it is. And that doesn't mean that the opinions, because I get that too, like how much your colleagues actually believe these things. Like a lot of it. And that sucks too, right? That means that I have to work harder to open up the mind to the idea that the alternative actually isn't, you know, that you'll never be able to eat meat again and you have to have your kids going to be trans or whatever they might say.

32:41Jessica Tarlov:But it's funny, and I think I mentioned this to you when we saw each other at Crooked Con last year. I'm much newer to liberal environments than I am to conservative ones. Like I've been to more RNCs than DNCs and have, you know, more connections to a Republican media environment than to a Democratic media environment. And so while I am broken, I'm also really OK and I'm good a lot of days. and I think, and that's why I put so much of, you know, how I do what I do in this book for people because I think we can all get better at it and then by extension, we can win more. I mean, the book is about winning.

33:32Jessica Tarlov:Your book's about winning. Like I am the prize now, right? Like we've got the midterms coming up. I'm feeling good about it. Not great, great, great, great, But I want too big to rig in all of the things. And I think that this is really a critical component in all of that. And to not just do the debates. I know it's so popular that TikTok had to create a vertical for it because everyone likes to see this. They want to see the back and forth and the exchange of ideas, but they want to see the takedowns. What I'm engaged in is, like I said, it's a long-term relationship. right and there are days where there are haymakers thrown but there are days where there's just talking about kind of loose light topics and being able to shoot the shit and you should be able to do that with people who have garbage politics yeah i know you might not like to but you should

34:29Brian Tyler Cohen:be able to well look i think it is beyond clear you know first of all the the sacrifice that it takes to be able to do that. And I'm sure 99.9 % of people who are watching and listening right now are perfectly content that they don't have to put themselves in that kind of environment every day. But that just underscores the importance of the work that you do. So I would highly recommend for everybody who's watching and listening right now, if you want to support the work that Jess does on a daily basis, grab a copy of I Disagree, Winning Arguments Without Losing Friends. I'm going to put that link in right here on the screen in the post description of this video and also in the show notes if you're listening on the podcast.

35:07Brian Tyler Cohen:Grab a copy, support her work. She is working day in and day out to persuade voters. And it makes a difference. You know, I know that a lot of people would applaud when Gavin Newsom or Pete Buttigieg went on Fox News or right wing media and talk about how important it is to finally expose that audience to some truth. Nobody does it more than Jessica Tarlov. So again, to show some support for the work that she's doing every single day, grab a copy of that book. I disagree. And Jess, thank you so much for taking the time.

35:38Jessica Tarlov:Yeah, no, it was great to be with you. Thanks.

35:43Brian Tyler Cohen:We just got a bombshell ruling out of Missouri where it is now final that Missouri will be using the six to two congressional map as opposed to the new seven to one congressional map that Republicans were hoping to shoehorn through. I'm joined now by Richard von Glahn, the executive director of People Not Politicians. That is the organization that collected 300 ,000 signatures to put this issue of redrawing the maps on the ballot as opposed to allowing the legislature to just redraw a more Republican favorable map. So given the news today that we just got, Richard, I want to get your reaction first and foremost to the fact that the Secretary of State, Denny Hoskins, was held in contempt because he was so unwilling to abide by not only the Missouri Supreme Court's order, but even the U.S.

36:28Brian Tyler Cohen:Supreme Court order, and just decided that they would continue to barrel ahead and try and use this more favorable seven to one map. Yeah, I mean, Denny Hoskins for months has just been engaged in legal obstruction and delay. He was a participant in a collusive lawsuit to try to illegally force Missourians to vote on an illegal map. And I'm thrilled to see that that issue was put to rest. And the Supreme Court left no doubt that they're tired of his shenanigans. What does this mean moving forward? Obviously, this is a great result for this upcoming 2026 midterm cycle. But I presume, and I presume that this is the same for you, that the fight isn't over as far as these Republicans are concerned.

37:14Yeah, we certainly still have a fight on our hands for November. The referendum is live there. We need to mobilize our communities to vote no on Proposition A and just kill this thing finally once and forever and kill it dead.

37:32Brian Tyler Cohen:What does it say that you were able to gain 300 ,000 signatures on a petition that really only needed 100 ,000? What does it say about the appetite that folks have not to contract all of their autonomy, all of their power over to these power hungry Republicans in the legislature and the state government? Yeah, this is actually September 10th is the one year anniversary of the largest rally held in Missouri history at our state capitol. Over 5000 people came in to tell our legislature no to this DC drawn election rigging. You know, they did it anyway. Within the first 24 hours of our politicians passing this gerrymander, we had over 2000 volunteers all across the state saying, give me a petition, give me a clipboard.

38:21I'm ready to go. I'm ready to fight for my community and fight they did. And I'm glad at this step that we've won and we're going to go finish the job.

38:30Brian Tyler Cohen:You know, this is not exactly a liberal bastion. And so can you speak about your reaction to the fact that this I mean, this took place in Missouri. I think the last time a Democrat was even in power statewide in Missouri, if I'm not mistaken, was the governor back in like in like the early 2010s. Is that correct? You know, Missourians have consistently voted on ballot initiatives that support our neighbors. We have expanded Medicaid. We have raised the minimum wage three times. We have overturned a complete ban on abortion. We've actually banned gerrymandering before. Now, the legislature has overturned some of those things.

39:14And so we're on a constant back and forth. I don't look at Missouri in the red versus blue dynamic. I look at it from the dynamic of politicians in Jeff City who are just power hungry and completely out of touch with the realities of our communities and people joining together and fighting back against that.

39:34Brian Tyler Cohen:You know, you mentioning Jeff City again brings to mind what the Missouri Supreme Court said today, which was warning Denny Hoskins not to even leave Jeff City. And it was ironic that within minutes of of them signaling that they were going to hold Hoskins in contempt and not to leave Jefferson City so that he could be arrested. He issued a statement saying, you know, lo and behold, I'm going to abide by the Missouri Supreme Court's order. than you have the Republican Attorney General of Missouri saying, I'm so glad that that I get to follow in the footsteps of Denny Hoskins and we're going we're going to support his effort to to uphold the law and abide by the Missouri Supreme Court's ruling.

40:15You know, it's I just found it

40:18Brian Tyler Cohen:find it so striking that only when some of these folks are faced with the prospect of personal accountability, do they suddenly remember their allegiance and their adherence to law and the Constitution and their own oath of office. Yeah, that is certainly true. Our unelected Attorney General and Secretary of State have done everything that they can to thwart the will of Missouri voters and the laws of this state. I don't know why we have an Attorney General who is not defending the Constitution of Missouri and the laws of Missouri and is instead doing the bidding of special interest in DC. She never got elected to that office.

41:00So maybe that explains who she's really accountable to, not to the voters. But that's what we have had. But we had a volunteer who made a sign that said, Denny can't veto democracy. And that is true. And the law is the law and the law has won out and the people are going to win out this November.

41:18Brian Tyler Cohen:Was this a surprising result for you given the political, the partisan makeup of the Missouri Supreme Court? If I'm not mistaken, six of the seven state Supreme Court justices were appointed by Republican officials. Is that correct? I think it's five out of seven. But Missouri's got a model nonpartisan court plan. We've actually tried to keep politics out of our judiciary. And that's an important thing to do across the country. You want to have judges who can simply look at things as the law. Sure, they have their perspectives, but at the end of the day, the law is the law. And it's very telling that these were unanimous decisions, a unanimous decision out of the Supreme Court of Missouri.

42:00Today, out of the U.S. Supreme Court, you know, it's on the shadow docket, so we don't know exactly how all the votes came, but there were no dissents in the position today. So I think it's pretty telling how out of bounds our Secretary of State and Attorney General have been. And the law is the law. And that's what won out here.

42:24Brian Tyler Cohen:Have you heard from any voters in Missouri? I mean, obviously, the folks who were collecting signatures all across the country had a ton of face time with the 3000 people who signed these petitions. But is there anything that stood out to you in terms of what these otherwise pretty firmly Republican voters or Republican electorate said as this process was moving forward? Yeah, I mean, I think we had we had people circulating our petition in a, you know, Donald Trump mega T-shirt because he understands that actually, you know, Trump's promises of drain the swamp and do different things that actually this was the exact opposite of that.

43:04These were political insiders trying to enrich themselves, trying to inoculate themselves from any voter accountability. And that's not what the people of the state want. We are facing an affordability crisis. Our farmers are struggling with ridiculous tariff and trade policies. And people want accountability for the failures in D.C. And, you know, the best way that we can do that is by protecting ourselves from this election rigging and voting no on Prop A in November.

43:36Brian Tyler Cohen:Just a little bit of a political question here, but you had mentioned that Missouri has a long history or a proud history of voting against or voting in favor of these ballot measures that would protect themselves. Oftentimes, these ballot measures are positions espoused by Democratic politicians. So the Democratic politicians will lose out on the ballot, but their positions will win out. And Republican officials who oppose those positions will get elected to office. And then we're, you know, the people of Missouri are in a position where they have to constantly make their voices heard via these referendums against the very people who they elected.

44:14Brian Tyler Cohen:Is there some is there beginning to be some understanding that that, you know, the the folks in the Republican Party, these Republican politicians are actually espousing positions that are antithetical to what the voters of Missouri want and that and that there would it would be easier to elect Democratic politicians who actually espouse those positions so that we don't constantly need to defer to these referendums or ballot measures to to, you know, fight back against their very elected officials? I think you are beginning to see that. Just last month, there were two issues, a massive tax cut for the wealthiest that would have raised taxes for most working families in Missouri, and a politician attack on our direct democracy process, our ballot initiative process.

45:01You saw those pushed by the governor, by the secretary of state, by the attorney general. And both of those issues were defeated by over 80 percent of Missouri voters. They each failed in every single county in the state. I mean, they were historic, massive losses. I saw a poll out this morning that showed for the first time Governor Mike Kehoe is underwater. President Trump is underwater in Missouri. Voters are sick and tired of the shenanigans, of the power grabs, of the games. We need to have results delivered to us. And if our elected officials are going to be unable to do that, then they need to face the consequences of that in free and fair elections.

45:46Brian Tyler Cohen:Last time, I want to offer a big congratulations and a thank you for the work that People Not Politicians did in getting this thing over the finish line. But as you mentioned, the work isn't done. So one more call to action for folks who are watching right now in terms of what voters in Missouri can do to protect democracy come November. Yeah, certainly anyone can visit our website, peoplenotpoliticiansmo.org. You can follow us on all the social media channels. You can make a contribution to us and help support our work. And if you're in Missouri, be prepared to vote no on Proposition A. Join us in one of our upcoming canvases and help spread the word.

46:21Brian Tyler Cohen:Awesome. Well, thank you again for the work that you've done. Congratulations on this outcome And looking forward to watching you all land the plane Come November Richard, I appreciate your time Alright, thanks so much Thanks again to Jessica Tarlov and Richard Von Glan That's it for this episode Talk to you on Wednesday You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen Produced by Sam Graber Music by Wellesley And interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera If you want to support the show Please subscribe on your preferred podcast app And leave a 5 star rating and a review And as always, you can find me at Brian Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels, or you can go to Brian Tyler Cohen dot com to learn more.