No Such Thing As Anti-Schmetterling Schnibbles

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0:58James Harkin:Hello and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from three undisclosed locations around the UK. My name is Dan Schreiber and the reason we are three today as Anna is on holiday, so I am joined by Andrew Hunter-Murray and James Harkin, and once again we have gathered round the microphones with our four favourite facts from the last seven days, and in no particular order, here we go. Starting with fact number one, that is Andy. My fact is that scientists are trying to save water voles by feeding them glitter. Yes. Oh, nice. Yeah. I thought plastic was bad for the environment.

1:40Yeah. Well, yes. They're not feeding them plastic. They're not only feeding them plastic. It's not like they're just shoveling glitter into these poor voles. Basically, they're very endangered, water voles, in the UK. If you're listening from outside the UK, we have these charming little things. Ratty from Wind in the Willows is actually a water vol, he's not a rat. But they're really, really endangered for various reasons. And so conservationists are now trying to track them, work out where they are. They're quite hard to track because they're quite elusive. We normally track them by looking for their poo.

2:08but obviously hard to find like a small poo on a riverbank that's edible as the old saying goes it's like looking for a poo on a riverbank and so they're feeding them this edible like sort of biodegradable glitter the kind that you get on cakes and things like that so not plastic um i suppose yeah i suppose it's kind of useful because even if you find a poo on a riverbank you don't know who it belongs to it could be a mouse or a vole or a fisherman or whatever you just but voles

2:36James Harkin:are very organized with their poo. They have actual toilets. So I think to an educated eye, you would know immediately you're staring at water vol poo. Yeah. And they are on the decline, aren't they, Andy? It's 90 % down at the end of the 20th century than what we had before. So what they're doing now, they're feeding them glitter. They've been experimenting on captive vols to see if these produce extra sparkly poos, which will be easier to spot. And the experiment, very pleased to report, has worked. 24 hours later as the Beeb report put it a tiny glittery poo was spotted so look out for that on the riverbank near you it's quite cool as well they seem to be able to differentiate between different families of voles with quite an easy way, do you know?

3:22James Harkin:different coloured glitter? different coloured glitter so you know one family might have silver poo and then you've got another with gold poo down there and that's how they can differentiate who's packed together and where they're going that's going to become a status symbol in the water vol world isn't it? It's like the silver poos are not going to hang out with the gold poos anymore. We'd like to invite you to join our platinum poo club.

3:45Here's an interesting problem with this study, I think, that if you're trying to count water vole poos to count the number of water voles, there is a problem because water voles tend to eat poo. Not only that, they often eat or they sometimes eat poo directly from the anus. so it's not like you have a bit of time to find it before it gets eaten.

4:09James Harkin:Have a little self-respect. That's too keen, isn't it? That's a bit too keen if you're... It's too keen. That's sticking your mouth under Mr. Whippy's ice cream machine, isn't it? Before it hits the cone. Yeah. And they have these latrines where they all go. But there's another method that was pitched to find them in 2020 because it is really hard to find them because they're on the riverbanks and so on. It's just hard to survey, especially steep riverbanks, which was giving them floating toilets. So they were given these rafts made of floating polystyrene. And the idea is they'll think that is a terrific loo.

4:44I must use that little floating platform as a loo. It only works if they don't have fantastic loos already. If they've already got a great loo set up, then they won't use your platform.

4:52James Harkin:Yeah, clever. They've set those up largely because you can't walk around looking for water voles. You often mess the local environment up. So if you ever see a platform, look around, you might see a bunch of men with binoculars sort of honing in on the little platform. They're not perverts, weirdly. You'll see them and you'll think, what a bunch of perverts, but actually they're looking at water vol poop. They're heroes. They're conservation heroes. Yeah. It's better than the old way. So an old way of doing it was you would put radio colors on your voles and you can kind of track them that way.

5:25but they found that when you did that there would be way more male voles born and that's because a female vole who is stressed will give birth to males and that's like an evolutionary thing because when you know when your population is under threat you need more males but what they found is that when the females were wearing these radio colors there were just way more males born is that why i have so many boys finella was so stressed during all the three pregnancies It's not. Certainly during the conception I think she must have been, yeah.

6:00Have you been talking to her? How do you know that? Can we talk about mink? Yeah. Can we please talk about the American mink? Oh, okay. What is, I wasn't expecting pushback on that.

6:15James Harkin:What is a mink? As in, is it a bowl? Do you see the big sort of jacket, the big coat that Andy's wearing at the moment? Yeah, yeah. Very flush collar. It's perfect for this 31 degree heat that we're living in in London at the moment. Pure mink. Pure mink. Yeah, the mink really wicks away the sweat. It goes really nicely with the dismembered polar bear head you're wearing as a hat as well. Okay, guys. So basically, when Kenneth Graham wrote Wind of the Willows and wrote Ratty, there were loads of water bowls all over the UK. Then, in the last 100 years, one of the main problems like there's a little bit of climate and a little bit of habitat stuff the main problem seems to be goddamn american mink coming over here eating our voles they were farmed in the uk for ages there used to be hundreds of mink farms everywhere and obviously some of them escaped and blah blah blah and they bred and the main problem is right if a water voles hole looks like this i'm just holding up my hands for dana james here it's like this size right and when you say water voles hole you mean the hole to the house where they live i apologize yeah if this If a water vol's hole was this size, you'd spot the poos a lot more easily.

7:21So, like an owl comes down. Obviously, an owl can't get through this spot. It's just not possible. But a mink is basically like a furry drainpipe. Like, it's perfect. It's the right size to just get into the burrow. And they have no defenses against them. So, they can just be eaten like dozens and dozens. A mink can just dispatch dozens of vols, basically. It's a big problem. But basically, they've worked out now they need to eradicate mink from England, you know. because they're an invasive species and they've done a trial where they've eradicated them from five percent of england which is quite big when you think about it so get this i just love how this trap works you james you'll love this you get a hollow golf ball okay bit of a waste of a golf ball is it like a training golf ball that you ever get those oh you can get those little plastic ones with holes in i think it's like that so you you get that you put that inside the trap and inside that hollow golf ball is a cigarette filter containing one or two drops from the mink's anal scent gland which you have harvested this is getting better and better for me cigarette filters anal glands golf balls this is like this is like my luxury items when i go on desert island desks so you've you've harvested the anal gland um droplets from your previous the last mink you caught so it's very sustainable system and you so you put them in the cigarette filter you drip it on and then you just set a mink to catch a mink basically and then the trap door closes when the mink goes in and the trappers then get an email saying you have caught one mink

8:49James Harkin:and then they could just go and kill the mink basically that system of um using the holes uh for them to burrow through is also another way by the way that they've been trying to monitor and work out how many vols are out there so um they get a tube and they will pad it up all the on the inside with sticky tape so when the water vol goes through bits of hair gets stuck into the hole and then they can look inside and go oh yep there's been a vol does it not strip off its fur comes out completely naked it's a not effective way of doing it really um actually that's a good way to make the mink coats just get them go through that tunnel jesus collect the hair i just want to say for the listener just in case you didn't get it that it was a joke earlier andy is not wearing any animal products today.

9:34No, my underpants are our fur, but you weren't to know that. You know who stopped mink in the UK? Well. Because there used to be hundreds and hundreds of farms, and they were mostly farming them for their fur. It was pretty cruel, actually. Chris Packard. It's an MP. It's a current MP, actually, who's got a really appropriate name, Labour MP. Oh, okay. Arnold Valls. God, this is tough. I'm going to tell you. It's Maria Eagle. Okay. Oh, that was gettable. If we'd have sat here for four and a half hours, well, let's say Anna's here three and a half hours, because she's good on MPs. I reckon we could have got that.

10:12Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's cool. And she basically had a private member's bill where she got them cancelled. And then animal rights people would free thousands and thousands of mink. They'd break into the mink farms. And then in one of the stupid... They were being kept in very cruel conditions, but the answer is not to release thousands of incredibly dangerous carnivores into the local environment like yeah wow i've mostly got mink stuff for this fact i must say andy like due to the fact that this fact was about water bowls and glitter my mink material is quite

10:42James Harkin:scant i'm not so hot on it either though i am excited for your new quiz show where a single question requires three and a half hours of guesswork before we get to the answer can i say a thing about glittery poo before we move on um tardigrades sometimes have glittery poo do you You know what a tardigrade is? Like these tiny little, they're known as water bears as well. They live in water. They're kind of ubiquitous. They live everywhere you look. They're kind of indestructible. If you fire radioactivity at them, they don't die. If they go into space, they don't die. They're like superhero animals.

11:16Right. But these tiny little minuscule bugs. But they found some with glitter in their poo. And they wondered where on earth did they get it from? And it turns out that they probably swallowed their own mouth. Interesting. That's because they have these kind of crystal-like teeth in their mouth called silets. They used to grind little bits of invertebrates. And then every now and then they molt. But usually the teeth would just go out onto the floor. But sometimes they accidentally eat their own teeth. And then they end up with really glittery poo. Wow. You can swallow teeth. I've swallowed teeth before.

11:50What? No. I'm sure I swallowed my first tooth. My first tooth that ever came out my first milk tooth. I'm sure I accidentally thought it was a hell of a story if it was someone else's. I'll tell you what, hell of a story for the tooth fairy who has to go sieving your shit afterwards to give you 50p. It has to go under my pillow. This is not good. No one wins. Oh, little Andy, what's happened to your bed? No, no, no, let me explain. I swallowed my tooth. Just normally when you shit the bed, you shit it further down. That's the problem. like it's very it's a bad old night when it ends up under the pillow uh the word glitter comes from the vikings that's cool isn't it you wouldn't think that no but it just meant something that shines or shimmers and obviously vikings went on the sea a lot and the sea shimmers a lot so they used the word glitter to mean that and then obviously glitter as we know it today was came

12:41James Harkin:in the 20th century yeah glitter has its foundations in new jersey and that's where most of the glitter is made these days. And there's a company, I think the second largest company called GlitterX, who gave an interview to the New York Times. And it's insane, the protection. It's as if they're protecting KFC's secret ingredients or Coca-Cola. They won't show any journalists how their glitter is made. They won't let them hear how it is made. It's crazy. It's a really crazy article. The journalist, she asks, who is the biggest market in the world for glitter products? Expecting it's going to be something like Carnival or whatever um and they say we can't tell you that oh and she says why not and they say we can't tell you why not let's just leave it at that shall we interesting i think it's the u.s air force it's going to be military it's got military they have things called chaff tubes uh and this is a thing where they fire out tiny little bits of glitter out of the airplanes so if you got a missile that is kind of locked onto you with radar fire a load of glitter out then um the radar kind of gets confused and the missile is quite yeah it's quite a sort of fabulous way of like fighting like winning an air war you know what i mean like it's quite showbiz you know yeah you've got a mig on your ass go sparkle mode yeah i like that it's possible they don't want to say because it's used for stopping counterfeiting so in the same way they're using it on water vols so that they can monitor where they are companies like big manufacturers of plywood will have tiny bits of glitter inserted inside so that it's yeah because i'm always getting my counterfeit plywood i'm always going to the plywood shop and going this isn't the real stuff have you got anything got any cheaper plywood under the counter for me mate maybe what do you think the counter's made of mate that's yeah no absolutely like it's used in so many different products just to stop so global counterfeiting funny yeah and then just really quickly it was invented by henry f ruchman who was a german immigrant who was coming to new york on a boat in 1926 and he was hired as soon as he got off the boat because the captain of the ship noticed that he was a brilliant machinist and he went straight to the guy who was the charge of the westinghouse company which is like a big electronics company at the time and said you've got to hire this man so the guy literally walked top of the ship and straight into a job and he worked on the machine that cut out you know like if you take photos and you might get a big reel of photos you need to cut them into smaller photos he worked on one of those machines and then he noticed he had lots of little bits of plastic left over and that they shined in the light and he called them schnibbles wow it's kind of an accidental discovery andy was it was it now yeah that's it legit i prefer schnibbles i think that's It's a great name.

15:34Guys, I'm so sorry. I have one more thing to say on voles, but it's important. It's actually important. There's a group in South London who are involved in the vol reintroduction thing. They're called Citizen Zoo, and they have a scheme called Get Involved. Voled. It's better written down. And one thing you can do is you can make a small donation and you can name some water voles. So, very pleased to announce that I've made a small donation of company money. oh right not your own money because remember when we sponsored that um explosive finding rat or whatever it was that was my own money that paid for that wasn't your money oh okay um well i thought you guys would want to be in on this so i i will be i will be invoicing anyway there are now there are now two bowls somewhere in south london called everard and digby Oh Lovely Perfect Hey this is Kevin This is Joe And Nick Jonas from Hey Jonas This episode of Hey Jonas is brought to you by the all new drink lineup at McDonald's I don't have to tell you that there are already so many great drink options at McDonald's But the new drink lineup I mean it takes things to another level They've got delicious caffeinated refreshers Like the strawberry watermelon refresher Crafted sodas like the Spriteberry Blast and now the all-new Red Bull Dragonberry Energizer.

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18:11James Harkin:Okay, it is time for fact number two, and that is James. Okay, my fact this week is that according to Tongan mythology, the island of Kau was almost stolen one night, but the god tafakula bent over and the light shone out of his anus so brightly that the thieves fled in fear the classic maneuver so i was reading an article in live science about volcano that went off in the pacific last year and the headline was shining anus volcano in tonga coughs up cloud of smoke during a recent eruption and obviously that kind of caught my eye a little bit so i read this article and it said that this island called tofua it's got like a ring almost like the top has been cut off and there's a ring and there's a lake inside it and then nearby there's another volcano that looks like a perfect triangle and the story goes that there were three deities called Tuvavata, Sisi and Fangar.

19:15And they were going to steal Tofua. So they came and they tore off the top of the mountain. And when they tore it off, a lake appeared. But then this Tongan god Tafakula came along. He bent over, showed his anus. It shone so brightly. They were struck with fear. They threw the top of the mountain in the air. It landed and became this other island. And that's how the two islands sort of came to be. and then in life science the final sentence says it is unclear from the account why taffa cool as

19:45James Harkin:anus shone like the sun okay well so this this story was taken from a book that was written by a man called edward winslow gifford um and it was published in 1924 all about tongan myths and tales and there's quite a few it's all oral tradition told to this guy and and he noted it down and there's about five or six different versions. Sounds more like anal tradition. Hey. So there's a bunch of different stories in this book. And he writes down the different interpretations that are given. And one of the things that is mentioned in one of the stories is that his name itself, Tafakulu, is... No, I'm not going to...

20:26James Harkin:Stop laughing, Andy. I'm pressing on. His name is Tafakulu. And his name translates as red edges. And it says he had a red anus. So it's quite possible that just the anus itself was so red, brightly red, that it was mistook for the light. So we have a partial explanation. The song Roxanne by the police was actually originally called Tafakula. You don't have to put on the red light. No, please, Tafakula, it's fine. The cavity's over. Wow. So, I mean, it's just a story, I guess. But it's quite an amusing story. And I think quite a lot of Pacific cultures have origin myths, which have parts of the body in them, slightly different to the ones that we might have.

21:11So in Hawaiian culture, there's a goddess called Kohe Kohe Lele, whose name translates as Kapo with a traveling vagina. And there is a crater on Oahu, which is named after her vulva. and the idea is that Pili, who's the goddess of volcanoes, she was being attacked by a shapeshifting man with a pig's head and then Kapo came along, lured the attacker away by throwing her vagina onto a ha-hoo. He ran away from Pili. She managed to escape and the vagina became this crater. She threw her hoo-ha onto a ha-hoo? She did. Sorry, I didn't listen to anything else you were saying I'm excited to have realised that

21:59James Harkin:What a move What a move I had a bit of a scan through the Tongan myths and tales to see if there were any other stories that involved anuses and I could only find one other and it's to do with a tale of an island called Ua E-U-A, Ua and there was a great warrior called Tataki and basically he had all of his wife's relations killed really bad move really annoyed her she decided that she was going to kill him and so her method was she met him on top of a mountain brought up a coconut half a coconut full of water but she only filled it halfway through so as he drank it he had to lift it right up to get all of the water in and when he did that she pushed him off the edge he managed to grab her and they both plummeted to their deaths she fell to the ground but unfortunately he got snagged on a tree on the way down where the branch went right through his anus and came up out on the other side and a bunch of warriors who were coming to back up the wife saw him sort of levitating in the air looking incredibly intimidating and fled off the island because they thought he'd reached sort of like god level status in his anger um what a lot of stories right they have a kind of meaning to them like aesop's fables have a really clear slow and steady wins the race what is the meaning of this story i'm not entirely sure but there is still a cave on that cliff face where it's said to has happened that is called to tacky named after him don't attack women is that the motto of the story it's a good motto what about the motto being even in the worst of situations when you've got a tree impaling your anus and you just died some good can come of it that's a really nice message actually that's a really good message all the flip side is to the warriors if your opponent looks intimidating double check that he's not actually impaled through the anus by a stick really good tonga for a lot of people might seem as if it's just one place it's not a bunch of islands it's down in the pacific it's about 170 islands gathered under this one sovereignty right and james have you been there i've always been thinking this is a james harkin place no i haven't been to anywhere in the south pacific the empire of tonga at one stage spanned more than a thousand miles which made it about the same size as the zulu empire and the aztec empires Pretty good Of course Well for Tonga Most of it was ocean Right So it's a little bit Less useful to have A huge empire If most of it's the ocean I guess Yeah that's That's sort of cheating Yeah Tonga was originally Known as the Friendly Islands Okay And that was after Captain James Cook Arrived there in 1773 And he arrived During a festival And he was invited To join in And he thought Their locals were so friendly That he should call it The Friendly Islands Unknown to him Apparently the reason that they didn't kill him because the chiefs could not agree on a plan on how to kill him bureaucracy amazing that's so good they're all standing around a diagram of like different ways like angles of attack and things like that like one of them's holding a spear one of them's holding a tree they might put up his anus what's what's on the board guys oh no don't don't worry about it just go back to the go to the festival um shouldn't actually be this is a restricted bit actually um yeah i um i visited his house when we were on tour uh captain cook oh that's right it's in melbourne and they brought over the entire house to melbourne in fact it's a house he never lived in it was his parents house so it's a slightly confusing place but a good afternoon out well there you go i've got i've i was looking into some more of the weird sort of moments throughout the history of the tonga empire and for a three-year period, the king of Tonga was a piece of wood.

25:42James Harkin:So basically what had happened was the king, Talatama, had passed away and he had no children. And so this broke the line and this has happened in the past where it then goes to another clan or so on. And the brother of Talatama thought this can't happen. So he created a piece of wood that was painted and a bit shaped like a doll and said, this is the new king. And so the new king was put onto the throne. And then the new king, after a while, was given a wife. It sounds like it was a real human, as opposed to a piece of wood, because they don't mention it's a wooden wife. And then the piece of wood died after three years, but it left a son with the wife.

26:27James Harkin:And that was the brother. And then he took control. Yes. How does a piece of wood die? Well, how does an anus radiate light? There are lots of questions in the Tongan world that we don't have the answers to. You know, this is back in the 12th century. So this sits in that world of myth and legend. But it is a story that is known there. So the brother was trying to create an opportunity for himself to become king. Yeah. So he creates a sort of quasi-father figure in this piece of wood, marries it to some poor woman. then she has a baby who happens to be the guy who wanted to be the king in the first place is that it it's exactly that yeah very nice skillful um do they have to do a paternity test no you don't look anything like him you haven't got his knots are you guys familiar with the practice of um perineum sunning jesus no well i mean is it exactly what it sounds like it's exactly what it sounds like And it's to do with the claim that if you get 30 seconds of sunlight directly on your bottom, I mean right in there, it's the equivalent of a full day of sunlight with your clothes on.

27:41Interesting. Okay, that's useful to know. Does that work with tanning boots as well?

27:46James Harkin:Well, it's very hard to get your legs up in the booth, isn't it? But surely they can direct a beam just straight in. You're right, actually. um well don't do it basically you might get sunburned you've got quite thin skin down there don't do it please don't do it this fact was about uh a light putting off burglars do you think lights put off burglars or not yes yeah well you might be wrong oh interesting so um there have been various studies done uh there was one at the university of loughborough that found that if you have a burglar alarm with a light, you're more likely to be burgled. But they're not sure.

28:28It might be because burglar alarms are put in places that are more likely to be burgled anyway. And so that's why it happens. But there was also a study at London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, weirdly, at UCL. And they found that when you turn the streetlights off between midnight and 5 a.m., there are a lot less cars broken into in a certain area. and that's they think because it might make it more difficult to see if there are any valuable goods in your car and they might get scared it's spooky it's dark yeah it's spooky being out of the dark yeah yeah it is yeah and there's um i've got one of these security lights and we're saying that maybe i should turn it off well there was um a study in 2019 that found correlations between light levels and unsafe places and what they found is that when you have the lights on in a certain area that means there's almost more dark places for people to hide do you know i mean because the contrast between the light and dark is more so you're walking around the light bit you think everything's fine but there are going to be some dark areas where people can hide whereas if it's always dark your eyes will be more accustomed than you'll be able to see things so basically the jury's out a little bit i think okay that's interesting that's like you know the classic

29:43James Harkin:movies where prison guards have that one beam of light that they look for escaping prisoners going around, and they're always in the dark. What you're saying is that kind of impedes the hunt. They should turn it off. Don't worry guys, I know what I'm doing. I've read a study from the University of Loughborough which insists that if we turn off the lights it'll be safer. Dan caught in the middle of the prison yard with his pants around his ankles, going, I thought there were some medical benefits. Not trying to escape, just trying to get my 30 seconds of daily sun. it's midnight shriver

30:26James Harkin:okay it is time for fact number three and that is my fact my fact this week is that for over 20 years now fans of the doctor who actor tom baker have been regularly visiting his gravestone at a cemetery in kent despite the fact that he isn't yet dead um wow yeah so this is i found this out in a brilliant autobiography that tom baker wrote many years ago called who on earth is tom baker i started on the final chapter which is where i found it so tom baker many years ago was living in a little town in kent called bought in malherb and he lived in a house that was directly opposite at a church, St.

31:09James Harkin:Nicholas's Church. And he used to go and do his bit for the community. He would mow the grass in front of the church. And he decided, this is where I want to be buried. So he paid for a plot, but it seemed that there was a deal that you could get a headstone at the same time. So he bought one. So it is engraved Tom Baker, 1934, too, and then a blank space that will one day be filled in it's all moldy it's it's got muscle over it it's weather beaten and people come and visit it and quite often back in the day when tom baker was still living there he would often pop up behind the people who were looking at and say surely he's not gonna die he's just gonna turn into peter davidson isn't he yes that is yeah that's a little dr hugh joke for anyone who's ever watched dr hugh which is not me Yeah, so he is, we should point out the connection properly, Doctor Who.

32:03James Harkin:So Tom Baker was the fourth Doctor. He was the longest serving Doctor in all of Doctor Who's history. So he's kind of more associated as the Doctor than most of the other ones. I'm just going to tell you, because he is quite a quirky character, and I'll just give you a little bit of insight into how weird he is. In this final chapter in the book, when he talks about it, the story that he uses to tell the story is that he's mowing outside the church, and there's a man standing there and the man says, oh, hello. And he makes a point about his mower, his lawnmower. He says, oh, it's very nice. And he's acting all weird.