180. Why Turnkey Isn't Really Turnkey - Interview with Dawn Asher

23:34Because I don't think that features are not, they do not complete the experience. Those big ticket amenities, that's not what really completes the experience. It's details that you're putting into the home. So my point in saying that is that there can be real sore spots on the property you're inheriting as well. And for them, it was this barn, right? For us with our cabin, we don't have a hot tub yet. We actually don't want it. We would have rather put money into character changing details in the home first before investing 8K in a hot tub that is going to break down. We're constantly maintaining and all that.

24:13It didn't seem worth it to us right now, right? So for them, they inherited this barn that's just kind of like, it needs a lot of work. It needs to be re-envisioned into like a whole different experience. And so we were there to help them with casting vision and getting a real strategy going around that. So yeah.

24:32Natalie Palmer:And in the end, it almost, it sounds like from what you said, there was almost like one foot in on the new story, but one foot out still thinking onto what they had. And that's where the disconnect happened. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So this is why it's like we come back to the same point. Turnkey is never truly turnkey. I don't know if we've actually said that yet. Just because something's fully furnished doesn't mean it's really ready to operate to its fullest potential. And so this is what I find time and time again with client projects just like this. Okay, let me get to what happened with the listing.

25:07We had this photography, this asset. I was co-hosting on their listing and I launched my own listing just as I was finishing out hosting the last previously booked guest on theirs. You following? Yep. Yep. I used their photography. Airbnb flagged it as a duplicate listing.

25:31Natalie Palmer:Yep. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is the biggest rookie move. Here's the thing. My issue that came up with them flagging it, it fell into the hands of a very ill-equipped agent at Airbnb. They did not see the nuance of the situation. I was a new owner taking over and I knew what I needed to do. I needed to shut down my listing and wait to, or shut down the old listing and do all that. And I was like, oh, like, totally, we can do that. No problem. The owner was even like, yep, shutting it down right now. We're good. Even. And at this point, all the bookings had ended. Yes, exactly. Like, like there was one more, but I was at that point, I was like, okay, I'll just let her know.

26:14Here's, we're switching over here. Yeah. No problem. She was very understanding and everything. Okay. So we follow all the rules to take care of it. Right. But that agent just either didn't believe us, did not factor in all of the documentation I provided to prove our ownership, my permit and everything. It was completely shut down within a week of my appeal. I could not get in touch with any. I even got tried to get in touch with Airbnb through the Superhost hotline. I mean, it was just this agent like just would not work with us and I could not reappeal. What I learned was that this is where the inspections matter, not just on the house, but on the previous listing and what you're inheriting from the previous listing.

27:05Back in November, they had a guest that left very angry. They landed, they gave this host like a one-star review. Oh my gosh.

27:17Natalie Palmer:So did the agent think that the new listing was just to like Like, hide the history of that. Okay. Right. And what I learned was that the previous listing had been flagged and given notice that it may be shut down. Oh, dear God. Did the owner know that or were they just so detached, the seller? Were they like kind of detached by that point that they didn't? So they knew. They did not disclose that to me. Now, they were so ready to get out of this. they also probably thought like that's not going to affect on she's starting her new listing but the problem is fair I think I almost would have thought the same thing even with all my experience with Airbnb I'd be like as long as you show them you're a new owner and here's this like why would that follow you right right and it's like with the the it's like the real problem it's like there are so many problems here I was attached to that listing as a co-host oh my god it's like Honestly, I'm just like, I'm like, this is, it's, it's just, yeah.

28:18There are so many things that I could say, I would have, I should have. But honestly, like, I just, I wouldn't have thought. And I don't think that. Well, shit, earlier I hyped you up that that was a great way to transition it and be the co-host. Maybe I spoke too soon. Here's the thing. It is as long as you are doing your, you are doing your background check on that other listing and putting that into a contract that like if anything comes up along the way that that previous owner is still responsible for now taking care and resolving those issues, right? So what I ended up doing was like scurrying like crazy and rushing my own branding process, which I hated doing and got over to the property and did a whole refresh practically overnight and and got it shot and it looks amazing and I mean like basically you needed new photos so that you

29:13Natalie Palmer:weren't using those other ones that yeah exactly flagging exactly yeah yeah so so yeah I I got a new listing up with my new photography which see this is where at the end of the day like it's almost like my process was would have been fine with with the original intent like launch it as is, do the work that I want to do to it, take the time I want, then reshoot it. But the reality is I'm so happy. I can't believe I'm saying this right now because like two months ago, I was like in tears. Like I am so happy that it is what it is now. And this is what is out in the world because this is truly reflective of the intention we had for our guests and this experience.

30:00Natalie Palmer:And so wasn't the entire story of this property supposed to be a place to go when everything feels like it's failing? I can't even literally it's so meta. No, I know. I was like, I'm eating those words like in real time right now. Like I am making the, the biggest charcuterie board of my life out of these lemons. So I want to ask you that review, the really negative one in November. Do you remember the exact content of it? I'm curious that what I want to get out here is, was it critiquing the property or was it an issue with like the management or the cleanliness? Because I wonder if it was something bad with the property.

30:39Natalie Palmer:Did you guys like inherit a negative problem there? Yes, we did. And we were fixing it like in December. And it was the stove, the oven. It was disgusting. It was done. It needed to be replaced. And that was always clear from the beginning. That's not a massive replacement. and it was like$600. So we were already on it. So honestly, by the time we got to like our December booking, our like Christmas booking, we had already replaced it. But that November guest experienced the old oven and that is what he reported. I imagine, I think he might have, I guess, reported them, not just gave the... So that was the Airbnb was threatening to possibly shut down that listing over an oven?

31:23Natalie Palmer:Well, like that's not like an issue to the foundation or like something structural. You can just buy a new appliance. Right. So it's possible they had other flags in the past that had built up and we just like weren't aware. I mean, the thing is, Airbnb could only also disclose so much to me. So, yeah. So it's like, oh, what's the, you know, there's like, this is like saucy story, but that was the review when they did tell me about it. They're like, it was that review that actually sent through a flag on the, on the listing. So, yeah. So what you're inheriting isn't just the furnishings, right?

32:05There is so much more that you need to be. There's a whole history to the property. Right, right. Exactly. Exactly. And so, yeah, I didn't, I didn't really care to inherit that guest either. And those reviews and I, I, I knew that the, that the listing didn't have a super high score. And so already I was, I knew that I was going to start a new listing regardless, but yeah, I think that like the biggest thing I think that is the biggest blind spot for buying turnkey is that you think because you could get it launched faster, that it doesn't require real sole work. And if you really want a vision for your property, whether it's starting from ground zero and you're building an entirely new property or you're buying a property that's a blank space, it doesn't matter where you are.

32:56This is where rubber meets the road when it comes to hosting from a really authentic place. It has to be soul work. And so if you don't really, if you go into buying a turnkey property, but you think I'll just go with what they were doing, then your current, the guests that you bring in, it's not really going to reflect, if it's not going to reflect who you are and the posture that you come from, then they're not going to really like feel the sense of your care and intention. It doesn't mean you can't use what the old host had and what was in the property, but what's your secret sauce that you're bringing to the table that is really going to make it your own?

33:44And so I just think that there's two things. Clarity can't wait, and this is soul work. So you have to start, I think you have to start fresh from the beginning, getting into this, knowing what's your story, knowing who is it that you want to attract, whether it's the previous audience or a newer audience or just an evolved audience, evolved traveler. But you have to know your true north from the minute you purchase that property. It's not the minute that you launch. It's the minute you've even started exploring the property really and considered in the buying process. Because it's having that true north, having that brand.

34:23I mean, what we do is we design the very beginning of all of our process is a branding guide. And that branding guide actually tells this entire story. We don't do anything with design, amenities, any of your media content creation until we've actually started with a real branding guide that tells the story of your property because it has to be, you need a blueprint, just like you wouldn't build a house without a blueprint, right? So yeah, I think those are definitely two of the biggest, I think, overlooks of buying turnkey. Yeah.

34:55Natalie Palmer:Now that you've been on this side of it and purchased a turnkey property. Do you have any advice for somebody who maybe wants to sell a short-term rental and is thinking of selling it like with existing assets? Maybe they've already built a direct booking site and have a social media following and have the logo and the great photos. Is there a way that you think gets you closer to selling like a truly turnkey property or do you think pretty much any new buyer is going to have to do this work you're talking about? I think it depends. I mean, social media following also doesn't necessarily mean engaged travelers, right?

35:34True. So your logo, like you could have a logo, but is it good? I mean, so you, and again, does that logo have potential for the future buyer to really do something with it? So I think it's less about checking boxes. I do think that when you are selling, and this is actually something I've blogged about, is that if you are selling, you're not just selling the actual property. What are the other assets that you can sell with it? Can you sell your photography with it? All of these other assets, but they have to be meaningful assets, right? So that's why I said, even if a property has high occupancy, does it have a high ADR, right?

36:17So it may show on paper, oh, they're fully booked. But what if they were booking it at like$100 a night? So it's like you really have to look a lot. As the buyer, you need to look a lot deeper, take all of those assets and truly throw them through, like truly audit them. So as an owner selling, you have to know that like, OK, you may be showing all these assets and putting them on the table, but what are they really going to be worth? So I think that I think it's absolutely in your best interest. Whenever you're designing any STR, you have to be thinking about your exit strategy. So if you're not doing the full, the whole picture work of experiential marketing, when you go to sell, you will struggle.

37:02Like you will have a harder time if you're not selling with a whole picture approach.

37:08Natalie Palmer:Can you give us some, and this is a lot of what we talked about the last episode you did was like some case studies of like clients you've worked with and how you've actually helped them tell their story. But now that you've been the one in the driver's seat and it's your property, can you give us some like examples, like maybe like give us like three big changes that you did make to this quote unquote turnkey property to get it ready for the photo shoot? Like what, what is the story of this new property now? Right, right. So one of the things that we did was we instantly brought in like a Victrola record player.

37:41Okay. Small update, but it is absolutely a part of the whole experience. The way that we've put the place that we've positioned it in the home, we are buying all our records from a local record store in LAJ. Okay. So we're connecting our travelers to the local experience instantly. And we're also guiding them back to that shop, right to do their own perusing their own their own so there's messaging around that like there's no

38:08Natalie Palmer:way the person would think oh they just bought these off of like amazon or they had them already how are you communicating like that local tie-in and that it came from that record store right we're doing that not only through our social media in our social media presence but in our pinterest we're doing that in even in our listing so we'll say we've got a brand new victrola record player. And by the way, you know, Victrola is like one of the best brands you can get. The sound is incredible. Like we went with speakers that you could connect with Bluetooth to your own, to your own phone to, and, and to the, to the record player.

38:42This isn't like a Crosley record player. Yes, it is not a prop, right? It means that the sound is actually going to be far more immersive in the space. Right. So, so that's one of the things is that like, that's actually a true, like centerpiece and the layout of the property makes it so that you can be cooking in the kitchen, singing to your favorite record spinning with a wooden spoon in hand, like a microphone. I mean, we highlight, we tell those little moments and in all kinds of places on our direct booking site. We launched with a direct booking site, by the way. So we did not - Thank God.

39:21I know.

39:23Natalie Palmer:Well - You can't be careful. Yes, totally. And I will say, I mean, that's a huge thing I've left out is that it was a reminder. I mean, I knew I was doing that from the beginning. I wasn't going to depend on Airbnb. But we're working with Logify and have had a really great experience and felt like their direct booking site was a layout we could work with. And yeah, it had what we needed to launch with a direct booking site.

39:49Natalie Palmer:Are you ready to take your short-term rental from side hustle to serious business? With Logify, you can stop managing chaos and start scaling smart. From automated guest messaging to syncing all your bookings in one calendar, Logify gives you the power to grow without burning out. Take control of your future as a host. Use my code NOVACANCY20 for 20 % off any yearly Logify plan. The link is waiting for you in the show notes.

40:18Natalie Palmer:I didn't even ask Don to say that. And Logify is one of our sponsors. Oh, really? Oh, my gosh. I didn't know. We love them. I love them. By the way, quick plug for Logify. The reason I love them and why I went with them is I love what they're doing with their brand and storytelling. You go to their Instagram and it's not just like this flashy tech graphics everywhere. It's just like they're actually telling stories. They've got like a series they're doing, like a hosting series they're doing. They do these great like traveler man on the street interviews and stuff. I mean, they're just they're acting like a studio.

40:52And that's really what we need to be doing as hosts. We are truly entertainment providers. So we need to be acting like a real media business.

41:03Natalie Palmer:So I'm actually so happy you said that, too, because Logify, they're sponsoring our VIP brunch at Level Up Your Listing this year. I'm looking forward to that. And we were asking them like, OK, so what do you want to do? It comes with a speaking slot and it's like, okay, do you guys want to just do a demo on new features or something like that? And they were very, very adamant. Like, nope, we don't even, they're not even having a Logify rep on that panel. They asked that Tatiana and I moderate it. And they're basically bringing four like customers that are using the product really well for their brand and their direct booking.

41:36Natalie Palmer:And they were like, all we want to do is share successful like case studies and like show off hosts. So everything you're saying I can confirm is like very true. They were like, we don't even need to talk about our features. Like, we think they speak for itself. We just want to highlight hosts that are like using the product the way it was intended. Right. And it's because it's their values. The value is not in tech. The value is in like the human connection and the traveler experience. Right. So, yeah. So that's why. Yeah, that is why I went with them. But yeah, some of the other features that we did.

42:07So the other things that we did was we really just kind of took what was in the property in the kitchen. One thing I'm doing here that it's like it's more of like a this is more of a slow rollout. I actually gave hints to my traveler audience of what we are doing with the property, what we plan to do and where this is going. Now, food is a big part of my life. And that's always been a very central part to my hospitality. I started one of my starts in my career was all in experiential events and meal experiences, chef-inspired story experiences at the table were always a part of the work that I was doing.

42:47And so one of the things that I've hinted at in my listing is where we're going to be going with hosting pop-ups. So we will be hosting pop-ups on our property at the cabin where we will actually Yeah, we will be partnering with local makers, whether it's the wine and cheese shop or a local apple orchard. Those experiences, the record shop even, like bringing music into these pop-ups. Every pop-up will be its own unique experiential design forward and really just interactive experience. This is what I do, right? So I'm already giving travelers a glimpse of what's coming. And this is where travelers love a transformation.

43:29story. So in this case, in this detail, I'm not even doing anything new to the property. I'm, what I'm doing is I'm building up the story and I'm building up what's to come and building anticipation. Who doesn't want to come stay somewhere once when it's already in a beautiful place and then know, oh my gosh, like I could see myself coming back already because they're going to be doing X, Y, Z, right? So that's one of the things that I have implemented into the property is just what's to come. So then what I am doing is I'm doing, I did a lot of shooting in the kitchen to set up moments, curated moments.

44:09So a lot of, I did a lot of like styled moments in the kitchen to feature some of our premium, our premium kitchen tools, like, like an Our Place everyday pan. We did implement a fellow coffee maker that's just really beautifully done. We set up a lot of these moments. I even implemented, again, these aren't huge, but I put in like a, it's actually a handmade herb stripper. Have you ever heard of this before?

44:37Natalie Palmer:This is like to get like rosemary and stuff off the stems, right? Right. Okay. So I have a dear friend here in Los Angeles who has her own pottery company. She just launched. And she has this beautiful herb stripper that's actually in the shape of like an avocado skin. I brought that with me, flew it over to Georgia and it is in the property. So I set up a styled moment with that herb stripper, rosemary kind of scattered about with this rosemary focaccia bread from the local bakery. It's called everything. I'm high, high mountain bakery. So you see what I'm doing is I'm not necessarily implementing all new styling and decor.

45:17What I'm doing is I'm implementing partnerships from the very beginning and I'm implementing what's to come. So I'm building anticipation of what's to come because the reality is I can't host pop-ups right now across country, right? So I'm getting that going. So that I would say is the second most significant update that we've done. There's more that I'm going to be doing. I honestly don't want to release around food, but I'll just give you a hint. It will include a YouTube series.

45:44Natalie Palmer:So just hold on that. But that's something I've been developing for a while. So I'd say, OK, again, like that's the second implementation. Like what would be the OK, I would say the third implementation is I set up a child listing. I set up a child listing already that is specifically for couples. And so we have this property now listed as a couple's retreat. And what we're doing is we're making small changes to the primary bedroom that essentially make it feel like it's its own retreat in itself. The reason I'm doing this is I already found that half of my bookings have already been couples and single travelers, solo travelers who are just coming with their dogs.

46:32So they're renting the whole property, even if they're only using one bedroom. If I know that the house is already attracting solo travelers and couples alone, then I see a potential for that one bedroom listing. And because now we're going to find, now we're going to capture travelers who are just searching one bedrooms, right?

46:56Natalie Palmer:When you have someone book it that way, are you blocking off part of the property? or and do a second bedroom. Okay. Okay. And is that like a cheaper cleaning fee that you're doing? Like what are the main differences? Yeah. Yeah. Smaller cleaning fee, the second bedroom upstairs in the, in the, there's a loft space, but then there's a bedroom across from the loft. That bedroom will just be closed. Yeah. Okay. And then what, and then we say, if it's, if it's going to be, if it's tampered with, then we will need to charge you for, for the whole, the whole cleaning fee. But now I've taken that child listing and the story has been tweaked.

47:29Okay. So now I'm talking to couples and solo travelers who, who want that intimate experience, but have this expansive space. And, and I'm really talking far, talking up way more like that. The primary bedroom leads out to this. They have their own private entry to this beautiful forest deck. That's one of the biggest features of our property is this, this forest deck. So, so yeah, we have a mini, an Apple HomePod mini in the primary bedroom as well. So it's even a small detail like that is a real feature for couples who may be just spending more time there and having their own mini retreat. So I'd say in some ways, it's like the biggest thing.

48:11I mean, other things I've done is like, I've swapped out artwork. We swapped out all bed sheets and we were doing like all like Egyptian cotton across all the beds. We, I mean, there's a lot that we did still turn over because this property was, it had its own like details that did, that definitely needed a swap. But yeah, it's like, I think for sure the artwork we've swapped out, the details I've put in, like the herb strip and all that, it's building character. But if you're wanting me to identify and call out like three updates that are just very tangible, Well, those are the three I would say.

48:49Two of those is really just positioning. Nothing was like knocking down walls or letting you backsplash. Right. Yeah.

48:57Natalie Palmer:No, and I think that those are perfect examples because like you said, like it was a turnkey property, but it missed the mark as far as like character and like really conveying to someone why they should book this place and why they should come back. So I think that those examples are like perfect. Like you don't have to knock down walls or come with a sledgehammer. Right. And like those two other updates, like I was saying, if they're just positioning, well, how did I get to that positioning? It all started with the branding guide. I didn't skip that, by the way. Like that, I did that for myself as well.

49:32I don't just do that for clients. I knew when I launched this property that like that is a crucial, that is an essential part of this process. And I would not have maybe thought of those two positioning components had I not done this blueprint groundwork going into the property.

49:52Natalie Palmer:Dawn, would it be okay if we linked your listing in the show notes? Yeah. I feel like as you're describing this, I know I want to go now and look through the photos and see these moments you've crafted. And I'm sure listeners will want to do the same. Yeah, for sure. I know. I would love that. But also, I would say one other detail is think about how you're entering and when you're entering. We entered in like really slow season. So, you know, the bookings actually like a lot of the bookings that we're getting is like future May, June, July. So that's been really interesting, just learning a lot more about how slow.

50:25So, I mean, we're actually just prior to hopping on here, we got a booking for tomorrow. And it's going to be really cool now to kind of see, OK, now this is actually one of our first guests who have booked based off this or our first booking like for very current season get to experience the property when like it's not fully green but the the home itself like has just has so much character and love that we've put into it so i'm excited for that whereas like our may june july guests they're like they're gonna get they're gonna get that's the that's when high season really takes off so they're gonna get the full picture environmentally yeah

51:02Natalie Palmer:oh my gosh well I love listening to you like just talk your your passion for all of this just like oozes out of you it's so fun to listen to you but yeah I'm excited to take a look at the listing myself and we'll link it here if anyone's curious like me and wants to see the the photos and how it all came together but I think this was a really useful conversation on just going into a turnkey purchase with like a more realistic picture and it's not I mean if you're willing to share. Can you tell us like about how much you ended up spending not on the property itself, but on the refresh you did? Like if somebody buys turnkey, how much should they budget for just making it more personable like this?

51:46Well, I say that in general, like when you're doing a refresh to any property and what you're, what I call more of like a styling finish. Sure, it may have all the bedding and maybe it's got some artwork or whatever, but like it's kind of pretty bare bones and there's just no character. You don't really know like what's theming here. Like what is, who are we going after? Who do we care about in this property? Styling finish. I say that per bedroom, you're looking at at least five to 6K for that, those additional layers of

52:15Natalie Palmer:materials. Five to 6K per bedroom. Per bedroom. And areas, how do you account for that living room or backyard? But sorry, that's what I, I'm basing it off of like the whole home. So it was like, if it's a three bedroom, like imagine you're going to spend at least like 15K, 15 to 20K on the whole property, giving it that other layer. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. Okay. That's kind of my, my calculation. And this property pretty much landed around that. It's a two bedroom. And of all the details that we've implemented, we're not even really done. We've spent about 10K in, in those little updates. Yeah. And I say little, but you know, not a little.

52:50Natalie Palmer:Yeah. Yeah. And then if you add the hot tab, like you said, that'll be another eight to 10 ,000, but just the, the The refreshed touches. I like what you called it. What was it? A styling finish? A styling finish. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And also, by the way, I may not even do a hot tub. Like I'm talking to other hosts about this and like there are lots of hot tubs in the area. One, many, plenty of properties with them, but they come with so much maintenance. They are a, they are a money suck. I might consider a sauna. Our forest deck is one of, that is one of the things that actually like lit, I mean, completely lit me up the second I went out.

53:23When you check into this property, and this is one thing I always tell guests from listing to our correspondents, first thing you need to do is drop your bags and head straight out to the forest deck. Because when you're checking in around that three or four o 'clock, depending on the time of year, the sun is setting through those trees and it is just glorious to see the sun peeking through. And I spent probably the first two, three hours in that property, the first day I stepped foot on the property, just sitting in the forest deck, like looking through, looking through the trees at the light.

53:56There are deer everywhere. That's another part of our story. I mean, there are truly deer everywhere, even in the winter. And that is what brings some, those were assets that came with the property that weren't even furniture. Yeah.

54:11Natalie Palmer:Wow. Yeah. Oh my gosh, so magical. I can't wait to look through it. Yeah. So I'm saying maybe I just do a sauna because it's like sauna allows you to still enjoy that view. You buy it once, not going to have the kind of maintenance that a hot tub would. And then you get to sit in the sauna and still get that same feeling, getting to sit out on the deck when it's freezing. Yeah. I love that. And if that's what works, maybe the data will say, If you dig into whatever different data platform you use, maybe it'll tell you like, oh, you really need a hot tub here, but you clearly know your audience better.

54:47Natalie Palmer:Exactly. AirDNA isn't going to account for the storytelling. Yeah, totally. If you know that Asana works better or who knows, there's so much running now. Do like a red light therapy room or something. Yeah. And Betsy Ma, by the way, who's also in our Talk With Tuesday group, and she's been partnering with me from the day I launched the Olive Jar. She's been amazing. She's a co-host. And she was the one who was like, OK, if it's slower right now, but you're getting couples maybe in this region, like couples are more willing to hop away for a weekend and get away. And it's easier after the holidays, whereas like families, it's like it's a lot more work after all the holidays to to to want to get away, to get away.

55:26And so I'll I'll know more by the end of next year, but I just have to be patient. So she was she was the one who really prompted that that prompted launching that child listing now. So while I was always in my vision, she was like, no, go now, right? Because we could capture some couples right now.

55:44Natalie Palmer:I know it's still very early and you just launched, but are you noticing one listing outperforming the other already? Or has the bookings been kind of 50-50? No, our four, sorry, the two-bedroom listing is still higher performing. I think part of that is that I did so much work to get so many more eyeballs on that one. Whereas the, where the child listing, I've only started getting that out to people. So, hey, if you're listening, if you could heart and save both listings. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. So I think like I got to do more work on the child listing to actually just get more visibility.

56:23Yeah. Yeah. So you're truly finding me in process. Oh my gosh, I feel so vulnerable. I'm going to get off this and I'm going to have like a vulnerability hangover. I know I will. Oh, my gosh.

56:33Natalie Palmer:Oh, thank you so much. I just yeah. When you sent your email newsletter about the process of buying turnkey and how it wasn't all it's cracked up to be, I was like, I think that would be a really interesting podcast topic. And yeah, no shortage of ups and downs, even when you think that you're going the easy route and getting a property that's ready to launch. Clearly, that's the case. So I know very realistic expectation. Right. And this is like all I can. I mean, we're moving cross country. That was the other thing. I was like, Like we're in a big life pivot. As much as I would love to have my own property and design it from floor to ceiling right now, it's like practically speaking, like I need to go with something turnkey.

57:10So it made sense for us. So that's another part of this puzzle. Yeah, yeah. Anyway.

57:17Natalie Palmer:Thank you so much. Will, I'm seeing you at Level Up, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Okay, I'll see you in a few weeks then in person and then you move. Oh my God. I know, I'll still be back. I'll still be back. We'll be traveling a lot, but yeah. Well, thanks again, Dawn, for coming back on the podcast. And you guys, I will link the previous episode she's been on, plus both listing links in the show notes so you can go check those out. Thank you, Dawn. Thank you for having me. And with that, it is now checkout time. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you back here next week. Lastly, as Airbnb hosts, we all can appreciate a good five-star review.

57:51Natalie Palmer:So you already know a great review on this podcast would mean so much to me. please subscribe review share and connect with me in the show notes below bye