Emily Sundberg on How Nobody Is Coming to Save Gen Z

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2:01Hello, OddLots listeners. You are listening to another special episode of the podcast. It was recorded in New York City on July 26th. In this conversation, we talked to Emily Sundberg of the Feed Me newsletter. We are talking about how Gen Z sees the world, how they think about capitalism, how they think about money, how they think about investing, how they think about spending it, and how they think about how nobody is coming to save them. That's right. I don't think it's a secret at this point that Gen Z seems to love stock market investing and things like that, trying to make money. So take a listen.

2:36First question been on my mind the last couple of days. You have a very like young, plugged in, like sort of business, capitalism audience. What percentage of your readers do you think voted for Zoran? A young man, I think he was 19, a Yale student, emailed me this morning and asked if I could put that poll in my newsletter. And I didn't. It felt a little late, but I should have. I'm guessing 65 percent cautiously. Really? Yeah. Can you maybe describe your sort of average reader just for people who might not be aware? Like what population are you plugged into here? So I don't know if any of you use Substack, but they don't give you these analytics.

3:22So all of my data about my readership has been quite anecdotal from just looking at people's profiles in the comment section and seeing who shows up to my parties. But do any of you read it? Like, okay, so some of you, that's some of my audience. I like to say that my readership is everyone from bartenders to billionaires. But I would say like, if you're paying$80 a year for a newsletter, then you're probably making a decent amount of money, or you're at least interested in making money. And I think it's a mostly New York audience, 30 to 45-ish. But if you come to my parties, you'll see who else there is.

4:01But I would say like people interested in making money and somewhat interested in New York City business and culture. So the first time several tries to get you on the podcast, but finally making it happen. And I wanted to talk about like Gen Z and capitalism, because I feel like millennials and maybe Gen X, but millennials in particular, like sort of had this love hate relation, like sort of apologized for wanting money, sort of ambivalent about it. And I get the impression that the younger generation is like much more comfortable with like, yeah, we want to make a ton of money. Yeah. And so I'm like curious.

4:37Yeah. So talk about if that's correct, this perception. I think one thing that's very clear about Gen Z is that they've repeatedly been told nobody is coming to save you. You're going to graduate into a job market that barely exists. And if you get a job, you might not even have a desk or an office to go into. A lot of them were home during COVID and they're also seeing like shootings in schools all the time and they're seeing their capital getting sworn. Like there it's nobody is coming to save them. And it's sort of up to them to make the most of this world while it's still in existence. And you hear this sense of like get the bag while the world is still here for you to make some money out of it.

5:23What was your question? no that was basically it like that's like an overwhelming sentiment that i hear from from these people yeah i think it was like some survey and they asked all the generations like what do you need to have a good life and there's something like 70 000 whatever and then gen z was like 500 000 salary or something like yeah i mean you're even seeing like if you're a creator even at like goldman sachs you're probably making more money as like making day in the life tiktoks than you are from your salary. And like, there's this growing creator economy and your role model might be somebody who's like made millions and millions of dollars a year from humiliating themselves online.

6:00And like, there's all these possibilities and tools from entering the creator economy. Like I think Bloomberg published a story last week that even just the market for creator marketing is like$33 billion now. It's massive. This idea that no one's coming to save you. We've talked about this on an episode before but it does feel like that kind of translates into people making these lottery ticket type bets right so i'll buy into crypto or i'll make a ridiculous options trade or something like that and hope that i just get lucky and save myself yeah i think like something with crypto there's this online sort of sportsmanship and camaraderie around it as well so there's like this fun competition and making the money and it's all very public as well to me like Like you're seeing how much your peers are making and winning and you're almost like seeing how much they're taking home each week, which is stressful.

6:55How much of the nobody is coming to save you mentality is like AI dread, like jobs as we know them might not exist? I think a lot of it. Yeah. Say more. I mean, back to this idea that say you graduated from college last week on a hundred degree day and you don't have a job lined up yet. or maybe you do have a job lined up and you're entering a very flat company where there's not like a clear ladder for you to climb. And not only is your timeline there, it probably feels somewhat flat, but the end is like whether you're a copywriter or if you're working in finance, there's like the end of it might be a replacement with mass layoffs and AI coming in to take that job.

7:38I'm gonna ask a completely self-interested question, But does Gen Z truly hate the millennial generation? Is that a real thing? I'm not Gen Z. So like, I'm not like the speaker of the generation. I'm, I guess maybe I'm 30. So yeah, that's like Cuspy, right? But I never identified as Gen Z. I'm definitely identify more with millennials. I don't think they truly hate millennials. I don't think that's the case. I think that there's like a lot of parts about, there's like this tweeness to millennials that is like cringey, but. That's fair. I agree. Yeah. I'm really actually, I've actually been thinking about this phenomenon of like really flat companies for a while.

8:20So I thought it was like really interesting that you said that because it really feels like, and we actually did an episode recently with the economist Ricardo Hausman where he sort of talked about like companies, their structure is just they have a lot of different people who are like the talent. But it doesn't feel like they're just sort of normal jobs at a lot of companies for people who are just sort of normal to get. Yeah, I worked at Meta for a few years and there were like these Roman numerals next to your position. And you knew how much everybody at the company was making if they were like a three or a five.

8:50And when you moved from a four to a five, it was like$20 ,000 more a year. Like not life changing. Like maybe you're taking an extra few Ubers like a year or something like that. And it felt very flat. And it's also hard to look at somebody who you're working with who's two levels higher than you and necessarily aspire to that. Like you're not going to stay an extra two hours at night. It's not inspiring. So just going back to Mamdani. So one of the theories about why he's kind of resonating with the younger crowd nowadays is this idea that, OK, they don't really have a stake in capitalism necessarily.

9:26Like they don't feel like they're being rewarded by the capitalist system. And so they're voting for change. Is that something you kind of observe in your day to day interactions? Well, I work alone, so I'm not, like, observing many interactions from people. But, like, online, I think the people who gravitated towards him the strongest felt more of religion, like, hope. Like, it was, like, this idea of hope and something different. And it was, like, a salve after such a rough beginning of the year with, like, Trump coming into the White House. But yeah, I don't, I think it was, it felt more emotional and almost religious to me than like, at least from like what I've been observing and why people attach themselves to that message so strongly.

10:12What about, we were talking about, okay, you have this desire to get the bag, make a bunch of money and like a lottery ticket, metaphorically, with crypto or whatever. How does this mentality, how would you say it changes consumption patterns and like the impulse to just like save or like how does it affect what people buy? That's a good question. I was talking to a friend the other day who said that she was at her younger sister's graduation on the West Coast, and all of the young women were wearing Gucci sandals, like all of them at this school. It was in the Bay Area. And she's 10 years older than her sister.

10:47And she was like, this is not something that I witnessed. And it's not like everyone there is loaded to afford this specific sandal. And I know that a lot of you might've read that story in New York Magazine a few weeks ago about the West Village and this sort of homogenous looking young person in New York City. And I'm realizing that that's kind of a phenomenon across the whole country. It's like everyone is wearing the same, buying the same, like fitting into this and millennials back to that. It's like everybody wanted to do their own thing and listen to their own music and have their own style and have their own Tumblr, whatever.

11:23Like it was annoying. It was annoying but it it created like diversity of opinions and the ability to have like small shows that sold out and stuff and small brands that existed and small stores that existed but and I haven't fully baked out the thought but I started realizing it like a week ago like the West Village thing has quickly turned into like if you live in the in a flyover state or you live in the West Village you might be wearing the same exact outfit and be just as obsessed with like the matcha thing whatever. So that's like definitely part of the consumption conversation. It's like you're checking off boxes of like small things that you're buying, whether it's at Starbucks or Gucci to like kind of form this perfect life of what it means to be a 25 year old.

12:09And like, okay, now I'm happy. I figured that out. Something else that I've been reading a lot about, I have some young readers and I do a lot of surveys in my newsletter, which is awesome that my readers are even willing to spend like 15 minutes on that because I wouldn't. There's a real sentiment of like the world is burning. So why shouldn't we enjoy the things that we can? And I don't know what the savings accounts of these people look like or the credit card bills look like. But I know that a lot of these people are spending money that they do not have because I understand that the jobs that usually facilitate that are a lot.

12:42They're paying a lot more than what these young people are making. And I imagine there's a sense that I'm never going to make enough to buy a house or something like that. And then there's like the whole buy now, pay later conversation, which you can buy now, pay later. You're seamless. Like that's crazy. Yeah. So I think it's like you make the money, you spend the money. And they're probably not even thinking about what about my kids? Because that's the dating apps don't even work. So I don't know where the kids come in. Now this is bleak. Yeah, there's bleak. Actually, no, but this is, I'm enjoying this.

13:11So I lived for many years of my life in Illinois. My dad was a physics professor at a very small college. And it always strikes me that he was totally fine moving to a fairly small, large town in Illinois. When you said flyover states, is there this aspiration that you have to get to one of the big cities, that you have to get to New York or L.A. or San Francisco? I think as much as, I don't think that's a new thing. I think it's like, we'll get to the West Village. Like, I don't think that every, but there's like a new grind to do that. I think that there's just as many young people in New York living with four roommates in a one bedroom with like weird Home Depot walls everywhere as there were when I was young.

13:57Where they're working, I mean, the three of us are all like in the creator economy. I'm sure that there's a whole micro group of young people doing the same, trying to do the same thing. We are in the creator economy. Just on the, Hey, there's a mic in front of you every day. What else do we do? We're creating. Yeah. Did I disagree? No. Okay. We're creators. Just on the West village girl thing and the idea of homogeneity among fashion and consumerism. What do you think is driving that? Is that like a lack of community or I don't know. Like that was one of the most shocking parts of the story to me.

14:39Like I feel so silly. If there was one person in this room with the same exact outfit as me, I'd be like, wait a second. What happened? Like I thought I was putting something together, two white pieces of clothing. But it is, it's really weird. It's like, I don't know if you've ever been in one of those workout classes, but it's like they all have this set. It's, I'm not sure what it is. I have to do some research because it's an extreme comfort with having the, an identical life. And I think part of it is probably like the Amazon storefront and they're all following the same influencer who's promoting the same product and everybody buys it immediately.

15:18There's this piece of clothing, I guess it was a dress, from Tori Birch a few weeks ago and I posted it because I saw like five people at different weddings on the same weekend wearing it. And it's a very distinct, like hot pink dress with mirrors all over it. And I said, this is going to be the wedding guest dress of the summer. Like this is going to be everywhere. And it sold out the next day. Like people were not like, then I'm not going to buy it. Everyone bought it. Like everybody clicked the link and then bought it. Like there's this, I think when you're all following the same people and the same brands and having the same excitement about the time people follow what time, like, clothing drops come out at these brands, too, like, what time the sites get updated, there's a lot more likelihood that you're all going to buy the same thing.

16:06Yeah, that's really weird. Like, you'd think, okay, people want to be distinct, but I remember my wife and I went out to a comedy show a couple months ago, and everybody was dressed the same, and both of us were, like, sort of flabbergasted. What was the same? It was just, like, sort of black, like a sort of black shirt. I mean, you know, it's New York, so people have always worn all black, but it was really weird. There was no color in anyone's clothes in the entire audience that night. It was very strange. How much do those Gucci sandals cost? $800? I don't know. Oh, man, that's crazy. But a lot of money for a pair of shoes and then for everyone to feel comfort.

16:44I mean, we see it all the time with bags and stuff, but it is sort of funny when it's an entire wardrobe. Can you talk about the Birkin? What part do you want to talk about? Just talk about it. Do people still buy Birkins? Like as an investment? I don't know. Bethany Frankel said she's made like a ton of money on flipping her Birkins. Oh my God. That's crazy. Yeah, she's a flipper. She's bought some new houses too. One of the things that I always like reading in your newsletter is like you're always talking about new brands that are launching, new restaurants, et cetera. There's been, we talk about volatility in the market, all this uncertainty due to trade and whatever else.

17:19Do you feel any slowdown at all in sort of new entrepreneurial endeavors on account of all this uncertainty that's going on? Or is it just like people just powering through it? A slowdown of new economic endeavors, like from young people? Yeah, or just like new business launches. Has that slowed down at all in your view with all the economic question marks? No, I think people are doing it differently, though. I don't think people are as excited to take on like venture capital and they're more likely to like bootstrap or attach themselves to a friend and like try something and have it fail and sort of quietly brush it aside and be like, I didn't start that weird vodka company that it's like, I don't do that anymore.

18:00You know, where I think like I can speak to the girl boss very well, like the girl boss of my of when I was like coming up in my 20s was like taking these huge checks from whatever forerunner general catalyst or whatever. I never really thought about the implications. And then I think young people have sort of learned what that means at the end, which means people are going to want some return. And often they don't get it. So I know you were talking in your newsletter, I think it was just this week, about another article in New York Mag, which was about the Hamptons and the sort of like existential stress, I guess, that rich people in the Hamptons feel about their lifestyle and they feel competitive with one another.

18:39And I think you said that people were kind of like batting that away and saying that's not so much of a thing. But then on the other hand, you also wrote about weddings and how much everyone is spending on weddings nowadays, how expensive it is to be a guest. I guess my question is, like, what pockets of the culture, whether it's New York or beyond, are the most consumerist or wealth obsessed for you right now? Women. the thing is it's all happening all the cameras are always on so like let's take weddings for example Hamptons are a different story it's like a different economy there's so many different facets going on there with the weddings it's like it used to be about the bride and now it's about every individual at the wedding and the photo that they're getting and where the photo is going to end up after.

19:29I'm speaking from like the point of view of a New York woman who's like, I don't know if this is the case for everyone, but something else that I identified this morning with my husband that I think is that I think that the definition of friend who qualifies for wedding is sort of like expanding as well. So there's this weird gift culture going on where if I invite you, then I have to invite you. And I'm expecting that you're going to invite me to yours. and I also think that there's something happening with like DMs and group texts where people are getting closer faster and like that also affects the wedding guests lists.

20:04Yeah. This resonates. Someone in one, I think someone in a group chat recently announced they're getting married and I was like, what the heck? Why didn't I get an invite? We're in a group chat together. So I could see like that stress. Totally. I was talking to somebody before my wedding, which was two months ago, about my wedding and they were like, so am I invited? And I was like, no, I'm just telling you something about my life right now. But there's also an etiquette epidemic. Wait, what does that mean? What does that mean, an etiquette epidemic? Like people not holding the door for you. Oh, yeah.

20:35People posting photos of your wedding before you do. Like, things like that. I think we're out of time. That was so good. That was really, I love your newsletter. I love finally getting a chance to chat. And I think at some point we should do another longer episode just on, like, the group chat economy. There are so many facets. Thank you so much, Emily. Thank you.

21:08This has been another episode of the All Thoughts Podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway. And I'm Jill Weisenthal. You can follow me at The Stalwart. Follow our producers, Carmen Rodriguez at CarmenArmin, Dash O 'Bennett at Dashbot, and Kale Brooks at Kale Brooks. For more OddLots content, go to Bloomberg.com slash OddLots, where we have a daily newsletter and all of our episodes. And you can chat about these topics 24-7 in our Discord, discord.gg slash OddLots. And if you enjoy OddLots, if you like it when we do these live recordings, then please leave us a positive review on your favorite podcast platform.

21:43Thanks for listening.

21:56Thank you.

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