159. Managing 40 Properties WITHOUT Using VAs?! Interview with Ariel Smith

23:34That's the goal. That's where we really start making money. That's how most businesses are. It's like, that's our customer acquisition cost. But then it allows us to have a really good portfolio that we're proud of and also to operate more smoothly, for sure.

23:47Natalie Palmer:I want to go back to something earlier. So when you were talking about the co-host network, you said that you've added now like your website is linked there and you really describe like who is the client for you. And now you just mentioned that your ideal client is somebody with an empty house who lets you do the design. So are you finding that? Because earlier you said that now you have people come to you from the co-host network that pretty much know if they're the right fit. So do you have it literally written like, don't reach out to me if your house is not empty and ready to be designed? How picky are you on the leads you want from there?

24:22Yeah. Well, I guess I should backtrack on that a little bit. To me, actually, the perfect client right now for our business is someone that has a really great short-term rental and just wants to bring it over. So it's like you're already operating and you don't have to design it. Yeah, but it is designed well, right? Because it's easy for us to add OS &E, the operating supplies. That's easy, right? I'm like, cool, I could just go do a Walmart pickup order and stock your house. But it's like if they have bad furniture and like bad just setup, like the bed setup is bad right then it's like then it's having to go back and forth of like convincing them why they should spend money on changing it you know especially if they're like we just did it whatever you know so i have had some owners like i one of my owners they did the design themselves and i was like let me see your pinterest board kind of like help me you know and i was like oh you guys and i met them in person and i was like okay you have a great taste like you're gonna do a good job and they did an excellent job, you know?

25:19And so if they're, but that's the anomaly, you know? Like, yeah, most people, their eye for design is not great. So, and it's not just like what looks good. It's what will perform great. You know, I just had an owner. He's like, oh, I have all this furniture. I'm like, great. He wanted to like stuff bunk beds like in every corner of the house. And I'm like, no, you have warm bathroom. Like what? So, you know, it's just stuff like that where we can just optimize it if we do it for them.

25:48Natalie Palmer:Okay. Okay. So then in your profile, are you putting like, either you need to have a good design or be willing to let us redesign it or... Not really. There's actually... Call with us and we'll assess. Yeah. There's not that much you can edit in the profile. So it's kind of mostly subliminal messaging with like our pictures of our properties, the types of properties we have. like we often have owners come to us and say oh i really like your portfolio looks like homes i would want to stay in you know where i really like the way you talk what your reviews say about you they say you guys really respond and that you take care of the properties and we like that or we really like you have guest favorites for almost all your houses like clearly you care you know clearly like i think a lot of our owners the the they're all similar mindset in that they care about their property and they care about the guest which is right you know like they want the guests to have experience.

26:41They want to make money and they want to have the property be nice and taken care of. So we kind of attract that with our portfolio. Um, cause there's not much you can edit. Like you can edit your small descriptions under their bullet points, but you can also choose to say what you do and don't do. Um, and so it's just the way we word things is just kind of like, we're here to optimize your revenue. You know, we're here to whatever those types of things.

27:09Natalie Palmer:Right now with 46 listings, do you feel like you're just getting like word of mouth referrals? Like how much of your customer base is actually still coming from the co-host network? I feel like at a certain point you could just get your own leads. Yeah, we so we were there for what I call the gold rush of the co-host network, which was november of last year Which when the release came out and they pushed the co-host network That was like a true game ginger for our business and I knew it was Like lightning in a bottle. I knew it was never gonna happen again I was like telling cam my husband i'm like We need to work these leads like crazy.

27:47We got inundated when that happened, you know, because I think a lot of owners just didn't even know it was around. And so when they launched the host network and they put it on the front page of the app and they put it in the emails, we got a ton of leads that way. So that built us a good pipeline there. But we've built a realtor referral pipeline over time as well. That has taken a little bit also because we've got to kind of get our brand out there. My husband, what he did before this was he worked for a long-term management company here in San Diego doing business development. So his job was to go to agent events networking events sponsor things for the company and basically schmooze agents to get them to refer their long-term Management business to them So when we were at a certain point of growth where I couldn't handle it anymore I was like, okay, come do that over here for coastline So he goes to all the same events and knows all the same people But now he's pushing coastline for short-term rentals and you will be shocked.

28:44I'm sure it'll happen after this podcast I knew it would eventually but no one is doing this at scale in san diego No one is no one is pushing themselves out there. No one's sponsoring stuff I never see short-term rental companies sponsoring ever It's always long-term rentals title companies mortgage all the ones they always see right and agents are so over that Like, okay, we don't want to see that anymore Like how about short-term rentals and they'll be like, oh, yeah, we have no one like we don't know who to refer this to So we get a lot of leads that way now and now we're starting to get owners buying more properties.

29:18I have four owners that bought new properties this year. Wow.

29:22Natalie Palmer:And automatically you're the one that's going to do it. Yeah. Yeah. What incentives do you give your realtors? Do you do like kickbacks or referral fees if somebody signs on with you for 12 months? Yes. This is another learning lesson where we got kicked in the teeth. We were like, let's give a fat referral bonus. We're like, let's give like, I think we did$3 ,000. Oh shit. Oh my God. If you grant it, they sent us a client. because we were like really trying to get ourselves out there and then you know we we got like two of those and then we had to pay it out and we were like we haven't even earned this much yet paid it out like this is crazy so we we brought it down i think we're doing 500 now i think um but honestly what i realized it's like it's about the relationships it's like we trust it's about who they want to give their client to you know the other big thing is for our our business specifically because my business partners have a real estate team they have to trust us not to steal their client for the sales process.

30:15So we'll do like a, we have a, your listing guarantee is what we call it. So it's like, Hey, if this client, this client is tagged to you in our CRM, if they ever want to buy or sell real estate, we are kicking them back to you. Okay. Fast for fee or anything. Obviously like this is your client. Okay. I'm going to steal your client. That's the big thing they're worried about. Um, realtors are always worried about that. So it's like, once we kind of quelled that fear and put ourselves out there, then now it's like, we're just starting to like, you know, meet people and it's like, hey, I really don't like my management company for whatever reason.

30:48Like, would you, can I talk to you guys or can I give my client to you guys? My client's considering selling, but they have like a really low interest rate just because they hate their management company. Like, would you talk to them? Yeah. We're starting to get those a lot. Yeah.

31:00Natalie Palmer:What are your goals? You're at 46 now. How big do you guys want to grow this? Great question. Well, our original goal was to be at 40 by the end of this year. Oh, shit. You absolutely blew it out of the water. So now we're like, we really need to like make a new goal. I would say, you know, I mean, we kind of just want to shoot for the stars. We definitely want to only be in San Diego. So I'm very passionate about that because again, so easy to operate. You know, I do still have the Arrowhead. I was just going to ask, do you still have the Arrowhead one? Your woman. I'm like trying to off-board it and they like won't let me go.

31:35Please let me find you someone local. So if anyone is local to Lake Arrowhead and is co-hosting, I actually have the perfect girl in mind. Okay, I like that. If someone I can please pass them to. Because it's just so much more work for me, you know? It's so much more work if I can't go, like, get my hands in the property. So much harder to answer questions. So much harder with just everything. Because I'm relying on someone else to communicate something to me. And I know your property is in Big Bear, right? So you, the mountain vendors, it's so hard. They're so reliable. I'm like, did you go to the house?

32:06Oh, no, I'll go tomorrow. I'm like, you have a check-in. Like, what are you doing? Literally, yes. That was crazy. Yeah, that's also why I like San Diego. I feel like it's been a vacation rental market so long and it's a big city, you know? So I never have a problem finding like a cleaner. I never have a problem finding maintenance people. I can Instacart everything in like two seconds to a house. So that's what I love about this. But yeah, it's a really difficult remote. You know, it's definitely possible, but I would need a lot more staff to manage a portfolio that was outside of San Diego. Right now, I think I can probably do like three to one properties in my market of what I could do outside of my market as far as like how many people I need per property.

32:48So I will save a lot on labor as they scale. Sorry, you need three people to service one property? No, I think like one, basically if I have, I can service three times more here than I could remotely. Oh, okay. Okay. Because it's so much easier. If I can get my employee into the property for one hour with me and I can walk them through and show them where the housekeeping cabinet is, show them where people usually run into an issue with a lock, like where the remotes are supposed to be stored, just let them have a tour. That alone is going to save so much because they're going to retain some of that.

33:22And then if they're going to go read through the resources and have to put those pieces together, their brain will remember it. It's like if you've never been there or you can't go there, it's so hard i don't think i was in the air it's been like a year since i've been in that arrowhead property and i used to go more when i didn't have so much here now now it's so hard for me to get up there that's why i'm telling the owner i'm like i'm trying to do the best thing for you i'm like i'm gonna make sure you have a soft landing but as i get bigger here my attention goes this way and i need to focus here and i need to find you so no i literally have the perfect person i'm

33:56Natalie Palmer:an email entry you guys right when this is okay okay um okay ariel tell me so i would love to know more about your like onboarding process so either their design is good or you're designing and becoming familiar with the property you're getting all their supplies you have your 180 point checklist and you standardize that what happens from there like are you the one that is walking every single property or do you guys have like designated runners like i just have so many questions like how even like back to guest communications like okay you're the one picking up the phone but if they have a problem in the property are you also the one like running over there like do you have on and off hours are you going to calls at 10 o 'clock at night yeah i'm going to calls at 10 o 'clock at night so it's either like me or my husband which is hard with the baby or the girl that works for us or i've empowered my cleaning team a lot to be kind of that sometimes.

34:52Like I'll just pay them to go out there, right? I'll say, hey, are you near Windermere? Can you go flip a breaker for the guests? They can't figure it out. That cleaner also knows the property in and out. I'll bet I'll give you 50 bucks and it'll save me way more than paying someone to be like on call, you know, because these incidents are more few and far between, right? But they're so unpredictable. You never know when it's going to pop up. So yeah, it's basically whoever's nearby will go do it. But we have that happen all the time. So pretty much kind of how we're scheduled is like Monday through Friday, we have a nanny.

35:22And so me and my husband are both in the field, right? So either I'm at the office doing whatever back end work or we're both going to properties. So the things we do at the properties is like we buy supplies and we drop them in person to the properties because it basically gives us just another touch point, right? We can kind of inspect things, make sure things look okay. Like my husband just messaged me right now. He was out of property changing camera batteries and he was like, oh my gosh, we need a landscaper. The weeds are crazy here They just like got really overgrown really quickly So those are the kind of things where it's like yeah, my cleaner may tell me but she's doing like so many properties every day And she's not really looking there but he'll notice, you know, and he's like, oh gosh, like Let's get this so we create a new breezeway ticket and then like either he or I is calling that landscaper person and getting them out there one other thing that's really nice with co-hosting is like a lot of my owners like to do stuff like some of them are hands-off but some of them want to manage vendors so that's kind of nice sometimes because they'll just like take stuff off my plate like they'll manage like the spa vendor or the pool vendor i'll be like yo we need a drain and refill on the spa and they'll be like got it and they'll like do it so like they're my virtual assistant sometimes because i'm telling them what's going on so it's really like a partnership in those cases you know and then for the ones where the owner's like more hands-off or just like not available, then we're just doing all that, you know, and like managing vendors.

36:45We try to be super, super, super proactive. Like I tell my cleaners, tell me everything that you would ever think is wrong with this house and tell me any supply you ever want and I'm going to buy it. So I think that's another thing. Like when I talk, I've talked to so many cleaners and they have owners that like won't replace stained bedding. They won't replace ripped bedding. They like won't give them like new sponges and stuff. and so they stop asking you know and so and then they get in trouble when the cleaning reviews come and i'm just like okay fire that person and take more of my properties please but you know we try to like treat them really well you know and like hey we're gonna like enable you and empower you to do your job and to get a good we're all like you know wanting to get these five-star reviews so you have to just like find the right vendors and then empower them to be your eyes and ears and then they'll start like you know it's almost like they get excited like oh oh my gosh, the garage door is not opening here.

37:38I just want to let you know. I'm like, okay, cool. Thank you so much for letting us know.

37:43Natalie Palmer:So you're also like earlier, I want to ask you with guest comms, like you're the one messaging the guests, but if there is an issue with maintenance or cleaner has to come back, you're also the one communicating with the cleaners and maintenance. There's no like, you're not passing that off to somebody else. Right. And that's, I think the secret sauce, because if you were to pass it, it becomes one you have way longer time to resolution just naturally because you're playing you have to convey the issue and wait for someone to respond you know where is that person that you're trying to tell who knows you know so yeah we communicate with like the cleaner or the maintenance person directly and then we're the conduit between them and the guests you know of what's going on and what the update is um it just reduces so much honestly you know of timing because the biggest way to get five-star reviews is obviously provide a good guest experience right that's what everyone wants to do, provide a great guest experience, have a great house, right?

38:37Everything's perfect. Sometimes that can't happen, you know, like things just break or you forgot something, human error, whatever. And it's all just about how you resolve the issue. And that I think is the piece that you lose if you outsource your cons because they inevitably just don't have the urgency probably, or they don't have the resources to actually help them. You know, They don't have the number of the cleaner, so they can't even text them if they want to. They have to text you to text the cleaner and wait for you, but you're on a podcast or whatever. It makes it way quicker. It's as easy as firing off the text.

39:16Like, hey, XYZ, here's what's going on.

39:19Natalie Palmer:so for you like i just want to ask like how long is this like sustainable for you like i could not with a baby be doing the 10 o 'clock runs to flip a breaker yeah just could not be me i commend you like this can't be your like life forever this is this like a temporary like we're hustling while we have momentum but at a certain point you're gonna have to outsource yeah i will outsource And especially because I have yeah, I have to to grow But I don't know if it's funny you I said this on patrick's podcast But you said this a level up your listing on stage You said that oh, we're all going to retire on the beach because we all want to you know build this business sell it and do nothing Just kidding.

39:58We'd be retired for like five minutes True. That's me. That's me. Yeah, like i'm like Always going that's just my personality So it's like if I wasn't doing this I mean I would be renovating a house with my bare hands or something which I have done before like i'm always just like needing to do stuff and I genuinely enjoy it um so but I think as how we're gonna scale is just like basically cloning myself if you will right like looking for people that have a similar mindset um and how they approach things and that are bought into that and then just motivate them with the things that we care about which are just reviews right tie their tie their pay to reviews you know tie their full performance to response times stuff like that that we care about for the business and then you know ultimately you got to let it go a little bit which I will and I've charted to with the girl that works for me um but right now it's just like I have the bandwidth because I I outsource everything else I outsource anything on the back end all I really work on is owner communication, guest communication, and like design and onboarding.

41:09That's it. Okay. And maintenance requests. And running. Yeah. But I consider that guest communication. I don't know. It's all, I mean, it's all kind of part of it. Like that was a thing when I was at Avance Day. They had ops, field ops, and guest communications as two separate teams that never interacted, had different leadership, different KPIs. And that was, I think, a hot mess. Like we had a lot of bad guest experiences because of that. And it's like, I mean, imagine, so imagine for example, like, I don't know, the power goes out, you know, it's like something happened. Maybe it is a breaker, but the guest can't figure it out, but you need someone to go there and do something.

41:51And it's like, okay, if you're separate, I'm the guest comms person. I'm reaching out to XYZ person being like, can you please go over there? And they're like, sorry, I have like four other things i'm doing or like I'm, whatever or like I can get there this time And the guest is pissed right? It's like you then have to go back to the guest and get an earful basically and try to keep them From giving a bad review or blowing up even further So it's like if i'm the person who's hearing that and I can tell how escalated or not they are I can then choose the decision that we're going to make So it's like if I don't have to go out right now, I won't you know, right I ask them, I'm like, do you want me to come out?

42:31And sometimes they're like, no, like come tomorrow. Or like, no, I just want to let you know, come after the stay. You know, but sometimes they're like, yes, please, could you send someone? And then I'm like, absolutely, because that's what you want. I'd say most of the time guests don't even want you there. They're like, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

42:48Natalie Palmer:Yeah. I do agree with that. So how often are you responding, like running out in person to emergency calls? emergency things um i have to check our breezeway but i would say like two times a week maybe it's like not okay it's not okay and then for like restocks whatever a new coffee maker is needed or dropping off new supplies are you just like building that into like between checkout and check-in you like kind of look at your schedule and you're doing that at that time or would you maybe have the cleaner pickup supplies on their way no we do the supplies So basically what happens is like, so the cleaners there say they're like, hey, we're low on toilet paper, paper towels.

43:28They'll put that in Breezeway. So they'll say, hey, we need supplies. So then we see the Breezeway ticket and we're like, great. So we'll move it to the day that there's a turn. You know, obviously unless they're like, oh, my God, we're out right now. So if they are, then we would either bring it to them or Instacart it to them during the clean. So then it's like, okay, great, Thursday. Now we have on the schedule for Thursday, you know, drop off supplies. So then it's like in the morning every morning. It's like we're going through the ops schedule the day and we're saying Okay, what do we have to go to do today?

43:58You know, we're like, okay You need to go change the camera batteries at newton at 11 because there's a guest checkout Um, oh, this is a vacant house. You can go drop stuff now, you know Like and we just like powwow on what's it how the day's gonna go So most days it's just that right and then sprinkled in Hey, there's a guest having an issue. Can you divert and go there? You know, because yeah

44:21Natalie Palmer:So your personal schedule, are you like, you try to do like nine to five every day and then you're obviously on call for messages and potentially running out to the property. But like what hours are you like at your desk, like, I don't know, doing owner comms or doing design work or something? Yeah, pretty much usually like nine to five ish, like eight to four, nine to five, whenever I can. I'll work later for doing an onboard. So we're trying to get a property ready, which lately has been a lot. But yeah, usually it's just like those kind of businessy hours when we're like running around really from 11 to four, right?

44:56That's our turn window. So like that's when we can get in the houses. So it's like, okay, there's no guests there from 11 to four. That's when we can do everything that we need to do between turns. So really that's when we're both like running around and then from there it kind of dies down, you know?

45:12Natalie Palmer:Okay. Could I ask you, so you also said that you're responsible for owner communication. What does that entail? Is that just you like, you know, Hey, the hot tub, you have certain owners that want to do the hot tub or are you also doing like bookkeeping, financial reporting, like setting them receipts and invoicing? Like, where do you, how involved are you with just like communicating with owners? Yes. I'm doing the bookkeeping or like the owner statements. And I am trying so, so, so hard to get rid of it. But I'm trying to find a solution. We're basically going to redo our tech stack right now.

45:44We're shopping everybody. Right now we have Hostway and we use Breezeway. We use Xero for accounting. And so it's been hard to find something that integrates us. I really hate Hostway's inbox. We don't even use it right now. So we're looking at where we can move, you know, to have a better inbox and then either have like third party. Like I'm looking at clearing. I just looked at like VR platform. I'm trying to find something that can do that.

46:09Natalie Palmer:like the specifically for owner communications for just like the um like the financial part of it you know okay well like how much you owe us and like that piece your statements but the actual like day-to-day owner comms come through me so um and i think as we'll scale what i'll probably do in this way are you texting them or calling them or do you have like a whole seat a lot of texting yeah yeah yeah a lot of texting um they get they're used to me now though like how i work like i'll ignore them for like a couple days if like it's not urgent you know i'll be like you know my priority like i had one owner be like do you have enough time for me and i said look let me tell you how this business runs i was like i was like you see how i'm here with you right now for this onboard that we've been working on for like two weeks that's the priority and then once these are finished the number one priority is in-state guests so when i leave and you're like where'd you go why aren't you setting up my amazon stuff anymore i'm like because there's an stay guest issue and i'm gonna do the exact same thing at your property so then it's like then it becomes like you know an order of importance so i kind of like train them how to work with me of like you're not going to hear from me instantly the guests are though and like they're co-hosted with me so it's like funny they'll see me like respond to multiple guests before i text them back while you still owe them a message i'm like i'll get back to you later you know if you're like thinking about which vendor you're going to go to and like we don't it's not urgent you know but I'll read their messages, you know, and I'll like use the unread feature on iPhone, which I love to like keep my little like checklist.

47:40Do I need to get back to, but yeah, it's a little texting. Um, I do have a lot of owners that are more hands-off and I'd also say the longer they're with us, the less they are on me, you know, first they're just like really nervous and like, it's a big investment and like they're either renting it for the first time or they had a bad experience. So then they're trying to like overstock you in OR. yeah or they're just like interested like why do you accept that guest or like why is it priced like this you know and i have to like educate them on how things work so it's a lot of that um but i'm i'm used to de-escalation i was trained on it and i had a lot of experience with it at a month's day so i feel like i just like know how to keep them at bay yeah okay this is my last

48:24Natalie Palmer:question for ariel but um i'm just so curious about the relationship that you have with the realtor or like the real estate agency you work with. So they were already doing full scale property management for like longer term rentals and then brought they wanted like a short term rental division. So brought you in. But it sounds like you really have like you use their office and their branding, but it sounds like you like really own this whole business. Can I just ask? I'm curious, like, what's the division of labor here? Are you paying like, I don't know, franchise cost to them or like paying like rent to like lease the branding or just giving them a commission or a cut of the business?

49:01Natalie Palmer:Or are they happy to just send you clients because they wanted to expand that side? Like what is this relationship like? Yeah. So they actually don't do any management at all. So they're just a sales team. Okay. We don't have any long-term management at all. We refer that out. So we have third party partners that we refer to. So they, I met them at an event when my husband was working at the event for like his company and we're actually all from the same hometown which is very weird and you know they're both like they're there's a couple they have two kids we i have my young daughter we kind of bonded over that and that's how we kind of got talking and they want they wanted to have short-term rentals under their brand because like just to be sticky to their owners like right and keep those relationships so it's like they eventually probably want to have everything right but i'm like i don't i'm short-term rentals you know?

49:52So I'm like, so we're a separate entity. So we're a separate business. Like we have nothing to do with the real estate sales team, except for having basically the same brand name. They're a real estate group. We're co-signed vacation rentals, but we're separate. So like I own this company, they have equity in this company. And so how we set it up, the structure is because I was coming, like I was leaving a corporate job where I had a salary, you know, and like all the things. And so they already have their main source of income, which is the real estate group. So for them, it's more of like a long-term equity investment, right?

50:26And the offering it to their clients to keep them like in-house, you know? And we've already seen a lot of synergy back and forth. Like one of the clients that I have that owns one of our properties was referred by an agent in this office and then subsequently is buying another property with her agent. And it's just like, she's like, oh my gosh, like I love Ariel. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I love Amanda. And like, we're just like, you know, all like family. So it's like, we just have a synergy and like to the clients we're like a brand that's the same but we are separate companies but yeah how we structured it is like until i reach basically my old salary i get all the money so it's all coming to me and then from there what's above and beyond we split so like we split with our equity split so it's like that's how we structured it that i thought was fair because i'm doing most of like the day-to-day um like my husband gets like a salary too because he works in the day-to-day so like those things all like come out of you know what ends up being the owner uh drop yet so it's like it comes to us first fills our bucket up and then we share what's above and beyond that so it's really like as we get like a lot bigger that will be more consistent you know over time of them earning revenue from the business more passively um and then what they do in the day-to-day is like obviously brand they push our brand out a lot like in their normal marketing.

51:49And then they help us with marketing, like back end stuff, like email campaigns and like all that kind of stuff, social, obviously providing the office, you know, it's like that. They pay for my VA. So like things like that, they cover on the back end.

52:06Natalie Palmer:So things like, you know, when you're sending the cleaner, paying her 50 bucks to go do something because she's already in the area. Like, do they, you have full control over that decision or is there any part of them that's just like, well, we have equity in this. Like we don't approve that expense or. No, we're so aligned. And like, that's why it was like, it felt like such a good fit. Like getting a business partner is like a marriage, you know, like you're committing heavily, you know, like we were signing on the dotted line, like, all right, like, what are we going to do with this? You know?

52:36And I think, I think that is like a skill set I've always had. I was decently good at hiring when I was a manager in tech because I can like spot someone that has like a really good like just the character traits, you know. And I feel like we are just like aligned with like how we do business. Like we're all like bullish, but like we also care about the client and like the experience and like things. And I think that's what's great too is like they don't want any part of the day to day. They trust my expertise. And we meet every week and go over the financials. And they provide me a lot more high-level guidance because specifically Ray, who acts as our CEO, he was a CEO of Keller Williams La Jolla.

53:21So he has that experience that I don't have. So he's coming in telling me how to read my P &Ls, telling me what to look out for financially. So he's advising me in that way. And with hiring and strategy and just different things that he's just a helpful sounding board. And to me, like I couldn't even do it on my own because I wouldn't have had like the confidence, you know, like they're like a fallback for me, you know, like I know that like, if we were to like have no money in the bank account, like they would infuse us with money, you know, like just like that, that just allow me to just do my thing and make bold decisions without fear of failure.

53:57So I definitely recommend partnership for people. if you want to go big, work with someone and like fill your own gaps. You know, like there's, everyone has gaps of knowledge or experience and like find somebody who has those opposite skill sets, but that has a very similar character in how they see business. And it's a really good partnership if you can do that.

54:20Natalie Palmer:Well, even down like the fact that you don't charge for design, like when you first said that, I was just like, oh my gosh, like I would be like, no I want to get paid up front for this work like that you know scarcity mindset of like I want to get paid up front for this um and then lock them into a contract but now it makes more sense hearing this like you're right I think it does let you take more risks and be like I'm so confident I'll earn their business over the next year I'm okay doing the design for free and this makes sense you have a whole partnership that's backing you that's doing marketing for you that believes in the company enough that they want equity in it I totally get like how a lot of the decisions that you've gone through, like now makes sense with that context.

54:57Natalie Palmer:Totally. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Ariel, this was so interesting. I'm blown away by how much you are doing all the props to you. I think six units for me was when I said I am done. I cannot message guests anymore. I can't believe you are at what, like 12 times that I'm just absolutely amazed. I am rooting for you to outsource sooner than later. I love your systems. I love what you've got going on, but for your own sanity, get those team members, clone yourself quickly. But this is amazing. And yeah, you really challenged my perspective on the co-hosting network. I might have to re-update that, but I think they closed the doors anyway.

55:39Natalie Palmer:So I guess you caught that lightning in a battle. Now I literally need to like, you know, yeah, keep in there as long as I can. Stay in there. I think they closed the doors. So you're like grandfathered in and just, yeah, keep getting those leads. Thank you so much, Ariel. It was so much fun talking to you. Yeah. Have a good one. Bye. And with that, it is now checkout time. Thanks for listening and I'll see you back here next week. Lastly, as Airbnb hosts, we all can appreciate a good five-star review. So you already know a great review on this podcast would mean so much to me. Please subscribe, review, share, and connect with me in the show notes below.

56:15Natalie Palmer:Bye. Thank you.