In short
The episode mixes three main threads: (1) a “No Such Thing As The God of Snooze Buttons” theme built around unusual facts, (2) a guest interview, and (3) four “facts of the week” segments. It opens with ads for Menards (landscape block, Crescent Edgers sale through April 12) and Kitta Home Safety Products (smoke/carbon monoxide detectors with reduced false alarms).
Guest
Anne Miller, former QI producer/“QI elf,” now a children’s author. Her book The Monster Diaries retells the Cyclops myth from the Cyclops’ point of view, portraying Odysseus as a “prat” and aiming to “set the record straight.” It’s part of a trilogy.
Key claims/examples
Lou Wallace’s Ben-Hur dedication was misread as implying his wife died; later editions clarified she “still abides.” Chiamites is a little-known Greek “god of beans.” A “Blackbeard” (William Blackbeard) saved 2.5 million original American comic strip clippings by extracting them from Library of Congress microfilming plans. Naked mole rats appear to keep fixed roles (including “toilet cleaner”) based on RFID-tracked studies.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VODiscussing The Monster Diaries
3:00 to 3:22
The hosts discuss Anne Miller's new book about the Cyclops myth.
The Story of Ben-Hur
3:22 to 4:48
Andy shares an interesting fact about the author Lou Wallace and Ben-Hur.
“I am sitting here with James Harkin, Andrew Hunter-Murray, and Anne Miller.”
Lou Wallace's Life and Achievements
4:48 to 8:00
Exploration of Lou Wallace's life, including his military and literary contributions.
“I should say this was sent in by Amber O 'Ran.”
The Inventions and Myths of Lou Wallace
8:00 to 9:50
Discussion on Wallace’s inventions and the myth surrounding the snooze button.
“Then there was a 1925 one, which was very faithful to it.”
Lou Wallace: Inventor and Author
14:00 to 15:54
Explore the life and inventions of Lou Wallace, including his connection to Billy the Kid.
“And I think that's then the reason that Billy the Kid's people were so upset with him, I think.”
The God of Beans: Chaimites
17:40 to 28:05
Delve into the lesser-known Greek god of beans and the complexities of Greek mythology.
“Okay, it is time for fact number two, and that is Anne.”
The Odyssey's Financial Lessons
28:05 to 29:43
Learn how the story of Odysseus relates to modern financial institutions.
“There's this amazing article by Thomas Fedorek who's spotted.”
The Treasure of American Comics
29:43 to 30:43
Discover the story of how a treasure trove of comic strips was saved.
“Do you know what my hedge fund will be called?”
Preserving Comic Strip History
30:43 to 33:14
Explore the efforts made to preserve American comic strips from extinction.
“was discovered in a naval warehouse by a man called Blackbeard.”
The Evolution and Impact of Cartoons
33:14 to 35:35
Understand the historical context and cultural significance of cartoons.
“Probably sold it a bit better than that.”
Show all 18 chapters
Comics and Controversy
35:35 to 37:59
Examine the criticisms and controversies surrounding comic books over the decades.
“And the word cartoon at that time meant like a little sketch you would do on cardboard before you did your big painting.”
The Comics Code and Censorship
37:59 to 40:18
Learn about the Comics Code and its impact on the comic book industry.
“But on the side, he was an anti-racism campaigner.”
Cultural Reflections in Comics
40:18 to 42:01
Discuss the cultural reflections and societal changes represented in comic narratives.
“In 1954 in Glasgow, there was a vampire hunt.”
The Curious Case of Dennis the Menace
42:01 to 43:31
Explore the coincidence of the simultaneous creation of Dennis the Menace in the UK and the USA.
“was there's a really popular musical song called Dennis the Menace from Venice.”
Naked Mole Rat Facts
44:27 to 47:59
Discover the surprising social structure and unusual traits of naked mole rats.
“But we should say, if you've never seen an egg emora and you're listening to this, do have a little Google because they just are not classically fit animals.”
Unique Adaptations of Naked Mole Rats
47:59 to 52:16
Learn how naked mole rats survive and thrive in low oxygen environments.
“So when she has babies, she gets a whole load of estrogen in her body.”
The Health of Naked Mole Rats
52:16 to 55:30
Discuss the health benefits of naked mole rats and their unique characteristics.
“That's so unfair I know, that's life isn't it?”
Connecting with the Podcast
56:22 to 56:50
The hosts share how listeners can engage with the podcast and send in interesting facts.
“And if you want to get through to us, by the way, podcast at QI.com.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Dream big and save big on your next backyard project at Menards. Whether you're shopping for edgers, pavers, or wall blocks, Menards has the largest in-stock selection of concrete landscape block ready to take home today. Build a beautiful border for your landscape with our Crescent Edgers on sale now through April 12th. Plus, check out our weekly flyer on Menards.com for all the great deals happening now. Save big money at Menards. Keep your family safe with help from Menards. From smoke and carbon monoxide detectors to fire extinguishers and more, Kitta Home Safety Products keep your family protected in case of emergencies.
0:41Kitta detectors feature enhanced sensing technology that reduces false alarms and give fast alerts for more time to get out safely. Check out all our Kitta Safety Products and check out our weekly flyer on Menards.com for more great deals happening now. Save big money at Menards. Hi everyone, welcome to this week's episode of No Such Thing As A Fish, where we are joined by our good friend and erstwhile colleague, Anne Miller.
1:09James Harkin:That's right, Anne Miller. Not just a QI elf these days, not just a brilliant producer, but a children's author. Yes, she has a new book out. It is called The Monster Diaries. What's it about, Andy? It's about the Cyclops and the worst party ever. It's a telling of the Cyclops myth from the Cyclops' point of view, which is a very funny and good idea. Turns out Odysseus is a complete prat. And the Cyclops is the one who should be the hero of the story, but has been mistreated by history. So Anne is setting the record straight. I've got to say, it's an amazing book. My daughter has been swimming in it for the last week.
1:45She cannot put it down. And she's been asking for it to be read to her at every bedtime. I know other kids will love it too.
1:52James Harkin:And it's a part of a trilogy, so there's two more on the way. If you want to subtly get brilliant bits of history and mythology into your child's brain, this is the way to do it. Yes, that's right. And if you have a very big brain yourself, and you would like to show people how big your brain is, then guess what? You have a chance to do so this coming week, because we have our next No Six Things Are Fish quiz night. Yes, if you're a member of Clubfish or the friend of the podcast tier, you can come to our online quizzes. The three of us have been beavering away, writing questions. I am getting a costume for my round.
2:29I haven't told you guys this yet.
2:31James Harkin:It's ordered. Is it a beaver costume? It's not a beaver costume. It's so much worse than that. But basically, it's an enormously fun night. You can join as a team with friends or family and it's all done over Zoom. So we will send you a link and you can just join. It's going to be on, is it the 14th of April? That's right. 2026. Yep, this year. ad and it's at 7 p.m uk time so go to patreon.com slash club fish look for that friend of the podcast here and then you will be able to join us and see if you can pick your wits against other fish fans okay on with the podcast on with the show
3:21James Harkin:Hello and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from the QI offices in Hoburn. My name is Dan Schreiber. I am sitting here with James Harkin, Andrew Hunter-Murray, and Anne Miller. And once again, we have gathered around the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days. And in a particular order, here we go. Starting with fact number one That is Andy My fact is The author of Ben-Hur Dedicated the book to his wife But he accidentally made it sound like she died And when he tried to fix it Made it sound even more like she died Oh no So this is Lou Wallace Who wrote Ben-Hur Which was one of the biggest books of the world It was out in about 1880 I think it was the biggest selling novel of the 19th century until Gone with the Wind I think it was massive and it's a Roman epic that also takes in the birth of Jesus of the life of Jesus it's a bit like the life of Brian but it's serious is the best way I can describe it like it's huge though for many people it was the first fiction they'd ever read it just sold so many millions of copies it's like the modern version of the Da Vinci Code Fifty Shades of Grey and Miller's New Book yes it's all of that it's all of that do you have leprosy in yours there?
4:42no Oh, you missed a trick there. It always adds 50 % to sales. A psychop with a big eye. I should say this was sent in by Amber O 'Ran. So thank you very much, Amber. It's a terrific fact. Basically, Wallace was married to his wife, Susan, and he said, I'm going to dedicate the book to you. What would you like? And she chose the wording, to the wife of my youth. Only my youth. Yeah, exactly. A lot of people read that as, oh, that's so sad. She passed away, you know, some years ago. To the wife of my youth. And he wrote, I began to receive letters of sympathy and inquiries as to when and of what poor Mrs.
5:17Wallace died. She was alive and well. And he got so many. I think he started getting marriage proposals by people thinking, hey, well, he's single. He writes a good book. Yeah. And he had to go back and he asked his wife to help him fix it. So later copies read, to the wife of my youth who still abides with me. Oh, my God. She lives on in my heart. Isn't that like the world's most famous funeral song as well? But yes Just to my wife To my wife To my wife Who's here right now She's looking great She's never looked better I think Here's the problem It's a great novel He's written this great novel His wife is only doing One little bit His wife has done The dedication both times And she's messed it up twice Yeah Yeah Yeah She had one job But She's played the long game In terms of PR Because now she's on Those things of fish Oh yeah Susan Wallace Susan Wallace Is she still alive?
6:10Well she outlived him by a couple of years. Did she? Do you know that she was a writer as well? And I read that she came up with the phrase the pastor of little feet in a poem. Ah, is that out? That's huge.
6:20James Harkin:And people will know that more than Ben-Hur. So it's snappier, isn't it? Yeah, it's quicker. It was a big book. I mean, there's no doubt that this was a huge, huge moment in literature. It supposedly was blessed by Pope Leo XIII. That's a story that goes around. It was one of the first books that was turned into a Braille book. but that's a big book to be braille. That is a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You get tired fingers. Yeah, and it was... What? You would get tired fingers, yeah. And tired eyeballs from reading it because it is a monster book. Tired is if you listen to the audio. Do you see it was one of the first big merch tie-ins as well?
7:01So his son was a businessman and he licensed it to all sorts of things. You could get Ben-Hur cars, bicycles, cigars, Ben-Hur soap, Ben-Hur perfume, and Ben-Hur flower. As in stuff you make cakes with? Wow. I also read you could get Ben-Hur and Ben-His bathroom towels. Stop it. Apparently. That's very good. I didn't think they had His and Her stuff in the 1880s. I'm wrong, clearly. It's spelled H-U-R. I think the merch that I'm talking about came after the movie came out. And so the movie came out in the 50s, didn't it? Wow.
7:33James Harkin:Yeah, the Charlton Heston version. The real colossal famous one. But there have been four films. Have there? Four films. When was it the first one MGM ever made? Yeah, the first was in 1907, which was 15 minutes long, which at the time was an epic. Oh my God, I'm going to have to go for a wee three times. 15 minutes. And they didn't get the rights to it. They just made the film. So all prints of that film by law were destroyed except one. There was only one print left. Then there was a 1925 one, which was very faithful to it. And they got the rights. And then, yes, the 1959 one is a very famous old Hollywood, you know, swords and sandals epic.
8:10Charlton Heston plays Ben-Hur in the movie.
8:13James Harkin:Judah. And in Greece, it was not starring Charlton Heston. No, starring John Travolta. Yes. Yes. Anyway, just a little fact there for you guys. Two different people, it turns out. Anyway. So in Greece, they released this with another actor? No, it was still Charlton Heston, but he was billed as Charlton Easton. And the reason is, it's because in modern Greek, Hesto means to shit yourself. Yeah. Does it? It's a defecation thing. You tried driving a chariot that first. That's amazing. That's wild. I read that the film got the 111 Academy Awards, which is like the most anyone had got until Lord of the Rings, the third one that also got 11 and both books, HarperCollins books.
8:57Interesting. Oh. What are you trying to say here? detail this is a woman in publishing you know who um could you name any other harper collins books
9:07James Harkin:um yeah theory of everything else by dan shriver that was yeah an imprint mudlark of harper collins the really nice thing about the film versions is that there's a guy who directed the chariot race in the 1925 movie assistant directed it he's called william wyler he directed the 1959 film He worked his way up from assistant chariot race director To overall film director But the 1959 film is the only Hollywood movie Ever to make the Vatican's approved list of films Really? If you're having a Vatican movie night Vatican approved movie night Yes You can only watch one Hollywood film And it's Ben Hood And that's the only one Still to this day I don't know if they've updated the list You should write to them I should write to them So what are the other ones on there then?
9:55There's Dude Where's My Car 2 Not do Where's My Car 1 But that's Hollywood as well right So what I mean Is it like European Scandi dramas Educational films It'll be a load of boring Boring stuff won't it What if it's literally Joss Ben-Hur Maybe But when I was in primary school We had one video to record So every wet play Or end of term We all watched Mrs. Doubtfire But only the first 50 minutes Wow
10:21James Harkin:Why only the first 50? Because time ran out That's how long a lesson was So I didn't see the second half Until I was like 20 they're both the same guy it blew my mind i'm not kidding we watch the same 50 minutes every wet break like presumably you went to school in scotland right so for you guys it would be like a documentary how was the accent from robin williams okay can we talk a little bit about lou wallace i'm obsessed with lou wallace i knew nothing about him very very interesting fellow so So he started writing this book after basically being buttonholed on a train by an agnostic for some time.
11:01What do you mean by buttonholed? Sorry, it's like where someone grabs you a lapel and just talks at you for ages about something. Oh, okay. Being buttonholed, you know. So he was on a train with another soldier. He was a soldier in the, I think, Union Army in the Civil War? In the Civil War. Yes, in the Civil War. And he got talking to this soldier called Colonel Robert Ingersoll for ages and ages, who was quite a well-known agnostic speaker about, you know, doubts about the existence of God. And he just seems to have written a huge epic religious novel off the back of this conversation saying...
11:32Just to piss him off then. Seems like it, yeah, yeah. And it was read by so many famous people. So, friend of the podcast, I would say first and closest friend of the podcast... Robin Thickey. Thickey. Who? President James Garfield. No. Oh, he was a very well-read man. Well, he had time on his hands, didn't he, when I was lying around. Did you read about the job he gave him? No. So apparently President James Garfield, while he was president, he loved Ben Hur so much. And this, I wish people in power did this more often. He wanted to read the sequel so much that he gave Lou Wallace the job of ambassador to the Ottoman Empire based in Constantinople in the hope that being there would make him inspire him to write a sequel.
12:11Wow. Oh, wow. That's so cool. That's so cool. But he didn't write a sequel. He didn't write a sequel. Well, he was probably busy being the, it sounds like a big job, ambassador to the Ottoman Empire. That's a huge game. I imagine Donald Trump's done the same with Eric Carle to try and get him to do a very hungry caterpillar too. I'm here for it. But this guy's life is absolutely incredible. He's basically kind of like, the nearest comparison I can think of is like the Giles Brandreth of his time. Because he did everything. So when Abraham Lincoln was assassinated, he was one of the people who investigated the co-conspirators.
12:45He was a general in the Civil War. He was sent and made territorial governor of New Mexico, which is where he wrote Ben-Hur. Then he wrote the book. Then he did some deal with Billy the Kid that went wrong. So he had people going past his house and shooting at his candles while he was trying to write because they were so cross with him. This had gone south.
13:01James Harkin:Sorry, hang on, back up. Billy the Kid's people were shooting at his candles. He had to stop him writing. That's pretty cool. I mean, I don't think they were that good at shooting in those days. I know they were good, but to be able to shoot a candle. Yeah, you've got Calamity Jane who can do that, but that's about it. I don't think... How do you shoot a candle? Well, you just aim for the top, don't you? No, but how do you not accidentally kill Lou Wallace in the process? I think they wouldn't have minded. Yeah, okay. Well, he did end up having Billy the Kid arrested, which is... I think what happened with Billy the Kid, I might be wrong about this, but I think what happened was Billy the Kid was an outlaw, and he said, well, I'll pardon you.
13:40Come back and we'll let bygones be bygones, and maybe you can tell us about some of your accomplices. But then he kind of lost his power a little bit, and the other people who were in charge said, oh, we're not going to agree with that deal anymore. And Billy the Kid then went to prison. So I think it was like a deal that he did, but then he wasn't in a position to honour it. Interesting. And I think that's then the reason that Billy the Kid's people were so upset with him, I think. Right, right, right, right, right. That makes sense. They're like, what a life. What a life. He made his own violins, Lou Wallace.
14:11There you go. He patented eight inventions. One of them was a retractable reel inside a fishing rod handle. This guy. That's useful. Very useful. I was looking at the website of his study, which he built to play the violin in, is now a museum. And on the website, they've got these FAQs. So they're like, oh, did he really go back on his word to Billy the Kid? Did he really know Abraham Lincoln? But one of the questions is, did Lou Wallace really invent the snooze button? And the answer is no. And it says, and we're not sure how this rumor got started. How frequently asked is this question, really?
14:44Well, they ask it every nine minutes.
14:48James Harkin:I feel like with what we've heard about him that doesn't sound out of place he invented he did invent things not a snooze button and then there's this lovely quote from him where he said let's read the whole thing because it's beautiful he says I would not give a tuppence for the American who has not tried to do at least one of these things paint a picture write a book get a patent or try to play a musical instrument that is the genius of the true American in those four art, literature, invention and music it's easy for you to say or a sort of multi-award winning genius inventor. Military leader, presidential writer.
15:21James Harkin:Did he produce any other major work outside of Ben-Hur? He wrote the big biography for Benjamin Harrison while he was running for president. Ben-Hur? He should have called it that.
15:37Because there wasn't really much like, there wasn't like a TV news circuit you could go on. So to get to know the candidates, they push these books and he wrote Benjamin Harrison's. It's such a good job. It was like the book about him for like 70 years, but with the wrong title.
15:54Dream big and save big on your next backyard project at Menards. Whether you're shopping for edgers, pavers, or wall blocks, Menards has the largest in-stock selection of concrete landscape block ready to take home today. Build a beautiful border for your landscape with our Crescent Edgers on sale. Now through April 12. Plus check out our weekly flyer on Menards.com for all the great deals happening now. Save big money at Menards. Stop the podcast. Stop the podcast. Hi, everybody. Just to let you know, this episode of Fish is sponsored by Squarespace.
16:33James Harkin:That's right. You know Squarespace. It is the all-in-one website platform that is designed to help you stand out and succeed online. That's right. Right. No matter what you're doing, Squarespace gives you absolutely everything you need to claim the domain, make a gorgeous looking professional website and get paid all in one place. Yeah. You've got all the choices of all the design kit that you need. If you want to do fancy fonts, if you want images and so on, you can set up a donation page. There's so many brilliant things that it makes it just as easy as a click of a button to do. They're all the sort of basic nuts and bolts that it's incredibly useful to have.
17:05One of them is a thing called Squarespace domains. right so every squarespace domain comes with extra privacy and security tools included to ensure that your domain remains online and protected so andy's big world of moss is safe that's yes you know yes and they just provide everything you need they make it incredibly easy
17:23James Harkin:so all you need to do is head to squarespace.com slash fish to save 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain that's right go to squarespace.com slash fish save 10 of your first purchase of a website or domain, use the offer code FISH at the checkout. Okay, on with the show. On with the book go.
17:46James Harkin:Okay, it is time for fact number two, and that is Anne. My fact is that as well as more famous Greek gods like Poseidon and Zeus, there was also Chaimites, the god of beans. Yummy. Fantastic. What would be your job as god of beans? Just making sure. Counting them, I guess. count um there's very little known about kai mighties i should say so we think specifically the broad bean and we think he may have hung around with demeter who was the goddess of agriculture but he's quite mysterious do you get kind of junior because like in a government you have the main minister of transport but then you'll have the minister of buses who's it's got a smaller brief obviously is it the same kind of thing you'll have a god of the big deal like god of war and within that is a goddess of archery or i would say yes but with a lot more um having sex with your sister well we don't know what the minister of buses gets up to that's what the buses is about um yeah there's not much written about this guy um chiamites but um pausanias writes i cannot state for certain whether he was the first to sow beans or whether they gave this name to a hero because they may not attribute it to demeter the discovery of beans whoever has been initiated in Eleusis or has read what I call the Orphica knows what I mean and it's such we don't know what that means it's so mysterious but Andy's kind of right it kind of is like a government set up so you have you basically you're like 12 Olympic gods who live on Mount Olympus and there's kind of two groups there's Zeus and his siblings and then there are his children and there's some crossover and so you have Zeus who's married to Hera who is his sister they have some children there's also his sister they also have a child and then there are his children so that you've got like athena aphrodite hermes but again with greek mythology because the stories were told so often in different places there's different versions of everybody's parentage um so aphrodite's one is brilliant because there are one version of that she's zeus's daughter but not heroes um so far so straightforward yeah the other telling is that her father was a different god uranus god of the sea sorry Uranus God of the Sky and in that version of the story proper pronunciation Anne come on Anne not because of what's coming next and in this version he his testicles were cut off and thrown into the sea oh yeah and near Paphos in Cyprus and the resulting foam led to the creation of Aphrodite and her name comes from the Greek Aphros which means foam but there are very famous paintings of Aphrodite coming out of the sea and being born and so as far as I can tell no testicles in the paintings okay okay that's interesting is that the same as the birth of venus where she's on the shell yeah but before me yes i find it all very difficult to keep in my head you know i mean it's like you get it in quiz questions and stuff like that it always comes up and i've often tried to learn how everyone's related to each other but it's so difficult it mashes together and it changes and there's different versions even the 12 olympian gods there's different 12s depending on who you talk to they're kind of like zeus is always there but some of them vary around a little bit and it all starts slipping into each other
20:59Aphrodite we've mentioned the goddess of love she just has an interesting entourage of junior gods around her there's Eros there's Hermaphroditus and there's Hymen the god of marriage but there are various other I'd like this kind of very junior level gods so there's small gods as Terry Pratchett yes Hedilogos god of sweet talking nice sweet talking yeah right like is flirting yeah yeah yeah chat good chats bounce top but hot bounce um but aphrodite has another very interesting thing that she gave the world because she may have been the first mother ever to slipper her child as in like oh like thrash with a slipper oh really there's a vase from 360 bc which depicts aphrodite giving naughty little eros a spanking with a slipper which is obviously that's become you know that was a staple of things like the beano yeah yeah yeah with the slipper you know when you have a bad moment you think so i hope nobody saw me do that
21:59James Harkin:i'm having it painted on a vases no um we did something ages ago which was about pythagoras and his his uh yeah and his fear of beans is that connected in any way to the fact that i think it might be connected in some way in that the reason that he didn't like beans is because some people thought they had the souls of dead people in them they were definitely associated with death and they were an offering that you would give if someone had died and so for that reason they were obviously important in society and when something was so important they might have a god associated with them yes i think that's what what they also had sort of like deities they weren't specifically gods but they had special powers for certain areas.
22:45There was Horkus who personified the curse on those who make a bad oath. You would call to him. Momus is for mockery and satire. There's a whole bunch of skills. Momus is the bastard child of night. Momus was thrown out of Olympus eventually for hanging around making unhelpful comments. Which sounds like you would be... How dare you? He sounds like your patron saint. I did think oh wow the class clown has a yeah yeah so I get quite confused about how people in ancient Greece experienced all this what was the day to day life like with all of these gods I know they had individual temples and some major ones and some smaller ones but I just wanted to do a little quiz question for you guys when was the last temple built to the Greek gods
23:37James Harkin:oh there's probably still people around who believe in it so i would say 2025 yeah i think that's very likely but to play along with your game let's say it was 500 bc yeah 100 bc thank you may 2025 this morning it was in 2025
Read the full transcript
23:59yeah it's in the peloponnese and um it was the idea of a doctor called manolis heliotis who has 150 acres of land it's a proper temple like it's marble cool it's for specific gods or for all of them it do you know i don't know it sounds like a tax break to me it's very to the god right off yeah um it opened on the 8th of march oh the same birthday as no such thing as a fish oh that's up that's the day it is um it was illegal to worship zeus until 2006 yes uh in fact any of these lot if you wanted to do a kaya mighties festival then that was no can do but then in 2006 and athens court decided that um you can do this kind of pagan worshiping because before that you could only be i think an orthodox christian and one or two other things were allowed but yeah then they came in and then there were censuses and the u.s state department in 2006 reckoned there were 2 000 followers of the ancient greek religion although people who do that they reckon the number's more like a hundred thousand who still believe in those really i mean it's in their interest to pump up the numbers but it's not like it's not like a thing it's not a thing of saying you're a jedi which was on a census a few sentences it's more like it's more like being a wiccan i would say or like you know i sorry to the wiccans listening because i know people get that wrong a lot as well but it's it's worshiping the old gods yes which definitely there are people in the uk who did that yeah and the greek orthodox church are very down on this sort of thing they were very against this temple yeah yeah yeah they were very hostile to it and uh they said it was a
25:36James Harkin:regression to a dark world right gosh so uh uranus who you who didn't pronounce properly before and um so the only planet that we have that is named after a greek god so that's this is where it gets confusing because generally the planet names are the roman versions of the gods right so Aphrodite becomes Venus. But Neptune is Roman because the Poseidon Poseidon is the Greek. Yeah. Jupiter's Roman. Jupiter's Roman. Saturn's Roman. Yeah. But Uranus is the only one that's slightly. Seems to be both. Pluto is the dog. Yeah. Yeah. Running around barking a lot. Mercury is the lead singer of Queen. Would you like some fun ancient Greek etymology?
26:17Yes. So the word tantalizing is from Greek myth. I didn't know this until very recently it's a myth about king tantalus and he was punished by hades made him stand in a river up to his neck in water and he wasn't allowed to eat or drink so if he moved to get the fruit trees above him the water the trees would move he was to drink the water the water would move so he was like always trying to get food or drink and he couldn't but would you like to know why he was punished by the guys yes he did three things can we guess you can try he stole grapes yeah kind of He stole nectar and ambrosia.
26:48James Harkin:That's a pretty wild first hit rate. Next one, two and three. He smacked the wrong child with a slipper. He had sex with a sordid goddess naked. That often happens. That's a good one. I mean, they're not a million miles off. So the second one is secrets. He told secrets he'd overheard that he shouldn't have. And the third one is a worse version of the slipper. He killed his son and served him to the gods to test their powers of observation. And they did not like this. How was he serving him? I think in a stew. Oh, that's impossible to tell. A stew. There's a lot going on. Is this chicken? Is this pigeon?
27:25James Harkin:Is this your son? I don't know. The god of beans is going, though, what meat is this? Guys, something's up. I said we should all be vegetarians. That's really interesting because Tantalus is, so I was looking at the things we covered ages ago, that there are various financial houses named after Greek gods. It's a really common thing to do to make your grubby little hedge fund sound like it's been around for 2 ,000 years. You know what I mean? Like Olympian handlings. Yeah, exactly. Like Jupiter investments. Yeah, yeah. Whatever. You know, all of this stuff. But, sorry. If any hedge funders listening, if you want to sponsor an episode, we're very happy to do that.
28:05But there's a very niche one. There's this amazing article by Thomas Fedorek who's spotted. there's Uri Clea Partners and I'd never heard of Uri Clea and Uri Clea is a minor character in the Odyssey and this is actually I think the best named financial institution you could have named after a character from ancient myth because in the Odyssey Odysseus gets home 20 years later where have you been? all that but there are loads of chancers living in the house trying to chag his wife basically and she is putting them off and saying look my husband's going to be home any minute. But it's been 20 years and it's wearing increasingly thin.
28:44The god of snooze buttons going, I'll give you nine more minutes. So when Odysseus is on his way home, he will be killed by all the chancers who are, you know, young warlords trying to get with his wife. So the goddess Athena disguises Odysseus as a tramp so he won't be killed on sight, right? So he can get into the house and suddenly throw off his costume and win the prize and reclaim his wife and all this. Everyone is fooled by the sight of this tramp except Eurycleia who is an elderly servant living in the house and she is the one who spots a familiar scar on his thigh and says, you're Odysseus.
29:25How does she know his thigh so well? Well, good point. Good point. But she observes him and it means she can buy stocks in Odysseus, basically. So I think that is That is terrific. She has the insight based on good market knowledge. So I think that is a fantastic name for a financial organization. Do you know what my hedge fund will be called? Mine will be called Epimetheus Holdings. Because Epimetheus was the god of afterthought and excuses.
29:57And he was the brother of Prometheus. So Prometheus in this story creates humans. And Epimetheus creates all the other animals. but he's so sort of stupid and just really impulsive that he puts all the best bits on all the other animals. So he puts the wings on the eagles and he puts the humps on the camels and the trunks on the elephants and all the best bits were there. So the humans just get a shitty little human body. That's so funny. So should we have had humps and wings? We should have had humps, but in the end only the black eyed peas had them.
30:38James Harkin:Okay, it is time for fact number three, and that is my fact. My fact this week is that the greatest ever treasure trove of original American comic strips was discovered in a naval warehouse by a man called Blackbeard. Ooh, that's very cool. It's a great name. He's William Blackbeard. This was a guy who really is credited by people within the community of comic books in America as single-handedly the reason that we have all the original source material from, you know, the 30s onwards. He made it his mission to track down and find all the original newspapers. So he would go around to people's garages, you know, and he would just say, do you have any old newspapers?
31:20James Harkin:And often they did. And he would cut out the comic strips and he would log them. And so he kept this huge archive and he was having to do it very slowly. But then eventually he discovered that the Library of Congress had six acres of naval warehouse in Virginia. And it was where they were housing all of these newspapers that went back to the 19th century. And so he suddenly thought, great, they're safe. But then it turned out that they were getting rid of them because they thought, oh, they're going to deteriorate. So they were photographing, making microfilm of them, and then they were going to toss them away.
31:52James Harkin:Now, the issue for him was if you'd make a microfilm of comic strips, they're in black and white, they're no longer in color. And so he did a deal and he was able to extract them all and as a result saved all the originals of these things. So he's a real hero in that community. That's really cool. Did he have to cut out the strips individually or did he keep them as like full papers? No he did, he just kept them out. I don't know if he did that for every single one. Because like for every paper that's. You can't keep the whole paper that's why they were in warehouses. These huge stacks of papers and all he wanted was one tiny strip of paper.
32:19So we should say yes this is comic strips not comic books. Exactly. It's not a first edition Superman it's a first edition. Garfield. Garfield
32:26James Harkin:It was something like 2.5 million clippings That he managed to Get his hands on They're still going through The archives So there's a Couple of Instagram accounts Where they show Latest findings I saw one the other day Of a poster Of Charlie Brown Which they were really excited Because it's you know It's original So yeah A huge huge hero To this community I guess people didn't realise What they had Like you need somebody Like every book The British Library Takes a copy You need a system To store the comics And it sounds like That guy set it up and yeah him and his wife he just did it he just set up his own company and that's so cool yeah which he had to do i believe otherwise they wouldn't give it over to him because he wasn't an institution um yeah like resources are people like using this resource now yeah it's kind of the main archive that is used for any comic book history um he wrote a lot of books as well off the back of it um did he yeah he printed the strips didn't he he said look here are a load of peanuts cartoons.
33:20I think he did like... Probably sold it a bit better than that. I think I read he did a lot of consultancy work for people who wanted to know what was in the comics or to find out stuff, because he knew them all so well. Yeah. He was like the go-to comic strip guy. Yeah, the reason I was thinking is like, what use is it to have this stuff? A lot of medical knowledge in there, a lot of ancient lost secrets. You get hit by a frying pan twice, then you get your memory back. Yeah, yeah. It's just cultural history. It's cultural history, yeah. When did people start wearing braces? well let's look at this ancient edition of fred the dog or whatever it is yeah there's a lot of debate about when comics began because obviously they became big in the 20th century in a really big way in newspapers what about hieroglyphs well you've just outgunned my early bid which was for the bio tapestry oh yeah a comic strip is it a comic strip what about like um the cave paintings i've seen cave paintings where it appears like one thing comes after the other one Yes Oh yeah That's a good one Cave comics Arguably cartoons and comic strips Are the oldest medium
34:23James Harkin:There we go There we go When were you going to say the Bay of Tapestry? Because that is sequential though isn't it The Bay of Tapestry And it's a strip It is It's coming here We're going to get it in the UK We're so excited There are some vases Which are technically a kind of animation I know they're not as old as the cave paintings But there are some ancient Persian vases This is really cool I've never heard of Iran's burnt city unfortunate timing now but there is a place called the burnt city which is an ancient historical site they found a bowl in there which was 5200 years old and it's got these five images on it and if you spin the bowl it shows a goat jumping up and grabbing some leaves from a tree it's like a zoetrope the thing you spin round and round and the animation repeats itself I've seen it, they've rendered it into an animation So that's like the original flip book as opposed to comic strip.
35:16You're right. It is worth that. Yeah, yeah. That's very cool. Do you know where the word cartoon comes from or when it was first used in the UK? Shakespeare? No, after that, it was 1843 and it referred to some things in the Houses of Parliament. Ooh. So they recently put some murals in there. Yeah. And the word cartoon at that time meant like a little sketch you would do on cardboard before you did your big painting. So if you're in Italy, for instance, it was an Italian word. So let's say Leonardo da Vinci wants to do The Last Supper, but first he's going to do a little scribble on his shredding box.
35:52Like to get all the spacing right. Yeah, to get all the spacing right and stuff. So that was an Italian word. And then the magazine Punch used the word to refer to these murals in the House of Parliament that people were able to go and see. and then it became kind of a risible thing because it was a comedy magazine and then they started using the word cartoon to refer to their political cartoons. Oh, that's so cool. Which became big around that time as well and that's why we use it today. Wow. That's amazing. That is very cool. I have another Italian word. The Italian for a comic strip is fumetto which means literally little puff of smoke and it's named for the shape, the little speech bubbles you get in comic strips.
36:28Beautiful. Isn't that beautiful? Say again the word. I think it's pronounced fumetto. Right. F-U-M-E-T-T-O. for metal but it's the little clouds which is very beautiful that's wonderful i was looking into a
36:39James Harkin:few of the major comic strip creators of the 1930s onwards in america when when circulation was like you know it was getting 34 million readers a day because it was syndicated to all the newspapers so these people were amongst the most read in america at the time um lz cigar who we've mentioned before He's the creator of Popeye. This guy died quite young So he did about nine years worth of Popeye, but the cultural impact that it had is massive Most of the illustrators who came after like Charles Schultz and so on hold this guy up as one of the great geniuses Okay So that stuff is kind of obvious But it had an even bigger impact that I didn't realize which is that Popeye was meant to be Mario So in Japan when Mario was first made was never meant to be Donkey Kong and Mario It was meant to be Bluto and Popeye, but they couldn't get the rights to it.
37:29James Harkin:So they had to change it so that it became that. So we could have been playing Popeye cart these days. But actually, it was just simply a rights issue and they had to pivot into making it something else. So literally, necessity is the mother of invention. I read that during the Great Depression, it made spinach consumption go up 33 % as the American children named it one of their top three favorite foods after ice cream and turkey. spinach it really rebranded spinach that's unbelievable branding for spinach isn't it yeah that's quite the bronze position on the podium um there have been a lot of concerns about comics over the years and i'm speaking here more about comic books rather than comic strips like no one's ever been made depraved by garfield in the paper but there were a lot of worries in the 1940s there were even some comic book burnings that happened so a lot of editorials which said they were a national disgrace one American critic called John Mason Brown described them as the marijuana of the nursery I know, there was a big work in 1954 Seduction of the Innocent That was Frederick Wortham, right?
38:33Yes, he was a child psychologist who did a lot of good in his career you know, ensured that a lot of poor or mentally unwell people got fair trials, helped fight mental illness in children, but he had a big be in his bonnet about comics, he decided they were evil He decided that Batman and Robin were an item Which was less socially acceptable In the 40s than it was today Well they weren't an item They absolutely weren't I think he was seeing what he wanted to see there He decided Superman was a fascist Very much not the point And he basically thought they should all be a 15 certificate blanket No exceptions So we have slightly mentioned him before But what I didn't know about him Is he did this sort of like comic books are terrible thing And then a load of right wing people Started giving him money because they really liked the fact that he was trying to censor cartoons and stuff.
39:21But on the side, he was an anti-racism campaigner. And like you say, he was running clinics for mental health and stuff like that. But specifically, he was running them in Harlem, which had a very, very high African-American population. And he was really helping those communities. And so all the money from these right wingers that they thought was going to kind of ban Porky Pig or whatever was actually going to help these hospitals. That's very cool It led to this thing called the comics code Which had all these rules Like if crime is depicted It should be as a sordid and unpleasant activity No lurid Unsavory or gruesome illustrations No walking dead, torture, vampires Ghouls, cannibalism Or werewolfism Guess what year this code lasted until 2020 2025 Is it 200 BC Thank you James it was 2011 the final members of this code people gradually like comic book makers gradually fell away from it but the final members kept going until 2011 you still get that a bit today where like in a movie it's quite rare that you get a film where people do something bad and they don't get caught for it or they don't get you know they don't get the comeuppance somehow do you know what I mean it's quite unsatisfying when you watch it I think so yeah on um you were talking about werewolves and all that kind of stuff.
40:45In 1954 in Glasgow, there was a vampire hunt. And this was basically a load of kids were going around Glasgow trying to find vampires. And eventually it led to the Children and Young Persons Harmful Publications Act of 1955, which banned the sale of comic books with evil characters in it. And what they thought was that people had been reading comics with vampires in and had decided to go around cemeteries attacking people but people pointed out that actually there were no vampire comics around around that time no one had read any right they couldn't point to the one that these kids had been reading but there is a monster with iron teeth in the bible in daniel 7 7 which had been mentioned in local schools around the time and what they think happened was they'd heard this story from the bible they thought let's go and find that person and then the police had said oh they're looking for vampires.
41:41Wow. But it did lead to an actual act of parliament. So it's sort of excess Sunday school is what they're saying. That's what it seems to be. Yeah, ban it. I was reading about Sygna's lovely fact that there were two Dennis the Menace cartoons launched on the same day. So the Scottish one and the American one. But I didn't realise that they think that the reason that happened at the same time was there's a really popular musical song called Dennis the Menace from Venice. Okay. Which I'd never heard that bit before. So we're through Dennis the Menace. so it's
42:09James Harkin:so they may have heard that song and then it was sort of like a catchy name and they developed it I mean it's still it still came out on exactly the same day on both sides of the Atlantic which is absolutely wild it is insane yeah but not that insane if two years earlier there was another character with that same name but the same day exactly I still find it hard to get my head around I still think that must prove something I don't know what it proves simulation theory simulation theory yeah I mean Dennis the Menace we should say which one? which one? British one British black and red spiky hair dog called Nashor all of that doesn't, of course, get slippered anymore.
42:41Does he not? No, if you buy the beano these days, it's very rare to end with corporal punishment, which I just sort of accepted when I was reading it as a child that that was the thing that would happen was that your grumpy mustachioed dad would hit you with the slipper, and that was... That was normal. And it never did us any harm. Do you know that in Dundee we have our big statue in the town centre as Desperate Dan? is it yeah there's a mini the mix next oh that's very cool because that was the other thing we've
43:12James Harkin:mentioned that on the show the um the meat pies that he would eat um they got changed into vegan pies for a while as well cow pies sorry yeah yeah they were changed into veggie um hang on this is my son in here ah it was an observation test so oh here's a tiny tiny fun detail um scrooge mcduck was invented by a man called Carl Barks. The wrong sentence person. It sounds like a cartoon of a socialist dog, doesn't it?
43:46Why don't we all share the bone?
43:51So funny. Turn your tax refund into a new garage door at Minari. Make this the year you check that project off the list. Increase your home's value with a new ideal garage door. From traditional to modern, Menards has a garage door to enhance your home's appearance. Choose from our large in-stock selection or design your own using our free garage door design program. Check out our weekly flyer on Menards.com for all the great deals happening now. Save big money at Menards. okay it is time for our final fact of the show and that is james okay my fact this week is that naked mole rat toilet cleaners have no hope for promotion it's a tough enough gig being a naked mole rat and it's a tough enough gig cleaning toilets for a living yeah but being a naked mole rat and cleaning toilets for a living does feel like you've drawn a bit of a short straw are they only cleaning naked mole rat toilets yes good question that'll take a really long time to do like king's cross station that's such a good point so this is naked mole rats yeah i think one of the poster boys of qi over the years we love naked mole rats uh they're hard-working they're hideous looking they live in africa where we don't um and they live underground and there was a recent study from the journal of science advances that showed individual naked mole rats perform specific duties for their colony okay there's digging transporting garbage cleaning the toilets because they have all these tunnels and some of the tunnels are used for pooing and weeing and the team from kumamoto university in japan they put rfid chips in some of these naked mole rats you know like the ones you get in your oyster cards or whatever or in your credit cards and they managed to monitor these naked mole rats over a certain period and found that they never changed their job so what they think is that basically once you're a toilet cleaner you stay as a toilet cleaner it's not it's still early days whether this is completely right because um it was quite a short survey but that's what they think they are absolutely hideous looking Are we talking about the scientists from Kumamoto University?
46:14I am. But we should say, if you've never seen an egg emora and you're listening to this, do have a little Google because they just are not classically fit animals. They live underground. They live underground. They have terrible eyesight. I know. They've got bad... So it doesn't matter. Is that what you're saying? How does she look? I have no idea. I have no idea. But they've basically got... They're naked. They've got this sort of wrinkly nude flesh. They look like a sausage with teeth Is what the scientists Who work on them say But would you eat that sausage? No I'd have to have gone A long time without a sausage To consider it I wouldn't take that Off the barbecue first Especially not these guys They have such amazing superpowers So like They don't We think they don't feel pain They can survive 18 minutes without oxygen But they can do so many cool things They're incredible
47:01James Harkin:I wonder by the way If the toilet cleaners Are also partial chefs Because Oh dear I hope they wash their paws Well naked mole rats They eat each other's feces And the queens They have a queen Which is an amazing thing Queen of the toothed sausages I think queen is putting it a bit strong Actually That's very unfair They probably wouldn't find you very attractive Andy actually Can he survive for 80 minutes without oxygen Harry Stickman Can this guy shut his lips behind his teeth No he can't But yeah the queen Well, the queen, yeah, she has particular hormones in her droppings. So they'll eat the queens to get sustenance and so on.
47:46James Harkin:But yeah, pooing. So I wonder if the toilet cleaners are sort of going, hey, let's eat this stuff. I feel like I read that by eating the poo, they sort of learn how best to protect her and what she needs. I'm sure in the details. Actually, she can fire her estrogen out in the poo, they think. So when she has babies, she gets a whole load of estrogen in her body. Some of it obviously goes out in the poo. The other naked mole rats eat it and they get estrogen in their body, which makes them better parents. So they can all look after the children together. They live in colonies where there's one sexually active female who's the queen.
48:18There are a couple of sexual males and then there are workers. And it's between like 40 and a few hundred workers. But the queen suppresses the sexual instincts of almost everyone else in the colony. Most adults don't even develop genitalia. All the females have sealed vaginas. the males have immature sperm that could not penetrate an egg and that's thanks to the queen being in position well because the queen it is game of thronesy like the queen isn't born queen
48:44James Harkin:they fight to find who the next queen is yeah so it's like a blood batch they're just killing each other right until the point where the female mole rat becomes pregnant and then that becomes the queen and they just kill the females with the most estrogen just fight and kill each other until one of them establishes enough dominance and then they start giving birth and then it's an amazing process so the first time they give birth it's between one and ten naked mole rat babies pups pups but then every time they give birth their body stretches it's like you've pulled them a bit longer because their spinal column stretches which means they can hold more pups in them to give birth so they end up being able to give birth to 30 oh and they get pregnant every few months they're insane yeah the most insane i can't believe it's taken us 12 years to cover naked mole rats every time i find the naked mole rat facts i just think oh we've probably done them before yeah i know a lot of their brain apparently is devoted to their teeth yeah because it's one of the main ways they experience the world is through their teeth because their teeth are right out in front they're digging a lot and that's why they close their lips feel with them i don't know i don't know if they they can probably sense vibration through them i think so they are really good diggers one quarter of their muscle mass is in their jaws to close their jaws while they're digging they can run backwards as fast as they can run forwards very very slowly is it slowly i think they can whiz around their tunnels but they they live in these huge colonies like the area of a football pitch let's say but with thousands of meters of tunnels underneath uh just imagine looking down on a football pitch from underneath and seeing these sausages firing themselves around through the soil in all these zigzag patterns better than watching a football much for you, Andrea.
50:29James Harkin:One of the things they do, by the way, when they're running backwards, and I guess forwards as well, is they use their hair. So we call them naked mole rats, but they do have hair and they're kind of like whiskers. They're very soft, very thin, but they're kind of like how cats use their whiskers as sensory items. So as they're running through the tunnel, they have tail hair and they have body hair that's allowed for them to sense where they're going. Can we talk a bit about them and air? So Anne briefly mentioned that they don't really need air in the same way that we do. Like oxygen. They're crazy.
51:00Yeah, they can, because they're tunneling underground all the time, they can go for ages and ages in a tunnel, which is, let's say, 5 % oxygen. Normal air is, what is it? 21 % oxygen. Above ground air. Classic air. It's 21 % oxygen. Original full fat air. Original full fat air. But they can live underground in these tunnels, which have very low oxygen content, and they're fine. they've been experimented on they can live for 18 minutes with no oxygen yeah which will kill any human any human did about that you get you do get those um people who can hold their breath for about 20 minutes yeah what remember we did an episode and i think we said that world record for holding your breath was like 23 minutes or something okay you're right you guys are right but i would just say if unless you've done a lot of training yeah 18 minutes without oxygen it's going to be bad for you absolutely related to that as well did you read that when they sleep they like to sort of sleep all together in a big pile like all 300 of them and they think that because they're all breathing out they basically kind of like blanket themselves in carbon dioxide which has the effect of reducing seizures and the paper i read said very clearly this is only for naked mole rats no one else has to try this as a treatment but there's some reason that they think it sort of like slows down their brains and it sort of protects them and even if you give them a big space they will clump together and they described as it's like building a luxury resort and having all of your guests choose to sleep in the same broom closet yeah naked as well
52:29the you were talking about the oxygen and how they survive with little oxygen so i don't really quite understand this but the way it works is our bodies use glucose as energy and that glucose system in your body requires oxygen to work but when they have no oxygen they switch to fructose based system right um i don't really understand this but apparently fructose doesn't require oxygen so you can still get the energy going around your system but you don't need the oxygen as well and that's how plants work that's how plants get energy around them but no other mammal has ever been found that uses this system like the font system they are
53:09James Harkin:very cool it's the missing link it's the in the fossil record between plant and human nick and more on the ground so like maybe they're just like hanging out with the plants that's wild can i ask the i know you said you didn't understand it but the idea of them doing a thing that only plants do is that one of the most interesting biological things that we've ever noticed like is this the great mystery of i don't know i didn't get a massively good response in this room oh are you kidding it's insane it's it's insane that they have everything they do is yeah it's insane they have two operating systems one for backup which no one else has there are other naked mole rats I think there's the what is it the Damaraland mole rat there are a few others but yeah they're very weird the Damaraland ones are quite interesting because they have basically two different types of that mole rat half of them are really really hard working and industrious and the other half are fat and they don't really do any work But those are the ones that do the mating Apparently The busy ones do 95 % of the work But the lazy ones Do almost all of the reproduction Do they?
54:18That's so unfair I know, that's life isn't it? All I say is It's exactly what happens in Naked Mole Rat Holdings
54:30James Harkin:How do you have time to make this show When you have so many businesses on the fly? Every one of them is making a massive loss We should say who first described them scientifically It's quite interesting There's a German scientist who was called Edward Ruppel And he travelled around a lot Sending samples and animals and specimens Back to Frankfurt Which is where he was based Various things are named after him There's Ruppel's Bustard Ruppel's Griffin Vulture Ruppel's Rass The fish, you know Anyway, when he found the naked mole rat He thought, this is so hideous This must be a diseased or a mutated individual from another species The main thing cannot look like this Ironically, it doesn't really get diseases No, you're so right You're so right Yeah, yeah God, is that what we're going to look like if we're truly healthy?
55:25That's true, actually If you get all these squillionaires Who are trying to make themselves live forever They all do end up looking a bit like a naked mole
55:38James Harkin:okay that's it that is all of our facts thank you so much for listening if you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we have said over the course of this podcast we can all be found online i'm on at schreiberland on instagram james i my hedge funds uh can all be found on linkedin come and join me on there james harkins my name andy uh my instagram's andrew Hunter M. Yep. And Anne? My Instagram is at Anne Miller Books. Yeah. And don't forget, it says books at the end of her handle because she has just released her kid's book, which is called Monster Diaries. It's a retelling the Greek myths from the monsters point of view.
56:13This one's the Cyclops.
56:13James Harkin:Yeah. So it's called Monster Diaries, the Cyclops and the worst party ever. It's part of a trilogy. So there's two more coming out. So get it now. It's going to be out very soon. And if you want to get through to us, by the way, podcast at QI.com. We get all your emails there. Andy goes through them. If you're going to send us an interesting fact, that might make its way to our bonus episode that comes out every Monday called Little Fish. If you want to send us an interesting experience or something that's related to something we said in an episode, Andy might pick that out for Drop Us A Line, which is our mailbag episode.
56:46James Harkin:Now that's a secret show. You can only listen to that show if you join Club Fish. That's a Patreon thing, so check out patreon.com slash clubfish. There's so many fun things going on there. It's turned into a real amazing community so go see if you want to join that and uh otherwise why not just come back here next week because we're going to be back again with another episode and we will see you then goodbye
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