Beethoven's Immortal Beloved, Part 1

15 Jul 2025 · 30 min · 9 chapters

Ask about this episode

Ask anything about it. ChatGPT or Claude reads this page and answers with the times it was said.

Connect VO and ask about every podcast you hear, including the moments you saved. Add to ChatGPT · Add to Claude

In short

This episode of Noble Blood (“Beethoven’s Immortal Beloved, Part 1”) examines Ludwig van Beethoven’s famous love letter, discovered at his Vienna estate after his 1827 death, and the long-running mystery of who “the immortal beloved” was.

Key claims

the letter was likely written in 1812 while Beethoven was in the spa town of Teplitz, with “evening Monday, July 6th” and plans to post it to “K” (generally Carlsbad). The episode argues the letter may not be purely romantic, reflecting Beethoven’s depression, hearing loss, and possible renunciation.

Notable examples

Beethoven’s “Moonlight” Sonata (Op. 27 No. 2) dedicated to Giulietta Giucciardi; his dedication of Piano Sonata in F-sharp major (Op. 78) to Therese von Brunswick; and the “Diabelli Variations” (Op. 120) dedicated to Antoni(e) Brentano.

Guests

none are interviewed in this transcript.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

Beethoven's Love Letter

0:44 to 2:28

Exploration of the famous love letter from Beethoven to his 'immortal beloved'.

“In the morning, my angel, my all, myself.”

The Mystery of the Immortal Beloved

2:28 to 4:18

Discusses the mysteries surrounding the identity of Beethoven's beloved and the letter's history.

“This is largely thanks to the sheer number of enticing mysteries that the letter presents.”

Candidates for Immortal Beloved

4:18 to 8:00

Overview of various candidates proposed to be Beethoven's 'immortal beloved'.

“The Immortal Beloved letter did not initially seem like an enticing mystery.”

Context of Beethoven's Life

8:00 to 9:51

Details about Beethoven's life, challenges, and personal circumstances during 1812.

“decades, and he dedicated the piece we're listening to now to her, his Piano Sonata in F Sharp Major, Op.”

Unraveling Beethoven's Travels

9:51 to 14:00

Investigation into Beethoven's travels and how they relate to his love letter.

“Beethoven also references his intention to send his letter by post to K, which historians generally believe he was using as an abbreviation of Carlsbad, another resort town.”

Exploring Beethoven's Immortal Beloved

14:00 to 30:05

This segment delves into the identity and implications of Beethoven's Immortal Beloved, focusing on candidates and their relationships with him.

“to have elicited such impassioned writing.”

Exploring Beethoven's Immortal Beloved

30:09 to 30:23

This segment delves into the identity and implications of Beethoven's Immortal Beloved, focusing on candidates and their relationships with him.

“Now available in Canada and the UK, too.”

Introduction to Survivor Files

30:23 to 31:26

Hear Elizabeth Smart share her story and the stories of other survivors.

“I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.”

Beethoven's Immortal Beloved

31:26 to 32:43

Explore the candidates for Beethoven's Immortal Beloved and their significance.

“Baroness Therese Malfatti was another candidate who historians more or less ruled out as the enigmatic immortal beloved.”
Hear the part that matters, and keep it.Open this episode in VO. Double tap your headphones to save a moment as you listen.
Get VO free

Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

0:31Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts. Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manke. Listener discretion advised. In the morning, my angel, my all, myself. Only a few words today, and indeed with pencil, with yours. Only tomorrow is my lodging positively fixed. What a worthless waste of time on such. Why this deep grief when necessity speaks? Can our love exist but by sacrifices? By not demanding everything? Can you change it that you not completely mine? I am not completely yours. Oh God, look upon beautiful nature and calm your soul over what must be.

1:22Love demands everything and completely with good reason. So it is for me with you, for you with me. This is a translation of the opening of one of the most famous love letters ever written, which was composed by arguably the most influential romantic composer who ever lived. You might have heard of him, Ludwig van Beethoven. Ten small pages hold the trove of passionate and conflicted feelings that he scribbled one summer in old German script, with, as he noted, the very pencil he borrowed from the intended recipient of his letter. That recipient is addressed later in his emotive outpouring only as his, quote, immortal beloved.

2:17Beethoven wrote his message to his immortal beloved in three parts over two days, and there seems to be no proof that it was ever actually received. The multi-part letter was discovered at Beethoven's estate in Vienna after his death in 1827, and over the course of nearly 200 years, it has become one of the most hotly contested documents in all of Western music historiography. This is largely thanks to the sheer number of enticing mysteries that the letter presents. First among them, who was the immortal beloved? Beethoven did not actually ever use his intended recipient's name. Beethoven was never married, and by all accounts, he had a fairly disastrous love life.

3:15Nevertheless, there is ample evidence that he became enamored with several countesses and women of high social status throughout his adulthood. And by analyzing clues in his personal writing and the correspondence of others, scholars have put forth multiple compelling candidates as to who might have inspired such an ardent first draft of amorous feelings. But maybe Beethoven's music holds the answer. You've been listening to Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 30 in E Major, Op. 109. Multiple musicologists and biographers claim that this piece, through both its composition and dedication, not only highlights a link between the composer's personal life and his creative work, but might hold the clues as to the true identity of Beethoven's Immortal Beloved.

4:17I'm Dana Schwartz, and this is a very special musical installment of Noble Blood.

4:29The Immortal Beloved letter did not initially seem like an enticing mystery. The letter was first published in 1840 after the composer's death by Beethoven's former secretary, who claimed that Beethoven wrote it in 1806 to Australian Countess Giulietta Giucciardi, a former piano student of his, while he was taking the waters at a Hungarian spa, quote, on account of his gradually increasing deafness. Besides the part about Beethoven suffering from hearing loss and being at a spa, almost none of those other details would prove to be accurate. The likeliest spa Beethoven was recuperating at wasn't even a Hungarian one.

5:16Beethoven had neither dated his letter nor specified his location at the time of writing. As later revised statements revealed, it seemed probable that Beethoven's secretary had simply guessed at and inserted the date and made other assumptions. Researchers later pointed out that by 1806, Julieta was married and living in Naples. As we'll soon discover, a woman being married might not have been a total deterrent in terms of Beethoven expressing heartfelt sentiments. However, Naples was simply too far from any of the spas that he did visit in the summers for her to be a plausible candidate. But Julieta, that former noble piano student, is still an important figure in Beethoven's history.

6:06She is the dedicatee of the song we're hearing now, Beethoven's wildly famous Piano Sonata No. 14 in C-sharp minor, Op. 27 No. 2, that was originally titled Quasi Una Fantasia. Now it's more popularly known as his Moonlight Sonata.

6:31The next widely proposed immortal beloved candidate was actually Julieta's cousin. Countess Therese von Brunswick was from a noble Hungarian family, and she was also a piano student of Beethoven's. The fact that Therese and her siblings had grown extremely close with their renowned teacher was well established. The key question was whether there was any romantic connection between Beethoven and Therese that could have reached such a fever pitch. Some of the details present some compelling arguments. Like Beethoven, Therese never married. Interestingly, Beethoven kept a favorite portrait of Therese at his estate until he died.

7:16And then, astonishingly, in 1890, a published account detailed a secret betrothal between the two in 1806. Case closed? Well, no. That specific account proved to be a forgery. Eventually, many of Therese's letters and diary entries were found, and they did reveal several supposed affairs. But regarding Beethoven, although she wrote about him on several occasions with deep, friendly affection, there was no evidence to claim a strong romantic attraction from either side. Nevertheless, Beethoven apparently kept in touch with Therese over the course of multiple decades, and he dedicated the piece we're listening to now to her, his Piano Sonata in F Sharp Major, Op.

8:1178, composed in 1809. Biographers subsequently proposed more countesses and socialites as immortal beloved possibilities. In the 20th century, a few tidbits of speculation even trickled out that the intended recipient could have been a man. There is perhaps no way to incontrovertibly rule that out, but virtually all the most thorough research on Beethoven's life, patterns, and relationships at the time points to the addressee of the letter being a noble or high-status woman. The key relationships in question often originated in teacher-student and or artist-patron dynamics that then purportedly sparked feelings in Beethoven that grew stronger.

9:03But rather than just focus on his known social circles, some scholars have focused on the letter itself, trying to find more clues to discover who its recipient might have been. One especially critical clue was that Beethoven starts the second part of his letter, quote, evening Monday, July 6th. By looking back at years when July 6th fell on a Monday, and cross-checking travel documents and other correspondence, the situation comes into better focus. It's now widely accepted that Beethoven wrote to his immortal beloved in 1812 while in the spa town of Teplitz in the Austrian Empire. Beethoven also references his intention to send his letter by post to K, which historians generally believe he was using as an abbreviation of Carlsbad, another resort town.

10:10These details give a more precise sense of Beethoven's whereabouts, as well as his artistic status and internal struggles at the time. To start with some broader personal and career context, 1812 was at the end of what musicologists later deemed Beethoven's middle or heroic period, in which his compositions often tended toward a grand style and innovated upon classical forms. Right now, we're listening to the first movement of Beethoven's Symphony No. 8 in F Major, Op. 93, which he began working on in the summer of 1812. Although it didn't receive glowing acclaim at its premiere, critics, audiences, and other composers have since extolled the beautiful, witty, and masterful manner in which it both recalled the works of composers like Mozart and Haydn and started to shake up certain norms of symphonic structure.

11:13By 1812, Beethoven had also already dealt with a myriad of personal obstacles. Early on, his home life was reportedly dismal due to his parents' contentious marriage and his father's alcoholism. According to accounts from Friends, Beethoven's amorous advances as a young man never seemed to come to any sort of satisfying fruition. And then there was the gradual, life-altering loss of his hearing. This auditory decline likely started in 1797 or 98, and increasingly threatened his ability to conduct performances of his works. Given that Beethoven also suffered through the excruciating ringing of tinnitus in his ears, as well as other painful and isolating health problems, doctors often recommended that he spend summers in resort towns with supposedly healing hot springs.

12:17A closer look at Beethoven's correspondence and some supporting travel documentation allowed researchers to deduce his travel itinerary through the Austrian spa region prior to his writing of the immortal beloved letter. The specifics almost sound plucked from an Agatha Christie novel. Traveling from Vienna, Beethoven arrived in Prague on July 1st, 1812. Based on a letter he sent to a friend there and implications in his immortal beloved letter, he very likely met his beloved for a potentially romantic tryst in the city on July 3rd. He possibly likely borrowed a pencil. Then, on July 4th, he departed by post-coach, and after an arduous journey, arrived at 4 a.m.

13:12on July 5th in Teplitz. The following morning, he began writing to his immortal beloved from his temporary lodgings, thinking that she would soon arrive in the town of Carlsbad, where he would send his letters. Using these parameters, a pair of prominent French scholars and a Japanese author separately came to the same conclusion about a new possible candidate. Then, in 1972, an American musicologist furthered those claims through an extensive investigation of the evidence that included a couple more prerequisites. One, the woman must have been in both Prague and Carlsbad at the right times. and two, the woman must have been on great terms with Beethoven just before the relevant spa visits to have elicited such impassioned writing.

14:09Ultimately, this narrowed down the list of immortal beloved candidates and left one plausible name.

14:19Antoni Brantano was an Austrian art collector and music patron. Sources clearly show she was in Prague on July 3rd and had grown close to Beethoven in the preceding months. Antony had initially come to Vienna in 1809 to care for her ailing father, and after he died, she oversaw the auction of his estate. In 1810, the connections of Antony's husband and her husband's half-sister to the, quote, in-crowd of famous artists working in Vienna, led the three to meet Beethoven and befriend him. According to numerous accounts, including Antony's and those close to her, Beethoven became a source of great comfort during periods when Antony was mourning or ill.

15:13Additionally, as several scholars have argued, Antony fulfilled an additional parameter. Later in his life, Beethoven spent ample time with the prominent Giantastio del Rio family. In a recovered diary that many historiographers take to be trustworthy, a young woman in the family, Fanny, recorded a conversation in 1816 in which Beethoven discussed his fraught love life. According to Franny's entry, Beethoven lamented that five years prior he had met someone, quote, a closer union with whom he would have considered as the greatest happiness of his life. But, quote, it was not to be thought of, almost an impossibility, a chimera.

16:07The approximate timing lined up with when Beethoven met Antony, and the impossibility was presumably that, as you probably have noted, she was married. Not only was Antony married, Beethoven considered her husband, the successful merchant Franz Bentano, a dear friend. Franz was apparently grateful for the time Beethoven spent uplifting his wife's spirits with his music, and as records show, at times he even helped Beethoven financially. Many sources also indicate that, after Beethoven's stay in Teplitz, he went on to meet up with the whole Brentano family to vacation with them in the resort towns of Carlsbad and Franzenbad.

17:00As many scholars contend, this brings up critical questions regarding Antony's candidacy as the addressee of the immortal beloved letter. How intimate was Beethoven's relationship with her? If it did veer into some form of a romantic affair, how can that be reconciled with his position as a family friend? Beethoven often wrote of the importance of being virtuous and faithful. So was he being dishonest and duplicitous in his actions? How much salacious stuff was going down in those Austrian hot springs? While some writers have gone so far as to claim that Beethoven was the father of the son that Antony had in March of 1813, there seems to be a lack of substantial evidence to back that up.

17:56Critics of the Antony theory argued that she was a committed wife and mother, and it was highly unlikely that she would have entertained such a risky, secretive affair. Beethoven did ultimately dedicate multiple works to Antony, including what we're currently listening to. 33 Variations on a Waltz by Diabelli, Op. 120, often known now as the Diabelli Variations. But there's also substantial doubt in the scholarly community over whether Beethoven was passionately attracted to Antony in the same way he reportedly was with other women. This brings up another important quandary, however. Momentarily putting aside candidates and related character assumptions and going back to the immortal beloved letter itself, it's worth questioning whether it was, first and foremost, a love letter at all.

19:03To be sure, Beethoven's multi-part missive is full of passionate prose. He longs for his immortal beloved and repeatedly declares his undying love and devotion to her as her, quote, faithful Ludwig. But he also mentions travel issues, postal schedules, his place in the universe, his need to live for himself, and even to some light questioning of God. His shifting tone and focus thus makes it inherently possible to interpret the letter in multiple ways. Complicating matters further, the Immortal Beloved letter itself has been published in varying formats and has been translated into several different English versions.

19:52Tracking the slight but meaning-altering differences makes it tempting to wonder how cogent some of our own cryptic email drafts, unsent text messages, or pained diary entries might seem if repeatedly examined and retranslated over two centuries. Furthermore, as if analyzing a scribbled stream of consciousness drafted on little sleep that was possibly never sent nor received, was not already a subjective enough task, many biographers and musicologists largely drew from different pools of scholarly research. Some of the most significant books and monographs on the subject were either not translated into English or not circulated in English-speaking countries for decades, if at all.

20:47The theory that Antony Brentano was the immortal beloved still appears to be the most widely accepted one in the United States, but that's seemingly not the case in Europe, as we'll soon get to. Dissertations could be written on all the cultural and political factors, as well as the gatekeeping that spawned so many divisive theories about immortal beloved candidates over the years. But at the core of it, what is so fascinating about the letter is not simply what Beethoven was potentially trying to say to his immortal beloved, but what the letter says about Beethoven. Beethoven wrote to his immortal beloved when he was 41 years old, and then struggled through a period of depression and diminished productivity for about five years.

21:45Between his anguished words and forced transposition of his larger life goals, many scholars have argued that it was far more than a love letter. This letter was a last stab at an intimate relationship, as well as something of a tragic realization, a painful renunciation of what he couldn't have, or perhaps what he knew he would never have. Beethoven frequently felt the sting of rejection in his life. He was reportedly rebuffed many times due to his social class, his physical appearance, and or his difficult personality. But whether intentionally or subconsciously, perhaps as a means of self-preservation or instinctual drive to focus on his work, Beethoven also followed certain patterns that seemingly inhibited him from entering a more traditional marriage, a long-lasting affair, or fulfilling sexual relationship at all.

22:53Simply put, Beethoven had a type. He frequently pursued women who were by most accounts beautiful, appreciated music, and in many cases took lessons from him, were often younger, and were almost always unobtainable due to their social standing or marital status. Did these women's positions and committed relationships somehow make them more romantically alluring to Beethoven? Or does that facet reveal another compelling pattern in his life? According to many sources, after Beethoven's parents died by the time he was a young adult, he continually sought to integrate himself into prominent families.

23:41Here again, Beethoven's music, biography, and writing converge. Remember the sonata we heard back in the introduction? The dedicatee was not one of the main proposed immortal beloved candidates, but the daughter of one. In addition to his affectionate bonds with Antony and Franz Brentano, Beethoven was reportedly very fond of their children, particularly young Maximalane, to whom he dedicated two pieces. One was what we have been listening to, his Allegretto in B-flat major for piano trio. He composed this for her in June 1812, when she was 10 years old, just before his summer spa trip. The other was that Piano Sonata No.

24:3130. The sincere dedication that Beethoven wrote to Maximilien by then 19 is fascinating because it conveys a great deal about how he apparently viewed some compositions along with the close relationships in his life. Let's listen to the first two movements again, along with a translation of Beethoven's dedication to Maximaline. A dedication. Now it is not one of those dedications that are misused by a great many. It is the spirit that unites the noble and better people on this earth, and which time can never destroy. That is the spirit of which I speak to you now, and which makes me see you still in your childhood years.

25:23Likewise, your beloved parents, your excellent and gifted mother, your father inspired by truthful, good, and noble qualities, always thinking about the well-being of his children. When I think on the excellent qualities of your parents, I have not the slightest doubt that you will have been and are daily inspired to be a noble imitation of them. Never can the memory of such a noble family fade in me. May you sometimes remember me fondly. My heartfelt wishes. May heaven bless you, your life, and the lives of those around you forever. Affectionately and always your friend, Beethoven. As some writers have suggested, it's possible that dedications like that were veiled ways for Beethoven to express romantic feelings to married women or mothers of dedicatees.

26:19But as others assert, this type of behavior and later-in-life dedication far more likely underscored a deeper longing for a loving and stable family structure, as Beethoven so often sought out substitute families. So, in addition to signaling a crestfallen emotional key change, the immortal beloved letter was perhaps a love letter that actually weighed multiple types of love, from romantic to familial to self-love, and according to some, maybe even rekindled love. Many of Beethoven's behavioral patterns, as well as clues in documents that were revealed more recently, factor into the case for the other most widely believed immortal beloved candidate.

27:15That candidate was from a noble family, was supposedly exceedingly beautiful, and was incredibly musically talented. According to that theory, which has been long backed by certain German and German-speaking scholars, it was not Therese von Brunswick who made the most sense as Beethoven's immortal beloved, but her younger sister Josephine, because deep down she was his only beloved. But more on that next week. This has been part one of the endlessly fascinating story of Beethoven's famous immortal beloved. But stick around after a brief sponsor break to hear a few measures of another music-related mystery.

28:14So do you have those pieces in your closet that you find yourself just wearing again and again? It's like the jeans that you know are going to fit or the shoes that just somehow go with every outfit. I am terrible at getting dressed in the morning transparently. And so I always need classic clothes that just have a permanent place in my wardrobe. And that's exactly what Quince does so well. They do elevated everyday essentials in premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, washable silk. Just classic, timeless, thoughtfully crafted, and made-to-be-worn-again clothes. And their 100 % Mongolian cashmere sweaters start at just$50, which is unbelievable.

29:00It's the softness and quality you expect from a luxury brand, but without the luxury price tag. I absolutely love my items that are quince in my wardrobe. I have a linen shirt dress that's kind of my go-to wear-to-work outfit because it's days where I don't want to wear pants to work and I just want to be comfortable, but I can't really wear sweatpants. So I just have this super chic linen shirt dress that like tricks people into thinking I'm dressed up. Quince also has, spoiler alert, sunglasses that are sort of amazing. My favorite pair of sunglasses are Quince. And everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80 % less than similar brands.

29:39working directly with ethical factories, cutting out middlemen, you're paying for quality and not brand markup. And like I said, in addition to clothes, sunglasses, they also have bedding and bath, kitchen essentials, designed furniture. We have curtains in our house that are from Quince. So find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash noble. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash noble. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

30:28I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

31:14Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

31:26Baroness Therese Malfatti was another candidate who historians more or less ruled out as the enigmatic immortal beloved. Beethoven did supposedly propose to her in 1810, though, and she factors into another mystery. According to many sources, Beethoven's exceedingly well-known Fur Elise Bagatelle, which we are, of course, hearing now, was likely written for her between 1808 and 1810. The piece was only discovered and published 40 years after Beethoven's death. And while multiple Elise candidates have been proposed, one of the main theories about the dedication was that it was initially misread and had actually been written for Therese.

32:17As many scholars note, Beethoven had notoriously sloppy handwriting, which is yet another reason why the mission to identify the intended recipients of some of his works of both romantic music and affectionate prose continues to be so immortally befuddling. This episode was written by Paul Jaffe. Special thanks to Dr. Jane Vial Jaffe and Dr. William Meredith, who were both incredibly helpful resources in the writing of this episode. One final note for this episode, our producers for the show found most of the Beethoven music we got to listen to for this special musical two-parter from MuseOpen.org, a free website and nonprofit that provides access to classical music recordings and sheet music and other educational material.

Read the full transcript

33:15If you're interested in hearing more Beethoven, absolutely go check the site out.

33:28Noble Blood is a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manke. Noble Blood is hosted by me, Dana Schwartz, with additional writing and research by Hannah Johnston, Hannah Zwick, Courtney Sender, Amy Height, and Julia Milani. The show is edited and produced by Jesse Funk, with supervising producer Rima Ilkayali, and executive producers Aaron Menke, Trevor Young, and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

34:10What up, y 'all? This your main man, Memphis Bleak, right here, host of that Rock Solid podcast. And each week, we bringing you exclusive looks inside music, everything happening inside the culture. Some of the best conversations were the biggest names in the game. You had a little bit more pressure to be good. And they didn't care if you was a girl. Like, you wasn't getting no points. If you're not trash, you better be not just good, you better be great. Listen to rock solid on Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.

34:45Guaranteed human.

From the publisher

After Beethoven died, his secretary published an effusively romantic letter the composer had written to someone identified only as his "Immortal Beloved." Beethoven had a type -- namely: noble, and unavailable. But the true identity of the letter's intended recepient has mystified music historians.

Support Noble Blood:

— Bonus episodes, stickers, and scripts on Patreon
— Order Dana's book, 'Anatomy: A Love Story' and its sequel 'Immortality: A Love Story'

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

More from Noble Blood

All 79 episodes
Beethoven's Immortal Beloved, Part 1Noble Blood · 30 min
Listen in VO