Trump's vile Ghislaine Maxwell plan comes into clear focus

19:20Gavin Newsom:I'm not even sure. I think that would have to be an additional sports because even gymnastics doesn't have enough just, you know, flips and turns and everything. I look, it's a hell of a thing. And so I look at this guy. You reap what you sow. He created this. He weaponized. He's done it from the birth certificate on down. He plays. He does this little thing with cue, the whole thing, two cue by half. And now he's caught in real people. I mean, I was on a podcast with Sean Ryan, who's, you know, a remarkable person in many ways. incredible supporter of Trump. And he expressed in real terms, how disappointed that, and now he's questioning everything.

20:02Gavin Newsom:And I think this is a real political problem for Trump in a way that prior patches of problems have not been.

20:11Brian Tyler Cohen:Well, you know, you've had the opportunity to speak with a lot of these right-wing influencers. You just mentioned one, you've also spoken to Charlie Kirk. And so you know these guys, and a lot of them spent the campaign staking their support, building up their reputation on this issue. And so as you kind of see them trying to contort themselves to figure out where they're going to go, and we've seen moments where some of them decide that, hey, I'm going to just attach my lips to Trump's ass, and that'll be how it goes. And then you have some others who are actually showing a little bit of spine and speaking out.

20:41Brian Tyler Cohen:And so what's your message to these folks in the right-wing media ecosystem who are figuring out where they want to go right now, whether it's just to follow Trump at all costs, no matter what he says, or to show some independence in light of these new updates.

20:54Gavin Newsom:Well, I mean, people come and go. Reputations can be destroyed in a moment. I mean, just your reputation is the only thing you've got. I mean, the coin of the realm is trust. You've built audiences, you have incredible influence. Trump is not gonna be president forever, even if he gets a third term or tries to manipulate a third term. you know, fate in life. There's an expiration date for all of us. These folks want to continue to build their platforms and they're losing a lot of people. And, you know, you start to lose people on this. They don't trust you on not just Trump. They won't trust these guys continue to have these guys back.

21:30Gavin Newsom:He'll turn his back on all of them. There's not one of them. I mean, he all but said that he laid these guys out. His biggest supporters may have been the difference in the election. and he turned on them. He has zero loyalty. At least be loyal to your followers on your own. You built these unbelievable platforms and people are following you. Have the decency, I think, to have the back of those that are following you. Trump doesn't care about the people following, but those that run these platforms, I hope they consider their audience.

22:03Brian Tyler Cohen:He was also asked whether he was considering pardoning Ghislaine Maxwell. well, this is somebody who is completely depraved, who is an accomplice to a notorious famed pedophile who has since died. And instead of giving the correct answer, which is, no, I would not consider offering a pardon to somebody like this, he said, I have the right. He reasserted his right to be able to do that, sending a pretty clear signal. We also found out from Ghislaine Maxwell's attorney that she is seeking a pardon. So we have Trump who's not ruling it out. We have her attorney who is overtly saying - offense, her attorney.

22:37Gavin Newsom:You know, Trump's a great deal maker. We've had so many candid conversations.

22:41Brian Tyler Cohen:He's doing what he knows is required, right?

22:42Gavin Newsom:This is sick stuff. This is sick. I mean, if you're a conspiracy theorist, I mean, they're going to turn me into one. Why the hell are we even talking to her? Yeah. A pardon for what? No, seriously, for what? Why is your personal attorney now at the DOJ meeting with her personal attorney? For what purpose? What is this about? You said, forget this, move on. I don't even understand what this is about. To pardon her for what? To have your back? To lie for her? I mean, now we're going deeper. Now I'm starting to think, well, maybe it's not just on these files. I mean, maybe this is even deeper. I mean, I'm not kidding.

23:17Gavin Newsom:This is starting, like, even things where I'm like, okay, this guy just didn't want the association, wanted to make this about Democrats or some fancy mutual friends he may have had, didn't want to embarrass them, and there's been pressure there. People have written big checks to him. Maybe they're part of his crypto scams. But when you're meeting with her, with your former personal attorney, and you're literally socializing, which he does, this is what he does. He tests the wall. There he throws something out. Starts to lay the groundwork. Lays the groundwork. He's serious about it. For what?

23:48Gavin Newsom:Why? I mean, so this, where he's on the other side, this guy's, I said this to you a few months ago. And more and more evidence every single day. He's lost a step. This is not the same Trump 1.0. This is something's off, increasingly off. And he's getting he's unmoored in ways even by Trump standards. I haven't seen. I don't want to overstate this moment, but you can't understate this. Something something ain't right, as they say.

24:19Brian Tyler Cohen:And finally, let's finish off with this to that exact point on being unmoored. I suppose you don't think it's especially presidential to go on some spree talking about changing the Washington commander's name. denaturalizing Rosie O'Donnell, getting cane sugar and Coca-Cola, relitigating Hillary's email in the year 2025, and then of course arresting Barack Obama. And so in light of his kind of dissembling that's happening on the public stage, what's your response to what we're seeing from the president?

24:48Gavin Newsom:It reminds me of a punch drunk boxer. He's just wildly flailing. He's flailing. He's just zigging and zagging. He's desperate, he's trying anything. trying to chum the waters and it's not working. And normally it works for him. It's not working right now. I mean, that's why he's off promoting his golf courses in Scotland, get me the hell out of here. The problem is wherever he goes, his reputation, this sort of degenerate nature of who he currently is follows him. And that's why I think this one is gonna have not just some more explaining to do, he's gonna have to do a lot more than he's done in the past to be able to dig his way out of this.

25:27Brian Tyler Cohen:Governor Newsom, appreciate you taking the time. Thanks for dressing up a little nicer than I am. I wore a tie this time for you.

25:34Gavin Newsom:Let's ready.

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27:18I'm joined now by Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett.

27:20Brian Tyler Cohen:Thanks so much for joining me. Absolutely. So the new news today is that the House may not be in session as long as it was supposed to be, because now we have Mike Johnson threatening to recess the House so as not to have to vote on the Epstein files. Is that correct as of right now? I don't know if I would say that that's correct, but you are accurate. I think there's a lot of wrong in what you just said, but you are absolutely accurate. in what is going on in the do-nothing Congress, in the Congress in which they pretend to be about transparency until it's time to be transparent, in the Congress where they pretend to be about the people until it comes down to the votes and the policies to protect the people, and instead they inflict pain.

28:03I mean, this is kind of what this Congress is about, is about hypocrisy at the highest levels, even if it means that they are going to go out of their way to protect the criminality, most likely, of this president and basically waste taxpayer dollars in the process. That sounds about right. Yes, that's tracking.

28:23Brian Tyler Cohen:You said the word transparency, which I think is the right choice of word because Mike Johnson had used that exact word while talking about the Epstein files in the past. He said that we needed transparency as it relates to these files. And so how do you square this now? What excuse could he possibly have to justify by doing whatever he can, bending over backwards, twisting himself into pretzels so that there isn't any vote taken on the Epstein files when he himself is on record saying that we need transparency about this very issue. You're asking me to do the impossible to get into my head. Yeah, because this idea of trying to explain the unexplainable, I just can't.

29:03I mean, this is part of the reason I'm not a Republican, right? Because they are consistently doing the things that really there is no explanation for, including the fact that they are talking out of both sides of their mouths. And you pointed to the speaker. But let's be clear. This president has not been able to wield the level of influence and power that he is wielding without the help of so many minions, including the speaker, but not limited to. Let's not forget this amazing attorney general that we have, who also has been speaking out of both sides of her mouth. So, you know what? There's not very many things that are bipartisan in this Congress.

29:43Ever since the Republicans have had control of the House, there's not been very many things that are bipartisan. But in a very bipartisan way, we are absolutely pushing for the release of these files. And that is why the speaker is having to do cartwheels in order to prevent a number of his members from taking votes that they really can't square with their voters. And he's hoping that the news cycle will blow over over the next month as we are on recess and we can come back and everybody's like Jeffrey Epstein who? Right.

30:19Brian Tyler Cohen:Well, let's talk about recess for a moment then, because Marjorie Taylor Greene had come out earlier and said that she's gotten more calls about the Epstein issue than any other issue. And I believe, if I'm not mistaken, she signed on as a co-sponsor for the Massey-Kana bill that would compel the release of these files. And so to what extent does folks calling congressional offices have an impact on their willingness to actually sign on to this kind of legislation? I don't really know. Interesting example you used. I'll say it that way. I mean, here's the deal. I think that people organized around the big ugly bill and they called and unfortunately their calls fell on deaf ears.

31:01Now, granted, they did know that they were doing wrong. And so that's why you saw immediate like I'm quitting Congress after I take this bad vote. Or you see people like Senator Tillis who says, never mind, I'm just not going to run for reelection. I mean, we are experiencing kind of this kind of thing. But like, does it actually change their actual votes? A lot of times I would say absolutely not. It's not changing their vote. I think that this is really big for those that believe that they have a large MAGA base of support because this is becoming one of those delineation points for MAGA. Not 17 million people losing their health care.

31:40Who cares? Not dropping bombs without any congressional approval. Not making sure that food insecurity is a thing of the past, but the Epstein files. So this is where we are.

31:53Brian Tyler Cohen:Can you give some so the bill that we've been speaking about is this is the discharge petition. It takes a certain amount of time for the for to be able to come up for a vote vote. It's called ripening. This likely wouldn't happen until September. Now that Mike Johnson is going to use this maneuver to deprive to deprive the session of the requisite amount of days that it needs. But in the meantime, can you explain what the oversight committee is doing with regard to compelling the testimony of Ghislaine Maxwell? well. Yeah. So one of our subcommittees, the Government Operations Subcommittee, I don't currently serve on that one anymore, but there actually was a motion to subpoena this woman who is currently serving a sentence, I believe, of 20 years to come and testify before the committee that subpoena was actually prompted by a motion by Tim Burchett is what I understand.

32:46And that motion did go forward. So again, I fully anticipate this was a bipartisan effort by those that serve on the subcommittee for government operations. And so there is, they are supposed to move forward with the subpoena. Now, what that looks like, I don't know, right? As someone who has practiced criminal defense, trying to get someone out of custody, you know, and obviously we need to consult with her lawyer. I don't know if she still has things that are pending some way, somehow on appeal that would potentially impact the level of truthfulness that we would get out of this. So definitely a lot of questions to be answered.

33:31But it is interesting that the committee itself, the subcommittee on oversight decided to do this. And I think that I would trust this process more than I would trust the Department of Justice kind of deciding that they're going to interview her and then ultimately potentially sanitizing the information that we get or potentially engaging in some type of threats or potentially offering a pardon if certain things were said, right, or not said, you know. So we obviously don't have pardons to offer. And if for some reason there is testimony that takes place, it would take place and both sides would be able to participate.

34:16So ultimately, I actually have to say I would applaud Tim Burchett for attempting to get this done prior to the Department of Justice engaging in this type of conversation because I don't know what may happen to that witness if if the administration gets to her first.

34:37Brian Tyler Cohen:I think that's the perfect point here, because it was released this morning that Todd Blanche, who is Trump's personal criminal defense attorney, who now has a job in the White House as deputy attorney general, reached out to Ghislaine Maxwell. And if the administration wanted transparency here, isn't it true that they could just release the tranche of files that they already have at their disposal? And so when we hear, for example, that they're going to go to unseal grand jury testimony, knowing that that's like a fraction, it's like five or 10 percent of what's contained already within the files.

35:09Brian Tyler Cohen:It's clear that they're just doing this as a distraction method or a delay method. And then when they go after when they propose to Ghislaine Maxwell that they want to have a conversation with her. Well, again, all of the pertinent information, all of the relevant information as it relates to Glenn Maxwell is already available in the files, which leads me to believe that if you're doing anything with Glenn Maxwell, you're not going to find out any new information because that investigation has already occurred. She's already been convicted. She's serving a 20 year sentence in prison. So at this point, are we crazy to think that that the options that would be available to them are OK, if you have further information or if you have information that may very well incriminate?

35:43Brian Tyler Cohen:Oh, I don't know. Donald Trump, for instance. We have a vested interest in keeping you quiet. And so here's what we could potentially offer you. Yeah, it is sad to think that this is the type of thought process that we go through with our federal government here in the United States. But they have shown time and time again that they are crooked, that they are crooks, and they absolutely are not above any level of criminality. And so it's honestly what we should expect. We should expect them to do criminal things. This is somebody who was a con man and a convict. And so unfortunately, we have seen him misuse, you know, things such as pardons, where it looks like there's a bit of pay for play.

36:27And so I absolutely fully anticipate that he may most likely offer her a get out of jail free card if she just fails to disclose certain things or if she decides to say certain other things. Right. But I do think that considering the fact that she probably is the only person who was really intimately engaged with all levels of kind of or the vast majority of criminality with Epstein, she is the person that can discredit or credit any information. And going back to this issue about the grand jury, it is a game that he's playing. He is playing on the fact that as a trained lawyer, I know that grand jury proceedings are supposed to be secret, even after the convictions, if there's conviction, even with no convictions.

37:26It is the paramount part of our judicial system is the secrecy that exists within the grand jury process. So absolutely, I think what he's trying to do is he's trying to play both sides right now by saying, hey, we are going to make sure that we push for the judge to release the grand jury proceeding so that people ultimately will most likely get mad at the judge when the judge just kind of follows the law and potentially does not release that information. And then he says, my hands are tied. I tried when the reality is that you didn't try. In fact, the only thing you tried to do was obstruct, which is why they are going to let us out early is because clearly Mike Johnson has been given the heads up that he needs to obstruct any any official anything from happening as it relates to the Epstein files.

38:20Brian Tyler Cohen:You know, on the issue of obstruction and distraction, we have seen Trump throw everything at the wall. He's threatened to denaturalize Rosie O'Donnell, talked about cane sugar in Coca-Cola, threatened to revoke the stadium of the Washington commanders if they don't change their name back to the Washington Redskins. Redskins. He's talked about arresting Barack Obama, relitigating Hillary Clinton's emails in the year of our Lord, 2025. And so this morning he really dove in to the Obama stuff, again, calling for him and a bunch of other officials, Comey, Brennan, to be arrested. And so what do you make of the fact that he is desperately trying to distract everybody by pointing instead to Obama to the point where Obama's office had to release a statement saying that, you know, the allegations are obviously completely baseless?

39:11You know what? I think that we're actually doing good this time. He is the king of distractions, right? And so he has tried everything. And his base is not letting up. And that's great. because they tend to be easily distracted. But on this thing, for whatever reason, it has become just like that sore spot for him and they won't get off of it. I mean, he directly told them to stop talking about it. He directly told them like via his own social media, like shut up about it. Right. And then he decided that he wanted to insult his followers who decided not to let it go. Right. So it only looks like he's even more guilty.

39:57And here's the deal. Guilty of what? I don't know. Obviously, there's all kinds of allegations out there. But at the same time, I'm like, you still became the nominee and the president of the United States, even though you had been found liable for sexual abuse. seemingly people did not care, at least your supporters. I mean, even though there was that Access Hollywood tape where you talked about being sexually abusive towards women, they still loved you, even though there were allegations as it relates to the Miss America pageants that you participated in as well. And they still supported you.

40:32So like, even though E. Jean Carroll ended up with a significant amount of money that is owed to her because of your sexual abuse proclivities i mean is it a far cry that he somehow did something wrong with his bestie okay because like we got a gazillion pictures of the two of them right like is it a far cry no but like is it going to change anything probably not so like just release it like you go around and you pretend Like you're a gangster. You always want to talk about Al Capone and all these other people and whatever. Right. And how you're treated that way. So like do what you do.

41:10Brian Tyler Cohen:I think what's most striking there is if if it's already out in the open that Donald Trump is an adjudicated, you know, sexual abuser, there are, you know, dozens of women who've come forward saying that they that he's harassed them. There's the Access Hollywood tape where he's admitted on camera, although unwittingly that that he is sexually abusive and a predator. You have all of these different allegations that show exactly who Trump is. So so this would be nothing different. and yet what must be in those files for somebody who the whole world already knows all of his baggage as it relates to sexual abuse and being a predator and harassing women?

41:48Brian Tyler Cohen:What must be in those files that that guy with all this dirty laundry already aired out can't let us see it? I think that's the most striking part of all of this. And let's finish off with this finally. What would your message be, you know, to independents or Republicans out there for whom this is a real issue and they're staking their support for this administration on as they kind of see this thing unravel. I think that this is bigger than the Epstein case itself. I think you have to look at a couple of things. You have to look at the fact that this Department of Justice doesn't seemingly work for the American people, that this Department of Justice has become his personal henchman, right?

42:28Like that is and should be scary. And that is something that was talked about in Project 2025. It talks about this consolidation of power, but it also talks about this lack of independence within the judiciary as well as the Department of Justice. And that's what we're seeing. So we should really be concerned about that. I mean, you talk about what he combined his kind of rhetoric around this week with was threatening a former president, Barack Obama, who absolutely definitely did not have the level of scandals when it came to his morality within his marriage that this one has had. So, I mean, if there's anybody that probably is clean and anybody that's probably dirty, I think we know which is which.

43:11Right. But everyone should be concerned about the Department of Justice being used in this way. I mean, this also comes on the heels of this Department of Justice only recommending one day time served in prison for someone who had been found guilty of a crime on the federal level as it relates to violating the civil rights of Breonna Taylor. Right. And then they were like, oh, give them one day time served. Like, we have to be concerned about this Department of Justice, the Department of Justice that will go out and decide that they would try to and would indict sitting members of Congress. Right.

43:46this Department of Justice that does not see the physical altercation that took place with a sitting senator and decide to go out and prosecute that. This Department of Justice that got rid of the Civil Rights Division while at the same time deciding that Ashley Babbitt, who was in the process of committing a series, a litany of crimes, that her family should somehow get then$5 million. Like we have to be concerned about the level of corruption and the level of violations of ethics that exists within this Department of Justice. We then also have to be concerned about if they are being this secretive on something that is very public, trying to pretend as if this Epstein thing is just like a whole hoax.

44:28When someone is literally sitting in prison, when we know that he had actually been charged and that he had additional charges that he was facing and then to act like, oh, nope, nothing's here. We have to be concerned about, you know, what type of transparency are we getting in other parts of this federal government? Like when we have bombs that are dropped and then we have no real conversations around that. Right. Like or when you make deals to get foreign planes in violation of the Constitution, like what all is up with that? Or when your family is making deals for new resorts with foreign governments like what.

45:02So you have to wonder, like, well, what else are you not being transparent about and what types of vulnerabilities exist within our government because of like how dirty you are. Right. Right. So I think that we should look at the totality of this situation and be concerned about the Department of Justice and the fact that they don't know what justice is, as well as we should be concerned about the level of transparency or lack thereof, as well as finally a lack of a moral compass within this federal government. That is really a big deal because when it comes down to policy, you should have policy that is orchestrated, is born of this idea of doing right.

45:49And everything that we've seen from this administration is that they only know how to do wrong. And this is just another kind of layer to that, because if he is in these files, if he did participate in any of the trafficking of little girls, if this is the type of person that is serving and sitting in the White House, then what do you think he's going to do when it comes to policies for people or children or elders when this is the moral compass that he operates under? Right.

46:20Brian Tyler Cohen:And he and his Republican conference already put that on full display when they decided that, you know, after running a campaign predicated on America first, that in fact they would strip health care away from, you know, millions upon millions of people, strip food assistance away to the tune of$300 billion, take jobs away from veterans, cut energy jobs away from Americans, all to basically dump money into ICE enforcement that will, by the way, you know, tear families apart at the hands of the pro-family party. and hurt our economy in the meantime. So all of those things, I think, in aggregate are exactly right.

46:55Brian Tyler Cohen:Well, Congresswoman, thank you for the fight that you're bringing to this administration on oversight and for taking the time today. Absolutely. Good to see you.

47:06Brian Tyler Cohen:I'm joined now by Congresswoman Summer Lee. Thanks so much for taking the time. Yeah, thanks for having me. So you made some big news today in a subcommittee of the Oversight Committee as it relates to the Epstein file. Can you explain what happened to that committee hearing? Yeah. So it was a committee hearing that was explicitly about child sex trafficking. So we wanted to actually get to the bottom of this. It was a lot of back and forth to even get that vote. I think that, as we know, we didn't have to do this, but we really thought that this subcommittee was not just appropriate, but we thought it was going to be the most opportune moment to actually do that.

47:41We knew that there were members on the other side who also were interested publicly in making sure that there was transparency and making sure the Epstein files got back. So at the end of the day, we ended up with an 8-2 vote to subpoena those files. And now we've been told that Comer himself has said that the votes happen and he's expected to do it.

47:59Brian Tyler Cohen:What was the sense among your Republican colleagues? Because this wasn't the first time within a committee or a subcommittee that Republicans have been faced with the prospect of voting for the Epstein files. It was brought up twice in the Rules Committee. Both of those efforts were voted down. And so can you talk a little bit about the pressure that these Republican lawmakers were in that ultimately led them to cave on this particular subcommittee? Yeah, I mean, you know, I want to say it's a base. This is truly a base issue for them. But it's really just Americans across the country. You know, Democrats, Republicans, independents, all districts are calling for this level of transparency.

48:35Right. This is the thing that, you know, I think is really unifying Americans right now. And not to diminish other things that are happening, but we've seen the amount of pressure that our constituents, that their constituents especially, have been putting on them. I'll say, though, there's different makeup in every committee. Right. So I can't speak to the Rules Committee. You know, I can't speak to what's happened in those particular committees, whether or not the particular Republicans that were on this committee with us were there or not. but that was a missed opportunity. And I think that, you know, that opportunity in the rules committee, it should have been done.

49:10It should have happened there. They were called out and they were proven to be hypocrites in that moment. So this was the moment for them to put their money where their mouth was.

49:19Brian Tyler Cohen:Okay, and now moving forward, what are next steps, I guess, procedurally speaking? I know that you had mentioned that James Comer, that this vote is binding here as far as James Comer is concerned. So what happens next? Yeah, so what we saw even just this week in another one of the subcommittee hearings, they actually subpoenaed Jelaine Maxwell. Comer moved within 24 hours to verify that and to send that to the DOJ, right? So we're expecting the same speed that he did it here, that he honors that. But it is a mandate, right? This was a binding subpoena that we issued today. So it will go to them.

50:01And what we expect then, as the language of the motion said, is that this would then be released to the minority and majority members of the federal law enforcement subcommittee. So we'll wait that. Obviously, we're going to be out of session for a few weeks. But as we come back, we expect that that will come before us.

50:21Brian Tyler Cohen:and to what degree are you are you certain that the files that you receive are going to be i know there's been a lot of talk about okay we're gonna we're gonna discuss what pertinent files we can release obviously pertinent is in the eyes of the beholder here and if the arbiter of this stuff is is pam bondy who we now know thanks to this new wall street journal story um has more information than she'd been letting on that Trump himself was in these files. Obviously, what's pertinent to her is going to be a lot different from what's pertinent to everybody else. And so are you confident that the files that are released are going to be the full files as opposed to just what she deems appropriate?

51:00So listen, you can never be confident that people who are prone to corruption won't do corrupt things, right? But what I will say is that in our motion, we accounted for that, right? We requested very specifically the unredacted, full, complete files. In fact, Nancy Mace actually tried to amend the motion. And what her amendment was trying to do was add a word credible to it, right? So she wanted to add within the words that we had already meticulously chosen. She attempted to add just one word credible. Higgins also really hard to, He was like, look, it's one word. Why are you all worried about one word?

51:42But we're like, well, legally, who decides what is credible? Whose standards are we going to implement here? Ultimately, that amendment failed. So as of right now, based on our subpoena, it should be the full, unredacted, foul, complete. There is no subjectivity. There is no, well, this is the part that I would like or this is the part that I think might be credible. credible or the part that I think might be pertinent. None of that. We asked for that. We requested it as a mandate to get the full complete ones.

52:15Brian Tyler Cohen:This this vote happened around the same time that the Wall Street Journal story broke. Is there a sense? I'm curious among among Democrats, but also among Republicans in the Republican conference. Is there a sense that the dam is breaking here? It really feels that way. You know, over the last days when we found out that this subcommittee was meeting, convening and particularly on the topic that we were meeting around, we plan to do this then. So I didn't know that that was happening, but it does feel like not just a consistent drumbeat, right? But it's getting favored that he's on this list. I think that we can all say that we all knew that also, but that he has been alerted, right?

52:52That he's been on the list, right? All these leaks, these slow leaks, and then now our ability to actually access the fouls, I think is the damn breaking. Because I actually think that the real damn breaking are American people, right? This is one thing. Listen, we are in an attention economy. You know, every week something is happening that one ups the thing that happened last week. I mean, let's be honest. Right. We've seen, you know, members of legislatures be assassinated. We've seen the president, you know, have an assassination attempt. We've seen, you know, so much that's happened. And then, you know, add to that just like the reconciliation bill, the cuts of Medicaid, the tax cuts, you know, all of the executive orders that have been coming down.

53:37The fact that the American people have not been distracted by this one, all of the news that's becoming, every distraction that they've attempted to throw out, all it's done is made the American people more resolved for this level of transparency. It's made them more concerned that there's something that must be hidden. They must be covering up something that they're going to do. Go to these lengths to release. So it's actually, I think, the Americans that broke the dam there. It was their persistence. It was them, you know, their base consistently taking to social media, calling letters, lobbying, right?

54:12That was that was the downbreaking.

54:15Brian Tyler Cohen:I think that's such a good point. I mean, this is an issue that, yes, Trump is polling underwater on immigration, on on the economy, on his tariffs and trade war. But those things pale in comparison. He's he's underwater negative 37 points on Epstein. And that's largely owed to the fact that he himself got into office on the back of this story. And he surrounded himself with people in his cabinet who staked their reputations on this story on not allowing the government to complete to continue covering up the heinous crimes of people who feel that they are completely immune to prosecution and and unaccountable.

54:53Brian Tyler Cohen:And now they're doing the very thing that they claim to be railing against when you have Pam Bondi and Cash Patel and Dan Bongino hiding, secreting from the American people this idea that Trump is not in the Epstein files. If a president in the Democratic Party was in the same place as Republicans, do you think they really would want to hide this information? Or do you think that this is something that they would want to get out to the American people? And finally, let's finish off with this. I mean, it gets right to it, right? This is the corruption story, right? That nobody is supposed to be above the law.

55:24That, you know, to take these, when average Joes, right, if an average person did something like this, right, you wouldn't see, you know, all of the protections of the law. But that's why people don't trust this institution, is why they don't trust our government, right? There's always just this idea that there is some, you know, secret club where they get secret protections and they have secret laws that only they have to abide by. And there's other ones that the rest of us have to abide by. This is the one where people are really putting those, like that puzzle piece together, right? Why should a president or a prince or anyone else be protected in ways that working class people never will be.

56:06Brian Tyler Cohen:And finally, let's finish off with this. And this is I think we were kind of leading toward this anyway. But what would your message to voters out there be who predicated their vote, their support for Trump on this idea that he would, you know, expose this criminality and end this this corruption that happens at the hands of people who, again, view themselves as completely unaccountable. What's your message to those people in light of what we've found out now? Trump has repeatedly peddled conspiracy theories, lies. He has been blatantly corrupt. This is the moment where he lied directly to you.

56:44He lied directly to you. He said that he would release these files. He said that this was a top issue. They have all intimated that holding child sex traffickers, child sexual abusers accountable. But when the rubber met the road, they would not do it. When they were afraid that there would be accountability for themselves, they went to hide it. So we have we have a responsibility. If you lie about this, what else are they lying about? I think that those of us who, of course, maybe not on that side recognize more of the lies. But for those who may be realizing this, right, he's not that this is not the fake Donald Trump.

57:19This is the real one. Right. This is the one that does this consistently relies without a second thought. Right. So we have to hold not we have to not just hold him accountable, but we have to believe that about him.

57:30Brian Tyler Cohen:Well, Congresswoman, I appreciate the fight that you brought to this to this issue today and not letting it fall by the wayside, even despite the fact that Republicans are trying to throw everything at the wall to get us not to pay attention to the Epstein files from cane sugar and Coca-Cola all the way up to arresting Barack Obama and even relitigating Hillary's emails right now in 2025. So again, thank you for fighting in the Oversight Committee as you have. Congratulations on getting this motion passed. And I appreciate your time today. Thank you so much. I appreciate yours. I'm joined now by Beto O 'Rourke.

58:07Brian Tyler Cohen:Thanks so much for taking the time. Thanks for having me. So Beto, right now we are watching as the Texas legislature has been called into session by Greg Abbott to push forward this further gerrymander that was ordered by Donald Trump. And I want to get into that in just a moment. But first, we obviously have some major breaking news handed down by The Wall Street Journal that shows that Donald Trump was was informed back in May that by his own Department of Justice that he was named in the Epstein file. So first and foremost, can I have your reaction to the fact that for months we've been engaged in this, I guess, I guess, blatant cover up by administration officials and law enforcement officials to train our attention on Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, all while knowing that Trump himself was in the files that he's trying to hide.

58:52I think this is what everyone and I don't mean every Democrat, but but every American long suspected that Trump, who is a longtime friend of Jeffrey Epstein, Trump, who we learned from The Wall Street Journal as well just a few days ago, apparently sent Epstein a body birthday letter where he he alludes to a secret that they have together. something, of course, that Trump denies in unusual fashion is trying to sue and intimidate and bully the Wall Street Journal to get them to retract this. But now we've learned why all this is going on. It's because he is named in the Epstein files that he and his administration refused to release to the American people.

59:37And you've seen this polling as well as I have, Brian. I mean, it's not Democrats. It's 90 percent of America. 90 percent like what does 90 percent of America even agree on anymore? 90 percent of America wants to see the full files released. That is what Trump is up against right now. And let's see what happens. You saw that Speaker Mike Johnson, you know, sent everybody back home until September from the House of Representatives, not able to do any work for anybody to make anyone's life better because they're afraid of taking votes on this. let's see if this doesn't go away over the course of the next month and a half and in fact just builds and grows as drip by drip new facts new information come out and and of all the places for us to find this the wall street journal owned by rupert murdoch and his family which arguably have helped to prop up donald trump in in the past this isn't from the new york times right Isn't Brian Tyler Cohen breaking news?

1:00:39Although I wish you had broken it first. This is the Wall Street Journal. This is one of the most reputable papers of record still left in the country. So pretty damning stuff.

1:00:50Brian Tyler Cohen:Can I have your reaction to the fact that so many of the people Trump surrounded himself with in this administration, I'm talking about Dan Bongino, Kash Patel, these people who had staked their reputations on this idea that they have to get into the government because the government as it existed was filled with people who are just looking to protect the deep state. Right. Protect people who who are are covered by this second tier of justice where they can commit heinous crimes and nothing ever happens to them. And then they get into these positions where they can substantiate their own claims.

1:01:22Brian Tyler Cohen:And when they find out that their own boss, the president of the United States, pretty newsworthy person to be in those files, when they find out that he's named in those files, they don't tell a soul. And it's been a couple of months now. And so what do you say to those people out there who trust folks like Dan Bongino, who trust folks like Kash Patel when they said that they would go in and expose these deep state actors? And instead, it seems like they've just turned into exactly what they've railed against. You know, I don't know these guys well and I haven't really followed them in the past.

1:01:52I know them more by reputation than anything. But when I see them on TV in the midst of this exploding scandal, they look really uncomfortable. And the thing that Trump and Trump world have always tried to master is this confidence game of whatever lie they're peddling, whatever conspiracy theory they want us to follow them into. They always speak with confidence and it's the tone of their voice. It's their body language. It's the assertiveness and certainty with which they pronounce every fucking word, every sentence. They don't look like that anymore. There is something completely changed in their body language, in the tone and tenor of their speech.

1:02:37This con that they have been running for so long, that they have been perpetuating, thinking that it would never, ever come back and get them, has finally begun to bite them on the ass. And they just don't know what to do with it, especially as drip by drip, we learn that Trump is more and more implicated with Epstein. And you're right. It's this perverse irony that these are the very people who inflated this conspiracy scandal to begin with, used it in part to purchase the power that they now wield over this country. And wouldn't it be some pretty fitting cosmic poetic justice for that very same con to spell the end of their term?

1:03:20But I want to warn everybody about this. And I know you don't need this warning, but but maybe some of us out there do. You know, there's there are some who would take some satisfaction in this or even assume that this might spell the end of Trump's hold on his base or his political power going into 2026. this guy is cornered he understands that this stuff is coming out hence him lashing out at president obama accusing him of treason the punishment of uh for which is the death penalty i'm talking about taking his political enemies into jail and unleashing the full force and weight of federal law enforcement upon them this is just the beginning this is just the first you know week after this thing really starts to break loose.

1:04:08Imagine as the furor and the anger from his own base grows and the lengths to which he will go to try to distract people or to try to hold on to power that he would otherwise lose. That also helps to explain why Donald Trump ordered the governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, and the Republican majority in the state house to literally, I mean, he said this out loud, find me five Republican seats. I think these seats were drawn unconstitutionally. I think that they are gerrymandered. I think that folks aren't getting the representation they need. He's just being completely clear, saying the quiet part out loud.

1:04:46I'm going to lose this fucking election. I will have a check on my power in the House of Representatives if I cannot maintain the slim majority. And the only way we can get it done is Texas. So get me those five seats. And as you pointed out in your opening, that process in Texas just began this week on Monday, the House gaveling in for a special session where the primary goal is to find Trump these five seats.

1:05:13Brian Tyler Cohen:OK, so let's dig into that point right now. What what is the what is the mood on the ground, both from the Democrats and Republicans? Because remember, there there is still the risk that that by stretching themselves so thin to try and get so many seats, to try and grab these five extra seats that Trump issues his clarion call for, that now they're in much more competitive districts than they were before. And if we have a wave year like 2026 right now looks like it's promising to be, then all of a sudden, you know, these current Texas legislators, members of Congress may very well be out of a job.

1:05:48Man, you nailed it. When you ask about the mood, You see even in the comments in the press from Republican members of Congress from Texas, they're very sheepish. They're not really even willing to answer questions. They don't want to talk about redistricting and gerrymandering and members of Congress choosing their own voters, not just because people find gerrymandering distasteful, but you just nailed it. It's because they realize they're going to sacrifice potentially their own seats in Congress in order to pick up these other five seats. What do I mean by that? when they gerrymander, if they're successful in doing this, in order to make these Democrat-led seats more competitive for Republicans, they're going to have to move Republican voters out of so-called safe Republican districts into these Democrat-represented districts.

1:06:36That's going to jeopardize their hold on power and what they were going to reliably be reelected into. And we might also be able to pick up these districts that are gerrymandered because, as we saw in Trump's first midterm in 2018, this guy is deeply unpopular once America wakes up to what he's doing. On immigration, arguably his most successful policy issue, he is polling at 35 percent. The big, beautiful bill, his handling of the economy also in the tank. On Jeffrey Epstein, as we just talked about earlier, I mean, it is a complete washout. And so these Republicans have to run on the MAGA movement on Donald Trump.

1:07:16So try as they might in gerrymandering. And look, we shouldn't take it lightly. It's going to make our odds a little bit tougher on our side. They may also be setting themselves up for an epic failure where it's not five seats they pick up, potentially eight or nine or 10 seats that they lose if it is a total blowout. But beyond that, beyond Democrats feeling electric right now and energized and, yes, pissed off and angry, but channeling that anger into action and registering voters and recruiting candidates that are going to be competitive in these districts, there are more cards that we can play.

1:07:52You mentioned Gavin Newsom earlier. Governor of California has threatened to redistrict to Democrats' advantage in that state. I think he should do it. I don't think he should wait for Texas to go first. I think we should be bold. I think we should be on the offense. And then we also have the option of Texas Democrats in the state legislature leaving the state to break quorum, to deny the Republican colleagues the ability to move forward on these maps. It's a tough thing to ask them to do. They're leaving their families, their careers. They face arrests from state troopers in Texas. And as we can imagine in Donald Trump's America, you know, you can see the FBI or DHS agents or the federal bureaucracy doing everything they can to hunt them down.

1:08:35But if they do this, I think it's going to be inspiring to the country. You were an absolute hero when they tried to do this in 2021 to stop Greg Abbott from rewriting our election laws to disenfranchise more Texans. They lasted for a pretty long time that time. I think this time, given the stakes, you know, we might very well lose the Republic if we don't gain the House of Representatives. I think everyone's going to have their back in this. So, you know, look, it's a tough situation, but I feel more optimistic given the fight that I'm seeing from Democrats across the board in Texas and in California, for that matter.

1:09:12Brian Tyler Cohen:And let's finish off with this. And you had alluded to this a little bit with California and going on the offense there, there are other states that could potentially be weapons in a redistricting fight. And that is Illinois, that's New York, Maryland. And so do you, what would you suggest for these governors? Because so often it feels like, and I know that we've spoken about this too, so often feels like Democrats, if we're going to do anything, which is by no means a sure thing, at most, it'll be okay, some tepid response to a major assaults by Republicans. So Republicans gerrymandered the shit out of Ohio, North Carolina, Texas, Florida this cycle.

1:09:52Brian Tyler Cohen:And we're like, OK, well, maybe we can squeeze a few seats out of California. But we do have other weapons. And so would you recommend that all of these governors basically say, OK, you know what? Like, here's what's going to happen. If there's any more gerrymandering moving forward in advance of that happening, let's just go ahead and use every weapon we have at our disposal and let them know that if they want to engage in this cycle, this is what it's going to look like. Absolutely. You know, I would liken it to a basketball game where the refs have stopped making calls. And so the other side's just punching us in the face, you know, kicking us in the nuts, doing everything they want to do without any consequence or accountability at all.

1:10:31And Democrats have been like, hey, where are the refs? This isn't right. The rules say that you can't do this. Why isn't somebody enforcing the rules? Or they're looking at the crowd who's watching the game and trying to garner their sympathy. Democrats need to punch back. And Democrats don't need to wait for the next punch. I would punch first if I were in one of those positions of power to do so right now, because we know where this is going. Trump is ruthless. He will use violence if he has to, which he tried to incite in 2021 on January 6th. He will tear up the Constitution right in front of our faces.

1:11:04He will break the law. He's doing all this stuff right now in broad daylight. And if we're going to be bound by the rulebook or coloring within the lines or just, you know, left to complain and whine and bitch and moan. You know, what is that going to look like down the road after we're no longer a democracy, after we no longer have a constitution, when Trump is two years into his third term in office? There will be some explaining to do. So I think our message has to be to those Democratic governors, we love you. We want to use every lever at your disposal to make sure that not Not only that we fight back, let's stop reacting and responding, but let's take the offense and fight forward.

1:11:43Brian Tyler Cohen:That was as perfect a distillation of the current environment we live in as I've ever heard. And look, my message for anybody listening right now, especially elected officials, is that exact degree of fight that you just showed is what I hope that we can hear from every single Democratic elected official in the entire country right now. So Beto, as always, I appreciate the work you're doing in Texas. I would mention right now for anybody watching, you know, Beto mentioned we still have work to do in terms of registering voters. The work you do with Powered by People is second to none. So I'm going to put a link on this screen and also in the post description.

1:12:18Brian Tyler Cohen:If you're listening on the podcast, go to PoweredXPeople.org. That is the best organization in Texas to register voters among a raft of other excellent organizations as well. But please support Beto's work, support all of the all of the great volunteers that are that are associated with Powered by People. And let's help continue to to register voters in a state that is known to be the single most difficult state to register voters in the entire country. So, again, I'll put that link on the screen and also in the post description of this video. Beto, as always, I appreciate the time. Grateful to you, Brian.

1:12:51Thank you.

1:12:54Brian Tyler Cohen:Thanks again to Gavin Newsom, Jasmine Crockett, Summer Lee and Beto O 'Rourke. That's it for this episode. Talk to you next week.